1
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,039
Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My

2
00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb.

3
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 2: And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday time for

4
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 2: an episode from the Vault. This one originally aired December fifteenth,

5
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and it's called a Goblet of Eggnog.

6
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 2: It's all about that thick, thick drink.

7
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,799
Speaker 1: That's right. I was on the fence. I was like,

8
00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: is it too early to rerun the eggnog episode? And

9
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: then I had to remind myself, well, I've already had

10
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,199
Speaker 1: my first cup of eggnog for this holiday season, so

11
00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: obviously it is not too early.

12
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 2: You really want to listen to this episode before you

13
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 2: do most of your eggnog drinking for the year, not after.

14
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,160
Speaker 1: Right, right. Yeah. It's stuff to discuss during the preparation

15
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 1: or to take with you to the store when you

16
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,280
Speaker 1: purchase it. I think it's been on the shelves in

17
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 1: the grocery store since like mid October or something.

18
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:53,560
Speaker 2: I love that.

19
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,640
Speaker 1: I'm surprised they haven't rebranded it as a Halloween drink

20
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: as well, have orange eggnog. I mean, there you go,

21
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,240
Speaker 1: Green free ideas, here, free ideas.

22
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 2: Vampire dog.

23
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, let's uh, let's pour it up

24
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 1: and have a sip. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your

25
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 1: Mind production of iHeartRadio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow

26
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

27
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 1: It's that time of year again, and by that time,

28
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean it is the holidays. We're knee deep, perhaps

29
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 1: waist deep in the holidays, and there's no going back.

30
00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,280
Speaker 1: We might as well just push forward at this point,

31
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: like it's just as much just as much effort to

32
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,760
Speaker 1: keep going as it would be to turn back. So

33
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: once more, we have a holiday episode for you. It's

34
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 1: actually going to be our third installment in our Holiday

35
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: Invention series, where we more or less give the invention

36
00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: treatment to various holiday decorations, traditions, and toys. This year,

37
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: we're going to be looking in earnest at eggnog.

38
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 2: Is eggnog an invention? Sure, we can stretch the definition.

39
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 2: I think that's okay.

40
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, we did an invention, a

41
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,160
Speaker 1: full blown invention episode about the Matai, which we you know,

42
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: we had Jeff beach bombarry on as a guest to

43
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: talk about that eggnog is not something that occurs naturally

44
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,359
Speaker 1: in the world. It must be made at some point.

45
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 1: There had to be a first or something like a first,

46
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,079
Speaker 1: and you know, we'll get into that and and it's

47
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 1: one of those things that has a number of different

48
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,840
Speaker 1: customs and cultural details surrounding it. Now, Joe, I'm not

49
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,600
Speaker 1: sure what your relationship with eggnog happens to be, because

50
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 1: I don't know that we've ever really spoken about this.

51
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 1: I don't think we've had eggnog together before, not that

52
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 1: I recall, but my family's general approach is originally buy

53
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: a carton of almond nag each year, largely for our

54
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: son because he gets super into it. And if I

55
00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: have a chance to visit a like an upscale cocktail

56
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,519
Speaker 1: or a nice restaurant, then I will jump at the

57
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to order an eggnog if they have one on

58
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: the menu. In the past, I've made it down to

59
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: New Orleans for the start of Beach Bumberry Sipping Santa

60
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,079
Speaker 1: festivities at Beach bumb Berry's Latitude twenty nine. They also

61
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 1: have pop ups all over the place, and they'll generally

62
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 1: have at least one holiday tiki beverage on there that

63
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,639
Speaker 1: is at least eggnog esque in form.

64
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 2: I'm picturing piles of crushed or pellet ice with kind

65
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 2: of a frothy, creamy grime about them, and some nutmeg

66
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 2: sprinkled over top.

67
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the nutmeg, as we'll discuss, is pretty essential.

68
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 1: So I did make it down there this year, but

69
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,840
Speaker 1: I did make it over to a tiki bar in

70
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 1: our area, Decatur's Sost Bar, and I enjoyed a frozen

71
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: take on a classic eggnog. So generally a rich drink though,

72
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 1: so once twice three times per year max. That's generally

73
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: enough for me. Before we came in here, though, I

74
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: mentioned to my wife that I was about to record

75
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 1: the eggnog episode, and she was kind enough to provide

76
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,480
Speaker 1: me with an entire glass of eggnog here for me

77
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: to consume during this episode. The listeners at home, You'll

78
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: have to take my word for it, Joe. I think

79
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,839
Speaker 1: you can see it on the video feed here.

80
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 2: Wait, is this full boozeggnog or.

81
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:29,600
Speaker 1: Well you might well presume that, but I couldn't possibly comment. Yes, creamy, rich,

82
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 1: hint of nutmeg, beautiful.

83
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 2: I have no eggnog in the house. A cute cute

84
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 2: Joe Peshei and Home Alone saying eggnog, eggnog dressed as

85
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 2: a cop like, eggnog is the most disgusting substance on earth.

86
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,599
Speaker 2: And you know what, as a child, that was pretty

87
00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 2: much where my head was at. I was like, yeah,

88
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,560
Speaker 2: Joe Peshi in Home Alone is correct. I found the

89
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,960
Speaker 2: idea revolting. Not just revolting. I I think I probably

90
00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,280
Speaker 2: found it borderline nauseating to think of a drink made

91
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: out of eggs. Something changed over the years. Now I

92
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,680
Speaker 2: find it quite delightful.

93
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,159
Speaker 1: So it was the eggs that threw you off?

94
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're gonna drink eggs. I don't know. So

95
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,160
Speaker 2: I think about eggs. There's something that, you know. I

96
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,360
Speaker 2: liked eggs scrambled like they make them at the cracker barrel.

97
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking of like a thick, yellow curd

98
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 2: like substance, and always in savory context. I mean, I know,

99
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 2: obviously now that eggs are used in all kinds of

100
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 2: baking and sweet contexts, but that's not how I thought

101
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 2: about them when I was a kid. So the idea

102
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 2: of drinking a sweet egg based beverage was absolutely vile

103
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,480
Speaker 2: to my brain.

104
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,359
Speaker 1: I can understand that. I mean, even the name is

105
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,920
Speaker 1: a bit potentially off putting. It's very forward with the egg.

106
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 1: What you were about to drink contains eggs, and then

107
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 1: the nog also can throw one for a curve. I

108
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,800
Speaker 1: do like some of the archaic spellings of eggnog that

109
00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 1: I've encountered researching this episode. Oftentimes the way we encounter

110
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,840
Speaker 1: it now it's egg n og, but some of these

111
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 1: other spellings will be egg n ogg. I like the

112
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,160
Speaker 1: double the double g's occurring in both parts of the work.

113
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 2: That's just symmetry, that's good branding.

114
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 1: Yes, now, before we proceed, I guess we should go

115
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,279
Speaker 1: ahead and drive home exactly what eggnog is. We've alluded

116
00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: to it a little bit already, but technically it's a

117
00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 1: milk egg drink or a milk egg punch. And we've

118
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,840
Speaker 1: of course reached the point as a civilization where you

119
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 1: can have something that is identifiable as a nog without

120
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,360
Speaker 1: the presence of egg or dairy. But historically this is

121
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,640
Speaker 1: the realm from which this beverage arises.

122
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 2: Right. So you you mentioned almond nog. I guess that

123
00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,840
Speaker 2: is equivalent in the same way that you might have

124
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 2: almond milk. It is a substitute for milk.

125
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, though I guess it's even more like some people

126
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 1: get up in arms, especially the dairy industry. I know

127
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: about things that are not milk calling themselves milk, and

128
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: even more of the when I guess something like a

129
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: soy nog or an almond nog is going to have

130
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: neither eggs nor dairy, and so it is even further removed.

131
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: But yet it's still very much in the spirit of

132
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 1: the classic nog, so I think it more than qualifies.

133
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, nog is a thick, creamy, sweet drink.

