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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: With us now in Washington, d C. The senior Senator

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Speaker 2: from Massachusetts, Senator Elizabeth Warren, is with us. It's great

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Speaker 2: to see you, Senator, welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Good to be here here at Bloomberg. Of course, we've

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Speaker 2: had some big news about anti trust this week that

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Speaker 2: we're looking forward to talking with you about. But we're

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Speaker 2: also getting a lot of questions about whether the government

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Speaker 2: is going to start shutting down on Friday. I realize

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Speaker 2: you might not have the answer to that, but there's

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Speaker 2: an effort underway right now, I guess, a last ditch

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Speaker 2: following this meeting at the White House with the four

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Speaker 2: leaders to get something done. We're hearing from Mitch McConnell's

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Speaker 2: office that there could be a minibus that comes up

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Speaker 2: for a vote. Would you support that to keep the government?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Look, can I just be clear, this is the

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Speaker 1: craziest kind of negotiation you would ever see, and that

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Speaker 1: is that, as far as I can tell, everybody wants

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Speaker 1: to deal keep the government open. We've all agreed on

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Speaker 1: what the numbers are. It's a budget deal, right, and

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Speaker 1: everyone's agreed on it, and the Republicans in the House

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Speaker 1: are just saying no. And it's hard to sit out

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Speaker 1: and negotiate with somebody when you see because you want

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Speaker 1: what and then some crazy thing flies in that the

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Speaker 1: majority of Republicans don't even want much less that you'll

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Speaker 1: get Democrats on. So we're kind of in this shutdown

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Speaker 1: the government for what purpose? What are the Republicans trying

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Speaker 1: to accomplish here? It's a kind of dysfunction that is

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Speaker 1: not about Democrats and Republicans fighting each other. It's just

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Speaker 1: Republicans who just can't seem to get their act together

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Speaker 1: so that we do the most basic basic job of government,

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Speaker 1: and that is fund it and keep it going well.

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Speaker 2: The goalposts, as we keep hearing, are moving on a

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Speaker 2: couple of matters, including the supplemental emergency funding request for Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: for Israel, for Taiwan. There's an effort in the House

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Speaker 2: now to subvert the Speaker that involves Democrats and Republicans

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Speaker 2: a discharge petition that would bring defense, only it's a

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Speaker 2: little different than the one you passed, and we'll see

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Speaker 2: what they get on the border. Would you support an

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Speaker 2: approach like that if it got the money to Ukraine?

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Speaker 1: Look, I think the key thing, right now, and we

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Speaker 1: were just talking about this among the Democrats just an

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Speaker 1: hour ago. Pass the bill that's already passed the Senate.

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Speaker 1: We have Republicans, we have Democrats who voted for it.

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Speaker 1: Ukraine needs the money now. The Ukrainians are running out

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Speaker 1: of ammunition. Literally, they need the help right now. This

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Speaker 1: thing has already been vetted, It's gotten strong support from

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Speaker 1: Republicans in the Senate. There are Republicans in the House

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Speaker 1: who want to do it, There are Democrats in the

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Speaker 1: House who want to do it. The path is there.

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Speaker 1: All you have to do is just take it. Come on,

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Speaker 1: Elire Johnson, MA could happen?

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Speaker 3: Well, of course, it's not just aid for Ukraine in question,

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Speaker 3: it's aid for Israel as well. You have previously said

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Speaker 3: the US should be conditioning aid to Israel to protect

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Speaker 3: civilian life in Palestine. And that is very much a

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Speaker 3: topic of discussion in Michigan right now, where there is

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Speaker 3: a primary underway and an effort for voters to back

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Speaker 3: uncommitted rather than President Biden because of his policy and

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Speaker 3: support Israel. Despite what we're seeing happen in Gaza. Does

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Speaker 3: the president deserve to lose those votes?

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Speaker 1: The president is doing, he is working hard, and the

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Speaker 1: president deserves our support. He has earned it, and he

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Speaker 1: has earned it across the board. I want to be clear, though,

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about what's happening right now in Israel,

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Speaker 1: that the Nittya Who government in response to terrorist attacks,

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are still hostages that are held

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Speaker 1: the Nittanya Who government has created a humanitarian disaster, and

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Speaker 1: it's a disaster that gets worse every single day. In

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Speaker 1: addition to that, the Nittya Who government has said no

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Speaker 1: to a long term peace solution that is a two

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Speaker 1: state solution, which is the official policy of the United

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Speaker 1: States of America and the one way that we can

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Speaker 1: make certain that two states for two peoples who are

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Speaker 1: able to live in dignity and security and with self determination.

