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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome in Friday edition Clay Travis Buck Sexton Show. Buck

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Speaker 2: has the day off, which means you'll be rolling with

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Speaker 2: me headed into the weekend over the next three hours.

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Speaker 2: Right now, we are scheduled to be joined by my

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Speaker 2: friend from the Great State of Texas, Representative Chip Roy,

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Speaker 2: to talk about the house speaker debate and the ensuing

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Speaker 2: fallout at one we will probably also talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about his longhorns and his wives Texas A and

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Speaker 2: m Aggie's as that is a big rivalry for those

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Speaker 2: of you in the Lone Star State.

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Speaker 3: That's soon.

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Speaker 2: We'll return next year when both are going to be

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Speaker 2: in the SEC. But I'm headed down to the Great

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Speaker 2: State of Texas tomorrow for the Alabama against Texas A

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Speaker 2: and M game. There'll also be a big game going

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Speaker 2: on up in Dallas between Texas and Oklahoma. As many

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Speaker 2: of you get ready for what should be a fun

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Speaker 2: fall weekend, We've got a lot to hit you with.

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Speaker 2: During the course of the program, will continue to update

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Speaker 2: you on the fight for who should be the house speaker.

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Speaker 2: As we predicted on this show, I think two days ago,

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Speaker 2: certainly yesterday, Donald Trump has endorsed Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio.

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Speaker 2: You have heard Jim Jordan on this show for years now.

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Speaker 2: He's a friend to both Buck and myself. I think

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Speaker 2: he would do a fabulous job as Speaker of the House.

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Speaker 2: I said that I think he's the right choice because

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Speaker 2: I think he can bring together the Maga element and

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Speaker 2: the more moderate elements of this Republican Party and help

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Speaker 2: to fight for the things that matter against the Biden administration.

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Speaker 3: And so we may even hear from Jim today. I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: He's been obviously busy, as you can imagine, trying to

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Speaker 2: corral votes, but I was texting with him earlier his staff.

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Speaker 2: We may hear from him today. If we don't, I'm

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Speaker 2: confident we'll hear from him next week. But we'll talk

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Speaker 2: with Chip Roy about the latest in the battle there

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Speaker 2: in the primary. Ron DeSantis has finally taken off the

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Speaker 2: gloves and he is throwing haymaker punches at Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 3: Are they going to land? Will they matter?

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Speaker 2: We will discuss that in a conjunction with what I

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Speaker 2: think is a really fascinating motion that was filed by

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Speaker 2: Trump in Washington, d C. That I think has some

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Speaker 2: legitimate basis in the law to potentially knock out the

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Speaker 2: criminal charges against him related to what he did while

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Speaker 2: he was president of the United States based on past precedent.

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Speaker 2: We will discuss that as well, but I want to

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Speaker 2: start with a story that I believe goes to the

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Speaker 2: heart of incentives and how when you make bad incentives,

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Speaker 2: you create bad outcomes. And you've heard Bucket me both

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Speaker 2: talk about the issue at the United States Southern border

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Speaker 2: and the reason why so many people are crossing the

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Speaker 2: southern border ultimately boils down to two incentives that exist that,

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Speaker 2: so long as they exist, are going to continue to

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Speaker 2: drive people to leave their countries and try to come here.

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Speaker 4: One.

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Speaker 2: You can make twenty thirty forty times as much money

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Speaker 2: if you leave the country that you are in right

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Speaker 2: now and make it to the United States. There are

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Speaker 2: a lot of you listening to me right now that

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Speaker 2: like your jobs. If you could make twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: more money doing a similar job, many of you would say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm leaving. An extra ten thousand dollars a year would

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Speaker 2: make a tremendous difference for you and your family. You

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Speaker 2: would go to a new job. The reason you would

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Speaker 2: go is the incentive of more money. Almost every single

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Speaker 2: person listening to me right now, if I told you

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Speaker 2: that you could make twenty times as much money as

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Speaker 2: you make now if you would go to Canada, almost

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Speaker 2: all of you would go. I think there are very

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Speaker 2: few of you that would say, you know what, I'm

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Speaker 2: so happy where I am right now in my job

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Speaker 2: that I will turn down twenty times as much money

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Speaker 2: to go to Canada and do a similar potential job.

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Speaker 3: So jobs is one incentive.

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Speaker 2: The other, as we have talked about, is birthright citizenship.

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Speaker 2: If you lived in a country without basic human rights

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Speaker 2: and you wanted to have a family, and you knew

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Speaker 2: that if you had a son or daughter in the

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Speaker 2: United States, that son or daughter would immediately become an American,

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Speaker 2: you would be very incentivized also to try to come

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Speaker 2: to the United States. Both of those incentives create the

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Speaker 2: seven million plus illegals that have then continued across our

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Speaker 2: southern border, and certainly failure to stop anyone from coming

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Speaker 2: into the country. Removing barriers, not building walls, all of

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Speaker 2: that provides even more of an incentive people to come

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Speaker 2: because the risk of not getting in is comparatively low.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we know that goes on at the border. I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about this other story.

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Speaker 2: That I have been discussing that I bet a lot

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Speaker 2: of you have not paid much attention to. There's a

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Speaker 2: head football coach was a head football coach at Michigan

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Speaker 2: State University. It's a guy by the name of mel Tucker,

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Speaker 2: and I think his story is emblematic of the incentive

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Speaker 2: structure that was created in the wake of the Brett

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Speaker 2: Kavanaugh hearings and the me too movement, and it is

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Speaker 2: the hashtag Believe All Women. I didn't really hear much

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Speaker 2: about that hashtag until Brett Kavanaugh was framed as he

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Speaker 2: attempted to rise to become a Supreme Court justice. All

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Speaker 2: of the allegations, and I say this as a lawyer

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Speaker 2: who has done criminal law, I dove into, I analyzed.

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Speaker 3: I know Buck felt the same way.

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Speaker 2: They were all complete and total crap, and they were

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Speaker 2: a political hit job on Brett Cavanaugh. You can say

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Speaker 2: even that was a natural outgrowth of the political hit

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Speaker 2: job that was put in place that they went after

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Speaker 2: Clarence Thomas on. But it really went to the next

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Speaker 2: level because I don't remember during the Anita Hill hearings

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Speaker 2: anybody trying to argue hashtag believe all women. In fact,

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who was then the Chairman of the Senate

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Speaker 2: Judiciary Committee, to my best recollection, actually gave a somewhat

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Speaker 2: supportive as Democrats go, a version of that hearing for

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Speaker 2: Clarence Thomas that was in a different time. Now, Joe Biden,

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Speaker 2: of course, would say that Clarence Thomas was guilty the

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Speaker 2: moment he was accused, despite the fact that Joe Biden

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Speaker 2: himself is credibly accused of sexual assault to a far

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Speaker 2: greater degree than almost anyone in the world of politics,

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Speaker 2: and certainly anyone who's sitting on the Supreme Court today. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about Tara Reid. But what happened when you

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Speaker 2: say believe all women? The argument is, well, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of women out there who are sexually assaulted and they

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Speaker 2: don't come forward. And certainly I believe if you've been

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Speaker 2: a victim of violent crime you should always come forward.

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Speaker 2: But when you say believe all women, you are by

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Speaker 2: default saying don't believe men, and you are therefore telling

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Speaker 2: larger segments of the American public, many of whom are

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Speaker 2: honest but also many of whom are dishonest, that if

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Speaker 2: you tell a story, the media is going to be

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Speaker 2: predisposed to believe you and disbelieve the other person solely

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Speaker 2: based on your gender. And that's I believe what's happened

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Speaker 2: at Michigan State University yesterday. You might have heard me

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Speaker 2: mention this on this show, but let me give you

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Speaker 2: a rough synopsis of what happened. Michigan State then head

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Speaker 2: football coach Mel Tucker, who has a massive nine and

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Speaker 2: a half million dollar contract, got a ninety five million

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Speaker 2: dollar I believe it was ten year contract to coach

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Speaker 2: football at Michigan State University, one of the elite Big

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Speaker 2: ten football institutions and the country. Football is a big

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Speaker 2: deal there. If you're not a football fan, understand that.

