1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: and this is Stuff you should Know, the Very Tale 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: King Edition. 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: I guess you're not the one and only so that's 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: I could come up with. I love stories of allegedly 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: mad kings. I've spoken before about the Madness of King George. 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: A great film, sure, and I'm surprised noone's done a 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: movie about this character. 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: I am too, as a matter of fact, because even 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: if he's not that well known, and he's pretty well known, 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: his castle is certainly extraordinarily well known. 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: Sure. 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: Which one, well, yeah, he made three castles, as we'll see, 15 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: But the one that really takes the cake is Nushevenstein, 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: which means new swan Stone. 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Do you want to know the German pronunciation. 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: I just gave it. 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: Neus Schwanstein. 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: That's what I said, Oh, okay, great, is it really? 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? For Ei it's always a second letter in germanis, 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 2: and then nei is it's not new It's. 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: NOI gotcha, So uh yeah, I'll just call it new 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: Swanstone Castle then from now on, Yes, that's what it means, right, 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: all right, let me try my hand at this. Okay, 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: Ludwig the Second and we're saying the W like a V. 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: Correct Uh yeah, yeah, let's do it. 28 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: Okay, Ludwig the Second, known as the fairy Tale King 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: in German, fairy tale King is dear mark and kunig. 30 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, you just got to work on your umlauts. 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: I thought i'd nailed it, so okay, what is that one? Then? 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: I think that would be uh merchenkinnig. 33 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, at any rate, I love these words, I 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: just can't pronounce them at all. 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm going on German. I learned in nineteen eighty 36 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: eight and eighty nine, and well he's still about ninety 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: one two. I don't know if I do or not. 38 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: So as we'll see. Even if you haven't heard of 39 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: Ludwig or Ludwig, he is a really appealing character in history. 40 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: He was a real real life character, but he was 41 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: I think he kind of taps into this universal desire 42 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: that everybody has every once in a while. Some people 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: have more than others, but we all like face times 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: and circumstances and consequences that make us just want to 45 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: turn away from the world, turn inward into like a 46 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: fantasy world of our own making where we can be happy, 47 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: and most of us don't go actually do that. Ludwig 48 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: the Second did just that because he had the op 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: opportunity and he had the means to do it. And 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: I think in that sense he's appealing in a lot 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: of ways. Plus he's a deeply tragic romantic figure as well. 52 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, as they say, it's good to be the king, right, sure, sure, 53 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: in his case for a little while at least, well, 54 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 2: actually for a long while. 55 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: He had a nice run, he did twenty something years. 56 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: But let's set up the stage of kind of what 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: was going on when he came about in southeastern Germany 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: what was known as Bavaria, and they still call that 59 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: area Bavaria like that, but back then it was just Bavaria. 60 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: It had its own you know, it was independent, and 61 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: it had its own taxes and it had its own constitution. 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: But it was surrounded by just a lot of upheaval 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: in Europe at the time. And when he was born 64 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: to Crown Prince Ludwig the Second, he's born in eighteen 65 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: forty five. I'm sorry that was his name. He was 66 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: born to King Maximilian the Second and Marie of Prussia 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: had a brother named Otto who suffered from mental illness 68 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: looked like probably schizophrenia, and his aunt, Princess Alexandra, also 69 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: suffered from some sort of mental illness because she believed 70 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: one of the things. She believed that she had swallowed 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 2: a piano made of glass when she was a kid, 72 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: and she was protecting it and if she moved the 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: wrong way, it could shatter. And the reason we bring 74 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: those two cases up is because Ludovig's own mental capabilities 75 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: would be questioned later in life. And so you obviously 76 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: look to the family a lot of times and say, hey, 77 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: he also had this in his bloodline. 78 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I had an uncle who thought he was Saint Jerome. Right, 79 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: So Ludovig was born into like get Like you said, 80 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: this really strange time or time of turmoil geopolitically, and 81 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: like you said, Bavaria was an independent state. It was 82 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: a kingdom, and it was one of the last, one 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: of the last kingdoms. Like in the area, things were 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: moving more towards more of a nation state, more of 85 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: less monarchy, more constitution kind of thing, right, And Germany 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: was very much on the brink of basically being brought 87 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: together into the modern Germany that we think of it now. 88 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: This happened when Ludwig was I think eighteen or nineteen 89 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: or twenty years old. 90 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 2: Basically I think he rose to the throne at eighteen. Okay, 91 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: one thing we should set up though, just you know, 92 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 2: as far as his his palace that he would later 93 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: go on to build that he's famous for, he grew 94 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: up in these kinds of palaces. Obviously is royalty in Bavaria. 95 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: At the time, the place where he was mainly raised 96 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: was called hohen Schwangau Castle, even though he was born 97 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: in Nimfenburg Palace. But both of these places, if you're 98 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: looking at you know, quality castles, they were both pretty amazing. 99 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 100 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: Growing up in these places, little Ludwig was like, you know, 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: this established his esthetic of what he thought was amazing 102 00:05:58,839 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: and beautiful. 103 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there was a quote from his mom that 104 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: said that as a child, he enjoyed dressing up, took 105 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: pleasure in play acting, loved pictures, and liked making presents 106 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: of his property, money and other possessions. 107 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 2: Does that mean like giving it away? 108 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, like here, I want you to have this. 109 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: That's a good kid, right, not exactly like king type behavior. 