Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: Select Elliot and now your host Dane Brugler, David Hellman
Speaker 1: and Brian brought us. Well, it's day two of the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl from Mobile, Alabama. You've got the Draft Show.
Speaker 1: Brian brought us, Dane Burglar, CBS Sports, David Hellman, Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com and Kent Garrison, Executive Producer. Welcome back. Guys.
Speaker 1: Got some full padded practices today, which is kind of neat,
Speaker 1: but we'll get into that. I want to kind of
Speaker 1: set the scene no a little bit before we get
Speaker 1: going here. Appreciate everybody that joined us last night, caught
Speaker 1: us either on all the different platforms, whether that was
Speaker 1: on the app, on Dallas Cowboys dot Com on Periscope.
Speaker 1: We do appreciate Twitter all that we got all that
Speaker 1: kind of taken care of. So it was really really
Speaker 1: cool to have everybody involved. We're gonna the same kind
Speaker 1: of format we did last night. I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: about the practice. Also want to get into your questions.
Speaker 1: It's always important. We can't take calls, but we can
Speaker 1: do Twitter. On the twenty Dave and I sent out
Speaker 1: the notice to trying to get your questions in. Make
Speaker 1: sure you send them to at the draft show, and
Speaker 1: that way Dave can get him and he can include
Speaker 1: your name on that and everything, and then we can
Speaker 1: answer your questions if not only have to be about
Speaker 1: the senior ball, but any kind of draft questions you
Speaker 1: might have. We've got the guys here to handle all that.
Speaker 1: So with that being said, got the two practices in today?
Speaker 1: Anything stand out? I know that's a broad question, and
Speaker 1: I usually don't want to ask a bunch of broad questions,
Speaker 1: but you and I got into discussion about the pace
Speaker 1: of practice from the from the shoo Chiago staff and
Speaker 1: the Cleveland staff, and it was funny because I kind
Speaker 1: of felt like that I got something from the Cleveland staff,
Speaker 1: but you were on the other side of it, though
Speaker 1: you felt like the Chicago staff had a little bit
Speaker 1: more pace to their practice. I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: question the I don't know. To me, it was obvious
Speaker 1: the difference between the two practices. And it's the true
Speaker 1: nature of an All Star game like this. It's it's
Speaker 1: for the players and it's for the scouts, right, it's
Speaker 1: for evaluation purposes. Where the Browns practice was a lot
Speaker 1: more implementation installation trying to win a football game exactly,
Speaker 1: it will and I guess didn't work during the season.
Speaker 1: Let's try and win the Senior Bowl. A big part
Speaker 1: of it's also teaching, and so you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: a great opportunity for the Browns because for their coaching staff,
Speaker 1: they can teach these guys, you know, with the walkthroughs
Speaker 1: and the different installations, and they can understand from from
Speaker 1: the coach who understands the coaching and then who progresses
Speaker 1: throughout the week. But for the scouts and everyone watching,
Speaker 1: all of us, we don't necessarily get as much out
Speaker 1: of that as the Browns coaches do. So from just
Speaker 1: outside perspective, I much prefer the North practice with the Bears,
Speaker 1: which is a lot more live action, a lot more
Speaker 1: one on one. Yeah, it's it's a lot more speed
Speaker 1: and game action, where with the Browns a lot more
Speaker 1: half paced and walkthroughs. Yeah. Brown's practice just was weird
Speaker 1: to me, and it didn't stand out to me as
Speaker 1: much as it's funny. I didn't think that. I felt
Speaker 1: like it was a little bit more of a physical
Speaker 1: practice and maybe once they got going, it was hey,
Speaker 1: you know, the Browns are like a focal point of
Speaker 1: the NFL right now for how they're trying to switch
Speaker 1: it up with the analytics and stuff. Maybe maybe that's
Speaker 1: part of it, maybe they're trying something different. But I've
Speaker 1: watched a lot of practices in my time, and that
Speaker 1: was unique, Like just the stuff they were doing, the
Speaker 1: pace they were moving at. They had guys with like
Speaker 1: cameras down in the huddle, and you know, maybe if
Speaker 1: it's Wednesday, Thursday, Friday in the NFL during the regular season,
Speaker 1: but I was very surprised to see that at an
Speaker 1: all start. Now, Okay, well then I will I will
Speaker 1: take it as two to one. They did not like
Speaker 1: my view of practice. Like maybe the Browns are geniuses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe they will. It's almost one game. I don't want
Speaker 1: to use the word selfish. Yeah, but you know they're
Speaker 1: they don't really care about showcasing these guys for the
Speaker 1: rest of the league. Okay, you know, they want to
Speaker 1: do it their way. I'll give you a platform on
Speaker 1: the Browns. That's fine, Yeah, I'll give you. I'll give
Speaker 1: you the platform. Go ahead, and and you're you're going
Speaker 1: the right direction. You as a scout, you don't appreciate
Speaker 1: how the Browns are well practice, it's the same thing
Speaker 1: as uh, there's the Saints have been in the news
Speaker 1: this last few days. Yeah that now that's selfish on
Speaker 1: their part. But hey, it's it's trying to win football,
Speaker 1: trying to make friends. That's that's that's garbage. What the
Speaker 1: Saints are to me taking people off campus that you
Speaker 1: can't do. That is surprising to me to hear you
Speaker 1: because I'm a cheating guy. Yeah, because you're a shady
Speaker 1: guy in favor of getting an edge no matter how. No,
Speaker 1: I'm all for the I'm all for the getting the edge,
Speaker 1: but in this setting right here, I think this is
Speaker 1: and trust me, you're talking to a guy that was
Speaker 1: from the you know, fist fighting with guys at the combine.
Speaker 1: I've heard some of your tricks about how you used
Speaker 1: to get guys alone at the combine. So yeah, but
Speaker 1: but but I understand that that you're gonna you're gonna
Speaker 1: use that against me tomorrow because I was talking about it.
Speaker 1: If I was a guy, I would want to look
Speaker 1: like that. Utahs are the Connecticut safety you remember that.
Speaker 1: But no, but I'm against that, and when well, this
Speaker 1: made me for another day but I I don't like
Speaker 1: the fact that them removing players from the group just
Speaker 1: to interview. I don't like that setup. To me, it's
Speaker 1: not too don't hamper me doing my job. But to me, okay,
Speaker 1: that's not much different than what I think the Browns
Speaker 1: are doing with the practice. Okay, well, I'll let you
Speaker 1: argue that. You know it's something that but there's it's
Speaker 1: it's there's no set of rules I say the Browns
Speaker 1: have to do it this way. It's just kind of
Speaker 1: understood that's how it's been done in the past. And
Speaker 1: so this is my seventh Senior Bowl. I'm have never
Speaker 1: seen a practice run like the way the Browns do it.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's wrong, doesn't mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: the Browns should be receiving all this criticism, just different.
Speaker 1: And you think you think Scouts feel the same way
Speaker 1: you do right now watching it and the and the
Speaker 1: fans that there. You know, if you want to, if
Speaker 1: you want to tweet us, if you were watching practice
Speaker 1: today on TV on the NFL network and you kind
Speaker 1: of felt like maybe you weren't. I mean, being live
Speaker 1: is different than watching on TV, of course, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't like the Browns practice was one hundred percent. The
Speaker 1: whole two hours was nothing but walk throughs, and you
Speaker 1: know it was the first hour was mostly that and
Speaker 1: then they did some one on ones that in the
Speaker 1: trenches and you know, they did some some pit stuff.
Speaker 1: But for the majority and then the final half hour
Speaker 1: I thought was more. I mean, it did some seven
Speaker 1: on seven stuff, but even that was it wasn't didn't
Speaker 1: feel full speed. You know, it was fairly just basic stuff.
Speaker 1: And like I said, more installation for the game. To
Speaker 1: win a game. They're gonna come out here on Saturday
Speaker 1: and have a playbook and like roll over the North
Speaker 1: just it's gonna be gambling, it gonna be all right,
Speaker 1: let's little shift gears here, Dave, you had a better
Speaker 1: chance of getting some practice stuff in today. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got the one around watching the owner and a general
Speaker 1: manager and all that. But some guys, anybody in particular,
Speaker 1: you know, at certain positions, we all focus in on
Speaker 1: defensive end and cornerbacks and all this stuff. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: anybody else kind of stuck jump out at you. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sound like the football simpleton, because like what stands
Speaker 1: out when you watch these types of practices, Well, like
Speaker 1: the receivers of guy's the ability to make play the
Speaker 1: skill players. Yeah, and I think I thought several running
Speaker 1: backs had a decent day today too. Um okay, like
Speaker 1: pet Kat for the Senior Bowl. For me, is this
Speaker 1: Cooper Cup kid. Okay, it's awesome. I've watching him play.
