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Speaker 1: Check check check check chicken chop chow chowder, chive chastity.

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Speaker 1: Oh we gotta grumble at chastity from Queen Libertines over charity.

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Speaker 1: Charity chivalry bit different chivalry, chivalry, chivalry, chives said chid chide.

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Speaker 1: You chided me for saying chives when you already said chives. Child, Wow,

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Speaker 1: choose your chives cheerfully, chair chair. Uh. And that was

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Speaker 1: today's episode about the romance between the letter C and

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Speaker 1: the letter H. H d be stepping out. H has

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Speaker 1: a thing going on, essence G. Sometimes even though H

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Speaker 1: is a little quiet about that one. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I've seen chat with I guess G is usually the

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Speaker 1: quiet one. How about this? How about when P and

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Speaker 1: H go out together and nobody even knows it's either

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Speaker 1: of them, right, some people who might even think it

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Speaker 1: is G. Some people are like, oh yeah right, these

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Speaker 1: and cough. It's the same sound you guys see F

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Speaker 1: last night at the body wasn't here? I saw and

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Speaker 1: I saw H standing nearby G together. Anybody anybody's seen

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Speaker 1: P around here lately? Oh? You what a what a

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Speaker 1: world this letter land. We spend some more time there,

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Speaker 1: I know, right, I'd go to a party with a

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Speaker 1: bunch of letters because I'm very lame. W H is

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Speaker 1: always stepping out with everyone, including W you horror or

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Speaker 1: you whole horror? Wow, H gets around. Really thought about

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Speaker 1: that before? H? Holy hell h H the horror of

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Speaker 1: the alphabet. So we figured it out. That's why you

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Speaker 1: joined us on this podcast. But he's hard hitting, hard hitting,

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Speaker 1: heart hard hard hitting for these hard hitting histories, these

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Speaker 1: have truths, hearts of hearts here say here's say yes totally.

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Speaker 1: He's horrible headlines today's episode of Ridiculous Romances. Talked to

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Speaker 1: you about the letter H, which we've determined is the

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Speaker 1: side piece of the alphabet that's hot. It's hot. Well,

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Speaker 1: we appreciate spending some time with H since we've been

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Speaker 1: dealing with C nineteen this week with our COVID Do

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Speaker 1: you not recommend unsubscribed? Unsubscribed for real? All the extra

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Speaker 1: work I'm gonna do to edit out these coughs and

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Speaker 1: sniffs because it's uh, we're climbing out of it. I

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Speaker 1: feel close to better, Yeah, I think, Yeah, you had

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Speaker 1: your worst day yesterday. Definitely I feel better today than yesterday.

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Speaker 1: But I'm tired. Yeah, we're gonna park you up I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do the pulp fiction shot of adrenaline straight into

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Speaker 1: her heart right before we during the theme song. So

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Speaker 1: she's going to come back and be like, wow, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I excited. Yeah, this is so exciting. We're back for

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Speaker 1: Collette Part three. This has been such a saga into it.

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Speaker 1: Where we at? What happened? Where we at? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: well when we last left off, right, we got Collette through,

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Speaker 1: like I guess, about like five years of her life.

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Speaker 1: I think the nineteen twelve five years of her life,

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Speaker 1: not the first five years of her life. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it would be a different, very different story, very different story.

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Speaker 1: Also a boring lie. Yes, I don't think she had

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Speaker 1: much to say about one through five unless she had

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Speaker 1: written all those novels before she was five years old.

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Speaker 1: Holy shit, incredible, that would be a story like we

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Speaker 1: kep talking about Mozart. But listen, she wrote a whole

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Speaker 1: book about being a fifteen year old girl at school

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Speaker 1: when she was never even been to school yet. No,

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Speaker 1: we had gotten her through about five six years of

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Speaker 1: her life, which included the kiss that started a riot, UM,

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Speaker 1: multiple partners and trists, many many awesome sexy adventures. UM

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Speaker 1: also started her new career in journalism until she married

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Speaker 1: her second husband, unread Juvenel, and they had a daughter.

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Speaker 1: But now war is coming to France, and after that

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Speaker 1: Collette has a sexy young stepson to contend with. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's hear about wartime journalism and lavender languages and sexual

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Speaker 1: initiation and so much more. I'm him. Let's go all right,

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Speaker 1: hey the French come listen. Well, Eli and Diana got

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Speaker 1: some stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a romantic tips.

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Speaker 1: It's just about ridiculous relationships, a love. It might be

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Speaker 1: any type of person at all, and abstract concept, don't

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Speaker 1: a concrete wall. But if there's a story, were the

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Speaker 1: second Glance Ridiculous Roles a production of iHeart Radio. So

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Speaker 1: Henri and Collette married in nineteen twelve, and it was

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Speaker 1: like acrimonious right away. They almost split up within a

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Speaker 1: few months. But when they reconciled, Collette got pregnant. You

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Speaker 1: know how that is that makeup sex. They had their

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Speaker 1: only daughter in nineteen thirteen. Her name was Bell Gazoo,

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Speaker 1: which meant beautiful gazelle, and that was actually Collette's nickname

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Speaker 1: as a child. Okay, well, and just a double back here,

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Speaker 1: real quick Anri dis Juvenel was the editor of a

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Speaker 1: newspaper where Collette worked, right, and that's sort of how

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Speaker 1: they met and fell in love. Yeah, kind of like

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Speaker 1: intellectual equals and stuff like that. But neither of them

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Speaker 1: were great parents to Belle Gazoo. Unfortunately, they pretty much

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Speaker 1: abandoned her to nurses and nanny's um. Not uncommon I

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Speaker 1: think for rich parents who could afford to do that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. Um. But Collette was like, she really

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Speaker 1: was not interested. She would sometimes let six months pass

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Speaker 1: without ever seeing her daughter. She thought parenting was a

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Speaker 1: strain on her creativity and freedom. She called her daughter

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Speaker 1: a rat sometimes just not a good parent. She sucked

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Speaker 1: being a mom. She shouldn't have had a kid. Henri

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Speaker 1: was not a great dad either, He was just really

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in his own self and neither of them

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Speaker 1: wanted to focus on this kid. But they all lived

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Speaker 1: together in Rosven that house in Brittany, France that Missy

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Speaker 1: had gifted to Collette when they broke up, you know,

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Speaker 1: she still had that house. I can't say I've ever

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Speaker 1: gotten a breakup gift, let alone an entire house in Brittany, France.

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Speaker 1: How many Marquees have you dated few, but not many. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll say that, so that's fair. I think the best

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Speaker 1: breakup gift I got was being broken up with and

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Speaker 1: not having to be with that person to say, I

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Speaker 1: think the breakup is the gift usually, alright, But in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, the Great War began that it wasn't even

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Speaker 1: called World War One because no one expected there to

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Speaker 1: be a sequel. It was just the Great War. They

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Speaker 1: didn't do the George Lucas thing where they were like,

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Speaker 1: let me call this World War four, so that there's

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Speaker 1: room to do some prequels and some sequels later, if

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Speaker 1: we right, right, Because I got a theme park in mind.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, the worst ever Franz Ferdinands free fall. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: he well, of course, Henri was almost immediately called to

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Speaker 1: active duty. Healthy man, you know you're you're going to

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Speaker 1: the front. Sorry, bro um So Bell Gazoo was sent

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Speaker 1: into the country to stay because it's safer out there,

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Speaker 1: and Colette went back to Paris. Now only a month

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Speaker 1: into the war. The Germans were at the gates of

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Speaker 1: Paris and it was not pretty like A bomb fell

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Speaker 1: on Isabelle de Canig's garden. Remember her, she was the

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Speaker 1: panther mistress also famous writer. Friends of Collette's were killed,

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Speaker 1: and in mid October, Collette volunteered as a night nurse

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Speaker 1: at a school that was turned into a hospital. She

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Speaker 1: worked thirteen hours shifts from seven in the evening until

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Speaker 1: eight in the morning, which were obviously the hours nobody

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Speaker 1: wanted to work, Colette was doing it. According to Judith

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Speaker 1: Thurman's book Secrets of the Flesh, Collette had eight critically

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Speaker 1: wounded soldiers under her care. Many of them were missing

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Speaker 1: body parts like jaws, teeth, eyes, or whole legs. Insane

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Speaker 1: to think about somebody's half their face missing, perfect bombs

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Speaker 1: and trapnel were just they've sucked you up, Judith It's quote.