110 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: And as we'll see, he basically set the stage for 111 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: himself or set the tempo for himself from a very 112 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: early age, it turns out. So I think, like you said, 113 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: he was eighteen when his father died and he ascended 114 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: to the throne. He became king of Bavaria in eighteen 115 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: sixty four, and he felt totally unprepared for it. 116 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was not excited about it, like a lot 117 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: of you know, kind of boy kings were. He had 118 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: never he wasn't very well schooled, seems very sheltered, didn't 119 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: travel abroad, really never wanted anything to do with you know, 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: kinging or anything like that kind of throughout his life, 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: it seems like. And he was a total pacifist at 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: a time where there was a lot of warring going 123 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 2: on that it corrupts people's morals, makes them unable to 124 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: entertain grand noble ideals, dulls them for spiritual enjoyment. So 125 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: he was a pacifist. 126 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. He was also very much opposed to hunting, and 127 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: he loved nature, right, I love this guy. So he 128 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: was apprehensive. He did have a really good education, he 129 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: just felt like he didn't have enough of it to 130 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: qualify as a ruler of a kingdom. But that's the 131 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: way the cookie crumbles sometimes. Sorry, king, But when he 132 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 1: came to power within just a couple of years, despite 133 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: his pacifist leanings, Bavaria was forced into two different wars, 134 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: and as a result of that, the geopolitical map changed dramatically. 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, they were allied with Australia because of 136 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: royal bloodlines. 137 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: He said, Australia. 138 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: Really, yeah, all right. 139 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: So remove the l and there's a couple I think 140 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: another vowlers so that he's. 141 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: To another A clearly meant austra They were allied with Austria. 142 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: Who knows what he thought about Australia. No one ever asked, 143 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: as far as I know. And so when Prussia came 144 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: knocking on the door for the Seven Weeks War, that 145 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: he was sort of forced to fight with Austria. And 146 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: then they got their butts went pretty good. And then 147 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: Bavaria was part of, or at least under the thumb 148 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: of Prussia to the north. And then when the Franco 149 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: Prussian War started, then they had to fight with Prussia. 150 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then after the Franco Prussian War, the Prussians 151 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: came out on top and at that point, they're like, 152 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: all right, you know what, We're just gonna take over 153 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: all of Germany, and they established the first Reich, the 154 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: German Empire, that collected all these separate little kingdoms, including Bavaria, 155 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: and put them under the rule of Prussia. But rather 156 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: than being Prussia, the whole group, the whole collection that 157 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: was now combined was Germany as we recognize it today, 158 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: although a little more because there's a bunch of Poland 159 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: that was also of Prussia that would be included in 160 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: that map of Germany. But that was an enormous, huge change, 161 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: and for Ludwig the Second personally, it meant that he 162 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: was he had no power any longer. He was a 163 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: ceremonial figurehead, and geopolitically speaking, he really was not very 164 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: significant at all. 165 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I imagine, I mean, from everything I know about 166 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: poor little Ludwig, this probably wasn't the worst thing in 167 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: the world, because all of a sudden he was forced 168 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: into a figurehead sort of role, right, And I get 169 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: the idea that that was probably ideal for him, Like 170 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: he didn't he didn't want to govern. It seems like 171 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: he didn't mind doing the day to day bureaucracy. Of 172 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: the job, yes, and like you know, signing the things 173 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 2: he needed to sign and allocating the things he needed 174 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: to allocate. But he was not interested in being king, 175 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,319 Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden sort of under this 176 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 2: new I mean sort of protection in a way as 177 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: being part of the German Empire and only having figurehead duties, 178 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 2: he was free to be a fanciful boy king. 179 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and tadd a little nuance. He was totally fine 180 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: with being king, but he wanted to be like an 181 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: absolute monarch, like God's divine representative on earth, like the 182 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: kings of the centuries before were considered. But that wasn't 183 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: happening even if Prussia wasn't running the show, because by 184 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: that time, Bavaria had become a constitutional monarchy, so even 185 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: before the German Empire was founded, he wasn't nearly as 186 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: powerful a king as he would have liked to have been. 187 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: So yeah, that, combined with his pacifism, combined with his 188 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: proneus to fantasy, he was like, yes, this is my chance. 189 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: I'll see y'all later. I'm going to go over here 190 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: into this little fantasy world and it's going to be awesome. Yeah. 191 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: He got to basically pretend that he was the king 192 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: that he wasn't. Yes, yeah, well put and he was 193 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: a Romanticist. He was very much into Romanticism. It was 194 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: that's something that had already come and gone. But just 195 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 2: like so many teenagers are obsessed with the generations before them, 196 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: he loved the literature and the art of the movement. Obviously, 197 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: Romanticism was all about emotion and art and vast imagination 198 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: and history, and so all of this sort of wrapped 199 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: up in this idea that he was like, all right, well, 200 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to pretend like I'm Louis the fourteenth and 201 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: basically sit around all day and fantasize. 202 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: Right, And then also, really importantly, one part of Romanticism, 203 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: the architectural part of is called historicism. Yeah, and it's 204 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: basically a nostalgic return to past architectural styles, but rather 205 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: than going for historical accuracy, you go for idealization or improvement. 206 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: So it ends up being like this fantasy version of 207 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: what used to be yeah, more gilded things exactly. That 208 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: totally jibed with how Ludwig liked to live and think. 