Speaker 1: The volume.
Speaker 2: Get in on the action with Draft Kings Sportsbook, an
Speaker 2: official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers who
Speaker 2: deposit five dollars or more can get a no sweat
Speaker 2: bet up to one thousand dollars back in a bonus bet.
Speaker 2: I was looking at NBA futures this morning. The Golden
Speaker 2: State Warriors are plus fifty five hundred right now on
Speaker 2: DraftKings to win the title, so if you believe in them,
Speaker 2: that's a big number. And Denver I have Denver is
Speaker 2: my championship favorite. And there's still the second best odds
Speaker 2: on DraftKings right now at plus four to fifty. So
Speaker 2: lots of good NBA bets to look at over the
Speaker 2: course of the end of the season. Download the Draft
Speaker 2: Kings Sportsbook app now and use code hoops. New customers
Speaker 2: can get a no sweat bet up to one thousand
Speaker 2: dollars if your first bet loses only on DraftKings Sportsbook
Speaker 2: with code Hoops.
Speaker 1: That's hops.
Speaker 2: The Crown is yours gambling problem called one eight hundred
Speaker 2: gambler or in West Virginia visit www dot one eight
Speaker 2: hundred gambler dot net. In New York call eight seven
Speaker 2: seven eight hope and why, or text hope and Why
Speaker 2: to four six seven three six y nine. In Connecticut,
Speaker 2: help is available for problem gambling called eight eight eight
Speaker 2: seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG
Speaker 2: dot org. Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino
Speaker 2: and Resort in Kansas twenty one plus age varies by jurisdiction.
Speaker 2: Void in Ontario one. No sweat bet per new customer
Speaker 2: issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial
Speaker 2: losing bet. Bonus bets expire one hundred and sixty eight
Speaker 2: hours after issuance. See dkang dot com slash promos for
Speaker 2: deposit wagering and eligibility restrictions, terms and responsible gambling resources.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
Speaker 2: an incredible week. We have a very special show today,
Speaker 2: a podcast I've been looking forward to for a long time,
Speaker 2: ever since I got into an argument with Sam on
Speaker 2: the phone the other day. Sam Vassini from the Athletic
Speaker 2: covers the NBA good friend of mine, a person who's
Speaker 2: been very important to me as have been beginning this
Speaker 2: journey into this industry, someone who's more of a grizzled
Speaker 2: vet who can help guide me along the way. But
Speaker 2: in addition to that, is also one of the smartest
Speaker 2: basketball minds that I talked to, someone that I learned
Speaker 2: from every single time we talk. And we were talking
Speaker 2: the other day and we got into an argument about
Speaker 2: who would win a playoff series between the Thunder and
Speaker 2: the Lakers if it started tomorrow, and it was passioned,
Speaker 2: it was heated, and finally we were like, dude, we
Speaker 2: just got to get on a podcast and we got
Speaker 2: to hash out all the contenders. And also, I kind
Speaker 2: of view this stretch right after the All Star break
Speaker 2: as the kind of like the halfway point, not in
Speaker 2: the regular season, but kind of between where we start
Speaker 2: in training camp to someone hoisting the trophy in June.
Speaker 2: And so I thought today would be the perfect time
Speaker 2: for us to really take a closer look at our
Speaker 2: list of contenders. And so, without any further ado, Sam,
Speaker 2: how are you, man. It's good to see you. How's
Speaker 2: your year going cover in the league.
Speaker 3: It's great, man, I'm super happy to be here. As
Speaker 3: you know, I think the world of you. I would
Speaker 3: recommend everybody listening to this to subscribe to this channel.
Speaker 3: I don't really listen to other basketball podcasts, watch other
Speaker 3: basketball content. Jason is like one of like one or
Speaker 3: two that I actually watch and listen to and view
Speaker 3: because I love his perspective on all of this. So
Speaker 3: I really would recommend everybody watching this subscribe to Jason's channel.
Speaker 3: He's the best.
Speaker 1: You're too kind.
Speaker 2: Without any further ado, though, let's get into the basketball. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I would argue this is an interesting season
Speaker 2: in the sense that, like there's very clearly a top
Speaker 2: tier or tiers of teams. However, you could like legitimately
Speaker 2: sit down as a fan of almost half the league
Speaker 2: and be like, we got a shot at this thing,
Speaker 2: and so we made our lists. And if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 2: you told me you had fourteen teams at major lists.
Speaker 3: Correct, I did, but I got by the time I
Speaker 3: got to the end of it, it was like kind
Speaker 3: of loosened, you know, amorphous. I wasn't. I think there
Speaker 3: are fewer teams that have a chance to win the
Speaker 3: title than fourteen, but yeah.
Speaker 2: I had thirteen before we go into our actual list, though,
Speaker 2: I have four teams that have won at least thirty
Speaker 2: one games, but that I think have no shot to
Speaker 2: win the title, so I'll go one at a time through.
Speaker 2: I mean, you tell me if you agree I said
Speaker 2: the Cleveland Cavaliers have no shot to win the title.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have the calves. I think I had the
Speaker 3: calves a little bit higher than that them at twelve,
Speaker 3: so a little bit higher, but not terribly far off.
Speaker 3: I think that, like structurally, it's a little bit too
Speaker 3: easy to take advantage of their deficiency. I am interested
Speaker 3: to see if the max Struss addition helps to at
Speaker 3: least minimize some of the issues that New York presented
Speaker 3: them in the playoffs last year. But I think that
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the mobiley Allen combination
Speaker 3: is going to be really, really difficult to manage in
Speaker 3: the playoffs for the Cavs. I think there are too
Speaker 3: many schematic disadvantages. And I really worry about the defensive
Speaker 3: side as well. Even though they've been elite defensively, I
Speaker 3: do worry that you can really take advantage of the
Speaker 3: Garland Mitchell backcourt in a real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Donovan Mitchell's defensive season this year has been really
Speaker 2: impressive to me, and it's made me like a little
Speaker 2: bit less concerned about the backcourt long term than I was. Like,
Speaker 2: the only universe in which a Garland Mitchell backcourt would
Speaker 2: have worked long term, in my opinion, would have involved
Speaker 2: Donovan becoming a not just a plus defender, but a
Speaker 2: good defender. And I think he's been a good defender
Speaker 2: this year. I think Dean Wade and some of the
Speaker 2: two way play that he's brought to this to the
Speaker 2: wing forward position has been super valuable. But again, everything
Speaker 2: to me comes down to the Mobley Allen front court,
Speaker 2: and I thought people kind of got off the scent
Speaker 2: a little bit last year with the focus on shooting.
Speaker 2: Not that shooting isn't an important element to this team's
Speaker 2: ability to have success in pick and roll and stop
Speaker 2: teams from guarding at three on two, but to me,
Speaker 2: it has more to do with Evan Mobley's offensive development
Speaker 2: and the simple fact that, especially in the short role,
Speaker 2: he's just not very good. I've advocated even for swapping
Speaker 2: it and just having Jared Allen run the short roles
Speaker 2: and having Evan Mobley kind of operate more the dunker
Speaker 2: spot to try to mix it up. But the bottom
Speaker 2: line is is like, when you start to really get
Speaker 2: to me, The Cleveland Cavaliers are an extremely well coached
Speaker 2: team that plays extremely hard, that thrives in these middle
Speaker 2: portions of the season when effort and energy kind of
Speaker 2: waxes and wanes more for other teams, And so I
Speaker 2: think they're nowhere near as good as their record, and
Speaker 2: I gave them no chance. My second one was the
Speaker 2: New Orleans Pelicans. I don't think they have a real
Speaker 2: chance to win the title.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 3: I agree with you. They were like fourteen fifteen on
Speaker 3: my list, like in that back end of the amorphous list.
Speaker 3: I had them with a lower chance than the Calves.
Speaker 3: The Calves at least like play hard, and I can
Speaker 3: see I'm not saying the Pelicans don't, but I can
Speaker 3: see the Calves like at least winning a playoff series.
Speaker 3: Maybe if they get a super advantageous matchup in the
Speaker 3: second round, maybe they can get past that. The Pelicans.
Speaker 3: I really have enjoyed Brandon Ingram in the playoffs generally.
Speaker 3: I think his game translates well there weirdly, but it's
Speaker 3: still the combination of brandon Ingram in Zion. They've been
Speaker 3: running these point Zion combinations from time to time that
Speaker 3: I think have been somewhat effective, but I still don't
Speaker 3: love the fit between the two of those guys. I
Speaker 3: still think they haven't figured out how to elevate each
Speaker 3: other in a way that makes them better than what
Speaker 3: their singular skills are. And this team just frankly, is
Speaker 3: not talented enough compared to the top teams in the league.
Speaker 3: That's the reality, and it's going to be difficult for them,
Speaker 3: I think, to come up with lineup combinations in the
Speaker 3: front court, in the back court in ways that allow
Speaker 3: you to defend and score in the playoffs. They're a
Speaker 3: team filled with one way players right now.
Speaker 2: Is the biggest issue specifically in the front court, and
Speaker 2: like that, that's death in the NBA playoffs. To me,
Speaker 2: they're like a worse version of the Clippers. They're a
Speaker 2: team that has a lot of length on the perimeter.
Speaker 2: They've got a lot of guys like that you think
Speaker 2: of as you know, driving kick guys that can but
Speaker 2: that on the other end, can also compete on the perimeter,
Speaker 2: like we've seen the Pelicans beat really good teams before,
Speaker 2: where they lock in on the perimeter and they're driving
Speaker 2: kicking you to death on the other end of the floor,
Speaker 2: and specifically like like using Zion a lot. Zion has
Speaker 2: been playing a lot better as of late, getting guys
Speaker 2: like CJ. McCollum attacking closeouts more rather than constantly operating
Speaker 2: and pick and roll. I've seen a lot of good
Speaker 2: from them, but to me, like there's not there. There
Speaker 2: isn't this one big draw. It's like, do I think
Speaker 2: they defend at a championship level? No?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they're good enough in the
Speaker 1: front court.
Speaker 2: Do I think that they have a superstar offensive player
Speaker 2: that can truly just for four straight rounds just be
Speaker 2: a surgeon half court. No, I don't think they have
Speaker 2: that type of player. Do I think they have an
Speaker 2: absurd depth of talent that can overcome a lot of
Speaker 2: these issues?
Speaker 1: No, I don't.
