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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is All ball

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Speaker 1: Um All Ball. If this is your first time downloading

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Speaker 1: it and listened to this pod, we do some current

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Speaker 1: state of college basketball stuff. I'll give you some analysis,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you some thoughts, and i'll rant and no

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Speaker 1: break but what I love and I'll just be honest.

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Speaker 1: Like I I love conversations with basketball people. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I feel like they're family. I feel like they're

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Speaker 1: they speak my language. But I also love people's stories.

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Speaker 1: Everyone has a story. And I was I was driving

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Speaker 1: is actually a true story. I was driving to Bowling Green,

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Speaker 1: Kentucky doing a game for Stadium Sports, and I had

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Speaker 1: done one in uh Murphysboro, Tennessee like that night, and

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Speaker 1: then I had one in Bowling Green, West Kentucky the

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Speaker 1: next night. These are the glandless the glamorous life of

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Speaker 1: of Doug gottlieb U a couple of years ago. Probably

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Speaker 1: this is pretty pandemic, I think four years ago. And

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Speaker 1: the rental car I have a I have a like

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Speaker 1: my rental car hack is this I will go from

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Speaker 1: because I have Emerald Isle. I'll go rental car to

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Speaker 1: rental car to rental car with the one with the

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Speaker 1: least possible marks. Who doesn't love a car with new

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Speaker 1: car smell? You know one. I can't drive something that

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Speaker 1: somebody smoked in and too if I can get one

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Speaker 1: with a couple hundred miles or with that new car smell.

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Speaker 1: And here's the other trick is often new cars they

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Speaker 1: get free satellite radio. Now this was before my cheap

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Speaker 1: ass ponied up, so I got the app whatever and

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Speaker 1: the satellite radio. I hadn't listened to Stern in years.

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Speaker 1: And I was driving, and I was a Megan Trainer.

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Speaker 1: Megan Trainer was on was telling her story and it

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Speaker 1: was about he went in to meet to l a read.

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Speaker 1: She was a singer songwriter. She played the ukulele for

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Speaker 1: her songs and she had to learn the entire song. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't it's all about that base. It was

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna like I'm Gonna lose you you know that song?

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Speaker 1: Really cool bluesy tune. Anyway, it was her life story,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, man, I think about so many my

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Speaker 1: friends and their stories and the quirky things that led

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Speaker 1: them to where they are and the lessons they learned

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Speaker 1: along the way, and how great that would be to share,

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Speaker 1: and I mean this is like an audio book. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think we nailed it with this one. I really do,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to give most of the credit. Two

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Speaker 1: Shaka Smart. Shaka is a really interesting human being. He's

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Speaker 1: also a fantastic basketball coach and Marquette really really good.

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Speaker 1: So I want you to picture this in your mind, like,

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Speaker 1: what do you do that morning after maybe your biggest

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Speaker 1: win the season? They just beat Yukon from the sixteen

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Speaker 1: thou people, I played great. He's the toast of the town.

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Speaker 1: We have a set up interview and um parts one

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Speaker 1: and two are an hour, right, we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do part three and four, but we actually haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: to it yet. I'm letting you weigh inside the belt

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Speaker 1: right here. Okay, So part one? Who is Shakra Smart?

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Speaker 1: You probably know parts of the story. You know he's

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Speaker 1: maybe you know he's from the state of Wisconsin. But

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Speaker 1: wait to hear what he does, what he's always done

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Speaker 1: after he loses a game. How did he become a

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Speaker 1: college coach? Wait, before college coach? Why do you go

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Speaker 1: to Kenyon College in Ohio? If he's from Wisconsin, and

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Speaker 1: you need to keep in mind that Wisconsin at the

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Speaker 1: time in which he was coming out in high school.

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Speaker 1: That was the premier they had, you know, Bo Ryan

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Speaker 1: and all the Ryan you uh, this is you know

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Speaker 1: right as in the era which he left and went

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Speaker 1: to u W Milwaukee. But Division three basketball in Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: is outstanding. Why would you go to Ohio? And then

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Speaker 1: how did you get the coaching? And then what what

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Speaker 1: allowed you to climb the ladder so quickly? All right?

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Speaker 1: Part one? Who is Shaka? What's he? What? What? What

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Speaker 1: does he do after losses? What was it like in

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Speaker 1: high school? Why go to Kenyon College? Why get into coaching?

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Speaker 1: It's all in here and in those personal stories where

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Speaker 1: you drive from point A to point B, and so

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Speaker 1: many of you have texted me this is great. It's

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Speaker 1: a must listen for coaches, Teck. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: must listen for people because it's about finding your passion

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Speaker 1: and deciding that you want to do it and understanding

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Speaker 1: how to climb the ladder. Also, his personal life isn't

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Speaker 1: here as well. Here's part one my talk with Chaka Smart,

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Speaker 1: head coach of Marquette. I'm sure you're gonna enjoy it. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I want to kind of I like to do

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Speaker 1: chronological order. I think the brain works best that way, right,

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Speaker 1: But before we do, UM, you guys at the time

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Speaker 1: of this recording, you guys just beat Yukon, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to it. But for you, considering all you've

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Speaker 1: accomplished in your career, right at a young age, taking

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Speaker 1: a team to the final four, obviously the various stops

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Speaker 1: along the way, But when the buzzer is at zero

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Speaker 1: and your team, your style beats Yukon, is there any

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Speaker 1: sort of different feeling now in winning these games at

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Speaker 1: this stop as opposed to previous stops. Ah, that's a

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Speaker 1: great question. I think the great thing about Marquette because

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Speaker 1: there's been so much success here in the past, like um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking about like the seventies UM, and

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Speaker 1: then the weight ruh, and then the great things that

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Speaker 1: Tom Crean and and Buzz Williams did here. There's uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a real real hunger to win games like that. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's also an understanding that we still

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Speaker 1: have some respect to go take. We're not we're not

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Speaker 1: thought of um in the same way that a Yukon is,

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Speaker 1: and and we don't deserve to be yet they've won,

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Speaker 1: um a lot more championships in games in recent memory.

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Speaker 1: But UM, I think the great thing about here is

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Speaker 1: right when you win it just it makes people so

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Speaker 1: happy and most importantly the guys on the team. So

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Speaker 1: that's the best best feeling. I guess maybe that maybe

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Speaker 1: what I was wondering is is there ever a crisis

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Speaker 1: in competence when you're coaching you know? Um, because that's

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Speaker 1: the big thing with with players, as you know, as

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Speaker 1: a corner player, right, it's the it's the guys go

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Speaker 1: through up and downs in confidence, and you gotta coach it.

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Speaker 1: You got understanding everybody's everybody's different, you know, and college

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Speaker 1: basketball has changed and evolved during your time playing it

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Speaker 1: and coaching it. And I just wonder if there was ever,

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Speaker 1: you know, that crisis and competence. Then last night and

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Speaker 1: some of these gigantic wins you had at Marquette, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you flipped this thing. How having a heartbeat? If there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a reinvigoration of you know what I do,

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Speaker 1: know what the hell I'm doing? This stuff does in

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Speaker 1: fact work. It's a great point and it's something that

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Speaker 1: I used to work with a coach veteran coach named

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Speaker 1: Larry Shyatt. Well, I'm sure you crossed paths was at

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Speaker 1: some point, and he would say all the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: coaching confident coach. The confidence of a coach is literally

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Speaker 1: day to day. And that was that was kind of

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Speaker 1: shys perspective. But what he meant was, your confidence is

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Speaker 1: based on the team that you have. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: you can feel like you know the game, you can

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Speaker 1: feel like you you know, you work your butt off

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Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. But the guys that you

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Speaker 1: have out there on the team, if they don't exhibit

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Speaker 1: the qualities culturally, defensively, offensively that you want to be about,

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Speaker 1: then you're not gonna be very confident. And so yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know, for me, this is one of my two

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Speaker 1: most favorite teams that I've coached in fourteen years. My

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Speaker 1: other one was two thousand eleven twelve, the year after

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Speaker 1: we went to the final four at VCU. And what

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Speaker 1: those these two teams have in common is the guys

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Speaker 1: really really really love each other, like truly, and there's

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Speaker 1: also a level of humility, probably for different reasons, um about,

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Speaker 1: hey we better do X, Y and Z to win.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I'll tell you when you don't have confidence

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Speaker 1: as a coach is when you know your guys don't

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Speaker 1: have that humility and you're struggling to put that into them,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna go into a game where they don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily have a full respect for what it's gonna take.