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Speaker 1: When she wasn't changing their bandages, making them tea, administering anesthetics,

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Speaker 1: or tending the hot water furnace, she sat with them

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Speaker 1: and talked about her father, which, if you remember, her

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Speaker 1: father had lost his leg in the Second Italian War

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Speaker 1: for Independence. Judith goes on, they wanted to know where

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Speaker 1: he had been amputated, higher than me, and he could

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Speaker 1: still walk and he married all the same, What was

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Speaker 1: his wife like? Tell us? They just wanted to know

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Speaker 1: that there was still a life ahead of them if

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Speaker 1: they had their leg amputated, because that was that's terrifying,

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Speaker 1: how upsetting. I mean again, you know, and some people

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Speaker 1: are missing half their face, like you know, they're definitely

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Speaker 1: like life is over, um, but who better to tell

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Speaker 1: them about all the romance that could be awaiting them

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Speaker 1: that So I kind of like that idea that she

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Speaker 1: was sitting there like, oh my mom was awesome because

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Speaker 1: she did. She was pretty close with her mom um.

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Speaker 1: I think she was a bit of an overbearing mother,

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Speaker 1: but she's still was pretty close to her, so she

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Speaker 1: was able to maybe lift their spirits a little bit

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Speaker 1: and give them some hope, you know what I would say.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if this is true or not,

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Speaker 1: but it just might might. Inclination for the situation is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you've lost your leg. You're going to find someone you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get married, and that person is You've already weeded

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Speaker 1: out all the people who wouldn't marry you because you're

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Speaker 1: you know, they consider you a burden or something like that,

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Speaker 1: so you've got better chances of finding someone who is

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Speaker 1: going to be so supportive of you and devoted to you.

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Speaker 1: So you know, chin up there, hopefully. Yeah, that hopefully things.

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Speaker 1: That's a good case scenario like that. Yeah. Well, after

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Speaker 1: a week of this grueling schedule, collect was transferred to

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Speaker 1: the day shift, so it got a little simpler, you know,

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Speaker 1: people less left this graveyard shift action. But after two

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Speaker 1: months she was missing her husband so badly that she

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Speaker 1: decided to travel in secret to join him on the

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Speaker 1: front lines in very gen and she was not the

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Speaker 1: only soldier's wife to do so. But they technically were

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Speaker 1: not allowed to be there, so they basically had to

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Speaker 1: go into hiding, like they called themselves voluntary prisoners. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it was like Thurman rights quote. Her months at the

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Speaker 1: front were the happiest in her life, in part surely

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Speaker 1: because she had no rivals for Henry's heart, ardor or gratitude.

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Speaker 1: She kept her shutters closed during the day, exercised, wrote, painted,

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Speaker 1: scrubbed floors, and steadied chests, the ultimate proof of love

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Speaker 1: that she could give to her husband. But while in Verdunn,

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Speaker 1: Collette also became one of the first women to report

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Speaker 1: from the front lines about the war. Now, her stories

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Speaker 1: are mostly concerned with like the human cost of the war,

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Speaker 1: like the women and children, even the military war dogs

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Speaker 1: were subjects of her articles, rather than like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the big heavy political implications which of typical word reporting, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which she might have not been able to write about.

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Speaker 1: Women journalists were not given that kind of assignments or

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Speaker 1: were not asked for their opinion about that sort of thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: So you know, it might have been her personal preference,

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Speaker 1: and it might have been like, well, we don't care

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Speaker 1: to hear your opinion about how it's going whatever, But

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Speaker 1: since you're there, could you tell us about the dogs? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell us about the dogs. But maybe because of the

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Speaker 1: everyday stuff she covered, she managed to capture a side

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Speaker 1: of war time that many other journalists hadn't been able

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Speaker 1: to capture. In the book Her War Story, Twentieth Century

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Speaker 1: Women Write About War, which is edited by Sair P. Sheldon,

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Speaker 1: one of Collette's articles from ver Dunn is published here

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Speaker 1: in full. And that's great because otherwise you'd have to

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Speaker 1: read it in French, and I could not find another

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Speaker 1: English one could not brush up my high school French

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Speaker 1: well enough to capture a whole article. In this article,

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Speaker 1: Collette describes getting to the front and asking the Le

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Speaker 1: Marche family who's the couple that she's staying with? What's

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Speaker 1: going on? And then I m our complain that the

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Speaker 1: upholsterer is selling butter. That's actually Margarine. The piano merchant

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Speaker 1: has a shipment of sardines for sale. They're charging insane

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Speaker 1: prices for a single vegetable. You know, they're just giving

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Speaker 1: all these like that's not what I asked for. And

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Speaker 1: Collette kind of loses her temper and she's like, the war,

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Speaker 1: for God's sake, how's the war going? People? Obviously it's

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Speaker 1: a war on and they kind of chuckle. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's going. Don't worry. There's a war. Yeah, the war. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's still happening. Don't you worry about the thing. There

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Speaker 1: is still a war, if that's what you're worried about.

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Speaker 1: Collette goes on to say, quote, I deserve that reply.

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Speaker 1: It did not take me a week to realize that.

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Speaker 1: Here and very donne Chocco block full of troops with

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Speaker 1: the railway it's unique supply line. War becomes a habit,

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Speaker 1: the inseparable cataclysm of life, as natural as thunder and rainstorms.

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Speaker 1: But the danger, the real danger, is that one may

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Speaker 1: soon not be able to eat. You know. The piano merchant,

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Speaker 1: he's a piano merchant. He's supposed to be selling pianos,

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Speaker 1: but instead he's dealing in sardine. The upholsterer is dealing

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Speaker 1: about butter. Now they're not doing any of their normal ship.

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Speaker 1: Everything has been suspended in favor of finding and selling food.

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Speaker 1: That is the number one. Nobody gives a funk about piano.

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Speaker 1: Nobody's buying a piano. They want a leak, you know,

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Speaker 1: they want a piece of bread. And that's insane to me,

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Speaker 1: because of course, our global supply chain is so different

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Speaker 1: now that it's like kind of impossible to imagine that.

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Speaker 1: It's just completely different. Now. It's impossible to think about

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Speaker 1: not being able to find an egg, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, We're having to go down to lows to

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Speaker 1: buy margarine. Imagine, I mean you go to the Ace

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Speaker 1: Hardware and they're like, what do you want sardines? All

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Speaker 1: we got is sardines hardware. We're now we're a sardware

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Speaker 1: as in Sardines Sardware Friendly neighborhood, sardine sardine supplier, or

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Speaker 1: a co op. Collet goes on to describe bombs falling continually,

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Speaker 1: not causing many casualties, but people complain about their gardens

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Speaker 1: being ruined and their sheds being smashed. One lady had

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Speaker 1: to hide from quote a veritable hail of shrapnel. But

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Speaker 1: her main complaint was, quote, just imagine. I had to

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Speaker 1: take shelter under the porte cochere of ex family and

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Speaker 1: we're not even on speaking terms. I love our human

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Speaker 1: no matter what's going on around. UM. We all know

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Speaker 1: about the shrapnel, but listen to this. I had to

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Speaker 1: be polite to a family I don't like. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I feel sorry for me. Collette spent about three months

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Speaker 1: in Verdun, and then she spent most of her time

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Speaker 1: moving back and forth from Paris to the front, writing

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Speaker 1: her war reports. In nineteen fifteen, she escaped to Rome

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Speaker 1: as a journalist for Limit, and her next door neighbor

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Speaker 1: was a writer and fighter pilot named Gabrielle de Nunzio,

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Speaker 1: who would become one of her lovers, and by nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventeen she and Enri de Juvenel returned to Paris. He

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Speaker 1: had a diplomatic mission, and she had written a film

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Speaker 1: adaptation of her book about her time on the stage,

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Speaker 1: The Vagabonds that we talked about in the last episode.