134
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a state of mind. It's a holiday tradition. Now,

135
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: one of the sources I'm going to refer back to

136
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 1: several times in this episode is the excellent book Imbibe

137
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: exclamation Point by David Wandriche, which is a text that

138
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: we've referenced in the show in the past. It is

139
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: one of, if not the best books you can pick

140
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 1: up on the history of the American cocktail. This is

141
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: a great book. It's cites, among many others, the legendary

142
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: professor Jerry Thomas who lived eighteen thirty through eighteen eighty five,

143
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: the New Orleans bartender who wrote the seminal Bartender's Guide

144
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 1: and helped popularize cocktail drinking in general. We're go into

145
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: more depth on this in an older episode episodes that

146
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 1: we did together on Mixology.

147
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 2: I think we ended up talking about absinthe a lot

148
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 2: in those.

149
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would make sense, and I know Jerry Thomas

150
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: also comes up in the recent episode on ice the

151
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 1: interview that I did. But according to Wondrich, basic milk

152
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: punches go back to the late sixteen hundreds and to

153
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 1: give you an example of what a milk punch consists of,

154
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,680
Speaker 1: and again this is not an egg milk punch. This

155
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 1: is just a milk punch. Wondridge includes a recipe from

156
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,040
Speaker 1: Jerry Thomas. Jerry Thomas would have you know, brought up

157
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,199
Speaker 1: together a bunch of these different recipes for drinks and

158
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 1: put them in his own book at the time. This

159
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 1: particular recipe from Jerry Thomas calls for sugar water, brandy

160
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,000
Speaker 1: rum and shaved ice. A little nutmeg goes on top,

161
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 1: and wondridch includes a quote from This is an eighteen

162
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,120
Speaker 1: seventy three quote from the Brooklyn Eagle that states that

163
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 1: this punch was quote the surest thing in the world

164
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,600
Speaker 1: to get drunk on and so fearfully drunk that you

165
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: won't know whether you are a cow yourself or some

166
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 1: other foolish thing.

167
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's that's good. No. One thing I have to

168
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,640
Speaker 2: point out is that when you listed the ingredients, you

169
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 2: did not list milk. So I assume these are the

170
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: things that are added to the milk.

171
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay, yeah. The milk would would also be

172
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: be an important part of this. It's so already we're

173
00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: kind of in the territory of what we think of

174
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,040
Speaker 1: when we think about eggnog. But of course there are

175
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 1: no eggs there now when it comes to eggnog itself.

176
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,599
Speaker 1: Thomas was very much of the opinion that eggnog was

177
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: quote a beverage of American origin, and Wondrich states that

178
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,840
Speaker 1: quote the drink's earliest mentions come from a seventeen eighty

179
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: eight Philadelphia newspaper, and all the other mentions are American

180
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: and if early European travelers to the United States viewed

181
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: it as one of the novelties Americans were inflicting on

182
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: the art of drinking. By the eighteen sixties, it was

183
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 1: a drink of comfortable middle age with a wide, if

184
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 1: strictly seasonal popularity. When Thomas added that in the North

185
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: quote it is a favorite of all seasons, he was

186
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 1: certainly overstating the case.

187
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 2: So you bring up that mention in the seventeen eighty

188
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,599
Speaker 2: eight newspaper, and this name drop of eggnog as a

189
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 2: recipe is also referenced in a great source I found

190
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 2: that was aimed at unearthing the etymological history of eggnog,

191
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 2: because it's obvious why the word egg is in the name.

192
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 2: There are eggs in it, But what exactly is anog? Could,

193
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,400
Speaker 2: as the Simpsons proposed, you equally whip up a cauldron

194
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 2: of corn nog.

195
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 1: Corn dog sounds kind of delicious, like it brings to

196
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: mind like corn puddings.

197
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 2: I think it occurs in the Simpsons episode with the hurricane,

198
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,680
Speaker 2: when the stores are there's a run on the Quickie

199
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,679
Speaker 2: Mart and the only things left on the shelves are

200
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 2: corn nog and wadded beef. But anyway, diving into the

201
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,080
Speaker 2: history and etymology of eggnog, corn nog, whatever, what have you?

202
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 2: Any nogs? My source here is a December two thousand

203
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 2: and nine article called the Origins of Eggnog Holiday Grog

204
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 2: by the American Linguist and Language columnist Ben Zimmer, who

205
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 2: is brother of the excellent science writer Karl Zimmer, who's

206
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,079
Speaker 2: been a guest on the show before Huh Crazy. So

207
00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 2: here's what Ben Zimmer says about nog. The word nog

208
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,720
Speaker 2: first shows up as a regional term in England, specifically

209
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 2: in the region of East Anglia, so it's the eastern

210
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,520
Speaker 2: part of the country containing Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire, and

211
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,360
Speaker 2: it referred that term. They are referred to a type

212
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 2: of beer. We know this because of a letter written

213
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 2: from the County of Norfolk in the year sixteen ninety

214
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 2: three by a man named Humphrey Priudeaux, who described quote

215
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 2: a bottle of old strong beer, which in this country

216
00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 2: they call nog. So nog is high gravity beer, it's

217
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,960
Speaker 2: strong stuff. But to take one step back, why would

218
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 2: the East Anglians call strong beer noog? Zimmer identifies a

219
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 2: couple of hypotheses here. One is that it comes from

220
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,160
Speaker 2: the word noggin, which we today think of as antiquated

221
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 2: slang for head for your head. But before that nogin

222
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 2: meant a small mug or a small drink of spirits.

223
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 2: So perhaps noggin was shorter was shortened to nog, and

224
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 2: it came to refer to the beer inside the mug

225
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 2: instead of the mug itself. And we do that kind

226
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,839
Speaker 2: of metonymy with words today like did you have wine? Oh,

227
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,600
Speaker 2: I drank two glasses. You're not saying you literally drank

228
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 2: the glass. The glasses mean the wine inside the glass, right.

229
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,560
Speaker 2: But another idea is that the word noog for strong

230
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:55,280
Speaker 2: beer comes from a Scottish word nug or nugged ale,

231
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 2: which means ale that you heat up by sticking a

232
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,240
Speaker 2: hot poker in it, which is funny enough to imagine

233
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 2: in itself, but I can also see how that would

234
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:09,000
Speaker 2: correspond to a drink with strong alcohol alcohol content, because

235
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 2: drinks with higher alcohol content are often said to taste

236
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 2: warm or even to burn.

237
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 1: Hmmm, yeah, this is this is interesting. It brings to mind,

238
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,520
Speaker 1: you know, the images of some of these older drinks

239
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,960
Speaker 1: where you'd you would you would stick the hot poker

240
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: or some sort of hot metal into it. I think

241
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: there's a scene in the excellent TV series The Nick

242
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 1: where you see some of the characters getting a drink

243
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 1: of this fashion.

244
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 2: M Okay, so so far we've got the idea that

245
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,880
Speaker 2: you start with either a little mug called a noggin

246
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 2: or a type of beer warmed with a hot poker

247
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 2: called a nug And somehow one of these terms gets

248
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,400
Speaker 2: poured it over into this East Anglian word nog, which

249
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 2: means strong beer. But how does that actually get connected

250
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,439
Speaker 2: to the sweet, milky, eggy drink we are familiar with.

251
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 2: We don't know for sure, but the link in the

252
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 2: chain seems to be alcohol, because while you can buy

253
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 2: kid friendly nog in the dairy isle these days, everything

254
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 2: I've been reading suggests that early eggnog was boozy. That

255
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 2: was a primary characteristic of what the noog was. It

256
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:13,960
Speaker 2: had a lot of alcohol in it.

257
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, That's exactly what I saw in all of

258
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 1: my research. Nobody's talking about eggnog is something that is

259
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,040
Speaker 1: then spiked. It is inherently spiked.

260
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 2: And Zimmer reports that a Maryland clergyman named Jonathan Bouche

261
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 2: is alleged to have written the first known reference to

262
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,160
Speaker 2: eggnog and a poem in seventeen seventy five, but this

263
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 2: poem was not published until about thirty years later, so

264
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,480
Speaker 2: we don't know when it was actually written for sure.

