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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson. We talked about missus Patrick Campbell

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Speaker 1: this week, and I have always found her really interesting

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Speaker 1: because she is one of those one of those famous

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Speaker 1: people who because she wrote her own memoir and obviously

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Speaker 1: that's very slanted in her favor and written later in

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Speaker 1: her life, so you have to question some of the recollections.

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Speaker 1: We have so much more insight into really her thinking

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Speaker 1: about celebrity than we do other people. But I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to talk about those George Bernard Shaw letters because

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Speaker 1: I mean, some of them were so ardent and romantic

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Speaker 1: that like he didn't want any of them published, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of them, despite her having included some of them,

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Speaker 1: most of them didn't get published until after they were

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Speaker 1: both dead. But like it's very funny. I'm not laughing

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Speaker 1: at them. I'm just laughing at how intense this relationship

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Speaker 1: was and how unique there dynamic was. Like in one

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Speaker 1: he writes, shut your ears tight against this blarneying, irish

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Speaker 1: liar and actor. Read no more of his letters. He

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Speaker 1: will fill his fountain pen with your heart's blood and

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Speaker 1: sell your most sacred emotions on the stage. He is

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Speaker 1: a massive imagination with no heart. But that's well, okay,

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Speaker 1: it's intense. There are a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: intense ones. There is this other thing that I think

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Speaker 1: is interesting where you know, we read that theater review

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Speaker 1: about Lady Churchill writing her play and him being like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: all of the all of the lay write Place now.

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Speaker 1: But kind of it seems like everyone wrote a play

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Speaker 1: like everyone thought they had to play in them, right.

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Speaker 1: She encouraged George Cornwallis Wes to write Place after his bankruptcy,

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Speaker 1: which happened shortly after they were married, and she produced

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Speaker 1: one of them in nineteen seventeen. We mentioned her son

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Speaker 1: started writing plays like everybody was writing Place, which is

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Speaker 1: interesting to me, That's all. But I wanted to really

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Speaker 1: really talk about one of her fan letters, okay, because

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Speaker 1: she does include a lot of these in her memoir

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Speaker 1: and this one is one of those ones where it's

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Speaker 1: like two familiar where it's basically like an audience member

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Speaker 1: who feels he needs to write her for not dressing

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Speaker 1: pretty enough. Oh no, oh, no, okay, And this was

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Speaker 1: in a play where she was playing George Sand, who

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Speaker 1: famously warman's clothing. MM and this letter reads, my dear

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Speaker 1: missus Campbell, I am so sorry if I was rude

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Speaker 1: about your trousers, but quite sincerely, they wounded me if

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Speaker 1: only they had been pretty trousers, but they were not.

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Speaker 1: They may be historically correct, but in a play which

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Speaker 1: outrages history on so many vital points, to outrage it

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Speaker 1: further in the stuff and cut of George Sand's trousers

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Speaker 1: would have offended nobody and pleased one person at least.

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Speaker 1: I glared, oh see, who is a woman he was with,

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Speaker 1: glared so formidably at me when you complained of my

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Speaker 1: criticisms that I did not dare to ask her how

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Speaker 1: she'd like to wear trousers like that. I don't think

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Speaker 1: she would look very nice, do you? Affectionately yours, Rudolph Bessie.

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Speaker 1: And then he includes the ps, I hadn't really time

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Speaker 1: to tell you that your performance it was pure genius,

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Speaker 1: like everything you do. So he had gone to the play,

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Speaker 1: had spoken with her after it and said she looked awful,

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Speaker 1: and then wrote this letter to her. But does this

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Speaker 1: not feel like every criticism that women get in media,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you suck and you did this so wrong.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I love your work. Like it's the

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Speaker 1: whole time you were reading it, I was like, in

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Speaker 1: my head, the invention of things like the Internet and

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Speaker 1: email and social media has made it so much easier

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Speaker 1: for people to just directly contact whoever with those kinds

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Speaker 1: of comments, and so the whole time you were reading it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, he did it on paper too.

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Speaker 1: I knew this in my head, but like everything that,

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Speaker 1: I was just so so like so many emails, et cetera. Right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, everyone that makes stuff online has gotten a

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Speaker 1: letter like this about how terrible they are. But also

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Speaker 1: I love your work, which is hilarious to me. Like

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Speaker 1: I feel like because I have not even related to

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Speaker 1: anything I've done or made, but I have certainly engaged

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Speaker 1: with people who are criticizing others in this weird way.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, but why is that where you open

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Speaker 1: and it's like they don't see that there's anything wrong

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Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, yeah, where they're like, well, they need

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Speaker 1: to know how people feel. Everybody needs feedback, and it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you had to say something, you could put it

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Speaker 1: in so much better A way than to be like,

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Speaker 1: those trousers wounded me, right, they wounded him. He introduced

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Speaker 1: himself to someone who's work he reportedly admired by saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't like your pants like they wounded him, Tracy.