Speaker 1: He like runs routes, he knows where to be in
Speaker 1: the defense. I don't I haven't seen him make a
Speaker 1: bad play. I haven't seen him lose to anybody yet.
Speaker 1: And in the same vein, Uh, your guy Ryan Switzer
Speaker 1: out of North Carolina's almost as good, but I think
Speaker 1: cups Cup was better from what I saw today. Switzer's
Speaker 1: really good too. Who's the Wisconsin running back Clement I
Speaker 1: thought he was really good today. He got his butt
Speaker 1: kicked in past pertection has Reddick. Yeah, he got his
Speaker 1: butt kicked, but he came back and I don't know
Speaker 1: who it was against, but he came back and bowed
Speaker 1: up on the next guys. I just all around. I
Speaker 1: thought he was really good. And then I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: take a stab in the dark because y'all are the experts,
Speaker 1: and I'm ready for you to tell me that this
Speaker 1: guy is actually terrible. But I was very intrigued by
Speaker 1: Kareem Hunt, number one senior running back. Right there, dude
Speaker 1: is an He was kicking butt today. He was running
Speaker 1: over and around people. And again it's not real football,
Speaker 1: but he was getting to the end zone on every rep.
Speaker 1: I just I was. And he's big. He's like two
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty. He's six foot two hundred and twenty five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: big dude. And I just I thought he looked great
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah. He To me, he's entering the week
Speaker 1: he was a top senior running back and leaving the
Speaker 1: week he'll be my top senior running back. Great career.
Speaker 1: I think he finished his career third and MAC history
Speaker 1: and rushing yards um, And I think you kind of
Speaker 1: nailed it with He is a bigger guy, but he's
Speaker 1: also quick, he's shifty, he can make guys miss. Very
Speaker 1: good receiver all around. I mean I gave him a
Speaker 1: three fourth grade and a player that could fight for
Speaker 1: top one hundred Statu's probably more of a fourth round guy,
Speaker 1: especially with all these junior running backs coming out. Right,
Speaker 1: But to me, the top three running backs are on
Speaker 1: that North team. North Team, Yes, Cream Hunt, right, Jamal Williams.
Speaker 1: Then is he Yeah, he's yeah, okay, So yeah, those
Speaker 1: are the top three guys for me. And I think
Speaker 1: you nailed it with Hunt and sorry, oh no, but
Speaker 1: you know, and if you're a Cowboys fan and my
Speaker 1: my job is to fight in the Cowboys, Yeah, actually
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna go there. You're sitting
Speaker 1: there going, who cares? We have the all pro rookie now,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I am very Look at your roster. You
Speaker 1: got Alfred couldn't make the active roster, Morris right active
Speaker 1: for the last month. You got Darren free agent McFadden
Speaker 1: and right Lands free agent Dunbar and poor Darius Jackson's
Speaker 1: languishing in Cleveland because of some short sighted rosters. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this though, of the guys in Dane,
Speaker 1: you're probably better because you've seen them all. I like
Speaker 1: what you're saying. But people talk about could the Cowboys
Speaker 1: use a running back? Okay, first off, or do we
Speaker 1: have that complete running back? We talked about this a
Speaker 1: lot with Zeke. You know, guy that never comes off
Speaker 1: the field, guy that plays three downs. Guys is gonna
Speaker 1: step up and hit somebody on the blitz pick up
Speaker 1: or any of these guys who were talking about really
Speaker 1: three down players. I think Kareem Hunt could be that
Speaker 1: guy and someone that might be available on day three,
Speaker 1: a player who, yeah, can hold him in pass, broke
Speaker 1: and run routes out of the backfield, and a very
Speaker 1: good rusher. So I think Kareem Hunt does fit all
Speaker 1: that criteria better than a Darius Jackson, more a lot
Speaker 1: more proven. I don't think that he might not test
Speaker 1: as well as Jackson did, so he's not going to
Speaker 1: run the four four exactly. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'll take all the tape that Hunt has, you know,
Speaker 1: because he's proven. I know what he brings to my roster.
Speaker 1: And if I can get him and say the four
Speaker 1: fourth round, that's not bad value there. No, I And
Speaker 1: you got Jackson last year in the sixth, right, So
Speaker 1: I mean I'm I'm and fourth on I mean, you
Speaker 1: can't predict this stuff right now. Fourth sounds too rich
Speaker 1: for me for a running back when you have Ezekiel Elliott. Sure, right,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm very interested in finding a young guy
Speaker 1: who can be behind him on the depth chart. And
Speaker 1: you know, fifth round priority free agent. We kind of
Speaker 1: thought that was gonna be Darius Jackson. They carried him
Speaker 1: for twelve weeks should be Darius Jackson. Yeah. Something to
Speaker 1: watch for with this draft class is the amount of
Speaker 1: running backs in this class. We had so many juniors
Speaker 1: come out that some of these guys can be pushed down.
Speaker 1: So Kareem Hunt, who have a three fourth grade on
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe he's there in the fifth and one
Speaker 1: of these other guys that you know have grades in
Speaker 1: the third round, fourth round, fifth round might be available
Speaker 1: a round or two later just because the influx of
Speaker 1: running backs. Not everyone's gonna draft a running back, and
Speaker 1: so these guys we pushed down the board a little bit.
Speaker 1: Is there any running back that you liked better than
Speaker 1: Elliott in this current draft I'm talking about, so the
Speaker 1: Elliot would have been your time. Now. I have stuck
Speaker 1: true to this since the start, since the summer. There's
Speaker 1: so much hype about this draft class. Dalvin Cook, Leonard
Speaker 1: Fournette great players, all right, no doubt, there's so much
Speaker 1: to like about him. But if Zeke was in this
Speaker 1: draft class, he would be the top running back in
Speaker 1: terms of migrating system. Would some teams disagree? Probably? Some
Speaker 1: teams might prefer a Cook or a Fournette for me,
Speaker 1: give me Elliott, the guys they're gonna be on the
Speaker 1: field that I know can be on the field all
Speaker 1: three downs and make an impact. But Dan, I just
Speaker 1: heard you say something interesting that that some running backs
Speaker 1: might get pushed down, right, because but is that the
Speaker 1: Dane Bruglar evaluation of of well, you don't need a
Speaker 1: running back where teams might have seen what's going out
Speaker 1: on now with Ezekiel Elliott and said, whoa, whoa, wait
Speaker 1: a minute. Now, if teams are gonna play light fronts
Speaker 1: and be up the field players and we're gonna hammer
Speaker 1: you with a two hundred and twenty five pound back,
Speaker 1: could we see a resurgence of the running back where
Speaker 1: people value them more. Yeah, I think that is. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a copycat league and everyone's gonna want to look
Speaker 1: forward to match kind of with the pitch team's running
Speaker 1: the football. But I think more so just the underclassman
Speaker 1: that came out the juniors, right, the influx of all
Speaker 1: those talented guys, A lot of those guys are gonna
Speaker 1: go in the in the top one hundred guys like
Speaker 1: you know some J. P. Ryan and Deonta Foreman McCaffrey
Speaker 1: and mixing problem will Curtis Samuel. I mean you can
Speaker 1: go on and on. I like mixing, by the way,
Speaker 1: and I understand just talking on field him on the
Speaker 1: field stuff right there. He's my second best back. These
Speaker 1: guys are gonna be pushed down the board, and so
Speaker 1: you might be able to get good value fourth fifth
Speaker 1: round where kind of well, no, when waving you way off,
Speaker 1: I'm just getting go ahead kind of what Hellman was
Speaker 1: saying about the fact that fourth round does sound a
Speaker 1: little rich for a running back for this team. But
Speaker 1: when these guys get pushed down a little bit, fourth
Speaker 1: fifth round value might be too good to pass up.
Speaker 1: Don't window dress your board. No, you're not gonna win
Speaker 1: to dress the board, all right. Let me ask you
Speaker 1: this though, for this team, though, would you take a
Speaker 1: safety in the fourth round or would you take a
Speaker 1: running back? All things being equal, Yeah, I'd rather have
Speaker 1: the safety. I think you have to. I mean, ideally,
Speaker 1: Ezekiel Elliot's not coming off the field for me, I know.
Speaker 1: I mean he came off the field way too much
Speaker 1: as a rookie. Agree. I hopefully as he get grows
Speaker 1: in matures that happens less and less often. So I mean,
Speaker 1: unless unless something wonky happens. I assume the safety is
Speaker 1: the better bet for this team. Yeah, you can find
Speaker 1: running backs. I mean it's always you can, which is
Speaker 1: ironic because we were pounding the table to yeah, you
Speaker 1: just were a guy like Darius Jackson was you know,
Speaker 1: he was out there for the teams to pick him up.
