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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And a gallipole says that more than

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Speaker 1: three in four American seventy seven percent say the signers

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Speaker 1: of the Declaration of Independence would be quite disappointed by

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Speaker 1: the United States we see today. We have such a

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Speaker 1: great Joe for you today as the world churns Andy

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Speaker 1: Levy stops by to talk about the elections. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk to Senator Chris Murphy about his new book, The

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Speaker 1: Crisis of the Common Good, The Fight for Meaning and

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Speaker 1: Connection in a Broken America. But first the news, Molly.

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Speaker 2: As we keep talking about Trump in that laser focus

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Speaker 2: of affordability, so he's making sure to not sign the

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Speaker 2: housing bill, and instead he wants Congress to pass his

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Speaker 2: say back to instead, and he's holding a hostage.

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Speaker 1: I don't even understand what's happening here. I have read this,

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Speaker 1: and I understand that it's bad for Congressional Republicans and

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Speaker 1: Senate Republicans and everything.

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Speaker 2: Apparently a few of them are fuming.

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Speaker 1: It's just so incredibly stupid. Basically, this is the one

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Speaker 1: piece of bipartisan legislation that any of these people are

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Speaker 1: ever going to pass, probably in the rest of this Congress.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely do not understand why Trump has decided that

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Speaker 1: this is the moment to try to pass the Save

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Speaker 1: America Act. Here's the deal. The Save America Act can

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Speaker 1: only pass if they decide to nuke the filibuster. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is super unpopular and his polling is terrible and

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Speaker 1: he's flailing, So he would need Mike Johnson and John

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Speaker 1: Thuon and John Thune. He really would need John Thune,

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Speaker 1: and John Thune has no appetite to nuke the filibuster

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Speaker 1: even when Donald Trump is polling Wow. So the idea

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Speaker 1: here that Donald Trump, who's pulling, he's like plumbing the

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Speaker 1: depths of bad polling, is somehow going to convince John Thune,

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Speaker 1: who's like a real person who's been in the Senate

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Speaker 1: for a long time and has real relationships in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: not like a Bernie Moreno who just got there and

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Speaker 1: has no idea which ways up he's going to put.

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Speaker 1: That guy is going to break the filibuster, thus giving

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Speaker 1: Democrats a free pass to do whatever they want. If

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Speaker 1: they break the filibuster, you're going to see you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just you could end up seeing like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a single payer I mean, are the entire free childcare

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Speaker 1: the entire wish list for all of us. So let

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Speaker 1: me tell you what's not going to happen here. Don

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Speaker 1: Thune is not going to break the filibuster to pass

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Speaker 1: the Save Act, which, by the way, half the stuff

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Speaker 1: isn't even legal. So this is just a dumb thing

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Speaker 1: for Trump to do. And it was like his one

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Speaker 1: legislative win.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but you know, baby needs to throw his pits.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's the thing. Part of it is Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: knows he's losing, right, he sees that he's losing. He

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Speaker 1: sees the polling, and every time he sees the polling,

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Speaker 1: he starts freaking out because he knows it's going to

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Speaker 1: get impeached again. And so he always is like, we

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Speaker 1: just need to pass the Save Act, which I think

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Speaker 1: that he does think that if he could pass the

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Speaker 1: Save Act, he would Republicans would win elections, which may

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Speaker 1: or may not be true. But there's no mechanism to

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Speaker 1: pass the Save Act that is correct. A House Republican

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Speaker 1: who was not named, said, what a shit show, crazy crazy, crazy,

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Speaker 1: He texted NBC News once in a generation housing bill

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Speaker 1: falls victim to nuts.

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Speaker 2: Pretty good. So, following up on this amazing, amazing focus

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Speaker 2: on affordability, he's now ordered the DOJ to target oil

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Speaker 2: companies over high gas prices.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called socialism. It's called socialism, socialism, socialism. Trump

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Speaker 1: loves socialism. Now, Okay, so here's what's happened. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: went to war with Iran, probably because net Yahoo goaded

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Speaker 1: him into it, and now he is mad at oil

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Speaker 1: companies for higher gas prices. Who brought the gas prices up?

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Speaker 2: Jesse, That would be mister Trump when he started at

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Speaker 2: war with Iran.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so now he's mad. By the way, this is

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Speaker 1: a guy who ran for president and told oil companies

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Speaker 1: that he was going to make them so much money.

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Speaker 1: Remember that he asked them.

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Speaker 2: For a bunch of money and then told the man.

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Speaker 1: But then he said, I'm going to make you so

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Speaker 1: much money. Okay, you don't get to tell them. They

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Speaker 1: get to charge everyone whatever they want. They're going to

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Speaker 1: make them so much money. And then you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: now you're not go allowed to charge what you want

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Speaker 1: to charge. So look, this is all Donald Trump freaking

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Speaker 1: out about his poll numbers. He's hearing that people are

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Speaker 1: mad about affordability, a made up word the Democrats made up.

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Speaker 1: Remember that it's made up. M hm. He's like in

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Speaker 1: a free fall, panicking, and he's trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: anything he can to save himself here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this seems like the usual Trump gestures to the

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Speaker 2: working class of fully toothless and performative that will do.

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Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing like less than nothing.

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Speaker 2: So now we get to something I find very very

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Speaker 2: funny personally. So we're obviously not done with the war

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Speaker 2: and Irun, but only twenty five percent of Americans think

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Speaker 2: that we've wanted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good because it's still going. Yeah, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense whatsoever. Trump really wants to bring oil

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Speaker 1: prices down in this panic he has decided. Last week

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Speaker 1: he signed the Treaty of Versailles two point zero, which

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Speaker 1: was quickly met by Ntyahuo continuing to bomb Lebanon, which

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Speaker 1: then caused the Iranians to close the straight again, which

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Speaker 1: then caused Jdvan to have to hop on a plane

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Speaker 1: and head to ball Rain or one of those countries

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East where he was snubbed by various leaders.

