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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, your

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Speaker 2: weekly reminder that people can do good things as well

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Speaker 2: as bad things. Sometimes they do the bad thing good

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Speaker 2: good things because bad things have happened. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy and with me as my guest is Miriam.

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Speaker 3: Hi. I'm Miriam.

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Speaker 2: Miriam's one of our favorite guests. We don't have favorites,

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Speaker 2: but you're my favorite podcast to come on. Oh and

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Speaker 2: your favorite podcast to come on is produced by none

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Speaker 2: other than Sophie Lichterman.

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Speaker 1: Heh yeah, that's me, Hi.

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Speaker 2: And it is audio engineered by Ian Hi Ian Hian.

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Speaker 1: We remember to do it this time.

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Speaker 3: It's important to say hi to Ian. We almost forgot

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Speaker 3: last time, and then last episode had so much genocide

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Speaker 3: in it.

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Speaker 2: Yep. Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman

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Speaker 2: and you can now find the theme song in full.

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Speaker 2: It's only about a minute and a half long on

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Speaker 2: on women's band camp.

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Speaker 3: Un Woman is so good.

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Speaker 2: I know. I was like, and people are like every

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Speaker 2: now and then people ask like, what's the deal with

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Speaker 2: the theme music? And I was like, I wanted something

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Speaker 2: that sounded really funny when contrasted to the shit I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be talking about.

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Speaker 3: Can I tell you a true story about Unwoman that

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Speaker 3: makes me super happy?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: A while ago, I was I was working in a

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Speaker 3: museum that incorporated a lot of like historical building, and

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Speaker 3: some ghost hunters came to like film a TV show

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Speaker 3: or something, and they were like skulking around the historical

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Speaker 3: building hunting ghosts. It was a it was a whole thing.

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Speaker 3: But I was musing on like my social media about

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Speaker 3: how fun it would be to prank them, and this

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Speaker 3: ended up with Unwoman recording a ghostly like a ghost

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Speaker 3: the old timey version of Rick Astley's Never Going to

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Speaker 3: Give You Up, with the idea being that I would

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Speaker 3: conceal a small speaker somewhere to like draw the ghost

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Speaker 3: hunters to this like eerie, creepy music that when they

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Speaker 3: got very close they wit realize was Rick Astley's Never

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Speaker 3: Going to Give You Up, which I did not end

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Speaker 3: up doing because I think the ghost hunters were like

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Speaker 3: out of the building by the time this idea had

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Speaker 3: been hatched and this recording had been made. But Unwoman

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Speaker 3: is a fucking delight.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the first times I saw I'm not

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Speaker 2: on a woman for a while, but during the Oakland

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Speaker 2: General Strike of twenty eleven. There was on woman with

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Speaker 2: a cello performing for the people like locked to a bank.

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Speaker 3: It was so good, got the fucking best. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this is part two of our four part on

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Speaker 2: Lakota resistance to the American Empire. And this first week

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Speaker 2: we're talking mostly about the nineteenth century. Next week we're

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about the twentieth century. Mostly, there's a whole

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Speaker 2: there's so many centuries that happened in the past. Do

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Speaker 2: you know that there's many twenty of them.

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Speaker 3: Century takes about a week in my experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. God, i'd be so far into the

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Speaker 2: past anyway. Sometimes I think about, like how I haven't

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Speaker 2: even been doing the show for two years, but I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it's so much stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, really, like you've covered a lot. Yeah, and you're

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Speaker 3: not going to run out.

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Speaker 2: No, that's the other thing. I'm not worried.

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Speaker 3: But what if you talk about all the cool people

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Speaker 3: who have ever happened, We'll just have to make some more. Well.

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Speaker 2: It's like even like like one of the reasons you know,

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Speaker 2: I've been I've been intending to do this episode for

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Speaker 2: a long time because I specifically want to talk about

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Speaker 2: the American Indian movement because I've done so many things

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Speaker 2: about radical late sixties early seventies social movements in the

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Speaker 2: United States, and I'm like, I've gone through so many

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Speaker 2: and there's still so many more. Any American Indian movement

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Speaker 2: I knew I wanted to like really take my time

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Speaker 2: and like dig into.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think. I don't think I've heard you

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Speaker 3: touch on it in any of your other episodes.

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Speaker 2: Yea, not as much so, But that's not what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about this week where we're talking about that.

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Speaker 3: That was a teaser.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are talking about how the Black Hills is

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Speaker 2: about to be invaded by Custer and some other motherfuckers

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Speaker 2: because there's gold in it, and what a treatise matter

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Speaker 2: when there's gold and people? I love how people talk

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Speaker 2: about this like that's like a human condition, you know,

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Speaker 2: But like all of the Indigenous voices at the time

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Speaker 2: were like, what the fuck is wrong with these people?

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Speaker 2: Do they not know what an agreement is? We had

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Speaker 2: an agreement? Does that is that like a Do they

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Speaker 2: just not know what that word means? Like it's their word,

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Speaker 2: It's in English?

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Speaker 3: Right, this this whole treaty signing thing was something like, yeah, not.

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Speaker 2: That people were like wildly perfect and peaceful and whatever,

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Speaker 2: you know, strange romanticization. People want to make it right.

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Speaker 3: We're not like, you don't need to like make this

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Speaker 3: into an imaginary utopia to be like, it's pretty fucked

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Speaker 3: up to sign a treaty and then six years later

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Speaker 3: to be like, oh, we've just new information has come

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Speaker 3: to light which makes our promises trash.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally turns out we were white, therefore we were

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Speaker 2: white people. The whole toxes are actually trash. It's really

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Speaker 2: on you for not recognizing that. Oh god. Uh So

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Speaker 2: there are two kinds of officers in the US Army

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Speaker 2: at this time. There's guys like Custer who are just

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Speaker 2: rotten to their fucking core, right, and then there are

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Speaker 2: these like high minded noble guys who have complicated feelings

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Speaker 2: about it all and want to be gentlemanly, improper and

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Speaker 2: polite and even want to respect the treaties. But orders

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Speaker 2: are orders. The guy in charge of this campaign, General

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Speaker 2: George Crook, he's in the latter camp. This is not better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, if the end result is massacres,

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Speaker 3: I don't really care how bad the person doing it

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Speaker 3: feels about it.

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Speaker 2: Doing what you know to be wrong? Is it better

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Speaker 2: than doing wrong because you think it's right, it might

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Speaker 2: be wor parguably worse. Yeah, yeah, And like look there's

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Speaker 2: scales of that, right, Like, we all participate in capitalism

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Speaker 2: and we know it's bad, you know, And so I

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Speaker 2: think everyone knowing that it's bad is a good step, right,

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Speaker 2: But when you're talking about the kinds of crimes that

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Speaker 2: this man is going to directly oversee, like now, fuck him.

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Speaker 2: So he gave this famous answer. He was asked basically,

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Speaker 2: he's like, is it hard for you to gear up

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Speaker 2: to go to another Indian? And his quote is, yes,

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Speaker 2: it is hard, But sir, the hardest thing is to

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Speaker 2: go and fight those whom you know are in the right. Oh,

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Speaker 2: if only there were an alternative. Yeah, that's the military.

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Speaker 2: That's that's lawful neutral right there, you know, which is

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Speaker 2: the same as lawful evil. Because lawful evil.

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Speaker 3: You I believe you have an essay called lawful Ain't Good,

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Speaker 3: which I quote at at times in gaming circles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my theory is that there's only eight h eight

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Speaker 2: alignments because lawful good is a contradiction. It makes me

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Speaker 2: really popular.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, you can tell we had cool childhoods.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. We didn't meet on a steampunk convention.

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Speaker 3: We didn't. We met in the parking lot of a

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Speaker 3: steampunk convention.

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Speaker 2: That's right where Miriam was dressed up as steampunk im

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Speaker 2: a goldman giving a pretty good labor speech.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Uh did you know that I got in trouble with

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Speaker 3: the operator of that steampunk convention because I got people

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Speaker 3: riled up about the fact that he was holding conventions

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Speaker 3: at non union hotels.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, hell, yeah, good, which is to say, no

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Speaker 2: matter what culture or subculture you're in, you can do

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Speaker 2: fun things with it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, you can function up anywhere. People won't stop you.