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Speaker 2: So Mel Tucker hires a woman named Brenda Tracy to

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Speaker 2: come talk to his football team about the importance of

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Speaker 2: not committing sexual assault and not putting yourself in positions

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Speaker 2: where you could be accused of committing sexual assault. Basically,

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Speaker 2: he teaches his team wants to teach his team how

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Speaker 2: young men should conduct themselves to make sure that they

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Speaker 2: are avoiding of trouble with women while they are members

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Speaker 2: of the Michigan State football team. This woman, Brenda Tracy,

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Speaker 2: comes and speaks. I believe once spring game at Michigan State,

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Speaker 2: then they develop a relationship. Mel Tucker, by his own descriptions,

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Speaker 2: is mayor, but is basically staying with his wife until

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Speaker 2: the kids are old enough to graduate from high school.

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Speaker 3: That's public, that's out there.

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Speaker 2: I don't like to dive into anybody's own marriage, but

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Speaker 2: it's known that he and his wife are basically partners

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Speaker 2: in raising their kids until they become graduate.

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Speaker 3: From high school, and then they're going to go in

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Speaker 3: their own own way.

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Speaker 2: My understanding is they sleep in different bedrooms, they have

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Speaker 2: limited interaction, but they want to raise their kids to

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Speaker 2: go to adulthood, and then potentially they're going to go

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Speaker 2: in different directions. Again, I don't like to get into marriages,

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Speaker 2: but everybody wants to dive into this marriage because of

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Speaker 2: the situation that is ensued. Both he and Brenda Tracy

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Speaker 2: seem to.

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Speaker 3: Be interested in each other.

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Speaker 2: They had, according to established record, twenty seven phone calls

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Speaker 2: that lasted more than thirty minutes, twenty seven of them.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how many of you out there have

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Speaker 2: engaged in twenty seven phone calls of over thirty minutes

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Speaker 2: with anyone in the country. I would submit that that's

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Speaker 2: fairly rare. The younger you are, the less likely it is.

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Speaker 2: I actually think I have not had twenty seven to

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Speaker 2: thirty minute plus phone calls with anyone in the last year.

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Speaker 2: Certainly not my wife, certainly not my mom, not even

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Speaker 2: the people who are closest to me. I communicate primarily

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Speaker 2: by text. Uh and you know, short phone calls. They

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Speaker 2: were interested in each other. One particular phone call lasted

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Speaker 2: thirty six minutes, Brenda Tracy. Brenda Tracy came out and said,

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Speaker 2: after that thirty six well, let me tell you what

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Speaker 2: happened on that thirty six minute phone call. Both parties

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that phone sex occurred. Thirty six minute phone call.

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Speaker 2: Phone sex occurs. After that phone call. At some point

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Speaker 2: in time, mel Tucker decided, you know what, this relationship

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Speaker 2: has gone too far.

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Speaker 3: It's gotten too personal.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to cut this relationship off, and he decided

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Speaker 2: not to have this woman come talk to his team again.

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Speaker 2: He canceled the speaking engagement. When that happened, Brenda Tracy

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Speaker 2: decided that the phone sex, months after it happened, had

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Speaker 2: actually been non consensual. This thirty six minute phone call

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Speaker 2: that happened. She said she froze and she couldn't hang up,

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Speaker 2: and she turned Mel Tucker in to Michigan State University,

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Speaker 2: and Michigan State University fired him, and they said, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to pay you the eighty million dollars remaining

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Speaker 2: on your contract. Now, I said, you might have heard

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Speaker 2: me talk about it on the show because I thought

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Speaker 2: it was so emblematic. I said, this is this, This

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Speaker 2: story on its face doesn't make sense. You can't have

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Speaker 2: a thirty six minute phone call, claim that you frozen

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Speaker 2: couldn't hang up, and then retroactively months later say you

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Speaker 2: didn't consent to phone sex and demand that the head

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Speaker 2: football coach get fired.

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Speaker 3: What really happened, I think is she was I told

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Speaker 3: you all this.

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Speaker 2: I think she wanted a serious relationship with him, he

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Speaker 2: decided to cut it off. She went fatal attraction, turned

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Speaker 2: him in and tried to make him pay.

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Speaker 3: Michigan State fired him.

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Speaker 2: When we come back, the text messages came out yesterday.

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Speaker 2: There is now one hundred percent evidence that Brenda Tracy

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Speaker 2: made up this entire story because she wanted to get

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Speaker 2: paid her own text messages make this case. Mel Tucker

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Speaker 2: has still lost his job. We've also got the Trevor

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Speaker 2: Bauer situation. I think this is all directly connected to

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Speaker 2: Brett Kavanaugh and the incentives that we build when we

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Speaker 2: say believe all women men are liars. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: open up phone lines because I would like to hear

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Speaker 2: from people. Eight hundred two eight two two eight eight two.

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Speaker 2: I think this is a big story because it's your nephews.

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Speaker 2: They are being accused of sexual assault and they're having

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Speaker 2: kangaroo courts on college campuses everywhere. They get no opportunity

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Speaker 2: to defend themselves, and they are being roundly condemned, oftentimes

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Speaker 2: when they are, as is the case with mel Tucker

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent innocent. What happens when incentives are broken?

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Speaker 2: What can we learn from our failures? And why are

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Speaker 2: so few people willing to speak out and tell the truth.

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Speaker 2: This is a big story I want to dive into

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Speaker 2: here right off the top of the show today, Buck,

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Speaker 2: We'll be back on Monday. Contrary to rumor, he's not

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Speaker 2: playing hooky by spending the day at the gun range.

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Speaker 2: He's got a mantis X so he doesn't need to

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Speaker 2: go there to practice. MANTISX a firearms training system no ammo,

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Speaker 2: all electronic way to improve your shooting accuracy without leaving

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Speaker 2: the house. It attaches to your firearm like a weapon light,

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Speaker 2: then connects to an app on your phone. Mantis X

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Speaker 2: gives you data driven, real time feedback on your technique

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Speaker 2: as it guides you through drills and courses. Nearly everyone

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Speaker 2: improves their shooting accuracy within the first twenty minutes. It's

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Speaker 2: so effective it's now being used by members of our

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Speaker 2: Marine Corps, Army and our special forces. The MANTISAX is

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Speaker 2: a must have for every gun owner. It's military grade

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Speaker 2: technology at an affordable price. Start improving your shooting accuracy today.

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Speaker 2: Get yours at mantisex dot com. That's m a n

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Speaker 2: tisx dot com.

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Speaker 1: Clay Travis at buck Sexton Making Sense in an Insane world.

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Speaker 2: Walking again out number two Clay Travis buck Sexton show

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Speaker 2: Buck is out today.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back with me on Monday.

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Speaker 2: I'll be up by the Way in New York City

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Speaker 2: on Monday doing the Tunnel the Towers golf event helping

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Speaker 2: to raise money for that fabulous organization. And we'll have

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Speaker 2: Senator Ran Paul in office with us. By the way,

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Speaker 2: for those of you listening to Danielle there, I wanted

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Speaker 2: her to be able to get her full story in.

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Speaker 2: We ran right up against the end of the hour.