Speaker 2: So they don't just they don't have like that ace
Speaker 2: in the hole. There are a lot of bad not
Speaker 2: bad teams, but flawed teams that were going to hit
Speaker 2: today where it's like they have this ace.
Speaker 1: In the hole.
Speaker 2: Like it's the Bucks, it's Damon Giannis, if it's the Lakers,
Speaker 2: it's Lebron James Anthony. They just don't have that like
Speaker 2: one singular, like transformatively great thing that they do. That
Speaker 2: kind of sets them apart. The third team I put
Speaker 2: on this list was the Sacramento Kinks.
Speaker 1: What about you, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, they just aren't going to be able to
Speaker 3: defend at a level of commensurate with winning a title.
Speaker 3: In my opinion. I loved their series against the Warriors
Speaker 3: last year. I thought that they really proved that their
Speaker 3: style of play has a better chance to hold up
Speaker 3: under like realistic scrutiny and in terms of like a
Speaker 3: coach adjusting against what they're trying to present to the
Speaker 3: opposing team. But again, like they just haven't fixed the
Speaker 3: defensive issue. And for as good as Demanda Sabonis has
Speaker 3: been this season, for as incredible as the combination between
Speaker 3: he and Daron Fox has been, I really need to
Speaker 3: see it from them in the playoffs at the end
Speaker 3: of the day before I trust them. That feels like,
Speaker 3: you know, TV talking point ish. But the way that
Speaker 3: Kevon Looney was able to minimize his impact on that
Speaker 3: series last year really kind of sticks in my head
Speaker 3: in a negative way. It's the same with the Cavs,
Speaker 3: Like Jared Allen like got his ass kicked last year
Speaker 3: by Mitchell Robinson in that playoff series. And Jared Allen
Speaker 3: is probably one of the most underrated players in the
Speaker 3: NBA at this point during regular season competition. He's a
Speaker 3: huge part of why they've been successful. It's kind of
Speaker 3: the same with the Kings, Like I thought that Kevon
Speaker 3: Looney marginally compared to what their commensurate values are to
Speaker 3: their team. You know, Demount Sumo has played better than
Speaker 3: Kavon Lune. He did in that series, but I thought
Speaker 3: Cavan got the better of him compared to what they
Speaker 3: needed from each of those players in that series. So
Speaker 3: it's hard for me to get that out of my mind,
Speaker 3: and it's hard for me to imagine they're going to
Speaker 3: defend it a level high enough to.
Speaker 2: Work that dropping the right shoulder and getting to that
Speaker 2: lefty hook, especially on the rolls to the rim when
Speaker 2: he kind of catches and takes that power dribble, they're
Speaker 2: just there. He just inevitably runs into a guy who's
Speaker 2: big and strong enough to kind of withstand that, and
Speaker 2: then he's a below the rim player at that point.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because we've seen this a lot
Speaker 2: in the NBA history, where like Kevin Love was this
Speaker 2: really good post up folkrum pick and pop folkrum in
Speaker 2: the regular season, and then he'd get to the postseason
Speaker 2: and he'd get his butt kicked by a big, strong forward,
Speaker 2: or like Julius Randall's kind of this kind of guy too,
Speaker 2: Like that that big forward who's not really exceptionally athletically gifted,
Speaker 2: but that relies on a lot of bully ball but
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily the best touch, or that kind of guy
Speaker 2: can cut sometimes struggle when they run into super physical environments.
Speaker 2: And I tend to agree, like, what's you look at
Speaker 2: the Kings. I was pulling these numbers the other day.
Speaker 2: When they defend, they win, that's the crazy part. Like
Speaker 2: when they defend, they win, and when they don't, they're
Speaker 2: not good and offensively, they're not good enough offensively to
Speaker 2: just simply outscore teams, And that has ended up being
Speaker 2: the issue more often than not, Like like they'll have
Speaker 2: a night like they did against the Nuggets the other
Speaker 2: night where they can really defend and they have perimeter
Speaker 2: talent to actually they have enough speed on the perimeter
Speaker 2: to actually be pretty good in rotation and to be
Speaker 2: pretty good at the point of attack when they want
Speaker 2: to be. But it's just never been a consistent and
Speaker 2: it's it's crazy too with Mike Brown as the coach
Speaker 2: that that hasn't become more of an identity for them
Speaker 2: in the long run. The last team I had on
Speaker 2: this list was the Indiana Pacers. I love Tyrese Halliburton.
Speaker 2: He's legitimately, in my opinion, like a transcendently great offensive player.
Speaker 2: I think some of his recent struggles are more just
Speaker 2: classic soft tissue stuff, like you come back from a hammy,
Speaker 2: you don't really take that aggressive step like you normally do.
Speaker 2: Like I think, I tend to think that he's on
Speaker 2: that trajectory to be the next like truly great offensive engine.
Speaker 2: And I think the Siakam fit is beautiful. There love
Speaker 2: everything about it. I just I just think within the
Speaker 2: scope of this season, they're not physically imposing enough or
Speaker 2: good enough in any unit to win the title.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Yeah, the Haliburton injury. I hope
Speaker 3: that he's used this, you know, little week that he's
Speaker 3: going to get. I know that he had so many
Speaker 3: events that he had to do at All Star this weekend,
Speaker 3: being like the hometown hero basically like it felt like
Speaker 3: he did everything he could to get himself out there,
Speaker 3: like probably did not get the rest that his body
Speaker 3: necessarily needed. Hopefully he'll get like just days off of
Speaker 3: physical activity in some way that allows that hamstring to
Speaker 3: recover a little bit. I agree with you in terms
Speaker 3: of the soft tissue thing. He just hasn't quite been there.
Speaker 3: But I believe in him in big moments, as we
Speaker 3: saw during the nd season tournament. I think that super skill,
Speaker 3: super decision making, great shooting. Those skills translate to the
Speaker 3: highest level, and I think that he'll be great in
Speaker 3: the settings in the playoffs. I do worry a little
Speaker 3: bit about just for this season, not long term. This season,
Speaker 3: the synergy between he and Siakam and trying to figure
Speaker 3: out the ways to make their defense at the highest
Speaker 3: level it possibly can be with Siakam and Turner in
Speaker 3: the front court, that synergy is just missing a little
Speaker 3: bit right now. Maybe they can get it there by
Speaker 3: the time that April rolls around. I don't know that
Speaker 3: they would be like a zero percent chance to meet
Speaker 3: just in case the Siakam Turner thing like turns into
Speaker 3: being able to hold up their defense on their shoulders
Speaker 3: in a substantial way. But I think you're safe to
Speaker 3: keep them out of this conversation just for now. I
Speaker 3: do think though, that there are some interesting schematic advantages
Speaker 3: that they can create both in the half court and
Speaker 3: with their transition opportunities in the full court.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have a follow up for you, because you're
Speaker 2: way more connected than me around the league. What are
Speaker 2: you hearing about the Pacers in their long term vision
Speaker 2: for the surrounding players around Halliburton and Siakam? So, for instance,
Speaker 2: like do they view do they view Ben Matherin and
Speaker 2: like a like an Aaron Nee Smith is good enough
Speaker 2: at the two and three? Do they view Miles Turner
Speaker 2: as their long term solution at center?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Where are they at as a team building as far
Speaker 2: as team building goes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I haven't heard a crazy amount about the
Speaker 3: surrounding pieces. I know that they are very excited about
Speaker 3: Pascal Siakam and the ability to pair him with Tyre's
Speaker 3: Halliburton long term. I know that they love the fit
Speaker 3: of Miles Turner with Pascal Siakam. Part of what the
Speaker 3: Raptors struggled with spacing wise is that Siakam, you know,
Speaker 3: up until this season, with that little stretch he had
Speaker 3: before he got moved, hadn't really shot the ball well
Speaker 3: at all for the previous four years that he'd been there. Right,
Speaker 3: That led to him being in the mid post and
Speaker 3: Yaka pertl being willing to like short roll into that
Speaker 3: middle like area at the foul line extent. And then
Speaker 3: you have Scotty Barnes who loves to operate in that
Speaker 3: area as well, and it led to a condensed difficult
Speaker 3: court to deal with with Miles Turner, who can go
Speaker 3: out and space the floor in a semi real way.
Speaker 3: Like teams don't ignore him out there. They tend to
Speaker 3: at least try to get a late close out on
Speaker 3: him when he shoots threes and picking pops and when
Speaker 3: he spaces to the corner. I think that they can
Speaker 3: really operate in an intriguing way using Pascal Siakam Tyre's
Speaker 3: Halliburton you know one four ball screens. The thing though,
Speaker 3: that I think they're going to miss for this season particularly,
Speaker 3: and this speeds into the idea of their kind of
Speaker 3: pieces around these guys. Buddy Heald was a sneaky, really
Speaker 3: important thing for them, just schematically he didn't have his
Speaker 3: best season this year for whatever reason, but the way
Speaker 3: that they would utilize him in the gravity that he
Speaker 3: possessed around the court for the Pacers. I mean Tyre's Halliburton,
Speaker 3: Like he said this as soon as they moved him.
Speaker 3: He's played basically every game of his career up until
Speaker 3: you know the trade deadline with Buddy held on the court,
Speaker 3: and the level of spacing that Heal creates because you
Speaker 3: have to stay attached to him at all times across
Speaker 3: the court is so essential. It is so so dangerous
Speaker 3: for an opposing team. It's why I love the Buddy
Speaker 3: Heeld acquisition for the Philadelphia seventy six ers. Like, we'll
Speaker 3: talk about that when we get to the seventy six ers. Maybe,
Speaker 3: but I wonder if we get some diminishing returns more
Speaker 3: than what people expect by the Pacers moving Healed, and
Speaker 3: maybe that might be the best case for you, thinking
Speaker 3: that they're a no chance team. The fact that they
Speaker 3: moved a guy that is actually like a really important
Speaker 3: schematic cog for them in the playoffs. The fact they
Speaker 3: moved him is really going to hinder what they do.