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Speaker 1: And now we don't have peace in the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: I think that's pretty much the fairest assessment here. But

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Speaker 1: luckily the American people laser focused on a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: They know in fact that there is no peace in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think that they're fooling anybody with this,

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Speaker 2: especially since their messaging is just so so disciplined these days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So we see now some of the usual Trump trope.

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Speaker 2: It's time to appoint someone. So who's getting appointed a oilist.

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Speaker 2: We did an interview yesterday with The Times Maggie Haberman

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Speaker 2: who pointed out a lot of this, that this is

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Speaker 2: the big difference between the last Trump regime and this one.

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Speaker 2: Now we see a top IRS lawyer that works at

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Speaker 2: a firm that represents mister Trump.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be shocked to hear that. In fact, Trump,

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Speaker 1: you know, ideologue loyalists, that kind of thing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is what Trump is interested in, That is what

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Speaker 1: Trump wants. That is very unsurprising. And here we are

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Speaker 1: in an absolute just shit show of the usual stuff

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Speaker 1: where Trump is installing an IRS lawyer who worked for

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Speaker 1: him as a top IRS lawyer. It's just like, this

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Speaker 1: is the guy who wants Todd Blanche as Attorney General.

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Speaker 1: This is not how anyone is supposed to work. The

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Speaker 1: government is not supposed to be an arm of the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign. It's not supposed to be an arm of

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Speaker 1: the Trump family business. Trump does not you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not that he doesn't understand it. He understands it. This

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Speaker 1: is working for him right now. And so here we

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Speaker 1: find ourselves. Andy Levy is the host of As the

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Speaker 1: World Journed. Welcome, Welcome, Andy Levy.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Molly john Fass. Nice to be back.

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Speaker 1: We are in a moment where Senate Republicans had had

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Speaker 1: this big win, all keyed up a housing bill. They

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Speaker 1: had worked hard into the afternoon, they had sweated through

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Speaker 1: their seersucker. Uh, it had been a hot summer day

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Speaker 1: in the district of Columbia. And you know what happened

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Speaker 1: to them. Let me guess I'm going to read you

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Speaker 1: a comment that Trump told Mike Johnson in a private conversation,

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Speaker 1: which was then given to punch Bowl News. As most

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Speaker 1: private conversations are, no one gives a shit about housing,

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Speaker 1: according to four sources who heard the speaker recount the.

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Speaker 3: Conversation, Yeah, I mean, look, and now, of course Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump is refusing to sign this bill. And I one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent believe he doesn't give a shit about housing

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Speaker 3: unless his name is on a building where people would

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Speaker 3: pay rent to him. Other than that, what does he care?

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Speaker 3: The fact that there are still people out there who

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Speaker 3: think that he fights for them, despite day after day

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Speaker 3: after day after day of shit like this, of comments

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Speaker 3: like nobody gives a shit about housing? What was it

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Speaker 3: a month or two ago? He didn't care about the

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Speaker 3: higher prices that people were paying. We know this. We

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Speaker 3: know he doesn't care about anything except enriching himself and

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Speaker 3: his cronies. That's his whole purpose in existing, that's his

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Speaker 3: whole reason for being. And a housing bill doesn't help

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Speaker 3: him there, so of course he doesn't care about it.

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Speaker 3: And then, you know, the interesting thing is he's refusing

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Speaker 3: to sign the housing legislation until Congress passes this so

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Speaker 3: called Safe the Act, the most unnecessary bill in American

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Speaker 3: history probably that does nothing. You know, it criminalizes stuff

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Speaker 3: that's already criminal and stuff like that. But the point

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Speaker 3: is he wants to save act because they are convinced

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Speaker 3: that it will help them win elections. Because it will,

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Speaker 3: you know, because it will suppress turnout among black people,

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Speaker 3: among brown people, among people who are more than likely

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Speaker 3: not going to vote Republican. And you know, you look

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Speaker 3: at what happened last night in New York City and elsewhere,

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Speaker 3: and you know what, they're probably right to be scared.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: I also think even if the Save Act didn't do

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Speaker 1: a lot of stupid crap and then also completely be

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Speaker 1: pointless and stupid, it also not to put too fine

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Speaker 1: a point on it here, it's also unpassable. Right, he'd

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Speaker 1: have to kill the filibuster. He cannot kill the filibuster

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Speaker 1: era ago. The math is not mathing.

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Speaker 4: No, but he.

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Speaker 3: Sees this as you know, it's a weakness of John

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Speaker 3: Thune and people like that. And he keeps, you know,

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Speaker 3: keeps saying things like you know, well Dune is you know,

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Speaker 3: he's a leader. He needs to lead, and he wants

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Speaker 3: you know, math not mathing, and science not sciencing, and

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Speaker 3: counting not counting is nothing new for this guy. He

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Speaker 3: doesn't care. He just you know, it's it's the five

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Speaker 3: year old mindset. I want this, so it has to happen.

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Speaker 3: So you know, every once in a while and I

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Speaker 3: have to get I'll give him this. It's rare, but

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Speaker 3: every once in a while, two or three Republicans actually

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Speaker 3: sit there and say, no, this is too.