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Speaker 1: UM that was about to begin filming, and that made

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Speaker 1: her one of the first authors to be involved in

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Speaker 1: the new medium of cinemas. Collette also survived the Spanish

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Speaker 1: flu pandemic, although some of her closest friends died from it.

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Speaker 1: So this is just a super tragic time. People are

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Speaker 1: dying from war, They're dying from disease. It's like some

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Speaker 1: end time ship. Can't relate, right, what's that? But by

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Speaker 1: the Great War was over and Enri was positioning himself

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Speaker 1: for a political career. He charmed a lot of people

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Speaker 1: by leading this campaign to have an unknown soldier buried

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Speaker 1: at the art to trio, Was he the one who

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Speaker 1: got it there? Because we went and saw Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he led that campaign. It worked. Everybody was like cool,

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Speaker 1: that guy is awesome, and it kind of like helped

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Speaker 1: to launch him as a national figure. Well, look at that.

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Speaker 1: We've we've seen part of this story, yeah, part of it.

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Speaker 1: We might have seen other things. I imagine we went

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Speaker 1: to some maybe one of the cafes we went to

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Speaker 1: Collette had sat at once or twice in her life. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we might have had one of our butts in the

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Speaker 1: same chair as Collette, but got around. Uh. Now. Henri

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Speaker 1: was also an early adopter and a strong supporter of syndicalism,

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Speaker 1: which was a belief that political structures are inherently corrupt

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Speaker 1: and that organized workers, through their trade unions, should control society.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that sounds pretty good to me, right,

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Speaker 1: animal parious idea. In nineteen nineteen, maybe because of the

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Speaker 1: demands of his new diplomatic and his like political career

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Speaker 1: he's putting together, he made Collette the literary editor of

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Speaker 1: Lametan in, a newspaper where they worked, even though their

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Speaker 1: relationship was becoming more and more strained over his many

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Speaker 1: infidelities and absences. Not that Colette isn't getting her own

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Speaker 1: on the side here as well, right because besides this

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Speaker 1: guy de nuncio. In Italy, some people think that she

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Speaker 1: had an affair with her friend, a Parisian actress named Musidora,

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Speaker 1: and Musidora played Irma Vepp in a ten episode series

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Speaker 1: called Le Vampire. Mussadra also co wrote and co directed

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Speaker 1: Collette's film adaptation of the vagabond Mr Doris Pretty coolsa

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Speaker 1: is pretty honest. And in nineteen twenty eight, years after

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Speaker 1: marrying Henri, she would finally meet his son from his

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Speaker 1: first marriage, Bertrand but before we get to that, we've

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Speaker 1: got some cool queer history to cover, so let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick commercial break. So welcome back to the show everyone,

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Speaker 1: And in this whole series about Collette, we have just

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Speaker 1: been absolutely dying to talk about why Paris was such

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Speaker 1: a haven for lesbians and all like these fascinating ways

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Speaker 1: that LGBTQ people have found to communicate with one another

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Speaker 1: in secrecy. So we saw this information from across the

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Speaker 1: bar and we really loved its vibes. So let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick fling with history to learn about lavender languages

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Speaker 1: and gay perry. Yes, so even before the end of

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Speaker 1: World War One, as we've learned in our two previous

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Speaker 1: Collette episodes, being a lesbian in Paris wasn't that big

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Speaker 1: of a deal. That's because the French Revolution decriminalized homosexuality

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Speaker 1: in provided people were discreet, okay, And after that the

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Speaker 1: queer scene flourished, especially in the Belle epoc era of

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Speaker 1: the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. So, like we

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Speaker 1: talked about Natalie Clifford Barney, the Queen of the Lesbians,

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Speaker 1: who ran a weekly salon from nineteen o nine until

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, this is a weekly salon. She's still

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Speaker 1: on parties every week for like six years. They were

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Speaker 1: attended by famous lesbians like Gertrude Stein and her partner

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Speaker 1: Alice Toklas. The culture trip dot com says, quote, there's

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Speaker 1: not a famous modernist or lesbian, let alone a lesbian

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Speaker 1: modernist who lived in Paris at that time who did

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Speaker 1: not pass through her doors. Gertrude Stein and Alice Toklas

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Speaker 1: also hosted salons where they launched the careers of painters

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Speaker 1: like Matisse and Picasso. Culture Trip goes on to say, quote,

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Speaker 1: it was the visibility and vivacity with which sapphick desire

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Speaker 1: could be fulfilled in Paris, albeit relative to your position

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Speaker 1: in the pecking order, that made it, as far as

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Speaker 1: lesbians were concerned, the queer capital of Europe, even more

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Speaker 1: so than Berlin. Women who had the money and freedom

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Speaker 1: to travel, came from the UK, the USA and across

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Speaker 1: Europe to attend salons such as Barney's and drink and

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Speaker 1: dance in the city's lesbian bars. So you know, again,

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Speaker 1: check check the privilege. If you had money, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you had a title like we talked about with Missy,

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Speaker 1: it was a bit easier for you to be out

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Speaker 1: and proud than it was for just a regular poor

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Speaker 1: chambermaid or something right right, well, and how often has

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Speaker 1: that been true? Where you know, if you have the means,

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Speaker 1: you are offered a bit more freedoms than than different

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Speaker 1: rules apply. Yeah, you're you're cute. Things become a little

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Speaker 1: cute quirks and eccentricities instead of criminal behavior. Right well,

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Speaker 1: in different rules apply, and different opportunities are afforded to you,

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Speaker 1: like you can actually go to these salons and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, right exactly, freedom to travel definitely page part

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Speaker 1: of that. Um. And after the casualties of World War One,

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Speaker 1: of course, there were so few healthy young men left

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Speaker 1: in Paris that this only got more pronounced in the

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties. So I was already a big scene.

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Speaker 1: And then after all these men were killed, um, there

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Speaker 1: were fewer men, more lesbians. One of these bars was

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Speaker 1: called La Monocle, and it was in the montmart neighborhood

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Speaker 1: of Paris, and women would show up wearing full tuxedos,

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Speaker 1: monocles and men's shoes. Obviously great pictures, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I'll bet oh man, classy, everybody out there looking like

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Speaker 1: Diane Keaton. I know, right, I always wanted like a

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Speaker 1: really well cut tuxedo. I think it would be such

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Speaker 1: a cool, like, it's this hot look. Now, you'd look

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Speaker 1: great in tuxedo. Now. Of course, who ruined all this

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Speaker 1: The Nazis. To the Nazis, they came in screwed a

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Speaker 1: lot of this up. But later in ninety sixties, six

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Speaker 1: Eve St Laurent brought the legacy of La monocula to

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Speaker 1: high fashion, where he unveiled his women's tuxedo loo smoking

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Speaker 1: on a Paris runway because it's smoking hot. As culture

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Speaker 1: trip dot com notes, quote, it was at once a

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Speaker 1: radical statement of female empowerment amid the decades sexual revolution,

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Speaker 1: and a nod with all the world watching to the

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Speaker 1: free living, free loving lesbians who first donned the look.

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Speaker 1: And it's so I mean, definitely look this up and

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Speaker 1: we'll try to share some pictures. But it's really cool

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Speaker 1: to see all these women gathered together and some of

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Speaker 1: them are femed out, they're wearing beautiful dresses, but most

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Speaker 1: of them are wearing this full tuxedo monocle look, and

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Speaker 1: they have their hair slicked back and everything, and it's

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Speaker 1: just really cool to like see them chilling and looking

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Speaker 1: so awesome. Apparently a lot of them would wear full

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Speaker 1: length blankets down the street, like to smuggle themselves in

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Speaker 1: kind of and they wud like throw dat I look

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Speaker 1: like ship, but actually look at faith. That's some like

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Speaker 1: what's his name? In the Hunger Games. If you could

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Speaker 1: show up in something that's all rags and then you

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Speaker 1: do a spin and it burst into flames, then it's

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Speaker 1: this hot tuxedo. I wish I would wear that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but in most of the gay world, even in the

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Speaker 1: Roaring twenties, visibility was just a chance to get beaten up, blackmailed,

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Speaker 1: jailed or killed because of course there's still illegal in

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Speaker 1: most places. UM. And so there were a variety of

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Speaker 1: codes that were used to kind of communicate within the

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Speaker 1: queer community who you were, and like if you knew

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Speaker 1: the code, you were a safe person to talk to.