209 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: Should we take a break, Yeah, Well, this one's been 210 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: densely packed so far. 211 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of geopolitics, a lot of architecture, 212 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: historic movements, what else. 213 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about it. Okay, pronunciation, Yeah, don't forget that, 214 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: all right, we'll be right back, all right. So welcome 215 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: to ACQ. This is where we talk about the private 216 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: life of Ludwig. And I love how Livia put it 217 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: in this section title. 218 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: No that was me, Oh that was you. Yeah, Oh 219 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: that sounded. 220 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: A little bit like Livia. But now I see Josh 221 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 2: all over. It was Ludwig gay. Yes, yes he was, 222 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: And that's the deal. Ludwig was a gay man, a 223 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 2: gay king. He was sort of arranged to be marriage 224 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: married to his twenty two year old cousin, Elsa, which 225 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: was a who was a duchess in not Australia but 226 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: in Austria, and not surprisingly, he did not go through 227 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: with that wedding. He blamed it on the father in 228 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: law and that was just a deal. He bested up 229 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: with Elsa's sister, Empress Elizabeth, and they were peas in 230 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: a pod. 231 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. They both had a disdain for war and violence. 232 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: They both loved classical literature. They both liked their solitude, 233 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: and so much so that Ludwig, when he had his 234 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: birthday parties. Most of the people who were ever invited 235 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: were the people who already worked for him, like his 236 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: attendants and servants. They would dress up and come to 237 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: the parties as guests. That's how how much of a 238 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: loaner he was, and he liked it that way. And 239 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: he was also not exactly quiet about his sexual orientation, 240 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: which is really something at the time. I mean, we're 241 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: talking about the late nineteenth century in Bavaria. This is 242 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: the king and he's he's just he's not exactly making 243 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: it a huge secret. And in fact, while he was alive, 244 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: it was like a very open secret that Ludwig enjoyed 245 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: the company of men, as they were to put it 246 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: back then. 247 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, they When you were listing out the shared loves 248 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: that he and Empress Elizabeth had, you left one out 249 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: though they both loved Shawn Cassidy. 250 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: Seawan Cassidy. What was his one hit? He just head 251 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: the one, right. 252 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I remember though we 253 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 2: were all in love with them. 254 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had that great feathered hair, me. 255 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 2: Ludwig, the whole, all of us. Sure, So, like you said, 256 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 2: his relationships were no, it was sort of like one 257 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: of those open secrets when he had fixers. You know, 258 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: he was the king, so when something happened, people would 259 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: you know, would clean up after him. I think there 260 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: were men in the stables that he was very fond 261 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: of and perhaps had you know, physical relationships with one 262 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: man named Richard Hornig, who would eventually be his private secretary. 263 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: And there was also a groom named Karl hessel Schwert 264 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: who was sort of his traveling valet and apparently wingman 265 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: because would help him find sexual partners. But anytime something 266 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: like this would happen and it got to you know, 267 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: sort of, the rumors became widespread, like people would just 268 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: I was about to say, people would disappear. They wouldn't 269 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: like have them snuffed out or anything, but people be 270 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: relocated with other jobs and stuff like that. 271 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. And we know all this because he wrote a 272 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: lot about this in his diary entries, and from what 273 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: I gleaned from it, he would basically pull out all 274 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: the stops for his dates, like there'd be champagne and 275 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: candles and gifts and stuff like that. 276 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: Model service. 277 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, basically you gotta do it. Yeah. But also in 278 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: his diary, very sadly, he was a devout very pious Catholic, 279 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: so he had a lot of inner turmoil, but that 280 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: he was conflicted between his religious beliefs and his sexual orientation, 281 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: and so in that sense, that's like just one leg 282 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: of the stool that make him a tragic figure. 283 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. One thing that we aren't as clear about 284 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: as far as relationship goes is his relationship to composer 285 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: Richard Wagner. He was a big, big fan of Wagner 286 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: since he was a little kid, and once he became 287 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: king and had means, he found Wagner sort of on 288 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: hard times financially and was able to basically say like, hey, 289 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: I love your music. You're not doing too well, so 290 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 2: why don't you let me financially support you. Yeah, and 291 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: you'll kind of just be like my private entertainer. I mean, 292 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: you can still go on to make your great compositions, 293 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: but you can also do these private operas and private 294 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: concerts here in the court. And it was a mutually 295 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: beneficial relationship for both of them. 296 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was considered Ludwig was considered one of the 297 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: great patrons of the arts of the nineteenth century, and 298 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: he actually made Munich, which was the capital of Bavaria 299 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: essentially the music capital of Europe during the time. Yeah, 300 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: and to give you an idea of what people who 301 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: were into Romanticism, what they talked like in their letters 302 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: back then. Yeah, there's a really great quote about Wagner 303 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: that he wrote to I think his mistress who would 304 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: eventually become his wife, Kozima. He said, he is unfortunately 305 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: so beautiful and wise, soulful and lordly that I fear 306 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: his life must fade away like a divine dream in 307 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: this base world. 308 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: That's great. 309 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is what he's writing to his wife 310 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: about this new patron he has. And Wagner was into women. 