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Speaker 2: She's going to join us at two thirty eastern to

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Speaker 2: react to the mel Tucker discussion, the Brenda Tracy lies

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Speaker 2: that have cost mel Tucker his job Michigan State. I'll

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Speaker 2: also go ahead and reiterate if you want to weigh in.

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Speaker 2: I want to be able to take some of your

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Speaker 2: calls on this. Obviously it is Friday. We take many

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Speaker 2: calls on Friday, eight hundred and two two two eight

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Speaker 2: eight two. That's still to come. Joe Biden has spoken,

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Speaker 2: and well, he didn't make much sense, as typically happens

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Speaker 2: whenever Biden speaks. We'll have some cuts for that going

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Speaker 2: forward with you, but I want to bring in my

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Speaker 2: friend Chip Roy now from the Great State of Texas,

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Speaker 2: talk about the situation in the House of Representatives and

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Speaker 2: more before we get there. Though your wife, Sanagi, you

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Speaker 2: are a Texas Longhorn fan. Texas plays against Oklahoma this weekend,

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Speaker 2: A and M plays Alabama next year. A and M

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Speaker 2: and Texas will reignite the rivalry that is one of

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Speaker 2: the best in all of sports.

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Speaker 3: Is that a good thing or a bad thing for

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Speaker 3: your marriage?

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Speaker 4: Well, Clay, great to be on and I'd much rather,

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, of all the weeks for this speaker

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Speaker 4: situation to occur, it has to be the week when

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Speaker 4: we've got Tech, as you said, A and m Alabama

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Speaker 4: and OU Texas and so I'm going to get to

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Speaker 4: go to neither game, but I'll be able to go

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Speaker 4: with my kids to four h and show their goats

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Speaker 4: and all that, which is good. But look, the rivalry

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Speaker 4: is long overdue to come back. It's been this is

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Speaker 4: fifteen years now of just an absolute, I mean disaster

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Speaker 4: to not have that rivalry game. But I'm excited about

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Speaker 4: both the games this weekend. Texas ore you, I mean,

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Speaker 4: oh you. I think it's going to be out for

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Speaker 4: revenge after getting swatted last year. What was the score

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Speaker 4: forty something.

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Speaker 3: To seven forty nine zip?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, beat down, And say, look, I think it's gonna

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Speaker 4: depend a lot on Texas running running game. You know

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Speaker 4: what Brooks had what two hundred and I don't know,

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Speaker 4: twenty yards or something against Kansas last week, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the the Texas is is better this year OHU is better,

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Speaker 4: So I think it's going to be a good competitive game.

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Speaker 4: But Texas defense is a lot better, and we'll see

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Speaker 4: what happens on the line. I think are our defensive

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Speaker 4: line on the interior is going to match up well

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Speaker 4: against so you on the interior, So we'll see. I

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Speaker 4: think it's gonna be but who wants it more? And

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Speaker 4: you know A and M Alabama, It's going to depend

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Speaker 4: a lot on the on the backup quarterback there at

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Speaker 4: A and M. Because what's his name? What is that?

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Speaker 4: Max Johnson? I think whatever the backup is, so that's right,

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Speaker 4: sing uh that that'll be an interesting one. What happens

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Speaker 4: down there. I think that's gonna be whether whether Alabama's

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Speaker 4: trying to show up and demonstrate they're still legit, or

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Speaker 4: whether A and M's trying to, you know, overcome some

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Speaker 4: of the obstacles they've had. So we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 3: Solid analysis there. I'll be an aggui Land can't wait.

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Speaker 2: We've got a great affiliate down there carrying the show

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Speaker 2: every single day, long time rush supporters as well, so

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Speaker 2: I look forward to seeing a lot of BBAMA and

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Speaker 2: Aggie fans. I'll have my kids and my wife with me.

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Speaker 2: All right, Chip, Let's let's dive right into what's going

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Speaker 2: on here on Capitol Hill. I believe we have two

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Speaker 2: announced candidacies. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Jim

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Speaker 2: Jordan and Steve Scalise have both said that they are

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Speaker 2: open to being the next Speaker of the House.

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Speaker 3: They're going to run for it.

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Speaker 2: Do you suspect that this process will be relatively smooth?

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Speaker 3: Is it going to be a mess?

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Speaker 2: Take us into Capitol Hill and what's been going on

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Speaker 2: since Kevin McCarthy was removed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: First of all, look, I mean both Steas Scales and

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Speaker 4: Jordan are friends of mine. They both are fully announced candidates.

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Speaker 4: You know. Look, I've not publicly said to I'm going

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Speaker 4: to support yet. I will tip my hat here. You know,

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Speaker 4: I've got a long standing friendship with Jim. The first

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Speaker 4: thing I ever did when I was a congressman elect

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Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen was nominate Jim for a minority leader

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Speaker 4: against Kevin. Actually, but I was one of the ones

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Speaker 4: last week who I opposed the motion of akate. I

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Speaker 4: did not think that was the right course of action.

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Speaker 4: I thought Kevin had done a pretty good job trying

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Speaker 4: to include all of us. I didn't like all the results.

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Speaker 4: I thought we needed to do a better job on

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Speaker 4: spending and some other issues. But I didn't think we

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Speaker 4: should take that road. But we did, and there now

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Speaker 4: we're in the process of figuring it out. Jim's running,

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Speaker 4: Steve's running. We're gonna have a conference call to Jim

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Speaker 4: this afternoon, and then you know, I'm going to listen

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Speaker 4: to that, talk to another candidate or too, Kevin hearn

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Speaker 4: is thinking about running, and then I'll probably, you know,

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Speaker 4: make my public position later this afternoon about what I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna do on endorsements. But here's the bottom line is,

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Speaker 4: you know, Jim is a solid conservative, Steve's a great guy.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna have to make a decision as a conference,

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Speaker 4: and we're gonna have a letter today that's going to

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Speaker 4: the conference chairwoman at least to find it as to

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Speaker 4: how we're gonna make our choice. There's a lot of

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Speaker 4: us that say that, Look, we've gone to the floor

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Speaker 4: a number of times. Let's figure this out behind closed doors.

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Speaker 4: Let's get two hundred and eighteen of us united behind

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Speaker 4: a new candidate. Let's rally around that speaker, and let's

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Speaker 4: get the job done. We've got to finish the appropriations bills,

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Speaker 4: we've got to secure the border, we got to check

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Speaker 4: this whole blank check to Ukraine stuff, and we've got

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Speaker 4: to make sure we do our job and hold the

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Speaker 4: line on spending overall, so and push back on the

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Speaker 4: Biden administration. So that's where I think we're going to head.

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Speaker 4: But there's gonna be a lot of work over the

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Speaker 4: next week because look, it's hard to get it's hard

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Speaker 4: to get two hundred and eighteen to agree on anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that either Jim Jordan or Steve Scalisee

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Speaker 2: can get to two eighteen? And just to build off

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Speaker 2: what you said in your ideal world, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: you'd have a behind the scenes kind of closed door vote,

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Speaker 2: see what the tally is, and then whichever side emerges

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Speaker 2: victorious would be the nominee. The other side would sort

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Speaker 2: of graciously say, okay, I'm not going to stand, and

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Speaker 2: then by the time you get out back on the

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Speaker 2: House floor, everybody's already made their decision. Instead of having

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Speaker 2: sort of the dirty laundry aired in public. Is that

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Speaker 2: a good representation of what you would prefer that's the goal.

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Speaker 4: And look, we're at a time we've had this. Look,

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Speaker 4: let me just say this with all due respect, and

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Speaker 4: I've got Democratic friends and I've worked with at bipartisan bills.

