WEBVTT - Author Cohen: 'The Sun & The Moon & The Rolling Stones' (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Charlie Pellett, and that's Bloomberg Business Flash. You're listening

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<v Speaker 1>to Taking Stock with Bim Box and Kathleen Hayes on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio, The Sun and The Moon and the Rolling Stones.

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<v Speaker 1>What can we learn from a new book by author

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Cohen called The Sun and the Moon and the

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<v Speaker 1>Rolling Stones? What can we learn about Business? For Everyone?

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<v Speaker 1>Here to tell us more is the author Rich Cohen.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for being with us. Rich Hey, thanks for having me. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>You've got to tell people a little bit of your

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<v Speaker 1>background so that they understand how you came to be

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<v Speaker 1>so informed about the writing of this book. You are

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<v Speaker 1>not just some guy who was interested in the Stones

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<v Speaker 1>and wanted to write a book that combined their history

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<v Speaker 1>plus your own journey. Tell us about your relationship. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, a Stone fanatic as a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>and usually that was the music of my big brother

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<v Speaker 1>who locked me out of his room. So it had

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<v Speaker 1>a great value to me because it wasn't allowed near it.

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<v Speaker 1>And Um, right after college, I got a job at

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<v Speaker 1>Rolling Stone Magazine, and I got this crazy assignment to

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<v Speaker 1>go up to Toronto where the Rolling Stones were putting

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<v Speaker 1>together a show and just basically hang out with them

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<v Speaker 1>for two weeks and watched them assemble this show where

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<v Speaker 1>they were in an old elementary school, Jim School. At night,

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<v Speaker 1>you always know what's happening the Rolling Stones are putting

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<v Speaker 1>together the show and just sort of watched just me

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<v Speaker 1>and them as they put together this this show. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I went on the road with them and they

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<v Speaker 1>wrote a bunch of stories about them, and then after

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<v Speaker 1>that finished, I then got hired by Mick Jagger and

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Scorsese to work on a movie about the rock

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<v Speaker 1>and roll business, which eventually became Vinyl on HBO, and um,

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<v Speaker 1>so I had this long you know, we worked on

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<v Speaker 1>that screenplay for like six or seven years, and I

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<v Speaker 1>had this realization about a year ago, driving around in

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<v Speaker 1>the car with my son listening to his terrible music,

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<v Speaker 1>that rock and roll, which had been so important to us,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of died in the mid nineties, and the Rolling

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<v Speaker 1>Stones were the great band that survived. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>could figure out the secret of them, you could figure

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<v Speaker 1>out the secret of everything. I just think it's interesting today.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's Bob Dylan's seventy fifth birthday, and of course, um,

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<v Speaker 1>Mick Jagger, Keith Richards not far behind at age seventy two. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that's interesting to me is what

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<v Speaker 1>a phenomenally successful business the Stones have been. Of Course,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of bands go on tours now, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>how you really make the money, not selling any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of vinyl or anything like that. Mick Jagger course attended

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<v Speaker 1>the London School of Economics for a while. Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>about that part of the Stones story, Well, actually, the

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<v Speaker 1>Rolling Stones were you know when I even covered them.

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<v Speaker 1>They're kind of one way to think of them as

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<v Speaker 1>a giant corporation that rolls around the world and makes

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<v Speaker 1>billions and billions of dollars. And the story really comes

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<v Speaker 1>out of trauma, which is early on. The Stones worshiped

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<v Speaker 1>these sort of um African American blues musicians like Mighty Waters,

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<v Speaker 1>and the story with them as they always got ripped

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<v Speaker 1>off by the record company, and the Stones, of course

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<v Speaker 1>winds with every part of their experience got ripped off

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<v Speaker 1>by their record company, specifically by their manager, Alan Klein,

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<v Speaker 1>and it really it's acted their music um the Alan

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<v Speaker 1>Klein also represented the Beatles and a lot of other people,

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<v Speaker 1>and as a result of what he did, the Rolling

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<v Speaker 1>Stones were broke in the early seventies and they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even own the rights to their own songs and they

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<v Speaker 1>still don't, so a lot of the great Rolling Stone

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<v Speaker 1>songs they don't own the rights to it. Was sort

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<v Speaker 1>of taken from them by Alan Klein, and they had