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Speaker 3: That's not true. People will try to stop you. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you can function up anywhere. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, crime is legal. You can just do anything

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Speaker 2: you want sort of all right, So neither of us

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Speaker 2: are lawyers. Yeah, that's right, but we are your lawyer anyway.

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Speaker 2: In the Black Hills, all sorts of bands and tribes

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Speaker 2: and folks are gathering forces to unite against this invasion

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Speaker 2: that they know is coming. White historians call it the

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Speaker 2: largest gathering of Nati American people in history. Up to

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Speaker 2: that point. Indigenous scholars are like, no, we've had bigger

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Speaker 2: you just weren't around.

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Speaker 3: People were gathering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sitting Bowl had a vision of blue jacketed soldiers

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Speaker 2: falling from the sky into his camp. Sometimes I see

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Speaker 2: it phrase as like like grasshoppers and and so he's like,

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Speaker 2: this is this is coming. So the indigenous rebels they attack.

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Speaker 3: Which the like grasshoppers. That's like a image of like

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Speaker 3: and of like a devastation, right, because these those like

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Speaker 3: grasshoppers swamps that would fall out of the sky would

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Speaker 3: like eat everything. Yeah, No, that makes sense, leave bare

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Speaker 3: ground in their wake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is pretty fucking accurate. What happens. So the

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Speaker 2: indigenous rebels attack the invaders, and there are several successful battles. Uh.

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Speaker 2: The one that's in the history books is called the

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Speaker 2: Battle of Greasy Grass, only it's not under in history books.

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Speaker 2: Under that name. There's a river that the Lakota called

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Speaker 2: Greasy Grass, the Americans call Little Big Horn. This is

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Speaker 2: the battle on Yeah, this is the single greatest victory

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Speaker 2: in the Indian Wars for the good guy side. Arman

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Speaker 2: Custer is in charge of the seventh Cavalry and he

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Speaker 2: sees this huge indigenous village and He's like, fuck yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's go kidnap everyone there. Let's just like like fuck

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Speaker 2: it up. You know, We'll like we're like going to

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Speaker 2: kidnap everyone, and then we'll take all the non combat

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Speaker 2: and hostages and force their warriors to surrender. And also

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Speaker 2: he's a mass rapist and I'll talk about that more later,

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Speaker 2: and this would have been a massacre. He's like, let's

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Speaker 2: go massacre this village basically, and the rest of the

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Speaker 2: army was like, hey, Custer, you should lay wait for

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Speaker 2: everyone else. And Custer's like, whatever, man, I got this shit.

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Speaker 2: Fuck you dad. You know.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, I mean, not awesome what he wanted to do,

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Speaker 3: but like awesome that he didn't wait for backups.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely. It's the same fucking thing that Fetterman

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Speaker 2: did a fun like, yeah, he had a bunch of

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Speaker 2: orders like don't leave the group and don't whatever you do,

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Speaker 2: don't go over this hill, and he's just like butt

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Speaker 2: their butts. I can see their butts.

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Speaker 3: I mean, and I mean Fetterman even Mors was like,

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Speaker 3: I only need like eighty guys, like don't even send

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Speaker 3: me more guys. And the American Army in this case

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Speaker 3: is like Custer we are literally sending you more guys,

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Speaker 3: and he's like, but I want to do murder now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's getting dark. I don't know what time

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Speaker 2: of day it was. He had crow scouts with him,

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Speaker 2: and the crow were on the US side during most

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Speaker 2: of this because two generations prior to the Lakota kicked

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Speaker 2: them out of where they were living, so they're kind

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Speaker 2: of mad, you know. And one of his crow scouts

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Speaker 2: is a guy named half yellow Face who was like, Yo,

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Speaker 2: Custer as a bad call, you shouldn't do that. Specifically,

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Speaker 2: he said, you and I are going home today by

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Speaker 2: a road we do not know, and.

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Speaker 3: That is a very very cool way to try to

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Speaker 3: advise your shitty boss not to do this shitty thing.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna die if we do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe that was the problem. Maybe he was a

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Speaker 3: little to a little too flowery in his language. I know,

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Speaker 3: it was the nineteenth century, you know, but maybe Coster

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Speaker 3: wasn't quite literate enough for that metaphor and he needed

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Speaker 3: a like, yeah, you're gonna.

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Speaker 4: Die real hard. Yeah, he wouldn't have listened. He was

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Speaker 4: an no, he absolute would not have listened. And so

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Speaker 4: they just wildly underestimated the numbers and the prowess of

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Speaker 4: indigenous warriors, and the seventh Cavalry was wiped out. Custer

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Speaker 4: had his last stand, and he did what he should

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Speaker 4: have done way earlier, which is die.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No one knows exactly how his day went. There's lots

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Speaker 2: of stories around it, but no one knows exactly because

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Speaker 2: all of his buddies also died.

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Speaker 3: Right because he The thing about getting all your buddies

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Speaker 3: killed is there's no one left on your side to

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Speaker 3: tell you the story of how cool you looked when

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Speaker 3: you died, and it's yeah, and everyone's just gonna be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably pissed his pants.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That guy he got shot in the chest. He

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Speaker 2: also had a bullet and his skull that was probably

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Speaker 2: after he died. That was probably alike. Let's just fucking ma,

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Speaker 2: this is Custer. We should work and make you want

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Speaker 2: to make sure. Yeah, so died the man that Vine

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Speaker 2: Deloria Junior called the iikemen of the planes because he

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Speaker 2: was following a policy of genocide from his higher ups.

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Speaker 2: General Sherman wrote, quote, we must act with vindictive earnestness

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Speaker 2: against the Sioux, even to their extermination men, women and children.

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Speaker 2: During an assault the soldiers cannot pause to distinguish between

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Speaker 2: male and female, or even to discriminate against age.

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Speaker 3: Sounds sounds about right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Custer was also a serial rapist of indigenous women,

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Speaker 2: by all accounts, including the accounts of his own men.

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Speaker 2: They didn't phrase it that way, but they described it,

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Speaker 2: so it makes it extra nice that the Cheyenn account

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Speaker 2: of the battle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was one thing. You promised me three wounds.

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Speaker 3: I've heard about two. I would like to hear about

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Speaker 3: the other way Custer died, please.

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Speaker 2: Shayanne account of the battle says that it was a

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Speaker 2: woman named Buffalo calf road woman who knocked him off

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Speaker 2: his horse before he died. Fuck yeah, And she absolutely

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Speaker 2: was present in the battle. You know, she fought as

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Speaker 2: alongside her. Her husband, Black Coyote, fought alongside her in

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Speaker 2: that battle. Also, they brought war journalists with them while

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Speaker 2: they were like let's go massacre.

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Speaker 3: These people, like like.

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Speaker 2: An Associated Press guy was just with them, just like to.

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Speaker 3: Let everyone know how how well this was going.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he died too.

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Speaker 3: I a thing that I heard, and this is something

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Speaker 3: I like learned very recently. I don't know if you

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Speaker 3: if you also learned this in your research was that

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Speaker 3: the women present at the battle level little big Horn

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Speaker 3: stab Custers through like once he had been killed, stabbed him,

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Speaker 3: I think, like through the ear drums with their needles,

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Speaker 3: saying like like you will like basically next time you'll

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Speaker 3: listen good something like that, or you like you will listen,

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Speaker 3: you'll like you will hear us. Basically I could be

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Speaker 3: totally butchering that story.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean good, and like you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of accounts of the battle, but I have no

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Speaker 2: reason to no particular reason to doubt the Shian versions

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Speaker 2: or other versions of it. Like, and there's like all

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Speaker 2: these things that people tried to be like he died nobly.

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Speaker 2: He didn't. He just wrote off to go get murdered,

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Speaker 2: and he got him murdered.