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Speaker 4: You got to do what you can do with what

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Speaker 4: you got. But our Democratic colleagues do not have any

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Speaker 4: real interest in working with us on the issues that

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Speaker 4: most of my constituents care about. I mean, even just

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Speaker 4: last week, one of our Democratic colleagues was nine blocks

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Speaker 4: from the US Capitol. Do you think they're going to

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Speaker 4: come out for a strong you know, crime control? You know,

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Speaker 4: our borders are wide open, three hundred and six thousand

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Speaker 4: encounters in August, eleven thousand in Eagle Pass last week,

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Speaker 4: fentanel killing our kids. Are we going to get border

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Speaker 4: security out of our Democratic colleague? You know Ukraine, it's

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Speaker 4: always a blank check, two trillion dollars in deficits, no help.

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Speaker 4: So what that means is we have the two hundred

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Speaker 4: and twenty one Republicans because we lost one because his

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Speaker 4: wife's sick and he resigned. We have two hundred and

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Speaker 4: twenty one and we have to basically figure it out

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Speaker 4: among that group because we're getting no support from our

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Speaker 4: Democratic colleagues for common sense solutions to those problems. So

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Speaker 4: if we have some disagreements, it ends up getting aired

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Speaker 4: out publicly. I'm not one of the people that thinks

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Speaker 4: that that that that is that bad of a thing.

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Speaker 4: We wanted to have a more open Congress, and I

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Speaker 4: actually credit Kevin with working with us to do that.

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Speaker 4: It's why I would not have vacated, but it happened.

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Speaker 4: So let's keep moving forward. Let's unite. But look, it's

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Speaker 4: going to be a little open. The point about the

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Speaker 4: behind closed doors as a conference is that I think

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Speaker 4: we need to unite as a conference around one speaker

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Speaker 4: and then come out. Let's select that speaker, and let's

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Speaker 4: get busy working, and you know, all of the work

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Speaker 4: we do is out in public view every day.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, we're talking to Congressman Chip Roy of Texas. You

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Speaker 2: said you want to kind of unite behind closed doors.

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Speaker 2: You haven't, and you also just told us, hey, later

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Speaker 2: this afternoon, you're going to maybe say who you would support.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump came out in favor of Jim Jordan. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: different people have taken different perspectives on this. As you

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Speaker 2: sort of read the room, would you assess this as

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Speaker 2: a fifty to fifty battle. Is it a sixty forty battle?

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Speaker 2: Do you think somebody has more votes on their side

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Speaker 2: than the other right now? How would you assess sort

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Speaker 2: of the vote counting from your perspective, I think that.

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Speaker 4: There is you know, there were a number of people

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Speaker 4: talking about it, that the two guys got out pretty quickly.

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Speaker 4: I think they're the two leading candidates at the moment,

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Speaker 4: that the two they are the only two really fully

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Speaker 4: announced candidates at the moment. And I think I think

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Speaker 4: it's pretty much a fifty to fifty kind of market

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Speaker 4: at the moment. But I do think there's some wind

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Speaker 4: in Jim sales, and I think that wind is getting

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Speaker 4: a little stronger. He's got a lot of support across

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Speaker 4: the conference despite having been a Freedom Carcass chairman and founder,

437
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: you know over the last decade. You know, it's just

438
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: hearing committee chairman what he's been doing on oversight and Biden.

439
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 4: He's a great spokesman, et cetera. You know, again, not

440
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: tipping my hat too quickly. I just want to say

441
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 4: that I think, you know, it's a stilly a probably

442
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 4: a toss up today, but all of this weekend there's

443
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 4: going to be a lot of calls getting whipped, and

444
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 4: so I think we'll see an interesting debate. Now here's

445
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 4: the trick. If they're ten or fifteen or twenty who

446
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 4: are just never going to support person X, whether it's Schalie,

447
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: whether it's Jim, then we're going to have to figure

448
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: out a consensus candidate. Right. And so those are some

449
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 4: of the questions. Right, Trump's come in hard for Jim.

450
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 4: Will that get us to unanimity or will that calls

451
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 4: cause us to be a little short? No, same with Steve.

452
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 4: So look, our job is to wrestle through this again.

453
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 4: I spent the last time I stayed in DCN till

454
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 4: this morning. I kept working. I would have stayed longer,

455
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 4: but most of left toown. So I've been working and

456
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 4: I'll be working this weekend remotely on how we set

457
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 4: up a structure to get this done, because should the

458
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 4: need to get.

459
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 2: It done, should the rules be changed in terms of

460
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: how many people can bring emotion to vacate and for

461
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: people out there who are not really paying a lot

462
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: of attention, And I understand it, to the nitty gritty

463
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: of the House of Representative rules and regulations, can you

464
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: explain to us what the rule is now, and whether

465
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 2: you think that should be changed for the next speaker,

466
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: and whether you think it's likely to be changed.

467
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 4: Correct. So, the motion to vacate is a tool that

468
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 4: has existed in the United States House of Representatives since

469
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 4: Thomas Jefferson's Manual for over two hundred years. It was

470
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 4: pulled out under a speaker Pelosi's tenure, and it was

471
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: removed to only the leader of each conference, which course

472
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 4: doesn't make much sense, right because you know, you're pretty

473
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: much just leaving it the tools of the minority leader

474
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 4: to go try to go after the speaker. The reason

475
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 4: it was always there was simple. It was so that

476
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 4: any one member can protect his or her right to

477
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 4: be able to be heard in the conference. It's a

478
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 4: majoritarian body. That means you pretty much get steamrolled by

479
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 4: the majority, except for that one tool to be able

480
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 4: to say, hold on, mister speaker, you're not accounting for us,

481
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 4: you're not letting us have a seat at the table.

482
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: You're doing deals behind closed doors. You're doing you know,

483
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 4: these multi trillion dollar deals that you drop on the

484
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 4: floor at the last minute in jammus. That's the one

485
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 4: tool we have. So last year in the Speaker's debate

486
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 4: in January. It was one of the things we fought

487
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 4: to restore. Kevin, to his great credit, agreed to restore it.

488
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 4: We've had, I think, a very successful first six months,

489
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 4: getting good bills passed, strong border security, strong defense bill. Obviously,

490
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: last week the motion of a Kate got played. I

491
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 4: wouldn't played it, but that's kind of the price of

492
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: it having the system be more democratized. I think we

493
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 4: must keep it. I want to be very clear if

494
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 4: I end up supporting Jim Jordan, which is very likely

495
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 4: after I have a call this afternoon that I got

496
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 4: to hold on to just because he's my guy, and

497
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 4: he was my guy in twenty eighteen. The first thing

498
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: I did in Congress doesn't mean I shouldn't be consistent

499
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 4: that I think the motion to vacate needs to stay there.

500
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 4: In other words, what's good for the goose is good

501
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: for the gander. I believe it's an important tool. It's messy.

502
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 4: Democracy's messy. We don't have things like recall petitions in

503
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 4: this country. We don't do things the same way as

504
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: parliamentary systems and so forth. But we do need a

505
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 4: tool for members of Congress to be able to flex

506
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: their muscle and say, wait a minute, we don't like

507
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 4: the way things are going. You know, we can debate

508
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 4: those rules. Maybe next year we can. But I for

509
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 4: one believe we need to keep this rule through the

510
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: rest of the remainder of this Congress, and we can

511
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 4: always debate that next year, as we do every year.

512
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: Eighteen members of the House Republican Caucus are in districts

513
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: that Joe Biden won. I think that's the correct number

514
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, so those are flip districts. You obviously

515
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: have a wide variety of perspectives inside of the Republican House.

516
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: I talked about this on the air recently, and I'm

517
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: curious your analysis. I don't remember any period of time

518
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: where there's been more people screaming rhino all the time

519
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: anytime you're on the opposite side. It's kind of like sports, right.

520
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm used to it, But if you're not

521
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: on the same team as someone else, then on any

522
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: one issue, immediately you get called a rhino. Is that healthy?