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Speaker 1: We know what we need to do right now. We

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Speaker 1: need to get those hostages back, we need to cease

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Speaker 1: fire in place, we need to open up that humanitarian

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Speaker 1: relief big time, and we need to be pushing both

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Speaker 1: parties toward a two state solution where everyone in the

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Speaker 1: region can live in dignity, security and self determination.

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Speaker 2: The economy is, of course a big part of Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden's pitch in Michigan and all over the country right now,

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Speaker 2: because the data are undeniable. The strength of this economy

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Speaker 2: despite the debate that seems to be being had around

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Speaker 2: whether we're going to have a recession or not. But

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Speaker 2: it's interesting, the more the Fed hikes interest rates, it

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Speaker 2: seems the stronger this job market gets. Somehow, And I

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Speaker 2: recall some pretty tough conversations you had with Jay Powell

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Speaker 2: in senate hearings. We call them a dangerous man because

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Speaker 2: the idea was that this job market might not survive

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Speaker 2: such intense rate hikes.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel differently, not only might not remember that

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Speaker 1: the Fed put out a report a year ago this

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Speaker 1: past December that said they were targeting watching the unemployment

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Speaker 1: rate go up, they were going to keep raising interest

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Speaker 1: rates until more people millions of people were unemployed. Now

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Speaker 1: it turned out they raised those interest rates and that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. And it's the reminder the Fed has basically

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Speaker 1: one tool on inflation, right it raises interest rates. That

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Speaker 1: works for some kinds of inflation problems. But this was

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Speaker 1: a time when price is shot up, in part because

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Speaker 1: we were coming out of COVID, we had supply chain canks,

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Speaker 1: in part because the war in Ukraine had disrupted both

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Speaker 1: food and energy supplies, and in part and it's still

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Speaker 1: happening because in concentrated industries we've watched big increases in

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Speaker 1: profit margins as companies have engaged in price gouging. The

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Speaker 1: FED can't touch any of those and in fact, I've

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Speaker 1: asked your own Powell about this in hearings and he's

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Speaker 1: admitted they can't do anything about it. Right now, those

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Speaker 1: high interest rates are actually increasing costs for families because

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Speaker 1: one of the big parts of cost for families is housing.

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Speaker 1: And with interest rates high, we know it's more expensive

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Speaker 1: to buy a home. We also know it's more expensive

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Speaker 1: to finance an apartment building or finance any new housing construction,

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Speaker 1: and all of that gets passed on to consumers. It's

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Speaker 1: time to get those interest rates down.

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Speaker 3: So you would like to see the FED start cutting

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Speaker 3: rates as soon as the next meeting. Yes, despite what

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Speaker 3: may happen to the fight against inflation as.

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Speaker 1: A result, well, you know they're off supposedly fighting inflation.

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Speaker 1: They are not fighting some, not all, of the principal

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Speaker 1: causes of inflation. Besides, let's keep in mind six out

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Speaker 1: of the last seven months inflation has been at two

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Speaker 1: percent or lower. We've watched the numbers. They're in a

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Speaker 1: pretty good place. And what matters, I think is that

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Speaker 1: we pay attention to how families are experiencing this economy.

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Speaker 1: The Fed's job is not just a bunch of papers

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Speaker 1: and numbers on a sheet of paper. It's about how

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Speaker 1: families are living this economy, and keeping families so stressed

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Speaker 1: on housing not good for our country.

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Speaker 3: Of course, here at Bloomberg we talk a lot about

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Speaker 3: the Federal Reserve. We also talk a lot about deals,

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Speaker 3: as we have seen a lot of news within the

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Speaker 3: last week, the FTC yesterday filing suit to block the

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Speaker 3: merger between Kroger and Albertson's. Of course, within the last

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Speaker 3: week and change, we've had news of the Capital One

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Speaker 3: Discover Financial merger, both of which I know you are

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Speaker 3: against on anti competitive grounds. But what these companies argue

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Speaker 3: is that is how they're able to compete against a

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Speaker 3: Visa or a MasterCard, or an Amazon or a Walmart.

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Speaker 3: Is it not anti competitive to not allow consolidation to

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Speaker 3: compete with the largest players that are out there.

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Speaker 1: So let me just start with this is not the

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Speaker 1: first time we've heard this argument. This argument has been

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Speaker 1: used pretty much since the beginning of time in Eddie

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Speaker 1: trust law. Oh please, just let me get bigger so

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Speaker 1: I can compete with the other giants. But let's unpack

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Speaker 1: these just a little bit. So, for example, in the

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Speaker 1: case of the Kroger Albertson's merger, we've now in earlier

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Speaker 1: lawsuits that have been brought and now information that's coming

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Speaker 1: out through discovery, we see that those two giants have

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Speaker 1: been communicating with each other about how to keep wages

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Speaker 1: down for grocery workers at both stores. Potentially a violation

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Speaker 1: of the law, but it tells us what they want.

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Speaker 2: They don't want to con agreement.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, these are the no poachr agreements, right, Which is

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Speaker 1: just a way to say, I'm paying these folks seven

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Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents an hour, eleven dollars and fifty

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Speaker 1: cents an hour, and I don't have to worry they're

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Speaker 1: going to get hired away for twelve dollars or twelve

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Speaker 1: and a half dollars, right, I don't have to worry

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Speaker 1: about that. This is another way to say that this

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Speaker 1: is how the giants see their way to improve profits.

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Speaker 1: Do they improve profits by offering better service? Do they

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Speaker 1: improve profits by lowering costs. Now, that's not where they're going.

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Speaker 1: They're looking at ways to reduce competition. And I got

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Speaker 1: to say right now, particularly in the grocery business, where

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Speaker 1: we've actually seen margins increase dramatically, both for the individual

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Speaker 1: items you buy and at the stores, this is not

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Speaker 1: a time for the FTC to say, sure, go ahead

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Speaker 1: and merge. Let's just have one grocery store in each

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Speaker 1: of these areas, setting prices and setting wages wherever they

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Speaker 1: want to set them. Bad idea.

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Speaker 3: There's another issue you're very passionate about in addition to antitrust,

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Speaker 3: and that is crypto. You have just the last week

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Speaker 3: gotten a new challenger for your Senate seat in Massachusetts,

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Speaker 3: John Deeton, a pro crypto attorney. There is tens of

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Speaker 3: millions of dollars in crypto backpacks that could be weaponized

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Speaker 3: against you in this election cycle. As the industry sees

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Speaker 3: that you are pushing legislation in your anti money laundering

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Speaker 3: legislation that would essentially apply the bank secretcy atky SEE

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Speaker 3: restrictions to this industry. That that is something that could

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Speaker 3: completely wipe it out in the United States. Clearly, this

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Speaker 3: relationship is antagonistic. Why not try to collaborate with the

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Speaker 3: industry to fix the issues.

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Speaker 1: I just want to collaborate with the industry. What I

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Speaker 1: don't understand is why the industry seems to be saying

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Speaker 1: that the only way that they can survive is if

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Speaker 1: there's plenty of space for the drug traffickers and the

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Speaker 1: human traffickers, oh and the terrorists and the ransomware scammers

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Speaker 1: and the consumer scammers, and the rogue nations North Korea

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Speaker 1: that is financing about half of its nuclear missile program

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Speaker 1: with crypto, that all of that has to be left open.

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Speaker 1: You know, keep in mind, in our financial system, pretty

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Speaker 1: much everybody follows the same set of rules. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: banks and credit unions and credit card companies, gold traders

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Speaker 1: and stockbrokers, private ec he now has to follow the

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Speaker 1: rules precious metal dealers, Venmo, Western Union, but not crypto.

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Speaker 1: My view of the world is same kind of activity,

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Speaker 1: same kind of risk, should have the same regulation. I'm

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Speaker 1: not looking for fancy or regulation for them. I'm not

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Speaker 1: looking for anything tougher for them. I just want to

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Speaker 1: level playing field here where if you're part of the

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Speaker 1: financial system moving around literally billions of dollars that remember

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Speaker 1: my bill is not a regulatory bill. It's a bill

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Speaker 1: about law enforcement that law enforcement has the same tools

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Speaker 1: that it has anywhere else to be able to shut

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Speaker 1: down the terrorists and the drug traffickers and the scammers.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the right thing, and I welcome anybody

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Speaker 1: who wants to come in and make that happen. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand a defense that says no, no, We've

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Speaker 1: got to make sure that there is a place for

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Speaker 1: those guys to play without getting caught.