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Speaker 3: Just losing real heart sometimes gets romanticized as dying nobly,

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Speaker 3: like you know, have like that like that poem where

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Speaker 3: the guys on horses ride against tanks in the Crimean

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Speaker 3: war whatever, and it's like it's not necessarily heroic to

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Speaker 3: lose real heart, Like sometimes you're just sometimes you're just

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Speaker 3: Custer and you just suck and you die real hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Dilate he lived shitty. Another guy who fought in

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Speaker 2: that battle is a man named Black Elk, who's most

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Speaker 2: famous these days for his book Black Elk Speaks, which

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Speaker 2: was hugely influential on me when I was like a

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Speaker 2: baby anarchist, and he's gonna he's sort of a background

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Speaker 2: guy through a lot of this stuff. No good deed

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Speaker 2: goes unpunished, and the reprisals from the destruction of a

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Speaker 2: serial rapist genocider continue to this day. America has not

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Speaker 2: gotten over the fact that some lady fucking killed a

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Speaker 2: rapist who didn't consider her human.

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Speaker 3: A rapist who didn't consider her human, who nobody on

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Speaker 3: the American side particularly liked anyway. Yeah, Like everybody was like, man,

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Speaker 3: that guy's a real piece of shit, and then some

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Speaker 3: indigenous people kill him and were like, hey, that was

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Speaker 3: our piece of shit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Basically, so, the US more or less declares

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Speaker 2: the eighteen sixty eight Treaty, which they've already broken the

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Speaker 2: shit out of, invalid, and they were like, but we

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Speaker 2: want to do it sort of paperworky. So they demand

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Speaker 2: that the reservation give up the Black Hills and a

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Speaker 2: ton of other land, all with like right of way

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Speaker 2: through everything for roads and shit. Anyone who doesn't agree.

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Speaker 2: Can fucking starve Red Cloud was forced to sign, as

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Speaker 2: were the other chiefs who weren't at war, and twenty

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Speaker 2: two point eight million acres were seated, which is a

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Speaker 2: third of the total, but the best third of this

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Speaker 2: particular reservation, and the remaining folks are forced to live

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Speaker 2: in like clearcut areas and places that have already been

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Speaker 2: resource extracted. There's absolutely no way that this could be legal.

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Speaker 2: Three quarters of the men could not have signed this

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Speaker 2: agreement because they didn't show up, because they were at.

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Speaker 3: War, right, because they were actively fighting to defend that land.

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Speaker 2: Right, and the signatures that do appear were coerced at gunpoint.

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Speaker 2: But laws only a cudgel in the hands of the powerful,

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Speaker 2: and it's never been anything but that. Sitting Bowl and

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Speaker 2: some other war chiefs and their warriors retreated north into Canada,

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Speaker 2: while Crazy Horse, Heat Dog, Little Big Man, Iron Crow

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Speaker 2: and a few of the other war chiefs. In the end,

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Speaker 2: they decided to surrender. Basically, they were like, like, I suspect.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't like I'm a die if I don't surrender.

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Speaker 2: It was like all my people are going to die.

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Speaker 3: The people that I'm responsible for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, And they were promised that they could

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Speaker 2: live like on good hunting reservations and shit if they

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Speaker 2: would just surrender.

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Speaker 3: And we've definitely got reason to trust those promises at

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 2: As soon as they show up to surrender in Nebraska,

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Speaker 2: the US pretended like they had never made the offer,

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Speaker 2: of course.

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Speaker 3: I mean, and I can understand, like why you would.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's like that was the only thing on

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Speaker 3: the table, right.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, because again it wasn't just for them, it

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Speaker 2: was for the people that they're responsible for. And Crazy

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Speaker 2: Horse spent four months living in like sort of captivity

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Speaker 2: on a reservation and then he was arrested. He tried

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Speaker 2: to resist and he was stabbed to death with bayonets.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of versions of how he died. I

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Speaker 2: don't have a specific really reason to believe any of

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Speaker 2: Them's a lot of arguing about it, So I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to go with he tried to resist and he

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Speaker 2: was stabbed to death bayonets.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even whatever, whatever the particular account of his

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Speaker 3: death is, he tried to resist and was murdered by

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Speaker 3: the US army seems to sum it up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Spotted Tail, one of the war leaders who'd signed

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Speaker 2: away the Black Hills. He's living large, he has a

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Speaker 2: three story house, and he starts demanding, well, he's been

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Speaker 2: demanding tribut because it's chief, but he starts demanding tribute

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Speaker 2: that of his subordinates. That is like, as far as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, new and not part of tradition. He

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Speaker 2: starts demanding women, sometimes including I believe married women, but

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Speaker 2: I'm not certain. But so his cousin crow Dog was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm gonna fucking kill you and then

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Speaker 2: killed him.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah.

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Speaker 2: That is one of the three motives that has been

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Speaker 2: presented for crow Dogs killing of Spotted Tail. The another

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Speaker 2: is an argument over like a specific one of the

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Speaker 2: women who has taken a tribute, which might have been

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Speaker 2: Crowdog's family. Another is that crow Dog was like doing

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Speaker 2: the US's dirty work to break up the power of

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Speaker 2: the chiefs by killing Spotted Tail. I find the first

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Speaker 2: argument most convincing, and the historians that I've read, who, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I find it most convincing that it was like you

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Speaker 2: have fucking you're a cellar piece of shit. You gotta

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Speaker 2: fucking go.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't I mean, one one of the one of

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Speaker 3: the many terrible things about state repression is that it

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Speaker 3: turns any internal conflict into like somebody doing the dirty

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Speaker 3: work of the state, right.

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Speaker 2: Like totally.

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Speaker 3: And like which you know it's it's that you made

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Speaker 3: a convincing case that this that Krownok got a legitimate

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Speaker 3: grievance and reason to kill this guy. Yeah, and without

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Speaker 3: the US government being behind that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what the US government also is

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Speaker 2: behind isn't behind our ads? Some of them government no

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Speaker 2: government not only make it better?

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Speaker 1: Are the ones that we personally approve.

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Speaker 2: Well, did you know that we're an ad supported podcast

395
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Speaker 2: unless you have cooler zone media, in which case you

396
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Speaker 2: just get to hear us talk about ads all the

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Speaker 2: time and hopefully it's entertaining for you. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what I would do if we didn't have ads, because

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Speaker 2: I like doing my weird transitions.

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Speaker 1: You're so good at it now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can just do the weird transitions and then

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Speaker 3: not play any ads. I mean that's also kind of

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Speaker 3: what we're doing sitting here, since it's it's not your

404
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Speaker 3: job to actually put the ads in there, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Do you ever feel tempted to do that in conversation?

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Speaker 3: If there's an awkward pause? Because if you do, you've

407
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Speaker 3: been podcasting too much and you should take a break.

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Speaker 2: Know what I do is I do transitions while I'm

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Speaker 2: like in meetings, I'm like speaking of and then like

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Speaker 2: and Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans does this in real life. I just want

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Speaker 1: you to know.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's.

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Speaker 1: Especially under the influence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen. If Robert Evans is getting sponsored while just

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Speaker 3: hanging out under the influence, more power to him.

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Speaker 2: I know, if you want to, I'll shout out fucking

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Speaker 2: ship in the middle of a conversation.

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Speaker 3: I'll just I'll product place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally grey, here's some ads, and we're back. And

421
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Speaker 2: so there's this whole big thing. There's a hole to

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Speaker 2: do about this murder, because I mean, it is a murder.

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Speaker 2: Whatever whether or not it's justified, it's not really going punished.

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Speaker 2: And so the federal government is like, what why can't

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Speaker 2: we punish it? And they're like, because this indigenous sovereignty

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Speaker 2: and there's none of your fucking business. So then the

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Speaker 2: federal government is like, what if it becomes our business?

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Speaker 2: By when we passed the Major Crimes Act. No, And

429
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Speaker 2: so this gives them jurisdiction over like fifteen specific major

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Speaker 2: crimes that happen on reservations and it's just all part

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Speaker 2: of stripping away. And so this is the like it

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Speaker 2: does kind of like fock spotted tail, but like whatever,

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Speaker 2: the government was going to do bad shit no matter what.