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Speaker 1: What were you like as a high school player? Ah,

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Speaker 1: passer man, You and I, You and I would have

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Speaker 1: got along great, um, because I love to pass my

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Speaker 1: Probably my favorite game as a high school player was

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Speaker 1: a game where I had twenty assists and I think

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Speaker 1: I might have shot like three times. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: love to pass the ball. I love to uh to guard,

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Speaker 1: pick up full court. That's where I got the pressing

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Speaker 1: stuff from my high school coach. Who who's your schol

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Speaker 1: Who's guy named Kevin Baver? You're still coaching in this

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Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin. He's at a different high school now.

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Speaker 1: He's done a school called Middleton High School just outside

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Speaker 1: of Madison, Wisconsin. Um. And he's the one Doug that

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Speaker 1: got me into coaching. Him and my college coach. I

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Speaker 1: never really thought about coaching, but he, uh, he would

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Speaker 1: have me coach at his camps. He would have me coach,

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Speaker 1: you know, youth teams and Uh, it really got me

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Speaker 1: thinking along the lines of coaching. But I was a

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Speaker 1: terrible loser. You probably were too. I know you didn't

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Speaker 1: lose many games, but when I was in high school,

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Speaker 1: if we lost, I didn't talk to anyone for forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours. And I look back on it, like, it's

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Speaker 1: probably not a very mature approach, but I just I

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Speaker 1: didn't handle it very well. I gotta be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, I just I it's like

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Speaker 1: one of those things where like social media has when

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Speaker 1: people cry when they lose made fun of them, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, I love that. If you're so invested now,

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Speaker 1: you can't you know now when I start, you know,

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Speaker 1: coaching kids and coaching teams, Like, hey, you don't have

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Speaker 1: the right to feel bad if you didn't do the

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Speaker 1: work to impair yourself, right, Like, I don't feel bad.

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Speaker 1: Have you missed shots and you didn't you didn't work

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Speaker 1: on your shooting it up, Like, don't feel bad. There's

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Speaker 1: no big deal. Now. If you worked on it, you

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Speaker 1: did everything in your power and you still lost it

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Speaker 1: still to make shots, well, then you can kind of

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Speaker 1: feel bad. So Okay, how good was your high school

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Speaker 1: We were pretty good. We Uh, my senior year, we

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Speaker 1: were upset. Um, you know, we were we were on

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Speaker 1: track to go to the state Final four, which is

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Speaker 1: in Madison, which is really really close to where we

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Speaker 1: lived in Um, that was devastating. That's probably if I

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Speaker 1: could have any game back in my career as a

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Speaker 1: coach or a player, it would probably be that game,

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Speaker 1: or maybe the Butler game in the final four. Okay, wait,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to the Butler game in a second. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So your high school was what Oregon High School? Just

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Speaker 1: outside of me. So how far from medicine is fifteen minutes? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And who did you play? You played as a school

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Speaker 1: called Fort Atkinson and we had beat them twice in

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Speaker 1: the regular season that we're in our conference. It's one

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Speaker 1: of those deals, you know, where you beat a team

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Speaker 1: a couple of times, then you play them a third

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Speaker 1: time in the playoffs and um, they just they outplayed us.

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Speaker 1: We did not play very well. We were a little tight,

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Speaker 1: big crowd. Um, where was the game? Where was the

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Speaker 1: game played? Game was at University Wisconsin Whitewater. So for

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Speaker 1: that time in my life, and uh, you know, for

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Speaker 1: that area, there was a big game. It's probably four

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Speaker 1: thousand people there, and uh, you know, it's it's funny

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Speaker 1: now coaching in these Big East games, or you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was a Texas in the Big twelve, you know,

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Speaker 1: being an assistant in the A SEC, the SEC. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the cool things is just the perspective of

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Speaker 1: you know, you thought certain things were a big deal

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Speaker 1: when you were younger, and now you know, there was

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Speaker 1: sixteen thousand people at the game last night and we're

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Speaker 1: playing Yukon on national TV. So I'll never lose an

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Speaker 1: appreciation for that. You get done playing in high school

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Speaker 1: and you play Kenyan D three, but some of the

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Speaker 1: best D three basketball is in the state of Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: So why go to Ohio? What? What was it? I know,

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Speaker 1: Kames a magnificent school. Was it the academics? Like? What

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Speaker 1: drew you there? No? I mean I was unlike most

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Speaker 1: Division three guys. I was like our guys and and

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Speaker 1: most Division one guy in that I went to Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: I went to the college I went to for one

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Speaker 1: reason because of the coach. You know, I was raised

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Speaker 1: by a single mom um. She raised four of us,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we went through some challenging things during

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Speaker 1: during my childhood so I really wanted to get away.

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Speaker 1: There was no way I was going to go to

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Speaker 1: school anywhere near where I grew up. I learned later

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Speaker 1: in life that wherever you go, you know, there's no utopia,

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Speaker 1: there's no perfect place. There's good people in every area,

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Speaker 1: there's not so good people. UM So I learned that,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was young wanting to get away.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe um was was more about just needing

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Speaker 1: to learn learn about other places. But yeah, I went

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Speaker 1: to Kenyon because of a coach named Bill Brown. He

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Speaker 1: recruited me, uh started my junior year and um, I

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Speaker 1: actually I was accepted to Harvard, Yale, and Brown and

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Speaker 1: and I was kind of lightly recruited by that. I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, I could have gone there and and and

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Speaker 1: been part of the team. As you know, in IVY

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Speaker 1: League there's no scholarships, athletic scholarships. And um I I

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Speaker 1: went and visited those schools, Doug and I was completely intimidated,

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Speaker 1: not about basketball, but by the wealth and prestige and

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Speaker 1: academic credentials of all the kids there. I was from

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Speaker 1: such a kind of a sheltered background from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: of exposure that particularly Harvard going and visiting Harvard, I

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Speaker 1: was like overwhelmed, so I said, no, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: to this little Division three school with coach Brown uh

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Speaker 1: and had a good experience, but then he left after

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Speaker 1: my freshman year, which is one of the worst days

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Speaker 1: of my life. Okay, so, um, how much did you

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Speaker 1: play as a freshman? I started about two thirds of

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Speaker 1: the games, and UM, I we something here with our freshman.

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Speaker 1: Have done it since VCU called Freshman Orientation, and it's

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Speaker 1: a once a week meeting that I have with the

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Speaker 1: freshman and we do it from the time they get

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Speaker 1: here all the way through the end of the season.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that I do it is because I

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Speaker 1: think about how I was as a freshman and how

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Speaker 1: much help I needed in the mental and emotional adjustment. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I really feel like that adjustment is not complete

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Speaker 1: until the season ends. Take a little a few days away,

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Speaker 1: and then you walk back in the gym and you

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Speaker 1: just have this clarity about you and the fog has

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Speaker 1: cleared and you're like, Okay, I can do this. I

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Speaker 1: understand it. Now, let's go. Um. But my freshman year,

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Speaker 1: I played a lot, But looking back on it, man,

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Speaker 1: my confidence level, my understanding of what I didn't know,

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Speaker 1: very very low. Fox Sports Radio as the best sports

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Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows

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Speaker 1: at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live.

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Speaker 1: All this stuff is is so relatable. I mean, like, look,

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Speaker 1: I was different background obviously, right, I'm raising um, Orange, California.