Speaker 3: But long term, I think Matherin, they really like Ben Mathurin,
Speaker 3: they really like Jaris Walker, they actually really really like
Speaker 3: Andrew Nemhart as well. I mean, I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 3: here and say that, Like they think Nemhart is a
Speaker 3: long term starter necessarily, but they love having Nemhards, Like
Speaker 3: you're either your fifth man out on the court, you're
Speaker 3: sixth man something like that. A guy that takes on
Speaker 3: tougher defensive assignments from time to time, makes great decisions,
Speaker 3: can shoot it a little bit. They liked a lot
Speaker 3: of their younger pieces, and I think they'll be aggressive
Speaker 3: trying to go out and get the final piece next
Speaker 3: to their Haliburton, Siakham Turner core. But beyond that, I
Speaker 3: think it remains to be seen where they'll go. The
Speaker 3: big piece of the Siacam deal, though, is that they
Speaker 3: didn't move any of Matherin, Jarris Walker, Andrew Nemhart, and
Speaker 3: thus they still have assets to move in order to
Speaker 3: fill out that roster around them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Buddy Heel piece is interesting because that's actually
Speaker 2: one of their biggest pet actions. Like the two actions
Speaker 2: they were on most frequently are Haliburton Turner pick and
Speaker 2: Pop and then basically a ghost screen with Buddy Heeled,
Speaker 2: which screws everybody up because they can't figure out how
Speaker 2: to guard that specific action. I do understand it from
Speaker 2: the big picture of like a big picture you can't
Speaker 2: have a Haliburton heel, but backcourt, you just can't, like
Speaker 2: there's not enough that you're not good enough defensively in
Speaker 2: my opinion, at the point of attack in terms of
Speaker 2: a big picture goal for that type of situation, ideally
Speaker 2: you're hoping for a guy like Ben Mathin to kind
Speaker 2: of develop into a better defender than he has been,
Speaker 2: and he's been really bad. But anyway, we spent enough
Speaker 2: time on these lower level teams. I just I wanted
Speaker 2: to kind of get that fleshed out, just from the
Speaker 2: same point of the way we kind of constructed our
Speaker 2: lists the way this is the way that I'm going
Speaker 2: to do it, and who knows how the hell this
Speaker 2: will go. So we're just gonna we're just gonna try
Speaker 2: and see what happens. I have my list and I'm
Speaker 2: going to go through one at a time. Sam's going
Speaker 2: to tell me whether or not he agrees, and if
Speaker 2: he disagrees, he's going to tell me whether or not
Speaker 2: that team should be higher or lower, and he'll give
Speaker 2: the case for why my first tier is bonafide traditional
Speaker 2: top tier contenders. These are teams that, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: check all of the boxes that you hope to have
Speaker 2: checked for a team that typically will go on to
Speaker 2: win the title. Number One, I have the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 2: I think they're by far the best combination of half
Speaker 2: court offense and defense that we know translates to the
Speaker 2: playoff setting. The record is not as bad as it
Speaker 2: looks when you factor in how much time Jamal Murray
Speaker 2: has missed. As a matter of fact, they're twenty eight
Speaker 2: to twelve when Jamal Murray has played. That's a seventy
Speaker 2: percent win percentage. That's basically what the Minnesota Timberwolves have been.
Speaker 2: They've definitely had some kind of like flat efforts this
Speaker 2: year where they've gone out and just been blitzed for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, But that, to me is kind of a
Speaker 2: typical part of being the target on your back, defending
Speaker 2: champ type of type of situation. The bench is an issue,
Speaker 2: but it was an issue last year, Like they were
Speaker 2: around eleven points negative net with Jokic off the floor
Speaker 2: last year. They're around eleven points negative net without Jokic
Speaker 2: this year, according to Cleaning the Glass. So like, I
Speaker 2: think hyper focusing on that misses the point that it
Speaker 2: was literally a non issue in the postseason. Last year,
Speaker 2: they just scaled the minutes up and they were so
Speaker 2: dominant that it never ended up being an issue. So
Speaker 2: to me, like I'll actually place it a little bit
Speaker 2: more aggressively. If the Nuggets starting five is healthy, I
Speaker 2: would I would be surprised if they didn't win the title.
Speaker 2: That's how confident I am in this team. So I'm curious,
Speaker 2: even if you have the Nuggets at one, you could
Speaker 2: at least tell me if you don't view them as
Speaker 2: strongly as I do.
Speaker 3: I do have the Nuggets at one. I think they
Speaker 3: are the clear favorite right now to win the title.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about I think the team that maybe both
Speaker 3: of us will have next or in the top three,
Speaker 3: I would have this team in the top tier with
Speaker 3: the Nuggets as well. The Nuggets so far have played
Speaker 3: a top ten shrink the schedule. They've played a tougher
Speaker 3: schedule than any of the other Timberwolves, Clippers, Thunder as well.
Speaker 3: They've played tougher schedule than any of those teams. So
Speaker 3: when you look at the record, plus they've had the
Speaker 3: Murray injury, I'm not concerned about what their record looks
Speaker 3: like right now. I think they're going to be one
Speaker 3: hundred percent fine once the playoffs hit. My only concern
Speaker 3: for Denver is they didn't make a real move at
Speaker 3: the deadline, obviously, and this team still does not have
Speaker 3: amazing depth. If somebody was to go down, if a
Speaker 3: even like if a Contavious Caldwell Pope or an Aaron
Speaker 3: Gordon goes down, I do worry a little bit about,
Speaker 3: you know, elevating somebody like Christian Brown or Peyton Watson
Speaker 3: into the starting lineup and then having to replace those
Speaker 3: you know, let's call it like twenty minutes that one
Speaker 3: of those two provide with somebody like deep on their bench,
Speaker 3: that I really would have like concerns about in a
Speaker 3: playoff setting. So that I think is the one point
Speaker 3: of contention. But if we're starting to get into concerns
Speaker 3: about that, that's the sign of an elite team, a
Speaker 3: truly fantastic basketball team. They have the best player in
Speaker 3: the world in NICOLEA. Jokic. They have constructed a roster.
Speaker 3: Calvin Booth has done a fantastic job building an organization
Speaker 3: that fits around their best player to the nth degree.
Speaker 3: He elevates everybody. They elevate themselves beyond what they're capable of.
Speaker 3: I think Jamal Murray when he's been on the court
Speaker 3: this season has been outstanding and was all star quality.
Speaker 3: So I have no real concerns about the Denver Nuggets
Speaker 3: outside of potentially even if one of their starting quality
Speaker 3: non star players gets hurt, what does that look like
Speaker 3: in terms of their lineup flexibility in the playoffs?
Speaker 1: So I one hundred percent agree.
Speaker 2: For the record, I've actually done rants on my show
Speaker 2: before about how I think it's like. If you, to
Speaker 2: Calvin Booth's credit, I can't think of a lineup you
Speaker 2: probably have to go back to like the twenty fourteen
Speaker 2: Spurs to find a lineup that has a larger gap
Speaker 2: between like the individual reputations of all five players kind
Speaker 2: of combined versus the basketball effectiveness of their five together.
Speaker 2: Like to put it, simply, like the some, their actual
Speaker 2: tangible greatness so far supersedes the some of their parts,
Speaker 2: and to his credit, they he just constructed, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: a perfectly complimentary starting five.
Speaker 1: Now the counter to that would be.
Speaker 2: Because I agree, you take KCP out of the equation,
Speaker 2: you take your best guard defender out of the equation,
Speaker 2: at least out of the starting group and a very
Speaker 2: very very important spacing guy, second side action guy. Kcp's
Speaker 2: always been one of my favorite transition guards in the
Speaker 2: league too. Aaron Gordon, just the job he did on
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant and on Lebron James, like even going on
Speaker 2: to Jimmy Butler, like he was just incredibly important on
Speaker 2: the defensive end of the floor anchoring them last year. Like,
Speaker 2: I have one hundred percent agree with you. Here's the thing.
Speaker 2: If the Celtics lust kersops porzingis, what would you say,
Speaker 2: they fundamentally become a significantly lesser team. If they lost
Speaker 2: Derek White, they fundamentally become a significantly lesser team. Yet,
Speaker 2: like go to the Timberwolves. It's like, if they lose
Speaker 2: Jayden McDaniels, fundamentally lesser team. Mike Conley is so important
Speaker 2: to them in their half court execution, fundamentally lesser team.
Speaker 2: The Clippers, you take any of their core guys, Terrence
Speaker 2: Man out, all of a sudden, it's a whole lot
Speaker 2: more Norman Powell and Russell Westbrook. You take you know,
Speaker 2: Paul George out, you take James Hard and now you
Speaker 2: get the points. So like I do think that even
Speaker 2: though I agree with you that I don't think the
Speaker 2: Nuggets starting five can withstand an injury really to anybody
Speaker 2: in that group.
Speaker 1: I suppose if you had to pick.
Speaker 2: One, it probably be Michael Porter Junior, right, and then
Speaker 2: Peyton Watson slides into that spot. But even then, like that,
Speaker 2: he's such an important part fundamentally of guarding actions two
Speaker 2: on two versus three on two against Denver, Like you
Speaker 2: just you just have a better chance. Peyton Watson, he's
Speaker 2: gotten good at that slot, cut out out of the
Speaker 2: weak side wing and moving along the baseline, like he's
Speaker 2: learned how to play off the ball, but he just
Speaker 2: isn't the same level of Like Michael Porter Junior is
Speaker 2: one of the best off ball players the entire league,
Speaker 2: so like he's even a very good offensive rebounder. Like
Speaker 2: like I to me, to me, all five of those
Speaker 2: guys are a vital importance and so yeah, like I
Speaker 2: I agree that they have a lack of depth, but
Speaker 2: I just don't think that that necessarily. I just think
Speaker 2: it's unfair to nitpick that without necessarily pointing out that
Speaker 2: the same exists for any of these other teams. So
Speaker 2: I think the perfect way to transition this here is
Speaker 2: to go to my number two, which is the Boston Celtics,
Speaker 2: And I guess let's start with this, Like I think
Speaker 2: a Celtics Nuggets finals is pretty likely. I think it's
Speaker 2: pretty likely. Uh I, So in that matchup, I think.
Speaker 3: I'm higher on one team, Like I'm.
Speaker 1: Interesting with the Clippers.
Speaker 3: I'm higher on the Clippers than I think.
Speaker 2: Okay, I had the Clippers at number three, and let's
Speaker 2: hit the Clippers.
Speaker 3: See, like I think the Clippers. I think the Clippers
Speaker 3: can lose on a Norman Powell or Terrence Man. There
Speaker 3: are somebody like that. They can't lose Zubot because Zubots
Speaker 3: is like the real size guy. I think they can
Speaker 3: lose one of those guys and still be Okay.