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Speaker 1: Much for me, right right, right, right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean I also think, like, you know, this week

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Speaker 1: there was this War Powers Act, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: had the Republicans voted against it, Collins, Murkowski, Rand Paul,

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Speaker 1: who's always a good solid no vote, and then of

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Speaker 1: course Fatterman because he sucks, voted for it. But ultimately,

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Speaker 1: you know, Trump got centered on the war in the

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Speaker 1: Senate where he holds the Senate by you know, it's

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Speaker 1: fifty three forty seven.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and again this is new for him. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is uh and and part of it is probably

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Speaker 3: fueled by a couple of Republicans losing their primaries or

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Speaker 3: a couple of Republicans not running for reelection. And I

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Speaker 3: don't want to say they've grown a spine, because that's

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Speaker 3: not the definition of spine. That the spine would have

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Speaker 3: been to do the right thing when there might have

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Speaker 3: been consequences, you know, personal consequences. But they have realized that,

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Speaker 3: you know what, they don't they don't need his patronage

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Speaker 3: anymore because they're they're getting out of town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so there are those three who have like

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Speaker 1: directly lost their seats because of Trump Court in Cassidy

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Speaker 1: and Tillis. But then there's also you know, part of

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Speaker 1: what's happened is the polling, right, He's polling terribly. Gas

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Speaker 1: is expensive, people are unhappy. If you look at these

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Speaker 1: state polls, you know, he's underwater in states where he

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Speaker 1: was a kingmaker just a few months ago. So you

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Speaker 1: know these people are some of these people are for reelection.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely, And I mean and in particular, you said

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Speaker 3: the Iran war is pulling horribly, you know, in addition

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Speaker 3: to that list of things that you named off. So

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Speaker 3: again that's why I'm saying. You know, I'm not giving

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Speaker 3: any of these Republicans credit for growing a spine. You know,

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Speaker 3: some of them are leaving and others have, I think

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Speaker 3: rightfully started to take note, even in their tiny little

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Speaker 3: lizard magabrains that you know, this is not a winning

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Speaker 3: horse anymore to hitch your too. And again this is

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Speaker 3: new for Trump, and I feel for the guy Molly

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Speaker 3: his whole life, He's never run up against the slightest

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Speaker 3: bit of opposition, and now he's running up against the

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Speaker 3: slightest bit of opposition.

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Speaker 1: Well, the good news is that he has a lot

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Speaker 1: of projects building projects, yes, to take his time up,

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Speaker 1: like the green reflecting pool which was going to be

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Speaker 1: drained with the uncutable bottom, which has now been cut

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Speaker 1: by a vandal. But the inconvenient truth is that there

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Speaker 1: is a live stream, so if there had been a vandal,

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Speaker 1: they'd have video of the vandal.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: The reflecting pool, the putting his name on someone else's memorial,

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Speaker 1: that is done. But the tarp remains up like his

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Speaker 1: fragile ego.

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Speaker 3: Do we know that the name came down?

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Speaker 1: Yes, because we have seen pictures taken by an activist

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Speaker 1: group that snuck in under the tarp and.

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Speaker 3: Took Okay, I missed that. I totally missed that because

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Speaker 3: I started thinking, I know, I started thinking, everyone just

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Speaker 3: keeps saying the name is gone and the tarp is up,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, what if the name's not gone

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Speaker 3: and they're just saying it is the.

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Speaker 1: Name is gone?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: The east wing still rubble yep. And the Trump triumphal arch,

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Speaker 1: the arch you know, not yet built.

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Speaker 3: No, And I heard now he wants to put a

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Speaker 3: fist on top of it. No way, Yes, the fist

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Speaker 3: that he raised after the assassination attempt, or I saw

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Speaker 3: people call it the assassination attempt.

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Speaker 1: There is no way that put a giant They.

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Speaker 3: Wanted a giant fist on top of it. And I

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Speaker 3: could suggest where that fist would be better put, but.

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Speaker 1: I no, there is no world in which that Israel.

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Speaker 1: It's real, It cannot be real. I think the point

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Speaker 1: here is that Donald Trump is you know, he's eighty

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Speaker 1: and he's starting to get it. He's starting to get

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Speaker 1: whackier and whackier he is. He has entered his sort

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Speaker 1: of rosebud phase.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we still have over two years of this, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it's just amazing because he just, I mean, every

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Speaker 3: day is worse and worse. You know, he's been to

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Speaker 3: the doctor. Was it seven hundred and sixty two times?

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Speaker 4: I think?

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Speaker 3: Or did I just make that up? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He's been being three He's been to Walter Reed three times, but.

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Speaker 3: That's like it was more than that. Or he's seen

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Speaker 3: like twenty doctors. Is that what it wants?

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Speaker 1: Well, the doctors can come anytime they want, but he

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Speaker 1: goes to Walter Reid right three times?

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Speaker 3: Right, Look, anyone who deals with dementia knows that the

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Speaker 3: best you hope for is for the decline too slow,

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Speaker 3: right Like, that's literally the best case scenario. There's nothing

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Speaker 3: that there's nothing that will reverse it, and there's really

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Speaker 3: nothing that will even keep it where it is. It's

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Speaker 3: just the best case scenario is you try some of

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Speaker 3: these drugs or whatever that maybe maybe slow the rate

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Speaker 3: of decline. But my point is, this is him, this

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Speaker 3: is you know, America is dealing with an elderly parent

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Speaker 3: right now. In addition to those of us who are

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Speaker 3: dealing with it in our personal lives, the entire country

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Speaker 3: is now dealing with an elderly parent as president, and

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Speaker 3: so we have to pay attention to him every day

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Speaker 3: and see what he says every day, and you know,

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Speaker 3: people have to make sure he eats every day and

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Speaker 3: that he takes his medications, and you know that he

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Speaker 3: doesn't walk into a wall. That's the entire country right now.