265
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 2: But the relevant section of the poem goes like this,

266
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 2: fog DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. This

267
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 2: is nog with two g's at night hot suppings and

268
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 2: at mid day grog my palette can regale. So you

269
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 2: see the The context here is fully alcoholic grog refers

270
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 2: to a spirit or alcoholic beverage. Then there's that line

271
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 2: fog DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. A

272
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 2: dram usually refers to a small drink of whiskey, and

273
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,359
Speaker 2: according to Miriam Webster, fog DRAMs are quote DRAMs resorted

274
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 2: to on the pretense of their protecting from the danger

275
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 2: of fog. I'm sorry, boss, I had to have another

276
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,600
Speaker 2: whiskey before work, or the fog could have killed me

277
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:33,360
Speaker 2: on the way here.

278
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 1: All right, well, yeah, this is making sense. An early

279
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: morning drink though, because you get your fog protection, you

280
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: get a couple of eggs in there. Maybe you know

281
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: this is a breakfast that you're drinking down exactly.

282
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 2: So Bouchet may have written that in seventy seventy five.

283
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 2: It's hard to say for sure, but according to Zimmer,

284
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 2: the earliest rock solid references to eggnog where we know

285
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 2: the date of their public appear in a handful of

286
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: newspapers in the year seventeen eighty eight, as you mentioned earlier. Now,

287
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 2: one is a March seventeen eighty eight report in the

288
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 2: New Jersey Journal, which and I love that this is

289
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 2: what some newspaper articles consisted of at the time. It says,

290
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 2: a young man with a cormorant appetite meaning like gluttonous.

291
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 2: A young man with a cormorant appetite voraciously devoured last

292
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 2: week at Connecticut farms thirty raw eggs, a glass of eggnog,

293
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 2: and another of brandy sling.

294
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, is this what newspapers were back in the day?

295
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: Did you have like a gluttony page for You're like,

296
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,560
Speaker 1: what's everybody overeating in New Jersey?

297
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 2: Stop the presses. We've got to get this story, this

298
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 2: hot story about the guy who ate thirty eggs in there. Okay,

299
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 2: so whatever eggnog is at the time, he had some

300
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,520
Speaker 2: Another article is from October seventeen eighty eight in the

301
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 2: Independent Gazetteer of Philadelphia, where a writer was complaining about

302
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 2: an upset stomach and wrote, quote, when wine and beer,

303
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 2: punch and eggnog meat instantly ensues.

304
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 1: A quarrel, that there's wisdom to that, I think.

305
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've only ever heard the liquor before beer kind

306
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,920
Speaker 2: of thing. I've never heard it taken out to four

307
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 2: different things with like punch and eggnog in there.

308
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,399
Speaker 1: You know, we were looking back at a time when

309
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 1: drinking was a little more robust throughout the country.

310
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 2: I think, yeah. So anyway, yeah, I love the fact

311
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 2: that newspapers not only used to report on what some

312
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,159
Speaker 2: guy aided a form, but also what gave me an

313
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:40,560
Speaker 2: upset tummy. So it sounds like an alcoholic beverage known

314
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: as eggnog was in common parlance in the colonies and

315
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 2: the young United States in the late eighteenth century. But

316
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 2: Zimmer also documents how an early example of eggnog was

317
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: associated with Christmas celebration by citing a piece in the

318
00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 2: Virginia Chronicle from January seventeen ninety three, which reads as follows.

319
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,840
Speaker 2: On last Christmas Eve, several gentlemen met at Northampton Courthouse

320
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 2: and spent the evening in mirth and festivity when eggnog

321
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 2: was the principal liquor used by the company. After they

322
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 2: had indulged pretty freely in this beverage, a gentleman in

323
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,359
Speaker 2: the company offered a bet that not one of the

324
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 2: party could write four verses extempore, which should be rhyme

325
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 2: and sense. Okay, he's like, we're so drunk, I bet

326
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 2: none of you can write four lines of poetry that

327
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 2: will make sense and rhyme. So what do they come

328
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 2: up with? While one guy belts out the following, 'tis

329
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: eggnog now, whose golden streams dispense far richer treasures to

330
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 2: the ravished sense. The muse from wine derives a transient glare,

331
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:55,399
Speaker 2: but Eggnog's drafts afford her solid fare. So move over, wine.

332
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: The muses are no longer interested in you now they

333
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 2: will only be singing to people who are chug and agnog.

334
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: Eggnog doesn't seem to have a personification though, Like, there's

335
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 1: no like Satyr of Egnog.

336
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: Right, the Dionysus of Eggnog.

337
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose it's. You know, he was before its time.

338
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: I think he would he would have approved of Egnog,

339
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 1: especially based on these historical references to agno.

340
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 2: So do we know exactly what they were putting in

341
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: eggnog at the time. Well, there's a book from seventeen

342
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 2: ninety nine called Travels through the States of North America

343
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 2: and the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada during the

344
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 2: years seventeen ninety five, ninety six and ninety seven by

345
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 2: an Irish writer and explorer named Isaac Weld. And this

346
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 2: passage actually reminds me of earlier when you were citing

347
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 2: I think David Wondrich who said that sometimes people from

348
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 2: Europe might encounter egnog and think, oh what what you know,

349
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 2: what crimes they're committing against a drinking culture here in

350
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 2: the Americas. And I wonder if there's a little bit

351
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: of that kind of raised eyebrow going on in this passage.

352
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 2: But we'll see what you think. So Weld is writing

353
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 2: about a stop at an inn near Baltimore, Maryland, where

354
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 2: he writes, quote, several travelers had stopped at the same

355
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 2: house that I did the first night I was on

356
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 2: the road, and we all breakfasted together preparatory to setting

357
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 2: out the next morning. The American travelers, before they pursued

358
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: their journey, took a hearty draft each. According to custom

359
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 2: of eggnog, a mixture composed of new milk, eggs, rum,

360
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 2: and sugar beat up together, so eggnog it should be heavy, sweet,

361
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: exploding with alcohol. Drunk in large quantities in the morning

362
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 2: before setting out on a long journey.

363
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I mean it really it forces you

364
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: to rethink eggnog because I think a lot of people

365
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 1: are probably like like me, you grew up exposed to

366
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: again the grocery store egnog, and there's this kind of

367
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: sense that eggnog is this drink for everybody. Eggnog's this

368
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: drink for kids. And as you get older, then you're

369
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 1: perhaps in a situation where you can have the eggnog

370
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 1: with something added to it, eggnog plus you know, if

371
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: you like. But this that the historical truth of eggnog

372
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 1: is no, this is the thing that the really drunken

373
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 1: adults are having sometimes first thing in the morning.

374
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: Also regarding famous eggnog recipes from the early days of

375
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: the United States, there is a famous recipe for eggnog

376
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: that is alleged to come from George Washington's kitchen papers.

377
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 2: You'll find this if you google George Washington's Eggnog. I've

378
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: seen some serious doubt cast upon its origins, like whether

379
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: it was actually Washington's. But according to the Farmer's Almanac,

380
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 2: this famous recipe goes as follows. It's one quart cream,

381
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: one quart milk, one dozen tablespoons sugar, one pint brandy,

382
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 2: half a pint rye whiskey, half a pint Jamaica rum,

383
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 2: and a quarter pint sherry. And then you mix the liquor,

384
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: separate the yolks in the whites of twelve eggs, add

385
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 2: sugar to the beaten yolks. Mix well. Then you add

386
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: milk and cream, slowly beating. Beat the whites of the

387
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 2: eggs until stiff peaks form, then fold slowly into the mixture.

388
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: Then you let it sit in a cool place for

389
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 2: several days. Then quote taste frequently. And I could be wrong,

390
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: but I believe this is the recipe that our colleague,

391
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: our colleague Alex Williams uses when he makes his famous

392
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: eggnog for all of our coworkers.

393
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: Yes, it definitely is. This is definitely the recipe he

394
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: would use, and it is quite delightful. But yeah, I

395
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: encountered the same thing. Looking at the actual history of this,

396
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: there's some doubt as to whether George Washington actually serve this,

397
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: And then there are some accounts that say, well, it

398
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: looks like maybe there's evidence that eggnog was served at

399
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: Mount Vernon but as far as the precise recipe, I

400
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: don't know that there's a lot of data to back

401
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: that up. Yeah, though we will have We will touch

402
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,959
Speaker 1: on at least one former US president who did have

403
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: a recipe for eggnog and did serve it and drink it.