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Speaker 1: My parents were together, but I too wanted to get away.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was my my dad

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Speaker 1: was a little much, right um, but also just the

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Speaker 1: whole l A basketball scene, Like I like U c

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Speaker 1: l A offered me and my brother and my sisters

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Speaker 1: at cheerlier there. We had season tickets there, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I love U c l A basketball, but I truthfully

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Speaker 1: like wanted nothing to do with playing at u c

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Speaker 1: l A just because I just I just didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like the college vibe. But then when I was at

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame, truth be told, I think, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I got in trouble. But the things that you know

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Speaker 1: when you look back and you get kind of get

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Speaker 1: clarity on what went wrong, I too was was intimidated

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Speaker 1: by the wealth and the the intelligence of everybody around me.

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Speaker 1: Like I was sitting in this they have a they

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Speaker 1: have one of course, taught by the president of the university,

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Speaker 1: Monk Mallow's president time. And I got in the course

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Speaker 1: and Sunday nights in the Golden Dome, like literally there's

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Speaker 1: a boardroom in there, and I took a class in there,

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Speaker 1: and there's twelve students because there's twelve councilors they recommend

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Speaker 1: one person and there it's the most diverse group and

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Speaker 1: interesting group of people. But like when you hear and

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Speaker 1: the first class was just everybody kind of telling their

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Speaker 1: story of how and why they got there. Just go

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Speaker 1: like what am I doing here? I do not belong here?

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Speaker 1: And then you factor in. I had a coach who

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Speaker 1: God rest of soul. John McCloud is a magnificent man,

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Speaker 1: right Like he never looked like there was never a

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Speaker 1: wrinkle in his clothing, He was never unshaven, his hair

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Speaker 1: was perfect. Every practice was was like a symphony in

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Speaker 1: terms of like you had to practice plan and that

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Speaker 1: was when we were doing it, and everything was done

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Speaker 1: for a reason. But he didn't do We had one

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Speaker 1: freshman meeting and it was a weird one. He called

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Speaker 1: us in and he drew a he said he first

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Speaker 1: he drew up like a classroom, and you know, he

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Speaker 1: circled the first two rows and you know, this is

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Speaker 1: where we're gonna sit. And then he said, Notre dame,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna reel in the big fish. But there just

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Speaker 1: wasn't a connectivity, you know, and what you're doing for

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Speaker 1: your for your freshman, you're exactly right, because every kid

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Speaker 1: thinks he's got the answers and they all think they're

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Speaker 1: going the NBA. They think they're gonna come in and

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Speaker 1: be one and done and started, if not, I'll just

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Speaker 1: go find the next place. But he didn't. He didn't

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Speaker 1: do it. Whereas coach Sutton, what he would do is

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Speaker 1: you had if you were in still Water, you had

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Speaker 1: to come into the office and see a coach every

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Speaker 1: day and then sign in. If you didn't, there was

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Speaker 1: hell up. It didn't matter like it could be any

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Speaker 1: time during the year. If you're in still Water, that

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Speaker 1: was the rule. You come in, just say hi, make

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Speaker 1: eye contact with a coach. So it wasn't as developmental

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Speaker 1: in terms of relationships is what you're building. But it's

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Speaker 1: still the same idea and I think it's incredibly important.

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Speaker 1: Regards you mentioned hard times. Okay, what's the when you

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Speaker 1: think back, what what what was the most challenging thing

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Speaker 1: you went through going up with with your mom and

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Speaker 1: your siblings. Well, we went through some some different challenges financially, Um,

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Speaker 1: when I was I think it was eight or nine,

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Speaker 1: we moved about half a dozen times in the span

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Speaker 1: of several months. UM, so there were some challenges there.

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Speaker 1: My mom was always kind of struggling to make ends meet.

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget as a young kid. Um, my mom

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Speaker 1: would come home and she would make sure we were

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Speaker 1: good with like something to eat, and then she would

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Speaker 1: go leave again to go teach Lama's classes to you know,

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Speaker 1: pregnant couples. And I remember like just begging her not

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Speaker 1: to leave because I didn't know. I was a mama's

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Speaker 1: boy for sure, and I just wanted to be around her.

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Speaker 1: And I looked back on that and I just didn't

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Speaker 1: have any understanding of probably how I was making her feel,

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Speaker 1: um when I was begging her to stay. But well,

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Speaker 1: you're when you're young, You're not going to have the

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Speaker 1: empathy and understanding of that. And then you know, my

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Speaker 1: my dad is black and my mom is white. Um,

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Speaker 1: So one of the challenges for me was, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of surrounding identity. Um, you know, dealt with

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Speaker 1: some different different issues with race growing up, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of kids do. I'll tell you what was one

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Speaker 1: of the best experiences I've ever had in my life

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Speaker 1: is when I was in eighth grade. I played on

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Speaker 1: my school team which was all white except for me,

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Speaker 1: and then I played at the same time on kind

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Speaker 1: of I guess what people would call now an au

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Speaker 1: team or a club team that was all black at

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Speaker 1: the same time. And and literally we would practice like

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Speaker 1: in the afternoons on Tuesdays with the school team, and

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Speaker 1: then that night I would have a practice with with

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Speaker 1: my other team, the Spartans. And it was such an

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Speaker 1: unbelievable cultural and basketball experience going back and forth from

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Speaker 1: those two teams. How about this, how about this? It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing. So I was one of the first like holdbacks, right,

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Speaker 1: and I hauled back for a reason, like my son

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Speaker 1: is on the same path growth wise like I was.

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Speaker 1: End of eighth grade, I was five tall, I was

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Speaker 1: ninety two pounds or something. And my dad had already

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Speaker 1: had like he was. He graduated high school at seventeen

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Speaker 1: and then grew late, you know, so he was thinking

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing, um, but the year I held

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Speaker 1: back back then AU basketball and everything was all age based,

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Speaker 1: not grade based, and all the kids Miles Simon's with

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Speaker 1: my best friend growing up, but he went to high school.

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Speaker 1: All those kids went to high school. So I had

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Speaker 1: to find a new team. So two days a week

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Speaker 1: I would go and my dad would take me to

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Speaker 1: Sam Miner's house. Sam lived in Compton, and I practiced

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Speaker 1: with the ball that was his team, and then we

388
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Speaker 1: would play in a league at Westchester High School. I

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Speaker 1: was the only white kid in the gym, in the

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Speaker 1: league whatever, And like I think my dad would like

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Speaker 1: and he was, he was all about but he would

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Speaker 1: maybe come to the games, but he basically had take

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Speaker 1: me there and Mr Miner would make me do my homework.

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Speaker 1: I'd have dinner with his family and then we go

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Speaker 1: and we'd have practice and then my dad would come

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Speaker 1: pick me up, and that that was that was how

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Speaker 1: he did it. And so it was unbelievably I opening

398
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Speaker 1: for me on how like here's a a family lived

399
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Speaker 1: thirty min us from where I grew up, but just

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00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: a completely different way of eating, talking, thinking and being.

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Speaker 1: And it was like I drawn it even today, right

402
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Speaker 1: like I I messaged Coach Minor a long time ago,

403
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Speaker 1: was like, don't call me coach. You know, like you're

404
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Speaker 1: a grown man now. Anyway, it's amazing. Okay, So so

405
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: you get done your freshman year. How did you find

406
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: out your coaches lead? I'll never forget. I can kind

407
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: of see it in my mind, like like it was yesterday.

408
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: I was. I had gone home two take care of

409
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Speaker 1: my mom. She had had a hip surgery and she

410
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: my my coach, Coach Brown called me and I picked

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Speaker 1: up the phone, and I could just tell there was

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Speaker 1: something he wanted to tell me because he wasn't his

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Speaker 1: his same kind of jovial self. And uh, I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's up, coach, and he's He explained to me that

415
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: he had taken um another job. He took a job

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Speaker 1: a school called California University of Pennsylvania, which is the

417
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Speaker 1: Division two program, and so he kind of went through this.

