1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 2: should know. 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: Now. 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: I've got an intro for this. 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Chuck, you're ready, Yeah, let's hear it. 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to talk about 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: this thing called human papioma virus. What do you think. 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: That's good? I hear the beat starting in the background. 11 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: It's just a good, good album. We got to add 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: some kind of good spin to this. 13 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: Sure, while we're talking about HPV, like you mentioned, and 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: we should say right out of the gate, HPV is 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: a very very very very common sexually transmitted infection. If 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: you have HPV or have had it, you may have 17 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: not even known about it, perhaps because your body just 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: took care of it. But if you have it and 19 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: you know about it, or have had it and knew 20 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: you had it, it's no big deal. For the most part, 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 1: it's nothing to be ashamed of. It is very very common. 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 2: It is the problem is this, like that would be 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: the end of the episode if if HPV wasn't a virus. Actually, 24 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 2: the first virus found to cause cancer. That is rare 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: in and of itself, compared to all of the HPV 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: infections that are running around the world at any given time. 27 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: There's a lot, and there's a lot of different types 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: of HPV, but because it causes cancer, it's drawn a 29 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: lot of interest from the biomedical community. And luckily, what 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: we're finding is that HPV is super treatable if your 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: body doesn't clear it up on its own. And in fact, 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: there's an amazing vaccine out there that is one of 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: the better, more effective vaccines on the market today for anything. 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: That's right, and if people get this vaccine, were potentially 35 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: looking at eradicating at least HPV caused cervical cancer. 36 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, just getting rid of it. So long, goodbye cervical cancer. 37 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 2: You're a thing of the past. And because we brought 38 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: up the vaccine so early, I believe I heard the 39 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: sound of one hundred thousand people skipping to the next 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: episode or maybe finding a new podcast altogether. 41 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Oh come on. So the other thing that you might 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: think about when you hear of HPV besides cervical cancer 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: is genital warts. Maybe the last few or made people 44 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: have tuned out now, right, But we're gonna dig into 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: this because those including talk of genital awards and cervical cancer. 46 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: But HPV itself, we should say, is a larger name, 47 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: an umbrella term basically for many, many different viruses. But 48 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: there are a handful that are pretty key to our 49 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: story here, and they are you'll hear say, various numbers 50 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: like HPV eleven, HPV sixteen. That's how they have them labeled. 51 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the stars the villain, I guess, 52 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: is HPV sixteen. It's the strain that causes the most 53 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 2: kind of cancers and it's actually it's really ancient. Like 54 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: the reason they call it human pepioma virus is because 55 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: it is specific to humans, Like you can give it 56 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: to your dog all day long and your dog's not 57 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: gonna get it. Your dog here has pepio right, Your 58 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: dog and other animals have pepioma viruses. Apparently, cottontail rabbits 59 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: get warts very easily from their papioma virus, and we 60 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: can't get it from them, So it's very very specific. 61 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: And HPV sixteen, which is a kind of human papioma 62 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: virus that causes cervical cancer, among others. They believe that 63 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: humans us modern Homo sapiens got it from Neanderthals and 64 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Denisovans when we used to have sex with them and 65 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: them with us. 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: You know what you gotta do before you try and 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: give your dog HPV? Though, Well, you gotta make upset. 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: I don't get it. What you gonna make your dogs 69 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: sit before you give it HPV? 70 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: All right, I'm just gonna scoot right on past that one. 71 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: Okay. 72 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: So we're talking a little bit of history. We'll see, 73 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: we'll do a pull of people who get that joke 74 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: and don't I want to hear from it. 75 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Well, you explain it later and i'll 76 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: see if I'm guessing it right. All right? 77 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: Uh No, I get chastised for explaining jokes, so I'm 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: not even gonna do that this time. We'll let the 79 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: people speak. 80 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: Wait, why don't you do it next time? I really 81 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: want to know this, I'll tell you after, Okay. 82 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: So, looking at our history of human beings, people have 83 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: long suspected that warts that you see, like you got 84 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: a word on your nose or a word on your elbow, 85 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: there was an infection that was responsible for that happening. Finally, 86 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: we prove that in the middle of the nineteenth century 87 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: or so, when the people there were scientists that were 88 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: intentionally trying to give themselves warts and it worked by 89 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: infecting their skin. So like, all right, we figured that 90 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: out with more extracts. Yeah, gross, it's trying to point 91 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: that out. So it took a little while for that 92 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: to go downstairs and apply to genital awarts, because people 93 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: thought for a very long time, hey, if you have 94 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: genital awarts, that's just a symptom of like syphilis or something, 95 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: and we eventually learned that that's not the case at all. 96 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a nineteen seventeen German paper that purposely 97 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 2: infected a virgin girl to prove that genital warts exist 98 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: outside of STIs that's it's its own thing, and they did. 99 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 2: They proved it. So there's another thread going on. At 100 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: the same time, back in the nineteenth century, they figured 101 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 2: out that cervical cancer was a strange conundrum scientifically speaking, 102 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 2: because if you took a group of nuns and you 103 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: took a group of married women and put them together, 104 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: the incidents of breast cancer would probably be about the same, 105 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: the incidents of lung cancer probably about the same. The 106 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: one that diverged is cervical cancer, and they couldn't figure 107 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: out why because it didn't really make sense, except the 108 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: only way that did make sense is that cervical cancer 109 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: somehow developed from a sexually transmitted infection. 