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Speaker 3: That's that's where we are.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that happened last night was

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Speaker 1: that there was a big upset for some incumbents in

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Speaker 1: New York. Politico does really good reporting on New York State,

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Speaker 1: which is a stark contrast to some of their larger

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Speaker 1: national political reporting, though some of it's good, though some

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Speaker 1: of it is not. You know, they said it was

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Speaker 1: insurgents over incumbents discuss.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's right, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's interesting most of these insurgents are coming from the left,

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Speaker 3: and so this is being painted as a big win

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Speaker 3: for the left, for in New York, for the DSA,

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Socialists, and I think all of that is true,

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Speaker 3: and I'm happy about it. So I'm not I don't

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Speaker 3: want to minimize that at all. I do think it's

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Speaker 3: a it's not quite all about positions. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of it is about being tired of people who

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Speaker 3: are perceived to not fight right.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: I think it's more about that. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: it's people that the general population looks at and says,

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Speaker 3: this guy's been in office for a decade, or this

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Speaker 3: guy has been in office for six years or whatever is,

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Speaker 3: and look at the world around me, and what have

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Speaker 3: they done to combat that? And I think for a

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Speaker 3: lot of people, the answer is not much. And you know,

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Speaker 3: if I'm if I'm Chuck Schumer, if I'm Hakeem Jeffries,

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Speaker 3: i am sweating right now. Because if you want to

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Speaker 3: talk about two leading Democratic figures who are not perceived

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Speaker 3: as fighters. I mean, that's the big two right there.

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Speaker 3: And it's easy to say, oh, New York is not

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Speaker 3: the rest of the New York City is not the

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Speaker 3: rest of the country. And that's true. New York City

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Speaker 3: is not even New York State. You can say, you know,

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Speaker 3: someone like Chuck Schumer can console themselves and say, well,

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Speaker 3: new York City, there's still there's Long Island, there's you know, upstate.

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Speaker 3: But because I think this is more than a left

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Speaker 3: right split, and I think we're seeing this in Maine

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Speaker 3: and places like that, where candidates who maybe you know,

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Speaker 3: have issues and aren't the best are winning handily over

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Speaker 3: establishment figure.

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Speaker 1: Pat but mostly not. I mean I just went through

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Speaker 1: the whole thing with Jacob Brobashkan from Inside Elections, and actually,

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Speaker 1: I mean Maine is its own thing. But like, mostly

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Speaker 1: in the swing districts, they're elevating many Mikey Cheryls, and

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Speaker 1: in the very blue districts, they're elevating people who look

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Speaker 1: more like what the base looks like. No, I think

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Speaker 1: the thing that's important that we look at at this

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Speaker 1: moment is jeffries Is from New York. Schumer is from

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Speaker 1: New York and they're actually both from New York City, right,

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Speaker 1: They both endorsed candidates that were the incumbents, Chuck Schumer.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how active he got in this race,

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Speaker 1: but he certainly has. He never endorsed Zoran. He's been

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Speaker 1: pretty hands off with the mayor. The mayor went in

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Speaker 1: and got involved in these house races, which there's not

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Speaker 1: a ton of precedent for. There was some hurt feelings.

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Speaker 1: The thing when I read the reporting that I get

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Speaker 1: so struck by is that people are mad at him

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Speaker 1: for things like, well, I told you know, I scratched

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Speaker 1: your back. You were supposed to scratch mine. I endorsed you,

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Speaker 1: you were it was my turn, it was his. You know,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the kind of stuff that we

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Speaker 1: in the pundit at least I that I really don't like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, you know, they're.

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Speaker 1: Mad at him for not like being a company man,

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Speaker 1: which I think, in my mind is not.

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Speaker 3: A virtue, no, especially when the company is failing. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, but but again I agree with you by

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Speaker 3: the way you talked about Mikey Cheryl, and in swing districts,

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent agree with you. And that's why my

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Speaker 3: my initial point was not to take anything away from

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Speaker 3: the left in New York City and the DSA in

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Speaker 3: New York City because clearly a huge win last night.

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Speaker 3: But also, yes, okay, fine, you don't run the same

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Speaker 3: candidates in New York City as you run in other places.

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Speaker 3: The interesting thing to me two things. One is the

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Speaker 3: people who always are quick to point that out never

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Speaker 3: pointed out in reverse. They never point out after a

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Speaker 3: further left candidate wins in New York City, they never say,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's great, that's who we should be running

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Speaker 3: in New York City. They're still pissed right, you know,

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Speaker 3: So it never flips the other way. They think the

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Speaker 3: people you run in Kansas are the same people you

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Speaker 3: should run in New York City. So there's that. But

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Speaker 3: again this goes back to what you said about the

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Speaker 3: more moderate, the Mikey Cheryl's and the people like that.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what That's where it goes back to

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Speaker 3: the fighters versus the Schumer's for lack of a better word,

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Speaker 3: and it's people that again, no there Mikey Cheryl, not

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Speaker 3: to keep bringing her name up. People like that are

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Speaker 3: not DSA members, They are not radical lefties. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're not even going around saying free Palestine like they

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Speaker 3: are centrists. Maybe a tiny bit left of center in

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Speaker 3: some cases, but they are centrist Democrats for the most part.

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Speaker 3: But they have correctly gauged the mood of the country

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Speaker 3: and the mood of the mood of the Democrats in

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Speaker 3: the country anyway, and the mood of the Democrats I

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Speaker 3: think in the country, regardless of where you live, is

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Speaker 3: not we need someone who's going to reach across the aisle.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: I think that fiction has been, you know, long dispelled

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Speaker 3: at this point.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I also think at this moment we're seeing

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Speaker 1: like if you look at the base, the base is

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Speaker 1: really mad and they're mad at leadership and they feel

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Speaker 1: that the kind of tacking to the center did network.

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Speaker 1: Now this is more complicated, right, like there are this

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Speaker 1: is more than just a one you know, one primary.

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Speaker 1: It's about what devoters in the Democratic base want, and

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Speaker 1: they clearly want pushback, right, they want fight against Trump,

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Speaker 1: but they also want things that you know, they want

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Speaker 1: single payer, I mean, now it seems really clear. I

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Speaker 1: think also they want people who believe what they say,

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Speaker 1: like when you watch zorin one of the things I

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Speaker 1: mean Zorian is like once in a generation politician. He's

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Speaker 1: very good at talking to people, he's very good at

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Speaker 1: staying focused. He's just very focused on these very core tenants, right,

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Speaker 1: Like he's not out there saying like we're going to

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Speaker 1: do culture war stuff. He's like, I am here on affordability.