Speaker 1: I mean, this team almost got Thomas listening to you
Speaker 1: guys talk about all these runners and then you just
Speaker 1: you know, well, it just depends on the Literally, Zeke
Speaker 1: and the Cowboys was like a lightning strike. It was
Speaker 1: the perfect blend of a team that shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: picking that high, that had an amazing offensive line, and
Speaker 1: great we do this. Then for the teams like for
Speaker 1: the teams that do need a running back, the teams
Speaker 1: that we saw that we're running back poor this year,
Speaker 1: the Giants looked like a team that it was running
Speaker 1: back poor, teams like Green Bay that was using wide receivers.
Speaker 1: And again this is for the folks out there they're fans.
Speaker 1: I think I think you're gonna see and I always
Speaker 1: defer to Day on stuff like this. I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna see a solid amount of running backs taken in
Speaker 1: the first round of this year's draft, like maybe even
Speaker 1: as many as four, which sounds like a boatload. But
Speaker 1: I'll be surprised if it's coming as high as the
Speaker 1: Cowboys pick last year. Like I know a lot of
Speaker 1: people love to mock Fournette to Carolina at like eight.
Speaker 1: Even that seems kind of rich to me. Somebody move
Speaker 1: up and get it back and less if you don't
Speaker 1: have the resources aka the line or a quarterback who
Speaker 1: scares defenses, I don't know that it's worth going that high.
Speaker 1: I think we'll see Fournette and Delvin Cook go somewhere
Speaker 1: in the top twenty, both of them land. You know,
Speaker 1: Indianapolis is a possible fit. I think Baltimore, Caroline, I
Speaker 1: think Carolina. Yeah, definitely haven't go in that direction. Let's
Speaker 1: say it's not possible. I'm saying, yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think Zeke being so good makes anybody rethink
Speaker 1: the idea that running backs is not a great return
Speaker 1: on investment. That's all I'm saying. But I do think
Speaker 1: these running backs are so good that I think you'll
Speaker 1: see more than usually. Who would be the four that
Speaker 1: you think could go first? Besides it too, there's the
Speaker 1: two and then Mccaffreycaffrey is an option towards the back
Speaker 1: end and then between a throw. And I'm spitballing here,
Speaker 1: but I mean Mixon's out there for somebody foreman. Maybe Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's way too rich for my blood. But I know
Speaker 1: I first, if Mixon didn't have the it didn't have
Speaker 1: the off the field stuff, would he be a first
Speaker 1: down first round, would be a top fifteen player. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: but you can't ignore it. But if he should have
Speaker 1: gone top fifteen, maybe somebody's willing how many years removed?
Speaker 1: All we own this by the way, so it'll be
Speaker 1: three and three three years, So it'll it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a fascinating test case with Joe Mixon because so this
Speaker 1: is something this isn't like, you know, with all of
Speaker 1: a sudden we see video with offensive town with the
Speaker 1: gas mask on the day of the draft, it still
Speaker 1: goes fourteen. Yeah, it's but I know that marijuana is different.
Speaker 1: It's three years removed. It's coming on three years removed,
Speaker 1: and that's I mean, he'll get drafted higher than I
Speaker 1: think he should. Very likely he'll get drafted I think
Speaker 1: somewhere in the top one hundred. I think third round
Speaker 1: is my guests where I think he'll be drafted, but
Speaker 1: people will have him off the board, you think too, Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I probably. I mean were they scared, Well,
Speaker 1: they just don't want the headache of dealing with a player.
Speaker 1: I don't think PR nightmare. I don't think scared it
Speaker 1: Michael Vick a worset PR nightmare, Michael, that happened a
Speaker 1: decade after you got draft. The bottom line in the end,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that the Eagles took him. On bottom
Speaker 1: line for the NFL. If you're general manager, you got
Speaker 1: to win games. Okay. That's so you're line one, right,
Speaker 1: and so you're not really measure It's not your job
Speaker 1: to be the moral police here, right, but you have
Speaker 1: to measure whether or not he's a fit for the
Speaker 1: culture of your locker room, and then if whether or
Speaker 1: not you're willing to I know this sounds, you know,
Speaker 1: not exactly PC, but you know you have to understand
Speaker 1: if you're if you want to deal with that PC
Speaker 1: with a PR nightmare, because as soon as your team
Speaker 1: drafts him, there's going to be the video is gonna
Speaker 1: be all over the place, and so you have to
Speaker 1: deal with that. And so you have to have a
Speaker 1: strong general manager, a strong ownership this and everybody already
Speaker 1: seen the video. Sure, but it's going to be played
Speaker 1: and replayed and replayed over and over again. Perception is
Speaker 1: reality and time, and it's in the league the way
Speaker 1: it is right now. I don't think that goes away, period,
Speaker 1: especially in the court of public opinion, which is what
Speaker 1: matters to a lot. It should I'm not saying it shouldn't,
Speaker 1: but that matters even more so than the you know,
Speaker 1: than the situation. What Tyreek Hill did was worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what he knows when what he did happened a
Speaker 1: lot it was a lot more relevant, you know, in
Speaker 1: terms of chronologically when it happened, so, you know, but
Speaker 1: he still was drafted in the fifth round and right now,
Speaker 1: no one's really talking about that when he's scoring touchdowns
Speaker 1: and he's a candidate for Rookie of the Year. There
Speaker 1: are some strong general managers in this league, and there's
Speaker 1: some strong coaches that will take a shot at that kid. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing that's working for Mixon is this is how
Speaker 1: about Seattle. Well, look, the thing that's working for him
Speaker 1: is this isn't like a known you know, a guy
Speaker 1: that has a lot of stuff on his rap sheet.
Speaker 1: You know, this is kind of an isolated inter's seen
Speaker 1: it with our own eyes. The Oklahoma coaching staff speaks
Speaker 1: very highly of who he is as a person. I
Speaker 1: think he'll interview well and you know, so he has
Speaker 1: that working for him. But still it's a hot button issue.
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know, how do we get on
Speaker 1: this top Yeah, I don't know, but actually just and
Speaker 1: I needed the help of Google. I'll be totally honest,
Speaker 1: but Kamara is a guy that I like. He made
Speaker 1: my top fifty board and foreman. And then just by
Speaker 1: virtue of the fact that I don't even know where
Speaker 1: he would play. Curtis Samuel probably not, but like that's
Speaker 1: a name that's gonna that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: these types of players that will be there. And then
Speaker 1: that doesn't even include Mixon, who where he goes entirely
Speaker 1: depends on how comfortable as a team we just I mean,
Speaker 1: he'd be a top twenty pick if there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: I got on this subject. Because you didn't like the
Speaker 1: way North practice to or the South practice today, Well,
Speaker 1: I think it all goes back to the fact that
Speaker 1: there's so many running back. Tell me then okay, well
Speaker 1: tell me then, okay, tell me then who you liked
Speaker 1: if you want to get if you want to get
Speaker 1: away from the topic. But it's something that general managers
Speaker 1: think about it. If you're scared, we can talk about
Speaker 1: something else. Dane, all right, let's go and talk about
Speaker 1: the North practice. No, I'm fine with it. I just
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's something that we know when
Speaker 1: we talk about investigate and educate. It's something that general
Speaker 1: managers have to think about. This is this sounds just
Speaker 1: like the Frank Clark conversation we had two years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he got drafted, and he got drafted higher than
Speaker 1: I think he should have gotten drafted based on what
Speaker 1: he did. But he's a good pass rusher, he's doing
Speaker 1: good stuff in Seattle, so and most of the time
Speaker 1: these guys wind up living up to it on the field. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: in my opinion's gonna have a chip on his shoulder.
Speaker 1: That is why Joe Mixon will get drafted, and like
Speaker 1: he'll get drafted higher than I think you should be.
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's hard to predict. It's hard to
Speaker 1: predict because just like all I mean, the biggest cliche
Speaker 1: and draft talk All it takes is one. All it
Speaker 1: takes is general management. Let me the ending with this.
Speaker 1: If I was on the if I was if if
Speaker 1: you were on a club and they made the selection,
Speaker 1: would you you would fight against it? I would be
Speaker 1: against it. Would you fight against it? I mean when
Speaker 1: not drafting at all, I wouldn't want him. I would
Speaker 1: draft him. Yes, at a certain point, yes, I mean
Speaker 1: I don't think that an incident for a player who
Speaker 1: the incident happened when he just turned eighteen years old, right,
Speaker 1: And I don't think an incident like that should keep
Speaker 1: him from having a career at what he's good at, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't think that should stop him. Now.