404
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: All right, all this being said, before we proceed with eggnog,

405
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: I think we can at least consider the possibility of predecessors. That, Yes,

406
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 1: even if egnog is something that emerges in North America,

407
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: there are at least things not unlike agnog that one

408
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: can encounter, say in at least late medieval and post

409
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: medieval Europe.

410
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: Oh yes, some gorgeous textures to imagine.

411
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's go back to the late Middle Ages

412
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: and drink some hard milk. So European holiday traditions, which

413
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: of course inform holiday traditions and Colonial America and beyond

414
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: are a mix of Christian traditions, more ancient traditions, and

415
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: a great deal of regional variability. I was, in fact,

416
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: just researching the hoodin Hoden Horse of Kent for the

417
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: Monster Fact series, and I think that's a great example

418
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: of this. It brings to mind various costume street wandering

419
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: traditions as well as caroling and was sailing. Wassaile, of course,

420
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: is a door to door ritualistic and communal hot drink

421
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: that typically contained mold cider ale or wine and spices.

422
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 1: But then there is the tradition of the posset, posset

423
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: the passet. Yes, the Smithsonian Magazine website has a nice

424
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: article about this, titled Past the Posset colon the Medieval

425
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: Eggnog by Lisa Braman, And according to this article, it

426
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: apparently dates back to late medieval Europe, and it looks

427
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: like some of the examples come to us from the

428
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: post medieval world and beyond. Anyway, the passet itself is

429
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: a drinking vessel, as Brayman points out, and you see

430
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: mention of it even in Shakespeare's Macbeth, in which Lady

431
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: Macbeth poisons the possets of the guards outside Duncan's quarters.

432
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: Oh I forgot about that.

433
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: I had as well, when when the author here brings

434
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,239
Speaker 1: it up, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember that

435
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,719
Speaker 1: line vaguely. But you encounter so many archaic cords if

436
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: you're reading or performing Shakespeare that you can't stop to wonder.

437
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: Overall it's enough to be like, okay, it's this means

438
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: drinking vessel. Okay, what's the next strange word that doesn't

439
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: quite register for me? Let me translate that one in

440
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: my head. But this is a If you can actually

441
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: look up examples of this vessel online, the pauset this

442
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: P O S S E T, and you'll find that

443
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: some of the main examples of this it looks curiously

444
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: like an ornate teapot with handles on both sides, a

445
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: wide lidded aperture at the top, with a with a

446
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: with a lid on top, and the stem for it,

447
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: you know, like that like a te kettle. It feeds

448
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 1: from the bottom of the vessel rather than from the

449
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: middle or the top of the vessel. The reason for

450
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: this design, according to brain And, is that you can

451
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: drink directly from the stem to get at the liquid

452
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: contents of the of the of the liquid it contains,

453
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: but also you can take the lid off the top

454
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: and go at the top of it with a spoon,

455
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: because basically you're gonna have a mixture of things. You're

456
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: gonna have a fluid beneath and kind of a chonky

457
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: chonky creamy perhaps cheesy layer at the top.

458
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: So this is like, it's like a curdled milk drink

459
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: that has that has cheesy, floaty solid bits on the

460
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: top you want to get with a spoon.

461
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: Yes, the way that Brayman describes it is quote both

462
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: a drink and a dessert with a layer of thick,

463
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: sweet gruel floating above the liquid. Okay, so okay. On

464
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: one hand, I realized that could potentially be interpreted as gross,

465
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I think it's not that

466
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: different from a lot of sort of frothy dessert things

467
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: we have today. I think about certain milkshakes, certain smoothies,

468
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: certainly especially the older school cappuccinos, where the foam cap

469
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: on top was maybe a little firmer, and you might

470
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: have to go at that with a spoon as opposed

471
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: to drinking it. So I kind of reject the idea

472
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: that this potential hygiene issues aside of late medieval ages.

473
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't think this is necessarily that gross of an

474
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: idea that you could have some sort of like a

475
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: thick portion on the top of your beverage that requires

476
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: a spoon. It's just like a little different to imagine

477
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: this bizarre container for its consumption, though nowadays I do

478
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: want to point out we do have things like the

479
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: spoon straw, which is like a plastic usually like a

480
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: plastic straw and spoon combined so that you can do both.

481
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: They did not have this technology in the late medieval

482
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: period to my knowledge. Therefore they had to use a poset.

483
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it is the same principle as a straw,

484
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: which I don't find unusual. But I have to say

485
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: it is funny to imagine some like drinking out of

486
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: the stem of a tea kettle.

487
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does seem like you might burn your

488
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: mouth with this, So recorded recipes, many of these came later.

489
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: I believe they called if you were going to fill

490
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: the pauset, it would call for a great deal of

491
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: egg and cream. They might also call for beer, sugar,

492
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: and also thickening agents such as bread, biscuits, oatmeal, and

493
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: almond paste. In some cases, the upper portions are said

494
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: to take on a cheesey quality, which actually brings to

495
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: mind modern cheese milk tea drinks, which are quite delightful

496
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: if you haven't had one, I know, this is something

497
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: that can be kind of hard to imagine. Why should

498
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: my milk tea taste like cheese. Well it's it's not

499
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: what you're imagining if you're imagining something that turns your stomach.

500
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: It's not like cheddar cheese on the top of your tea.

501
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: It's something sweetier and creamier, but with that slight cheesy twist.

502
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 2: To it, not like provolone.

503
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: Right right now. I should also mention there are more

504
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: contemporary posset dishes, such as you often see recipes for

505
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: something called a lemon passet, but this seems somewhat more

506
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: refined compared to what is described here. This is not

507
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: something you drink out of a strange tea kettle. It's

508
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: something you spoon out of a dish. But is it eggnog? Well,

509
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: in many ways, if not most ways, no. But it

510
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: also sounds like the sort of thing that if you

511
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: were a time traveler from an eggnog having culture and

512
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: you went back to the late medieval ages and you're like,

513
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: where's my eggnog and people are like what are you

514
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: talking about? You might discover the posset and be like, oh,

515
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: well this will work, this will do. Now my holiday

516
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: is complete.

517
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a liquidy egg and milk or egg and

518
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: cream type.

519
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 1: Thing, right, And I think it's not crazy to imagine

520
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: that this sort of precedent for this sort of drink

521
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: and the sort of taste sensations that it brings about,

522
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: this could feed into the very American traditions that would,

523
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: according to Thomas, bring about the American eggnog.

524
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: So I assume after we get out of this early

525
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: period where mentions are scarce and don't really explain much

526
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: about eggnog except like the Irish guy who's clearly not

527
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: familiar with it, we get into a period where there

528
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 2: is more extensive writing on eggnog, maybe like in actual

529
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: cookery manuals.

530
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more material on You was

531
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: a certain point, and Wondrich has a whole chapter on

532
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: egg drinks in his book im Vibe. As he writes it,

533
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: there quote neither punches nor part of the lineage of cocktails.

534
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: And this is also somewhat how Jerry Thomas and the

535
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: people of his day would have classified them. One of

536
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: the things that really amazed me about all this, though,

537
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: is that Wondredge points out that egg drinks were once

538
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: far more common and kind of a daily affair, but

539
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: that few survive today. This kind of comes back to

540
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: your example earlier about egg nog for breakfast, Why not perfect,

541
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: keep the fog away, et cetera. Now, now I should

542
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: point out this is the two thousand and seven books,

543
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure if we've seen anything in the

544
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: way of a resurgence of egg drinks. It might be

545
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: the case, though, you know, given the spirit of cocktail

546
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: making and it's tend to re explore older fashions and

547
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: even remake them with modern twists, I don't feel like

548
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: it's tremendously uncommon to find at least a single egg

549
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: drink on a fancy cocktail menu, though to be sure,

550
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: you probably won't find them on just random restaurant cocktail menus.

551
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if Chili's offers an egg drink.

552
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, what are the standard egg drinks other? Well,

553
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: I guess there are like drinks I don't usually get,

554
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: but like, aren't there like sours and fizzes and stuff

555
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: that that have egg whites in them? Yeah.