Speaker 2: Terrence Man takes their primary point of attack assignments and
Speaker 2: puts these long athletes off the ball. I find it,
Speaker 2: and then it just like all of a sudden, It's
Speaker 2: like fifteen more minutes of Russell Westbrook every single night too,
Speaker 2: which is which is terrifying to me a little bit.
Speaker 2: I Okay, let let's let's let's let's hit the Clippers.
Speaker 1: Let's do the Celtics, all right, Let's do the Celtics.
Speaker 3: First, Yeah, and we'll get there.
Speaker 2: Let me just let me just start by asking you
Speaker 2: a question. Why are the Boston Celtics twenty seventh and
Speaker 2: paint points scored per game?
Speaker 1: Why? Why?
Speaker 2: Why do they do that? Why are they third in
Speaker 2: pull up jumpers taken? Why are they why do they
Speaker 2: take the most threason? Like, why are they as athletically
Speaker 2: gifted as they are so perimeter oriented? Can you explain
Speaker 2: that to me?
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, so, Like they are athletically gifted, but a
Speaker 3: lot of their players are not like perimeter touch guys. Right,
Speaker 3: Jason Tatum has never been a super high end like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go get paint touches, drive and kick. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go get paint touches like he's a you know,
Speaker 3: if I'm gonna get the ball, i might get a
Speaker 3: post up and try to bully somebody in a mismatch
Speaker 3: onto the block, but I'm probably gonna pull up more
Speaker 3: than I'm gonna try and get all the way to
Speaker 3: the rim that way. Uh. Jalen Brown like can be
Speaker 3: a real paint touch guy. I would say he's there one,
Speaker 3: But like Drew Holliday is thirty three, thirty four years old,
Speaker 3: at this point hasn't really been that guy the last
Speaker 3: couple of years. Derek White has never been like a
Speaker 3: super high end paint touch guy. Christoph Sporzingis has always
Speaker 3: been a perimeter big. It kind of does line up
Speaker 3: to me in terms of that. But I also can
Speaker 3: see why this would be a concern because we've seen,
Speaker 3: you know, in general, the last couple of years under
Speaker 3: Joe Mazzula, their late game offense has been a slog
Speaker 3: from time to time. The ability to get a paint
Speaker 3: touch is a real combo breaker, a counter breaker, which
Speaker 3: is why we'll talk about the Thunder and this is
Speaker 3: what people I think are waiting for after your intro.
Speaker 3: Why I do like the Thunder in some way with
Speaker 3: their late game offense to be able to consistently get
Speaker 3: interesting looks. The Celtics have struggled to consistently get interesting looks.
Speaker 3: The Timberwolves this year another team that has struggled to
Speaker 3: consistently get good looks around around the rim, certainly from
Speaker 3: different scenarios in late game situations. So that would be
Speaker 3: my one concern with Boston. Can they consistently find late
Speaker 3: game offense that works for them. We need to also
Speaker 3: call it out too. This is a truly elite offense.
Speaker 3: I mean they have like a one to twenty two
Speaker 3: offensive raiding right now. They are elite on that end
Speaker 3: because Jason Tatum is incredible. Jason Tatum's pull up game
Speaker 3: has really shifted over the course of I would say,
Speaker 3: what the last month and a half or so, he's
Speaker 3: been outstanding knocking down pull up threes. I think he's
Speaker 3: at like thirty nine percent like the start of January
Speaker 3: something like that with pull up threes. That really transforms
Speaker 3: their potential on offense in late game situations. Having the
Speaker 3: spacing of Christaps Porzingis has totally transformed everything that they
Speaker 3: can do on the offensive en in addition to being
Speaker 3: able to play big with Porzingis and Al Horford and
Speaker 3: be able to guard a lot of different things, stay
Speaker 3: big on defense while having five out spacing, which is
Speaker 3: so important to what they want to do. Yeah. Look,
Speaker 3: I love the Celtics. I think they've been fantastic this season.
Speaker 3: I would have them, you know, number two, number three,
Speaker 3: I basically have them like two to a right now.
Speaker 3: With the team we're going to talk about momentarily here
Speaker 3: a defend at the point of attack at a super
Speaker 3: high level. They can play big, they're flexible lineup wise. Again,
Speaker 3: they're just not that deep and probably can't withstand much
Speaker 3: in terms of injuries. But yeah, the Celtics are an
Speaker 3: elite team and they are clearly the favorite to come
Speaker 3: out of the Eastern Conference right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of trolling a little bit there with
Speaker 2: the way I presented you that question. I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people Galaxy bring the Celtics a little bit
Speaker 2: with the standpoint is like, well watch this.
Speaker 1: You know, they're clearly bad.
Speaker 2: At this, and it's like, well, they're fucking awesome and
Speaker 2: everything else, you know, like it does people definitely Galaxy
Speaker 2: brain them a little bit.
Speaker 1: I love the.
Speaker 2: Fact that they have so much depth at very specifically
Speaker 2: important skill sets, Like they have a depth of perimeter
Speaker 2: defenders at the guard position, they have a depth of
Speaker 2: perimeter defenders at the wing position. They've got a legitimate
Speaker 2: shot blocker and chrisops Porzingis. They've got a guy in
Speaker 2: Al Horford that can guard some of the bigger post
Speaker 2: players in the league and usually tends to cause problems
Speaker 2: for them. You know, they've got guys that can beat
Speaker 2: mismatches out of the post They've got guys that can
Speaker 2: beat mismatches out of ISO. They can play driving kick basketball.
Speaker 2: The thing, the big thing that I'm gonna be watching
Speaker 2: with them down the stretch of the season, because like
Speaker 2: they have like an incredibly easy schedule down the stretch.
Speaker 2: They're pretty tough here for the next few weeks and
Speaker 2: then it lightens up basically the rest of the way.
Speaker 2: They are already six games up on the rest of
Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference. There are four games up on Minnesota
Speaker 2: for the number one overall seed. They have some slush
Speaker 2: here to like really treat the last twenty something games
Speaker 2: as almost like as almost like a testing ground for
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff I'd like to see them work on.
Speaker 1: Essentially.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it needs to be a different
Speaker 2: offensive configuration entirely or just an unapproach, but like to me,
Speaker 2: they are because they their offense is not just legitimate,
Speaker 2: It's been really good regardless of matchup. They've also been
Speaker 2: one of the very best offenses in the league against
Speaker 2: top ten defenses. They have had no issues scoring the
Speaker 2: basketball in the large sample, but they have had issues
Speaker 2: scoring the basketball in this small sample. What I mean
Speaker 2: by that is they've had games where they go broke
Speaker 2: and they look like shit, and a big part of
Speaker 2: and a big part of it, like just recently in
Speaker 2: this last month, it's like the Clippers game, it's the
Speaker 2: Nuggets game. It's like these big, high profile games where
Speaker 2: it just seems like none of the shots can fall
Speaker 2: and so might.
Speaker 3: By the way, I love that you didn't mention the Lakers.
Speaker 3: That's the obvious one that came to mind for me.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny though, Like I don't even look
Speaker 2: at the Lakers as one of those hot teams anymore.
Speaker 2: So it's like, I know I've become such a defeatist
Speaker 2: about them. We'll see. But when it comes to the
Speaker 2: way that they've configured their offense, like for instance, like
Speaker 2: Tatum is shooting the pull up jump shot better, but
Speaker 2: he we're talking like forty five percent of his shot
Speaker 2: diet his pull up jump shots, Like that's a hefty
Speaker 2: chunk of his like, and when you factor in that
Speaker 2: he's taken a few catch and shoot jumpers every game,
Speaker 2: like more than half of his game is jump shooting.
Speaker 2: And this is a guy that I agree with you
Speaker 2: that that's kind of who he is as a player.
Speaker 2: I agree, But this is also one of the most
Speaker 2: physically gifted forwards we have in the league.
Speaker 1: I'm saying he needs to change, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm saying he needs to.
Speaker 3: Or he just needs to be like the best shooters
Speaker 3: shooter the league like it needs to be, which he's not.
Speaker 3: So like Kawhi Leonard gets away with this, Like Kawhi
Speaker 3: Leonard takes like you know what, two or three shots
Speaker 3: at the rim per game and lives off of a
Speaker 3: diet of mid range jumpers and occasional three pointers and
Speaker 3: still shoots a billion percent from the field approximately. So like,
Speaker 3: that's that's the level that Jason Tatum needs to get to.
Speaker 3: He either needs to be that guy or he needs
Speaker 3: to be able to get to the rim in the
Speaker 3: way they it's.
Speaker 2: For the record, I think that that kit. I think
Speaker 2: Tatum can undergo a little bit of that transition in
Speaker 2: the sense that, like what makes Kawhi such an outstanding
Speaker 2: mid range jump shooter is he uses his strength to
Speaker 2: get to spots closer to the rim, and whereas like
Speaker 2: Tatum takes highly difficult, like longer distance pull up jump
Speaker 2: shots and so between the leaning on the pull up
Speaker 2: jump shot between the team wide leaning on like the
Speaker 2: they're they're third in pull up jump shots as a team.
Speaker 2: They lead the league in three point shots attempted. As
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, they're twenty seventh in points in the
Speaker 2: paint per game. It has added a huge element of
Speaker 2: variance to the way they play, and so as a
Speaker 2: result of that, they are capable of having games. And
Speaker 2: I know that like a lot of the analytics guys
Speaker 2: just agree with me on this, but I do believe
Speaker 2: that shooting is contagious. I do believe that like when
Speaker 2: a team starts missing, it gets in the head of
Speaker 2: the team and like everyone starts to kind of get
Speaker 2: tight and their hands get sweaty and like.
Speaker 3: And I it's a confidence exact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I do think that stuff matters, and
Speaker 2: so like I think the if the Celtics lose, it'll
Speaker 2: look like what it looked like in these games we
Speaker 2: saw in the last month. It'll be a big game, five,
Speaker 2: game six against a Milwaukee or somebody, or the Knicks
Speaker 2: I'm pretty high on. We'll talk about in a little bit,
Speaker 2: or a big game in the in the finals against
Speaker 2: the Nuggets where it's like or against the Clippers or
Speaker 2: somebody like that where it's like they miss five or
Speaker 2: six in a row and it's like it almost they
Speaker 2: almost start to get a little hesitant, but they don't
Speaker 2: have this other punch that they can go to. So
Speaker 2: I just want to see I would love to see
Speaker 2: over these last twenty something games, like just an attempt
Speaker 2: to add more versatility to the way they attack on offense.