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Speaker 1: And if you didn't, great, now I know you're not safe.

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Speaker 1: Like that was the point of that. UM. Lavender was

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Speaker 1: the color most associated with homosexuality, so these codes and

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Speaker 1: slang are called lavender languages, and sometimes the codes were

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Speaker 1: in the language of flowers, very important, the language of hours.

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Speaker 1: It's not really a thing anymore as much as it

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Speaker 1: used to be. But like it used to, like if

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Speaker 1: you sent a yellow rose to someone at the wrong time,

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Speaker 1: it was like a big So the language of flowers

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Speaker 1: pretty well known. Women would give each o their bouquets

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Speaker 1: of violets to express interest in a romance. Oh well,

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00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: what do you do if you just if you're like

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Speaker 1: to turn that down? Do you like? Hand? Thank you

403
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: so much? Um here will you hold these for me?

404
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: I have to just step out for a minute, you know,

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Speaker 1: where do you go plant them? You could probably throw

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Speaker 1: him on the ground, stomp on him. Pretty rude, very rude.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. And that month that's a that's an

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Speaker 1: interesting one too, because if you didn't know the code

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, thank you, it is

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Speaker 1: oka like suddenly the other ladies like great awkward things

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Speaker 1: in sue oh man, and she's following around. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a rom com the Violet I would I

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Speaker 1: would totally watch a violence about. Yeah. She gives them

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Speaker 1: to her violet fems. She hands them over, she thinks

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00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: she accepted them. They start paneling around. The woman who

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Speaker 1: received the flowers thinks she's got a new best friend. Right.

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Speaker 1: The woman who gave the flowers thinks that this they're

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Speaker 1: in love with each other. By the end, they realized

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Speaker 1: that the flowers they loved were the friends they had

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Speaker 1: all along. I don't know somebody else should write this.

421
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: I was going to say, world, it's be so funny

422
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: if it got if you got to use some of

423
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: that very flowery language that women and men would use

424
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: with each other, that now is like confusing. They're like,

425
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 1: I think they were gay, but they were just like

426
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: my love. They would just call everyone my love. That's

427
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: an additional problem where the girls like I I think

428
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: we just just steer my love do a girl saying

429
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: and the other woman's like, she really loves me. Yeah,

430
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: this is a misadventure in the making. Also, Oscar Wilde

431
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: invited his friends to where green incarnations in their lapels

432
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: to the premiere of Lady Windermere's Fan and according to

433
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: LGBT Cultural Heritage dot Com, that made it a fashion

434
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: among gay men to kind of signal to one another

435
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: who they were. So they would just choose a green

436
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: carnation for their button hole, and they'd see another green

437
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: carnation and be like, let me get into that button hole.

438
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: You know, I'm laughing because the idea that that's discreet,

439
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: Like if I wear a green carnation in my lapel,

440
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: it's a secret that I'm gay that no one will

441
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: pick up on. And I'm like, okay, look, I mean again,

442
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: I guess they really like if you knew, could you

443
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: even but you weren't gay yourself, would people even be like, oh, well,

444
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: you hang out with all the wrong people, you know,

445
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Well, if you don't know

446
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: and you just see it and you're like, hey, that's

447
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: a good look, green carnation on my lapel, then we've

448
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: got our b plot of the rom com. The guy

449
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 1: is like, oh, what a nice look. I'm gonna wear

450
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: a green carnation around And then his friend is like, oh, sir,

451
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: I had no idea you had such a good fashion sense.

452
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I love a good fashion sense. Like

453
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: let's go ride horses together. Also on LGBT Cultural Heritage

454
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: dot Com, it says that items of fashion accessories or

455
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: even small tattoos that could easily be covered up were

456
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: like other ways to sort of subtly advertise your sexuality.

457
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: I think it's handkerchiefs in your pocket now, right, But

458
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: maybe that was the early two thousands. I don't know

459
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: that's a thing anymore. That was like there was a

460
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: code which color you were wearing or something into Yeah,

461
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: it was that more like kink based I think. I

462
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: think like one color meant you were you were gay

463
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: and trying. But then there were other colors that were

464
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: like I'm in I'm a bottom, or like I'm into

465
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: type of kind of black and white polka dot handkerchief

466
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: that means you can you know, you can tie me

467
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: up in your dungeon. And some poor gal was handkerchiefs

468
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: like like the style, I keep getting the weirdest messages.

469
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: This is also a round coom that will play through time.

470
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: We'll have multiple like the hours timelines going on. And

471
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: so there's somebody in the modern era who's like, I

472
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: really like the black and white polka dot. Look. They

473
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: end up downstairs on a St. Andrew's cross. How did

474
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: this happen? It's better not awaken anything. And and then

475
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: the conversation dot Com talks about slang that people would

476
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: use like family or a club member, or a friend

477
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: of Dorothy's or a friend of Mrs King. There were

478
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: other ways to sort of carefully out yourself to someone else. Um.

479
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: Side note, I did look up the friend of Dorothy

480
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: because I've heard that before, and I thought that it

481
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: was a reference to liking Judy Garland, right. I thought

482
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: that was the initials She's like a gay icon. There

483
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: is not um precise origin of this phrase that's known,

484
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: but one belief people has this that it comes from

485
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: actually a sequel to one of the books of Wizard

486
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: of Oz call The Road to Oz. At one point,

487
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: the book introduces a character called Polychrome who meets Dorothy

488
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: and all her friends and says to Dorothy, quote, you

489
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: have some queer friends, Dorothy, and Dorothy replies the queerness

490
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: doesn't matter so long as they're friends, which is a

491
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: nice quote, and be you can see how that'd be

492
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: like secret code, right and Polychrome right there that like

493
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: a rainbow colors. Yeah. Also, that book did come out

494
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen o nine, so it would it would definitely

495
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: match up with our time period here. And gay people

496
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: at the time also co opted the word gay from

497
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: women prostitutes. They were using the word as slang to

498
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: describe women in their profession, and that didn't become synonymous

499
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: with homosexuality until after the Stonewall Riots of nineteen sixty nine.

500
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: Maybe the most fascinating lavender language that we found is polari,

501
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: which was a slang used in the UK. Like many

502
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: of these words and codes that were used by the

503
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: gay community, it had its roots and slang used by

504
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: marginalized communities. Right gay was female prostitutes, um, sailors used

505
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: a lot of this slang back in the day and

506
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: then like poor beggars and stuff like that. So it's

507
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: kind of co opted from already marginalized people, which makes

508
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: sense if you feel marginalized by society, kind of like oh,

509
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: that's my bro right here. Um. And once it made

510
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: its way to the UK, it also borrowed from Cockney

511
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: rhyming slang and back slang, which is when you pronounce

512
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: a word as if it's spelled backwards, which kind of

513
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: made me wonder if that's why Missy chose is sim

514
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: for her artist name. It was Missy Backwards and think

515
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: that was this kind of a sly reference to back

516
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: slang or the gay slang, to another way of saying, hey,

517
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: guess what, I'm not straight, Get the deal with it,

518
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: Like all the glasses come down. Pollari was particularly useful

519
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: because to anyone who didn't know it, it just did

520
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: like gibberish, total gibberish. So it concealed not only your sexuality,

521
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: but it also allowed you to talk shit about people,

522
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: which is very important to the gay community, at least

523
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: our friends very importantly able to talk to it. In

524
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 1: an article on the Conversation dot com by Paul Baker

525
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: called a Brief History of Pollari, he shares a phrase,

526
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: vada the enough strides on the yomi ajax, and that means,

527
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: look at the awful trousers on the man nearby. What

528
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: is that what they were saying about me? They were

529
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: talking about your naught strides. Every time I walk by

530
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: a group of people, I hear vada the enough strides

531
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: on them jacks. They're always saying that only when you're

532
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: wearing cargo shorts. I would never. First of all, well,

533
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: I would occasionally, but only for work when it was

534
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: like useful. Also, isn't it like it's been a long time.

535
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: I don't own any anymore, thank you very much. I

536
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: just want to get that on the record on the air.

537
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: Any pairs of cargo shorts or pants, there's no cargo

538
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: happening here. The slander out there about cargo shorts is incorrect.