110 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: I wonder if like one person knew it and they 111 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: were sharing with other scientists and they were like, I 112 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: don't know, and they're like, what do nuns not do that? 113 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: Other married ladies might doine no, no, with something am 114 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: on you and in the bedroom, maybe watch TV. 115 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: I don't know, just tell me. 116 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: Oh, there's a good sketch in there somewhere. 117 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: I think. Sure. So they figured all this out, they 118 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: put it all together, and they finally realized thanks to 119 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: a German virologist, another one named Horror Zerhausen great name. 120 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty three, he found that if you took 121 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: a specimen of cervical cancer a biopsy and studied it closely, 122 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: you would actually find a papioma virus inside, and specifically 123 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: it would turned out to be what we now know 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: as HPV sixteen. The chances are there's going to be 125 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: some form of HPV sixteen found in that biopsy in 126 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: that cancerous cell taken from a cervical cancer patient. 127 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: That's right, And like you said, that was in nineteen 128 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: eighty three. Flash forward to two thousand and eight when 129 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: Harald Zerhausen gets a Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 130 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: for his continued work developing that HPB vaccine that we mentioned. Right, 131 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: it's a nice word, Housen. 132 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, way to go. I think he deserved it because 133 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,679 Speaker 2: he found this is the first virus that we've ever 134 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: shown to cause cancer. It's like this whole field of 135 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 2: medicine that's starting to kind of wrap its around the 136 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: role that viruses playing all sorts of diseases. I know 137 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 2: there's a hypothesis that schizophrenia might actually be triggered by 138 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 2: a dormant virus that comes to life later on around 139 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: your teenage years. So this is the first time we 140 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: pointed to it. And that's one of the things that 141 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: makes HPV so fascinating. There's not a lot of viruses 142 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: running around that cause cancer, and this one definitely does. 143 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. So we mentioned that it's a lot of viruses 144 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: over two hundred if you want to get a little 145 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: more exact, and they generally divide these into a couple 146 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: of different groups, the cutaneous and the mucosal types cutaneous 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: HPVs are. This is where you think of the worts. 148 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: They infect the skin. If you have like planar worts 149 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: on your feet, or you have worts on your hands 150 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: or something like that, it's because of the cutaneous type 151 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: of HPV, the mucosal type. And it's a little grosser 152 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: here because we have to say the word moist, but 153 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: they specifically infect moist parts of the boy. This is 154 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: where you get warts on genitals, your throat, maybe your nose, 155 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: your anus, your cervix of course, and your inner eyelids, 156 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: which can't be comfortable. 157 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And because all of those or a lot of 158 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: those are sexy parts, the inside of your eyelid. Notwithstanding, 159 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: it goes to show that HPV infection can be transmitted sexually. 160 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 2: It's not all the time like the other kind of 161 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: the cutaneous type that causes plantar works. You can get 162 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: that from walking around a pool, a pool deck or 163 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: somewhere there's HPV hanging out. But it's a different kind 164 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: of HPV HPV sixteen that can cause cancer. That is 165 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: a sexually transmitted HPV. It's mucosal and it's also in 166 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 2: a subcategory of mucostal HPV called high risk. There's high 167 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: risk and there's low risk, And as you may guess 168 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: just from the names, high risk typically leads to cancer 169 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: or can. The low risk almost never does. 170 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. If you think, hey, can I use 171 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: a condom to get around this? That helps. But HPV, 172 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: the mucoastal type of lead, doesn't require bodily fluids for transmission. 173 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: So if you are sexually active as a person, and 174 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: you have been so for a few years, then chances 175 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: are you've probably had HPV and maybe not even known it. 176 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a really big point that you don't 177 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: have to exchange body fluids. And also, similarly, Chuck, I 178 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: want to make sure it's totally clear genital awarts doesn't 179 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: cause cancer. It's a different type of HPV. So you 180 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: actually can give somebody genital awarts from sexual contact, but 181 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 2: that's almost certainly not going to lead to any kind 182 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: of cancer. They're just different types, even though they can 183 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: be passed along similarly through skin to skin contact. 184 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: That's right. 