Speaker 1: To me, that would go such a long way.
Speaker 2: Like what are you gonna do in the game when
Speaker 2: we call a time out and we're down seven in
Speaker 2: the middle of the third quarter and we just missed
Speaker 2: five or six threes in a row, what are we
Speaker 2: gonna do? Are we gonna sit down and be like,
Speaker 2: hey guys, this is one of those nights we're a
Speaker 2: little in our heads. We're not making these shots. How
Speaker 2: about we, you know, spam this wedge action to get tatum,
Speaker 2: you know, like some low post touches or or porzingis,
Speaker 2: you know, whatever it is. You got to do something
Speaker 2: to just kind of like almost bake in a physical
Speaker 2: aggression to the the beginning of their offensive possessions, because
Speaker 2: then from there it might call it because then you
Speaker 2: might still get catch and shoot threes. But they'll they'll
Speaker 2: at least come out of an attempt to get the
Speaker 2: ball into the paint first. I would just like to
Speaker 2: see them try that, to me, would be a big
Speaker 2: uh like thing. I'm gonna be keeping an eye on
Speaker 2: here down the stretch. Did you have any other thoughts
Speaker 2: on the Celtics before we move on?
Speaker 3: I don't, But honestly, like that ability to be multiple
Speaker 3: on offense is why I think I'm higher on the
Speaker 3: Clippers then what many people are, and why I actually
Speaker 3: have them in the same tier as the Celtics and
Speaker 3: the Nuggets right now. Like, I think they have a
Speaker 3: real ability to be multiple on offense and have different
Speaker 3: ways to beat you in a way that they haven't
Speaker 3: had previously. Now, like we'll talk about the major factor
Speaker 3: with the Clippers here momentarily, but like I'll let you
Speaker 3: kind of take the lead on where you want to
Speaker 3: go with that conversation.
Speaker 2: Get in on the action with Draft Kings Sportsbook, an
Speaker 2: official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers who
Speaker 2: deposit five dollars or more can get a no sweat
Speaker 2: bet up to one thousand dollars back in a bonus bet.
Speaker 2: I was looking at NBA futures this morning The Golden
Speaker 2: State Warriors are plus fifty five hundred right now on
Speaker 2: DraftKings to win the title, so if you believe in them,
Speaker 2: that's a big number. And Denver I have Denver is
Speaker 2: my championship favorite. And there's still the second best odds
Speaker 2: on DraftKings right now at plus four to fifty, So
Speaker 2: lots of good NBA bets to look at over the
Speaker 2: course of the end of the season. Download the Draft
Speaker 2: Kings Sportsbook app now and use code Hoops. New customers
Speaker 2: can get a no sweat bet up to one thousand
Speaker 2: dollars if your first bet loses only on DraftKings Sportsbook
Speaker 2: with Code Hoops, that's hops. The crown is yours. You'll
Speaker 2: know real when you get it. It'll say eBay Authenticity Guarantee,
Speaker 2: and you'll feel it because when it comes to your feet,
Speaker 2: eBay has your back. Maybe it's a head turning pair
Speaker 2: for hooping or hot new collab, whatever you're after. When
Speaker 2: you cop on eBay, you can trust that your kicks
Speaker 2: will be checked by experts. Not just any experts, sneaker
Speaker 2: experts who live and breathe the culture, real people with
Speaker 2: real hands on authentication experience. That's what the blue check
Speaker 2: mark represents on our listings eBay Authenticity Guarantee, meaning every inch, stitch,
Speaker 2: soul and logo is verified authentic through a detailed inspection.
Speaker 2: So when you finally step into those grail kicks, you'll
Speaker 2: realize that the feeling is unlike any other. And with
Speaker 2: eBay's authenticity Guarantee, that feeling of real is always within
Speaker 2: reach and sure your next purchase is the real deal.
Speaker 2: Visit eBay dot com for term. So this next tier,
Speaker 2: I have titled teams hitting traditional championship benchmarks, but that
Speaker 2: have playoff question marks, and so that to me is
Speaker 2: where I have the Clippers. The big question marks I
Speaker 2: have for the Clippers are kind of similar to someones
Speaker 2: that I have for other teams, Like they're not a
Speaker 2: good defensive rebounding team. That to me is another kind
Speaker 2: of like hallmark. We're gonna I pulled some stats for you.
Speaker 2: I'm prepped for a thunder argument, Sam, Just wait, I've
Speaker 2: pulled some stats about defensive rebounding in recent NBA champions
Speaker 2: and so there's some concerning stuff there. They're not a
Speaker 2: good defensive rebounding team. They they are actually a better
Speaker 2: paint attacking team than you'd think the Clippers are actually
Speaker 2: fifteenth and points in the paint per one hundred possessions.
Speaker 2: I do think they have more scoring resiliency in the
Speaker 2: sense that, like, I just think they're a better like
Speaker 2: type of they play. In my opinion, they take a
Speaker 2: lot of the same shots that Boston does, although fewer threes,
Speaker 2: but they're just better at it. They're better at playing
Speaker 2: that brand of basketball. I think in terms of like
Speaker 2: that slow down half court environment. They're top five in
Speaker 2: both half court offense and defense. That's usually a big
Speaker 2: hallmark for a championship contender. There's sixth in clutch net rating.
Speaker 2: That's another hallmark for a championship contender. And again, like
Speaker 2: you mentioned to me, let's just put it this way,
Speaker 2: Kaui is a better player than Tatum.
Speaker 1: Would you agree?
Speaker 3: Okay, Yes, I think Kawhi is the player I would
Speaker 3: take if we were drafting players for a playoff series
Speaker 3: right now, I would take Kawhi at number two behind you.
Speaker 1: Really there's a take, okay.
Speaker 2: So so for the record, I generally I'm generally super
Speaker 2: high at too healthy to be clear, But to your point,
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard brings a scoring resiliency to the playoffs that
Speaker 2: I think is super valuable when we get to this point.
Speaker 2: I think James Harden too, Like, I think there's less
Speaker 2: pressure on him in this playoff run than there was
Speaker 2: last year in the sense that, like, I think this
Speaker 2: team can kind of withstand a bad James hard and
Speaker 2: Night in a better way than that the Sixers could. So, like,
Speaker 2: I'm really really high on the Clippers too. Again, it
Speaker 2: really just comes down to for me, and again, I'm
Speaker 2: not even gonna talk about healthier. The only thing it
Speaker 2: really comes down to for me is like they're a
Speaker 2: bad defensive rebounding team. They do take a lot of
Speaker 2: pull up jumpers and we have seen them go cold
Speaker 2: like they did against Denver in twenty twenty, although it
Speaker 2: was a long time ago. Other thing, too, is a
Speaker 2: really bad transition defense. But I feel like I'm being
Speaker 2: kind of nitpicky. You're high on the Clippers. Tell us
Speaker 2: for you? Tell us why I should say?
Speaker 3: Okay, So, Kawhi Leonard this season has missed I believe
Speaker 3: five games so far coming down the stretch. Last season,
Speaker 3: I believe he missed. I think it was like six
Speaker 3: games in their last fifty games, maybe eight games in
Speaker 3: their last fifty games. Somewhere along those lines. Again, the
Speaker 3: problem is that he did not stay healthy for the playoffs.
Speaker 3: I think any conversation you said, you want to ignore
Speaker 3: the health. I'm sorry, but any conversation with the Clippers
Speaker 3: revolves around the health on some level. In the four
Speaker 3: years that they have had Paul George and Kawhi Leonard,
Speaker 3: they are a plus twelve per one hundred possessions. When
Speaker 3: Paul George and Kawhi Leonard share the court. That is
Speaker 3: NBA title worthy. That is elite of the elite of
Speaker 3: the elite. These guys, when they take the court together,
Speaker 3: the Clippers win games. They are fantastic. To me, I've
Speaker 3: loved everything that they've seen. You bring up James Harden.
Speaker 3: The key is that when he was the point guard
Speaker 3: and the number two option on the Philadelphia seventy six
Speaker 3: ers last season, their primary action was they were going
Speaker 3: to try and run a one to five ball screen
Speaker 3: with Joel, and Joel was going to pop into the
Speaker 3: mid range. Maybe sometimes it'd been empty. Maybe sometimes James
Speaker 3: would be trying to get to his pull up jumper.
Speaker 3: You know, there'd be different machinations of it. James does
Speaker 3: not have to be the primary guy this year. James
Speaker 3: can be a combo breaker for them if for whatever
Speaker 3: reason they are able to an opposing team is able
Speaker 3: to shut down Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. You can't
Speaker 3: really shut down Kawhi Leonard at this point in my opinion,
Speaker 3: but like if a team is able to make his
Speaker 3: life more difficult, well not enough teams have three legitimate
Speaker 3: point of attack defenders with size and with quickness to
Speaker 3: be able to cause problems for all of these guys,
Speaker 3: which means you can just go into like one to
Speaker 3: five ball screen with James Harden and if Vitza Zoo
Speaker 3: Bots and then have Kawhi Leonard, Paul George and somebody
Speaker 3: like Norman Powell who's been elite of the elite of
Speaker 3: the elite in spot up situations this season surrounding him,
Speaker 3: and you can play five out and that's going to
Speaker 3: be able to create all sorts of problems that way,
Speaker 3: And that's like your second or third option, right. They
Speaker 3: have so many different ways to be able to attack
Speaker 3: a defense. That's why they have a top three offense
Speaker 3: in the NBA and why it wouldn't surprise me if
Speaker 3: by the end of the year. They actually have the
Speaker 3: best offense in the NBA. As long as these guys
Speaker 3: stay healthy, I think they are the most dangerous offensive team.
Speaker 3: On top of it, I think Kawhi has been better
Speaker 3: than what we've seen in the last couple of years
Speaker 3: defensively this season, Paul George remains an elite defender who
Speaker 3: can handle point of attack situations, getting over the top
Speaker 3: of screens using his length disrupt actions that way you mentioned.
Speaker 3: Terrence Man can obviously do that. They use him a
Speaker 3: lot more than they use Paul George in that scenario.
Speaker 3: But I think Paul, if you get him going in
Speaker 3: the playoffs, he's going to be able to do that.
Speaker 3: The only issue, like you said, is the size one.