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Speaker 1: They hurt him to see pants that he enjoyed on

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Speaker 1: a woman. Yeah, wounded. Yeah. I probably cackled over this

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Speaker 1: letter for twenty twenty five minutes because it was just like, well,

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Speaker 1: there we go. Yeah. I think that was nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 1: One hundred years later, same letter could be written, except

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be about vocal fry. No, no, not even

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Speaker 1: a little. There is a cool thing to jump off

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Speaker 1: of that. Sorry if anyone feels like I'm banging the

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Speaker 1: drum there. If anyone is familiar with the painter Philip

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Speaker 1: Burne Jones, which you may be without knowing his name,

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Speaker 1: he did a lot of really really sort of striking

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Speaker 1: Gothic y paintings and some beautiful portraits in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundred. But one of them

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Speaker 1: is actually a painting of Missus Campbell. Because if I

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Speaker 1: describe this painting to you from eighteen ninety seven, you'll

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Speaker 1: probably have a vague reminiscence of it. It's called the Vamp.

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Speaker 1: It's in eighteen ninety seven painting. As I said, it's

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Speaker 1: in I think it's actually a charcoal piece, and it

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Speaker 1: is a woman with long black hair kind of leaned

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Speaker 1: over a man who is lying apparently like deceased, on

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Speaker 1: the bed, and it's very beautiful. You would see it

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, yes, I've seen that before, and

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Speaker 1: she was the model for that, which I sort of

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Speaker 1: love because then it's like, oh, we don't maybe always

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Speaker 1: remember her, but she definitely is part of the yeah,

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Speaker 1: the spirit of art. I googled it in our sense

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Speaker 1: of Gothic art in particular, which I really really enjoy,

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Speaker 1: because that's one of those pieces that shows up, like

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Speaker 1: I think it's used his book covers for some Gothic novels.

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Speaker 1: It certainly shows up in a lot of films and

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Speaker 1: in print because it is like a shorthand of like

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Speaker 1: this idea of the woman who is dangerous and going

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Speaker 1: to hurt a man, probably because she wore pants that

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Speaker 1: he didn't like. He just expired. I'm never gonna let

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Speaker 1: that go. But anyway, I love that painting, and so

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Speaker 1: I did not realize until I was doing this research

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Speaker 1: that she had been the model for it. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is missus pat and her. I mean, she had such

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Speaker 1: a big life and so much fame for a while

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Speaker 1: that I almost feel guilty that my fixation has become

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Speaker 1: about her pants getting criticized by a dude. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time that cracked me up. Cracked me up

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Speaker 1: the great equalizer. Random people will tell you you dressed wrong,

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Speaker 1: and you hurt them by not being cute enough. We

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Speaker 1: talked about a Philip Randolph on the show this week.

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Speaker 1: Something that struck me while I was working on this

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Speaker 1: was a lot of like basic general audience kind of

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Speaker 1: write ups about a Philip Randolph talk about him primarily

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Speaker 1: in the context of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Borders,

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Speaker 1: which is huge, important part of his whole career and

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Speaker 1: his legacy and all of that. He was also a

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Speaker 1: major major figure in the planning of the March on

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Speaker 1: Washington for Jobs and Freedom, and it just you know,

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Speaker 1: my experience going through public school in the United States,

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Speaker 1: the March on Washington is like one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: focus materials in like classes about the Civil Rights movement,

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Speaker 1: or like US history classes when it's Black History Month

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Speaker 1: or whatever, right, Right. So it just just to me

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Speaker 1: that for a Philip Randolph specifically, like the Brotherhood of

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Speaker 1: Sleeping car Porters, gets like so much of the attention,

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Speaker 1: when this other thing that he was also physically involved

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Speaker 1: in that gets way more attention in just basic conversations.

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Speaker 1: And I think some of that is probably because the

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Speaker 1: Martin Luther King juniors I have a dream speech has

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Speaker 1: become for a lot of people inaccurately emblematic of everything

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Speaker 1: about Martin Luther King Jr. And everything about the civil

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Speaker 1: rights movement, like that has taken an outsized role in

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Speaker 1: people's understanding of things, And I just I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just kept thinking about that as I was working

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Speaker 1: on this episode, about how, like where so much of

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Speaker 1: the focus has been relative to all of that, Right.

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Speaker 1: I had a chuckle to myself. That was just a

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Speaker 1: nice walk down memory lane while we read this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because do you know how I learned about Marcus Garvey

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Speaker 1: for the first time? No, the Tender Age of thirteen. No,

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Speaker 1: In William Gibson's Neuromancer. Okay, did you read that book? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: But uh, I would say a lot of it is

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Speaker 1: not retained in my memory. Oh I read it almost

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Speaker 1: once a year. No, you love it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: And I found it by accident when I was looking

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Speaker 1: for work by the other William Gibson who wrote The

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Speaker 1: Miracle Worker. So that was a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: shock to my tiny mind. But there is a space

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Speaker 1: tug in Neuromancer called the Marcus Garvey and they I

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't understand this reference at all, and

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Speaker 1: so I went and looked it up in the library.