185 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think you said just from being sexually active, 186 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: you're probably going to pick up some form of HPV. 187 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: Another about fourteen million Americans, Yeah, just Americans. Alone get 188 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: a new infection every year. There's at least eighty million 189 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 2: Americans running around with an HPV infection right now. And 190 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 2: if you do the math, here in America, we have 191 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: a pretty close replacement rate where we have just a 192 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: few more one hundred thousand berths than deaths every year. Right, 193 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 2: so let's just say that's a wash. At fourteen million 194 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: new infections every year, that means everything's staying exactly the 195 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: same as it is now. In twenty four years, every 196 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: single American will be infected with HPV. And we already 197 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: said that HPV sixteen we got from Neanderthals, so it's 198 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 2: been around a really long time. So it makes you wonder, well, 199 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: why this sudden surge in infections. And apparently a lot 200 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 2: of the incidences of HPV, or this rise in incidents 201 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: can be traced to changes in sexual morais and behaviors 202 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: that have occurred over the last few decades. 203 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: We just put a pin in that. Sure, Okay, we'll 204 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: reveal what that might mean later on. Maybe we should 205 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: take a break. Yeah, yes, pretty good intro, and we'll 206 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: talk about genital warts when we get back. All right, 207 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: so we're back, We promise talk of more talk that 208 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: is of genital warts. I believe you mentioned the low 209 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: risk mucosal type usually six and eleven HBB are the 210 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: ones that calls these warts or other you know, moist membranes, 211 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: mucous membranes. They don't generally cause a lot of health 212 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: problems or any really, they can be painful. Sometimes they 213 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: can be itchy. Obviously, there's a lot of embarrassment that 214 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: surrounds genital awarts. Just saying those words together isn't something 215 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna like advertise to people. 216 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: No, you don't say, like, just disregard my genital awarts. 217 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, I'm sure plenty of people have 218 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: said that, but who knows. 219 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't always work. 220 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: That's what it works. But it's nothing to be ashamed 221 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: of because it is quite common and they can be removed. 222 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes medication can do it. Sometimes they'll do the old 223 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: freeze with liquid nitrogen routine. 224 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: I used to get that. I got warts on my 225 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: elbows and I used to get it burned off with 226 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: liquid nitrogen pretty regularly. I think it's. 227 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: At Yeah, I feel like I've had that done with. 228 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I think I had plan awarts that they did that too. 229 00:13:59,000 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: When I was in college. 230 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can get rid of warts that way. 231 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also lasers these days that can handle that 232 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: different different methods to get rid of those general awards 233 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: in due time. So don't worry about it. If you 234 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: have those people, just you know, keep soldiering on. You'll 235 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: be okay. 236 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: Yes, So there are some some types of HPV infections 237 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: that lead to warts mucoastal warts that can be a problem. 238 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: There's one in particular, Respiratory pepiomatosis is a condition that's 239 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: caused by warts and the airways, and it typically happens 240 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: in kids and it's treatable, but it can narrow the 241 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: airway and that in and of itself is problematic. They 242 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: think that it's transferred, that HPV infection is transferred during 243 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 2: birth or from the antiotic fluid inside the womb. But 244 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: it's pretty it's pretty rare. It's one of the rare 245 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 2: ones that Okay, this is actually be a bit of 246 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: a health problem from. 247 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: Warts, Yeah for sure, But that is only in young children. 248 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: It's usually you see it between the ages of two 249 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: and six. It canic are and adults. But I think 250 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: it's even more rare. But again, you can remove these surgically, 251 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: so you can get that taken care of as well. 252 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Plus you get to go back to school in 253 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: the fall and be like, yeah, they shot lasers down 254 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: my throat, what did you do this summer? 255 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: That's right to get rid of my warts. Ye. There's 256 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: also infections with the high risk kinds of APV that 257 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: don't clear up on their own, and these are the 258 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: ones that could eventually lead to cancer. 259 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is a very very long process. But essentially, 260 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: this HPV infection that can is akin to causing warts, 261 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: just causes hijacks a sell just like any other virus, 262 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: causes it to multiply and multiply and multiply, and then 263 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: has these cells rupture. They released more viruses into the 264 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: extracellular membrane, and they get into more cells and it 265 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: just gets worse and worse. The difference between an HPV 266 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: infection and other types of infections from viruses is that 267 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: they're not systemic. They stay very very localized, and so 268 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 2: they form a very recognizable legion. 269 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. But it isn't just cervical cancer though, that we 270 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: should point out. I believe there are six kinds of cancer. 271 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I think the data that we got was this Libya? 