311 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: He had a long standing affair with the woman, like 312 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: I said, who would become his wife. But if you 313 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: read some of their letters, and even taking into account 314 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: that people expressed friendship much differently than they do today. Yeah, 315 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: between men, especially even taking that into account, like the 316 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: flowery language they would use and just the desperation they 317 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: would have at being a part. It's still not one 318 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: hundred percent clear what all went down between Wagner and 319 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: Ludwig when it was just the two of them hanging 320 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: out in a castle. 321 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, there was one quote that Wagner wrote, 322 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: I think to Ludwig, right after they had been you know, 323 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 2: in each other's company, he wrote this, how can I 324 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: find words to describe you the magic of this hour? 325 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: I am in your angelic arms. We are near to 326 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: one another. So you know that reads is you know, 327 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: possibly something happening there. And I'm certainly no expert, but 328 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: was it this year or Olivia that found the LGTBQ. 329 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: History writer Olivia found that guy? 330 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a guy named Richard Norton wrote that their 331 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: relationship was almost certainly physical, though not necessarily genital. So 332 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like if that's correct, or if 333 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 2: that you know, he's he's you know, it's a supposition. 334 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: But if that's correct, then it may be the case 335 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: of a young wealthy patron who is around his idol 336 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: and the idol maybe you know, giving the patrons just 337 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: some extra time and affection to stay in the in 338 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: the good graces and to stay funded. Maybe like like 339 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: who knows what happened behind closed doors, But that's at 340 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 2: least Richard Horton's take. 341 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And ultimately it doesn't matter what happened. I think 342 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: the point is is that Ludwig was a gay icon 343 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: before there were such things as gay icons, and he 344 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: still is today. 345 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: It's just pallace intrigue basically. 346 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So from the moment Wagner showed up or 347 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: was invited to court through Ludwig's death, he was supported 348 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: by Ludwig financially. And there's it's pretty widely agreed that 349 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: had Ludvig not supported Wagner, he probably would not have 350 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: been able to create a lot of the compositions that 351 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: he came up with. 352 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 353 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: Sure, so in that sense, Ludwig the Second gave the 354 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: world a lot of Wagner's later work. And if you're 355 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: familiar with Wagner in his Germanic nationalism, he was also 356 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: an anti Semite. And one of the cool things about 357 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: Ludwig is he objected to his friend's anti semitism. He 358 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: didn't just turn a blind eye to it. 359 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: Oh nice. 360 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a great guy. The more I find 361 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: out about him more I just love him totally. 362 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 2: So the other thing that he was really into, like 363 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: we kind of mentioned early, was architecture, especially Romanticist stuff 364 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: sort of Byzantine influences and Roman kind of stuff Byzantine 365 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: as Roman, I guess, but he loved to build things. 366 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: He loved to take on these big projects, even though 367 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: he did not hunt and was against it. He built 368 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 2: a lavish hunting retreat. He built these three palaces that 369 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, and the UNESCO World Heritage Sites had 370 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: this to say of the palaces. The monarch created artificial 371 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 2: alternative worlds in which he could immerse himself in far 372 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: distant places and past eras. Their main function was to 373 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: simulate literary and ideal fantasy worlds as realistically as possible, 374 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 2: using architecture, art and technology in order to produce an 375 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 2: all encompassing experience, a perfect illusion. 376 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that says it all. I left it out of 377 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: this quote, but it also was on to say he 378 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: was also a really big fan of Australia. Right, So 379 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: they said something, UNESCO said something. They used the word technology, 380 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: and that was part of that historicism, that you took 381 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: something that you loved about the past, but you improved it, 382 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: you made it better. And part of that was using 383 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: modern technology. And Ludwig was an eager, enthusiastic early adopter 384 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: of new technology, in particular electricity, and he was using 385 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: this stuff in the eighteen seventies. It's worth pointing out 386 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: Edison did not invent the light bulb, but he did 387 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: produce the first best incandescent light bulb. That wasn't until 388 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty. Ludwig was already using light bulbs and electricity 389 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: in the decade before that. 390 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and using them as every lovely outdoor cafe does 391 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: with like string lights. He had a artificial cave, and 392 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: this is at Linderhorf Castle. He had an artificial cave 393 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: in a lake which had these color lights everywhere. He 394 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: eventually would build a recreation of Versailles on a lake island. 395 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: I believe it's called Oh Jesus, this is a tough one. 396 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: Herron Shimissy Palace. But that was What do you think 397 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: it is? 398 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that sounds like a town along 399 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: the Mississippi. It didn't sound German at all. 400 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't look German. I don't think it's I 401 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 2: don't think it is German. 402 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: I think it is. 403 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: Herron Harron him him hem c. How would you say it? 404 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: I think I liked what you just said. I'm just 405 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: gonna stick of that. I'm not attempting it. I'm just 406 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: making fun. 407 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: That's all, okay, nice work. 408 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: Thanks. 409 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: That was never finished but they did finish some sections. 410 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: But his most famous, the one that we're going to 411 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: kind of focus on is uh, you want to try 412 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: it again, tough guy? 413 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: Uh, A new Swanstone. 414 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 2: Neuschwanstein Castle, which I mean, you gotta look this thing up. 415 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: It's it's unbelievable. 