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Speaker 3: So right, and the government having a federal jurisdiction over

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Speaker 3: major crimes on Indian land will surely they will care

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Speaker 3: about all of those major crimes. And there will not

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Speaker 3: later be an epidemic of missing and murdered Indigenous women

438
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 3: that the federal government doesn't give a shit about.

439
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, no, I just that's something I'll shout out earnestly.

440
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: There's ways to there's like groups that you can follow

441
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: that talk about the missing and murdered Indigenous women, and it.

442
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: Is a.

443
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bad stuff continues.

444
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, spoiler alert. None of this goes none of this

445
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: ends in the United States being great.

446
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: Well, that's because we're not done yet. Not well in

447
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: the United States.

448
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: Get a little done, Margaret.

449
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: No, no, no, But the space that the US currently occupies,

450
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: I still have a lot of hope for Oh yeah, no,

451
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 2: me too. So the blackaills are stolen at this point,

452
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:44,239
Speaker 2: gold mines open. The eighteen eighty Congressional record reads one

453
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 2: talking about this quote. An idle and thriftless race of

454
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: savages cannot be permitted to stand guard at the treasure

455
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: vaults of the nation, which hold our gold and silver.

456
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: The prospector and minor may enter, and, by enriching himself,

457
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: enrich the nation and bless the world by the results

458
00:24:59,320 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: of his toil.

459
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 3: Oh, shut the fuck up.

460
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 2: I know what.

461
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: You're just reading a quote. I'm not talking to you.

462
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I know, but it means that this

463
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: is Protestant work ethic genocide, right.

464
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: And it's also like I love how it's like these

465
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: people aren't even greedy.

466
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: Oh that's gonna It's like more.

467
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: The criticism that has it's like, you know, when you're

468
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 3: like so racist that like you take the flaws of

469
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: your own society that like are recognized as flaws, right,

470
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 3: Like greed is a concept that people like have in

471
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 3: the Unite in like white among white people in the

472
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 3: United States, like, don't be greedy, that's a bad thing.

473
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 3: And then they're like, man, fuck these people, they're not

474
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 3: even greedy. We should kill them about it?

475
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: You in two paragraphs, So this isn't enough, of course,

476
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: stealing you know this this part doesn't work ethic genocide.

477
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: The government has to wipe out the buffalo too, because

478
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: they don't want anyone to be able to hunt them. Basically,

479
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: they don't want indigenous people to continue to live as

480
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: indigenous people or like in traditional ways.

481
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 3: You know, when you're so racist you wipe out an

482
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: entire environmental biome.

483
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, already scarce. By eighteen eighty three, the last

484
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: herd of the northern bison is wiped out by the government,

485
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: and in eighteen eighty one, the sun dance is forbidden,

486
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: which is a plain's traditional ritual of self sacrifice, the

487
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: very important part of a lot of different traditions and

488
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: the hatred of plains people was also anti communism in

489
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: name decades before the first Red Scare. One senator said

490
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: that it was the indigenous people's communism and holding lands

491
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: in common that was holding them back and said quote,

492
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: there is no selfish, which is at the bottom of civilization.

493
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, I okay. First of all, like

494
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 3: I am, I'm like struggling to construct some kind of

495
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 3: like shitty hipster joke about like, oh yeah, I was

496
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 3: anti communist before Karl Marx even wrote the Communist Manifesto yeah,

497
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 3: or I guess Karl Marx had written the Communist Manifesto.

498
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: Well, but they certainly were already doing that thing.

499
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's also Yeah, it's like you're just taking

500
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: things that are normally regarded as flaws and vices and

501
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 3: you're like, they don't even do selfishness. They're not even greedy,

502
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: like what just like pick anything you would normally say

503
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 3: to be like insulting about another person, Like they don't

504
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 3: even cheat on their wives like what. Like it's just

505
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: like like you're just saying flaws as like to lack

506
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 3: of lack of flaws as reasons. Not that I'm saying

507
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 3: like anybody is flawless, but you know what I mean,

508
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 3: Like they're they're pointing out like a shitty thing to

509
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 3: be like greedy or selfish and being like, well, they're

510
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: not greedy or selfish. Guess we better kill them and

511
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 3: take their shit.

512
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 2: And to be clear, I agree that selfishness is at

513
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: the bottom of civilization, but that's distinct my own negative

514
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: feelings about civilization.

515
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 3: You do live in the woods with your dog.

516
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and again it's definitions of things, And I

517
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: also want to point out that it would be generally

518
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: dangerous to specifically take Western European concepts and apply them

519
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: wholeheartedly to different indigenous groups. It is absolutely true about

520
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: things like being held in common and them not being capitalist.

521
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely it would be a I don't want to apply.

522
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: To totally, Like I'm not trying to like put.

523
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: No none of us, like giving them a hammer and sicks.

524
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 3: I'm one hundred percent sure that there were, you know,

525
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: people that there have been people in every civilization, every culture,

526
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: every community, every house, like every every group of people

527
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: bigger than one person who is like you've got somebody

528
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: there who's the selfish piece of piece of shit.

529
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: You know, you don't put them in charge of everything,

530
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: and you try not.

531
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: To put them in charge of everything and give them

532
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: lots of guns and eighty guys. But like it's it's

533
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: just so fascinating to me that like in this racist

534
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: conception of indigenous people that like white Americans are coming

535
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: up with, they are saying things that would normally be

536
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: how you would say somebody is cool, like oh yeah,

537
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: real selfless guy would be normally a thing you'd say

538
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: about a great person.

539
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Not in the Protestant worth ethic.

540
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: Land, Yeah, not if they're doing it and not if

541
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: they're doing it on land that we want.

542
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, okay, And while we're talking about communism or

543
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: while it's the.

544
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: Are you gonna work the industrial workers of the world

545
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: into this story?

546
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: Yes, but it wasn't on purpose. But what I'm going

547
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: to say is mostly right.

548
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 3: Now, who's got the bingo cards?

549
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: So we're into the eighteen eighties and labor movement in

550
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: the US is starting to pick up and starting to

551
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 2: kick ass. You want to know what the eighteen eighties

552
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: radicals had to say about indigenous resistance.

553
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: I think that it was bad.

554
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: Nothing. I can't find anything.

555
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: Yoh, that's bad.

556
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: Actually that is bad. That's what I'm saying now. I'm

557
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: certain it exists. I have not read every piece of

558
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: eighteen eighties thing I but I talked to my like

559
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: signal Chat of history nerds, and I like, the fuck.

560
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: Am I not doing Signal Chat of History nerds.

561
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: I'll talk about this later.

562
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: This is the most unkind thing you've ever said to me.

563
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: And what I do know is that in Mexico, we've

564
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: talked about this before on the show, indigenous folks and

565
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: anarchists are already working together, like ten years, twenty years,

566
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: before this to resist the state and doing all this

567
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: like amazing shit. In Mexico, you have the black indigenous anarchists,

568
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons, who's doing stuff in Chicago. But this is

569
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: not this is not tied into her indigenousity, and she

570
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: is mostly tied into the labor movement of European immigrants.

571
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: A couple decades later, the Industrial Workers of the World,

572
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: Thank You, are founded in part by Lucy Parson. I

573
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: knew it would fight for anti racist unionism with all

574
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: sorts of folks, and this will include doing a lot

575
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: of like organizing in the mines in the Southwest, with

576
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: a lot of indigenous people and indigenous miners. But it

577
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: is that is decades later. By and large, the thing

578
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: that European radicals were doing in the US was colonizing.

579
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: They were settling. And this was the era of utopian politics,

580
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: the idea that anarchists and socialists and communists and shit

581
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: would find quote empty areas and set up utopian societies.

582
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: A bunch of these happened every now, and the people

583
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: ask like, what am I going to cover this or

584
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: that one on the show? And I'm like, never been

585
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: quite sure because I'm kind of like I think they're bad,

586
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: like I think that it's cool people doing bad things,

587
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, and more or less all of these fail.

588
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: A couple weeks earlier, I should this out at the

589
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: end of the last episode on it could happen here.

590
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: Mia Wong covered really well how the colonize and oppressed

591
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 2: so quickly become the colonizers and oppressors. Like how Irish Americans. Eh,

592
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: I told you I'd bring in Irish Americans in child.