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Speaker 1: He was kind of rambling on why he was leaving,

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Speaker 1: as as as I learned later on in life, like

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Speaker 1: it's a hard conversation, um, and so you know, at

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Speaker 1: some point he kind of paused and I said, Coach,

422
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Speaker 1: I'm really really happy for you. This is this seems

423
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Speaker 1: like a great thing for you, and I'll never forget.

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Speaker 1: He used to call everyone budd. He called all the players.

425
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Speaker 1: You would call him bud, he said. He said, yeah, Bud,

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Speaker 1: but it's not good for you. And I remember like

427
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: just hearing the He had an empathy for me. And

428
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: that's one of the things when there's a coaching changes,

429
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: it's it's a little messy, you know, because, um, you

430
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: want to do right by everyone, particularly your players. Um,

431
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: but then there's your family, there's you know, different relationships

432
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: that have changed, and there's there's a lot going on. So, um,

433
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: that was a tough I remember, Doug. I probably cried

434
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 1: for about three days. I'm an emotional guy, so I

435
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: was very, very upset, and you know, thought about transferring

436
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: just to get away because I had gone there just

437
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: because of him. But I had some really good relationships

438
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: in place with teammates and professors and friends on campus.

439
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: So I said, you know what, it's it's it's something

440
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: I started, I should finish it. Um. But I certainly

441
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: missed him for the rest of my career. Who's your coach?

442
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: That So my next coach was really really young. I

443
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: think he came in like twenty six years old, a

444
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: guy by the name of Richard Whitmore, and UM, it

445
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: was just different. You know, he was coming from I

446
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: think an IVY League program, and UM, I think he

447
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: had played in an IVY League program, and it was different.

448
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: I think when you and again I learned this over

449
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: the years, just different stops and assisting of coaches and

450
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: a head coach. When you recruit someone and you developed

451
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: relationship with them before they get there, and and then

452
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, early in their career, and then a new

453
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: coach comes in, necessarily that kid sometimes seems like a

454
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: quote unquote lesser kid, or lower character guy, or not

455
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: quite your guy. UM. In reality, it's just a different

456
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: perspective and it's a different bias. But I never really

457
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: was able to have the same relationship. You know. Coach

458
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: Brown was African American, UM, you know, father figure for me.

459
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: I was one of those guys probably like you, I

460
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: revered coaches, I mean when I played, and I still

461
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: feel this way. I mean, and that's why it's so

462
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: hard for me. The way that UM, the media, I

463
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: guess has changed as it relates to the the way

464
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: that coaches are are talked about. UM. But I looked

465
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: at the coach like he was ten ft tall. And

466
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: if he said, Okay, we're gonna run fifty miles and

467
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: then we're gonna run fifty miles back, I'd be like, Okay,

468
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: I'll try to do it. And it's you know, it

469
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: took me a while to figure out when I got

470
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: into coaching. Most players are not like that. What why why?

471
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: Like again hypothesized for me, like we don't have all

472
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: the answers. I saw this clip I'll send you. It's

473
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: Bill self, is about a decade ago. But he said,

474
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: like it's a societal problem. I agree with you. It's like,

475
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: who do what figure of authority do we speak with

476
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: the proper amount of respect for? We don't want the president.

477
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: We don't with Congress, you know, we we don't with

478
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: you know, commissioners of sports, you know, like anybody in charge.

479
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: We seem to have an issue with authority. And I don't.

480
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't blame kids because kids a reflection of their parents.

481
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: So the parents are our age. Right, it's like my age.

482
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, like I'll push back on authority,

483
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: but like, as a player, the downfall of my career

484
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: and my honest in my shooting is part of it

485
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: is I listened too much to the coach, right, Like

486
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: I I wanted to get the right shot every time.

487
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: I feared sitting on the bench out of understanding and

488
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: respect for the fact that coach, you take it, you

489
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: take a bad shot out, you come buddy, right, And

490
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: that was kind of how I mentally was. But my

491
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: dad was a coach, and you it was. There was

492
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: no questioning, There was no like, this is not this

493
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: is a dictatorship. Okay, there's no question there. But what

494
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: just again hypothesized for me because you're in it. Why

495
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: do you think that we are in that place, especially

496
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: for somebody like yourself, right, because you're not somebody who

497
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: has You're not somebody who excuse my language, motherfucker's kids, right,

498
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: You're not somebody who has any sort of off the

499
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: court issues that would cause them to say, hey, you're

500
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: a phony. You're not. On the other hand, you've dealt

501
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: with this, you've seen it, You've worked with guys Billy

502
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: incredibly successful. But it does feel like there's a change

503
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: media players, parents. Why do you think that is? I

504
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: think the number one reasons money. Um, I think that

505
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: when you and I were your young kids. Um, and

506
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: even the generation before that, you know, coaches didn't make

507
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: a lot of money, and even even professional basketball players.

508
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: You know, if you if you look back at what

509
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: Oscar Robertson made or something like that, it's like a

510
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: ridiculous So with the with the money exponentially changing, Um,

511
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: I think that's complicated a lot of things. I'm one

512
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: of the few people and I'll probably get in trouble

513
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: for saying this. I wish that coach has made less

514
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: but had more security. And I don't know if there's

515
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: a way to do that. No, Listen, I actually agree,

516
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: you know. Like so when I interviewed for Oaklahoma State

517
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: and I interviewed for a couple of other jobs, I

518
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 1: told them, I said, listen, I don't need two million dollars,

519
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, and everybody told me, like that's a mistake,

520
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: because you gotta be viewed at that level. You gotta

521
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: put a price tag otherwise they can get rid of you.

522
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: You know, coaches, a lot of coaches and I don't

523
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: know if you're this way, they put a big number,

524
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: big buy out, you know, not because they want it's

525
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: about making money. It's about like you said, security. They

526
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: can't just make it a big enough number. So you

527
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: can't buy me out if I have a bad year.

528
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: If I have to that way, I can. If I

529
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: have a kid who I don't, I can run the

530
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: kid off, you know, if I have an injury or

531
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: just have a bad year. Right, but I'm with you,

532
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: like dude, a million dollars is plenty of months. And

533
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: again again, scale is all important, you know, extend it

534
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: and put it's for retirement so that you don't have

535
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: to worry about it and not worry about kind of

536
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: the day to day. But you're right, the money thing

537
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: is remember those do you ever get the Sunday newspaper?

538
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: Nobody gets newspaper anymore. But remember the parade magazine that

539
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: would come into Sunday paper. So I I, I, this

540
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: is what I believe. Once a year the parade magazine

541
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: has what people make you know, like the post the

542
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: post office worker makes seventy dollars. You start like kind

543
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: of going through it, and it dramatically changes how you

544
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: view people in those professions. Right the second you hear

545
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: a librarian makes one like I am in the wrong business,

546
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: you view the librarian completely differently. So I I think

547
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: you I think you nailed it, Um with the money. Uh,

548
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: there's there's a skepticism that comes along with it. And

549
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: the reality is like if if you're coaching, if you're

550
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: coaching me, and we're going to try to do something

551
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: really really hard, which is when a championship or even

552
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: you getting me to max out as a player, which

553
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: is really hard. I mean what percentage of guys really

554
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: truly max out and reach their upper limit as a

555
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: basketball player. And so if you're trying to do something hard,

556
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: you don't have room for skepticism doubt. Uh, you know,

557
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: cloudy mind, you better be clay clear. And so I

558
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: just think now there's just so much with social media hate,

559
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: sound like an old guy and all the things around.

560
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: There's just so much that Cloud's minds and the coach

561
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: is no longer revered as a figure um And so

562
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: that's okay, I mean, it is what it is now,

563
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: but sometimes it can affect the ability to create a

564
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: captive audience. I really believe, Doug. Think about the best

565
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: coaches in any sport and the most successful coaches in

566
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: our sport, coach k Dean Smith, John Wooden, Bill Self,

567
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: Billy Donovan. One thing they all have in common, and

568
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: they're all so very different in their methods. They all,

569
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: through different ways, were able to create a captive audience

570
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: amongst their players most importantly, but even the parents of

571
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: their players, and the key constituents that allow you to

572
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: be successful, the athletic director, the president, whoever it may be.