523
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: Is it good for Republicans? Because I don't hear Democrats

524
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: rip each other publicly as often as I do Republicans.

525
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm wrong on that.

526
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: But it seems that's the case, and how much of

527
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: whatever decision is made now really has to be focused

528
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: on the fact that those eighteen, in order to win,

529
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: have a different obligation and responsibility to their constituents than

530
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: somebody who's in a hard right district that doesn't have

531
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: any risk at all. It seems like there's not a

532
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: lot of discussion about the disparate treatment and responsibilities of

533
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 2: different constituencies.

534
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: Right, it's a big group.

535
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 4: Sure, let me just say this, I mean one thing again,

536
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 4: credit to Kevin. We had a lot of us sitting

537
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 4: at the table who got to know each other across

538
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 4: the ideological spectrum, which we've not done as much of.

539
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 4: Just this morning. Brian Fitzpatrick, who's probably by voting record,

540
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: our most left side of the Republican conference guy, and

541
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 4: I'm obviously pretty far on the right side voting record wise,

542
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 4: it's not you know, top two, three, four, and we

543
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 4: we're good friends. We get along. This morning we jointly

544
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 4: led this letter I told you about, which is going

545
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 4: to have close to one hundred signatures on it, saying, hey,

546
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 4: let's decide this as a conference with two hundred and

547
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: eighteen as a family and then come to the floor.

548
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 4: There are times when you can do that and degree.

549
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 4: I've got great friendships with people across the spectrum, and

550
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 4: I respect there. We have to represent our constituents. They

551
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 4: have to respect that. For me, I'm going to throw

552
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 4: down over the border. I'm not going to give another dollar.

553
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 4: I'll handle my orc because and the border's not secure

554
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: because I'm in Texans and we're getting absolutely crushed. So

555
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 4: they respect that, So you know, I'm good with that.

556
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 4: I actually think Robust's debate is good. I love it.

557
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 4: I gain if people get out there and call me

558
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: a rhino does not bother me in the slightest bit.

559
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 4: I'm a rhino because I endorse Ron DeSantis. Oh I'm

560
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 4: a rhino, right, I'm a rhino because I didn't vacate

561
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 4: Kevin McCarthy. So okay, all but eight members of the

562
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 4: Republican Conference that are rhinos are, including large numbers the

563
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: vast majority of the Freedom caucuss. It's all nonsense. But

564
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 4: you know what, it's an open health you know, debate.

565
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: People are going to get out there, especially in the

566
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: world of social media. But here's the one thing that

567
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 4: I think is where it gets a little dangerous. Last week,

568
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 4: a bunch of people were calling into my office and

569
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 4: pretty threatening, going after my interns and my front office people,

570
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 4: good kids, and they were doing it because somebody had

571
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 4: said Chip Roy is a turncoat and he's now for

572
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 4: Ukraine funding. A hold on a second, Hey, even if

573
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 4: that were true, that's not a reason to like just

574
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 4: light our office on fire. But b it's not true.

575
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 4: I'm very skeptical of even another dollar in Ukraine. But

576
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: what I said was if there's going to be Ukraine funding,

577
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: I want border security, period like end of the story.

578
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: And then that got translated as Chip will sell out

579
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 4: on Ukraine in order to get border And then people

580
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 4: started calling in with pretty vile attacks on some of

581
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 4: the people that are you know, kids in my front office.

582
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: So that caused me. I kind of lost it on

583
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 4: an interview with my friend Steve Days and told them

584
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 4: to kiss my bottom in a more vulgar way and

585
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 4: another excellent tip or two, because I was really angry

586
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: at what they were doing to my kids. You can

587
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 4: say whatever you want about me, I don't give a crap,

588
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 4: but you know, everybody needs to just dial it back

589
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: a notch in terms of how you're engaging with other humans,

590
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 4: express your opinion, and then, you know, take a chill

591
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 4: pill and let's figure out how this plays out.

592
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 2: Enjoy the games, have fun with the kids, and we'll

593
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: talk to you again soon.

594
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 4: Have fun in college station. Man to have everybody there.

595
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: Take care, We'll do that's a congressman, Chip Roy, awesome, dude.

596
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit about that. React to that

597
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: interview when we come back in a sec. But our

598
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: friend Dutchmen and Hall, co founder CEO of Read Diversified,

599
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: organizing an impactful wealth summit this December in Tampa. The

600
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: invest Wealth Summit two full days Saturday and Sunday, December

601
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Speaker 2: first and second. You'll hear from a variety of speakers

602
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Speaker 2: on a range of topics, including my buddy Buck Sexton.

603
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson will also be there, as well as a

604
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Speaker 2: dozen others including Lisa Booth and Amy Vaughan. If you

605
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606
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607
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Speaker 2: invest Wealth Summit. Get your tickets online at investwealth Summit

608
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Speaker 2: dot com today. That's invest Wealthsummit dot com. Dutch Mendenhall,

609
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Speaker 2: he's a visionary leader real estate and author of the book.

610
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614
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616
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617
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Speaker 1: Sleeve, Travis and Buck Sexton on the front lines of truth.

618
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back in the final hour of the week. Fourteen

619
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: hours up, fifteenth hour beginning now. Hope all of you

620
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: are having a good Friday so far. Open phone lines

621
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: eight hundred and two two two eight eight two. Buck

622
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: is out today. He'll be back with me on Monday,

623
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: and we'll be breaking down the continued battle over who's

624
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: going to be the Speaker of the House. I think

625
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: it's going to end up being Jim Jordan, who has

626
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 2: been endorsed by Donald Trump. It appears Donald Trump is

627
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: not going to be involved very much at least right

628
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: now in the speaker battle. Jim Jordan and Scalise are

629
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: going right now to be the two contestants contenders for

630
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: that job. We talked a lot in the second hour

631
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: with Chip Roy, congressman from Texas, who put into context

632
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: what he expected that battle to be like. And I

633
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: would encourage you as always to go download the podcast,

634
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: make sure you don't miss a moment, and you can

635
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: ensure that you can take the show with you anywhere

636
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: in the country or around the world. Tens of millions

637
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: of you downloading it. You get a lot of unique

638
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: access on that podcast as well, including both Carol Markowitz

639
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: and Tutor Dixon who are part of the Clay and

640
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: Buck podcast network. There are going to be additional members

641
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: of that podcast network in the days of the weeks

642
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: and months ahead, and I think you were going to

643
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: enjoy all of that content, So go ahead and sign up.

644
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: It's free.

645
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: You can do it on any podcast company. Also, always

646
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: want to tell you the iHeartRadio apps pretty fantastic. You

647
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: can listen to this show straight from the app anywhere

648
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: in the country around the world as well. Okay, so

649
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: we started off the show talking about this crazy story

650
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: out of Michigan where Michigan State head coach Mel Tucker

651
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 2: has been fired despite the fact that he was engaged

652
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: in a consensual relationship, did nothing improper. All that can

653
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: be alleged is that he engaged in phone sex once

654
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 2: in a thirty six minute phone call. That a lot

655
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: of you still want to weigh in on, and we're

656
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 2: going to take some calls from you guys on that.

657
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: But as we went to break, I teased that there

658
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: hasn't been a lot of discussion about the motion that

659
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has filed in Washington d C arguing that

660
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: he has essentially presidential immunity from any of the charges

661
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: that are being brought by Jack Smith alleging that he

662
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: is responsible for January sixth related incidents. Now, I'm going

663
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: to try to simplify this. I'll also allow anybody who

664
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 2: wants to weigh in to make arguments or ask questions

665
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: about this. I went and I read this motion. I

666
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: actually think Trump's gonna win on this motion. Now I

667
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: understand what are we sitting at here right now October sixth.