416 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: I say, we take a break and then come back 417 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 1: and talk about Neusch von. 418 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: Stein stein man Stein. No, it is done. 419 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: You're right, you know you're just confusing me. We'll be 420 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: right back, okay, everybody. So we talked about a couple 421 00:24:53,600 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: of other castles, but stein Uh is the one that 422 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: is most associated with Ludwig the second the first one, 423 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: Linderhoff is considered this technological amusement park. The other one 424 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: that you said was like a recreation of Versailles news 425 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: Swanstein was the most magical looking recreation of what's called 426 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: Romanesque architecture that you would just think of essentially as 427 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: like it was just like Sleeping Beauty's Castle at disney 428 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: World in Disneyland, so much so that he must have 429 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: been inspired by that. 430 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 2: Are we putting a pin in that or talking about that? 431 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: We can talk about it. 432 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, supposedly Walt Disney visited that castle with 433 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: his wife in the nineteen fifties. And if you look 434 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: at the main castle there in Disney World, and I 435 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 2: guess Disneyland has one too, right, I've never been there. Yeah, 436 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: it looks a heck of a lot like Neus Schwanstein. 437 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it is one hundred percent certain 438 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: that he modeled it after that. And if you see it, 439 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: like even if it wasn't a percent, and you'd be like, yeah, 440 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: he totally modeled it after that. It looks like a 441 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: fairy tale castle. If you are not driving right now 442 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: and you're just sitting around, you have your phone or 443 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: your computer a full set of stipedias or at least 444 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: the ends. Look up a picture of Noise fund Stein. 445 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: It is amazing, breath taking. It's the definition of the 446 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: word breathtaking. 447 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is gorgeous. It sits on a top of 448 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: a mountain and like these are the mountains that have those, 449 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: you know, it looks like the castle and frozen like. 450 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: It sits on a tiny little peak, not for defense, 451 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 2: but he loved the view there. If you look out 452 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: from the castle the beautiful mountain ranges, you have the 453 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: very small lake, but the shwan Sea is right there. 454 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: You can actually see the two castles. From the video 455 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 2: I saw online was a guy standing on the deck 456 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 2: or not the decking, but whatever you would call the 457 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: outdoor areas the dance floor, hey, come out to the deck, 458 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: or a patio, the hard escape. It's got to be 459 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: something more grand than those words for what those were. 460 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: But anyway, what we would call like the outdoor patio 461 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: of Hohenschwangal and right there in the background you can 462 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 2: see Neus Swanstein. They're only about a mile from each other. 463 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: I'm guessing is the crow flies. But it's just a 464 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 2: gorgeous scene. 465 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. I mean whether it's summer, fall, 466 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: winter in particular which with a snow on it, it's magical. 467 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: It's gorgeous. And like we said, Ludwig was an early 468 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: adopter of technology. One of the things that he used, 469 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: or his construction people had to use, was steam powered cranes. Yeah, 470 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: because this was not an easy place to build and 471 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: it was a pretty massive castle made of very heavy 472 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: brick and stone. And in addition to that he had 473 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: things like an elevator. In fact, he had an elevator table. 474 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: Remember we said that he enjoyed his solitude. Yes, in particular, 475 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: he appreciated dining alone. He didn't even want servants around 476 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: serving him. So what he would do is sit at 477 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: the table in his dining room and the table would 478 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: lower down, I think three stories to the kitchen. The 479 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: table would be set, all the food would be put 480 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: on it, and that would be raised back up for 481 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: him to dine. That's how remote he wanted to be 482 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: from people when he didn't want to be around people. 483 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 2: So I don't call it quite follow that. 484 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: Actually, imagine it's like a dumb waiter, but the whole 485 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: table is the dumb waiter. 486 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he would be sitting at it when it 487 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: was doing this. 488 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: Well, No, so he would stay seated up in the 489 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: dining room and the table would go and the table 490 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: would come back up, all set and resplend it with 491 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: a feast. 492 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 2: And then that makes sense. I thought he wrote it down, 493 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: they set the table with the food, and then he 494 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 2: wrote it back, and I was like, that doesn't. I mean, 495 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: that's a lot of fun, but that doesn't prevent them 496 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: from seeing anybody. No, exactly dinner time. So the throne 497 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: room was is pretty impressive. You can you know, see 498 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: pictures and videos of all this stuff, like full tours 499 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: online that was where the Byzantine influence really came in. 500 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: It has a thirteen foot tall chandelier, never had a 501 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: throne in it. But you know, this stuff is as 502 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: over the top as it gets when you look at 503 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: pictures and videos. It's really I mean, it's not my style, obviously, 504 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: and I've never like castles are kind of fun. I've 505 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 2: toured a couple. None of it aesthetically is like ooh, 506 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: that's beautiful to me. But the ornate qualities of it 507 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 2: I can appreciate. 508 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And I think photos don't do it 509 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: justice either, especially like interior photos of these rooms. They 510 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: all just seem garish and gaudy, and they are basically 511 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: by definition. But I'm sure it's much more impressive in 512 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: person than it is looking at had a photo. You know, 513 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: we should go, all right, I would totally love to go. 514 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: I've been wanting to go to Germany for a while. 515 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean we're talking about maybe trying 516 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: to do some like real European tour dates. 517 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we should do a ten person show in Germany. 518 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh I bet we could. I bet we could. 519 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: Get five hundred people in a room in Germany. 520 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: You're crazy. 