573
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: And and there's always a question, well, the chicken and egg,

574
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: what came first, a success or the captive audience? I

575
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's something that when you look at

576
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: a coach that's struggling, You look at a coach that's struggling,

577
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: and you say, man, he used to be a really

578
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: good coach. But what happened. He's not a good coach anymore.

579
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: You know what happened? His audience is not paying attention

580
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: as much as it once did for a variety of reasons.

581
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: And we could probably name two or three guys off

582
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: the top of our head right now in college basketball

583
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: if all under that category. It's not that they forgot

584
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: how to coach. But there's this deal is complicated. Man,

585
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on around it. I think it's

586
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: an amazing point. I was I was having a conversation

587
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: with somebody today about NBA guys and their success or

588
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: lack thereof sometimes in college basketball. And I said, and

589
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the things, and you can

590
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: relate to this the reason I think that there's so

591
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: many point guards, uh that are outstanding coaches. I mean,

592
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: and like you name the couple of them, right, like

593
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: Billy Patino, Um, like you're I mean, you're like yourself.

594
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: Like go through all of them, Bill Bill self and

595
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: and most honestly, most were not as like Billy Donovan

596
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: was probably you know, one of the best players, and

597
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: he became a great player, but most of them were

598
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: kind of like us, right where Um, you had to

599
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: have that ability to connect people, You had to have

600
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: that ability to lead people. You had to work a

601
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: little harder than other people, probably because of your size,

602
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: right and maybe because you're athletic, ability and all of

603
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: those things helped you in terms of how to lead

604
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: a basketball program. I mean again, think about like John

605
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: Winn was a great player, but he was a point

606
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: guard and the leader, uh and kind of professor Oriole

607
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: but coach k you know, like honestly, Um, I think

608
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: that's it's an interesting dynamic in the relationship of and

609
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: I know that that like big guys always like, hey,

610
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: the people think we don't see the court like because

611
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: you don't, you know. But so there's far fewer that

612
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: are able, that are able to be that relatable, be

613
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: that understandable, and have that alpha the type of leadership.

614
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Um that that's your point out. Now you finished it, Kenyon,

615
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: and then you went and worked for coach Brown at

616
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 1: at California Pennsylvania, right, So he I stayed in touch

617
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: with him after he left, and at some point, I

618
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: think it was my junior year, he said, um, when

619
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: you get done playing, if you want to get into coaching,

620
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: you can come be a g A and be a

621
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: g A for me. And I was a pretty good student,

622
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of professors that wanted me

623
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: to go into this really rigorous post graduate study. I

624
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: remember my advisor wanted me to apply to be a

625
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: Rhodes scholar um. Which is funny. You know, the basketball

626
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: coach from Oxford came to our practice last week and

627
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: he told me that when you go there as a

628
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: Rhodes Scholar, it doesn't matter that you've completed your eligibility

629
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: in the United States. You can play as long as

630
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: you're a university student. Man. If I would have known that,

631
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: I would have tried to go do that. I didn't

632
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: know that at the time. But anyway, so my professors

633
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: were really mad at me when I went to California Pennsylvania, UM,

634
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: because they wanted me to go, you know, do these

635
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: bigtions academically. And it was a no brainer for me

636
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: because and I don't know how this was for you. Um,

637
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: when I when my senior year was coming to an end, uh,

638
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: the season was coming to an end, I literally felt

639
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: like death was approaching. And there was this identity, this strong, strong,

640
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: it was all I had. I mean, I was a

641
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: good student, I had some friends, a girlfriend, but I

642
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: didn't care about anything but basketball, being a basketball player,

643
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: and so the thought of not being a player anymore

644
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: really really messed me up. And I remember I had

645
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: this countdown and we got seven games left in thirty

646
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: two days. You know, my career is gonna be over.

647
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: And it was a real identity crisis for me. So

648
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: going into coaching was like the next best thing. And

649
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: I still say, twenty four years later that coaching is

650
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: a distant second to playing the game. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

651
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean people people ask me like I tell people

652
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: at all the time, Like, do you know I would

653
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: give up everything I have outside of my children, okay,

654
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: to go and maybe one of them, no, okay, aside

655
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: of my children, to go and like one more year

656
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: of eligibility to just go to just to just go play,

657
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: and you know, more specifically to play with those guys.

658
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: That was I I knew I could play beyond college.

659
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: I thought I could play. And you know, I just

660
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: want to play one. I just want to wear one

661
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: NBA jersey, have my name in the back of it.

662
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: Is just one fricking time. That was really all I

663
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: ever dreamed of. Um. But I remember we lost in

664
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: the Elite eight to Billy in Syracuse, and I remember

665
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: it was exactly like it felt like we were at

666
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: a funeral and We're sitting around the locker room and

667
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these guys and I'm just in tears.

668
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: And I wasn't in tears that we lost because we

669
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: didn't play well and they were better than They're probably

670
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: better than us. You know, we didn't have I don't

671
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: think we had a particularly good game plan, but we

672
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: also didn't execute the game plan, and you know, like

673
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: everything that could have gone wrong went long. We thought

674
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: we were gonna play Duke. That's who we wanted to

675
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: play because they had beaten us our sophomore year and

676
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: were they were young and we're just we had we

677
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: had the hammer coming for him, you know. And I

678
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: but I just remember looking at Joe Atkins. It was

679
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: my two guard, Brian Mottnotty Desmond Mason, you know, Fred

680
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: John Seen, Alex Weber, even Glenn Alexander, the one guy

681
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: that like kind of out of our circle now because

682
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: he's done some stupid stuff. I just remember going, like, man,

683
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: it actually kind of the first time I knew what

684
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 1: like real love for another guy was, Like I legitimately

685
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: loved those guys and that time in my life, and

686
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: uh yeah, when it comes to an end, like I'm

687
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: getting goose bumps talking about it because it is such

688
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: a hard reality. And I also think that like again,

689
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: I understand the transfer portal. I transferred, but like people

690
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: don't get what you get out of the relationships when

691
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: you're out of place for three years or more. Like

692
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: you just Doug what you just described in terms of

693
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: the relationship and the just the feeling in that locker room.

694
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: Every guy that goes and plays college basketball should should

695
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: experience that. And obviously not everyone's gonna be able to

696
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 1: play in the lead aid or or or or or

697
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: have a record breaking career. But that isn't that like

698
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: that's the best thing about sports what you just described,

699
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: Like that's why we all plays worked. And again, I

700
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: I accept that members of the media are probably the

701
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: biggest we echo of the wrong sentiments. You know. It's

702
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: like I tell a story all the time that when

703
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: I was in I think it was seventh grade, was

704
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: when Hank Gathers died and I had I had met,

705
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: I had watched them play pick up all the summer before,

706
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: and I had fallen in love with l and U style,

707
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: and I was watching the game when he died, and

708
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: it was a hard one for me because I had

709
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: had a friend when I was twelve dropped dead right

710
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: after a practice, and I had this like fear, like

711
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: at the end of practice, like I could die because

712
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: it happened to both of them. Um and I went

713
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: to the first round game at the Long Beach Arena

714
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 1: and it was the most incredible memorial to a human

715
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: being you've ever Forty four is everywhere, but when both

716
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: Kimball dribbled three times in his right hand switched to

717
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 1: his left hand, and he made the day. He made it.

718
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: It's like it's one thing to do it to honor somebody,

719
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: but to make a left handed free throw and points

720
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: up to the sky and does forty four like everybody's

721
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: in tears. And I just write that. I was like,

722
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: that's what I want. And and I wrote that. My

723
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: my dad had me write down like goals before high school,

724
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: and I basically like, that's all I really wanted. I

725
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: wanted to be a part of that. And the reason

726
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: I coach kids now is and you know, why do

727
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: you why do you want your son to play in college?