272 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: Did she help us with this? 273 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? Hats off, I can tell. 274 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: In a good way. I was like, oh, geez, I 275 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: could tell. 276 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: All the dirty jokes. Yeah, we can't say. 277 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one is when we got the latest CDC 278 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: data with more than thirty seven thousand cases of cancer 279 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: associated per year of that are associated with HPV twenty 280 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and women sixteen thousand and men. And the 281 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: six kinds of cancer or I guess the five besides 282 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: cervical are anal cancer, penile cancer, vaginal cancer, bulvar cancer cancer, 283 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: bulvar cancer. Man. That's hard to say. 284 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: It is. 285 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: That's a good pre stage warm up. Okay, so you 286 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: hear me backstage saying good lord. And then finally oro 287 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: fairyngeal cancer, which is the base of the tongue, the 288 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: back of the throat tonsils. You can also get that 289 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: through tobacco use, not surprisingly, so you should also not 290 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: be surprised to learn that as tobacco use has gone down, 291 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: so have incidences of non HPV oro fare engeal cancer. 292 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 2: But incidents of orofair andngeal cancer overall has increased because 293 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: there's been a rise in HPV infections to that man, 294 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: and I think I made it pretty clear. HPV sixteen 295 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: is one of the big batties of this episode. So 296 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 2: is HPV eighteen. Those are the two most common cancer 297 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: causing types of HPV. They're responsible. HPV sixteen is responsible 298 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 2: for ninety percent of HPV related orofare andngeal cancers, half 299 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: of all cervical cancers, and all the other cancers that 300 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: are related to HPV. It's it makes up a significant 301 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 2: portion of them, just sixteen alone. 302 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think eighteen causes twenty percent of cervical cancer. 303 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: So between those two, you know, you're looking at seventy percent. 304 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: So let's talk cervical cancer, shall we, Because it is 305 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: a it's really important. It's become I guess, how do 306 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: you put it. It's really emerged as a condition that's 307 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: gotten a lot of attention because there's so much potential 308 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: for getting rid of it altogether. 309 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a situation where here in the United States, 310 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: due to early detection and treatment, it is really really lowered. 311 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: I think it's gone down by more than fifty percent 312 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: from the mid seventies to the mid two thousands and 313 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: only and you know, of course four thousand people. It's 314 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: a lot of people. But when you're talking about what 315 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: the rates could and would have been in the past, 316 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: four thousand Americans dying of cervical cancer each year is 317 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: a lot of progress has been made. 318 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And overall, I think there's three hundred and fifty 319 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: thousand deaths from cervical cancer worldwide every year. Yeah, And 320 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: I mean Americans make up a decent portion of the 321 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: world population, but not a good portion of the cervical 322 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: cancer death population. The reason why is because America has 323 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 2: a really robust screening process that is easily accessed by 324 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 2: American women to search for cervical cancer and catch it 325 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 2: early on, and it's not nearly as robust in some 326 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: other developing parts of the world. 327 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, because in America, once you turn twenty one, if 328 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: you're a woman, generally for about from about twenty one 329 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: to sixty five, you're going to be getting a PAP 330 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: test about every three years, or at least you're supposed to. 331 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: And the US Preventative Services Task Force the USPSTF says 332 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: if you're under thirty, they don't recommend that you get 333 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: tested for HPV unless you have some you know, some 334 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: pretty obvious risk factors. Why, well, because generally by then 335 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: you have probably gotten it and it is probably cleared 336 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: up on its own. And that also means that you 337 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: have some kind of immunity, sometimes very long lasting immunity. 338 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: Yes, so they say, don't bother with the HPV test, 339 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: but definitely do get your PAP test. PAP, by the way, 340 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: isn't short for papioma. It's short for the guy who 341 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 2: came up with the test. Georgios Papa Nicolau pap, I 342 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: guess to his friends and family. Sure, so that's looking 343 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: for abnormal cells in your cervix. If they find that, 344 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: you test for HPV to see what kind of HPV 345 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: infection you might have that could account for those abnormal cells. 346 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 2: And then the American Cancer Society says, forget that, just 347 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: start at twenty five. Forget the PAP smerror, start with 348 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: an HPV test, like if you have to prioritize one, 349 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 2: do that. Yeah, And you might say, well, I'm confused. 350 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 2: The Preventative Services Test for says thirty and focus on 351 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: the PAP test. In the meantime, the ACS so sort 352 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: the PAP test out, focus on the HPV test starting 353 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 2: at twenty five, which one should I choose, And you 354 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: don't have to worry if you're an American, because your 355 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: insurance company will choose for you, and that'll probably be neither. 356 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: That's right. If during your screening you happen to see 357 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: what's a pre cancer or a dysplasia, then what they're 358 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: probably going to do next is to examine the cervix. 359 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: It's not a pleasant process. It's done using an instrument 360 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: called a colposcope. You may get a biopsy performed, but 361 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's a minor thing that's going 362 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: to go on its own, and so what they what 363 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: they might do is say, hey, let's just monitor this 364 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: thing instead of removing it, and just sort of get 365 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: you tested more regularly to see what's happening with that. 366 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to your year of anxiety. Yeah until your 367 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 2: next test. It sucks, Yeah, but the odds are with you. Yeah, yeah, 368 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: for sure, because we've got this early screening, because they 369 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: have like a lot of tale signatures. They might they 370 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: may also do a biopsy. If it does seem like 371 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: it's a big deal, they may do more invasive surgery. 