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Speaker 3: Yes, one hundred percent. He's authentic. Yeah, you know, even

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Speaker 3: if you don't like his positions, you know, that's what

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Speaker 3: he believes. And that goes I think hand in hand

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Speaker 3: with the fighters and as opposed to the ones who

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Speaker 3: are you know, checking the polls every day to see

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Speaker 3: where their position should be calibrated and saying maybe one

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Speaker 3: thing about you know, trans writes one day and then

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Speaker 3: a week life later, or backpedaling because someone got mad

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Speaker 3: at them, and you're not getting that from a mom donnie.

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Speaker 3: And I think elevating any politician to the level of,

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Speaker 3: you know, a god or a cult leader is bad

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Speaker 3: and I'm not going to do that with him. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he is.

433
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: Good at what he does. I mean, yeah, you may

434
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: not love his ideology, but like the man went in

435
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: there and met with Trump and Trump was like, this

436
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: guy's great. You know, let's throw a least devonic under

437
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: the bus, like you know a lot of people meet

438
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: with Trump and end up hiding behind him Manila.

439
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: Folder right, exactly exactly. And Brad Lander same thing. I mean,

440
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 3: Brad Lander who defeated Dan Goldman. You know, I could

441
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: not really think of two more opposite avatars for the

442
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: Democratic Party.

443
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 4: Right jeans.

444
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know the fact that Brad Lander, you know,

445
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 3: a puts his body on the line, actually got arrested

446
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 3: in a nice protest, that's right. And also is very

447
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: clearly a man of his convictions. And again, even if

448
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 3: you disagree with him, you have to realize that. And

449
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: whereas Dan Goldman just and and look, I don't want

450
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: to you know, completely bad now to me, he did

451
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: decent work with the impeachment stuff, but he very much

452
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 3: seems like a like a corporate Democrat and that's not

453
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: that's certainly not the mood of New York right now. Yeah,

454
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: And that race wasn't particularly close as it turned.

455
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Out, No, it was not. And it's funny because it's like,

456
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: you know, if you looked at the district above it,

457
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: Dan Goldman maybe could have I mean, you know, Micah

458
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: is not so different than Dangle. I mean, I think

459
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: he's more of a Mente guy. But ultimately Micah did

460
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: not run in a completely and you know, a completely

461
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: different way. He ran a somewhat similar way, but it

462
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: was you know, you have to be where you're from, right.

463
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, we keep

464
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: hearing about all this anti semitism on the left, is

465
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 3: what made these candidates win. It's like, I mean, first

466
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: of all, as you said, both Lando and Goldman Jewish.

467
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: That is, if not the biggest Jewish district in the country,

468
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 3: then it's the second biggest. I can't remember. So you're

469
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 3: talking about a lot of Jewish voters who voted for

470
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: the Jewish brad Lander, and somehow this is anti Semitic

471
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: or bad for the Jews. And I think the actual

472
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: truth is that blindly supporting Israel is finally not the

473
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: way to win every Jewish vote any and in some

474
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: cases any And I think obviously that's a good thing.

475
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of politicians who have

476
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: been used to blindly supporting Israel, whether they actually support

477
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: Israel or not, but just to get the Jewish should vote,

478
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: are going to have to realize that that doesn't really

479
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 3: play in the era of Net and Yahoo and Gaza

480
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 3: and everything else disgusting.

481
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: Going on over there.

482
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: Andy Levy, Mollie john Fest, will you come back.

483
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: Sure, I'll stay now. We can talk for like another

484
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: three four hours. Jesse is enormous.

485
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: Not Joe Baby, It's not Jill Rogan. I'll bring back

486
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: the dog. Chris Murphy is the junior Senator from Connecticut

487
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: and author of the Crisis of the Common Good, The

488
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 1: Fight for Meaning and Connection in a Broken America. Welcome, Welcome,

489
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: Senator Chris Murphy.

490
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 4: What's up?

491
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: Tell me about this book, Crisis of the Common Good?

492
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 4: This is a book about the thing that led to Trump.

493
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: Right.

494
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 4: I get that Trump is the main character, and I

495
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 4: get that we got to feed him in this ball

496
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: election and then in twenty twenty eight. But Trump is

497
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: a symptom of something left my cities that's been going

498
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 4: in this country for a long time. And this book

499
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 4: is about, you know, what I call the crisis of

500
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 4: the Common Good. A country that has kind of come

501
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: a part of the scenes where we care a lot

502
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 4: less about each other, where we are living lives of

503
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: increasing isolation, where we think that if we just buy

504
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 4: things or update our iPhone will feel good when actually

505
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: the best feelings happiness comes from communion, shared projects with

506
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 4: your neighbors. It's a book about what happened to us

507
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 4: spiritually so that we elected a comment, right, a xenophobic,

508
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 4: gracis reckless, unprepared comment to be president of the United States.

509
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 4: And it's a book that says the real work is

510
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: not just beating him an election. With the real work,

511
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 4: it's fixing a broken economy and a broken culture in

512
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 4: which we just don't have the kind of meaning and

513
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 4: connection and purpose in our lives that we should. And

514
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 4: he's a symptom really of that. So that's what this

515
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 4: book is about. It's not a traditional political book. There's

516
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: not a lot of me in this book. There's a

517
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: very little political analysis. It's more of a kind of

518
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 4: spiritual reckoning for the country and what we have to

519
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 4: do to just feel better about our lives so that

520
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 4: we are less likely to elect another downal God.

521
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: So does this mean that this is not like an

522
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm running for president book?