668
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: Trump is scheduled to begin trial in March. This is

669
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: I think maybe the most significant legal filing that we

670
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: have seen so far from Trump's attorneys in this case,

671
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: and essentially What they are arguing is that Supreme Court

672
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: president has been established in civil cases that presidents can't

673
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: be sued for presidential related activities in a civil manner. Now,

674
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: let me try to simplify this as best I can.

675
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: Richard Nixon obviously resigned as President of the United States,

676
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: and there was a question as to whether Nixon could

677
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: be held civilly liable for his behavior as president of

678
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: the United States, and the Supreme Court said no. Trump

679
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 2: is now arguing and let me explain sort of the

680
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 2: rationale why that would have existed as it did if

681
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: you are engaged in the work as president of the

682
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: United States, for you to be civilly liable for the

683
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: decisions that you made as President of the United States

684
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: would open an absolute Pandora's box. You may think that

685
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: Joe Biden is making disastrous decisions at the border.

686
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 3: I do.

687
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: But if suddenly you could sue and bankrupt Joe Biden

688
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: because you disagree with the choices that he is making

689
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: as President of the United States having to do with

690
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: the border, or student loan relief or any other thing.

691
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: You can disagree with him, but those are political decisions,

692
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: and the job of the president of the United States

693
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: is to constantly be making political decisions if you believe

694
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: and this is why I always say precedent's important. If

695
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 2: you believe that Donald Trump shouldn't build a wall, you

696
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 2: shouldn't be able to bankrupt Donald Trump by suing him

697
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: because his political imperative is to try to build more

698
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: walls at the border, right whatever side. I'm just using

699
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: the border as an example because it's a contentious issue

700
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 2: right now in the political realm. But the Supreme Court

701
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: has said, hey, you shouldn't be able to bankrupt Joe

702
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: Biden over the decisions he makes at the border, or

703
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: Donald Trump at the decisions he makes at the border. Democrat, Republican.

704
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: That's the job of the president. And I think all

705
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: of you out there can understand that. You would say, oh, yeah,

706
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 2: makes total sense. The president of the United States has

707
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: to decide lots of contentious issues. The idea that he

708
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: would be civilly liable for the political decisions that he's

709
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: making as president of the United States, that's a really

710
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: bad president to set, which is why again Richard Nixon

711
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: wasn't able to be sued in a civil context for

712
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: the decisions he made relating to his presidential office.

713
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 3: It's never been tested in a criminal court before.

714
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: Because we have never seen a president charged with a

715
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: criminal violation like Trump is being charged with.

716
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: Reading it. I actually think Trump's lawyers are one hundred

717
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 3: percent right here.

718
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: I think as a if you followed the president again,

719
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: to explain to everybody, civil is money, right as a

720
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: general rule, if you're filing a civil lawsuit and you're

721
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 2: suing someone, you're typically trying to get monetary damages.

722
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: In some way.

723
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 2: That's simplifying it, but most of the time that's what's

724
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: being sought. So civil penalties are typically money. Criminal penalties are, hey,

725
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: we're trying to put you in prison or we're trying

726
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: to restrict your freedoms in some way, typically not dollar wise.

727
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: And the easiest way to describe this is OJ Simpson.

728
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: All of you remember not guilty in a criminal court

729
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 2: of the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and of Ronald Goldman,

730
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: the waiter who came to the home that night. Even

731
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: though I think the evidence supports, as many of you do,

732
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: that O. J. Simpson was guilty of murder, the jury

733
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: in LA said he's not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt,

734
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: and so OJ Simpson to this day remains free.

735
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 3: But he was then sued.

736
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: As a wrongful death lawsuit civilly and found responsible. The

737
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 2: standards are different in those courts, beyond a reasonable doubt

738
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: in the in the criminal context, preponderance of the evidence

739
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 2: in a civil context. But OJ was effectively bankrupted by

740
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: the civil judgment. They took all of his possessions, they

741
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: sold them. Now the challenge and you're like, well, how

742
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 2: does OJ have time to play golf and everything else.

743
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: He can't touch his pension as a part of that settlement,

744
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: so he's still OJ's still getting his NFL pension, but

745
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: he basically has to spend every dollar every year or

746
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: else that money, if he had assets that he was

747
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 2: building up, would go to his creditors, the Nicole Brown

748
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: Simpson and the Ronald Goldman family. Because OJ was found

749
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 2: not criminally liable but civilly liable for wrongful death.

750
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: Okay.

751
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: The reason why I bring that up is the civil

752
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 2: decision is not one hundred percent precedent for the criminal decision,

753
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: but it's pretty compelling. I think that a court that

754
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: looks at that Nixon civil precedent will be hard pressed

755
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 2: to argue that Trump was not acting within his presidential

756
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: duties while he was in office, relating to everything surrounding

757
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: to January sixth. I think that's an incredibly compelling argument.

758
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: But why does it matter, you might say, Well, I imagine

759
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: that the lower circuits, because as they are likely to

760
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: be made up of Democrats, might disagree with that opinion.

761
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: But eventually that's going to reach the Supreme Court, and

762
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: I think the Supreme Court is likely to set the

763
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: precedent that trying to put presidents in prison for political

764
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: decisions that they make while they're in office is not permitted.

765
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 2: I think there's a decent chance that this Jack Smith

766
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: case could end up Nolan void based on the argument

767
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: that the Trump people are making in this case. At

768
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: a minimum, it may very well forestall the case even

769
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: starting as the appellate process works its way through the court,

770
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: because I would argue for you, you can't try this

771
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: case until you've determined whether the case could even be

772
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: brought in the first place. Now, this may not implicate

773
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 2: it would implicate Atlanta as well, by the way, because

774
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: that's basically a similar version of the case that's being

775
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: brought in.

776
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: DC.

777
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: It wouldn't necessarily implicate the bookkeeping case in New York City,

778
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 2: although I think that's a garbage case and it might

779
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: not necessarily implicate all of the case in South Florida

780
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: because that case still relies to some extent on the

781
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: fact that Trump was argued to have possession of documents

782
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: and not have been entitled to have possession of those

783
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: documents after he was president of the United States. Now,

784
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: the Trump people would still argue, well, the president should

785
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 2: apply to the post presidency too. That's a more challenging

786
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: decision to me. But all of the Jack Smith issues

787
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: directly implicate Trump while he was still in presidential office,

788
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 2: and I think the president of that being under presidential

789
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: powers is actually a compelling one based on the case

790
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: that the Trump team has just made an emotion that

791
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: they filed in Washington, d C. I don't know that

792
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: very many people are going to talk about it. I

793
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,399
Speaker 2: went through the New York Times this morning. They didn't

794
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: have to unless I missed it in the paper this morning.

795
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 2: I didn't see a single article about it. It was

796
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: buried on page seven or eight of the Wall Street

797
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: Journal today. I actually think this is a fairly significant

798
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: legal argument that Trump has made that has a decent

799
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: chance of being the law when or if this gets

800
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: to the Supreme Court. So I think that's worth paying

801
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: attention to in a big way because I think it

802
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: could go directly to whether this case in March is

803
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: able to be adjudicated before we actually get.

804
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 3: To the election in twenty twenty four.

805
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: Again, it would implicate Atlanta, it would potentially implicate South

806
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: Florida less so would not necessarily be implicated by the

807
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: New York City case. But I'm not hearing very many

808
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 2: people talk about it. I think it is a very

809
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 2: compelling argument that the Trump team has made on that

810
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: particular case. All Right, we come back. DeSantis is going

811
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: after Trump. I'll play some of that audio for you directly.