539
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: But when I was working on set and I needed

540
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: a lot of pockets, they were very useful. It's true

541
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: they have their purposes. I also love it because you

542
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: kind of can't say it without having a cognit, Like

543
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: enough strays on the omi age act like you really

544
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: want to have an accent to say Now, he goes

545
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: on to say quote. Inserting a Pollari word such as bona,

546
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: which means good, or polone, which means woman, into a

547
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: sentence could act as a coded way of identifying other

548
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: people who might be gay. The language, itself, full of

549
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: camp irony, innuendo, and sarcasm, also helped its speakers to

550
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: form a resilient worldview in the face of arrest, blackmail,

551
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: and physical violence. Now they'd also give themselves names like

552
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: Scotch Flow or Diamond Lil, like drag names. What what's yours?

553
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: What would your ugie Diana rugie? What's my yeah? What

554
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: would be your your cool Pillari name? I don't know, Mr, Mr, Mr,

555
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: Mrs pretty good. I go with like, um, I feel

556
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: like you'd be sweet something, because oh, I'd be like

557
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if I like I don't know if

558
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: I want to be Sweetie, Sweet Caroline, Sweet Caroline, I'll

559
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: go with it. One of my least favorite songs. Don't

560
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: write to me about how it's good. I don't want

561
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: to hear it. It's a fucking stupid song and I

562
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: hate it. I don't think anyone's going to feel strongly

563
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: enough to write in defending Neil Diamond, Neil Diamond, Lil,

564
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: Neil Diamond, Lil. All Right. So on LGBT Cultural Heritage

565
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: dot Com they have this embedded video of a short

566
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: film which is entirely in Pollari. It's called Putting on

567
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: the Dish, and honestly it's really worth watching. You've got

568
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: to check it out because it really does sound like

569
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: an alien language. Now, Pollari fell out of favor once

570
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: homosexuality was legalized in the UK in the nineteen sixties,

571
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: but in two thousand three, a group calling themselves the

572
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence translated the Bible into Pollari. Now,

573
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: Paul Baker writes, quote this was not to mock religion,

574
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: but to highlight how religious practices are filtered through different

575
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 1: cultures and societies, and that despite not always being treated

576
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: well by mainstream religions. There should still be a space

577
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: for gay people to engage with religion. Yeah uh. In seventeen,

578
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: a church actually held a service reading from the Polari

579
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: translated Bible to commemorate LGBT History Month, and the church

580
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: actually ended up apologizing for the service. They said it

581
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: was led by trainees. The higher ups had in seeing

582
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: the word blah blah blah all according to the BBC,

583
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: but it gave us this little gem quote. Instead the

584
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 1: traditional glory be to the Father and to the Son

585
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: and the Holy Spirit. The prayer offered was fab miss

586
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: b to the amt and to the homey chevy and

587
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: to the fan tab Ylosa fairy, which, honestly, church definitely

588
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: would have engaged me more. I would like to praise

589
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: the Fantabulosa fairy. Paul Baker says that of course this

590
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: reading quote provoked a range of conflicting opinions. Some people

591
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: think it's hilarious, Some are concerned about Church of England

592
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: rules being broken and disrespect for religious tradition, while others

593
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: think that God should be prayed to in any language.

594
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: As someone who has spent twenty years documenting the rise

595
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: and fall of Polari, I find it fascinating that even

596
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: now it is finding new ways to cause controversy. Never

597
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: has a dead language had such an interesting afterlife. That's great.

598
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that this church okayed this and then

599
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: came back and, in a very Christian fashion, threw the

600
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: younger people under the bus. I was like, oh, that

601
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: wasn't us. We didn't approve that their fault. Don't blame me.

602
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Wasn't it christ who said, Uh, if you do something

603
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: people don't like, turn to your neighbor and blame them

604
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: for it. Throw a thy neighbor under the bus. All right?

605
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: Well that was a bit more of a long fling

606
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: with history. But hey, when it's good, it's good, right.

607
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: You know, we couldn't get enough very interesting. We had to.

608
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: We had to put that information in somewhere. This is

609
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: a good spot for it and that honestly, that's just

610
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: scratching the surface of lavender languages and gay codes. And

611
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: while they are very cool to learn about obviously, also

612
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: it kind of sucks that queer people needed a whole

613
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: fake language to hide themselves behind. Right, but it is

614
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: time to get back to collect and her life and

615
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: her loves. Right after this commercial break, famous b to

616
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: the sponsors in Homi Chavy's name, and welcome back to

617
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: the show, everybody. Alright, So back to Collette here. She

618
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: is the literary editor of Laman now and things are

619
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 1: getting rocky with Henri. Writing wise, Collette was still doing

620
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: plenty of journalism. She also started writing her book Sherry,

621
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: which she released as a serialized story over a number

622
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: of weeks, very common for writers back then. Makes sense too,

623
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: because you can sell your journal because everybody wants to

624
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: install exactly. It's like TV subscriptions now exactly now. Sherry

625
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: is a novelization of her affair with our favorite department

626
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: store Air August Ariotes talked about in Part two. His

627
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: character is kind of an indolent and spoiled young man

628
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: named Sherry, and he's having an affair with an older

629
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: courtesan named Leah. And about halfway through the serialization, Collette's

630
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: book kind of became a little more like reality when

631
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: she met Henri's son, Bertrand. Bertrand was sixteen years old

632
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: at this time. He's the son of Henri with his

633
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: first wife, Claire Boas, And even though Collette had been

634
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: married to Henri for eight years, she had not met

635
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: his kids, either Bertrand with Claire or the sun he

636
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: Ad with Isabelle de Comminges Um. But in Claire sent

637
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: Bertrand to stay with his dad and Collette as her emissary.

638
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: His mission, whether he chose to accept it or not,

639
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: was to get Collette to let Claire use her old

640
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: married title. Baroness. Did juvenel because Claire and Henri were divorced.

641
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: They're fully divorced, not married, but Claire still used the

642
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: title all the time because she found it useful in

643
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: her career as a political lobbyist. You're if you're you know,

644
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: a noble doors open for you that otherwise would not

645
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: open for you. Right. So she's like, this is good.

646
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: I need to get in with these pourful people. If

647
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm a baroness. They let me come. Let me use

648
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: this title. I get I get better, I get early

649
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: check in at all my hotels. Um, I get a

650
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, a fancy dinner each night, loyalty points right,

651
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: I can go to the front of the line at Disneyland.

652
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty nice. Aristocracy, man, Yes, the aristocrats

653
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: had some perks, you could say. But Collette did use

654
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: the title, okay, and she got very embarrassed and super

655
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: piste because she went to check into a hotel and

656
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: she was refused a room and regarded with a lot

657
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: of suspicion as an impostor because only a few days before,

658
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: Claire had checked into the hotel using the same title.

659
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: They're like, no, girl, we know who the baroness did

660
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: juvenel is and it ain't you. She was just here, okay.

661
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: So Colette was like, excuse me, your ex is still

662
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: using your name and she was not. My god, She's like,

663
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: I am supposed to have the early check in, but

664
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: this is my fast past mine. She gets to Disneyland

665
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: and they're like, I'm sorry, I'm you cannot go to

666
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: the front of Splash Mountain because the book says you

667
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: just did. When per customer, so Bertrand went to go

668
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: stay with Collette and try and work this mission out,

669
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: and he was immediately struck with Collette's undeniable presence. She's

670
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 1: a sexy lady, and she liked Bertrand right away too,

671
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: so much so that she decided she should finally meet Claire.

672
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: Collette said, quote, in the space of twenty minutes, we

673
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: established an old friendship. This is interesting how often Collette

674
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: would be friends with former enemies, because like she became

675
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: friends with Isabelle to comin Jay's like who tried to

676
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: murder her? You know she would she would eventually become

677
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: friends with most people. I think she really was, like

678
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: she was willing to overlook a lot of stuff eventually.