523
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 4: Another interviewer said, I know you're not running for president,

524
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: because you wouldn't have written this book if you were.

525
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: I have no idea what I'm doing, but I do

526
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: want our campaign to be about something more than just

527
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: increasing GDP or improving our kids' test scores. I want

528
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 4: our campaign this fall and next fall to be about

529
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 4: a spiritual renaissance of this country. And I hope that

530
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 4: some of the language in this book is easily accessible

531
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: for anybody who's running in twenty twenty eight who wants

532
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 4: to call on Americans to do more and be more

533
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: than just market participants.

534
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: First of all, is the problem spiritual? And if the

535
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: problem is spiritual, what does that mean?

536
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 4: Well, when I say spiritual, I don't mean religious. I

537
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 4: mean that what makes you happy, that's known who you are,

538
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 4: you have a positive identity, feeling like you belong to something,

539
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 4: having real relationships in your life, knowing what your purpose is. Right.

540
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 4: And I argue in this book that, well, that stuff

541
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 4: may sound like kind of for foo, like things that

542
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 4: government isn't supposed to worry about. In fact, the Declaration

543
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 4: of Independence, we're celebrating two hundred and fifty years since

544
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 4: the signing of that document, like commandsments care about happiness,

545
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: Like it says, government is supposed to create the condition

546
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 4: so that everybody can pursue happiness, And we're really just

547
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: not thinking about that anymore. We think we're doing our

548
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: job if unemployment is low and inflation is low and kids'

549
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: test scores are improving, But there's not a lot of

550
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 4: correlation between those things and happiness. And so this book

551
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 4: is really a book about what brings happiness, and that

552
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: is feeling power and agency in your life and feeling

553
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: like you belong to someone, feeling like you're connected to

554
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 4: your community. And government's actually been making it harder for

555
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: you to feel powerful, it's been making it harder for

556
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: you to find connection and shared purpose with other people,

557
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 4: and that we should fix that, and that our campaigns

558
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: should be about fixing those problems, making people feel powerful

559
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 4: and making people feel more connected to the common good.

560
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: You once said to me that I ask you why

561
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: there hadn't been really any regulation on technology, and you

562
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: had a really smart answer that was basically just a

563
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: perverse incentive structure that caused people to not regulate through

564
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: what was essentially bribes whatever that looked like. And that

565
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: can mean any number of things. You know, employment, etc.

566
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: Were like on the precipice of a real crisis when

567
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: it comes to regulation and technology, and so far zero

568
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: points on the board for legislators. Do you think that's

569
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: like the biggest issue at this moment and what does

570
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: that look like?

571
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the biggest issue in America today is

572
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: whether or not working to protect people the existential threats

573
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 4: of AI. Chapter three in this book is the cult

574
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: of technology, and it's right in the middle of the

575
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 4: book for or reason. The book is structured around six cults,

576
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 4: six sets of belief six sets of beliefs that are

577
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: untrue but that accrue to the benefit of a small

578
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 4: number of people. And the cult of technology is this

579
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 4: belief that any new development is going to be a

580
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: net positive and that the market will be able to

581
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 4: control for the excesses. We'll be able to shave off

582
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 4: the rough edges that are not true. For a AI

583
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: in the end may destroy our economy, It may destroy

584
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 4: our society if it is unregulated, if we don't protect

585
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 4: people from it. And the biggest question for government over

586
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 4: the next ten years is are we going to rise

587
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: to that challenge because it's not just about job destruction.

588
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 4: It is very much about happiness and meaning. If machines

589
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 4: in ten years are doing everything that make humans humans,

590
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 4: They're doing composition, creativity, they're doing friendship figure problem solving

591
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 4: what is left of us as a human race. I

592
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 4: think the spiritual rot that happens from that will lead

593
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 4: to societal to disintegration potentially, And so we are in

594
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: a race to try to protect humans not just from

595
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 4: the job dislocation, but from the spiritual dislocation that will

596
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 4: come from advanced AI. That's the biggest issue confronting us,

597
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 4: and this book makes the case that it is not

598
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 4: just the practical question of whether you have a job

599
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 4: or not. It's a metaphysical question of whether there's anything

600
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: left to your human soul when machines do everything better

601
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 4: than humans do it.

602
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: Well, that was light. That made me so much better.

603
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you could. But it's not too late, right,

604
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 4: It's not too late. You can choose to protect us

605
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 4: from the excesses. And this book lays out the simple

606
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 4: first steps that you can take to protect humans from AI.

607
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 4: And it also makes the case that that's not super political.

608
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 4: There are lots of people on the right who want

609
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 4: to be protected, as there are on the left.

610
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: But you serve in the United States, it's government pretty

611
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: much the highest level, right, I mean, in our president,

612
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm pretty high. Do you think these people. I mean

613
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: they didn't regulate Facebook. We look at climate change, I

614
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: mean Trump is a you know, we don't have a

615
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: shared set of facts anymore. Like, how are they going

616
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: to do this?

617
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a huge problem. Not understating the gravity of it.

618
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 4: The last chapter of the book is the cult of corruption,

619
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 4: this idea that we have come to just accept a

620
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 4: corruption of both our economy and our politics in the

621
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 4: uncentrated power of the billionaire in corporate class will run everything.

622
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 4: So I don't think you can fix AI. I don't

623
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 4: think you could regulate AI in the way that would

624
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 4: allow it to grow, but in a responsible way, without

625
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 4: fixing our politics. Because, as you know, the AI companies

626
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 4: are planning on spending hundreds of millions of dollars, if

627
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: not billions of dollars in this election and the next

628
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 4: election to try to rig our politics so that they

629
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 4: are not regulated. I think you've got to run a campaign,

630
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 4: a public campaign against the AI company to say we

631
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: are not going to let them rig our democracy. If

632
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 4: you elect Democrats, we will fix our democracy, get billionaire

633
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 4: money out of politics, at least expose the companies for

634
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 4: what they're trying to do, and that will then allow

635
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 4: us to control AI. So in the end, you've got

636
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 4: to fix the democracy in order to be in a

637
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 4: position to regulate AI. And both of those things are

638
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 4: very politically popular. That would be a great campaign platform

639
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 4: for Democrats that we are going to get billionaires out

640
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 4: of control of our politics so that we can protect

641
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 4: you from AI.