812
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 2: He's taking off the gloves. I told you that I

813
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: would update you on that. Also, we'll continue to take

814
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: some of your calls to close out the rest of

815
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: the hour and take us into the weekend. I appreciate

816
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 2: all of you who are hanging out with us as

817
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: we are continuing to roll throughout the course of the program.

818
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: But I want to tell you as we had to

819
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 2: break here and get ready for a lot of your

820
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: calls and more of the DeSantis versus Trump Battle. Start

821
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830
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831
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837
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Speaker 1: Truth Seeking, Reality Telling to Claytravis and Buck Sexton Show.

838
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 2: Welcome Back in Clay Travis, Buck Sexton Show. A lot

839
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: of you want to weigh in, but Danielle reached out.

840
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: She's a listener of the show. Danielle'll let you describe.

841
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 2: You are a rape survivor. You have helped to bring

842
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 2: awareness to these issues. Tell us where you work, what

843
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: you do, and your reaction to this story.

844
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you for having me on the program. I

845
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 5: really appreciate that. I actually am a rape survivor, activist

846
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 5: and advocate and have been for the last fifteen years.

847
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 5: I stepped forward as a named victim of Richard Gilmour,

848
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 5: who was the Jogger rapist, and since then, that was

849
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 5: two thousand and eight, and since then I pretty much

850
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 5: have dedicated my life to working on issues surrounded around

851
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 5: sexual assault. So in various states, I've changed over a

852
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 5: dozen different laws and have worked on the rape kit backlog,

853
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 5: have worked nationally with the Joyful Heart Foundation and with

854
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 5: rain so got quite a resume, and I currently in

855
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 5: Oklahoma belonged to the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force

856
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 5: and am still changing laws between Oregon and Oklahoma on

857
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,399
Speaker 5: different related issues, you know, surrounding sexual assault, the sex

858
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 5: offender registry and things like that that actually affect me.

859
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: Directly, Well, thank you for all the work that you're doing,

860
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: and certainly the rate kit backlog that exists all over

861
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: this country is indefensible and should be rectified. So I

862
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: appreciate all the work you're doing there and the bravery

863
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 2: for speaking.

864
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 3: Now, do you know Brenda Tracy?

865
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: What do you think of this story based on the

866
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: text messages and all of the details that have come out.

867
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 5: You know, I do know Brenda Tracy. I actually worked

868
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,919
Speaker 5: with her in Oregon and we both actually served on

869
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 5: the Governor's Sexual Assault Kit Task Force in Oregon as well,

870
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 5: and we both worked on that legislation. So I don't

871
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 5: have a close relationship with Brenda, but I definitely have

872
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 5: been following the story very closely, just because I do

873
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 5: know Brenda. I guess my first question, you know, when

874
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 5: it first broke the what was happening the text messages,

875
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 5: I think was to me was the red flag with

876
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 5: the deleted text messages on both sides. The first thing

877
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 5: that came to my mind is that we really do

878
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 5: need to know what was in those text messages to

879
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 5: be able to prove one side or the other. And

880
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 5: I think with the release of those I think we're

881
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 5: getting a little bit more of a clear picture as

882
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 5: to the relationship and possible other relationships with others as well.

883
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: And in general, your position would be women who lie

884
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 2: are the enemy of true victims, right, women regardless, this

885
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: is the worst thing that you could do. You want

886
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: everybody to speak forward, but people have to be honest.

887
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 5: Right And this case, I think is by far still

888
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 5: not over.

889
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 4: And done with.

890
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: Welcome back in Glacier, Ravis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all

891
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: of you hanging out with us. We're rolling through the program.

892
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: You might have heard at the end of the first

893
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: hour we were having a discussion about the mel Tucker

894
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: situation in Michigan State, and my argument was, I can't

895
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: believe this isn't receiving more attention than it is. And

896
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: we had a rape survivor, Danielle Tudor, who does a

897
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 2: lot of sexual assault advocacy all over the country call

898
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 2: in to discuss we finished off the first hour, she

899
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: wasn't able to finish her story, So Danielle, appreciate you

900
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: calling back in. I wanted to make sure that we

901
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 2: got an opportunity for you to talk to this audience.

902
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 2: It appears based on the text messages from Brenda Tracy

903
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 2: that she has been lying about some many I would

904
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 2: even say aspects of the story that she has told

905
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: surrounding Mel Tucker and you set out a message to

906
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: the show, and you said, as someone who works in

907
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 2: rape advocacy, who is a sexual assault survivor yourself, that

908
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 2: one of the worst things that can happen out there

909
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 2: is for women to lie about being vicvictims. It's a

910
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: small percentage of the overall numbers out there, but it

911
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 2: has a large reach because it calls into question others.

912
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: What have you seen in your experience about advocating for

913
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: women as it pertains to falsehoods, which are a small percentage,

914
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: But what the impact is a lot of women don't

915
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 2: get believed because of some women who lie.

916
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 5: Right you know. You know, the court of public opinion unfortunately,

917
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 5: can be really brutal for sexual assault or rape victim.

918
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 5: And unfortunately, I think that's probably one of the biggest

919
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 5: reasons that someone won't come forward is because then there's

920
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 5: all these questions that are asked. So certainly I'm saddened

921
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 5: by you know, what is happening, you know right now,

922
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 5: and I think it pushes victims, you know, from engaging

923
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 5: in the process. Even further, we know that Brenda's original

924
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 5: story and what brought her to the forefront from the beginning.

925
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 5: We know that story is true. So I think with

926
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 5: what's happening right now, we have to let the system

927
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 5: do its job. And I think that's probably what's playing

928
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 5: out right now that we're all watching with when you

929
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 5: hear and then.

930
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 3: By the way it is, and yeah, the text messages,

931
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 3: I read some of them.

932
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you hear someone say that they didn't consent

933
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 2: to phone sex and that is why they believe that

934
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: a coach needs to be fired. To me, when I

935
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: hear someone make that argument, that isn't sexual assault, right,

936
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination,

937
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 2: at least not that I've heard, engaging in phone sex

938
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: would not be sexual assault. You're in different places now.

939
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 2: Maybe if somebody says, hey, if you hang up the phone,

940
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to fire you and you're never going to

941
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: be able to work again, and so you have to

942
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: stay on the phone and listen to me, there's no

943
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: allegation that that took place. Maybe you could make an

944
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 2: argument that that is something that deserves significant punishment. But

945
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,479
Speaker 2: when you're talking about a thirty six minute phone call,

946
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: and you don't raise the issue until you have a

947
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: speech canceled on the university campus. And it seems like

948
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: mel Tucker is trying to dial back the relationship. To me,

949
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: it delegitimizes all the work that you're doing on behalf

950
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 2: of people that are actual sexual assault victims.

951
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: Am I am I crazy for analyzing it that way.

952
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 5: Well, I would say with the phone sex, if it

953
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 5: was unwanted, I do think that that could be considered

954
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 5: sexual assault. But you raise other questions, and I think

955
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 5: this is where the system is going to have to

956
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 5: step in and kind of figure this out. You're talking

957
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 5: to adults that are both I believe in their fifties,

958
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 5: so we're not talking young people here. We're talking consenting

959
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 5: adults that had some type of relationship that we know of.

960
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 5: But there just seems to be a lot that's unclear

961
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 5: I think as to how this all progressed. But definitely

962
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 5: I think it's something that we are going to have

963
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 5: to let the system work out. But you know, I've

964
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 5: heard people say, well, why didn't you hang up? Or

965
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 5: why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that?

966
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 5: And you have to realize that those are a lot

967
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 5: of questions that survivors are asked, and certainly in my

968
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 5: case there was no question about it with a stranger rape,

969
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 5: but still, you know, there are those questions, why didn't

970
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 5: I do this, Why didn't I run that way?

971
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: Why?