Speaker 1: If people want to be mad at the judicial system
Speaker 1: and the lack of penalties that came down, then that's fine,
Speaker 1: but that's you know, I don't I don't know. At
Speaker 1: certain point, yes, I would draft him, Okay, I just
Speaker 1: want to make sure. Okay, talk about me. Talk about
Speaker 1: some of the guys that you you saw today and
Speaker 1: you and you did a thing for on Twitter following
Speaker 1: you at DP Burglar. You always list your top five
Speaker 1: that had practice, so you can go ahead. You got
Speaker 1: ten guys you really like today, We'll start with the North.
Speaker 1: I saw Reddick at the Temple. Linebacker really stood out,
Speaker 1: and this is a guy I liked a lot throughout
Speaker 1: the season. He came out at number thirty eight on
Speaker 1: my initial top fifty board. He's so athletic and it's
Speaker 1: a former walk on. They didn't know where to play him.
Speaker 1: I try him a corner. They played him all over.
Speaker 1: He was kind of an edge guy, and he's six
Speaker 1: one and a half two hundred and thirty pounds. Sure
Speaker 1: doesn't have the length that you want to necessarily be
Speaker 1: a defensive end. So where's he gonna play here? He's
Speaker 1: listen as an inside linebacker, So you know, I'm really
Speaker 1: eager to see how he does holding him in coverage
Speaker 1: and is moving around, and he got you know, allowed
Speaker 1: some spacing at times, a little wild when he was
Speaker 1: covering running backs out of the backfield, but he has
Speaker 1: the athleticism and make up for that. I saw a
Speaker 1: couple of times we knocked balls down when the ball
Speaker 1: went to the flat, he was in position to actually
Speaker 1: and then and then when there was a contested catch, right,
Speaker 1: you saw him punching at the football to try and
Speaker 1: knock and that's exactly what I'm talking about. He lost
Speaker 1: or he gave up some spacing at the top of
Speaker 1: that route, sure, but he had the closing burst to
Speaker 1: make it up and knock the ball down at the
Speaker 1: catch point. So yeah, his athleticism continue to stand out.
Speaker 1: And what I really liked what the North team did
Speaker 1: is they also let him rush right and use them
Speaker 1: on something. He got underneath the business Waddy the pit tackle.
Speaker 1: He got underneath them that dipped at natural flexibility and
Speaker 1: got to the pocket. So I still don't know one
Speaker 1: hundred percent exactly where you're gonna play him. I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be a stand up off the ball linebacker,
Speaker 1: but you can get creative with him because he can
Speaker 1: rush the pastor and you do a lot of things
Speaker 1: without athleticism. Well, i'll tell you what, I totally agree
Speaker 1: with you watching him play. I had not seen him
Speaker 1: in and uh on my article on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I encourage you to read it the practice notes. He
Speaker 1: was a guy. Gave you credit for that because you did.
Speaker 1: You did have him in your in your top five
Speaker 1: good player and uh, I need to need to take
Speaker 1: a look uh anybody else though, I mean I know
Speaker 1: you had a list of guys kind of working through
Speaker 1: Cooper cup Uh, you know we mentioned and it's it's
Speaker 1: hard not to like him because and I think the
Speaker 1: two words that that really pop with him as route savvy.
Speaker 1: He's so good at open creating that space, giving the
Speaker 1: quarterback an open window. He and everyone's gonna, I think,
Speaker 1: well not everyone, but a lot of people are gonna
Speaker 1: be a little scared off at the combine when he
Speaker 1: runs a four five five or you know, doesn't test
Speaker 1: off the charts. And I wrote this in my practice report.
Speaker 1: But he's a better football player than athlete. And let's
Speaker 1: not overthink it. That's not a bad thing. At the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we're not running track here. We're
Speaker 1: playing football, right. You know you want athleticism, don't get
Speaker 1: me wrong. You want athletes to go out there, but
Speaker 1: you want football players, and that's what this kid is.
Speaker 1: You look at the production, the most prolific wide receiver
Speaker 1: at the FCS level. He leads all divisions FBSFCS Division
Speaker 1: two division. This is not just a try hard guy. No,
Speaker 1: this is not This is not a just a hey
Speaker 1: he's a guy. He's got limited athletic ability and I
Speaker 1: mean that he's far because, and I'll prove your point.
Speaker 1: I was watching, you know, Eastern Washington play against Youngtown's Steak,
Speaker 1: because that's watching Rivers play, and you know what, they're
Speaker 1: playing game, playoff game, and they're playing it up there
Speaker 1: in Eastern Washington and it's it's sl freezing cold, it's
Speaker 1: snow and it's all you know, you could see the
Speaker 1: conditions just look terrible. And who's making plays in the game.
Speaker 1: They keep throwing the ball and he keeps making plays.
Speaker 1: Give me a guy that in all conditions can go
Speaker 1: make plays. It's a little bit like and again out
Speaker 1: there'll say, oh, you're comparing him to a white wide receiver.
Speaker 1: I'm not Jordy Nelson, Jordison a guy that played in
Speaker 1: bad weather and goes and makes a play. But something
Speaker 1: too that. I really like what you just said though,
Speaker 1: because I was joking in the press box that this
Speaker 1: poor guy is gonna get compared to Welker and at
Speaker 1: Beasley and all these other like try hard white wide
Speaker 1: receivers who don't impress you when you're staying that, he's
Speaker 1: not like that right here, and I think Jordy Nelson
Speaker 1: is a way better comparison, even his fast I don't think, yeah,
Speaker 1: fact rout, Saddie, go get the football, throw the cape off,
Speaker 1: mud all over your body and arms, and you're still
Speaker 1: making um land zero line. I was reading his write
Speaker 1: up on the guy, and I thought his comparison was
Speaker 1: really good too. I am a homer, I always admit,
Speaker 1: but he compared in Jarvis Landry and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see he can go inside and out. He's
Speaker 1: probably not as athletic as Jarvis, but he's got great
Speaker 1: hands and he knows that was four or five five
Speaker 1: speed basically Landry. Yeah, but no he For those that
Speaker 1: want to know more about Cooper Cup, I posted my
Speaker 1: report on Twitter, so check out my timeline there. I
Speaker 1: retweeted that too for you by the way. There. So yeah,
Speaker 1: Cooper Cup, they played a PAC twelve opponent every single
Speaker 1: year Eastern Washington against those four opponents the last four years.
Speaker 1: Here is stats against the PAC twelve opponents. Forty catches,
Speaker 1: seven hundred and sixteen yards, eleven touchdowns. Yeah. So when
Speaker 1: he did go up against FBS competition, it's not like
Speaker 1: he disappeared and you know he's yeah, he's I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm watching this guy, and I'm like, bring bring him
Speaker 1: to the Cowboys in the second or third round. That's
Speaker 1: fine with me, He'll take it. He's a guy who
Speaker 1: I think is going to be best in the slot
Speaker 1: because his ability to manipulate space where you know a
Speaker 1: lot of incutting route, a lot of posts. He knows
Speaker 1: how to get open in space, and so he can
Speaker 1: do those things as a slot receiver. Doesn't mean he
Speaker 1: camp on the outside as a number two. I think
Speaker 1: he's best inside as a slot guy. Yeah, anybody else
Speaker 1: you got on that list? Who else do I have here?
Speaker 1: Um Moten the Western Michigan tacol I thought it had
Speaker 1: a nice day the whole week. I thought he's been
Speaker 1: pretty good. Terrell Basham the Ohio pass Rush. Yeah, interesting guy.
Speaker 1: I wrote about him today because I like what you
Speaker 1: were talking about it. I got to stop. There was
Speaker 1: like there was like one It's like he's got that
Speaker 1: kind of a right in body, but it was able
Speaker 1: to get some production off the left and the right side. Russian.
Speaker 1: I kind of liked that what I saw from him.
Speaker 1: Who had the fight in the South practice? That was
Speaker 1: a kid from Miami. Yeah, Rayshawn Jenkins and uh the
Speaker 1: our Grambling guy Grambling William J. Williams. Yeah, I went
Speaker 1: at it. I always like to see that. I can't
Speaker 1: get the blood pumping, you know, get after it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll tell these people what you're trying to throw out
Speaker 1: A guy I like and I wrote about I wrote
Speaker 1: about him today, and I will tell you who I
Speaker 1: wrote about because I like the fact that I didn't
Speaker 1: see it from Cameron Sutton yesterday. I didn't see greatness
Speaker 1: from Cameron Sutton. And I had a lot of people
Speaker 1: asked me about him. I thought he was just okay.
Speaker 1: Then the Browns did me a favor today. They played
Speaker 1: him It's safe and they and you know what, he
Speaker 1: got to cover O J. Howard and he wasn't terrible
Speaker 1: doing it. O J. Howard has been running through you know,
Speaker 1: been unstoppable, you know, catching these Yeah, he is by far,
Speaker 1: he's the best player here. But what I liked though
Speaker 1: about Sutton though, is they tried him in a different position.