521 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's talk about some other stuff. We 522 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: talked about that artificial cave that was pretty amazing. He 523 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 2: also had a singers hall which was supposedly recreated from 524 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: part of the Vartsburg, which was a castle where they 525 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 2: had American idol. Essentially, it was called the singers Kreeg 526 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: Singers Contest in twelve oh seven. 527 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is right in the wheelhouse of when this 528 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: fantasy era would have taken place the High Middle Ages 529 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: from about one thousand CE to thirteen hundred CE. 530 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, totally. 531 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: There's also a winter garden, which essentially is an enclosed 532 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: bow that looks out has an amazing view. But the 533 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: thing that's really notable about that is that they their 534 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: window panes with glass measuring nine feet tall about three meters, 535 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: the largest tallest window panes made in the history of 536 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: humanity up to that point. Yeah, pretty impressive. 537 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: Now it's no big deal, but yeah, at the time 538 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: it was. 539 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: And then some of the other technology that he employed. 540 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: He had hot and cold running water, that was not 541 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: very common back then. 542 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: What else he had central heat, he had forced air, 543 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: he had a little electric bell system for his servants 544 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 2: ring it in, and he had telephone lines even though 545 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 2: there was not you know, there was known he could 546 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: really call. There are very few people he could call, 547 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: but he did have telephone lines. 548 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: Apparently it would it would connect to hohen Schwangau, that 549 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: his childhood castle a mile away. 550 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 2: Oh really, okay, well that makes sense. 551 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. He also had flush toilets too. The thing is 552 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: is it took forever for this to be constructed. When 553 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: they broke ground, I think in eighteen sixty nine, he 554 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: estimated to be about three years, and it took them 555 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: longer than that just to build the gatehouse, which is 556 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: like the first building of this massive castle complex, and 557 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: that's where he lived while they were building the rest 558 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: the palace itself. But he only lived in the palace 559 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: for about six months before he died, so I think 560 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: actually as well, see, the whole thing went unfinished as 561 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. But as he was doing this, 562 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: he grew deeper and deeper and deeper in debt. And 563 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: you might be like boo hiss, he used the king's 564 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: money to build himself a fantasy castle. That's not correct. 565 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: No, he did not use public monies. He just went 566 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: into debt and traded on his family name, securing loans 567 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: against that royal family name. He also got a loan 568 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: from Otto von Bismarck of Prussia, who you know helped 569 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 2: him out when he could, including vouching for him, as 570 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 2: we'll see later. But he just you know, he was 571 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: obsessed with these projects. He kept building these projects. He 572 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: started another one about a year after Neus s Fenstein, 573 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: which like you said, wasn't even close to being done, 574 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: and they were like, all right, this is enough. We 575 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: need to get this guy out of here. And this 576 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 2: was all like kind of the quiet talk you know, 577 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 2: around the court, and you know, it seemed like by 578 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 2: all appearances he was still doing the bureaucratic work of 579 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 2: the king. Like I mentioned earlier, was he was not 580 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: so interested in the public sort of warring type of 581 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: stuff and being a big public face. He liked to 582 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: hide away, but he wasn't like just laying around in 583 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: a dream world like would He would keep up with 584 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: the paperwork and stuff like that that he had to do. 585 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 2: But that wasn't enough. They wanted him out. So in 586 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: March of eighteen eighty six, Prime Minister Johann von Lutz 587 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 2: hired Bernard von Gouden, a very prominent psychiatrist who had 588 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: already been treating his mentally ill brother, Ludwig's mentally ill brother. 589 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: And instead of and this guy seemed like a good guy, 590 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: like he was against restraints and violence, and he wanted 591 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 2: to treat patients with dignity and respect and allow them 592 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 2: freedoms and stuff like that. 593 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, very progressive for the time. 594 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: Super progressive. But he did not actually examine the king himself. 595 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: He talked to people around him, sexual partners that he 596 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 2: had and stuff like that, took into account the family 597 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 2: diagnoses here and there, and came up with his own diagnosis. 598 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: Right, he did. And to be fair, von Gudden wasn't 599 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: the only psychiatrist or psychologist who was tasked with preparing 600 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: this report, but he was the most prominent, and in fact, 601 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: he became Ludwig's personal doctor. I guess personal psychiatrist essentially, 602 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: is what it came to. So three months after he 603 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: was tasked with this, they released this report and they 604 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: diagnosed Ludwig with paranoia, parentheses, madness, essentially saying he probably 605 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: had something like schizophrenia. And then one of the other 606 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: things about that report is it touched on, but apparently 607 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: didn't mention explicitly. I hadn't read it, so I'm not 608 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: quite sure how they put it, but it was definitely 609 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: in there, in not direct terms, the fact that he 610 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: was gay, a gay king, right, right, And so I'm 611 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: sure that by itself, like basically a report from a 612 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: psychiatrist saying this would have been enough. But the impression 613 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: I have is it was really the public funds and 614 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: being indebted to families from other nations on Bismarck, like 615 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: that's a big deal, right, And then if the creditors 616 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: came after him, he's like, I don't have any money. 617 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: Ultimately they're going to turn on Bavaria. And I get 618 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: the impression that that was what really got them the most, 619 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: right and what they were trying to protect against. So 620 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: three days after that report comes out, they showed up 621 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: at his doorstep and said you're under arrest. Freeze sucker. 622 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. They they brought was it, Pam Greer? 