Speaker 3: I am with you. I have worries about the fact
Speaker 3: that Zubots is really their size based counter, and like
Speaker 3: I actually don't know what their counter is to Zubots
Speaker 3: right now. That is my number one worry. What do
Speaker 3: they do if they have to go small? I actually
Speaker 3: don't really know what like a small lineup looks like
Speaker 3: for them, given that PJ. Tucker has been like m
Speaker 3: Ia here for the recent while.
Speaker 2: Do you think they intend to do? I think that
Speaker 2: was why they didn't buy him out, and why they're
Speaker 2: trying to get him to kind of refocus and come back.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's centers around them wanting to have
Speaker 2: him as an ace in the hole if they need
Speaker 2: to use him.
Speaker 3: I think no. I think it's more that they could
Speaker 3: have his contract as an expiring ten million dollars that
Speaker 3: makes sense for the off season, but like he still
Speaker 3: has next year. That was a huge win for Darryl
Speaker 3: Morey to get off of that deal within the James
Speaker 3: harden Uh trade. But look, I mean it probably plays
Speaker 3: like a small role in it, like as a potential option,
Speaker 3: But I think much more it's you know, to have
Speaker 3: him as a ten million dollar expiring for the offseason
Speaker 3: when they don't have like a crazy number of contracts
Speaker 3: that they can do, like, honestly, is their best small
Speaker 3: lineup something crazy like James harden Kawhi, Paul George, like
Speaker 3: Powell Man, or even like like is it like Russ
Speaker 3: given his ability to go up tempo and like try
Speaker 3: and beat opposing teams down the court, Like do you
Speaker 3: involve him in your best small lineup? They don't have
Speaker 3: like a great answer.
Speaker 1: I'd go I'd probably go powell Man.
Speaker 2: But I have noticed the same thing where like when
Speaker 2: these Clippers go small, it doesn't look the same as
Speaker 2: it did a few years ago when it was like
Speaker 2: a Marcus Morris out there, or it was a you know,
Speaker 2: a Nick Batoomb, or it was just like another six
Speaker 2: to eight guy that just kind of added So at
Speaker 2: least they were like longer, if that makes sense. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, like Zubach is, like Zubach is
Speaker 2: on the short list of guys that like you'd love
Speaker 2: to have for a matchup with Yokic like as well,
Speaker 2: like so so like, yeah, I love this Clippers team.
Speaker 2: I love their character too. They just they have they
Speaker 2: they just give me championship vibes. And that's why I
Speaker 2: put them in that That's why I titled that tier
Speaker 2: like hitting championship benchmarks, because like, I think there are
Speaker 2: a lot of teams, especially in the modern NBA uh
Speaker 2: that like I don't want to say cut corners, but
Speaker 2: that that view the regular season is almost unnecessary.
Speaker 1: And I feel like the NBA does a good job
Speaker 1: of shooting spitting those teams.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And the Clippers were a primary example of
Speaker 3: this for three years. Like that's exactly right. They they
Speaker 3: have not cut corners this year.
Speaker 2: It's really important, exactly And I just, I just I
Speaker 2: love that the NBA tends to chew up and spit
Speaker 2: out teams that don't take the regular season seriously. It's
Speaker 2: one of my favorite It's one of my favorite things
Speaker 2: about the league. Like don't don't cheat the game and
Speaker 2: the and the game won't cheat you back the other team.
Speaker 2: I only have one other team on this tier, and
Speaker 2: that is the Minnesota Timberwolves. I absolutely love the combination
Speaker 2: of like truly physically imposing perimeter defense and or improtection. Specifically,
Speaker 2: I love their I love the matchup versatility that an
Speaker 2: Ant and a Jaden McDaniels gives you, in the sense
Speaker 2: that like Jaden McDaniels brings this like lank that is
Speaker 2: like oppressive, but then Ant brings this like fire hydrant
Speaker 2: you could never get past me strength and like hands,
Speaker 2: the physicality at the permitterve. I love that they can
Speaker 2: like kind of play with those matchups a little bit
Speaker 2: because like certain offensive players like are really good at
Speaker 2: shooting over the top and the fire hydrant guys don't
Speaker 2: really bother them. And then like there are certain offensive
Speaker 2: players that like are bothered by length more and so
Speaker 2: like you can kind of like play with that a
Speaker 2: little bit. My main red flag with the Timberwolves is
Speaker 2: I really have hated their crunch time offense as of late. Yes,
Speaker 2: And you know it's funny because like you talk to
Speaker 2: Timberwolves fans and like, we're a top ten half corn
Speaker 2: or we're a good half court offense. Like Mike Conley,
Speaker 2: you know, organizes us and we've you know, Anthony Edwards
Speaker 2: is sending me superstardom, and I buy into all that.
Speaker 2: Like I'm a huge Anthony Edwards guy. I love Mike Conley,
Speaker 2: but like, to me, because Mike Conley's not overly aggressive
Speaker 2: at the end of games, Like generally speaking, it comes
Speaker 2: down to decision making from Ant who's very very young,
Speaker 2: and Carl Towns, who's iffy decision maker, and I think
Speaker 2: that that ends up being the issue. Now they've they
Speaker 2: dropped a game in crunch time against the Bulls the
Speaker 2: other night or about a week and a half ago,
Speaker 2: where it looked exactly like all the things I'm telling
Speaker 2: you about, and then they won four straight where they
Speaker 2: kicked everyone's ass and there wasn't even any crunch time games,
Speaker 2: And I remember teams used to be concerned about like
Speaker 2: the Lakers in twenty twenty and their half court offense
Speaker 2: and their ability to execute, and then guess what, their
Speaker 2: defense was so damn good they just it didn't matter
Speaker 2: and they were able to win. And so I still
Speaker 2: think the Timberwolves are very much in that tier of
Speaker 2: teams that I think have a real chance to win
Speaker 2: at all. But like like we mentioned earlier, if I
Speaker 2: saw them lose, that's what it would look like. I
Speaker 2: think it would come down to half court execution. Where
Speaker 2: are you at with the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Speaker 3: Have the same exact concern you do, And it's not
Speaker 3: just like like if the Bulls game was a one off,
Speaker 3: I would feel better, But they have recently dropped crunch
Speaker 3: time games to the Spurs, the Hornets, I think the
Speaker 3: magic if I remember correctly as well, like teams that
Speaker 3: aren't exactly like bastions of late game off defensive execution, right,
Speaker 3: so it almost always it looks the same. It looks
Speaker 3: exactly like what you're saying I really worry about. Okay,
Speaker 3: let's say that they play the Clippers, or they play
Speaker 3: the Nuggets or somebody like that. Right, I still don't
Speaker 3: totally know what that's going to look like from a
Speaker 3: half court defensive perspective when teams look to specifically attack
Speaker 3: Rudy Gobert and Carl Towns in mismatched situations. In those scenarios,
Speaker 3: now having both of them is really valuable. But like
Speaker 3: the Clippers, for instance, who does Carl Towns guard on
Speaker 3: the Clippers in a fully healthy series?
Speaker 2: For those guys, I think you put him on Kawhi,
Speaker 2: right and basically try to have him handle the bullyball
Speaker 2: stuff and like, like a Kawhi is not an overly
Speaker 2: like quickness based player.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: But that's I think Kawhi with Kok his ass. But
Speaker 2: I think I think that's what you talk yourself into, right.
Speaker 3: So I think that's my answer. But what I think
Speaker 3: the Clippers would do even more than anything else, I
Speaker 3: think they would run Kawhi off of a of off
Speaker 3: ball action by the way.
Speaker 1: We saw the Pelicans by putting Zion on Kawhi by
Speaker 1: the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, just like literally make Cat chase the whole game.
Speaker 3: And that's going to have diminishing returns on Cat's offensive
Speaker 3: game as well, because he has to chase and Chase
Speaker 3: and Chase. So I am to a lesser extent than
Speaker 3: like the Calves, for instance, worried about what schematically the
Speaker 3: two big foundation looks like in the playoffs, even though
Speaker 3: it has been tremendously successful defensively this season. I look,
Speaker 3: I think Rudy is Rudy's reputation defensively in the playoffs
Speaker 3: is probably a little bit overblown in terms of his effectiveness.
Speaker 3: But again, like that Clippers team like really did show
Speaker 3: kind of the benchmark for how to cause problems for
Speaker 3: him when he was playing in Utah playing five out.
Speaker 3: If you can play five out, it causes some problems.
Speaker 3: Now the Clippers don't have the wherewithal to play five out,
Speaker 3: as we just discussed, which is valuable. But like, I
Speaker 3: have the Timberwolves a little bit lower, and you're gonna
Speaker 3: like laugh at the team that I have ahead of
Speaker 3: the Timberwolves in the West. It's it's not the thunder.
Speaker 3: We'll make them once we get to them.
Speaker 1: Phoenix. No, you're not gonna say the Lakers, are you?
Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna say the Lakers. Look, I have Phoenix,
Speaker 3: like relatively in this tier, I have the MAVs. Man,
Speaker 3: I have the MAVs really high. Jason.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, so let's let's do this.
Speaker 2: I for the record, I agree with you with Minnesota,
Speaker 2: like they there there's specific configurations I worry about with
Speaker 2: them because you know what's interesting too, you know, it
Speaker 2: also has been really shitty their crunch time defense, like
Speaker 2: they Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, and I want to be clear here for everybody,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I'm playing the role of like
Speaker 3: nitpick on this podcast, which is fine, Like, and that's
Speaker 3: the role that like I kind of want to play
Speaker 3: a little bit. I have the I have the Timberwolves
Speaker 3: in this tier. I have them like a couple slots
Speaker 3: lower than you, but like I have the timber Wolves
Speaker 3: in this year. They've had a fantastic season and I'm
Speaker 3: all for what they've been able to accomplish this season.
Speaker 3: And I think Anthony Edwards is like a total stud
Speaker 3: that is probably like a year away, but if it
Speaker 3: came a year early, I wouldn't be surprised. The key
Speaker 3: is the decision making, like you said, but sorry, I
Speaker 3: wanted to get that out there.
Speaker 2: So my tiers, the way I have it set up,
Speaker 2: I have the like I said, the Bona FID Championship contenders,
Speaker 2: and then I have the teams that are hitting benchmarks
Speaker 2: but have question marks, obviously the Clippers and the Timberwolves.
Speaker 2: After that, every other team for me, is missing the
Speaker 2: traditional championship benchmarks that like legitimately like the team like that,
Speaker 2: they're not hitting those like like, and we can get
Speaker 2: in it. We'll get into the individual teams. But I
Speaker 2: don't have any other teams on that tier. But it
Speaker 2: sounds like you have multiple. So before we go any further,
Speaker 2: what teams do you have that are in what you
Speaker 2: consider to be like that real championship winning a capability tier.