728
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: Like I don't care if my son plays at a

729
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: great college. I don't care if you you know, I

730
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: just want I hope I dream of as many kids

731
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: as possible getting that experience where they play for a

732
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: man that they revere and have respect, they play for

733
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: a school that changes their lives and gives them a

734
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: sports and life family, and then you have the relationships

735
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: of going through the You know, I hate running. I

736
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: do not. I don't mind. I can run for days

737
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: in a basketball court. I hate running on the track

738
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget. Like we used to do six

739
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: am running, and we did six am running because my

740
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: first time running at Oaklahoma State, it was August afternoon

741
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: and we had to run to the track and we

742
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: ran and we ran home and then dudes are falling

743
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: out and it's like a hundred and five. So I

744
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: would saw a coach like, coach is a bad idea. Man.

745
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: He's like, well, the only other thing we could do

746
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: with all your schedules run at six am. I was like, done,

747
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: I'll let's do it. I hate it. But like I

748
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: remember to this day, the last time we ran in

749
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: the preseason, we all had breakfast together and we all

750
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: made a pact. We are never even driving by the

751
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: track ever. We're never never running on a track ever again.

752
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: And like again, those things that's what it's really about, right,

753
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: beating Oklahoma and and feeling like you could fly home,

754
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: like to go and watch Sports Center, like even the

755
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: even the losses, like those things, just that the getting

756
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: in a fight with your best friend because you've just

757
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: been around him too much, right, Like, those things are

758
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: things that I dream of more kids getting that opportunity,

759
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: And I wish that there were more people in our

760
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: positions that could convince families that. Look, I know it

761
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 1: sucks right now, I get it, okay, but it sucks

762
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: every freshman in college. It sucks for there's no freshman

763
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: that's like, this is awesome. I'm not homesick, right, every

764
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: It sucks for everybody. But if you just got through that.

765
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: The hard thing, Doug, is what you're describing, uh, families,

766
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: parents and kids. It's hard. It's it's intangible. It's intangible.

767
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: So it's hard to put a value on that, even

768
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: though you and I know it's invaluable, like you, it's

769
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: it's it's beyond whatever dollar amount. You can't put a

770
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: price on that. It's better than that, right, Um, So

771
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: why did you leave? Why did you leave? He went

772
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: to Dayton from there? Right? I went to Dayton? Yeah,

773
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: I was. When I was working at Calpa, I was

774
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: so happy. I would have stayed there forever. Um, but

775
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: my the guy that I had gone to play for,

776
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: and then I went to work for coach Brown, he said,

777
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 1: if you want to ever be in Division one, then

778
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: you got to take an opportunity when it comes. And

779
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: I had worked the Dayton's camp. This is back in

780
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: the old days when you worked camps. You know, I

781
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: just did. I just did one of these with Dusty Man,

782
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: and Dusty was talking about all the camps you worked,

783
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: and again like of the things that are gone now

784
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: he does that, did you know here's a quick aside?

785
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: And again what you tell me when we were pushed

786
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: up against times and stuff so good? I don't know

787
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: if you know this. I almost went to Marquette. I

788
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: didn't know. And and I worked Mike Dean's camp after

789
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 1: committing to Oklahoma State. Wow, yes, because I like Dino

790
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: that much and I like the guys that much and

791
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean and um, I was here at

792
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: that time. Mike Dean was had coach you know what players?

793
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: Oh well, Brian Wortle, Uh, Mike Bargain, Mike, Mike Bargain

794
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: is a great dude. Bart Miller. Um, Aaron Hutchins was

795
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: our best player. So his his whole plan was like, hey,

796
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: Aaron's a two europe poet, Like, bro, we're gonna we're

797
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: gonna be oompa loompas. He's like, don't worry, you guys

798
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: will kill it whatever. And Dino is one of these

799
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: guys that like, again, if you're bothered by it. His

800
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: favorite word as cocksucker, right, bart Sucker, Like he's like

801
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: but in terms of like the love that he turns

802
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: on for you is amazing. Right. So guys that played

803
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: for Mike Dean loved Mike Dean even though he's a

804
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: crazy person. When I visited there, Chris Crawford was there

805
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: and Anthony Anthony Peeper. So I I go into the

806
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: dorms and this is this is a beauty. It was

807
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: in the spring, and I go and visit and I

808
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: go to Crawford Peoper. Crawfords knows Woody because he looked

809
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: like Woody from Cheers. And so I go in. There's

810
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: a couple of beer cans on their table and uh.

811
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, you really, you know, pick the

812
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: place up for me. Huh. And they're like, no, no no,

813
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: you don't understand. That's the pyramid. I was like, it's

814
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: like five beer camps. He was like, by the time

815
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: you leave, it's a pyramid. So I was. I loved,

816
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: Like my visit was great. We went to a Brewers

817
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: game and we had beers with the coaches. And I'm

818
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 1: not really a beer guy. I'm not really a drinker

819
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: at all, but for the weekend I was, so I

820
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: actually came back. So I committed to Oaklahoma State sign

821
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: an Oakahoma State, and Um, when I talked to Mike

822
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: Dean and told him, he's like, I'm pissed. You know

823
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: you should come play for me, not that old funk

824
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: already sudden like, but you want to wear camp. I

825
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: was like, Mike, I just told you I'm going to

826
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: oaklhom and say, I know, come work camp. So I

827
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: went to work camp and your camp no, No, And

828
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: I was kind of I was dating Nicki Colin that

829
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: she was Nicki Tagger at the time. She's the coach

830
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: of Baylor and she was the point guard. So it

831
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: was dating her and I had a great time in

832
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: the camp. It was awesome, and I actually came back. Uh,

833
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: Nicky and I were dating. So I did Christmas that

834
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: year in Platteville, where she grew up. So I was

835
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: around Marquette and then we stayed at night at Marquette.

836
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: Like no, he was awesome. Um, but yeah, the working

837
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: the camp thing is it's another part that's going away.

838
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,879
Speaker 1: And that was all about relationships, right, and that's what happened.

839
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: That's how Bill self got to Kansas. He went and

840
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: worked Larry Brown's camp. Those are gone. So I I

841
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: had worked uh Dayton's camp a couple of times, and

842
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: then so I worked for Oliver Purnell, you remember him

843
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: at Dayton, and he did a really smart thing. When

844
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: he had a job opening, he would have everyone come

845
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: work camp. So it's like ten guys working the camp

846
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: trying to get the job. And it made for a

847
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: good camp because these guys who are working their ass

848
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: off in camp. But then it also was a great

849
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: kind of window into who these people were over the

850
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: course of a five day camp. And so I was

851
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: fortunate to go there and that was my first time

852
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: being in the Division one setting, and it was like

853
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: I was like a kid in a candy store. Man

854
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: Like University of Dayton. I'm sure you've been around it

855
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: some like it's a similar Marquette in terms of just

856
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: unbelievable history of winning and then just a tremendous crowd

857
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: support and fans support and introa basketball. Yeah. My, I

858
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: tell people this all the time. A broadcast a lot

859
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: of nca games. The greatest game I was ever a

860
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: part of got chance of broadcast was the first four

861
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: game that Dayton played in against Boise State because it was.

862
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: It was a Dayton home game, but they weren't the

863
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: home team. It was the most unreal atmosphere. Came down

864
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: to the last second play whatever that they want on

865
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: and then we followed them to the Columbus you know

866
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: for the next next two and they made the Sweet sixteen.

867
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: That's what it was. I mean, I I and I've

868
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: done plenty of dating games, so I have complete respect

869
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: for him and and the understanding where they fit in

870
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: Ohio Division one basketball. But that game, and I know

871
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: they have had other greater successes, but it was it

872
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: was ridiculous. So how did he tell you that you

873
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 1: were the guy? He was tough? I mean, I was

874
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: working at camp and I had no idea where I stood.

875
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: And then he called. You know, he Oliver was very

876
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: very business like, particularly you know, with with with folks

877
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: that are not necessary on his inner circle yet, so

878
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: he just he called me a few days later and

879
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 1: he offered me the job. And man I I thought

880
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: that I was. I was, I had hit the jackpot.