642
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: How did Trump get re elected again?

643
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 4: I make the argument in this book that the right

644
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: broadly has done a much better job of analyzing the

645
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 4: spiritual state of the country than democrats have. For instance,

646
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: people feel out of control of their economic lives. They

647
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 4: just they put a lot of work in and they

648
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 4: don't move, and they kind of know why that it's

649
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 4: these corporations and billionaires that have just orted all the

650
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: money and all the power. Trump understood that that people

651
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 4: didn't feel powerful, and so he crafted a campaign that

652
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: talked about making the government powerful. Now, he had all

653
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 4: the wrong prescriptions. He said it was immigrants that were

654
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 4: taking your jobs. But he had a solution, I'm going

655
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 4: to put up a wall. Now, his critique of outsourcing

656
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 4: was not wrong, but tariffs alone don't do the job.

657
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 4: But all that rhetoric from Trump is about power. This

658
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 4: country is powerless in the face of outsourcing. No, we're

659
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 4: not terrorsts. This country is powerless in the face of migration.

660
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 4: No putting up a wall. Monald Harris. I don't do

661
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, critique of her campaign because

662
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 4: she was put in such a bad spot. But she

663
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 4: had a chance to run the final parts of that

664
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 4: campaign on a message of power. The billionaires and the

665
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 4: corporations have too much of it. I'm going to take

666
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 4: it from them and give it to you. He didn't

667
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 4: run that. She finished the campaign literally standing next to

668
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: Mark Cuban and the Cheney family, like, you know, the

669
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 4: economic elites of America, and people are like, I don't

670
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 4: think she gets it. I don't think she gets that

671
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 4: somebody is screwing us. At least Trump tells us who's

672
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 4: ruin us again he named the wrong people. But she's

673
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 4: not telling us a narrative and not giving us a

674
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: prescription on how she's going to make us more powerful.

675
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: Basically, the idea was that if you thought she was

676
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: right leaning enough and pro business enough that she could

677
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: sort of win the middle. And you know, I'm sure

678
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: you were at the DNC, as was I, and like,

679
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't a Moslim speaker. I kept thinking

680
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: in my head, like, well, they're going to do something

681
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: for the left, which is technically the base of the party.

682
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: And it was like leon Panetta, and I just wonder

683
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: if that, like, if there was some like it just

684
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: felt like there was. That The idea was you had

685
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: to you had to appeal to the right and the

686
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: left would come, and in the end they did not.

687
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 4: Yeah. Again, I don't know that there was any messaging,

688
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 4: nuance or tactic that she could have taken. I think,

689
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 4: you know, people were feeling so crappy about Biden. They

690
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 4: were feeling so crappy about the way that the transition

691
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 4: happened from by and to Harris again in which they

692
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 4: felt powerless. Right, it seemed like an insider's deal that

693
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 4: I'm not sure she was going to make up for that.

694
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,959
Speaker 4: But it is true that that the left broadly still

695
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 4: thinks of the world in terms of right versus left,

696
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 4: whereas most people in this country think about the world

697
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 4: as worker power versus corporate power. Maybe not most people,

698
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 4: but a big chunk of the And actually, I think

699
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 4: that's the right way to think about it, is that

700
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 4: is that it's not really about right versus left. Some

701
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: issues fall right versus left, But the most important issues

702
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: are worker power versus cootporate power. That's what's wrong with

703
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 4: our politics. Corporations have too much power. Regular people have

704
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 4: too little. That's what's wrong with our economy. Corporations have

705
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: too much power, people have too little. And so if

706
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 4: you run a campaign that's structured around being for workers

707
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 4: all the time and being for the diminishment of corporate

708
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 4: and billionaire power, I just think you're able to cut

709
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 4: across right left and get into Trump's space in a

710
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 4: way that her campaign and conventional democratic campaigns are not.

711
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 4: And again, because you're speaking to people's spiritship. They know

712
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: that somebody is screwing them. They know that somebody is

713
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 4: robbing them of power. And a message about corporations, billionaire

714
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 4: screwing Americans making you like more miserable, that is a

715
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 4: much more compelling, much more spiritually based message than a

716
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 4: message about just sort of turning the knobs a little

717
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: bit to the left on the dials of the market

718
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: based economy.

719
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: That was what Bernie did, right, And I mean when

720
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: you talk to like Dan Osborne, Graham Platin, or Rob

721
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: sand they all say similar or not. A left versus right,

722
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: but up versus down.

723
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think the mistake that we make is

724
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: allowing people to believe that when it comes to the economy,

725
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: there are only two choices, profit obsessed market fundamentalism, which

726
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 4: is what we have now, or socialism, and that is

727
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 4: not true. I make the case in this book that

728
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 4: there is actually something called a common good capitalism, and

729
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: I get it. Books on the far left when I

730
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 4: say that, sort of scoff and say there's no version

731
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: of capitalism that will ever work for workers. But I

732
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 4: think there is. And I make an argument in this

733
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 4: book that setting a higher floor, much higher minimum wage,

734
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 4: much higher benefit floor, aggressively breaking up concentrated or for power,

735
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: preferring the decentralization of power in the economy so that

736
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 4: you know, in our local communities, the bank and the

737
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 4: hospital and the grocery store owned by our neighbors, that's

738
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 4: a common good capitalism. And I think that's a winning

739
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 4: message that again speak to Trump's base and hold our

740
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 4: base together. And I think that maybe the reason that

741
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 4: sort of Bernie's message hasn't gotten over the hump is

742
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 4: that people are not ready to give up on capitalism completely,

743
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 4: but they want it to work fundamentally differently than it

744
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: works today.