679
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: Well and how you know she just one of those

680
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: people who is always like zep, wretched woman, I cannot

681
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: stand her, and then spend five minutes there. Actually she's

682
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: very nice. I don't know what I was on about

683
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: before I do that sometimes just like this asshole, this

684
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: son of a bitch. I did not want to meet

685
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: this guy, and then to go meet him, and I'm like, stupid,

686
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: likable person, I want to spend more time with. You're

687
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: supposed to suck. Well, even though Collette and Claire were

688
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: totally digging each other, they seem to be good friends.

689
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: Claire was still hesitant when Collette later invited Bertrand to

690
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: spend the summer with her and Henri at rose Ven

691
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: and Claire only gave into this when Andre basically insisted,

692
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: But within a few days, even though Henri was like,

693
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: let my son come with me. We're going to spend

694
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: some time with my new wife. A few days in,

695
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: Henri took off, He left the coast to go back

696
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: to Paris to spend time with his mistress. Instead. He's like,

697
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: never mind, I don't want to spend time with my

698
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 1: wife and son. I wanted to spend all time with

699
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: my mistress, with whom I don't have a son currently

700
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 1: hopefully never will. So he left his stepson, Bertrand, and

701
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: the six year old Belle Gazoo with Collette and a

702
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: couple of her fancy friends. And maybe Claire was a

703
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: little nervous because Collette, you know, she still has her reputation.

704
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: She's a sexty lady. She's like kind of wild, she

705
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: talks about crazy stuff. Everybody's like she's licentious, and she

706
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: does her own things. So maybe that was, you know,

707
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: she was kind of like, what's she going to get

708
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: Bertrand into. Now. Collette, you know, very uninterested in her

709
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: own daughter, as we pointed out already for some reason,

710
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: decided to get into mothering Bertrand's instead. So she spent

711
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: her time fattening him up with like rich food, and

712
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: she taught him how to swim, She took him shopping,

713
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: she talked with him, about literature and art, and she

714
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: gave him books to read in louding Sherry her book

715
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: about a young man's affair with a much older woman, Goodness.

716
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: She even inscribed the book to my cherished Bertrand, with

717
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: the Sherry part of cherished like capitalized. What so like?

718
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: He's like, She's like, Bertrand, I have to make you

719
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: big and strong so that you can carry all these

720
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: hints that I'm dropping on you. They are very heavy. Well, finally,

721
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: one night she was done with hinting, I guess, and

722
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: she told him it's time for you to become a man.

723
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: She asked him which of the three women who were

724
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: staying at Rosbon her or one of her two friends

725
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: he preferred to initiate him into the pleasures and mysteries

726
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: of sex. Wo He's like, I guess, not my step mom,

727
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: and picked one of the other two. He did, He

728
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: pinted one of the friends. They went off together, but

729
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: it didn't go well. I don't know what happened. He

730
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,959
Speaker 1: doesn't get into a lot of detail. He just says

731
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: that he emerged from her room miserable and unsatisfied. But

732
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: when he came out the room, what did he see?

733
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: But Collette his stepmother waiting on the landing, and she

734
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: decided to finish the job. Oh my goodness. All right, well,

735
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: excuse me, but speculation station here real quick. Collette told

736
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: her two friends, if he picks you do a bad job,

737
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 1: don't don't like really just like be very aggressive and nasty,

738
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: and don't don't seduce him. Laugh at him. I want

739
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: him to come out and and look to me for guidance.

740
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: Maybe that's that feels very obvious to me. I'm laying

741
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: it down here. In speculations station is the cold heart truth.

742
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: All right, you know what happens in speculations station. We

743
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: Bertrand wrote later that it took quote all of her skills,

744
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: but she was demanding, voracious expert and rewarding absolutely. Suspicions confirmed.

745
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: She was waiting for this, I'm the one to do this.

746
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: Maybe she was hoping you would choose her and like

747
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: it was too weird for him to do. She's like, yeah, definitely,

748
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: that's why she gave her friends the heads up. If

749
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: he picks you make it bad, just don't be sexy. Yeah, yeah,

750
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: They're all like, oh, Bertrand, this is the part of

751
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: sex where I M stick this feather quill straight into

752
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: your ear the point the end, and it's like, I

753
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: don't know how I feel about this sex. They're like,

754
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: that's how it's done. None of my friends ever mentioned this.

755
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: This is the part where I just flick you in

756
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: the forehead ten times in a row, just whatever they

757
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: can do. Yeah, you know, yeah, that would kind of

758
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: be fun to get creative about being bad at sex.

759
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: She's like, Oh, my whole point is to turn him off. Uh,

760
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: write to us and tell us how you would intentionally

761
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 1: make sex bad, to try and trick someone in thinking

762
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: that sex isn't fun. Yes, yes, yes, please, Well Collette,

763
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: you know she knows what she's doing. She got him

764
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: fully initiated, and by the end of summer he was

765
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: obsessed with her. He was deeply in love, totally infatuated,

766
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: hearts all around. Oh boy. Now. Victoria Best on her

767
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: blog lit Love says that it's easy to call collect

768
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: a fem fatal who overpowered this young, poor boy's sensibilities, right,

769
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's definitely what it looks like. Gross. But

770
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: Bertrand's friends often said that he liked to make it

771
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: look like he was being pushed around and forced to

772
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: do things when in actuality, he never did anything he

773
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to do, so that could be a thing,

774
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: But that also could be his friends saying, oh, he

775
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: loves doing that stuff that we always push him around

776
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: and tell him to do. I know, right, how do

777
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: you know? That's kind of a weird self defensive thing

778
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: to sort of say, yeah, I think it would be

779
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 1: very strange today to be seven sleeping with a sixteen

780
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: year old and people would be cool with it, like yeah,

781
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: definitely not okay, definitely not good. And I just don't

782
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: trust his friends here necessarily because it's like, you know,

783
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: they got him to jump off a bridge and he's like,

784
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: didn't want to, and they're like, oh, he did. Want

785
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: to know, you don't understand. He always says please no, no, no,

786
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: but he means yes. It's basically what his friends are

787
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: saying here. I mean, yeah, I could. I could kind

788
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: of see it though, Because you could, you could also

789
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: there are people who are like, oh, yeah, do who

790
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: do that? You know, they just want to disclaim all responsibility,

791
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: so they say I don't want it, but they did

792
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: want it, you know. I mean again, I'm not saying

793
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: no is yes or anything like that, but you know,

794
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: they might have had a point to yeah, anyway, don't

795
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: if your forties seven, don't fuss senior down to yeah.

796
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: Victoria Best also says that even though at the time Willie,

797
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 1: remember Willie collects ex husband, her first husband the worst,

798
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: Willie made fun of her for gaining weight, saying that

799
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: she quote had an ass like the rear of a

800
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: stage coach, which doesn't tempt me to take a ride

801
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: in it, which is very rude, kind of funny, but

802
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: it's but she was still sexy and alluring, even or

803
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 1: maybe especially too much younger men. I will throw out that,

804
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, when you're researching. When I was researching this

805
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: part of the story, it gets a little gross because

806
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: not just because of the age difference, because at this

807
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: time people are like, but she's so old and dried

808
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: up and fat, you know, and like, how could this

809
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: young man be so attracted to her? And you know,

810
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people like, but she wasn't that old,

811
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: she's forty seven, like she's in her fifties or senior citizen.

812
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: She was still a very alerting, voluptuous, sexy woman. She

813
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: had very sensual presence about her because she enjoyed sex

814
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: and everything about sex. She already had this reputation of

815
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: being this sexy lady, bi sexual lady. I also will say,

816
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: they keep talking about her being fat, but like she

817
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: weighed up two hundred and eighty pounds, so it's like, yeah,

818
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: it's it's like a little weird to talk about her

819
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: like she's, you know, a six pound woman or something. Right, Right,

820
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: she wasn't really so overweight that it was really worth

821
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: a comment, right, you know, well, you know, hops amongst

822
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: us wait worthy of a comment, you know, very true,

823
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: extremely true. And Colet herself fell into this trap. She

824
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: she had a very very narrow definition of beauty, so

825
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: she's she herself was like, I'm old and dried up

826
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: and fat, and everyone else around her was kind of

827
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: saying that too. So it's a little gross to go

828
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: through this part because you're especially as a woman, you're going, wow,

829
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 1: you know, you get a little bit, get past childbearing age,

830
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: and suddenly you're dried up, old, prune right, not worthy

831
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: of any attention. So you know, just just throwing that

832
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: out there to say, plenty of people see why Bertrand

833
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: was interested. He was like, this is a hot, older

834
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: lady who was going to teach me all the tricks.