556
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: Wondred points out that the major survivors include the nineteenth

557
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: century Tom and Jerry drink. This would be not getting

558
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: into the proportions, but it's like sugar, eggs rum, cinnamon, cloves,

559
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: all spies. There's the sherry flip, which is basically egg,

560
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: sugar and sherry, and he discusses his elsewhere in the book.

561
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: But of course there's the Ramos gin Fizz, which is

562
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: pretty famous New Orleans drink that contains gin, simple syrup,

563
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: lemon juice, lime juice, egg white, heavy cream, orange flour, water,

564
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: and club soda. It's one that famously requires a great

565
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: deal of shaking. You may you may receive a dirty

566
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: look from the bartender when you order it because of

567
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: all the shaking it's going to require. Sometimes they have

568
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: to pass it off to another bartender to continue shake

569
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: shaking it. But it is also a delightful drink. But yeah,

570
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: he Wonderedge points out though, that even though we only

571
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: have so many egg drinks that kind of survived, there

572
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: was this time where where egg based drinks, egg egg

573
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: based alcoholic drinks were consumed on pretty much a daily basis,

574
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: And we're as popular as eggnog drinks are during the

575
00:32:54,760 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: holiday year round. So just imagine imagine a world in

576
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: which eggnog is stocked at the grocery store year round

577
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: to meet people's demand. For it, and everybody's having it

578
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: boozed up. Not that they bought it at the grocery store,

579
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: they made. You get my point.

580
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: That's that sounds like a magical time.

581
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: A very rich, rich time.

582
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

583
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 1: But as Paul Clark points out in the Imbibed magazine article,

584
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: elements egg cocktails, changing tastes and salmonella scares pretty much

585
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: chased raw eggs out of the bar. And this would

586
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: be kind of this would be the reason that only

587
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: so many egg drinks kind of survived this period of

588
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: time in which, on one hand, yet changing taste you

589
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: can imagine, perhaps you know their new fads and cocktails,

590
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: new ingredients are more readily available for cocktails. And then

591
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: there's this whole issue of salmonella.

592
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: Salmonella concerns, of course, remain relevant to this day, and

593
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: we'll come back to those in just a few minutes now.

594
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: Wonder Che also points out there was a great deal

595
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: of variation when it came to egg recipes, which I

596
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: imagine is going to be the case with any popular drink,

597
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: even if the recipe isn't secret. See the invention episode

598
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: we did about the My Tie for examples of this.

599
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: On both counts, if the recipe is secret, people are

600
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: going to try and recreate it. And even if the

601
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: secret it is if there's no secret, if the recipe

602
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: is well known, you're going to end up having deviations anyway.

603
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: For instance, anywhere you go today the my tie recipe,

604
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: there's no telling what a restaurant will actually serve you

605
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: if you order a my tie, even though the the

606
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: original recipe is very well known at this point, or

607
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: it's it's very easily obtained if you have a desire

608
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: to seek it out. But these regional differences in eggnog,

609
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: this would this would really make people emotional. Wonderdch Show

610
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: points out this account where there's a judge who encountered

611
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: eggnog in an inn and it didn't have whiskey enough

612
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: in it, and therefore there was this huge altercation.

613
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: Ohll yeah, I mean again, going back to stories about ends.

614
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: You don't say what time of day this is, but

615
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: this eggnog might have been his morning eggnog, which sets

616
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: the tone for the entire day. It's like, you know,

617
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: if you don't get your coffee right in the morning,

618
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: that's bad news.

619
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I don't get my heavily alcoholic eggnog in

620
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: the morning. I'm no good now. Sometimes those regional differences, though,

621
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: are going to be entirely based on what is available

622
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: to you, and a great example of this is the

623
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: Texian version of eggnog. He includes the recipe in the book.

624
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: It stems from General Thomas Green of the Army of

625
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: the Texas Republic from eighteen forty three. The recipe serves

626
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: about one hundred and sixty It calls for seven gallons

627
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: of mescal, seven gallons of donkey milk, thirty dozen eggs,

628
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: and a large loaf of sugar.

629
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: I love that sugar used to come in loaves.

630
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, if you're making eggnog for one hundred and

631
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: sixty and a number of these recipes do call for

632
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: large vats of eggnog, but this is quite a lot.

633
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, seven gallons of mezcal, seven gallons of donkey milk.

634
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: I've never tasted donkey milk. I don't even know what

635
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: that would.

636
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: Be like again two thousand and seven book, but Wondrich

637
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: mentioned that donkey milk was becoming popular at the time

638
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: in Europe due to this. I supposely it had some

639
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: health advantages to it. I don't know if that's true.

640
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still popular as an alternative milk.

641
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen it in myself in health

642
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: fied stores. But then again, I'm not really in the

643
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: market for donkey milk anyway. Well, Wondrich roughly translates the

644
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: recipe for modern drinkers in that book. He of course

645
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: says you can use cow milk instead of donkey milk,

646
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: and he also recommends grating a little chocolate on top.

647
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: So Jerry Thomas apparently chronicled six different eggnog recipes, and

648
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: Wondrich includes recipes for three of them in his book.

649
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: Roughly speaking, these are the contents of these three that

650
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: he shares. There's Baltimore eggnog, eggs sugar, nutmeg, brandy or rum, wine,

651
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: egg whites and milk. There's Eggnog Individual, which calls for sugar,

652
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: cold water, egg, cognac, Santa Cruz, rum and milk. And

653
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: then there's General Harrison's eggnog. This is ninth American President

654
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: William Henry Harrison, and this was said to be one

655
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: of his favorites. It called for egg, sugar, hard cider,

656
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: and lumps of ice. Important to note here that cider

657
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: drinking was part of his brand. His whole image that

658
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: he tried to put out was like, I'm not really

659
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: at home in this old Washington environment. I just want

660
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: to sit on the porch and drink some hard cider.

661
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: Won't you have some of my hard cider based eggnog

662
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: and vote for me?

663
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? That was him saying like, I'm just a hard

664
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: working frontiersman. I'm not one of these elites.

665
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I appreciate hardsider,

666
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: but this sounds horrific. I don't think I would I

667
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: would want any part of this. So General Harrison, no,

668
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: thank you.

669
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: General Harrison also died about some like thirty days into

670
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: his first presidential term. Yeah, he's the one who he

671
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: didn't really make it very far. And their speculation about

672
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: why he died, but one of them is that he

673
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: may have succumbed to the fact that the water supply

674
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 2: at the White House at the time was heavily contaminated

675
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 2: with raw sewage.

676
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: Huh. Interesting. I had a whole tangent for this episode

677
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: about twelfth US President Zachary Taylor, who fell ill with

678
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: a fatal illness on July fourth of eighteen fifty after

679
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: a DC fundraiser that he attended where he quote drank

680
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: freely of iced water and chilled milk. According to biographer K.

681
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: Jack Bauer in the book Zachary Taylor's Soldier, Planter Statesman

682
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: of the Old Southwest. So I've seen this described as

683
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: copious amounts of cherries and iced milk. Apparently he preferred

684
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: drinking chilled milk. That was his thing. That was the

685
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: hardest drink that Zachary Taylor was known to imbibe himself.

686
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: But I cut most of this out because he wasn't

687
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: drinking as far as I can tell, a cherry chilled

688
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: milk concoction. It was just chilled milk and then also

689
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: a lot of cherries.

690
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: And probably plenty of raw sewage.

691
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: Oh is it time for salmonella?

692
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a great transition. So eggs and salmonilla.