Speaker 1: He was playing as a nickel almost like a nickel linebacker,
Speaker 1: so they put him down. They thought he was physical
Speaker 1: enough to be the nickel linebacker, played him some bit safety.
Speaker 1: They played him in the slot, and they played him
Speaker 1: outside a corner. So if you're talking about a guy
Speaker 1: who I didn't, I'm like, okay, I'm not noticing you.
Speaker 1: Now today, all of a sudden, they put him in
Speaker 1: a different spot and he looks like a different football player.
Speaker 1: So I didn't think, like the tape at Tennessee was
Speaker 1: all that great. No. We watched that together, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we it was just not that impressive, and I was thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: I had him down at a certain level. But now
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, man, if he can do some of
Speaker 1: these things that we were talking, and we'll get a
Speaker 1: chance to watch the Senior Bowl practice and I'll show
Speaker 1: You'll point out to you at times when you know
Speaker 1: when Howard was running across the field and who was
Speaker 1: chasing him and who was trying to be in position,
Speaker 1: so you know, keep an eye on him. Though as
Speaker 1: as that type of guy, I did like him a
Speaker 1: lot and I liked what I saw from him in
Speaker 1: that way. So anybody else, though, they kind of stand
Speaker 1: dow anybody else to jump out on you. One other
Speaker 1: guy that I wanted to mention from the North practice
Speaker 1: is John new Smith, the Florida international tight end. I
Speaker 1: think we talked about the South team and all those
Speaker 1: tight ends like Howard and Ingram and Gerald ever right,
Speaker 1: but it was John new Smith on the North team.
Speaker 1: He deserves mentioned. Not quite as as good as those
Speaker 1: top three, but he's close. And he doesn't have the
Speaker 1: traditional build of a tight end yea six h two
Speaker 1: six exactly, but he did okay. As a blocker he
Speaker 1: held his own and then as a route runner, very
Speaker 1: good release off the on, sharp footwork to get in
Speaker 1: and out of his brakes, create a little bit of separation,
Speaker 1: very athletic tight end. I think John new Smith is
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit of a riser throughout
Speaker 1: this process. What you think about when we talked. I
Speaker 1: talked a lot yesterday about Jordan Lewis. I thought he
Speaker 1: struggled a little bit more today then I did. Mean.
Speaker 1: I saw guys go instead of being up on him
Speaker 1: like he was yesterday, felt like and the referees were
Speaker 1: here today too, saw more flags, more holding, more stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and a little bit kind of like, whoa
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Maybe he is what he I mean
Speaker 1: we talk about he's not going to be this or
Speaker 1: this or this, but he you know, he was a
Speaker 1: guy that yesterday showed something, but today I was a
Speaker 1: little bit disappointed in the way he played. Coaches spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time with him, kind of going over
Speaker 1: some things at the Bear Staff. They had a lot
Speaker 1: of time to talk with with with Jordan Lewis with
Speaker 1: a couple of mistakes he was making, giving up some
Speaker 1: some catches here and there. So not a great day.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a terrible day for him, but wasn't as
Speaker 1: good as yesterday for Jordan Lewis. Can you tell me
Speaker 1: about Isaac Rochelle then from Notre Dame shifting gears? You know,
Speaker 1: I think he's I think he looks like a three
Speaker 1: four defensive end to me, right and you know that
Speaker 1: that guy could play the head up the five, play
Speaker 1: with the hands two gaps him at two nineties he was,
Speaker 1: he was right at two eighty two six three two
Speaker 1: eighty two. He's got according to the Bill parcels measurements.
Speaker 1: If you look for a base end in the three
Speaker 1: four defense. Bill was always like, give me the guy
Speaker 1: that was, say, six six two eighty you know that
Speaker 1: that type of guy. But this guy, this kid right
Speaker 1: here's six four, two hundred and eighty two pounds. Though
Speaker 1: when you saw him at Notre Dame was there anything?
Speaker 1: Was am I? Am I going down the right path
Speaker 1: with him? Or am I? It's funny you watch the
Speaker 1: right tape, you get really excited about Rochelle, then watch
Speaker 1: another tape and you're I don't know, I mean, so
Speaker 1: really inconsistent from tape to tape. But uh, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to like there, There's no question about it. I
Speaker 1: personally like Wormling the Michigan kid, right. I like him
Speaker 1: a lot better at the casement, so I too a
Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, And then I mean he's to me,
Speaker 1: he was a defensive end. He's over right, around three
Speaker 1: hundred pounds, right, so he looks like it looks more
Speaker 1: like a three technique. But to me, wormleys as best
Speaker 1: as a base end. Keep him outside five technique or
Speaker 1: he could be outside in a four to three. So
Speaker 1: Wormly impressed me more. But Rochelle, there is something there.
Speaker 1: Gotta figure him out because the thought, okay, remember that
Speaker 1: all the Notre Dame guys who used to do in
Speaker 1: the tape was always inconsistent with those guys, and now
Speaker 1: they're all playing late. Okay, we're gonna take our first
Speaker 1: break in the in this in this show. When we
Speaker 1: get back, make sure you hit David Hellman on Twitter
Speaker 1: at the Draft Show, and then we're gonna get to
Speaker 1: all your questions here and we'll continue this conversation from Mobile, Alabama.
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Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Showboys the clock back here for the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. And I Dave, I didn't I almost say
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Speaker 1: that's been falling along with us on the show. You know,
Speaker 1: it's you don't understand how how much of a difficult task.
Speaker 1: This is Ken Garrison setting all this up, and Internet
Speaker 1: sometimes not very good at where you're at. If the
Speaker 1: if the you know, we're we're always doing the best
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Speaker 1: I want to get to that staple that Ed Cahill
Speaker 1: came up with many years ago. David Hellman, known as
Speaker 1: Twitter on the twenty and would get everybody an opportunity
Speaker 1: to get the questions into you, Eddie. Eddie actually tweeted
Speaker 1: me earlier in the show, so he maybe he's listening
Speaker 1: to shout out to you, Eddie. Uh. Jeff Perkins, who
Speaker 1: is wearing an Aggie hat in his avatar, wants he
Speaker 1: wants to know about Justin Evans. He's how and how
Speaker 1: is he doing this week? You know, Yeah, he's doing
Speaker 1: okay this week. Um, he's fast, he's a very very
Speaker 1: good athlete and he'll move around a little bit. He's
Speaker 1: a little undersize, which you want for a safety came
Speaker 1: in one, so yeah, not doesn't have the prototypical size
Speaker 1: that you want necessarily, but he'll come up and hitch you,
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. The mistackles on tape drive
Speaker 1: me nuts with Justin Evans. Um that was kind of
Speaker 1: an A and M staple in their secondary it was,
Speaker 1: but he was asked to be more of a strong
Speaker 1: for the Aggies. What if he's more of a free
Speaker 1: and he can use the use that range, you know,
Speaker 1: play single high and I don't know, I I'm weary
Speaker 1: about Justin Evans just because the mistackles and mistakes drove
Speaker 1: me nuts when I when I watched his tape. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ability there. I think you can
Speaker 1: coach a little bit more out of him. Uh it's
Speaker 1: a player who he was only two years at A
Speaker 1: and M. He was a Juco kid, So I think
Speaker 1: there's still more you can get out of him. Very
Speaker 1: interesting to see where he ends up in terms of
Speaker 1: draft value. Is you need to be a second rounder
Speaker 1: or be more of a third round Now he ends
Speaker 1: up somewhere at day two. I like. I like what
Speaker 1: you're talking about though with the movement though, I think
Speaker 1: they played him a little bit deeper and let him
Speaker 1: do a little bit the more of the range stuff.
Speaker 1: I think you're onto something there. But yeah, second or
Speaker 1: third that's kind of where you're gonna look at him.
Speaker 1: I love our fans or anybody who listens to this
Speaker 1: show is smart. I feel like and I love Chris
Speaker 1: jumping onto the trend bandwagon early because he went We
Speaker 1: talked a lot about Jake, but he wants to know
Speaker 1: about Gamblee type prospects for the second round, specifically because
Speaker 1: it's basically accepted by Cowboys fanswere that we're gonna do
Speaker 1: something Lacky in the second round, So predict that that's
Speaker 1: that's when it could be. That's when you get a
Speaker 1: general manager that's not going to fire him. Our owner
Speaker 1: that's not gonna fred the general manager when you need
Speaker 1: to when you need to pay for that retirement lake House,
Speaker 1: you'll make those say picks you. You won't be like
Speaker 1: Brian Brouss. You won't take mix and you'll take somebody else.