835
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: But you know, even though he's very attracted to her,

836
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: her motives are a little less easy to see here.

837
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: Like the autumn of the year that she seduced Bertrand,

838
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: she wrote Henri a letter saying, quote, if only you

839
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: knew how much I love you and how much I've

840
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: suffered from the fear of losing you this year. You

841
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: know my desire I have only one. It has your

842
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: face and your form and the term of my life.

843
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: It's just she's writing that at p S. I'm sleeping

844
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: with your son. But don't worry about that. I only

845
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: have eyes for you. I just have I have other

846
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: things for your son. Your son's the closest I could

847
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: get to you right now. Yeah, maybe that's it. Maybe

848
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 1: that's it. But Unri still stayed away, Like these letters

849
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: weren't bringing him home. So maybe you know, like we said,

850
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: maybe she needed this ego boost of a younger lover.

851
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: Maybe it was just like a way to stick it

852
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: to Unre by sleeping with his hunter. Maybe like you said,

853
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: it's the closest she could get to him was his son.

854
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: Maybe she just needed somebody to hold. You know, I've

855
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: just been lonely and feeling old and undesirable when here

856
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: comes someone who will make her feel good about herself.

857
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: So that could be it. And how much of that too,

858
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: if you're feeling old, if you're someone who's you know,

859
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: her existence is kind of defined by desirability and sexuality

860
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: and stuff, and it sort of makes you feel younger.

861
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: Like I think oftentimes when older people are attracted too

862
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: much younger people, they really just want to feel like

863
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: they're still that age themselves. Sure, absolutely that that makes sense.

864
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 1: You know, if I date a twenty year old, then

865
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: aren't I kind of still twenty? You know? Well yeah,

866
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: well sure in a way, right, Like you would have

867
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: acquaintances and friends who are younger. Your circle would get

868
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: a lot younger. So then you're you know, like I

869
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: could see it being kind of a feeling of like

870
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm giving myself a second use. And then they go

871
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: up a staircase and you're like, hey, I'll be right there.

872
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: You're like crack crack, crack, crack crack on your knees

873
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: or just in concert. So when Claire came to get

874
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: bertrand take him home at the end of the summer,

875
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: she knew he had been corrupted by his time with Collette.

876
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: She's like, something's different about you. He's got a swagger now,

877
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: but he did not have before. She may be even

878
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: guess that they were having an affair. She didn't know

879
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: exact was going on, but she knew that Coletts maybe

880
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: a bad influence on my son. So for the next

881
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: ten months, Claire would urge Honri to get Bertrand work

882
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: that would take him just as far away as possible

883
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: from Colette. And by Andre was elected to the Senate,

884
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: so he had plenty of opportunities for Bertrand's like, he

885
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 1: would find him internships and stuff. But the next summer,

886
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: Bertrand would go back to rosven and spend his time

887
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: with Colette, and they would resume their affair. The Guardian,

888
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: and an article titled Femiciele says quote she was acting

889
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 1: on a principle she would enunciate to a friend, content yourself,

890
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: I urge you with a passing temptation, and satisfy it.

891
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: What more can one be sure of than that which

892
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: one holds in one's arms at the moment one holds

893
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 1: it in one's arms, Which we had talked already about.

894
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: Colette's kind of like philosophy of life, which is grab

895
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: as much experience as you can, and all you get

896
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: is this one life kind of thing. But also like

897
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: put yourself in the world after a world war which

898
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: had never happened before. All the rules changed, the borders changed,

899
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: everything is different. It must have felt very much like

900
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: the only thing I can believe in and and have

901
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: faith in is what's exactly happening right now, And the

902
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: next moment is not promised to me, and I have

903
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: no idea what it's going to look like right Everything

904
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: could be different tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, interesting. So I think

905
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: that's sort of almost a phil like a a principle.

906
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: A lot of people were feeling at this time, not

907
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: just Collette, but a lot of people were like, what

908
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 1: the funk? I have no idea what's happening anymore? Just

909
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: let me grab a tiny bit of pleasure while I can. Also,

910
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 1: can we talk about the use of the pronoun one

911
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: in some of these old quotes very involved. One is

912
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 1: never sure what one's one is going to think about

913
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: one's other one, and one must be one sort of

914
00:55:54,600 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: oneself to wonder what one one what? Which I mean? Today,

915
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: I was trying to like modernize it and I guess

916
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: I think you would just say, you, what more can

917
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: you be sure of than that which you hold in

918
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: your arms at this moment you hold it in your arms,

919
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: which obviously makes more sense to me. But I guess

920
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: if you're Collette, that would sound like, well, I'm not

921
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: talking to you general, but like it does. You go

922
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: back and you're like, some of these sentences are so

923
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: involved and they're incredibly difficult. So I get through because

924
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: it's almost like newspaper talk where you're trying to be

925
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: like a bullet flew out of a gun held by

926
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: a guy might have been in the army, Like you're

927
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: trying so hard not to libel somebody that like you.

928
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: Now you're not making any sense. Thanks for the ap

929
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 1: English language homework. Let me diagram this sentence real quick.

930
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,959
Speaker 1: Get back to you. I gotta pull my shrunken white

931
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 1: for this. So after all this, Bertrand started to seek

932
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: Collect more openly, going out with her any time he

933
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: was in Paris and even taking a two week trip

934
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 1: to Algeria with her. Their relationship was still a secret,

935
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: and Collect tried harder than ever to kind of stop

936
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: her own signs of aging. She got both a facelift

937
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: and a perm when they were both brand new procedures

938
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: which some bravery involved. There. I think, to get a

939
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: facelift when no one like bravery or desperation or desperation

940
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: or keen marketing and and and gullibility. I just like

941
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: how fashion worked. You know, if something new, some new

942
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: fad came out, it was really important to be one

943
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: of the first to have it, to try it or

944
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: do it. So that might have been enough. I'll also say, um,

945
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people talk about Sherry a lot because

946
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: some people think that it's about Bertrand. Um. But of

947
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: course she had already started writing it before she ever

948
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: met Bertrand, so it's not really about him. But Leiah

949
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: Leah the Cortisan and the story. She's like older and

950
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: she's very um. She's able to take it like she's

951
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: kind of like, I I understand that I'm older. It's fine,

952
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 1: I can face my aging. There's even a whole passage

953
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: about her looking in the mirror and seeing her wrinkles

954
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: and and and sagging and whatever else she doesn't like

955
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: about herself, and she's like, but it's okay, I'm still

956
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: me and it's all right. And they're like it's funny

957
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: that Kolek could write that and not herself do it,

958
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,919
Speaker 1: Like like she's writing what she wishes she could feel

959
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: feel exactly, and how she wishes she could handle the

960
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: situation well. And I'll say, it always seems to me

961
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: reading this story, like, no, it wasn't about Bertrand because

962
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: she hadn't met him yet when she wrote the story.

963
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: But it was a fantasy that she wanted to live.

964
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: She wanted to be Leah and be comfortable with herself aging,

965
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: and she wanted to meet a young man who would

966
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 1: fall in love with her. So when she met Bertrand,

967
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: it was more about him fulfilling this fantasy, you know.

968
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: So it almost seems like she was kind of looking

969
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: for the opportunity. And yeah, maybe so he even said

970
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: that Bertrand said she wanted to live what she had written. Now,

971
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: the only thing that I take exception too is that

972
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: she had already lived it with a goose That's who

973
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: she was writing story about, so she had I don't

974
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: know that she maybe she just wanted to do it again,

975
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: that's fine, but but yeah, I think mainly the main

976
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: thing is Collette had a really hard time not feeling

977
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: desirable as a woman in sexy and as she got

978
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: older that got more and more difficult for her. She

979
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: actually also had to undergo a bunch of dental surgery,

980
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: and she complained, quote, why can't one simply have all

981
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: ones teeth pulled and replaced them with green jade? Which

982
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: that's quite a grill. I just, first of all, I

983
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: just feel that because I need a lot of dental work,

984
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, fucking just take them, gave them

985
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: out and give me something else. They're just full of holes,

986
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: Just take them away. Um. But green jade is such

987
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: a strange choice because green is like the color of rot. Oh.