593
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: Irish Americans were so fucking shitty on colonization and race

594
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: issues in the United States right and continue to be unfortunately,

595
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: even while the Irish who stayed in Ireland are consistently

596
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: the only large population of white people who weren't wildly

597
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: fucking embarrassing right.

598
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 3: Now, it's true.

599
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: And in short, you've got a ton of communities that

600
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 2: sometimes rule like the Quakers and the anarchists, and shit out,

601
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: they're grabbing land like everyone else.

602
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

603
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: Once indigenous people got more caught up into the capitalist system,

604
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: they were more involved in the anti racist unions, and

605
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: in the modern political climate, there's a great deal of

606
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: overlap between indigenous environmentalists and leftist and anarchist communities. Is

607
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: Land back and decolonization and become more and more central

608
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: to leftist anti authoritarian analysis.

609
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 3: But it's often just lip service, though I know it's

610
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: something that I see a lot of.

611
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.

612
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not trying to be to be like

613
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: too overly critical, but I see a lot.

614
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 5: Of verbal attention paid to the idea of like doing

615
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 5: land acknowledgments versus you know, material change being pushed for.

616
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: I'm speaking mostly with my experiences in kind of a

617
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 2: direct environmental movement which has become more and more indigenous

618
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: led and more and more like working hard to adopt

619
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 2: a decolonial framework, and I challenge us to continue to

620
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: do that.

621
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's totally out there.

622
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: That's the culture that I'm more steeped in direct action wise.

623
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 3: But I think you're right now, And if you're talking

624
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 3: if we're talking about people who are actually like doing

625
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: the direct action, then like, yeah, I think that's true. Yeah,

626
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 3: not talking about my favorite people to organize with when

627
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 3: I talk about the people who love to do land

628
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 3: acknowledgements and don't love to do anything of material help.

629
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of complicated conversations about around

630
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: the politics of land acknowledgments. And I'll just point that

631
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: out without weighing in. I just try and kind of

632
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: keep on top of what's happening with it. But it's

633
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: so back to the nineteenth century.

634
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: Too early to insert a plug for going to landback

635
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 3: dot org and giving them some money.

636
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 2: No, you're never too never ever to Yeah.

637
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 3: If you've ever done a land acknowledgment, go to land

638
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: back dot or some money.

639
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: And it's not inherently bad, it's just like it's complicated. No, No,

640
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: it's a good thing to do Land acknowledgments.

641
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: It should be accompanied by action, and in this that's

642
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,399
Speaker 3: an action you can do while you listen to this podcast. Yeah,

643
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 3: I mean you can do a lot of actions while

644
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: you listen to this podcast. I'm not your dad. I'm

645
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: not going to tell you not to you know, do

646
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: anything else.

647
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: But you've heard it here first, Miriam is your dad.

648
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: I think I said I'm not your dad, but you

649
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: know I can't check. I'm not going to verify that.

650
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I won't do a paternity test for

651
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: everyone in the country like I keep trying to get

652
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: you to do.

653
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: Not until we're on live TV.

654
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 2: All right, fine, all right, In eighteen eighty seven, Congress

655
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: passed the DAWs Act, designed to destroy indigenous methods of

656
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: land allocation. I mean, every male one hundred and sixty acres,

657
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: with all the surplus going to the government to be

658
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 2: distributed among white settlers. The surplus is most of the land.

659
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: The Lakota refused the Allotment Act successfully until I think

660
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 2: about nineteen sixteen to World War One. By eighteen eighty nine,

661
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: the government is like, can we please have.

662
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 3: No Well, hang a note about those allotments that I

663
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: think is really important. The acreage given to people is

664
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 3: not always or even I think usually contiguous. Oh shit, really,

665
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 3: so like when you have one hundred and sixty acres,

666
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: it could be like you have ten acres over here

667
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 3: and like four over there, and like it's very far away,

668
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: and like you can't work with that, right, it's not

669
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: practical or even really possible to like use that land

670
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 3: if it's spread out like that. And so that makes

671
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: it easy for that land to be gradually sold off

672
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 3: to white people, because that's really the one of the

673
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: only ways to survive off of it.

674
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: In a lot of contexts, No, that makes sense, and yeah,

675
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: there's a lot of it. This weird thing where like, oh,

676
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: we're going to force you all to be farmers, but

677
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: you also can't be farmers. We actually just wanted to

678
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 2: starve to death.

679
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: We're going to force you to be farmers on shitty,

680
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 3: non arable land that.

681
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: Is non contiguous.

682
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, not where you live.

683
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. By eighteen eighty nine, the government was like, can

684
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 2: we please have nine million of your remaining acres? And

685
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: Red Cloud and Sitting Bowl are like, what each shit?

686
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: Fuck you?

687
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: But since you asked so nicely.

688
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, to quote Sitting Bowl directly, who said a little

689
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: bit more eloquently than the words I just put in

690
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: his mouth. When the white people invaded our Black Hills country,

691
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: our treaty agreements were still in force, but the Great Father,

692
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: the President of the United States, ignored it. Therefore, I

693
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: do not wish to consider any proposition to seed any

694
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: portion of our tribe beholdings to the Great Father, my

695
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: friends and relatives. Let us stand as one family as

696
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: we did before the white people led us astray. And

697
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: so the land didn't sell. So the US was like, oh,

698
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: that's fine.

699
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were like, okay, we respect, we respect your No,

700
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: if there's one thing we know how to do, here

701
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 3: in the United States, it's take no for an answer.

702
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they just took it instead. Once again, they

703
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: ignored the eighteen sixty eight treaty and President Harrison divide

704
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 2: up the reservation into seven smaller reservations with like with

705
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 2: lots of land that's no longer in it at all.

706
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: The Oglalla people were forced onto the Pine Ridge Reservation,

707
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: which is going to be central to the more of

708
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: the story next week. And everyone is forced to abandon

709
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: their language in old ways and send their kids to

710
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,479
Speaker 2: boarding schools. And it's just more fucking genocide. Fewer and fewer.

711
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 3: I'm sure most people listening No, but like boarding schools

712
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: in this context is like, oh yeah, yeah, child sized

713
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 3: concentration camps.

714
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's specifically, this is the this is the

715
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 2: era of what it's always been. This is the era

716
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: of kill the Indian to save the man. This is

717
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 2: the era of like, we will strip away your culture,

718
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: we will send you, we will make sure you never

719
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: learn your language.

720
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: What what organization better to trust your children with? The

721
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 3: Catholic Church.

722
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fewer and fewer folks are able to remain traditionalists

723
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: aka still doing shit the way that they've always done it.

724
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: It's also this division of their land. It's about American

725
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: fucking politics. I Like, the Republicans were losing control over

726
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: the government and they were like, well, what if we

727
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: made some new states, like a couple of Dakota's like

728
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: named after the people were getting rid of, like we

729
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 2: could hold on the power for a little bit longer.

730
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: And over I hadn't even you know.

731
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: That, I know, I like this one came out of

732
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: left field when I when I learned this, because I'm like,

733
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: over all, the Republicans in the nineteenth century are like

734
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 2: usually the the better side, right, Like they're on like

735
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: better has.

736
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 3: Anyone who's ever argued with an idiot Republican knows, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

737
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: But they were also the party of big business and

738
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 2: monopolies and like anti populist, and they were the most

739
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: aggressive against indigenous people because you can't win with an

740
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: American political party.

741
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're bad American political parties. They're uh yeah, yeah.

742
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 3: Any any that are good kind of fizzle out around

743
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: the attempting to get somebody elected to local office.

744
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, point. But you know what is good unreservedly

745
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: and wholeheartedly, I can say products, Yeah, the concept of

746
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 2: stuff love a product the accumulation of stuff.

747
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: You never steered us wrong before.

748
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: I see no reason why it would. Now here you

749
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: go and we're back. So things are looking real bad

750
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: for folks out west. The new reservations aren't big enough

751
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: to support a nomadic hunting lifestyle. The land is really

752
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: shit for crops. The government isn't giving them nearly as

753
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: much food and food and tools as they promised. They're

754
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: just trying to kill them, all right, They're just trying

755
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: to fucking and people are really fucking down and out.