Speaker 1: So is there somebody I feel like we've talked about
Speaker 1: but a decent bit all ready. But is there anybody
Speaker 1: out there that kind of strikes this course? Let me
Speaker 1: let me throw a scenario out there. Though I don't
Speaker 1: think that O. J. Howard gets to Dallas at twenty eight,
Speaker 1: but you need a tight end. We talked about several
Speaker 1: tight ends that were involved at the Senior Bowl. We
Speaker 1: think that are not bad options. But but do you
Speaker 1: if Howard doesn't get to you would plan B to
Speaker 1: B too? All right? Now, if we don't get him,
Speaker 1: plan B is too okay, second round? Would you go
Speaker 1: into a draft thinking that? Would you go into I don't.
Speaker 1: If we don't get Howard at twenty eight, then let's
Speaker 1: turn around take the best player we can at twenty
Speaker 1: eight and hope again that we can get but at
Speaker 1: the back end of the second Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: that'd be. That'd be the plan right there. You know,
Speaker 1: Jake but's an interesting player because he's not great in
Speaker 1: anyone area, but it's pretty good across the board as
Speaker 1: a blocker, receiver, route runner. Gotta does everything right, not
Speaker 1: at an elite level. You factor in the ACL now
Speaker 1: and we'll have the way to the combine and figure
Speaker 1: out what's going on and you know the rehab. But
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's the best answer to the
Speaker 1: question about that second round guy who right, you have
Speaker 1: plenty of questions about in terms of you know, medicals
Speaker 1: and maybe not just the tape, but he would fit.
Speaker 1: I don't know. This is a strong tight end class.
Speaker 1: So if they don't get Howard in the first or
Speaker 1: even a button the second, there are plenty of other
Speaker 1: options you can go. I think the way their board's
Speaker 1: gonna set, I think it's gonna be Howard in the first.
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna not stay parcels again, to use
Speaker 1: his line, They're not gonna stack those tight ends in
Speaker 1: there like club sandwiches. It's not gonna be you know
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have that a little Yeah, you're gonna
Speaker 1: space it out. So we have a buch of grilled
Speaker 1: cheese sandwiches. Let me, you know, just flat grilled cheese sandwich.
Speaker 1: Let me throw a hot take at you then. I mean,
Speaker 1: as far as I know, Jake Budd is not dealing
Speaker 1: with nerve damage like Jayleen in this day and age.
Speaker 1: For me, even I mean, even though you know he
Speaker 1: probably won't be much of a fact actor as a rookie,
Speaker 1: at least not right away, is an acl enough to
Speaker 1: scare a team off from taking him higher than that?
Speaker 1: Just I mean, knowing that he'll make a full recovery,
Speaker 1: he'll be fine. Well, what are the teams that use
Speaker 1: these tight ends nowadays? Yeah, you know that team's gonna
Speaker 1: be picking behind you if he's that good. You know
Speaker 1: you gotta watch. Like you say, you were worried about
Speaker 1: New New England. You know, everybody was scared about New
Speaker 1: England going to get Jayalen Smith ahead of Dallas. They
Speaker 1: weren't going to do that, but would they go do
Speaker 1: it for a tight end? You know, that's where you know,
Speaker 1: would would they get you know, would they go do that?
Speaker 1: Especially if they lose more tell us Bennett right, that
Speaker 1: kind of a situation. So I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that's a thought that's to me, and I don't
Speaker 1: know all the injured guys. When we get further down
Speaker 1: the road, that's kind of figure out who the injured
Speaker 1: guys are, because we'll get to the combine and there'll
Speaker 1: be somebody that's got something wrong with them and it
Speaker 1: will drive him down the board. We need to save
Speaker 1: that question for maybe at the combine or even later
Speaker 1: to find it. Absolutely, I hate I'm sorry, Dane. No,
Speaker 1: for all we know. Toach McKinley, that might be a more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we'll wait if if Mixing sitting there when they
Speaker 1: picking the back end of the second round. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I would be happy about it, but
Speaker 1: you can't do it. We're not getting back into that subject, Cup, Cup.
Speaker 1: I don't blame you, Cup, except when we talked about
Speaker 1: Cupe times already. Yeah. Yeah, going against Desmond King today, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Cup got the better of him, Sure he did. Is
Speaker 1: that more of a positive for Cup or a negative
Speaker 1: for King? Do I feel like it's both? I mean
Speaker 1: you have to take it that way. It's it's tough
Speaker 1: for these dbs in this type of setting. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're going one on one against some pretty good
Speaker 1: receivers and King's not the fastest guy to be get with.
Speaker 1: It's not really his game. But uh, you know, we
Speaker 1: both think he's a safety. I think he's a safety,
Speaker 1: if you know, and and if it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where you see stuff like that, I wish that
Speaker 1: they would try him some at safety. I thought there
Speaker 1: was a little period we were doing, the walk through
Speaker 1: period where they put him at safe you just to
Speaker 1: kind of give him a little bit different look, and
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Okay, they're gonna play it safety. So
Speaker 1: I get to see this a little bit, but didn't
Speaker 1: get to. But I think he's a safety, I really
Speaker 1: really do. And he's separating from everybody's cup cups not cups,
Speaker 1: not him and the North Carolina kid are They're having
Speaker 1: a hard time covering those two guys. Gotten a couple
Speaker 1: of questions with my grandma, and I believe you talked
Speaker 1: you touched on him in your notebook tonight, h West
Speaker 1: Virginia Cornerbacks talked about you think you kind of always
Speaker 1: saw him as like a press man corner to me,
Speaker 1: that's what he is, right. That's when you watch his
Speaker 1: West Virginia tabe. That's when he was at his best.
Speaker 1: When he was up at the line of scrimmage. Now
Speaker 1: he would miss sometimes with his jam, but when he
Speaker 1: did connect and he was able to, you know, disrupt
Speaker 1: the route, get guys uncomfortable, you know, that really paid
Speaker 1: off for him. I mean, he was the best player
Speaker 1: in that West Virginia defense sure his entire senior year.
Speaker 1: And he's got a great backstory. This is a guy
Speaker 1: who wanted to be an NBA star, uh and you
Speaker 1: know as a great name first that. Yeah, as high
Speaker 1: school went on, he kind of realized, you know what
Speaker 1: football might be my best bet. Goes to Nasau Community
Speaker 1: College in New York, and you know, a guy who
Speaker 1: had to have his own apartment and he was taking
Speaker 1: the bus to school every day. He did that for
Speaker 1: three years, right, red shirted there and then played two
Speaker 1: years there before he went to West Virginia. He was
Speaker 1: a backup as a junior, and then as a senior
Speaker 1: really kind of elevated his game and showed that, you know,
Speaker 1: I belong on the NFL map, on the NFL radar,
Speaker 1: and he's done, he's gone or come to hear the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. And I don't think he's looked out of place. No,
Speaker 1: he hasn't. I thought there was a couple of different
Speaker 1: times you watched him today on if you happen to
Speaker 1: do that. On the coverage, he jumped some routes he
Speaker 1: was in position, and I thought instead of being coverage, no,
Speaker 1: I mean off coverage. Yeah, And so he was able,
Speaker 1: especially down in the red zone. There were a couple
Speaker 1: of times where he was able to undercut a route,
Speaker 1: you know, and he was able to go in front.
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about a guy that's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he's six two two h four, that's a long guy.
Speaker 1: And I saw a couple of things that that made
Speaker 1: me think, well, maybe this guy, you know, with that
Speaker 1: kind of length, that kind of range, if he if
Speaker 1: he plays with that kind of awareness too, is ability
Speaker 1: to take away rounds, you might have a guy there.
Speaker 1: I initially kind of thought he was like a fourth
Speaker 1: round guy, and then I was and I think, well,
Speaker 1: maybe I have him too low. I gave him. I
Speaker 1: gave him a three four based on tape, but four
Speaker 1: it seemed like Seattle or one of these teams that
Speaker 1: really value that length that you talk about the miss
Speaker 1: right those guys, Maybe you coach him up to where
Speaker 1: he doesn't miss. Yeah, wouldn't be surprised at all if
Speaker 1: he goes even higher than that, just based on measurable
Speaker 1: raw measurable exactly. I know the answer to this for me,
Speaker 1: But for y'all, David wants to know, if O. J.
Speaker 1: Howard is there and you can get up and get
Speaker 1: him with the third round pick, would you do it?
Speaker 1: Would you move your third to get there? That's like,
Speaker 1: that's like a fourth round pick. That's good point. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you're probably jump into like, I don't know, nineteen twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one. Yeah, that is interesting. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you're talking about a pick that's very close to being
Speaker 1: out of the time. I don't I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: would would. I don't think anybody would kill the cows.