881
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: My my salary was twenty four thousand dollars at Dayton,

882
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: So man, I was. I went from living in a

883
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: place at Calpa that caused a hundred and fifty dollars

884
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: a month to get in an apartment that costs six

885
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: hundred dollars in a month. So I was I was

886
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: big time at that point. Uh what was it? What

887
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: was it? Like? A date? Was unbelievable, just a great

888
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: learning experience and for a young coach, it was it

889
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: was really good. And that I was in charge of

890
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: all the video stuff. So I was literally in this

891
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: video room that was about eight by ten feet. It

892
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: was like a closet for about eight or ten hours

893
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: a day, and my job was to kind of break

894
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: down opponents, breakdown our team, you know, typical video guys stuff.

895
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: I also had the job at the time of recording

896
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: every college basketball game that was on TV around the country,

897
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: and that was a big job at that time because

898
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: you had to set the satellites and set the VCRs,

899
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: and you had to do it multiple times a day

900
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: on the weekends when games started early and went through

901
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: the night. Um, you have to get all the West

902
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: Coast games. But what it did is it just exposed

903
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: me to a ton of basketball. And I can still

904
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: tell you about like all these different teams that I

905
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 1: remember watching, all Jay Wrights, Villanova teams, because we played

906
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: them my two years at dayton Um in his early

907
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: years at Villanova, and it just kind of got me

908
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: interested in Jay, right. So then even when I left

909
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: dayton I continued to follow their team and how he

910
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: played and how they evolved, and that's really helped me

911
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: and coaching that foundation. How did you lead into the act,

912
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: How that took place? Well, Oliver got the Clemson job.

913
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: We were down in New Orleans at the Final Four,

914
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: and I mean, you've been to many final fours. We

915
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: were on Bourbon Street and I was twenty six years

916
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: old and we were in an outdoor bar and somebody

917
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: kind of tapped me on the shoulder and they pointed

918
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: up at the TV screen and it was Sports Center

919
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: and there was a picture of Oliver Purnell with the

920
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: Clemson logo. And that's how I found out that he

921
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 1: had taken the Clemson job. Uh. Like I said, Oliver

922
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: was pretty close to the vest, so he you know,

923
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: he hadn't told a lot of people, and he took

924
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: the job. So I went down there with him. I

925
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: was down there for about five weeks, but I was

926
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: not in an assistant coach position. I was like operations,

927
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 1: and I really wanted to get on the court, and

928
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: so Coach Brown, my college coach, called me and he said,

929
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: if I can get you the job at Akron, would

930
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: you take it? And I said absolutely, And so he

931
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: got me an interview with Dan Hipster, who was a

932
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: head coach at Acron at the time. Awesome guy, and

933
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: it was the easiest interview I've ever done. He said,

934
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: can you recruit? I said, yeah, I think so. I

935
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: can do a good I'll work hard at it. Can

936
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: you work with the guards, Yeah I can. I can

937
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: work with the guards. I played guard. I feel like

938
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: I know position pretty well. Can you do a scouting report?

939
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I did all the video stuff the last

940
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: few years. Uh you know, when I was at Dayton

941
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: and and before. So I definitely can do that. Okay,

942
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: you got the job, and uh so I went to

943
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: to Akron and Akron was definitely the most important coaching

944
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: stop in my whole career because I met my wife

945
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: there and then this isn't why it was the most

946
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: was the most important, but this is an interesting aside.

947
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: My very first day on the job, Keith dan Brod,

948
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: who was an assistant coach who we can't ended up

949
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: becoming a head coach. Later, he said, I want to

950
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: introduce you to someone. I said, great, And we got

951
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: in this car and we drove to this rec center, Jim,

952
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 1: and we're standing in the gym at the rec center.

953
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: It's the middle of the day, so there was no

954
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 1: kids there. They were all in school. And a hummer

955
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: pulls up and out of the hummer walks Lebron James

956
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,919
Speaker 1: and he walks into the rec center and Keith throws

957
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: me the ball and he says, come on, we're gonna

958
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: work out Lebron. And so I was kind of in

959
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: the right place at the right time. I helped Keith

960
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: work out Lebron Jame for about two months in between

961
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: May and July, going into his first season in the NBA.

962
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: That was a lot of fun. It's amazing with here.

963
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: Here's an interesting aside. I got to ESPN. I had

964
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: done games for a year and then went back and

965
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: played in France. The guy who hired me at ESPN

966
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: was a guy named Dan Steer, and so and I would.

967
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: I did local radio for a year in Oklahoma City.

968
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: So I I get back from France and I do it.

969
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm in a mini camp with the Timberwolves and I

970
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: called Dan Steer from the hotel room and I said, Dan,

971
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: Um I would love to do the NBA draft. I'm

972
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: the most repaired guy you can get. He's like, well,

973
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 1: come on, manas like, why would you say that? Well, Um,

974
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 1: I played against Um Darko twice when I was in Israel,

975
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: and he was obviously the number two pick. I played

976
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: against Boris DL Michael Petres like two weeks ago. And

977
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: then my dad's and a you coach, you know, I

978
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: know all the high school guys. And then my brother's

979
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: assistant at San Diego State, we know, and I worked

980
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: for you, so I know all the college guys. He's like, well,

981
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: I can't use you, but maybe radio can. And so

982
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: I actually flew to New York to the NBA Finals

983
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 1: just to meet the guy who's in charge of radio.

984
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: He's like, sure, yeah, fine, Like somebody called me about you. Anyway,

985
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: I was on that draft. But what I remember about

986
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: Lebron James, and obviously now it it makes sense, but

987
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: I remember mellow Chris Boss, who had known because he'd

988
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: come to our games at Oaklahoma State, Joe Johnson, some

989
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: of those guys were all in that draft. I remember

990
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: when Lebron walked in. I've never met him before. He

991
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: was a high school kid. And you know they say

992
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: in basketball sometimes like well that guy sneakers squeak different,

993
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 1: Like he's just different than the rest of people in

994
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: terms of presence. I've never seen anything like it. Like

995
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: here's he was like an eighteen year old kid, incredible,

996
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: from a single parent home in Akron, Ohio. And that

997
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: dude had the type of press. It was like Jesus

998
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: himself walked in and decided, I'm going to talk about

999
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: basketball day. Right, that's a Is that a fair like

1000
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: when he walked into him and obviously had been in

1001
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: the NBA, But there's just a presence about it. Yeah,

1002
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: And and part of it is his mind. He is really, really,

1003
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: really smart, And I don't think he gets enough credit

1004
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: for that because people look at him and they see

1005
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: his physical prowess. But he's one of the most intelligent

1006
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: people I've ever been around in my life. Okay, how

1007
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: did you meet your wife? By the way, you can't

1008
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: bury the lead blind date? Uh, friend of mine who's

1009
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: the chief of staff for the president and introduced me

1010
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: as she actually tried to introduce me to her stepdaughter first. Um,

1011
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: and we never met. Wait wait, so wait, who who's this?

1012
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: Who's who's said at the BLA date? What's your actual name?

1013
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: So this woman is a great close friend of mine.

1014
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: I text her every day, every morning I text her.

1015
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: Her name is Candice Campbell Jackson. She's actually she works

1016
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: for the chancellor of Syracuse University. She's like the chief

1017
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: of staff. UM, really really bright, howard educated woman, and

1018
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: she was at Akron and she wanted to hook me

1019
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: up with somebody, and so she tried with her stepdaughter first.

1020
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: We never ended up meeting because her stepdaughter, I think,

1021
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: moved away, and so her second choice was, uh, my

1022
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: current wife, Maya. And uh I learned, you know, later

1023
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: on in life, that the most important decision that you

1024
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 1: make in your life is who you choose to marry UM,

1025
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: and and that it's just the far reaching effects and

1026
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: consequences of that decision UM are so critical. So you know,

1027
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 1: I was really really lucky to get introduced to her.

1028
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: Where'd you go on the Black Day? We went to

1029
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: a place called Jillian's and Acron and we watched the

1030
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: CALVS game And it was great because Um Maya got

1031
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: kind of an introduction right away and us being together

1032
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: of like just my passion for basketball and just how

1033
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: nutty I am about it, and then it's just kind

1034
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: of always on my mind. That's awesome. She's a keeper,

1035
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: right if on your first on a blind date, she'll

1036
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: watch a basketball game with you, well, I mean, as

1037
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: you know coaches wives, I mean it pretty much gotta

1038
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: be a saint. Yeah, And so it helps so much

1039
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: when there's an understanding of the profession before you get

1040
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: engaged or before you get married. You know what you're

1041
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: getting into. And so she got that definitely on our

1042
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: first date. And moving forward, when when did did get

1043
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: fired or did he leave go somewhere else? He did?

1044
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: He did? It was you know, it was we had

1045
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: a really talented team, but we had a kind of

1046
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: a group of guys that were challenging to manage. Um.

1047
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean we we as a staff were

1048
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: let go for you know, I'll never forget. We lost

1049
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: in the conference tournament. Um, and you know, kind of

1050
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: got the news from coach hip that that the A

1051
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: D had made the change. And so one of the

1052
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: things in this profession that's really odd and unique is

1053
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: that like when there's a coaching change and you're on

1054
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: a staff you don't really know what to do, like

1055
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: you just you know, it's like, hey, what do you know?

1056
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: You make some calls and you know, so we're all

1057
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: sitting in the office and Keith Danbrock came in my

1058
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,919
Speaker 1: office and he said, the A D. The A d's

1059
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: name is Mike Thomas. He wants to see you. And

1060
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: so I went up to Mike Thomas's office. And again

1061
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: this is just hours after you know, finding out that um,

1062
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, coach Hipp had got let go. And he

1063
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: said to me, D D said how are you doing? Shocker?

1064
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: And I felt like saying, well, not very good man

1065
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: like yeah, like this is not a good day. But um,

1066
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 1: I was like I'm okay, I'm fine. And then he said,

1067
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: well listen, um, We're gonna have a press conference tomorrow

1068
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna name Keith the head coach, and I

1069
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: would like for you to stay. And so it was

1070
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: kind of the shortest window probably in coaching, of of

1071
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: not having a job. I guess technically I always had

1072
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: a job, but um, it was it was a unique thing.

1073
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: And then Keith did an unbelievable job at Akron. I mean,

1074
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: he he didn't get as much credit for national as

1075
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: you should have. But at one point there was like

1076
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: a list of six schools that had won twenty two,

1077
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: twenty three games in the season for I'm teen years

1078
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: in a row, and it was like all the heavyweights

1079
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: and acron what allowed him to be successful, unbelievable. You

1080
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: know you talked about UM coach Sutting Sutton having the

1081
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: players come by the office. Keith is the best I've

1082
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: ever been around at spending time with the players and

1083
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: making sure that the staff did the same thing. And

1084
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: he used to have us do this thing. I hated.

1085
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: I hated this. After every practice the whole staff had

1086
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: to go into the locker room and just hang out

1087
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: for ten to fifteen minutes. And I'm one of those

1088
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: type of guys, like I want to go do the

1089
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 1: next thing, Like I got recruiting calls in it, I

1090
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: got I gotta work on a scouting report, you know.

1091
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: I but it was ingenious, one of the best things

1092
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: in retrospect ever, because Keith was really hard on those guys.

1093
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: In practice. There was definitely some choice words spoken throughout

1094
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: the three and a half hours of practice, but that

1095
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: time spent in the locker room with those guys afterward

1096
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: It really repaired relationships and it basically got us back

1097
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: to like even in terms of like everything's okay, and

1098
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: now they can come back in tomorrow and we can

1099
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: do it all again. But if we hadn't spent that time,

1100
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: he hadn't made us do that, it would have it

1101
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: would a snowbolt. S Yeah, it would a snowbolt. Um,

1102
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: how did you guys play style wise? How did you play? Well?

1103
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 1: I mean we Keith did a great job because we

1104
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: didn't have the greatest roster um his first couple of years,

1105
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: so we played kind of however. You know, however, we

1106
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: needed to. Like our first year, his first years a

1107
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: head coach, we had a five five point guard, so

1108
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: you know we pressured. He pressured the ball and tried

1109
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: to be aggressive, and you know we mixed in some pressing. Um.

1110
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: Keith is a great offensive coach. He actually meeting potatoes.

1111
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: And I know this is gonna sound crazy because I

1112
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: worked for Billy Um, but just the meeting potatoes of basketball,

1113
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: like x ando, basketball coaching the game of basketball, not psychology, No,

1114
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: not any of that. He's the best coach I've been around. Uh,

1115
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: really really good. Why did you and pet my wife? Uh?

1116
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: One of many times you're married that you're married at

1117
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: that time. We're engaged at the time. Can't can't get

1118
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 1: away without telling me how you asked me. I messed

1119
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: that up. Man. We went on vacation, um, and we

1120
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: we we were just you know, we've been together for

1121
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: about six months and we were talking about the future,

1122
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 1: and uh it was basically like, hey, you know, we

1123
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: could get married, and she's like, yeah, we could, and

1124
01:04:56,360 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm like okay, and uh she said okay. Net year

1125
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: and then that was how we got engaged. So it

1126
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: wasn't really, uh, any type of romantic proposal. That's the

1127
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: greatest kind of commitment. It's like when you're having you're

1128
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: having a recruiting called like all right, I'm coming, that's it,

1129
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: you know. And then I I made the most rookie

1130
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: novice mistake of all time. I'm sure you've heard of

1131
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 1: people doing this. We went to the jewelry store together

1132
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: to buy a ring, and the guy completely his eyes

1133
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:32,760
Speaker 1: just lit up when he saw us because he knew

1134
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: he was gonna get us. So I basically I spent

1135
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: my life savings. I didn't have much money at that time. UM,

1136
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:44,439
Speaker 1: I spent every dime I had on that ring, so

1137
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: at least we're still together. But yeah, my, Um, I

1138
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: could have stated acting forever. I loved it there. I

1139
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: mean I love living there. Um. I love Keith, probably

1140
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: the closest guy that I've been. He's the closest I've

1141
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: been with any I that I've worked with. Um. But

1142
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: Ma is like, what are you talking about? Like, it's

1143
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: an A C C job and you if you want

1144
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: to become a head coach, like, and you have to

1145
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: make that move. And plus you know Oliver and you

1146
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,320
Speaker 1: love him and so it's not like you're going somewhere blind. Um.

1147
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 1: So she went out like she normally does, and we

1148
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 1: went down to the Clemson. I was there for two

1149
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: years and I loved it down there. Okay, so now

1150
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: you know we still have to get to working for

1151
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: all of Pernell. How do you get to Florida? How

1152
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 1: do you get the VCU job? So much other great stuff.

1153
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: I make few promises for you, but I can promise

1154
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: you that Part two as good or better than Part one,

1155
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: and it will you be it will leave you yearning

1156
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: for part three in part four. Anyway, my my, my

1157
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: sincere thanks to Shaka Um. He was incredibly gracious with

1158
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: his time and with how open he has been in

1159
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: our really a conversation. Um yeah, this is one to

1160
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: definitely send to your friends. It's a good one anyway.

1161
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,959
Speaker 1: A reminder, The Doug Gotlip Show is daily daily three

1162
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: to five Eastern Time, twelve to two Pacific. We have

1163
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 1: the ind the Bonus podcast just like an hour almost

1164
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: like a radio show, and self podcasts. You download that

1165
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: in the meantime to tweet this thing out. Don't be

1166
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: afraid to subscribe, rate, review, tweet, retweet, put it on Facebook,

1167
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: send it to a friend because it's incredible stuff in

1168
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 1: terms of his path, and so many of you listen

1169
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: and you're either on your own path or you want

1170
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: to start showing path, or you've had your own path

1171
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: and you're fascinated by others, especially guys interesting in shock. Alright,

1172
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: stay tuned from bar two. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is

1173
01:07:52,680 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: all ball