756
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: When a great shaman stepped onto the scene out west

757
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: further west with a new religious practice designed to unite

758
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: the indigenous people, stopping their intertribal and inter nation war,

759
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: designed to usher in a golden era of peace and

760
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 2: reunite people with they're dead loved ones the Ghost Dance

761
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: and the Ghost Dance is complicated and interesting. It is

762
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: almost certainly a product of syncretism, the fusing of Christian

763
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: especially Catholic beliefs, with local practices. The thing that comes

764
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 2: up constantly on the show probably deserves a Bingos square

765
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: right next to the industrial workers of the world. It's,

766
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 2: at the same time entirely indigenous. It does not tie

767
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: into the larger church structure from Europe at all, and

768
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 2: it has developed out of traditional practices, but it takes

769
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: theological concepts from Christianity. There's this northern Paiute guy named

770
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: Wovoka or Jack Wilson when he's dealing with white people,

771
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 2: and he was schooled in Christian theology as a kid,

772
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: but he is at his heart a traditionalist. He's also

773
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 2: renowned for his supernatural powers. Specifically, he can control the

774
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: weather during a solar eclipse. He has a vision and

775
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: has a vision of the resurrection of the dead and

776
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: the departure of white people from North America. All folks

777
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: had to do was live right peacefully by and large,

778
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: and perform a new dance, the ghost Dance. There's more

779
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 2: to it than that. About like in the sort of

780
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: theological framework that is built out of this, the country

781
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 2: would belong to indigenous folks under Wovoka, the other half

782
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: would belong to white people under the president out East.

783
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: Jesus is mentioned, but like all religious stuff, sounds silly

784
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: when you take it out of context. And I believe

785
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: very strongly in judging religions not on their stated set

786
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: of beliefs. But rather what their institutions do and what

787
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: their practitioners do. And the Ghost Dance was a traditionalist

788
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: revival that united various tribes and nations in the hope

789
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: of reversing colonization. So fuck you.

790
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

791
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: It spread across the country, and it helped unify groups

792
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: of groups of people and helped people cope with just

793
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 2: the incredible amount of trauma that they've been living through.

794
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: And it came to the Lacota people and a lot

795
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: of them were into it, especially traditionalists. This was not

796
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: like universal. There are people who are like, some traditionalists

797
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: are like, now, we're not into this, you know, like

798
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: because it is well, it syncratic and it has like

799
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 2: all of these other already.

800
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 3: Say what what group the originator of this was?

801
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: You did say, yeah, roughly you was now northern California.

802
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 2: I believe the US freaks the fuck out over ghost Dance.

803
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: This is like Satanic panic times a million. Yeah, and

804
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 2: the thing that they're freaked out by is a almost

805
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: completely pacifist, heavily Christian influenced movement. You think that the

806
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: US government would be like, oh, this is what we want,

807
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: but they hated it because it threatened to reverse genocide

808
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 2: and cultural erasure because it was traditionalist and it united

809
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: all the indigenous people. You know. Also, and there's like

810
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: some stuff that people talk about how like people say

811
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: that wearing the ghost shirt from the dance makes you

812
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: immune to bullets, and so like that belief or the

813
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 2: b like gets to the white people and they're like, oh, fuck,

814
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 2: they're gonna attack us, you know. And there's some talk

815
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: about this leading to armed resistance against the Americans, but

816
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: most of that talk is coming from the aforementioned Americans.

817
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting.

818
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a resistance movement, but it is a

819
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: peaceful resistance movement, and it is about let's live right,

820
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: you know. Thousands of troops are mobilized and sent to

821
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: like the Lakota specifically, just.

822
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, cartoonishly evil the United States again.

823
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's like all of these there's even some

824
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 2: like id En ended up writing them into the script.

825
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: But there's like occasional like I remember it's the Bureau

826
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: of Indian Affairs at this point, but there's like occasional

827
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: like government people who are part of this and like

828
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: priests and shit, who are like, no, it's fine, they're

829
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: not just leave them alone. It's fine, you know, and

830
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: these are not the voices.

831
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 3: That get listened to, right, the US is like, we

832
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 3: never do that.

833
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. They go to arrest sitting bowl basically

834
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: because he's a traditionalist and he's associated with ghost dancing.

835
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: So they're like, sorry, but we got to take you

836
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: to jail just just to you know, just we're gonna

837
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 2: show up with like a fuck ton of guys and

838
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 2: some machine guns just to take you to jail. Just

839
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: to jail. Don't worry.

840
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: That's the normal way people get arrested, right.

841
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I'm like thinking about the times

842
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: I got arrested. There were a lot of cops when

843
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: I got arrested, but I've.

844
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 3: Been arrested a few times and there were no machine

845
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: guns in any of them.

846
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally, And so oh god, they might have

847
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: been cannon with grape shot. I don't want to like

848
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 2: get my machine.

849
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 3: Anywhere arrest or sitting bulls.

850
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: No, no, I sitting bulls. Yeah no. If they had

851
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 2: cannon and grape shot at my arrest, I uh hop

852
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: back into my time machine and to be all.

853
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: It's gonna say, I'm surprised I haven't heard that story before.

854
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I haven't come out of the time traveler yet.

855
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: Oh no, wait, I was trying to convince everyone I'm

856
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: a vampire has been around for a long time. I'm

857
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 2: gott keep my story straight. I'm going to convince anyone

858
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: of any bullshit plausible.

859
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: All of those those tin type photographs you have of

860
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 3: yourself should uh yeah, should help with that.

861
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly very few people who are born it is.

862
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: Say, one hundred percent believable. Yeah, so unbelievably credible.

863
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: I threw the bomb at Haymarket. That's the rumor I've

864
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 2: been trying to spread. I like it.

865
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 3: That's a good one. I mean you, I mean and

866
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: this is this is more a function of your having

867
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 3: been a cool a cool punk for like a lot

868
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 3: of your life. But like you have enough stories then

869
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 3: it's like a little plausible that Like, wait a second,

870
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 3: is she telling me like three hundred years worth of

871
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: stories of just trying to make it sound like she

872
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 3: had a super wild teens to twenties.

873
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, yeah, Like it's nineteen eighties eight, not seventeen eighties.

874
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: Don't worry, I got it.

875
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: I got to accuse of being a vampire in high school.

876
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: But that's because Twilight was popular, and I was pale.

877
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, and Sparkle was that person hitting on you?

878
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 3: Because I think that's what was happening with Twilight.

879
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: Who knows, certainly not me as a teenager would not

880
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: have known if someone was hitting on me. That's exactly

881
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: my point. I was like, who knows?

882
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 3: I barely tell if somebody's hitting on me right now?

883
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 2: Now enough, all right? So they show up to arrest

884
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: sitting bowl and these are Indian bureau cops, which is

885
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: they are other Indigenous folks who are now working for

886
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: the US government, which is like one of the things

887
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: actually that we had talked about, for example, is that

888
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: one of the reasons, like the British Empire, you know,

889
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: conquered half the fucking world, and they had like a

890
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 2: smaller standing army than like anyone else because they got

891
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: the Indigenous people various places to become their cops, right, right.

892
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: And so when they first show up to arrest sitting Bowl.

893
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of different versions of the story, but

894
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 2: the one that I find most, you know, the one

895
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm telling and the one that feels the most accurate

896
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: to me. They show up to arrest him and he's

897
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: like fine, like fuck it, I'm like fifty six or whatever.

898
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm not looking for trouble. I'll come with you. And

899
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: his son is like what no, fuck that, And then

900
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: the other versions, he's like stalling. He's like, oh, let

901
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: me get my things, which is fine too, Like, don't

902
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: get me wrong, he could resist arrest as much as

903
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: he wants. I don't care. Like I'm pro him, you know.

904
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pro Sitting Bull, and I'm pro resisting arrest

905
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: if that's a decision you're willing to make for yourself.

906
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: Your dad has now told you, the listener, to resist

907
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: arrest because we are not a lawyer, but we are

908
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 2: your lawyer. We're not yours and we're not a lawyer.