Speaker 3: So, like I said, at the top, realistically, I think
Speaker 3: there's a ninety percent chance that the title comes from
Speaker 3: one of Denver, the Clippers, or the Celtics. So I
Speaker 3: think those are really the three teams.
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's the end that we're top tier reruly,
Speaker 2: that's my okay, So I really I'm.
Speaker 1: Including Minnesota and you're not.
Speaker 3: Basically gotcha, yeah, exactly, Like I have a bigger second tier.
Speaker 3: Well maybe not, I don't know, but I have a
Speaker 3: I'll be interested to hear the way you break out
Speaker 3: the rest of your tiers. My clear thing is, like
Speaker 3: I think the Nuggets, Clippers, and Celtics are a level
Speaker 3: ahead in terms of playoff basketball, especially if the Clippers
Speaker 3: are helping.
Speaker 2: So I agree with you, I just am including Minnesota
Speaker 2: in there to me. To me, the case for Minnesota
Speaker 2: is they're just like one of the most physically overwhelming
Speaker 2: teams in the league and that tends to be a
Speaker 2: weapon when you get to the postseason. And like you
Speaker 2: can't write off to like the just like the what
Speaker 2: if aunt is just awesome, you know that that's always
Speaker 2: a really and he shot the pull up jump shot
Speaker 2: incredibly well in the postseason so far in his career.
Speaker 2: So and that to me, like, you know, people always
Speaker 2: make fun of Tatum for relying on a ton of
Speaker 2: pull up jump shots, and it's kind of in that
Speaker 2: camp to where like a considering his physical gifts, there's
Speaker 2: a huge portion of his shot diet that is kind
Speaker 2: of difficult, which always has been. But yeah, like you
Speaker 2: can't write out the possibility of him making making them.
Speaker 2: So my next tier is teams that are missing traditional
Speaker 2: championship benchmarks, but you can see a legitimate pathway to
Speaker 2: the title for them. And the first team I have
Speaker 2: on this tier at number five is the Milwaukee Bucks.
Speaker 2: And it's really this simple. They they they cannot score
Speaker 2: the they cannot score the basketball since Doc Rivers has
Speaker 2: taken over.
Speaker 1: It's the craziest thing. Dame Lillard is shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, is there is there missing
Speaker 3: traditional championship benchmarks like having Doc Rivers as their basketball coach.
Speaker 2: So the traditional benchmarks here are like one, there's just
Speaker 2: like a weird funk kind of hanging over the team
Speaker 2: that's never like how many teams win the title when
Speaker 2: it looks like they're not even sure they're having fun
Speaker 2: playing together for large chunks of the season. You know,
Speaker 2: their defense is not good enough, but they're not transcendently
Speaker 2: great offensively to make up for it. Like that was
Speaker 2: always the case when you're watching Denver last year. It
Speaker 2: was like there's like, oh, their defense is kind of mediocre,
Speaker 2: but like, hey man, this is like a potentially an
Speaker 2: all time great offense, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: so that's kind of the way I look at like
Speaker 2: them missing the benchmark is like they don't have good
Speaker 2: defensive personnel. They're not a good defensive team, and they're
Speaker 2: not like they don't have an elite unit that you
Speaker 2: look at as like the driving force behind their championship.
Speaker 1: Kind of odds.
Speaker 2: But to put it simply, most of this team construct
Speaker 2: is based on Dame being a superstar offensive player and
Speaker 2: he just hasn't been. And so that's where you like
Speaker 2: see the legitimate pathway is like what if Dame and
Speaker 2: Giannis and then all just kind of figure it out
Speaker 2: on offense and then they're able to get enough stops
Speaker 2: through a funneling scheme that just tries to send everybody
Speaker 2: towards their size. So, for you, Ony further, where do
Speaker 2: you have the bucks in this tier? Do you have
Speaker 2: them at the top of your tier? Do you have
Speaker 2: them lower or are the bucks for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd Denver or i'd Milwaukee at four? Okay, I
Speaker 3: had Milwaukee at four. I think that they are the
Speaker 3: team that I probably trust most outside of that well
Speaker 3: trust is the wrong word. They're the team who's talent
Speaker 3: level I believe in most outside of that top group
Speaker 3: of teams that we talked about. If you look at
Speaker 3: it since January fifteenth, they're twelfth in defense. Like the defense,
Speaker 3: you know, I know it's not been great vibes wise
Speaker 3: since Doc got there, but like the defense has gotten
Speaker 3: better from the catastrophic levels it was at early in
Speaker 3: the season. Particularly offensively, I really think that there is
Speaker 3: a shot they just figure this thing out. Like truly,
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, they have a top
Speaker 3: five offense in the league. The Yiannis Damian Lillard combination
Speaker 3: is more offensive star power than I don't know how
Speaker 3: many teams can match that at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it is precious few. I would say Denver can match it.
Speaker 3: I would say the Clippers can match it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Like I think that they probably enter the series against
Speaker 3: Boston with a better top two than what Boston has.
Speaker 3: Absolutely I trust Yeah, It's just that I trust Boston's
Speaker 3: rest of the core pieces much much more than I
Speaker 3: trust Milwaukee's, And honestly, like I think that Pat Beverly
Speaker 3: solves some things for them in terms of like constructing
Speaker 3: playoff lineups that could be beneficial. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: sit here and say Patrick Beverly is like a thirty
Speaker 3: minute per game guy in the playoffs at this point
Speaker 3: in his career. I don't believe that necessarily at thirty
Speaker 3: five years old, but I think that having him around
Speaker 3: really does present more opportunity for them to create coherent
Speaker 3: lineups that can defend at the point of attack, which
Speaker 3: is what they desperately, desperately need. You can't go into
Speaker 3: a playoff series having Malik Beasley as your primary defensive option. Like,
Speaker 3: it's just not gonna work. It just is not the
Speaker 3: reality of playoff basketball. At the end of the day.
Speaker 3: You know, Chris Middleton's kind of dealing with like a
Speaker 3: little ankle injury heading into the deadline or heading into
Speaker 3: All Star break, and hopefully he's able to get back
Speaker 3: to one hundred percent. I think he's been better since
Speaker 3: his start to the season at least, you know, it's
Speaker 3: been a little bit hit or miss. But they're gonna
Speaker 3: enter the series. They're gonna enter any series in the
Speaker 3: East with the best one two punch, and that gives
Speaker 3: them a better punchers chance than I think anybody else has,
Speaker 3: even if they're at a real coaching disadvantage in the playoffs,
Speaker 3: which I think, unfortunately for Doc, has been proven time
Speaker 3: and time again ever since he won that title in Boston.
Speaker 2: I to your point about the talent, like I made
Speaker 2: a little list earlier as part of my Lakers. You know,
Speaker 2: whatever shred of optimism there is around the Lakers. To me,
Speaker 2: there are four teams in the NBA that you can stay,
Speaker 2: that you can stay definitively have two of the fifteen
Speaker 2: best playoff players in the league Denver, Milwaukee, the Lakers,
Speaker 2: and the Suns. Like those are the four teams where
Speaker 2: it's like if you're just taking playoff players. To me,
Speaker 2: and the one that's oh, the Clippers, the Clippers, I
Speaker 2: don't think Paul George necessarily the top fifteen player, do you?
Speaker 3: I would take Paul over Jamal Murray, even though I
Speaker 3: love Jamal and I think that the combination of Yo
Speaker 3: Kitchen Jamal elevates itself. And I have, like, I have
Speaker 3: an immense and mense of ments amount of respect for
Speaker 3: Jamal Murray. I don't mean to like I would have
Speaker 3: Jamal Murray in the top twenty, but I would take
Speaker 3: Paul j over so.
Speaker 2: In a vacuum, I agree with you. I think Paul
Speaker 2: George is a better basketball player than Jamal Murray. But
Speaker 2: I have this thing on this show, this this ethos,
Speaker 2: which is your impact is aboutasketball player really only matters
Speaker 2: within your own situation, meaning like everything else is theoretical.
Speaker 2: So for instance, like as the two man game, specifically
Speaker 2: next to Jokich as a shot maker. Like, think about
Speaker 2: how specifically important what Jamal Murray does for the Nuggets.
Speaker 2: So like that that to me, Like to me, Jamal
Speaker 2: Murray was like a top five winning impact player in
Speaker 2: the postseason last year because of what he did in
Speaker 2: his role. This dude was like a thirty I can't
Speaker 2: remember the exact numbers, but he was like he was
Speaker 2: making shots at a bona fide superstar. Like what he
Speaker 2: did last year in the postseason is every bit as
Speaker 2: impactful as what Kyrie Irving did for the Cavs in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. Sands the gigantic performance in Game five in
Speaker 2: Game seven, like like the like in terms of like
Speaker 2: value in a role. Like no one actually thought Kyrie
Speaker 2: was a top five player in twenty sixteen or two
Speaker 2: I fifteen, but his fit next to Lebron with the
Speaker 2: Calves in the playoff setting brought a winning impact that
Speaker 2: was of similar ilk to some of the stars of
Speaker 2: the league. So that would be the case. But I'll
Speaker 2: allow it in the sense that we'll say the Clippers too.
Speaker 2: So that's five teams.
Speaker 3: I think you've sold me. Honestly, I think I think
Speaker 3: you've sold me on the Murray idea. I do tend
Speaker 3: to think of that argument more in a vacuum. But
Speaker 3: you're wrong or you're right that I'm wrong, and it's
Speaker 3: not in a vacuum at the end of the well,
Speaker 3: so I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I just had a male bad question about this earlier today,
Speaker 2: which is why I brought it up. Like I can't
Speaker 2: even remember what the male bad question was, but like
Speaker 2: I ended up saying, like to me, like, your value
Speaker 2: as a basketball player is what you bring to your team,
Speaker 2: Like that's what That's not theoretical, that's real. But anyway,
Speaker 2: to your point, though, Milwaukee is one of five teams,
Speaker 2: let's just do let's make it a little bit more broad.