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Speaker 1: And I remember my elementary I think I was either

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Speaker 1: I was on that cusp in my school system. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember if I was last year of elementary school

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Speaker 1: or first year of middle school. And I remember the

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Speaker 1: library and though being like, why are you looking this up?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't understand what's going on

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Speaker 1: in this book. We have an episode on Marcus Garvey

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Speaker 1: way back in the in the archive from prior host.

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Speaker 1: I have never listened to it. I cannot tell you

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Speaker 1: anything about like that episode or how comprehensive or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, but that episode does exist. We also, as

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Speaker 1: we said in this episode, have a two parter on

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Speaker 1: Buyered rest in I wrote that one, but I also

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Speaker 1: wrote it back in something like twenty fourteen or twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen or something like that. I have not re listened

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Speaker 1: to that episode in recent years, like having buyered Resting

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Speaker 1: come up multiple times in this episode, I'm like, should

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Speaker 1: we use this as a Saturday Classic? I haven't re

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Speaker 1: listened to it, so, I you know, sometimes things don't

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Speaker 1: age as well as we would like them to for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, So I haven't really listened to it. But

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Speaker 1: then also, it's a little weird to run two parts

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Speaker 1: as Saturday Classics. Yeah, it's always tricky unless we do

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Speaker 1: one big, giant one, which would be we weird. There

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Speaker 1: have been times from when our show tended to be,

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Speaker 1: like when episodes tended to be between twenty and thirty minutes.

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Speaker 1: If we had two episodes that were closer to twenty

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Speaker 1: we might just like run them as one, but those

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Speaker 1: ones are not. Those ones are I think fully half

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Speaker 1: an hour each and then getting into like an hour

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Speaker 1: or more long episode can be a tricky. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: our next open slots for classics are in in June.

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Speaker 1: We'll see, I'll re listen to him, probably make a

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Speaker 1: decision on whether we run that. I do love byed

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Speaker 1: Rest and he's one of my most favorite figures from history. Also,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk somewhere that Byar dressed in quote

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Speaker 1: at a birthday party for a Philip Randolph, when he

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Speaker 1: was talking about how other than his grandparents, nobody but

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Speaker 1: mister Randolph had stood by him in times of trial

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Speaker 1: apparently his whole life. Byed rest in all always thought

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Speaker 1: of a Philip Randolph as mister Randolph, like even when

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Speaker 1: they were like both adult, solidly long foundation in their

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Speaker 1: work and their activism, Like he was always mister Randolph

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Speaker 1: to him. But he also in that quote said he

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Speaker 1: is the only man I know who is who has

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Speaker 1: never said an unkind word about anyone or who refuses

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Speaker 1: to listen to an unkind word about anyone, even though

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Speaker 1: it may be true. And I love that quote, but

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Speaker 1: a Philip Randolph could also be really critical of people

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Speaker 1: that he disagreed with. And so you know, Byron Rested

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Speaker 1: is not here for me to ask, like, are you

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Speaker 1: drawing a distinction between criticizing someone and being unkind about that? Right?

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Speaker 1: We're getting into the semantics about what unkind words are. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I was like, at first I was just going

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Speaker 1: to put that whole quote into the episode, and then

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Speaker 1: I was like, I, uh, I have thoughts about that,

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Speaker 1: because there are definitely other A Philip Randolph quotes about

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Speaker 1: people that you know, a lot of times he had

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Speaker 1: very justifiable criticisms of where I would not necessarily call

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Speaker 1: that a kind comment that he made, right. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if anybody has written a biography of his wife.

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Speaker 1: As we said in the episode, like Lucille was a

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Speaker 1: critical part of his work. He could not have done

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Speaker 1: it all without her. I am intrigued by her and

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Speaker 1: would like to know more about her, and I don't

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Speaker 1: offhand know if there is more publicly documented about her

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Speaker 1: to know you can do an episode that's a two

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Speaker 1: separate stories where you can do one on her and

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Speaker 1: one on Alilia Walker Lily Walker, and then will it'll

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Speaker 1: just be like cool women that seem to keep coming up.