909
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 3: But hell, i am your dad the lawyer, and I'm

910
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: here to say yeah.

911
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: So a bunch of his supporters surround the hundred plus

912
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 2: troops who had showed up to arrest Sitting Bull, and

913
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 2: there's like maybe the sun shoots, like blah blah blah

914
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: blah blah. A firefight breaks out. Sitting Bull is shot

915
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 2: by a soldier, supposedly by accident, and he dies in

916
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 2: the ensuing battle. Eight and eight resistors, including Sitting Bull,

917
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 2: die and just because there's no other good place to

918
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: shoe in, shoehorn in this quote by sitting bul that

919
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: I like, I'm going to do it here.

920
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: Every time you've stopped to read a quote, the quote

921
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: has been fucking incredible. So yeah, I'm here for it.

922
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 2: What treaty that the whites have kept has the red

923
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 2: man broken? Not one? What treaty that the white man

924
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 2: ever made with us? Have they kept?

925
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 3: Not one?

926
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 2: When I was a boy, the Sioux owned the world.

927
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 2: The sun rose and said, on their land, and they

928
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: sent ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today?

929
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?

930
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: What white man can say I ever stole his land

931
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: or a penny of his money? Yet they say I

932
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: am a thief? What white woman, however lonely, was ever

933
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 2: captive or insulted by me? Yet they say I am

934
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: a bad Indian? What white man has ever seen me drunk?

935
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: Who has ever come to me hungry and unfed? Left unfed?

936
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 2: Who has ever seen me beat my wife or abuse

937
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: my children? What law have I broken? Is it wrong

938
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: for me to love my own? Is it wicked for

939
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: me because my skin is red? Because I am Lakota

940
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: because I was born where my father died, because I

941
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: would die for my people in my country. And yeah, yeah,

942
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: he didn't steal shit. So ghost dancers wildly impoverished Lakota

943
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 2: folks trying to figure out how to fucking survive. They

944
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: have some guns because they hunt.

945
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: It's the nineteenth century. Everybody has a gun.

946
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know how gun control really exists in

947
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: this country only for marginalized folks. Yes, the US was like,

948
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: oh shit, we can't let have these We can't let

949
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: these people who rely on hunting have guns.

950
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 3: You can't let these people were trying to kill have guns.

951
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So then there's a camp of people on

952
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: the Wounded Knee. It's December twenty ninth, nineteen eighty. It's

953
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: about three hundred people. They're mostly Mini Kanju Lakota, with

954
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: some fugitives from the Hunk Papa Lakota, which is sitting

955
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: both people who fled after his murder. Soldiers show up

956
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 2: and are like, give up your guns, you ghost dancers,

957
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 2: you evil scary ghost dancers and best again, a million

958
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: versions of what's about to happen. They go around and

959
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: they're like and some people are like, yeah, we've got

960
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 2: some guns here, just like some guns. And they're like,

961
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 2: all right, we're searching your shit. And then they like

962
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: search and they find some more guns, and they're like

963
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: mostly just old like shitty honeting rifles and stuff, right,

964
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 2: And so most of the people end up disarmed. And

965
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: there's one man. His name is Black Coyote, and there

966
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: are a couple accounts of who he was. He was

967
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: definitely young, he was probably deaf. He might have been

968
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 2: the deaf mute son of Sitting Bul, but I don't

969
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: believe that that's the case. I believe he was a mute. Sorry,

970
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: I believe he was deaf, but not mute. And I

971
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: don't believe he was the son of Sitting Bowl, just

972
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 2: out of most of the versions of the story do

973
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: not present him that way. But he doesn't know what

974
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: the fuck is happening, and he doesn't speak English as

975
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: far as I canna understand either, and so he's like

976
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: what the fuck is happening, and he's like waving his

977
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: gun around. He's like, you can't have this gun. It

978
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: costs me a lot of fucking money, right, But he's

979
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 2: not saying it English. And the soldiers probably wouldn't have

980
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 2: cared anyway, and they're like, He's like, you gotta give

981
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 2: me money for this gun. You can't just fucking have it.

982
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: You know. There is a struggle where they try to

983
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: take the gun. The gun goes off. I don't believe

984
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: it hits anyone full support if he just also was

985
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: like fuck you and shot them again. Whatever, But all

986
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: accounts say that this was an accidental discharge if it

987
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: was him who fired the first round at all. However

988
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 2: it started, the army opened fire. Sometimes it's called a battle,

989
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 2: sometimes it's not.

990
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: And basically one side is being disarmed, like in the

991
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 3: process of being disarmed. Battle seems like a right, real

992
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 3: that's a real choice to call out a battle.

993
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: The only reason that I sometimes like I have some

994
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: sympathy for it is to be like to not just

995
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,760
Speaker 2: present people as victims.

996
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 3: Totally and like people can fight back, yeah, you know,

997
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 3: and but like still like calling it a battle, Like

998
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 3: does that both sides came equally armed?

999
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so this gets framed as the deadliest mass

1000
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: shooting in US history, And I think that that is

1001
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 2: a reasonable thing to say about it, because it is

1002
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: a mass shooting and is the largest one in US history. Yeah,

1003
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 2: And it's a massacre. I've read one hundred and fifty

1004
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: three and I've heard three hundred Indigenous people were killed.

1005
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: Twenty five US soldiers got got. Most versions agree that

1006
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: most either all over, most of the soldiers died from

1007
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: friendly fire because they didn't like start off in battle lines.

1008
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 2: They just were like shooting, you know, and they were like, ah, whatever,

1009
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 2: and they're just like shooting in the crowd and there's

1010
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: like cannons of grape shot and shit on the fucking hills,

1011
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 2: like shooting into it all and like and then even

1012
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: after the initial whatever, they are chasing people down and

1013
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 2: murdering non combatants and infants and shit in the snows.

1014
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: It's you know, at the end of December, like for

1015
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 2: miles around, they just do. It's bad, really bad. Is

1016
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 2: this a twenty of the soldiers were given the Medal

1017
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 2: of Honor.

1018
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, I think that is a fact

1019
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 3: that I knew at some point. It's just this isn't

1020
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 3: like a real piece of shit country. We got a

1021
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 3: real piece of shit nation. I don't want to say

1022
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,240
Speaker 3: country because I feel like that could mean like the space,

1023
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 3: but nation, the political entity, real piece of shit. And

1024
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think it's as good.

1025
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: No, not not into it. I'm not excited whenever people

1026
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 2: are like, yeah, but you wouldn't be here of one

1027
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 2: for them, Like, okay.

1028
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a

1029
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 3: lot of things, like.

1030
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: Or maybe I would and I just would be fine,

1031
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: or maybe I wouldn't. I don't fucking care whatever, Like.

1032
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,399
Speaker 3: That's a that's a weird argument that brings into question

1033
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: a lot of things about causality that you, as a

1034
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: time traveler, are much better rep to speak on than me.

1035
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Black Elk was also at this and a bullet

1036
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 2: grazed his head, but he survived. There's no justice for it,

1037
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: of course.

1038
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. When when twenty people are being given the medal

1039
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 3: of honor, I doubt that the other people they are

1040
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 3: being prosecuted for their crimes. Yeah.

1041
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: I think later eventually the government like apologized or like

1042
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,720
Speaker 2: one hundred years later, but they still didn't rescind medals

1043
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: of honor. You know, folks suffered badly, and I'm sure.

1044
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 3: There's like elementary goals named after those guys or some shit.

1045
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: Probably I don't fucking know. Oh, it's also it was

1046
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: the seventh Cavalry. It was the same unit that like

1047
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 2: got more or less wiped out in Customers Less Stand

1048
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,919
Speaker 2: and uh and so it was like, this is part

1049
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 2: of why they're like fucking revenging and shit, you know, gotcha.

1050
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to take revenge for that time we

1051
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 3: charged headlong into a thing. No, you know, everybody told

1052
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 3: us not to do and got our asses handed to us.

1053
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 3: We must take revenge, yeah, for our mistake.

