1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Global business news twenty four hours a day at Bloomberg 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: dot com, the Radio plus mobile app, and on your radio. 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: This is a Bloomberg Business Flash from Bloomberg World Headquarters. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: I'm Charlie Pellet. Stocks advanced the most in more than 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: two months as a surgeon home sales fueled speculation. The 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: economy can withstand higher interest rates amid rising bets. The 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve will tighten policy this summer. The s and 8 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: P up twenty eight points to two thousand seventy six, 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: a gain of one point four percent, as stack up 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: ninety five points, a gain of two percent. The Dow 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: Jones Industrial average hired by two hundred thirteen points, up 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: one point two percent. Tenure down seven thirty seconds, yield 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: there one point eight six percent, Gold down twenty three 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: ninety the ounce to twelve seven sixty, a drop there 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: of one point nine percent, Crude of one and a 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: half percent to forty eight dollars seventy nine cents a barrel. 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm Charlie Pellett, and that's Bloomberg Business Flash. You're listening 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: to Taking Stock with Bim Box and Kathleen Hayes on 19 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, The Sun and The Moon and the Rolling Stones. 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: What can we learn from a new book by author 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: Richard Cohen called The Sun and the Moon and the 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones? What can we learn about Business? For Everyone? 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: Here to tell us more is the author Rich Cohen. 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. Rich Hey, thanks for having me. Um, 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: You've got to tell people a little bit of your 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: background so that they understand how you came to be 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: so informed about the writing of this book. You are 28 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: not just some guy who was interested in the Stones 29 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: and wanted to write a book that combined their history 30 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: plus your own journey. Tell us about your relationship. Well, 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: I was, you know, a Stone fanatic as a kid, 32 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: and usually that was the music of my big brother 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: who locked me out of his room. So it had 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: a great value to me because it wasn't allowed near it. 35 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: And Um, right after college, I got a job at 36 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone Magazine, and I got this crazy assignment to 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: go up to Toronto where the Rolling Stones were putting 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: together a show and just basically hang out with them 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: for two weeks and watched them assemble this show where 40 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: they were in an old elementary school, Jim School. At night, 41 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: you always know what's happening the Rolling Stones are putting 42 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: together the show and just sort of watched just me 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: and them as they put together this this show. And 44 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: then I went on the road with them and they 45 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: wrote a bunch of stories about them, and then after 46 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: that finished, I then got hired by Mick Jagger and 47 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese to work on a movie about the rock 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: and roll business, which eventually became Vinyl on HBO, and um, 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: so I had this long you know, we worked on 50 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: that screenplay for like six or seven years, and I 51 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: had this realization about a year ago, driving around in 52 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: the car with my son listening to his terrible music, 53 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: that rock and roll, which had been so important to us, 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: kind of died in the mid nineties, and the Rolling 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: Stones were the great band that survived. And if you 56 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: could figure out the secret of them, you could figure 57 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: out the secret of everything. I just think it's interesting today. 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's Bob Dylan's seventy fifth birthday, and of course, um, 59 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards not far behind at age seventy two. Uh. 60 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting to me is what 61 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: a phenomenally successful business the Stones have been. Of Course, 62 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: a lot of bands go on tours now, because that's 63 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: how you really make the money, not selling any kind 64 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: of vinyl or anything like that. Mick Jagger course attended 65 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: the London School of Economics for a while. Tell us 66 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: about that part of the Stones story, Well, actually, the 67 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones were you know when I even covered them. 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: They're kind of one way to think of them as 69 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: a giant corporation that rolls around the world and makes 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: billions and billions of dollars. And the story really comes 71 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: out of trauma, which is early on. The Stones worshiped 72 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: these sort of um African American blues musicians like Mighty Waters, 73 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: and the story with them as they always got ripped 74 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: off by the record company, and the Stones, of course 75 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: winds with every part of their experience got ripped off 76 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: by their record company, specifically by their manager, Alan Klein, 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: and it really it's acted their music um the Alan 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: Klein also represented the Beatles and a lot of other people, 79 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: and as a result of what he did, the Rolling 80 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: Stones were broke in the early seventies and they didn't 81 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: even own the rights to their own songs and they 82 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: still don't, so a lot of the great Rolling Stone 83 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: songs they don't own the rights to it. Was sort 84 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: of taken from them by Alan Klein, and they had 85 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: they were living in England, where the marginal tax rate was, 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: I think, and they realized that they could never pay 87 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: that tax back and stay in the country, so they 88 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: went into tax exile. They went into this old mansion 89 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: in the south of France and they made this record 90 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: Exile on Main Street, which is like the greatest rock 91 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: and roll record ever made, and exile because they were 92 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: these tax exiles. And at that point Mick Jagger, I think, 93 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: because he had gone to London School of Economics and 94 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: he was very smart, was embarrassed by what had happened, 95 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: that he had been taken, and he started to really 96 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: assert control and turned it into this kind of business 97 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: that's a model for all rock and roll on the road. 98 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: And that really is where they got their savvy was 99 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: through terrible experience. Rich Let's just focus on some of 100 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: the lessons that people in business may be able to 101 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: learn from the book. I want you to talk about 102 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: cutting the anchor before it drags you down, right, Okay. 103 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: So the Rolling Stones were actually founded by this guy, 104 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: Brian Jones. He founded the band. He had the vision. 105 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: He was the best music musician in the band. But 106 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,559 Speaker 1: at a certain point he became a problem. He became 107 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: a drug addict, he became an LSD problem, and he 108 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: actually started getting busted to the point where he couldn't 109 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: go on tour. And that's how a lot of bands ended, 110 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: you know, some member of Theirs ended up where he 111 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: couldn't leave the country, couldn't play. What Mick Jagger and 112 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: Keith Richards did is they actually, after a year of 113 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: trying to get it right, when inspired their founder and 114 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: I always thought it was a situation where they had 115 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: to cut the anchor to set themselves free. And it's 116 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: I always thought that the really sentimental people, the really 117 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: kind people, don't make it. One lessons of the Stones 118 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: has always been the ruthless. I mean, if you want 119 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 1: to survive, you have to be ruthless about your decision making. 120 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: And they were the most most ruthless about getting away 121 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: from people that were hurting them or not helping them. 122 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: You also talk about never stop reinventing, Well, that's to 123 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: me fascinating. Which is their first manager who really figured 124 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: out what they were, which was kind of the anti Beatles, 125 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 1: said to them every five years, you have to reinvent yourself, 126 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: if you're if you're a band, because the five years 127 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: is how long it takes a kid to go from 128 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: being a sophomore in high school in the workforce, and 129 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: now you have a new sophomore in high school who 130 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: wants his own music, So you have to become that 131 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: new music for that new kid. You have to kind 132 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: of change to stay the same. And that's what the 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: Stones were better at than anybody, even the Beatles is 134 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: constantly reinventing themselves. So in every new era, they're a 135 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: new band, which is why they can still go on 136 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: the road now because for so many different generations they 137 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: were the band of high school. Okay, it's a tough 138 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: question your favorite Stones song or maybe album. I think 139 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: my favorite Stone song is um Wild Horses Um, and 140 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: I think that's just because there's a there's actually footage 141 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: of them having making it in muscle shows Alabama and 142 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: then listening to it, and the look on their faces 143 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: when they're listening to their own music is this look 144 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: of we had this sound in our head and somehow 145 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: we got that sound into a record, and it was 146 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: a look of complete artistic contentment and success. Rich Cohen, 147 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. I think mine 148 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: might be time is on my side, but I don't know. 149 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: There's so many great songs from the Stones, The Sun 150 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: and the Moon and the Rolling Stones by Rich Cohen. 151 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for joining me. 152 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: Kathleen Hays and Pimpbox right here on taking stock on 153 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Coming up on Bloomberg Law, a discussion about 154 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: antitrust lawsuits against sixteen of the world's largest banks. Could 155 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: it overwhelm the banks by requiring them to pay triple damages? 156 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: We'll find out