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Speaker 1: So one quote that I found about Lucille, so they

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Speaker 1: they apparently like really loved each other, were really devoted

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Speaker 1: to each other, supported one another's professional and and you know,

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Speaker 1: actism goals all of that. A Philip Randolph was away

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Speaker 1: from home a lot by nature of his job. He

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Speaker 1: was traveling to places to organize and demonstrate. He had

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Speaker 1: international trips that we did not even bring up in

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Speaker 1: this episode, like there was a lot he was off

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Speaker 1: and away, and at one point someone asked Lucille how

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Speaker 1: she felt about like women because like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's an attractive man, Like what do you think about

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Speaker 1: like the idea that you're not around and there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there might be women around. And she said, let them try.

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Speaker 1: I said that just as Holly took a swallow of yeah,

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Speaker 1: you just heard me snort diet coke. I love him.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, so I love that too. Uh So, anyway, anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad we finally got to a Philip Randolph. I'm

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Speaker 1: also glad. Something that people comments about him a lot

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Speaker 1: is the way that he spoke. It was very distinctive,

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Speaker 1: and people described it as oratorial or almost Shakespearean or

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Speaker 1: like terms like that, because like if you if you

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Speaker 1: listen to a recording of him talking, it's very very

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Speaker 1: precise and like a very formal way of talking. And

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Speaker 1: I got to the part about him loving Shakespeare and

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Speaker 1: establishing a Shakespeare Society, and I was like, well, that

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Speaker 1: explains some things about you know, who knows what's the

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Speaker 1: cause and what's the effect. But it seems like most

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Speaker 1: likely his like distinctive manner of speech and love of

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare went hand in hand perfection. Yeah, I love it,

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Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. I also love train travel. So

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Speaker 1: having recently discovered that there is a train that I

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Speaker 1: can take from back Bay out like Westward, which I

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Speaker 1: think might be a new service on Amtrak, I got

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Speaker 1: the impression while I was on my trip that the

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Speaker 1: stop that I got off at was not a stop

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Speaker 1: that was being served for a long time. So I've

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Speaker 1: taken trains north and south out of Boston a bunch

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Speaker 1: of times. My first time going Westward, had a great time.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome. I haven't done a train trip. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: might be one of those people that a train trip

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Speaker 1: would make a little bit antsy. Maybe I'm not a

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Speaker 1: journey it's not the destination, it's the journey kind of person.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, get me where I'm going. So my very

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Speaker 1: first Amtrak trip was when I was a kid, and

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Speaker 1: it has to have been on Amtrak because of when

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Speaker 1: I am alive. But my grandmother and I took Amtrak

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Speaker 1: to Raleigh from Greensboro, North Carolina, and I only very

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Speaker 1: vaguely remember this trip, but for many years I could

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Speaker 1: not get on an airplane because of my visceral terror.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Kind of a long story. But we were

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Speaker 1: owned by Discovery Channel and our offices were in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: and Discovery Channel offices were in Silver Spring, Maryland, and

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Speaker 1: so I took Amtrak from Atlanta to d C multiple

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Speaker 1: times until I started working on my fear of flying.

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Speaker 1: And I would say that was not my favorite, just

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Speaker 1: because that train left Atlanta at eight pm and it

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Speaker 1: arrived in DC at eight am, and when you went

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Speaker 1: home it was the reverse and sleeping and coach on Amtrak,

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Speaker 1: I would say, is just logistically not a very comfortable experience, right,

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like I would say, maybe more comfortable

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Speaker 1: than being on a red eye flight, but still like

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Speaker 1: you're in a you're in a seat overnight trying to

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Speaker 1: sleep is like not, It's not gonna be comfortable for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. My vacation trip, however, I got

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Speaker 1: myself a little sleeper car, which I had a great time.

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Speaker 1: In my little sleeper car, I had my own little

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Speaker 1: door that closed, my own little window I could look

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Speaker 1: out of. Uh, my own little space was great and

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Speaker 1: I had a pretty view the whole time. It was awesome.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I love trains overnight on the train not

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Speaker 1: as much, but I've taken a bunch of trips on

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Speaker 1: the down Easter and the Acela Express out of Boston,

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Speaker 1: and now this one, which was on the Lake Shore Limited. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's now you all know more about the am track

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Speaker 1: trains running out of Boston than maybe you did before.

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Speaker 1: Like the second service, you didn't know you would get

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Speaker 1: out of stuff you missed History Class. Tracy will read

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Speaker 1: you train schedule Tracy's trail train travel. Uh. There is

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Speaker 1: a TikTok figure called Jed who makes recordings of train trips.

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Speaker 1: And I just reminded myself that anyway, Happy Friday. Whatever's

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Speaker 1: coming on your weekend, I hope it is great. If

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Speaker 1: you're gonna take a train trip somewhere, I hope your

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Speaker 1: train is on time and comfortable and clean. If you're

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Speaker 1: not taking a trip anywhere, I hope whatever's on your

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Speaker 1: plate at home is going okay. We will be back

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Speaker 1: with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and with something brand new

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Speaker 1: on Monday. Stuff you missed in History Class is a

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows,