WEBVTT - Anti-War Movements feat. Andrew 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:07.800 All the media, Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.400 I'm Andrew Siege as soon as andrewism on YouTube, and 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.640 I'm here with it's James, And honestly I shouldn't see 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.759 welcome to it could happen. Yeah, I should really see 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.759 welcome to it is happening here, because I mean, just 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.560 just a second with you, James, how are you doing? 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:25.320 You're safe? 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.520 I'm okay, yeah, I'm safe right now. We are living 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.240 through wild times in the United States. Every day is 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:35.360 a new hell. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.760 Indeed, indeed, and although I'm not in the US, the 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.000 flames of that hell definitely lick the rest of the world. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:43.800 In weis big as tomorrow. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:45.960 Yeah, they definitely do. I was just talking to people 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:50.279 in Syria yesterday and like the alavis Ala white when 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.280 everyone call our levies, if you want to say it, 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:57.640 are facing quite substantial persecution currently and like one of 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.640 the larger refugee accepting countries in the world isn't doing 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.080 that anymore unless you're a white South African of course, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.560 and like that has these massive trickle down effects for everywhere. 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.440 It's just one example of how America so goes, the 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:12.520 US so goes, the world. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.280 You know, indeed, indeed, and not just in Syria, are 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.280 the flavors of conflict tearing up with the part I 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.520 think most people I now know what the situation in Palestine, 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.280 the way that Israel was carrying on to genocide there. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.480 You know, the Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the civil war 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.800 in Myanmar, in Sudan, the you know, struggle between India 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.240 and Pakistan over Kashmir and the kashmir people who are 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.920 you know, left on the on the wayside. You know, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.280 the Tamil genocide yep, taking place in in Sri Lanka. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.480 I mean, there's so many things happening across the world 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.480 right now, it's really difficult. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:54.320 To keep up. 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.120 Yeah. The friends in Meanma would prefer the framing of 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.920 revolution to civil war. They're pretty explicit about that. 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:06.080 Okay, Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, I should 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:07.640 be using that terminology. 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.760 Yeah, it's not appropriate everywhere, but in their case, there 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.920 has been a civil war since forty eight, and it's 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.639 a substantial change with the twenty twenty one revolution. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.919 Right, right, right, right, Yeah, thank you for that correction. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.760 of course, I think now is a really good time 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:29.200 to have a general almost strategic discussion on anti war struggle. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:31.360 And so today I really want to look at how 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.079 we can come to the propaganda around war, the actions 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.440 that are possible to take against militarism at home, and 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.480 how we can build solidarity across. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:41.720 Oceans and borders. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.240 Yeah, so to understand how to actually against war, we 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.200 first need to agitate against militarism. 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:49.760 And fosse who don't know. 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:54.000 Militarism is the belief or policy that the nation should 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.400 maintain a strong military and we prepare to use it 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:01.040 aggressively to defend or promote its interests. That involves glorifying 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.880 military vish use and ideals and prioritizing military strength and 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.280 readiness above other aspects of society. So it's a basic 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.040 Google definition. My copy of the Anarchist Encyclopedia is the 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:16.400 English version, which is aberged sadly, but the original French 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.799 has the full unabridged Anarchist Encyclopedia. So with a bit 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.840 of shaky online translation magic and managed to pull its 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.320 definition of militarism as well. Miltarism is a system that 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.880 consists of having and maintaining military personnel. It's essential and 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.800 avolt goal is a preparation for war, the recruitment of 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.760 a standing army, in the organization of the cajuris of 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.000 reserve army, the accumulation, the putting in place, the maintenance 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.440 in a state of service of ever more modern, more 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:46.240 perfected war material. In short, it is the preliminary organization 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.000 of war. What are the implications of that, Well, all 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.400 over the world I think we can see, you know, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:58.080 the consequences of statism, the might makes right, pursuit of conquest, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.080 the fighting wars abroad at home for the strategic interests, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.280 ideological commitments, resource claims, whatever the case may be. The 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.680 rivalries within the rule in class, and how that pleas out, 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.200 and how it's that that blows back on all of 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.120 our faces, you know, the profits the military industrial complex 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.599 which keeps this whole system chewing on, you know, the 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:26.400 blood of innocence, of course, the longstanding consequences and continued 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.000 work of colonialism. And of course, the way is that 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.360 militarism gets turned inward with this suppression of strikes, of activism, 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:39.400 of popular unrest. When the now militarized police aren't enough, 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.680 they often bring in the military itself and reports with 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.960 militarism you also have the narrative component, you know, the 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:54.039 building of patriotism that so plans the seed of fascism. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.400 States can survive without military is true. The state typically 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:05.720 to ends upon some effort or some attempt at monopoly 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.880 on the legitimate use of violence within the territory by 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.240 some definitions. But the states which do not have militaries 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.960 often can do so because they've outsourced their military functions 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.520 to another state, and or because they have other systems 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:25.280 in place to control descent, to develop a certain degree 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.799 of social condition and pacify the population. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.159 I'm just trying to think of states of the militaries, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.120 like in my experience, I guess you have like the 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.200 Panama right, doesn't have a military. It has the Center Front, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.839 which are like the frontier protection, I guess, but essentially 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.840 like a militarized border patrol. And they do have marines 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:45.320 and stuff as well, I guess, so they kind of 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:46.919 do have a military, but it's a kind of a 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:48.680 renaming exercise more than anything. 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.960 Indeed, the same thing of having a militarized police, but 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.279 it's not a military technically, yeah, or having a militarized 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.800 coast guard and it's not a military technically you. 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.000 Know, yeah, yeah, you have the countries they republic the 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.560 Marshall Islands, which just outsources its its militarization to the 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.560 United States, right like the US. Well, I think that 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.599 is a distinct thing. People in the Marshall Islands have 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:16.599 seen the horrors of war very closely and also the 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.960 dangers of militarization, right like, the United States nuked the 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.680 Marshall Islands a country with which it had no quarrel 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.240 with which it was not at war, just to practice 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.240 in case it needed to innuk a country with which 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.720 it did have a quarrel. I guess the legacy of 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.560 that is very obvious and continues to this day there. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.839 But if marshal Ly's people wish to join a military, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.000 they can join the US military, and the US guarantees 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.520 their security and theory that it's it's yeah, it is 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.279 a distinct. For instance, if you joined the US military 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.680 in the Marshall Islands wish to access your veterans benefits, 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.479 the easiest way to do so is take a five 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.839 hour flight to Hawaii. Like, they don't have any any 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.159 any benefits for actual veterans there, So I guess in 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.160 that case, like maybe it does give people a different 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.240 relationship to like state violent. 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:05.640 Yeah, it's I mean obviously different places to have different 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.839 histories as to how they came to those arrangements. But 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:14.440 you definitely see a relationship between colonialism and the outsourcing 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:15.960 of military functions. 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:17.520 Yeah, definitely. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:25.040 Now, historically anarchists have been anti militarists. The encyclopedias call 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.680 this aspect of the anarchist struggle. The aim to disqualifying militarism, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.880 to denounce it's terrible and painful consequences, to combat the 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.760 warlike and bar expert, distigmatize and dishonor war, to abolish 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.480 the regime of the armies. So abolition militarism looks like 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:50.040 material relief from the oppression military violence, the redirection of 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:56.040 resources that go toward military toward instead things that actually 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.440 benefit the lives of everyday people, you know, the reduction 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.800 of pain and suffering throughout the world, the abolition of borders, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:08.600 which so often are the motivating force behind military exercise. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.640 And while no anarki so deny that armed strugglers necessary 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.160 for defense, it's not the same as having an imperialistic 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:22.400 or hierarchical ambition towards you know, power, over towards dominating 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.080 our populations of people. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.880 Yeah, this reminds me of the discussion that happened in 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:32.559 the CNT and Spain in the nineteen thirties previous to 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.480 the Civil War, even before that, right where they there 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.400 was a very profound and obvious discussion on how to 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:46.720 defend their evolution, how to defend communities whilst maintaining anti militarism. 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.640 And that's why we didn't see like that was not 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:56.680 a like standing army. Beyond you had affinity groups, right, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.319 and then you had like defense committees of six six 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.440 to eight people, and those people like took on the 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.760 role of organizing for a potential violent like in order 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.680 to defend the community, right, like to use violence to 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.040 defend the community against violence. But even as it became 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:17.280 clearer and clearer that Spain was like spiraling towards conflict, 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.320 they resisted the idea of establishing and I think more 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:21.400 militarized than that. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.559 Yeah, And I think so what it's been a really 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:27.240 good place to look at first way, some experiments or 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.000 efforts or ideas would have played out, Strategies would have 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.560 played out, and I think it's really important to take 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.760 those experiments and see how we can iterate on them. Yeah, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.240 and build upon them, because I mean what I've always 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.600 admired that we've carried on this anti militarist torch. It's 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.760 very important to remember the landscape US changed from war 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.480 times past. You know, we're not in World War times anymore. Yes, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:58.400 you know, the strategies and the discussions and the approaches 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.600 that may have worked back then, it doesn't work. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:02.400 In the same way now. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.720 You don't even have to declare war officially anymore. In 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.920 this day and age. You can just say that, oh, 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.360 you're doing a special military operation, or you can just 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:16.320 send billions of dollars of aid to a country that 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.680 you want to support, and even troops to the countries 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.120 want to support, and technically you have un declared warrior. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:24.959 Yeah. 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.840 And you know, not only that, you also get to 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:34.320 unleash generational trauma and poison upon generations of people. But 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.360 it's okay because you're going after some terrorists. You know, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.640 you just get to push money and supplies towards this 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.120 camp or that, and whether the US is concerned and 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:50.000 at least used to have to seek congressional approval, but 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.040 as we see, that's not really a thing. Now, especially 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.120 post nine eleven. You know, back in the day, people 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.600 thought putting pressure on the elected officials through protest for 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.199 being a and you know, there's a the b to 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.120 be had to the extent to which that worked for 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.280 situations like the Vietamo. But as we've seen with this 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.000 song and Dance again and again and again, the protests 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.079 are not hitting like they used to. You know, the 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.560 response to the protest has been so it's routine at 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.960 this point. You know, you just send the police to 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.920 bash some heads in or a bat to get the 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.440 military because the movers and the shakers on the people 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.600 who can actually be reached with these protests, you know, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.000 and no matter how peaceful we proclaim our protests to be, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.439 we're talking about moneyed interests here, you know, a military 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.200 industrial complex that has to have line go up. You 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.440 know who who doesn't have to give a damn about 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.679 some people walking on the road. You know, the system 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.559 has grown since the nineteen tens, the nineteen fourteen is 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.600 it has grown in such size and complexity to the 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.119 point where you know, you don't have to care necessarily 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.000 about a single movement, but about a single action and 0:11:58.040 --> 0:11:59.040 a protest. 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.600 Yeah, and the two kind of combine and like what 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.480 we're seeing in the United Kingdom right now, right like 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.719 there's the complete dismissal of protests and this like I'm 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:13.319 thinking a better word than imprecise, but like the vagueness 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.480 of the definition of terrorism has allowed the government of 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.040 the United Kingdom, in combination with the absence of a 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.600 Bill of Rights in the United Kingdom, right to just 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.719 be like, oh, Palestine Action and terrorists like you are 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.400 the same as the Islamic State because Palestine Action undertook 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.520 it in non violent direct action, right, But it's ludicrous 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.679 to suggest that that that was terrorism and that it 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.880 doesn't mean any reasonable definition of the term. But yet 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.880 we're in a stage now where governments can declare anyone 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.559 the enemy without any particular oversight. And that's the logical 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.040 conclusion of two decades of this. 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.839 Yeah, I mean, to an extent, that has always been 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:52.839 the case. I think what's different now is that they're 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:57.280 not even really attempting to hide behind any sort of 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.080 consistent principles or consistent standards, you know, because even back 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.679 back then, you know, the artists are being called terrorists 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.920 and being mm hmm true, you know, chastised for that. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:13.760 Yeah, I guess also, like our class system is more 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.959 entrenched than it ever has been in a sense, I'm 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:21.560 just thinking, like, wars are not fought by the mass 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.559 of middle class. And like the people who become senators 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:27.400 for the most part, right, I mean, in the US 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.400 of Downs, senators will have done military service. It can 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.040 sort of boost their career opportunities. I get that, But 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.160 like it is not for the most part, the sons 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.800 of the of the people who who start the wars 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.720 who die in the wars. Right, it's indeed people of 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.800 a different class in a way that even in a 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.600 distinct way from the era of the World wars, right 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.959 when and when large numbers of people of the middle class, 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:58.000 especially maybe not the very privileged people that like did 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.000 die in those wars. And I think like the memory 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.200 of the First World War probably did have some impact 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.960 on like the reticence of some politicians to dive into 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.600 the second one. But we don't really have that now. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:25.960 Indeed, so we criticize this particular approach of the protest 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.720 and I know that the inevitable question is, so what 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.560 can we even do at this point? And you know 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.280 this is why I consider it very important to take 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.120 a step back and look at what is actually keeping 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.480 the system going right, and what's keeping the system going 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:47.200 is and it's always been labor. Right, not to say 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.120 that labor and labor struggles to be all and all 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.880 of our politics, but it is to say that if 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:58.200 we want to make a significant impact, that is what 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.640 we have the greatest control over our labor. And so 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.840 when I talk about things we can do to affect change, 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.640 I always had to take it back to the ongoing 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.960 process of social revolution. The things you do to oppose 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.320 and of things you do to propose, you know, on 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.880 the opposing side of things, that includes counter messaging. You know, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.920 even though we may not have the resources of mainstream 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.200 media or government communications, we have weight of mouth, we 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.000 have trust between ourselves, and we have alternative media that 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.040 can be, especially in this day and age, just as 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.680 powerful if sparked right, Especially considering the fact that the 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:42.800 general sentiment, the populist sentiment, has, whether coming from a 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.440 leftist direction or a right dist direction, the general sentiment 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:53.280 has been moving toward anti establishment politics. The anti establishment 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:58.080 sort of momentum is what's growing right now. And the 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.320 issue of course being that sometimes that anti established and 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.440 momentum can be hijacked, such as what Trump did you 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.600 know to get himself elected the first time he rode 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.600 that wave and you know, this whole Epstein situation, we 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:17.560 may see that foundation of his base potentially crumbling. 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:17.600 A part of it. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.280 But we have to look at what is actually motivating 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.920 people right now and how they can be reached. An 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.240 alternative media with an anti establishment message message is I 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.360 think one of the better ways to do so. Yeah, 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.720 you know, wherever you see it, it needs to be 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.680 out there, you know, on social media or through other 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.800 avenues calling out the ridiculous Cassius bellies used to manufacture 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.640 consent for you know, to be wary of potential forced 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.520 flags can be used as a justification for military action 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:57.960 to consistently poor calls in the narratives that have allowed 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.320 you know, nationalists and and xenophobic sentiments to become the 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.879 force that they have become today. And of course even 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.240 engaged in that messaging. Of course, try not to let 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.879 campus on infect your counter message in either. Yeah, you know, 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.680 that's how you get people who are you know, they gung, 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.719 who are about a free Palestine, and then they start when 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.120 they ask them about Ukraine all of a sudden, it's 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.399 actually really complicated. It's actually the fault of the US 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.680 and the EU and need to and not Russia, even 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.760 though Russia is the one who actually invaded and is 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.840 actively killing people and this strial infra short as we speak. Yeah, right, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.159 I mean there's conversation to be had about the US 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.920 and what's the EU, and about NATO obviously, but it's 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:42.840 very clear. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.800 Yeah, it's very uncomplicated. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.040 Who's actually killing people right now? 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.080 You know. Yeah, there is one country which is taking 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.440 the children right and trying to like re educate them 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.480 give them to families, in Russia, which is committing murders 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:03.320 of civilians. Like, we don't have to resort to like 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.080 ten year geopolitical trajectories to say that it's wrong and 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.040 it should be opposed exactly exactly. 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.359 And also I want to make this point about counter 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.560 messaging because it's a consistent gripe I've had, In fact, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.639 one of the main reasons I started my channel in 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.080 the first place. With your comment message in whether it's 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.840 in person or on the Internet or wherever, don't stay 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.159 perpetually on the back foot, you know, the words, don't 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.399 just counter message. Yeah, you know right now, and it's 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.440 what irritates me so much. The right wing sets the conversation. Yeah, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.680 you know, you have people they say, oh, we want 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.160 to talk about critical race theory, and then everybody's talking 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.439 about critical rais theory because they talk to where they 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.760 want to target trans people, and all of a sudden 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.880 we have to scrabble to respond to all their erroneous 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.439 and ridiculous claims about trans people. Yeah, that comment message 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.320 is an important, is important, but it cannot be all 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.600 that we do, right Yeah, and this is a bit 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.640 how to that feel. But you know, of course I'm 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.879 not the one who is partiality liketoral approaches. But you 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.480 can see some of that not just counter message in 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:20.480 but also actively messaging taking place with Zora Mum Danny's strategy. Yeah, 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.120 you know, when you look at how he speaks, how 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:23.960 he addresses some of. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.119 The badly the doarguments are made against him. 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.879 His rhetorical strength and popularity in part lies on his 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.399 refusal to carry on the conversation on the enemies too, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.560 you know, so they will go at him for something 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.480 and he's going to spit it right back around to 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:41.760 talking about the things that it's just really master to 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.560 people to set the conversation to get people to respond 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.680 to that, because all other responses toward him have been 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:51.919 trying to distract from his actual message in and his 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.359 ability to steal on message is something I find really admirable, 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.879 despite you know, my concerns about the vestment of energy 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.280 and electoral strategies. 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:04.959 Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, there are certain things we can 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.080 admire about those people if we don't agree with everything. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.679 And I do think like in that sense something I 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.399 think about a lot with like messaging and countermessaging, especially 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:20.120 around war. It's like I've spent some time in the 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.080 Anes and what people call Java, and like one of 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.399 the framings that I've consistently seen, and it's mostly in 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:33.399 like the Libleaning mass media, I guess, is that people 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.480 went to Rajaba to fight against Is or Dash or Isis, 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.080 whatever you want to call it, right, and like in 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.600 doing so, that is how the revolutionary Jarba is not 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.879 understood by most people, right, and they have taken the 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.679 power away from it in their framing of it, because 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.320 people didn't just go. Some people did go justify I 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.680 right that there they went because they saw what I 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.879 was doing. They understood its inhumane and they wanted that 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.000 to stop, and that's admirable. But people also went because 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.679 they saw what people were building in Rajava and they 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.919 thought that was beautiful and they wanted to defend it, 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:13.879 and that's admirable too. And sometimes the messaging around specifically 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.720 ra Java, Mia and Mar to an extent right their 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.359 international volunteers there too, and of course that like folks 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:21.359 from the AMMA who have picked up weapons who never 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.960 thought they would, and they didn't just do it to 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.280 oppose the hunter. They did it because like in there, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.919 despite all the horrible things about war then and like 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.760 it should be avoided at all costs. In the conflict, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.480 they have built liberated spaces and they've experienced freedom and 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.520 they have experienced how that feels, and they've built a 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:47.920 revolution that is beautiful in spite of the war, not 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.480 because of it, and they want to defend that. And 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.760 I think that's a messaging that we should we should consider, right, 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:59.359 because the messaging that everything has to be against something 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:04.520 bad always sort of it presupposes so that there can't 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.280 have been something good, and in some cases there has 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.480 been something good, and like we won't fully understand what 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.840 was happening there unless we understand that, and I think 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:17.040 we should push back on that messaging what we see it, 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.280 especially in the great legacy media. 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.760 Absolutely, absolutely, and that really connects to the you know, 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:29.280 the other aspect of the social revolution paradigm, because it's 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.000 not just about opposing and so it's proposing that that's 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:37.520 something different. Yeah, and that is often far more energizing 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.360 and then simply talking about everything that's wrong. 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.240 With the world. Yeah, definitely. 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.720 And I think also for those who maybe have concerns 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:53.640 about the risks of oppositional messaging, there's another area where 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.359 you can direct your energy to support the opposition without 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:01.160 necessarily actively being involved in it, you know, because it's 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.240 not enough to just oppose the system. You have to 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:04.800 build something else, and you could be part of that 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.000 building something else, you know, swim a message and you 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.439 want to be able to readirect people's energies to the 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.919 actual frustrations and interests, you know, to re center the 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:18.240 conflicting the lens on the actual divisions of society, such 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:22.760 as class, to make moneyed interests known. And you know, 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.000 even though it's never been easy to be anti war, 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:28.840 you know, especially in the center of empire, and in 0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:32.639