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<v Speaker 1>they were living in England, where the marginal tax rate was,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, and they realized that they could never pay

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<v Speaker 1>that tax back and stay in the country, so they

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<v Speaker 1>went into tax exile. They went into this old mansion

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<v Speaker 1>in the south of France and they made this record

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<v Speaker 1>Exile on Main Street, which is like the greatest rock

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<v Speaker 1>and roll record ever made, and exile because they were

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<v Speaker 1>these tax exiles. And at that point Mick Jagger, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>because he had gone to London School of Economics and

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<v Speaker 1>he was very smart, was embarrassed by what had happened,

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<v Speaker 1>that he had been taken, and he started to really

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<v Speaker 1>assert control and turned it into this kind of business

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<v Speaker 1>that's a model for all rock and roll on the road.

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<v Speaker 1>And that really is where they got their savvy was

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<v Speaker 1>through terrible experience. Rich Let's just focus on some of

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<v Speaker 1>the lessons that people in business may be able to

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<v Speaker 1>learn from the book. I want you to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>cutting the anchor before it drags you down, right, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Rolling Stones were actually founded by this guy,

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Jones. He founded the band. He had the vision.

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<v Speaker 1>He was the best music musician in the band. But

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<v Speaker 1>at a certain point he became a problem. He became

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<v Speaker 1>a drug addict, he became an LSD problem, and he

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<v Speaker 1>actually started getting busted to the point where he couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>go on tour. And that's how a lot of bands ended,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some member of Theirs ended up where he

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't leave the country, couldn't play. What Mick Jagger and

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<v Speaker 1>Keith Richards did is they actually, after a year of

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<v Speaker 1>trying to get it right, when inspired their founder and

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<v Speaker 1>I always thought it was a situation where they had

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<v Speaker 1>to cut the anchor to set themselves free. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>I always thought that the really sentimental people, the really

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<v Speaker 1>kind people, don't make it. One lessons of the Stones

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<v Speaker 1>has always been the ruthless. I mean, if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to survive, you have to be ruthless about your decision making.

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<v Speaker 1>And they were the most most ruthless about getting away

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<v Speaker 1>from people that were hurting them or not helping them.

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<v Speaker 1>You also talk about never stop reinventing, Well, that's to

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<v Speaker 1>me fascinating. Which is their first manager who really figured

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<v Speaker 1>out what they were, which was kind of the anti Beatles,

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<v Speaker 1>said to them every five years, you have to reinvent yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're if you're a band, because the five years

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<v Speaker 1>is how long it takes a kid to go from

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<v Speaker 1>being a sophomore in high school in the workforce, and

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<v Speaker 1>now you have a new sophomore in high school who

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<v Speaker 1>wants his own music, So you have to become that

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<v Speaker 1>new music for that new kid. You have to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of change to stay the same. And that's what the

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<v Speaker 1>Stones were better at than anybody, even the Beatles is

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<v Speaker 1>constantly reinventing themselves. So in every new era, they're a

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<v Speaker 1>new band, which is why they can still go on

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<v Speaker 1>the road now because for so many different generations they

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<v Speaker 1>were the band of high school. Okay, it's a tough

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<v Speaker 1>question your favorite Stones song or maybe album. I think

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite Stone song is um Wild Horses Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's just because there's a there's actually footage

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<v Speaker 1>of them having making it in muscle shows Alabama and

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<v Speaker 1>then listening to it, and the look on their faces

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<v Speaker 1>when they're listening to their own music is this look

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<v Speaker 1>of we had this sound in our head and somehow

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<v Speaker 1>we got that sound into a record, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>a look of complete artistic contentment and success. Rich Cohen,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us. I think mine

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<v Speaker 1>might be time is on my side, but I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>There's so many great songs from the Stones, The Sun

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<v Speaker 1>and the Moon and the Rolling Stones by Rich Cohen.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for joining me.

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<v Speaker 1>Kathleen Hays and Pimpbox right here on taking stock on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio. Coming up on Bloomberg Law, a discussion about

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<v Speaker 1>antitrust lawsuits against sixteen of the world's largest banks. Could

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<v Speaker 1>it overwhelm the banks by requiring them to pay triple damages?

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<v Speaker 1>We'll find out