Speaker 1: That's a terrible word to use. I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: would fault, would fault that's a better word. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being educated. I don't think anybody would fault the
Speaker 1: Cowboys for an aggressive move to go get OJ Howard.
Speaker 1: I don't, I would you would? Yeah, this is a
Speaker 1: strong tight end class O. J. Howard is number one.
Speaker 1: If you would dispute that, but I don't think necessarily.
Speaker 1: If he falls to you at twenty eight, okay, then
Speaker 1: you really have to consider taking him. But if I
Speaker 1: if I told you were getting Greg Olsen, would you
Speaker 1: give up a third? Don't tell me that that's are
Speaker 1: you grating OJ Howard as a Greg Olson? I think
Speaker 1: I think you have a Greg Olson career. I think
Speaker 1: I think he compared him to Greg ols I did
Speaker 1: I compared. I compare him to Greg Olsen. I do
Speaker 1: agree with I think as his ability to get down
Speaker 1: the field, separate and make catches. Okay, and he and
Speaker 1: he's a better blocker than people give him credit. We
Speaker 1: used to and we saw that today when they kept
Speaker 1: him in, when they kept him in the block the edge,
Speaker 1: the linebacker on the blitz, what DoD he do? Stone? Stay? Stay? Stay?
Speaker 1: He shows that on his tape. He's not an overpowering
Speaker 1: guy by any means, but he gets in the way,
Speaker 1: he can sustain for a little bit and he gets
Speaker 1: the job done. You know that he can do that
Speaker 1: as a block. What if he was Tyler Eifford? No,
Speaker 1: I mean I'd rather in the second round pick up
Speaker 1: one of these other Definitely not Eric. That guy has
Speaker 1: had a terrible career. Yeah he's he's kind of wasted
Speaker 1: his talent. Or the Lions pick, Yeah, he wasn't good
Speaker 1: as much. Sure the Lions would rather have Aaron Donald
Speaker 1: or Odell, But as much as I like O. J. Howard,
Speaker 1: I'm not giving up because I view my third rounder
Speaker 1: as a starter. I think I can find a starter
Speaker 1: in the third round. You shouldn't be able to actually
Speaker 1: on a defense. Charles Tapper, Yeah he gotta bring that.
Speaker 1: Hey he's healthy. What about the compensatory pick in the
Speaker 1: fourth round last year? I want to trade that one? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You wanting up that one? Boys? Wait a minute? Who
Speaker 1: on the draft shows? Who on the draft show? We
Speaker 1: at one thirty five, we had them taking Dak Prescott.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just saying we had that pick. What
Speaker 1: he's saying is that just because it doesn't sound valuable
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it is. It's not valuable, like you can
Speaker 1: get You don't have five, do you, Dave? No, we
Speaker 1: don't have a five right now? Yeah. See Dan, I
Speaker 1: don't blame him. He wants to have all his picks.
Speaker 1: I hate it. But and this defense needs help. But
Speaker 1: if you told me all due respect in the world
Speaker 1: to Jason Witten, like a dynamic red zone threat tight
Speaker 1: end who can go up and get the Greg Olsen,
Speaker 1: make this offense even nastier than a hearty Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Okay, you could talk me into it, but
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be number. Is he your seventeenth best player?
Speaker 1: What is oj Howard Howard? Yeah? Yeah, he was somewhere
Speaker 1: in the teens. I mean he he's up there, so
Speaker 1: that I mean it makes sense and ms of value.
Speaker 1: But for this team, the strength of this tight end class,
Speaker 1: I feel much better about getting my tight end in
Speaker 1: the second or third round and getting an impact defense.
Speaker 1: Second round tight ends have worked out well here. Wow,
Speaker 1: yeah that should not. Why why are you throwing all
Speaker 1: these grenades? I'm just telling you, why are you throwing?
Speaker 1: What round was Jason wit And drafted him? He was?
Speaker 1: He was he was drafting the third Okay, then just
Speaker 1: forget second round. He had a first round grade on
Speaker 1: that guy was last and that was he was our
Speaker 1: and that's our last third round grade. We had him
Speaker 1: at a one point one nine. You know what though
Speaker 1: though that in that draft, though there was you talk
Speaker 1: about a deep draft. L J. Smith, Uh Sideman Mike
Speaker 1: Sidon was in that draft as well, and then Dallas
Speaker 1: Clark was in that draft. Dallas Clark, iowas right here,
Speaker 1: old man, ye, old man, remember being at sixth grade
Speaker 1: grade in that draft. Yeah, seriously, give me, give me
Speaker 1: some more questions I got. I got a couple of
Speaker 1: questions about Fred Ross. What y'all think of him? Action?
Speaker 1: He's a Mississippi State guy. Yeah, a lot of people
Speaker 1: talk in the action the Fred The Fred Ross buzz
Speaker 1: today was a ball because of Dak Right. Has he
Speaker 1: done anything this week for you? Caught one ball I
Speaker 1: saw today? Yeah? I know, I know you always cheer
Speaker 1: when I tell you what do you do today? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I believe it was Fred Ross. He I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: he before Trudavious White got hurt. He beat Trudavious White
Speaker 1: on a comeback for a decent game. Yeah, that's all
Speaker 1: I got. Fred Ross is a solid receiver. He you
Speaker 1: watch his uh Mississippi State tape. Anytime there was a
Speaker 1: third and seven, they're going to Fred Ross. He was there.
Speaker 1: Kind of their money player on those money downs. Very reliable.
Speaker 1: He's not gonna wow anyone with his athleticism or even
Speaker 1: his size. Not the biggest guy, but better than Dunia Wilson.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah for eight. I'm just taking shouts at the
Speaker 1: Mississippi State guys. Yeah, Fred Ross. He leaves Mississippi State
Speaker 1: as the all time leading receiver and a lot of categories. Sure,
Speaker 1: a productive guy. He'll play in the NFL. But I
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're I don't see anything more than
Speaker 1: maybe a fourth receiver. Either my crazy or I didn't see.
Speaker 1: I didn't see. I wasn't really it wasn't one of
Speaker 1: those things where I was getting lit up. I mean
Speaker 1: there's receivers out there, they're running routes and you see separation. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You even talk about your Michigan guy, Darbou. Yeah, Darbou?
Speaker 1: You know I mean, I mean him or Darbo? Oh
Speaker 1: give me Darbou. Yeah. Explain why you like Darbo so much? Well,
Speaker 1: I think he reminds me a lot of Jalen Strong
Speaker 1: when he was coming out of Arizona State, except he's
Speaker 1: Darbo is a better version. I think. You see, he's crafty,
Speaker 1: a strong. Everybody's talking about him as a high high pick.
Speaker 1: I know, and I think Darbou is jail. I think
Speaker 1: Darbou is what we wanted Jayleen Strong to be. I
Speaker 1: think he's a crafty route runner, strong at the catchpoint,
Speaker 1: very good athlete. Not a speedster by any means, and
Speaker 1: not an elite speed guy. But in terms of getting
Speaker 1: open in his routes, I think he can do that.
Speaker 1: I like Darbou quite a bit, somewhere in the top
Speaker 1: one hundred third round area maybe. And let me ask
Speaker 1: you this one more time. I'm talking about receivers. A
Speaker 1: lot of people out there Texas A and and H fans,
Speaker 1: you know, and and I get on you about Josh Reynolds.
Speaker 1: We'll be debating him throughout the process. There's no no
Speaker 1: question this is gonna be. This is gonna be because
Speaker 1: every time, yeah, because every time I say, oh, look
Speaker 1: at that, look at that, and then and he drops
Speaker 1: a ball in the day, he goes, oh look at that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Josh Reynolds, I'll take all day as
Speaker 1: my number four receiver. I would love to have him
Speaker 1: as my number four as Okay, well, all like Reynolds
Speaker 1: or a ross Um, you know, because I with Reynolds,
Speaker 1: you have a little bit more upside. I think you
Speaker 1: have a little bit more like his vertical ability. I
Speaker 1: will take that because he can get a step down field,
Speaker 1: go up and catch the ball and be a playmaker.
Speaker 1: But I just don't. I mean, what is he Do
Speaker 1: you think he could be a number two in the league.
Speaker 1: I don't. I think you're right about that now. But
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say he's a four. But I don't
Speaker 1: think he's a natural slot guy. So to me, he
Speaker 1: feels like a Bryce Butler role, where yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: number four, Well, and give him time and maybe you know,
Speaker 1: he's a number four for you Andy, and then maybe
Speaker 1: after some time he can grow into a larger role.
Speaker 1: But I just I don't know. I don't. I'm not
Speaker 1: as high in him as some other people are. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean I don't like him, No, No, I know that.