623 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? No, they didn't say sugar. 624 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I guess that would have been sugar. 625 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 2: They had chloroform. They had a straight jacket. Apparently they 626 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 2: didn't have to use the straight jacket. I'm not sure 627 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 2: about the chloroform, but they placed him under rest, sent 628 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: him to the Castle of Berg. Gooden was to care 629 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 2: for him basically kind of full time there. And here's 630 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: where we get to the question of like whether or 631 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 2: not he was genuinely mentally ill or just sort of 632 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 2: forced out by being an eccentric, gay, young king. Well, 633 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: he wasn't super young by this point, I guess. But 634 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen there was a paper in Germany from 635 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 2: some mental health researchers who basically said it was an 636 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: unreliable report that was politically motivated and they were just 637 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: trying to get him out of there. He was still governing, 638 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 2: he was still sort of doing the paperwork and doing 639 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 2: the things he needed to do. He had written, in fact, 640 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 2: Von Bismarck even vouchers for this guy, saying that they 641 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: had exchanged letters right up until the very end where 642 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: he seemed lucid and was in touch with reality. Seven 643 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: years after that, in twenty twenty, just a few years ago, 644 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: there was another report from another set of German psychiatric 645 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 2: researchers that said, actually, it's probably pretty well founded. The 646 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 2: fact that he was gay may have played a big part, 647 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 2: for sure, but there's a lot of pretty good evidence 648 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 2: here that he had a mental disorder. 649 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can make a pretty good case based on 650 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: the contemporaneous reports, right, Like apparently at least once he 651 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: ordered a dinner for twelve people to be set and 652 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: then when he arrived in the dining room it was 653 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: just him, and yet he still greeted all of the 654 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: empty seats before sitting down. He would also talk to 655 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: a bust of Marie Antoinette quite in depth. It wasn't 656 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: like a passing like love you or anything like that, 657 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: like you would have conversations with her in French. He 658 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: also and this is this is this is something He 659 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: would speak at a fast pace, with different ideas mixing 660 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: together hallucinations and delusions. Yeah, that's a that's a big one, right. 661 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: What else? 662 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 2: Uh? He to pay off his debts. At one point 663 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 2: he proposed a bank robbery. Pretty good idea. It says, 664 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: odd dancing and jumping movements. Who knows file that under whatever? 665 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 2: Huh maybe just fun guy. He when they threatened his 666 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: his to shut down his construction projects. Basically at one 667 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 2: point he threatened suicide and he was he was nocturnal. 668 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 2: He would he would be up all night, he would 669 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 2: sleep all day. None of these things by themselves, like 670 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 2: you know, says aha schizophrenia. But taken altogether, it definitely 671 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 2: paints a picture with his family history of someone who 672 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: may have had something legitimate going on. 673 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think the hallucinations and delusions by 674 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: themselves could account for. 675 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 2: It, but they could have also been taking drugs. 676 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: Sure, I guess so royal nineteenth century drugs. Who knows 677 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: what that is. 678 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 2: That's the good stuff. 679 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: But the twenty twenty paper, essentially they said he probably 680 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: could have been diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder, which is 681 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: characterized by odd, eccentric behavior and few if any close friends, 682 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,879 Speaker 1: and that definitely describes them. So it's possible, but it's 683 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: certainly I mean, we're diagnosing this guy in the same 684 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: way that doctor Gouden did, which was based on reports 685 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,919 Speaker 1: and stuff like that that people writing these papers never 686 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: examined them, so it's not clear and we'll probably never know. 687 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the autopsy report was sort of a 688 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 2: big factor. There was findings on autopsy that showed he 689 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 2: had scars on his frontal lobes for meningitis when he 690 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,720 Speaker 2: was a baby, so that could have been something. 691 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: Sure, I mean that will have some sort of effect. 692 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: And like you said, they performed an autopsy which strongly 693 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: suggests that he died. It's a spoiler alert. He did die. 694 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 2: He eventually died. 695 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean, he was living in the nineteenth century, so yeah, 696 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: he was going to die by now anyway. But he 697 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: died relatively young at age forty one. Another leg of 698 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: the stool. That makes him a tragic figure. And he 699 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: was remember they came and got him, Doctor Gouden and 700 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: some I guess hired men by the Parliament came and 701 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 1: took him away to Castleberg, one of his father's castles, 702 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: where he was essentially under house arrest. And then the 703 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: next day he turned up dead. He and doctor Gouden 704 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: went on a walk around the castle grounds their second 705 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: of the day. This one was in the evening, and 706 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: they never came back, so people went out to look 707 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: for them, and when they did, they discovered them dead, 708 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: floating face down in Lake Sternberg on the castle grounds. 709 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, the story was Ludwig wanted to drown himself, made 710 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 2: a break for the water. Doctor Gouden went after him. 711 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 2: They tussled in the water and doctor Gouden was drowned, 712 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 2: and then the king drowned himself after. There's a lot 713 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: of hanky stuff the way this went down first, and 714 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 2: like they really knowing you need to be one hanky 715 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 2: thing in this case really is the fact that they 716 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: found them floating. Yeah, because when you drown, you sink, 717 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: your lungs take on water, and you know, ten seconds 718 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 2: you can be at the bottom of that lake. Maybe 719 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 2: a few days or a week later, you might eventually 720 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: float back up once like gases are released and stuff 721 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 2: like that. But drowning victims don't float. And there was 722 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 2: also no water in his lungs at the autopsy, or 723 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 2: no foam at his mouth or nose or anything like that, 724 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,399 Speaker 2: Like he didn't drown. It just seems pretty clear. 