693
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 2: Salmonilla remains probably the main reason people have reservations about

694
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 2: raw egg based food and drinks today. Salmonilla is a

695
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: genus of bacteria named not after salmon the fish, but

696
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: after an American veterinarian named Daniel Elmer Salmon. Though it

697
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 2: was not discovered by him, it was named after him,

698
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: basically because a species of salmonella was discovered by an

699
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: assistant in a lab who worked for salmon. The assistant's

700
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 2: name was Theobald Smith, but of course the boss gets

701
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: all the glory. Some zero types of salmonella are responsible

702
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: for really serious and historically significant diseases such as typhoid fever,

703
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: but multiple types of salmonilla will result in infections of

704
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: the intestinal tract. So salmonilla infection or salmonellosis, is one

705
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: of the most common food borne illnesses, often characterized by fever, diarrhea,

706
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: severe stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, and headache. And because salmonella

707
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 2: is often transmitted through the fecal oral route, the risk

708
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 2: of contracting it is higher when people don't have access

709
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: to clean drinking water and effective sewage disposal. Though, salmonella

710
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: can also be transmitted between animals and humans, so animal

711
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: vectors such as eggs from infected chickens, can be a

712
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: major source of salmonillosis in humans as well. Now, on

713
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 2: the other hand, one thing to remember is that most

714
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: eggs are fine. Most eggs are not infected with salmonilla.

715
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: I don't know what the exact proportion is, but One

716
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: figure I saw kicking around from the two thousands was

717
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: a CDC estimate that roughly one in every twenty thousand

718
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: chicken eggs in the United States was contaminated. That number

719
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: may be different today. If so, it is probably somewhat

720
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: lower than that. But you know, I'm not saying you

721
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 2: should go about eating raw eggs. There is definitely risk there,

722
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 2: but also like the odds are pretty low that any

723
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: given egg is going to make you sick. Also, eggs

724
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: are fine if you cook them to the proper temperature

725
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: for the proper time. One hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit

726
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: will kill just about anything instantly. Also, you know, even

727
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 2: lower temperatures, if held for a sufficient amount of time,

728
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: will be enough to to basically sterilize eggs. This is

729
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: you can look up charts on the amount of time

730
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: eggs need to spend at a certain temperature in order

731
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 2: to make them safe. However, eggnog is traditionally not made

732
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: with eggs that are cooked at all, but rather with

733
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: raw ones. So is there any risk, Well, yes, obviously

734
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 2: if you are just drinking raw eggs straight up, there

735
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 2: is some risk of salmonilla infection. One example of this

736
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it happens all the time, but one example,

737
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 2: one case study I dug up with an interesting secondary finding.

738
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: This is a study published in The Lancet in nineteen

739
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: seventy five by Steer at All called person to person

740
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: spread of salmonilla typhimurium after a hospital common source outbreak.

741
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: So the abstract reads, in September nineteen seventy three, diarrhea

742
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: caused by salmonilla typhimurium developed in thirty two people in

743
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: a main hospital. Both epidemiological and microbiological evidence indicated that

744
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: raw egg beaten in milk for eggnog was responsible for

745
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: the infection. However, six patients and eight employees had not

746
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 2: had eggnog, and their illness developed after the source of

747
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: infection had been recognized and removed. Most of these people

748
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: had had direct contact with an infected patient and presumably

749
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: acquired the infection by person to person spread. It's concluded

750
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 2: that person to person spread of salmonilla typhimurium can occur

751
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: in hospitals and can be a hazard to patients and staff.

752
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: So initially a bunch of people in a hospital got

753
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: salmonella from drinking eggnog, but then those people gave secondary

754
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: infections to others who didn't even touch the noog. Also,

755
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to share another medical journal article I found

756
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: just because I thought it was very weird. This is

757
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: called eyelid absess in an eggnog drinker by Marcus and Wolverson,

758
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: published in the British Medical Journal nineteen eighty nine. Short

759
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: story is a seventy two year old man showed up

760
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: at a hospital in England with a huge abscess swelling

761
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: on his left upper eyelid, which they eventually determined had

762
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: spread to an infection of the bone in his forehead,

763
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: the bone above where his eye was. So he was

764
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: put under general anesthesia and the absess was drained. They

765
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: did a culture of the pus and it revealed the

766
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: presence of a type of salmonella. They eventually did another

767
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: procedure to take care of the swelling in the bones

768
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: of the face, and he eventually made a full recovery.

769
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: The man had no gastro intestinal symptoms, and the authors

770
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: say that there had been recent cases of salmonilla infection

771
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: related to eggs, So they asked him about his diet.

772
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: And here I'm going to read from the case report

773
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: his diet consisted of West Indian and European food, but

774
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: he said that he cooked all eggs well. When he

775
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 2: was seen in the outpatient department, he was specifically asked

776
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 2: if he drank eggnog, and he then admitted drinking it frequently,

777
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: using a recipe of raw eggs, brandy, sugar, milk, and

778
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: vanilla essence. Now, the authors say they could find no

779
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: previous evidence of this particular type of salmonella causing an

780
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 2: eyelid absess, but that there are other known cases of

781
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: this bacterial infection spreading from a gut infection originally to

782
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 2: a secondary infection elsewhere in the body, such as in

783
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: the bones, especially the long bones, especially in patients with

784
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: underlying medical conditions, and in patients over seventy years of age.

785
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: And finally, the author's write quote, from nineteen eighty one

786
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: to nineteen eighty six, the proportion of salmonilla infections caused

787
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: by salmonella, and then they're talking about a specific type here,

788
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: salmonilla teriditis rose from eleven percent to twenty eight percent.

789
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: This rise was due mainly to a rise in phage

790
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: type four infections. Transmission of this phage type has been

791
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 2: increasingly associated with poultry, and it is now known to

792
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: be transmitted in eggs. Egg born salmonilla teroiditis is destroyed

793
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: by thorough cooking. The raw egg in the eggnog may

794
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: have been the vehicle of infection. Unless specifically asked for,

795
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: a history of eggnog drinking may not emerge on dietary questioning.

796
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: But okay, now, I'm sure a lot of people out

797
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: there are wondering, Wait a minute. Okay, obviously, you know

798
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 2: you mix up a bunch of raw eggs and you

799
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: just drink that, that definitely is putting you at risk.

800
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: But if you put alcohol in the eggnog, surely that

801
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 2: would be safe. Right. Doesn't alcohol kill germs?

802
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? And we're talking a lot of alcohol in some

803
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: of these recipes.

804
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: Now, frustratingly, I have not been able to put together

805
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: a very clear answer on the exact relationship between alcohol

806
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: content and raw egg safety. Instead, I've sort of assembled

807
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: some different conflicting data points. But I'll share a few

808
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: of the results I came across. So one thing I

809
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: found is a study in the International Journal of Food

810
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: Microbiology published in nineteen ninety called Survival of pathogenic microorganisms

811
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 2: in an eggnog like product containing seven percent ethanol. This

812
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: is by notermans at all, So this is a lab test.

813
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: They say, let's make some boozy eggnog and directly inject

814
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 2: pathogenic microorganisms in there and see what happens. So they

815
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: say a liquor consisting of whole egg sacros meaning sugar

816
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: twenty five percent and ethanol of seven percent was artificially

817
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 2: contaminated with Salmonella teriditis, salmonilla, typhomurium, Staphylococcus aureus, three different

818
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 2: strains Basillis serious, and Listeria. And they say, after three

819
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 2: weeks of incubation at twenty two degrees celsius twenty two

820
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: degrees celsius is about seventy one degrees fahrenheit room temperature,

821
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: the numbers of salmonilla, Staphylococcus aureus, and of the Listeria

822
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: species they use decreased by more than three log based

823
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 2: ten units, and if I understand correctly, I believe that's

824
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 2: a ninety nine point nine percent reduction in the number

825
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: of bacteria units there. They say, under such conditions, however,

826
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: the total number of microorganisms increased three log ten units.

827
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: Then they say at four degrees celsius, so I think

828
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: this would be simulating refrigerator temperatures. The decrease of pathogenic

829
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 2: microorganisms was much slower, and a decrease of three log

830
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: based ten units was observed only after seven weeks of incubation.

831
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: So this study finds eggnog without alcohol incubated at room temperature. Yeah,

832
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: that's you allow populations of salmonilla and staff to explode.

833
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 2: But in this study, the presence of seven percent straight

834
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: ethanol significantly reduced the amount of salmonilla staff in listeria

835
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 2: over the course of three weeks at room temperature and

836
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: over the course of seven weeks at fridge temperature. However,

837
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: other microorganisms can grow.

838
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this recipe for agnog that they used

839
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: is the doctor cushion catheter right, recipe for agnog With

840
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: all of these added diseases.