Speaker 1: No I did, because you know what, you think he's
Speaker 1: way better. I think he is way better. He kicked
Speaker 1: Kansas States, but I watched that Bowl game he did.
Speaker 1: But Dane's right, because you mean he you know, he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: Chad Williams was gonna catch that ball. You know, Chad
Speaker 1: Williams is gonna catch And you know he's right by
Speaker 1: the way Gramley kid, I keep talking about him but
Speaker 1: he's he's had a he's he's helped himself, but he
Speaker 1: made that safety pretty mad for Miami. Yeah, okay, all right, yeah,
Speaker 1: well thanks d Square. Okay, hey, thanks everybody out there. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break and then we'll come back.
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap this show up. You are with the
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Speaker 1: Is that Dallascowboys dot com? Draft Showboys back here on
Speaker 1: the Draft Show. Got about five minutes left in the show,
Speaker 1: kind of went through a lot of different things. Today
Speaker 1: would be the only padded practice. Tomorrow we'll go back
Speaker 1: to the shoulder pads and shorts variety. Oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: more of a walkthrough or as the Browns coaches would say,
Speaker 1: normal practice. But no, I mean we've talked about though,
Speaker 1: what we got out of the practices and stuff like that. Though, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's you know, and we've got to show tomorrow and
Speaker 1: we'll know you've got to go back. You're heading back
Speaker 1: to Dallas tomorrow. So Dave and I will kind of
Speaker 1: carry on and maybe some guys we'll talk about tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but we think it will happen in the game. Maybe
Speaker 1: some guys. But is there anybody you know, is there
Speaker 1: anybody that you're just kind of waiting for? Dane are
Speaker 1: you waiting for somebody to show up? Are you waiting?
Speaker 1: Is it? Like man, I came in with expectations. I
Speaker 1: got through, I got through one practice, I got through
Speaker 1: a padded practice, and I'm still kind of waiting on
Speaker 1: a guy. Well, yeah, a couple of guys I think
Speaker 1: deserve mentioned there. Troy Garcia from or Tony Garcia from
Speaker 1: Troy right. Uh, he has a lot of hype right now.
Speaker 1: Is you know, maybe the top senior tackle. Maybe a
Speaker 1: guy's gonna push for first round status. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just don't see it. I was, I didn't see
Speaker 1: it on tape and I haven't seen it here. I
Speaker 1: think he's a solid guy in that second and fourth
Speaker 1: round range, trying to you know, figure out where he fits.
Speaker 1: But I didn't see a first round player. Um, and
Speaker 1: I think that's that's held true here. But the quarterbacks, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna go. I was gonna go with Dame.
Speaker 1: I was gonna go with Dave on that because I
Speaker 1: knew and I want you to get Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask it. There's six guys out there, and you
Speaker 1: know where you would cover your eyes and as they
Speaker 1: throw you just go, oh my god, what a difference
Speaker 1: a year mix. I'll tell you one thing. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying he's good because he's not. He doesn't appear to
Speaker 1: be based on two practices. But Davis Webb can chuck
Speaker 1: the football, though he can sing a prospernative. He like,
Speaker 1: he's kind of got the JaMarcus Russell thing where he
Speaker 1: just goes like and it goes like sixty yards. So
Speaker 1: you're so you're saying, might not go where it's supposed
Speaker 1: to go, but it goes. So the six guys, you see,
Speaker 1: because I was watching Josh Dobbs. Dobbs made a throw
Speaker 1: going to his left today and Dame was like, and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, hey, that was a nice throw.
Speaker 1: What'd you have? And then you were kind of you
Speaker 1: were saying, hey, maybe don't let me misquote you or
Speaker 1: anything like here. But when we get into game situations
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, things kind of fall apart for him.
Speaker 1: Decision making, the ability to win from the pocket as
Speaker 1: a passer. I just don't see it with Dobbs. I don't.
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear a lot of Dak comparisons with him
Speaker 1: because the intangible, Yeah, I think he did throw to
Speaker 1: his left pretty well. That one That's actually really funny though,
Speaker 1: because the big thing like how much Dak improved even
Speaker 1: though he wasn't a Heisman contender, he improved so much
Speaker 1: as a passer from junior to senior year. And the
Speaker 1: knock on Dobbs is like he hasn't improved as a
Speaker 1: quarterback since his freshman year in college. Highly touted type
Speaker 1: of guy, and Josh Dobbs is the reason Tennessee was
Speaker 1: so highly rated and failed to meet up to those
Speaker 1: expectations because you said every year you go, well, you
Speaker 1: got a third year or fourth year quarterback coming back,
Speaker 1: like he's gonna be great and you're gonna be better
Speaker 1: because of it. And I don't think he ever met
Speaker 1: those expectations. There are three quarterbacks here who I gave
Speaker 1: draftable grades to Peterman from Pitt He's my top senior quarterback.
Speaker 1: I think a game of five h Davis Webb, who
Speaker 1: I think he needs a lot of work, but as
Speaker 1: you know, David was saying the the arm is there.
Speaker 1: He's tall. He's not thick, but he's tall. He I
Speaker 1: thought I gave him like a five six. And then CJ.
Speaker 1: Bethard from Iowa, who you know his grandfather. Yeah, longtime generalman.
Speaker 1: I know his grandfather, well, um, I gave him a
Speaker 1: six seven. Um a guy that maybe take a chance
Speaker 1: on late, maybe hassle them there. But besides those three guys,
Speaker 1: there just isn't much in the senior quarterback. The only
Speaker 1: guy of any of the quarterbacks that has flashed whatsoever
Speaker 1: for me is Webb, and that's mostly just because you
Speaker 1: can can sling it. You can see the arms six four, five, two,
Speaker 1: twenty nine. The measurables for Webb's very lean to twenty nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like one of those really tall guys that still
Speaker 1: looks really small though. And he looked at the offenses
Speaker 1: that he's been in Texas Tech and then Cals two
Speaker 1: air raid offenses where you know, he's just chucking it.
Speaker 1: His reads are predetermined a lot of throws within seven
Speaker 1: yards a line of scrimmage. So he just there's so
Speaker 1: much that's going to be asked with him at the
Speaker 1: NFL level that he just doesn't know, he hasn't experienced yet.
Speaker 1: And so with that, there's a lot of question marks
Speaker 1: with him. Okay, random observation that's not really related to that,
Speaker 1: but I meant to bring it up earlier. Evan Ingram.
Speaker 1: Why are we calling the sky at tight end? He's not,
Speaker 1: He's a wide receiver. Like that's that's very misleading because
Speaker 1: I saw I saw him go out and make Well,
Speaker 1: they're calling a kid at Virginia Tech a tied end.
Speaker 1: It plays wide received wide receiver too, Hodges. I will
Speaker 1: pound the table as long as I as long as
Speaker 1: it takes both those guys are wide receiver. Ingram abused
Speaker 1: this UH safety today on a nice ball in the slot,
Speaker 1: and I was like, WHOA, who's that wide receiver that
Speaker 1: made that play? It's Evan Ingram. He's a big receiver.
Speaker 1: He's that Marquis Colston role. You put him in the slot,
Speaker 1: you let him manipulate the middle of the field against
Speaker 1: safeties and linebackers. You got yourself in play, much like
Speaker 1: Marcus Colston back in two thousand and six. Like, he's
Speaker 1: gonna go into the league and people are gonna call
Speaker 1: him a tight end and he's gonna put up receiver numbers,
Speaker 1: win a bunch of people their fantasy league, and it's
Speaker 1: gonna piss me. I hope he goes to the right situation.
Speaker 1: I think he will. Okay, Well, that's all the time
Speaker 1: we have for tonight. I want to thank everybody out
Speaker 1: there for listening watching. I want to thank these guys too.
Speaker 1: I want to thank David Hellman. I want to thank
Speaker 1: Dane Brun. We'll lose Dane tomorrow he heads back, but
Speaker 1: we'll have him. Yeah, please to well, well, we'll still
Speaker 1: keep talking show, but Dane will join us back next week.
Speaker 1: We'll get on that Thursday. The Draft shows are gonna
Speaker 1: be on now on Thursday, and so make sure you
Speaker 1: check it out and uh, you know uh and and
Speaker 1: keep watching. I also want to thank Ken Garrison for
Speaker 1: getting us on air here in the hotel room and
Speaker 1: allowing us to do this. Also want to thank UH.
Speaker 1: I want to also thank uh, Ed Kayhill and Derek
Speaker 1: Eagleton as well for h for helping us promote this
Speaker 1: show and get it all out. And again I'll thank
Speaker 1: Taylor Stern too for what she does promoting us as well.
Speaker 1: So we'll be back tomorrow, probably around the same time.
Speaker 1: There'll be six pm Central for my guys here. We'll
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow night at the Draft show.