725 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: Certainly doesn't seem that way. So other people say, well, no, 726 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: he didn't drown. He died from being assassinated. He was shot, 727 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: as was doctor Gouden, who just happened to be in 728 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time, and whoever assassinated 729 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Ludwig didn't want to leave any witnesses. And there's a 730 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: whole fringe belief that this was that Ludwig was assassinated 731 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: and this was covered up. And there's supposedly like the 732 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: diary of a fisherman who was there at the scene, 733 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: who that he left this confession or description of what 734 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,479 Speaker 1: really happened after he died. Supposedly somebody in the same 735 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: royal family as Ludwig or the royal house had his 736 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,280 Speaker 1: coat that he wore that night and had two bullet 737 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: holes in it, and supposedly she showed it to some 738 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: other people. All of this stuff. The big problem is 739 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 1: it's all second and third hand accounts and all of 740 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: the evidence that's referenced the physical evidence, and it's gone vanished, 741 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: burned up in a house fire, no one knows where 742 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: it went whatever. So there's it's just going to always 743 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: essentially remain a fringe theory. Unless we find like a 744 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: writing from Auto von Bismarck talking about how he had 745 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: Ludvig assassinated, we're just probably never gonna know what happened 746 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,240 Speaker 1: to him. And there's actually a group called the Google Monitor. 747 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 2: Did I say that Right's really more like MENA. 748 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: And they're essentially like a Bavarian independent society who say, 749 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: not only was Ludwig assassinated, that makes everything that came 750 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: after that illegitimate. 751 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, they said it you hate himlouts? Why do you 752 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:44,320 Speaker 2: hate himlouts? 753 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: Their reasoning. So that's the thing. One of the there 754 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: were very many people who had good reason to have 755 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: Ludvig assassinated. He was deposed, his uncle was put into power, 756 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: and Ludwig had been taken care of, so why kill him? 757 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 1: And the Google monitor says that von Bismarck had found 758 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: out that Ludwig was negotiating with France to help liberate 759 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,439 Speaker 1: Bavaria from this new German empire, so that he could 760 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: you take his rightful place on the throne again. And 761 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: Bismarck was like, we can't have that, and assassinated him 762 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: to who knows. 763 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 2: We'll never know. He died at forty one, that's one 764 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: thing we do know, and he very much like you've 765 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 2: been saying, it was a tragic figure. His bestie there, 766 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,400 Speaker 2: Empress Elizabeth, put some jasmine in his hands in his casket, 767 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 2: which is a very sweet thing to do. French poet 768 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,240 Speaker 2: Verlaine called him the only true king of this century. 769 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 2: And the irony of all this is that Neus Schwanstein, 770 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 2: which had basically not bankrupted him but put him in 771 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,280 Speaker 2: dire financial Straits and may have led to his oulster. 772 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 2: Kind of right after he died, they opened it to 773 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 2: tourists and it has made a ton of money since 774 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 2: then and continues to. 775 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, they estimate one hundred and thirty million people have 776 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: visited it since they opened it a few weeks after 777 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: his death. Isn't that nuts? 778 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 2: It's pretty great. 779 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,439 Speaker 1: Also, if you go to Castlebergh in Lake Sternberg, there's 780 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: a cross coming out of the water to mark the 781 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: spot where his body was found. And he's even more 782 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: beloved in death than he was in life. Every August 783 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: twenty fourth and twenty fifth, Fusion, the town nearest the 784 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: castle celebrates his birthday, So he's kind of a big 785 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: deal around there, you know. Yeah, totally great, great story. 786 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: I love Ludwig the second. I don't know if I 787 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: got the point across or not, but he was a 788 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 1: tragic figure. 789 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:41,760 Speaker 2: Tragic figure. 790 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: You got anything else, I'm gonna guess no, I got 791 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: nothing else. Okay, that means everybody, it's time for listener mail. 792 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna say this is from Parker and 793 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 2: it's about Share. I'm kind of going to bad for 794 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 2: Share with some of her song themes and album titles. 795 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 2: Hey guys, I hope people aren't too hard on share 796 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 2: these days, for the title Gypsy's Tramps and Thieves, and 797 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 2: for the song half Breed. I was a young child 798 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 2: living in apple pie life when those songs were released, 799 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 2: and they were my first introduction to how unfair life 800 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 2: can be. I felt a lot of empathy for the 801 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 2: character singing the songs and swore to myself never to 802 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 2: make people feel like that. Share is awesome. So thanks 803 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 2: for that great episode. And you know that's something I 804 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 2: don't even think we mentioned that there are certain singers 805 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,280 Speaker 2: who at times have sung sort of as character in character. 806 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 2: My own beloved Billy Joel wrote songs about, you know, 807 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 2: seemingly from the perspective of a Vietnam vet or from 808 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 2: a longboat, you know, long shoreman and a fisherman, and 809 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen, and you know, there's long been a rich 810 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 2: history of sort of writing in character and as a 811 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 2: character and singing as a character. So that is how 812 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,320 Speaker 2: Parker took it, and it seems like it imparted a 813 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 2: good lesson. 814 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that's a great, great point, Parker. Thanks 815 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: for writing in to point that out. If you want 816 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: to be like Parker and write in to point something 817 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: out that's very insightful. We love that kind of thing. 818 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: You can send it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio 819 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: dot com. 820 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 821 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 2: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 822 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,760 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.