372 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: But for the most part, we'll set cervical cancer aside 373 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: for a second, until we get to the vaccine. It's 374 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 2: if you go get a PAP test and you do 375 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: some form of HPV testing whether if needed, you're probably 376 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: going to catch it early for it to be treated. 377 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: That's right, that's the great news with cervical cancer. Unfortunately, 378 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: the other kinds of cancer is the other five that 379 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: we mentioned caused by HBB. There isn't a routine screening 380 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: for those or preventative treatments for those. And that is 381 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why you mentioned oor a fair 382 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: andngeal cancer is growing even though tobacco use and tobacco 383 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: caused oor a fair and geal cancer is falling. 384 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because people stopped using tobacco as much, but they 385 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 2: replaced tobacco use with oral sex, which is one of 386 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: the it's actually the biggest risk factor now for developing 387 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: oor fair andngeal cancer. And the more oral sex partners 388 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 2: you've had, the greater your risk of developing oro faar 389 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: andngeal cancer a few decades later. Is as a matter 390 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: of fact, So that's what I was saying earlier, when 391 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: I was saying that there's been a change in sexual 392 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: morais and behavior. Oral sex has become much more prevalent 393 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 2: since the sixties and seventies than before, and a lot 394 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: of those men in particular, are starting to age into 395 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 2: that point in their life where that HPV infection is 396 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: developing into a cancer and is developing into orofair andngeal cancer. 397 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: Right, and we're talking specifically about oral sex performed on women. 398 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: So I guess the idea is that you can get 399 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: that HPV and many many years later, when you're, like 400 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: you said, in your fifties or or sixties, that's when 401 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: it might rear its ugly head. 402 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you remember when Michael Douglas said that he 403 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: had oral cancer throat cancer, I think, and he's like, 404 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: it's from oral sex. 405 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone laughs. 406 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what he was talking about. And he's 407 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: right in that age group of boomers that were like, 408 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: you know, let me try this right back in the day. 409 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: So we don't I have a good handle on really 410 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: anything besides cervical cancer. So the orofare engeal cancer field, 411 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: like the researchers and doctors who study this kind of stuff, 412 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: were like, Okay, it's go time for us, because you know, 413 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: we thought everything was just ducky with the tobacco usee 414 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: going down, and now we've got this, we've got to 415 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 2: figure this one out. 416 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: That's right, Good time for a second break, I think. 417 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: So all right, great, we're going to take a break, 418 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: and you know, we talked about the vaccine a couple 419 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 1: of times. We're going to come back and put all 420 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: our cards or all our vaccine cards on the table 421 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: right after this. 422 00:25:42,560 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: Star Chuck, before we move on to the vaccines, which 423 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: I agree we should do post taste, we do want 424 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: to mention that the other kinds of high risk HPV 425 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 2: mucosal cancers include I think, like you said, anal cancer, 426 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 2: vulgar cancer, penal cancer, and vaginal cancer, and they start 427 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: to get much much more rare, starting with anal cancer 428 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: down to vaginal cancer as far as cancer cases go 429 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: caused by HPV. Hopefully we'll be able to figure this 430 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 2: out and there won't be any of those cases. But 431 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 2: that's another reason why cervical cancer got so much attention, 432 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: because there was it was much more prevalent, in addition 433 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: to much more treatable. 434 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: That's right, I'm glad you said that stuff. 435 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 2: So now we can talk about the vaccine. 436 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, let's do it. 437 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: There are two guys, Jean Jao and Ian Fraser, and 438 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 2: they both worked at the University of Queensland. I believe 439 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: Ian Fraser ran the lab in Jean ju Jao and 440 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: his partner worked for Ian Fraser, and together they started 441 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: studying HPV, specifically HPV sixteen, and they figured out that 442 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,959 Speaker 2: you could take HPV sixteen and isolate proteins from it, 443 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: and you could use those proteins ostensibly in a vaccine, 444 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: and in very short order, within a few well a 445 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 2: decade or so, like a vaccine finally did come out. 446 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: Apparently the drug companies took some pep talks I guess 447 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 2: about how much money they could make on this. They 448 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: finally saw the light and we ended up with the 449 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: HPV vaccine in two thousand and six. The first one 450 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 2: was called Gardaseel, and I remember when this came out 451 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 2: from the outset. It came out essentially in the midst 452 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 2: of the firestorm of the vaccines caused autism stuff that 453 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 2: was going on at the same time. Merk was like, hey, 454 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: we got a new one. Everybody, come check this one out. 455 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: That's right, it's meant for girls and women between nine 456 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: and twenty six years old. There's a group called the ACIP, 457 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: the Advisory Committee on Immunization and Practices, that said, you know, 458 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: this stuff's good to go, let's get it out there. 