841
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: You can just imagine Christopher Lee drooling over it. Well,

842
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 2: the Stanton Twins dance. But the amount of alcohol clearly matters.

843
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 2: One highly cited informal experiment. This was not published in

844
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: a scientific journal as far as I can tell, but

845
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: it was done and reported on by NPR for Science Friday.

846
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: It was done in the late two thousands by microbiologists

847
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: at the at Rockefeller University named Vince Faschetti and Ray

848
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: and Shuck and it was covered on Science Friday. And

849
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: apparently these researchers used a recipe that the staff at

850
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: the university would make every year, which originally traced back

851
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: to the great American microbiologist Rebecca Lancefield. So this is

852
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: her original eggnog recipe. She had worked at Rockfiller University

853
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 2: decades earlier. Apparent they're still making her eggnog years after

854
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: she passed away. And the recipe includes raw eggs, but

855
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: also cream, sugar, and a lot of hard liquor. The

856
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: liquors in this version are Bourbon and rum NPR reported

857
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 2: that the alcohol concentration of the final drink was about

858
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: twenty percent. And the way they would do it is

859
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: every year they'd make it before Thanksgiving and then enjoy

860
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: it around Christmas time. So it had an incubation period

861
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: in the refrigerator of about six weeks. So for this experiment,

862
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 2: the researchers made their usual noog, but they deliberately spiked

863
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 2: it once again with salmonilla. Just you can watch video

864
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 2: of this. They're just injecting this orange juice into the eggs.

865
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: It's disgusting. They say. They put in the amount of

866
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: salmonella you would expect from including about somewhere between one

867
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: and ten contaminated eggs, and then they took samples at

868
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: various stages of preparation and incubation to see what grew

869
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 2: over the course of the next three weeks. So egg

870
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: plus salmonilla with no alcohol, that's just it formed a

871
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: solid mat of salmon just huge boom, millions of bacteria. Disgusting.

872
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: Hey, you can need your spoon in your poset for

873
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: that one ugh.

874
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: Egg plus salmonilla plus alcohol with the sample taken immediately

875
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 2: after mixing give you a modest reduction, but still plenty

876
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: of salmonilla growth. This would still absolutely make you sick.

877
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: Egg plus salmonilla plus alcohol, but one day after mixing,

878
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: still plenty of salmonilla, but less than the one taken

879
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: right after mixing. One week later there was noticeably less

880
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: bacterial growth, but they said still probably enough to make

881
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: you sick. But then the sample from three weeks later

882
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: there's nothing, no bacterial growth at all. So somewhere between

883
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: one week and three weeks this batch went from biohazard

884
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 2: to presumably safe. Though I noticed that the Science Friday

885
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: report made a joke about like the researchers themselves are

886
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: joking about this. They said, you know, we could really

887
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: commit to our result and just drink it, but maybe not,

888
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 2: which makes sense right, like why risk it? And that

889
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: kind of spirit comes through in a lot of the

890
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 2: other sources I've seen talking about whether alcohol will render

891
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: your eggnog safe, because it seems clear there's evidence that

892
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: at least in some cases, even if you got unlucky

893
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: enough in got a contaminated egg, given enough alcohol and

894
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 2: an enough time, the noog would probably be safe. But

895
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: there are a lot of variables here, and so it

896
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: seems like a bunch of public health and food safety

897
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: sources are still cautious. They're still kind of cagy about

898
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: giving the green light on this, and they default to

899
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 2: saying that if you want to be sure you're safe,

900
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: you should use pasteurized eggs from a carton which have

901
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: been rendered safe by preheating in the facility where they

902
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 2: were packaged, or they also recommend cooking the eggs. Basically,

903
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: like sources citing experts at the FDA or the USDA

904
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 2: say that you can't always count on alcohol to kill

905
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: potential bacterial content of raw eggs, and if you want

906
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: to be safe, the eggs should be cooked. You can

907
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 2: do this by like mixing the eggs and milk together

908
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 2: and gently bringing up to one hundred and sixty degrees

909
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 2: fahrenheit while stirring to kill any possible bacterial content before

910
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: you add the other ingredients. So personally, I don't know

911
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 2: exactly where we are left here. I will say it

912
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: looks like some experiments do show that alcohol content will

913
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 2: at least often, maybe not always, but will at least

914
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 2: often neutralize the main bacteria that people are worried about,

915
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: meaning salmonilla, given enough alcohol and enough time. And I

916
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: will say that I also, just speaking for myself, not

917
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 2: giving advice to other people, have personally drunk eggnog made

918
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: in this way with raw eggs but with lots of

919
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 2: alcohol content, and personally I felt fine about it. But

920
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: it also looks like some experts still have concerns that

921
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 2: this might not always work, and caution that if you

922
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: want to make sure you're safe, you should cook your

923
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: eggs or use a pasteurized product.

924
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: I mean, this is also enough to make one rethink

925
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: eating raw cookie dough and so forth.

926
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, well, it's true, I guess of

927
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 2: anything with raw eggs in it, like, there is always

928
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: some small amount of risk, you know, some small proportion

929
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,320
Speaker 2: of eggs out there are going to be infected. Most

930
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: eggs are fine, but some are going to have some

931
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: in them, So you're always running that risk. And I guess,

932
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: I guess some of the difficulty comes from not just

933
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: whether or not you will accept the risk, but from

934
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: not knowing exactly how risky it is. Like you you

935
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: can't come up, you don't have a number, you know,

936
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: to say like, Okay, I have this percent chance of

937
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: getting salmonila if I do this instead, you just have

938
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 2: a vague sense that I have some small chance and

939
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what that chance is.

940
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: But any way, that's It's the holiday season. It's about

941
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: it's about thinking about your your chances of survival, a

942
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: winter festivity that it is supposed to get you through

943
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: the darkest portion of the year and hopefully see about

944
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: the resurrection of the living world.

945
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 2: That's quite beautifully put. But on the other hand, I'll

946
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: just say, like, you know, if if you're not sure, yeah,

947
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: just cook your eggs or just use the past your

948
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: eyes thing I mean it's fine now.

949
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: Last year, unstuff to blow your mind. We did an

950
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: entire episode looking at the major reward leg lamp from

951
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: a Christmas Story, the nineteen eighties holiday classic film, and

952
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, looking at this leg shaped lamp and finding

953
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: predecessors to this in the ancient world. In a similar way,

954
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: I would like to at the close of this episode

955
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 1: on eggnog, consider the nineteen eighty nine holiday film Christmas Vacation,

956
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 1: which of course starred a great cast Chevy Chase, Beverly Dangelo,

957
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: Randy Quaid, among others. But there are at least a

958
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: couple of key scenes in this movie in which the

959
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: Griswold family drinks eggnog from glass goblets made in the

960
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: likeness of the Wally World moose. These are you can

961
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: actually buy these now, this is an actual product. But

962
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: in the movie they are these these little glass goblets

963
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: and they have big glass moose antlers on either side,

964
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: and there's a big droopy moose snout on the front.

965
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: Hold it by the ear and you sip your eggnog

966
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: that way, or you gulp it, as it happens to

967
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: be the case in some of the scenes.

968
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 2: I imagine the moose face has to be facing out

969
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: or else the snout would sort of prevent you from

970
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: from getting it to your lips. Yeah.

971
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd have to hold the glass in just the

972
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: right way. It's a ceremonial vessel. And I started looking

973
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: around as thinking, I don't know, I don't know if

974
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: there's going to be something in the ancient world that

975
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: matches up with this. But luckily, once more eighties holiday

976
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: movie prop design is in line with the manufacture of

977
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: artifacts in the ancient world. I would like to discuss

978
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: the ryton. This is generally spelled r hytn and it

979
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: is a style of head cup that appears in various

980
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 1: forms throughout the ancient world, according to Maha Abd el

981
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: Maghwud al Kadi in Forms and functions of rytons in

982
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: Ptotomaic Egypt. According to this author, they were likely Persian

983
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: in origin and were particularly pop they're during the Acaimenid

984
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: dynasty of five point fifty through three point thirty PCE.