Speaker 2: It's it's one of five teams in the league that
Speaker 2: can stay definitively they have two of the best twenty
Speaker 2: t playoff players in the league. The Clippers, the Nuggets,
Speaker 2: the Bucks, the Lakers, and the Suns, And so to me,
Speaker 2: that's the Bucks. Thing that they bring to the table
Speaker 2: is like what if Damon Giannis figured out now on
Speaker 2: the Bucks front, this is like what I'm noticing on
Speaker 2: tape is like I think we all pled forever for
Speaker 2: Giannis to be more of a screen and roll guy,
Speaker 2: and like he just never really did it until Dame
Speaker 2: came to town at the volume that he's doing it now.
Speaker 2: And you know, as much as Giannis is a great
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say great, As much as Giannis has become
Speaker 2: a good passer in terms of, like in his ISOs
Speaker 2: and post ups at like drawing attention and making these plays,
Speaker 2: I actually think he hasn't been that great as a
Speaker 2: screen and roll guy this year in terms of like
Speaker 2: his decision making and his ability to interpret the defense.
Speaker 2: I think he's I don't think he's doing a good
Speaker 2: enough job screening. I don't think that as a team
Speaker 2: they're actually organizing the floor well enough to get him
Speaker 2: into a situation where he can make easier reads. In
Speaker 2: a weird way, the Dame yanis pick and roll not
Speaker 2: being as productive as you would hope. I think it's
Speaker 2: been on both of them. I think it's been on
Speaker 2: Dame not doing a good enough job just being the
Speaker 2: offensive threat you need to get the panic coverages that
Speaker 2: you need to kind of generate the really easy role opportunities.
Speaker 2: But I think Giannis has left a lot to be
Speaker 2: desired in terms of like Giannest to me, is the
Speaker 2: MVP of the league right now. I think he's been
Speaker 2: the best regular season this year, regular season player this year.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to pick on Yannis. I think it's
Speaker 2: just he's in as much of a new role here
Speaker 2: as Dame is. And for Dame, it's just the geometry
Speaker 2: of the offense is very different compared to what he
Speaker 2: had in Portland. But like to me, Yannis hasn't really
Speaker 2: that whole synergy just hasn't really taken shape yet. To
Speaker 2: your point, what if it does, because like if it does,
Speaker 2: that's where it could like really really take off. I personally,
Speaker 2: I like their configurations better. When they clear the side
Speaker 2: or empty corner for their ball screens, I feel like
Speaker 2: it just gets Yannis better, like easier opportunities to quickly read.
Speaker 2: I think that's the difference. Like in his ISOs impost
Speaker 2: he's really focused on the floor, whereas in the ball
Speaker 2: screens he kind of has to like go from setting
Speaker 2: a screen to like quickly interpreting the floor and what's
Speaker 2: happening right in front of him. And I think it's
Speaker 2: just a little bit more of a of a hesitation there,
Speaker 2: which has caused some issues. But I'm wondering what you've
Speaker 2: noticed watching the Bucks this year that you think is
Speaker 2: holding them back offensively.
Speaker 3: Well, and I think that you know to your point,
Speaker 3: the empty side actions, I mean empty side actions it
Speaker 3: feels like have taken I don't want to say taking
Speaker 3: the league by storm. Obviously teams have used empty side
Speaker 3: actions for years, but I would be fascinated to see
Speaker 3: numbers to see if it feels like teams are using
Speaker 3: empty side actions far more. And the idea behind empty
Speaker 3: side actions is that you have to pre rotate. Basically,
Speaker 3: you have to bring over the tagger for somebody like Giannis,
Speaker 3: for somebody like Joel Embiid. The maxi Embiid one has
Speaker 3: you know, stood out in my mind all year. They
Speaker 3: use it a ton in Philadelphia. To be able to
Speaker 3: get Joell into open space, you have to pre rotate.
Speaker 3: And because you have to pre rotate and you essentially
Speaker 3: have to play three on two defensively, it I think
Speaker 3: creates an easier avenue to be able to read the court.
Speaker 3: Four players like Joel Embiid, Johannison Tetakumpo that can be
Speaker 3: a little bit turnover prone right like not can struggle
Speaker 3: a little bit with passing and playmaking. At the end
Speaker 3: of the day, I think that you're one hundred percent
Speaker 3: right in terms of why their struggles have been. Yannis
Speaker 3: and Dame together still do not have that synergy in
Speaker 3: ball screens. I think that it's Janie's screening to an extent,
Speaker 3: and I think it's Jiannis's ability to read the floor
Speaker 3: as well. It's just not a situation that he's been
Speaker 3: comfortable with throughout the course of his career to this
Speaker 3: point because he hasn't had that elite gravitational force as
Speaker 3: a pull up player previously. He's still adjusting to this
Speaker 3: new reality that he currently lives in. It took Joel
Speaker 3: Embiid in James Harden like probably half a year to
Speaker 3: be able to figure that out. To get I'm not
Speaker 3: surprised that it's taken Joannis and Damian Lillard like hopefully
Speaker 3: half of a year to figure it out. They need
Speaker 3: to spend like these last twenty eight games that they have,
Speaker 3: twenty seven games whatever they have left figuring that out.
Speaker 3: That is their critical critical thing. I don't think they
Speaker 3: win the title unless they have that elite attack figured out.
Speaker 3: Because for as much as I think Chris Middleton has
Speaker 3: been a little bit better over the course of the
Speaker 3: second half of the first half of the season. It's
Speaker 3: Chris has not been good enough as a second side
Speaker 3: option to where you can consistently truly.
Speaker 1: Rely on him.
Speaker 3: Yet brook Lopez has been everything that he normally is.
Speaker 3: I think he's been tasked with different defensive assignments that
Speaker 3: have made him a bit less functional under Adrian Griffin.
Speaker 3: But for instance, them playing a bit more aggressive in
Speaker 3: ball screens, especially early in the season, was bunkers to me,
Speaker 3: given that you have Brook Lopez on your team. But
Speaker 3: I think Doc will play to their strengths a little
Speaker 3: bit better. At least they're gonna have to get something
Speaker 3: out of the Malik Beasley. Jay Crowder has been like
Speaker 3: somewhat serviceable this year. I kind of thought there was
Speaker 3: a chance he was cooked, but he hasn't been totally
Speaker 3: cooked in the way that like Pat Connaton, for instance,
Speaker 3: has been. They need Pat Connaton to be able to
Speaker 3: give them something something in my opinion, and then they
Speaker 3: need to figure out if they can rely on Andre
Speaker 3: Jackson and Marjon Beauchamp in some way. My guess is
Speaker 3: that it has to be Andre Jackson to be able
Speaker 3: to provide like real point of attack defense beyond Patrick Beverley.
Speaker 3: They need two of those guys. I think one of
Speaker 3: them can be Pat Bev. It needs to probably be
Speaker 3: Andre Jackson to be able to give them like ten
Speaker 3: to fifteen minutes a game in the playoffs that they
Speaker 3: can at least use to tire out opposing ball handlers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Patrick Beverly acquisition I actually liked. I think
Speaker 2: the way you mentioned it is perfect. Like he can't
Speaker 2: be a thirty minute per game guy, not even just
Speaker 2: because of like his own you know, gas tank, so
Speaker 2: to speak, but also I think you kind of have
Speaker 2: to keep Malik Beasley in the starting lineup for his confidence.
Speaker 2: Like I almost think you have to like start Malik
Speaker 2: Beasley because he has been shooting the shit out of basketball.
Speaker 2: You kind of have to start him and kind of
Speaker 2: like feed into his confidence and then basically lean into Pat,
Speaker 2: you know, for specific stretches of the game, and maybe
Speaker 2: even play him more minutes like almost like a like
Speaker 2: a twenty five minute per game type of guy.
Speaker 3: But in general, I Jason, what is their closing lineup?
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying. I'm closing with Pat.
Speaker 2: I think I think Pat is good against guards. I
Speaker 2: just think he gets into trouble when you put him
Speaker 2: against bigger players. I think he has a reputation as
Speaker 2: being a guy who can guard bigger players, but I
Speaker 2: don't think it actually matches up with reality.
Speaker 3: Okay, question two, what are you closing against Boston with?
Speaker 3: Because they're gonna like just absolutely spam like pick and
Speaker 3: pops or trailer threes with Christops. I would guess, so.
Speaker 3: I actually don't know if you can totally trust Brooke
Speaker 3: to close those situations.
Speaker 1: I I you know, it's funny.
Speaker 2: Before the season, I had the Bucks above the Celtics
Speaker 2: on my contenders list, and then like it just it
Speaker 2: flipped after like fifteen games, and I've never looked back.
Speaker 2: I think that I think the Celtics would beat the
Speaker 2: Bucks pretty handily if they played them.
Speaker 1: I do too.
Speaker 3: I I don't know what their option is. I guess
Speaker 3: that's my thing. That's what worries me. I don't like.
Speaker 3: It's probably Dame Jannis Middleton, honestly, is it Crowder Pat Bev?
Speaker 1: And then you just what do some more switching?
Speaker 3: You try and switch like everything, but then you have
Speaker 3: Dame who has not been very good defensively so far
Speaker 3: this season. Structurally, their lineups are hard, like do you
Speaker 3: do you try and switch with Brook? Maybe like that
Speaker 3: that feels like a bad idea, To be clear, I'm not,
Speaker 3: I'm not. I think think it's choosing between bad ideas
Speaker 3: in terms of what they're like. Closing lineups against Boston
Speaker 3: could look like, Yeah, they're in a really intriguing, difficult spot.
Speaker 1: I would switch against Boston.
Speaker 2: My thing with Boston I think if you switch and
Speaker 2: you dig down into driving lanes, I think you can
Speaker 2: get them to settles. That's if I was coaching against Boston,
Speaker 2: I would lean into whatever I could do to make
Speaker 2: them lean into their worst tendencies and like they are,
Speaker 2: and they their ISO and post up guys tend to
Speaker 2: settle for tough shots, so that that would be I
Speaker 2: think I'd probably leave Brooke out there and I would
Speaker 2: switch and just offer a lot of help and test
Speaker 2: their decision making.
Speaker 3: I think I agree with you, and look like they
Speaker 3: kicked the shit out of Boston last time they played
Speaker 3: them like they absolutely.
Speaker 1: The second of back to back, and that was because
Speaker 1: that was like a.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent and that was a game where like
Speaker 3: both teams were relatively healthy. I think they might have
Speaker 3: sat out Horford for that game if I remember correctly.
Speaker 3: But like both teams like relatively healthy, I'm I think
Speaker 3: Boston has real schematic advantages against them, which were no
Speaker 3: I agree the volume