459 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: And it protected against HBB sixteen and eighteen, which is 460 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: the most common high risk types we talked about, and 461 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: then six and eleven, which caused more readily caused the 462 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: a genital awards, so it basically kind of took care 463 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: of the four bad guys. 464 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, after this thing was released, they started launching studies 465 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: on the real world studies on people who gotten and 466 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: they found like, this is actually pretty good at protecting 467 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 2: people against those four HPV strains, and they also figured 468 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: out that it could protect men against genital wards and 469 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: anal cancer because anal cancer or HPV that causes anal 470 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: cancer I think sixteen or probably eighteen as well, can 471 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 2: be transmitted from anal intercourse I can't remember, receptive anal intercourse, 472 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: that's the word, and so you can transmit it like that. 473 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 2: And they found that if men got this vaccine, it 474 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: protected them against that, which was pretty surprising because at 475 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: the beginning they're like, yeah, we just need to give 476 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: this to little girls, and then they were like, no, 477 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: we need to give it to little boys too. 478 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: That's right. So that was in two thousand and nine 479 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: when the FDA licensed it for boys and men from 480 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: nine to twenty six, and again a couple of years 481 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: after that is when the ACIP said, yep, we should 482 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: get it, get it going in that population. 483 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. So at the same time, Glaxo smith Klein said 484 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: us too, we want to make some money off of 485 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 2: this too, and they released Cerverix, which I guess just 486 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: never really picked up steam against Gardisil, because in twenty 487 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: fourteen Merke released Garticil nine and that is essentially the 488 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 2: de facto HPV vaccine in most of the developed world. 489 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: It protects against, as you might have guessed from the name, 490 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 2: nine different strains of HPV, not just the common ones, 491 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: but also some less common ones that are still high risk. 492 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: And they also found again through more clinical trials and 493 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: more real world studies that these things were really really 494 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: effective at protecting kids if you gave them this vaccine 495 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: before they became sexually active. Is one of the really 496 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: big keys here is once you're infected with the strain 497 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: of HPV, that vaccine won't protect you against that strain. 498 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: It'll protect you against the other strains that you haven't 499 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: gotten yet. But it apparently won't do anything. It doesn't 500 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 2: cure any HPV infections. It just defends against them from 501 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 2: you from getting infected with them. 502 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why they went from nine, you know, 503 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: down to nine years old. It's two shots six months 504 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: to a year apart. If you're older than fifteen, I 505 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: believe you have three shots over a six month period. 506 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: And if you're like, well wait a minute at the time, 507 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: like you're like, well, I'm older now, and this stuff 508 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: just came out and sucks for you. Yeah, well they 509 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, you're not going to get the full benefit 510 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: necessarily from that vaccination, but they said it's still maybe 511 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: worth getting if you weren't vaccinated as a kid. 512 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: Especially if you had fewer sexual partners, so less sex. 513 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 2: The older you are, the likelier the vaccine is to 514 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 2: protect you against it later in life. 515 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: Right, And if you were a forty year old virgin, 516 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: then they made a movie about you, Steve Carell pretty 517 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: good movie too. Yeah, I like that one. 518 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 2: So, like I said, this thing was released in the 519 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: midst of the vaccine vaccines caused autism firestorm, and so 520 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: it was controversial, right, out of the gate. But Rick Perry, 521 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 2: who was governor of Texas at the time, did not 522 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 2: help things at all. He did something that seems extraordinarily 523 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: bizarre today in retrospect. He was the Republican governor of 524 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: Texas who ended up serving as Department of Energy secretary 525 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 2: under Trump, and he mandated as governor that every girl 526 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 2: entering sixth grade who lived in Texas had to get 527 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: the Gardasil vaccine in two thousand and seven, a year 528 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: after it got FDA approval, And that did not sit 529 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: well with a lot of parents. 530 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: No, a lot of parents were either just you know, 531 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: sort of like stuff you hear about today, like you know, 532 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: parents rights groups saying that we want to make those decisions. 533 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: Some of them were part of the anti vaccine movement 534 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: and some of them also and just people in general 535 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: I think, were like, well, wait a minute, Perry, you've 536 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: got you're cozied up to these lobbyists for MERK, Like, 537 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: is that what's going on here? So it was a 538 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: big deal. And like you said in retrospect, is it's 539 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: very odd to see at Texas republican governor mandating vaccines 540 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: for anybody. 