972
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 5: You know? So there's already a lot of self doubt.

973
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 5: But with a situation with Brenda, I think what we're

974
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 5: seeing now is that you know, all the different aspects

975
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 5: are coming out, and as adults, I think they they

976
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 5: both need to take responsibility. But from what I understand

977
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 5: from Tucker's contract, anything that could be reflect or reflect

978
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 5: badly on the university that they're saying that they can

979
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 5: dismiss him for that. So that is certainly I think

980
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 5: something that he and the university will end up working out.

981
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 5: But it's just such a when you hear when.

982
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 2: You hear it, Yeah, when you hear that somebody has

983
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: sent text messages saying that they're after money.

984
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: And then they also me cringe.

985
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 5: It makes me cringe.

986
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 2: Because that's the number one thing that women get attacked,

987
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: and when they're especially when the person the man involved

988
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,479
Speaker 2: has money or fame or power. The number one attack.

989
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen this. The number one attack is

990
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 2: she's only in it for the money. So when there

991
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 2: are texts from Brenda Tracy that clearly suggests she's after

992
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: Mel Tucker's money and reference how big his contract was,

993
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: that is I mean, I would imagine, I mean, you

994
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 2: speak to what that does. But that just further legitimizes

995
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 2: in many people's minds that that's the first go to

996
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 2: attack anytime a celebrity or a famous or rich person

997
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 2: is accused of wrongdoing.

998
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 5: Right right. I think as an advocate and activist, I

999
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 5: think it's always good to always check your first motivation

1000
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 5: for doing it. And I can say that I've actually

1001
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 5: taken a second job, or actually not a second job.

1002
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 5: I was retired, but I actually took a job so

1003
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 5: that I could fund my advocacy. So I think it's

1004
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 5: always important, you know, to check, you know why we're

1005
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 5: doing something, and why we're in it, and what your

1006
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 5: goal is. And certainly I think that's only something that

1007
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 5: Brenda can answer for herself, and I unfortunately this does

1008
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 5: push victims back into the shadows because they're to be

1009
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 5: afraid to speak up. But I really don't think that

1010
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 5: that's what Brenda ever envisioned or would ever want either. So,

1011
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 5: but you know, unfortunately, because it is becoming very high

1012
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 5: profile and for the work that she does at the

1013
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 5: national level, it really kind of puts a spotlight on it.

1014
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 5: And I hate to see that happen. I hate to

1015
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 5: see what's happening for the coach. I hate to see

1016
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 5: what's happening for Brenda, And I really hope that in

1017
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 5: the hearing process and then the investigation they can kind

1018
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 5: of come to some sort of agreement as to what

1019
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 5: happened there and who's responsible for what, and be able

1020
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 5: to kind of get this out of the public aspect

1021
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 5: of it.

1022
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 2: All Right, last question for you, and I appreciate you

1023
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: calling in sharing your perspective. This is something that I

1024
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 2: think everybody could agree on. There are a tremendous amount

1025
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 2: of rape kits that are not being tested. A monstrous backlog,

1026
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 2: is my understand What can you tell us about the

1027
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: numbers that are outstanding, the number of these kits that

1028
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 2: are never tested, that are never analyzed. Where are we

1029
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 2: what needs to happen for that to change?

1030
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 5: You know, A dreyful Heart Foundation has been a big

1031
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 5: leader in testing the backlog, and there are oh at

1032
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 5: last count. I'm not one hundred percent sure, so don't

1033
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 5: quote me on this, but there are over half the

1034
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 5: states I think have eliminated actually their rape kit backlog

1035
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 5: and have completed reforms so that it won't happen again

1036
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 5: in that state. And certainly we did that in Oregon

1037
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 5: and here in Oklahoma. I actually moved here to get

1038
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 5: away from my offender when I knew he was going

1039
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 5: to be released from prison. But in doing that, I

1040
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 5: actually brought rape kit reform here to Oklahoma. So our

1041
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 5: Attorney General get your Drummonds, oversees the task force, and

1042
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 5: we are we're getting closer here in Oklahoma to full

1043
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 5: rate kit reform. And like I said, a lot of

1044
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 5: states have already reached that. We've got some that haven't

1045
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 5: done anything, but those are getting fewer and fewer. So

1046
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 5: as you see us tackling the rape kit backlog and

1047
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 5: getting success in that area, then you start to look

1048
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 5: at other laws, and one of those is the Statute

1049
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 5: of Limitations on rape, both with DNA and without DNA,

1050
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 5: and that's where cases like this, what's happening with Brenda,

1051
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 5: that's where it makes my job a little bit harder.

1052
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 5: So and I'm going for some changes in the Statute

1053
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 5: of limitations on rape here in Oklahoma and the next

1054
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 5: legislative session. So when you get that high profile of well,

1055
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 5: we don't think, you know, she's being truthful, it really reflects,

1056
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 5: you know, on us, really boots on the ground that

1057
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 5: are working really hard and diligently, you know, to change

1058
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 5: and make that landscape a little bit easier for survive

1059
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 5: to actually navigate and try and get justice.

1060
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 3: Thank you for the call.

1061
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 2: Thank you for the call and shedding light on this.

1062
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 2: She's Danielle Tudor, rape survivor, sexual assault advocate. I wanted

1063
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: to make sure we got you an opportunity to tell

1064
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: your full story. After the first hour we didn't get

1065
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 2: it complete. Thank you very much. Have a good weekend.

1066
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 5: Thank you, Thank you for having me.

1067
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 3: No doubt.

1068
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 2: Look, holiday gift might sound crazy, right we're sitting here

1069
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: early October. A lot of you probably just cringe. You're like, oh,

1070
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: holidays already. Yes, a lot of you have to figure

1071
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 2: out what to get as gifts too. A lot of

1072
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 2: times very difficult to get gifts. Nobody knows what to

1073
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: get me. If you're a dad out there, if you're

1074
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 2: a granddad, how many ties you got, how many sweaters

1075
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 2: you got? How many books that you never even had

1076
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: any interest in reading. Nobody knows what to get an

1077
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: awful lot of men. How about preserving memories forever. That's

1078
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: a pretty good gift. That's what Legacy Box does. Look,

1079
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 2: they can hook you up right now. They can get

1080
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: you ready in time for the holidays. More than a

1081
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: million families have benefited from Legacy Boxes expertise.

1082
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Speaker 3: All those old VHS.

1083
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: Tape, all those old photos, all that old in real

1084
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 2: physical condition. You know, VHS tapes weren't made to last forever.

1085
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: They degrade and disintegrate in a hurry. How many of

1086
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: your family's memories are on those old VHS tapes? Those

1087
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: camcorders the dad or mom carried around, took photos, took

1088
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 2: videos of you sitting around the Christmas tree. How many

1089
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 2: of those great moments are you worried won't exist for

1090
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: your kids, for your grandkids to be able to see.

1091
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: A Legacy Box will hook you up right now and

1092
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: they can give you a Christmas present for everyone, which

1093
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Speaker 2: is your family's memories preserved forever. If you go online

1094
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: right now at legacybox dot com slash clay, you can

1095
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Speaker 2: get forty percent off their normal prices, and have a

1096
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 2: brand new present for member of your family. It's tough

1097
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 2: to shop for. Preserve those family memories forever. Website legacybox

1098
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: dot com slash Clay ty percent off the normal prices.

1099
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: Legacy box dot com slash Clay.

1100
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: Download and use the new Clay and Buck app. Listen

1101
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: to the program live.

1102
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 4: Catch up on any part of the show you might have.

1103
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: Missed at Stay current with what Clay and Buck are

1104
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: saying on TV. Find the Clay and Buck app in

1105
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: your app store and make it

1106
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 4: Part of your day.