745
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. And the whole idea of you know,

746
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: unions is to work within a capitalist system, right, and

747
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: even single payer is ultimately to work within a capitalist system.

748
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty small group that wants to

749
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: give up capitalism, but I know it's there when you

750
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: look at what's coming down the we have these midterms.

751
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: Trump is going to just do everything you can to

752
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: make life difficult for everyone. But it does seem as

753
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: if the Republicans are just underwater every which way and

754
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: they can't get out of their own way. When you

755
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: think about the midterms, do you feel that there is

756
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: I mean, this is something my listeners care a lot

757
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: about and are very anxious about. Do you feel that

758
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: there are the kind of tools to push back against

759
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: what Trump is going to try to do? And do

760
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: you feel like you're going to be able to get

761
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: everybody seated in January?

762
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I feel better about our chances, you know,

763
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 4: to run in a free and fair election than I

764
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: have at any.

765
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 3: Point in the last Oh.

766
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a year and a half and I, as

767
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 4: you know, one of the one of the alarmists a

768
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 4: year ago because their options are running fin right, registering

769
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 4: help them a little bit, but not enough. The courts

770
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 4: have basically said, no, we're not going to allow you

771
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 4: to deploy the military to say Act is not going

772
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 4: to pass. So they just don't have as many plays

773
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 4: to run as we thought they did. Yes, ultimately they could,

774
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 4: you know, try to screw up the seating of Democratic members,

775
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 4: but the courts, you know, I mean Trump lost what

776
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 4: all forty of the cases that he ran trying to

777
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 4: get him self seed even though he lost the election.

778
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 4: The courts have not shown a willingness to buy that argument,

779
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 4: and a lot of that will be litigated in the court.

780
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 4: I'm not saying we don't have to still be vigilant,

781
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 4: but I think we should give ourselves a little bit

782
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 4: of a pat on the back collectively as a movement,

783
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 4: because I think we're in a pretty good position to

784
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 4: have a free and fair election almost everywhere, to win,

785
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 4: and then the problem will be governant.

786
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: It's well within the reran to possibility that Democrats went

787
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: in back the Senate and you are going to have

788
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: a real problem on our hands because leadership is totally

789
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: out of touch. So what is the move there?

790
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 4: I just want us to run a campaign in which

791
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 4: we may clear that the primary problem is the rigged democracy.

792
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 4: And I know a lot of times Democrats have problems

793
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: with self critique, right, but the democracy is rigged. And

794
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 4: if we win, we should make our number one issue

795
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 4: getting billionaire and corporate money out of politics. And I

796
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 4: worry that we're not going to run a race that

797
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 4: is going to have that as our number one issue,

798
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 4: that it's going to be again more kind of incremental

799
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 4: dial turns that's going to show up on our top

800
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 4: five lists, you know, right now, regardless of what people

801
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 4: think of the leadership of the Democratic Party, like this

802
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 4: is the team that's going into the fall. So we

803
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: just have to work really hard to win the elections.

804
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 4: I've got to win this internal argument on you know,

805
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 4: exactly what our message is going to be, but I

806
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: think it's got to be, you know, not incremental change,

807
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 4: but serious revolutionary change. I make the argument of this

808
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 4: book that we should be for like a twenty five

809
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 4: dollars minimum wage and not just talking about changing and

810
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: on rigging the economy, but on rigging the democracy as well.

811
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: And if Democrats to win back the Senate, are there

812
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: the numbers for real generational change.

813
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 4: I don't know that day will come, and it'll kind

814
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 4: of depend on how we did. I mean again, if

815
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: we win back the Senate by big margins, you know,

816
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 4: the critique of leadership just honestly will be less pungent.

817
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: And that is the worry that I think a lot

818
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: of us have, is that if leadership lucks into Democrats

819
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: winning the Senate, will they be able to continue on

820
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: when we know that they're very entrenched in technology companies

821
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: in every which way.

822
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't think it makes a lot of

823
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: sense to spend the next five months talking and worrying

824
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 4: about that problem. Like our primary problem is saving our

825
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 4: democracy and beating these totalitarians in the fall, and so

826
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 4: we just have to focus on that.

827
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you, Thank you, Chris Murphy.

828
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 4: Great to see you.

829
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: Now momently.

830
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon my junk fast.

831
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 4: So.

832
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: One of the things I remember when we were making

833
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: our documentary on Project twenty twenty five was how bold

834
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: the Heritage Foundation was and they're bragging and being open

835
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 2: about these unpopular things they wanted. Well, now they're bragging

836
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: that more than half of it has been implemented.

837
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is you know, remember when we said,

838
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to do project twenty twenty five

839
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, I'm not, I've never heard

840
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: of it. And like half the chapters were written by

841
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: people from the first Trump administration and Russ Vaught, who

842
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: is the head of Office and Management and Budget. My

843
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: man Russ Vaught was just on there. You know, he

844
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: had written a chapter and he went right back to

845
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: being the head of Management and Budget. So here we go. Basically,

846
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 1: over half of what was in this blueprint has been

847
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: put into practice. And this is things like cutting SoC services,

848
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: making it so that federal agencies don't have the same

849
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: kind of services they used to, don't have the same

850
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of oversight. You know. This is ending protections for workers,

851
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: tightening controls over agencies which used to be independent, Stripping

852
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: civil service protections from thousands of federal workers, ending federal union,

853
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: stepping away from policies aimed at improving outcomes for non

854
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: white job candidates. I mean, basically everything you can possibly

855
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: imagine that sucks, this crew has done. That's it for

856
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

857
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics,

858
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

859
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

860
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.