541 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Rick Perry had big time ties to Mark. 542 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 2: That was the only HPV vaccine on the market at 543 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 2: the time, so it's not like he could choose from 544 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 2: a different type, but it just those ties made the 545 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: whole thing smell fishy. There was another really big thing 546 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 2: that parents came out against. There was a lot of 547 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: fear that when you vaccinated your kid with an HPV vaccine, 548 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: they were going to run right out and start having 549 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: receptive anal sex because now they were protected. They're going 550 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: to have intercourse or you have oral sex starting at 551 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 2: age nine because you just gave them this license to 552 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: go have sex because you vaccinated him against HPV. And 553 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 2: that was the one that the most vocal opponents sounded 554 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: the alarm about. But it turns out from studies follow 555 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 2: up studies about hesitation of HPV vaccine hesitancy among parents 556 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: that's almost like not even on the charts, Like very 557 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 2: few parents are actually worried about that. They're more worried 558 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: about things like whether it's safe, or they think that 559 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 2: their kid actually doesn't need it because my kid's ugly. 560 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 2: Like there's a whole other cadre of reasons, and that 561 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 2: one apparently didn't pan out, and studies that looked at 562 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 2: it that possibility, found that girls who had been given 563 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 2: the HPV vaccine preteen, compared to girls from the same cohort, 564 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 2: had no more incidences of seeking birth control, of pregnancies, 565 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 2: or of any other things that indicated they had more 566 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: sex than the girls who weren't vaccinated with the HPV vaccine. 567 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I bet one reason is because parents probably 568 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: didn't say, all right, you're going to the doctor and 569 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: you're getting this vaccine, and you know what that means. 570 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: So the other one of the other things that popped 571 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: up was the idea that whether or not you need 572 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: to vaccinate boys. In twenty eleven, that was a story 573 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: in the New York Times that basically kind of suggested 574 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: that the biggest benefit for male vaccination was either protecting 575 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: female partners, because well, it was protecting female partners because 576 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: the only way to if you're going to get it 577 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: as a man or a boy, is to have, like 578 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: you said, had that receptive anal sex. And so we've 579 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: learned since then that straight men are also at risk, 580 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: especially for that oro fare andngeal cancer. So that was 581 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: sort of I mean, I was about to say quickly quash, 582 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: but also it wasn't because people got up in arms 583 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: about it. 584 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean they HPV sixteen causes seventy percent 585 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 2: of oral cancers, right, So if you give a boy 586 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 2: the vaccine against HPV sixteen, you're going to take a 587 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 2: big bite out of that possibility of them developing oro 588 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 2: fare and geal cancer later in life. It just makes sense. 589 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 2: So it does make sense for boys and girls to 590 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: both get the vaccine. And yet there's thanks to the 591 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 2: anti vaxx movement, thanks to Rick Perry and his merctise, 592 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 2: thanks to that study that linked autism with vaccines, they're 593 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: still today just a lot of hesitancy in mandating HPV 594 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 2: as part of a required vaccine schedule among boys and 595 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: girls in America. I think Delaware, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Virginia, 596 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 2: and DC are the only ones that require vaccines for students. 597 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 2: They require it for boys and girls. But even with 598 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: that hesitancy among states, among individuals, the cases of cervical 599 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: cancer and death from cervical cancer have fallen dramatically since 600 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 2: two thousand and six when we started vaccinating kids against HPV. 601 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the one takeaway is that this 602 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: is a vaccine that really seems to work. Yeah, there's 603 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 1: a study in twenty twenty one that found that among 604 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: women who had been vaccinated between twelve and thirteen, there 605 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: were eighty seven percent fewer cases of cervical cancer. 606 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nuts. And Johns Hopkins came up with a 607 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 2: model that said that because of vaccination rates among men, 608 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: there should be one thousand fewer cases of oro a 609 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: fare and geal cancer by twenty forty five. You might 610 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: be like, that's it, that doesn't seem like that much. Well, 611 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 2: the reason why is because only twenty to thirty percent 612 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 2: of boys age thirteen to seventeen are getting that vaccine. 613 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 2: If you increase that percentage to like what girls are getting, 614 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 2: which is more like the sixty to seventy percent range, 615 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 2: it would take an even bigger bite out of or 616 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: a fair geal cancer in the future, because those kids 617 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 2: will eventually ate and if they got the vaccine, they 618 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 2: won't have contracted that strain of HPV. 619 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: That's right. How many people are getting this vaccine more 620 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: and more. In twenty twenty two, fifty fifty seven percent 621 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: of kids between the ages of fifteen and seventeen had 622 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: it gotten at least one dose. If you are from 623 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: a family that has parents that are college educated and 624 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: maybe a little more money, you're more likely to be 625 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: vaccinated against it, statistics show, and you know, public public 626 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: education is one of the big reasons that people are 627 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: more aware of it and more inclined to get it. 628 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: Yep, So I guess that's it, Chuck. 629 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: HPV. 630 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to know more about HPV, there's 631 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 2: a lot to go read out there and educate yourself on. 632 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 2: Same with the HPV vaccines that are available. You should 633 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 2: probably read up on anything like that first, but make 634 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: sure that you are getting your info from trusted so horses. 635 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 2: And since I said that, of course it's time for 636 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,479 Speaker 2: listener mail. 637 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: This is good because it ties into an episode on 638 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: whistling and something we both love, which is whistling the scorpions. 