985
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: You can look up images of the ryton and the

986
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: various versions of the ryton that appear in different times

987
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: and different cultures. One can roughly compare these to a

988
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: drinking horn like a you know, the hollowed horn of

989
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: a beast, But the design and function here is a

990
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: little more involved. So imagine a drinking horn in which

991
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: the slender part of the horn, the tapering part of

992
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: the horn, is in the likeness of an animal's head,

993
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: or in the like the front half of an animal.

994
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: And we don't have time in this episode to really

995
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: dig into the variation and the different cultural takes in

996
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: this episode. But again, this would have been a realistic

997
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 1: drinking vessel. This would not be something you would bust out,

998
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: I would imagine for your just everyday consumption. This would

999
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: be for ceremonial drinking. And there are essentially two types

1000
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: of ryton. In one form, you drink from the slender

1001
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: part of the ryton it above one's head or roughly

1002
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, above one's head, or at least parallel with

1003
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: one's head, by either twin handles on the side, or

1004
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: from some other kind of handle that's a fixed to

1005
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: the object, or even from sort of the horn itself.

1006
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: In other forms, one drinks from the wide portion of

1007
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: the ryton, so the whole thing is more like a

1008
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: traditional goblet, except many of these designs would require you know,

1009
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: gripping by the horns or by the or the antlers

1010
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: that are on it. If there are antlers on it

1011
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: and you might not be able to set it down,

1012
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: it might not have a bottom to it.

1013
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: Wow, well that almost suggests a certain way to drink.

1014
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again this would be highly ritual. So it's

1015
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: not about setting your drink aside and then doing other things.

1016
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: You're not going to do any paperwork. This is probably

1017
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: part of some ritual. I don't know. You can easily

1018
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: imagine some sort of warrior's feast, et cetera.

1019
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 2: Right, you can't drink it while you're podcasting. It's maybe

1020
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: to drink while people stand around you chanting drink.

1021
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: Right. So, there are various beautiful examples of the ryton,

1022
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: but the one that really brought to my mind the

1023
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: Wally World mug is the Stagshead Ryton, dating to four

1024
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: hundred BCE. This is a silver artifact that actually made

1025
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: headlines just last year due to its three point five

1026
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: million dollar appraisal value and its presence among stolen antiquities

1027
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: that were found in the possession of billionaire Michael Steinhardt.

1028
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: You can look up articles on that again from just

1029
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: last year. The item was apparently eluded from a museum

1030
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: in Turkey originally, but I'm unsure exactly when the looting

1031
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: occurred other than sometime during the twentieth century during a

1032
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: time of unrest, which that only narrows it down so

1033
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: much concerning the twentieth century, though, it does seem to

1034
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: be of ancient Greek manufacture, somewhere in the region of

1035
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: the Black Sea, probably from the fifth century BCE. And

1036
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: with this one, you'd apparently drink from the stag's lower

1037
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: lip while holding it aloft, though not by the antlers,

1038
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: as is visible in many photos of this particular artifact.

1039
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: There's this curved handle behind the neck. Oh, I see it. Yeah,

1040
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,439
Speaker 1: So the question remains, is the Wally World mug a ryton? No,

1041
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: it's not. No, it's not. Yes, it's first of all,

1042
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: it's not horn shaped. It also doesn't You don't drink

1043
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: from the moose's lips, so that alone wouldn't disqualify it

1044
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: from being a ryton, as we previously noted, though I've

1045
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: included a picture for you, Joe, of a ryton that

1046
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: would involve you drinking from the wide portion as opposed

1047
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: to the beast lips. You can sort of see, so

1048
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: this one would be very much a situation where you

1049
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: have this kind of like I don't know, bronze or

1050
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: golden chalice, and you wouldn't be able to set it

1051
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: down because instead of having a flat surface, flat bottom

1052
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: on the bottom of your goblet, there is like the

1053
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: head of a ram down there. Yeah, so you'd have

1054
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: to lay it on its side, I guess, in which

1055
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: case you would either spill what you were drinking or

1056
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: you would have to have consumed it all.

1057
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: Once again, the medium is the message here. This is

1058
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: technology that shows that by necessity, shows you a way

1059
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 2: to use it.

1060
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. However, I will say the Wally World mug is

1061
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: the likeness of a moosehead. It is the likeness of

1062
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: an animal's head. It also is a ceremonial drinking vessel. Clearly,

1063
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: the Grizwolds are not drinking out of these year round.

1064
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: They're busting them out for the holidays. And just as

1065
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: some of these artifacts such as the stag were decorated

1066
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: with warrior images and images of battle, and we can

1067
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: imagine the ceremonies they involve, probably aligned with some sort

1068
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: of warrior ethos. We do see Clark Griswold drinking copious

1069
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: amounts of nog while working cousin Eddie up for violence,

1070
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: though curiously I had to go back. I was imagining this,

1071
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: remembering this scene incorrectly, the scene where Clark Griswold is

1072
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: throwing back a whole bunch of eggnog and talking about

1073
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: how he wishes somebody would kidnap his boss. He's curiously

1074
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: not drinking from one of the moose goblets in this scene.

1075
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: Oh so, I don't know. I don't know what the

1076
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: reason for that is. You'd think you'd want him drinking

1077
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: out of the moose. Maybe it's just because it's harder

1078
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: to hold. I don't know.

1079
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 2: Maybe it's to show in a subtle way that Clark

1080
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: is actually coldly calculating in the scene, and he's not

1081
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 2: as drunk as it would suggest.

1082
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a whole topic for another time, trying to

1083
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: figure out Clark Griswold. How do we feel about Clark Griswold,

1084
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: about his motivations and his desires in Christmas Vacation.

1085
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 2: Clark is neutral evil cousin cousin Randy Quaid, I'd say

1086
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: chaotic neutral.

1087
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. All right, So again, not really

1088
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: a Ryton in Christmas Vacation. But I think we might

1089
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: well imagine a scene from an alternate dimension in which

1090
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: there's a scene in Christmas Vacation in which Clark Griswold

1091
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: holds aloft the mighty Wally the moose right on this

1092
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: big glass moose head, or perhaps it's silver in this scenario,

1093
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: a big silver moose head. Perhaps you grip it by

1094
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: the antlers, and he's allowing cousin Eddie to then drink

1095
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: nourishing noog from the lips of the moose before he

1096
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: sends him out into glorious battle against the enemies of Christmas.

1097
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 2: Bravo.

1098
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: All right, that's all I have.

1099
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 2: God bless us everyone.

1100
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: Yes, I will say also, I fortunately finished my eggnog

1101
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: before we got to the draining of abscesses, So hopefully

1102
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: that calibrates the podcast episode for anyone out there who's like, oh, well,

1103
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: Rob's having an eggnog, I should have an eggnog for

1104
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: this listening experience. I hope that you too, were finished

1105
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: before the abscesses were drained.

1106
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 2: Why are you saying that, Rob? Are you saying that?

1107
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 2: Otherwise it would suggest the mental image that your glass

1108
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 2: of creamy mixture is what's out coming out of.

1109
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 1: The Yes, that it is a goblet of holiday pus,

1110
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: which you might be drinking from the glass ahead of

1111
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: a moose, which doesn't help, or from the lips of

1112
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: a moose right on.

1113
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 2: I guess Merry Christmas everybody.

1114
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, we're going to go and close it

1115
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone out

1116
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: there if you have. I mean a lot of people

1117
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: out there are going to have some sort of holiday

1118
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: tradition involving some manner of eggnog. We didn't really have

1119
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: time to get into all the variations, but I know

1120
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: there are some. I think I've had like a Puerto

1121
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: Rican variation of eggnog before that was quite delightful. There's

1122
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: so many different regional variations, family variations. Please write in.

1123
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your take on all of this.

1124
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: In the meantime, we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow

1125
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: Your Mind is a science podcast with our core episodes

1126
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays we do a short

1127
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: form artifact or monster fact. On Mondays we do a

1128
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: listener mail episode, and on Fridays we set aside most

1129
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: serious concerns and just talk about a weird film on

1130
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: Weird House Cinema.

1131
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 2: Huge thanks to our audio producer Max Williams. If you

1132
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

1133
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 2: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

1134
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 2: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

1135
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 2: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

1136
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 2: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio.

1137
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

1138
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to

1139
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.