1054
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone killed a serial rapist and now we have

1055
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 2: to go murder entire villages of people to prove that

1056
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 2: we're the good guys.

1057
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 3: It's a real, real strong sense of justice at work. Obviously,

1058
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 3: folks suffered badly. People died of tuberculosis, cooped up into

1059
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 3: towns with no amenities. They were forbidden from sweat, lodges,

1060
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: bead work, rituals.

1061
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 2: Of all kinds. Their children were stolen into boarding schools.

1062
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 2: It took until nineteen twenty four for Indigenous Americans to

1063
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 2: get American citizenship. This is, of course, also a trap

1064
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 2: to steal all their remaining land. In nineteen twenty seven,

1065
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: Mount Rushmore was announced by President Coolidge. In nineteen thirty four,

1066
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: the Indian Reorganization Act was passed that gave people the

1067
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 2: right to live in worship traditionally and give the reservations

1068
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 2: a certain amount of self governance. This supposedly nice thing

1069
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 2: also sucked. It was done for bad reasons. To quote

1070
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: the book In the Spirit of Crazy Horse by Peter

1071
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 2: Matheson quote. The traditional forms of tribal government were replaced

1072
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 2: by Indian chartered corporations, complete with constitutions set up for

1073
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: their benefit under the auspices of the Bureau of Indian Affairs,

1074
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: and an intensely democratic people was subjected to the unde

1075
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 2: democratic decisions of so called tribal councils that mostly reflected

1076
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 2: the wishes of the white man's church and state. While

1077
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 2: some tribal councils were and are strong and constructive in

1078
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 2: forwarding the best interests of their people, too many others

1079
00:58:52,560 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 2: became tame puppet governments. For the BIA and the Black

1080
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: Hills is now watched over by four great white heads

1081
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 2: carved into a holy mountain. Those mountains are in turn

1082
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: watched over like.

1083
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 3: A fucking ugly like bullshit like novelty roadside attraction is

1084
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 3: basically what Mount Rushmore is like. That was a not

1085
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: only like a vandalism of a sacred site on landstolen

1086
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 3: through genocide, but just real bad art.

1087
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 2: Yesso, No, just gaudy and it's and yeah, truly fuck it.

1088
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: And those fourheads are in turn watched over by a

1089
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 2: fuck ton of security less people determine that maybe the

1090
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: mountain will look better without them there.

1091
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe maybe a big guillotine. They're on the lookout

1092
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 3: for big guillotines, are there?

1093
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: John fire Lame Dear said, what Mount Rushmore means is quote,

1094
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: it means that these big white faces are telling us. First,

1095
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: we gave you Indians a treat that you could keep

1096
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: these black hills forever as long as the sun would shine,

1097
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 2: in exchange for all the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana. Then

1098
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: we found the gold and took this last piece of

1099
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 2: land because we were stronger, and there were more of

1100
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 2: us and than there were of you, and because we

1101
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: had cannons and gatling guns while you hadn't even progressed

1102
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 2: far enough to make a steel knife. And when you

1103
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: didn't want to leave, we wiped you out, and those

1104
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: of you who survived we put on reservations. And then

1105
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 2: we took the gold out a billion bucks and we

1106
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 2: aren't through yet, And because we like the tourist dollars too,

1107
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 2: we have major sacred black hills into one vast disney Land.

1108
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 2: And after we did all this, we carved up this mountain,

1109
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: the dwelling place of your spirits, and put our four

1110
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 2: gleaming white faces here. We are the conquerors. So completely

1111
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 2: unrelated to that. You see the clip of the Israeli

1112
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 2: media of settlers there saying that they should level the

1113
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: Gaza Strip and turn it into an amusement park.

1114
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 3: What an unrelated and yes and yeah random story.

1115
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like history is important to learn from.

1116
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 2: Yayh well that's part two.

1117
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 3: You're not Yeah that that's part two. Yep, Okay, you're

1118
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 3: gonna You're gonna make me wait a week. Make Usually

1119
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 3: usually when we like do a cliffhanger at the end

1120
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 3: of an episode, it's fake, it's fiction. Yeah, but Martyred

1121
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: is genuinely gonna leave me hanging until next week. I know,

1122
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 3: I know that the listeners are always in that position,

1123
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 3: but like in this case, it affects me.

1124
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 2: I know, you were supposed to be the privileged one

1125
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: and here you are.

1126
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Miriam.

1127
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 2: And if you want a spoiler for it, Dear, dear listener,

1128
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 2: you can go read about Peltier and the support campaign

1129
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: and the campaign to get him freed. He's been in

1130
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 2: prison for almost fifty years and he shouldn't be and

1131
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff that's happening now that also

1132
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 2: I think that people should pay attention to and remember that, Yeah,

1133
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 2: this is I don't know, I don't have a good

1134
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 2: rousing conclusion.

1135
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think like it whether it sounds kind

1136
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 3: of like you're going is to say, like, I don't know,

1137
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 3: maybe I'm putting words in your mouth where I thought

1138
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: you were going. Is like the one of the biggest

1139
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 3: lies of American history about colonization is that like we

1140
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 3: did it and it's done, and like we did do it,

1141
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 3: and it is and it has been done, Like those

1142
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 3: crimes happened and those people are dead and those atrocities

1143
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 3: were committed. But like, colonization is not a static fact.

1144
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 3: It is it is something that can be undone, which

1145
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 3: I think we talked about at the end of the

1146
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 3: episode last week because it's kind of the only thing

1147
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 3: you can say at the end of something like this.

1148
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 2: Totally and then you know it's also worth looking at

1149
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 2: the world at where genocide's also happening and look to

1150
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: see what you can do to talk about it, to

1151
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 2: support people who are fighting it, and to fight it

1152
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 2: because that's just bad.

1153
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we're taking a bold anti genocide stance over here.

1154
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 6: You would think that wouldn't be a bold stand fucking

1155
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 6: non controversial, right, You would think what a weird fighting

1156
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 6: And yet I, I mean, clearly I'm the party most

1157
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 6: affected by all of this, but it's really weird to

1158
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 6: just suddenly be like, wait, I'm used to having like

1159
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 6: kind of wild beliefs that most of the people around

1160
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 6: me don't support.

1161
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 2: But there's some I thought we agreed on, you know,

1162
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 2: like no genocide, collective punishment bad. I thought we all

1163
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 2: knew that.

1164
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 3: I thought we were against bombing hospitals as like a species.

1165
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally, that is what felt like a species

1166
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: wide thing. It should be the exception the people who

1167
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 2: are like that's good anyway, whatever, Yeah.

1168
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 3: Those people we shouldn't hang out with. Yeah, anyway, go

1169
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 3: to m AP dot or dot slash, dot slash. You

1170
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 3: can't add a fuck saying a URL is hard. Medical

1171
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 3: aid for Palestinians. Go there, give them money, yeah, fuck.

1172
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: And support people who are. If you're not doing some

1173
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: of the direct action that's happening where you live, support

1174
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 2: the people who are doing it. Boost voices, and don't

1175
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: let people make this into what it's not about. Don't

1176
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 2: let people either claim that it's antisemitic to fight on

1177
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 2: behalf of Palestinian people. And also don't let actual anti

1178
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 2: Semitic ideas creep into the yeah pople around you.

1179
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 3: Both of those. But you know, if anybody says you're

1180
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 3: being anti Semitic for saying that it's not good to

1181
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 3: bomb hospitals, tell him your dad, Miriam, who is also

1182
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 3: your lawyer, said that they were wrong.

1183
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll see all the area.

1184
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: Miriam is dead dy.

1185
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. You're gonna have You're so glad you're

1186
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 2: not on social You're gonna be so glad you're not

1187
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 2: you're not on Twitter because you just said that you

1188
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 2: didn't know when people were going to hit on you.

1189
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 2: It is so many people would hit on you based

1190
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 2: on this.

1191
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: Miriam is daddy. It is known.

1192
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I made a terrible mistake, not the first, won't

1193
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 3: be the last.

1194
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: All right, see everyone next week.

1195
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: Bye bye, cool people who did cool Stuff is a

1196
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool

1197
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check

1198
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1199
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.