639 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I love this one. 640 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, listening to the show about whistling and got 641 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: to the part of the episode about popular songs and 642 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: as I hoped you guys, did mention the classic wind 643 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: of Change by scorpions. Side note, he says it's just scorpions, 644 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: not the Oh sorry, I didn't know that. Kind of 645 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,959 Speaker 1: like eagles and Indigo girls. 646 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: And Edie brickl and New Bohemians. 647 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. And Edie Brikel and New Bohemians. Yeah that's right. Yeah, 648 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: you know what you said. Yeah yeah, brand New Bohemians. 649 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 2: And brand New Heavies. 650 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: That's right. Oh god, I used to love. 651 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 2: That band and New Pornographers. 652 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: Oh well, you know I still love them. 653 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 2: Who else? Jethro Tull? 654 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: Okay, I look Jet Throw Toll too. Oh god, he 655 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,919 Speaker 1: whistled through his flute. However, guys, I was at half 656 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: expecting one of you to mention this crazy fact, and 657 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: you passed over it. Just state it briefly. There exists 658 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that the song Wind of Change was 659 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 1: written or partially written by the CIA as a mode 660 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: of propaganda to help bring an end to the Cold War. 661 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: I'd never heard this ad. 662 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 2: You no, but it really rang true because I remember 663 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 2: when the song came out and what the sentiments were. 664 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: Like, Oh sure, down to God, keep back. The song 665 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,839 Speaker 1: was written and released just months before the Berlin Wall 666 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: was brought down and became hugely popular throughout the Soviet 667 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: Union at the time. A political leaning song was very 668 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: out of character for Scorpions. I just can't say it. Yeah, 669 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: that just picture a bunch of Scorpions. 670 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't quite sit right. It's not like Jetro Toll. 671 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: No, very out of character for thus Scorpions, and the 672 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: band claims that the song was written by lead singer 673 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: Klaus Meinik, who typically never wrote music for the group. 674 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know that either, their manager, Doc McGee. Somehow 675 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: weaseled out of a large drug case with a mysterious 676 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: deal from the US government. The Scorpions claim the song 677 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: was inspired during a rock festival called the Moscow Music 678 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: Peace Festival, where the bands were surrounded by CIA and 679 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: KGB handlers. The interesting wrinkles go on from there. Probably 680 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: not doing it justice, but highly recommend the podcast Wind 681 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: of Change by Patrick Raiden Keith, which chases down a 682 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: number of these connections and threads. If nothing else, it's 683 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: a pretty amusing story about the eighties hairband. They were 684 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: more than a hairband. 685 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were political hairband. 686 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. I hope this email finds you guys 687 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: well have been a huge fan for years. I'm glad 688 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: I could share this with you. That is Jimmy from Spokane, 689 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: Washington and Jimmy, I want to just follow up and 690 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 1: Josh with a recommendation of my own. If you're a 691 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: fan of Scorpions, I recommend that you go look immediately 692 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,439 Speaker 1: at the video for the song from nineteen seventy eight, 693 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: sales of. 694 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 2: Charon Charon like the river Sticks Boatkeeper. 695 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, char On sales of char On ha Ron. Yeah. 696 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: If you only know the Scorpions from like the early eighties, 697 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,839 Speaker 1: then check out this gym from nineteen seventy eight because 698 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: it's awesome. 699 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we've got a couple of minutes left 700 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 2: before we hit forty five, so I am going to 701 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,439 Speaker 2: tell you about a movie that I watched last night 702 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy nine called Tourist Trap. 703 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Jack? I don't think so. 704 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 2: It is the definition of camp without intentionally being camp, 705 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 2: without being annoying camp. It's one of the best schlocky 706 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: late seventies horror movies I've ever seen in my life. 707 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 2: It is really good, all right, what you're in nineteen 708 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 2: seventy seventy nine. You can stream it online somewhere looking 709 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:02,839 Speaker 2: at it, and if you have to pay for it, 710 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 2: please watch it. It's it's a really good one. It's 711 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 2: like a highly watchable, enjoyable movie. And there's some surprising 712 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 2: little like directorial like bits in there that you're like, well, 713 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 2: it seems sophisticated for this. 714 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: Movie, Tany Roberts and Chuck Connors, aren't it. That's enough 715 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 1: for me. 716 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 2: That's all you need right there. 717 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, ninety minutes also perfect. 718 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so go forth look up sales of Charun video 719 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 2: by Scorpions. 720 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you need to watch that one. You're you're gonna 721 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: love it. 722 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 2: I still need to watch your whistling video that you 723 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:34,600 Speaker 2: send me. 724 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: Watch that. 725 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 2: I know, I feel like a jerk. I'm sorry. 726 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: All right, you got you got work to do. 727 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 2: I do well. I'll well while I do that. Uh, 728 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 2: you guys, go out and send us a listener mail. 729 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 2: You can send it off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio 730 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 2: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 731 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 732 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.