988
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but teeth it's more like black, right, I guess. Although,

989
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: remember when we did the episode about Murasaki Shikibu, yeah,

990
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: and the Tale of Genshi, we talked about how their

991
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: beauty standards at that time were to charcoal in your

992
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: teeth and make them look black. So maybe green jade

993
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: was like a real beautiful color at that time or something,

994
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: and it was like, just give me that grill. She

995
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: just wanted to flash that she have a full gold

996
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: and diamond girl if she was alive time. But in

997
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: unre revealed that he had secured Bertrand a job in Prague.

998
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: Collett didn't want him to move so far away from her,

999
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: and in the argument that ensued, the truth about their

1000
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: relationship came out, and one source it says that Collette

1001
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: begged on her knees for Henri to stay with her.

1002
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: But as Victoria Best writes, quote, despite being in the

1003
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: middle of a heavy affair with a woman to whom

1004
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: he had already promised marriage, unreacted like the injured party

1005
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: and wanted to divorce. Classic. So he's off sleeping with

1006
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 1: somebody else and had said, Hey, I'll marry you. And

1007
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: then he's like, what, you're sleeping with my son? That

1008
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: breaks my heart. Now I think I might leave you,

1009
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: Like come on, all right, come on now. I have

1010
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: questions about that because, um, maybe because she did have

1011
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: other affairs, so like did he not know about those

1012
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: affairs or was he like, my son's just going too far,

1013
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: which I could kind of relate to that, Like he's like,

1014
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: I didn't care about the Nunzio, I didn't give a

1015
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: funk about that actress, but my son is off limits. Girl, Yeah,

1016
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: you are too old to be working with him. Also,

1017
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: like it's weird to be sleeping with the same person

1018
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: as my son. This is He's like, I ain't, I

1019
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: ain't Indiana Jones, Oh no, I don't want to be

1020
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: sleeping with the same guy as my kid, but the

1021
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,959
Speaker 1: same girl as my kid. Come on that she talks

1022
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: in her sleep. I'd also love to know this argument

1023
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: and how who how it came out that they were

1024
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: sleeping together. What would be the point of saying that?

1025
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: Were exhausted and she was like, well, keeping me company.

1026
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: She must have got real mad and wanted to say

1027
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: something hurt it hurtful. Well he's better in bed than

1028
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: you or something like that, and he was like, excuse me,

1029
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: how would you know? And she's like, guess what turns out?

1030
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: But even after helping cause a rift between his father

1031
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: and his stepmother, which did make him uncomfortable, Bertrand decided

1032
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: to move in with Colette, so he was doubling down

1033
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: on this relationship and seeing them together was, according to

1034
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: the Guardian article, quote the sport of Paris, which nobody liked. Um,

1035
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: they were gossiped about, they were snickered at. Guardian says,

1036
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: quote only occasionally to Colette's letters betray the effort. It

1037
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: took in the months after her separation from Juvenile to

1038
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,919
Speaker 1: conceal her heartbreak and humiliation. Remember, we learned she likes

1039
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: to save face, so she would never let people see

1040
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: her sweat. But um she often was very pained by

1041
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 1: the amount of scandal that she caused. Nobody likes to

1042
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: be the butt of a joke, so she she was

1043
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,919
Speaker 1: not happy during that time. When Henri's brother Robert died

1044
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: suddenly at forty two, Colette was not welcome at the funeral,

1045
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: and that made her really mad. And then she got

1046
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: even more mad when she found out that Henri and

1047
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: Claire had invited a beautiful young girl to the funeral

1048
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: as a provision for Bertrand. So by now, Henri is

1049
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: a delegate to the newly formed League of Nations, and

1050
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: he's a very successful politician, and thanks to him and Claire,

1051
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: Bertrand is neckt even politics as well. He's organizing a

1052
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: youth Congress, he's being invited to speak in the United States,

1053
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: and he's writing articles. His parents knew that they could

1054
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: use all this as leverage to get Bertrand away from

1055
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 1: Collette for good, so they introduced him to young Heiress

1056
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: and they set a wedding date for December. On the

1057
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: day of their engagement dinner, Bertrand went to see Collette

1058
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: and he told her he didn't want to marry this girl.

1059
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: So Collett's like, well, then why go, and Bertrand wrote,

1060
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: quote all the same, I decided to go, and I

1061
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: was leaving the garden went from the window. A piece

1062
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 1: of paper drifted down to me. I love you, it said,

1063
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: which Colette had never told me, and I went back

1064
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: up to her. That's pretty dark, I mean that. Yeah,

1065
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: when someone's leaving in you're like, but I love you

1066
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: and you never said it before, which was also a manipulation.

1067
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: Probably come on now, that's not cool now. Claire persisted, though,

1068
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: even though he broke off this one engagement, She's life,

1069
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: I'm not done with you. So she sent Bertrand to

1070
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: Can for his health quote unquote for his health. That

1071
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: was really just to get him away from Collette, and

1072
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: she had a new young woman all lined up for

1073
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: Bertrand to marry the time. It was Marcel Pratt, the

1074
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: daughter of a distinguished dramatist. First of all, only in

1075
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: France it does an aristocratic family be like, I will

1076
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: have you marry someone of my choosing a dramatist you

1077
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: like here, that's like who you want to scare you

1078
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: kids away from? Mary? Don't marry a dramatist is theater person? No?

1079
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: Run run? What did marry a lawyer? Now? Claire made

1080
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: all the travel arrangements. So when Bertrand showed up at

1081
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: his hotel and can who was in the room next

1082
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: door but Marcel, So she and Bertrand got engaged second

1083
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: times a charm Nope, not if Collette had anything over it.

1084
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: She also showed up at the hotel with a group

1085
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: of friends and she asked Bertrand to have dinner with her. Damn,

1086
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: which he did do. Of course he did, of course

1087
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: he did. Um He did not bring a date, but

1088
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 1: collected it was Maurice gu Decay, a man who was

1089
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: seventeen years younger than her. Maybe she is trying to

1090
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: make Bertrand jealous. I can find another one to replace

1091
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: you anymore. And at the end of the night, Collette

1092
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: asked Bertrand to join her in her room at the hotel,

1093
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: and there she's like, are you ready to move back

1094
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: in with me? Let's do this for real? You know.

1095
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: They had this real profound conversation about their future. He

1096
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: said he was quote ready to spend my life with her,

1097
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: but by the morning they both agreed it was impossible.

1098
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: In the light of day. It was like your forty

1099
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: seven and I'm sixteen. I guess at this point he's

1100
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 1: like twenty. But still everyone in our lives is actively

1101
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: trying to make sure we don't end up together. Maybe

1102
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: there's a good reason for that, okay. And at some

1103
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: point Bertrand I'm sure is thinking of like a family

1104
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: life for himself, and that's not He's not going to

1105
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: have that with Colette. He can't have children with her.

1106
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: He can't, you know, like, it's just not reasonable. So

1107
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: come on, if we did have a kid together, he'd

1108
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: be my son, would be my own step brother. True

1109
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: does get a little involved, doesn't it. So anyway, they

1110
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: ended up parting ways for good at this point. The

1111
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: Guardian article goes on to say, quote Bertrand never received

1112
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 1: the letter Collette wrote him that Marcel Pratt intercepted and destroyed,

1113
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: though not before she'd memorized the content. When she admitted

1114
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: the theft years later, she could still recite Collette's parting words,

1115
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: one would love to know them. Would Marcel destroyed history. Okay,

1116
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: I want to know Collette's parting words. They must have

1117
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: been pretty amazing for Marcel to memorize them like that.

1118
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: Do you think Marcell ever wrote them down somewhere? It

1119
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: sounds like something Carmen San Diego would steal hidden message

1120
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,160
Speaker 1: from Marcel that she wrote down, right. I love this

1121
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: idea of Marcel, like constantly with her ear, like her

1122
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: eye out her hotel door, like waiting for a message

1123
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 1: to Collette give, and she's like reading it, like crying,

1124
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: weeping about this beautiful poetic words that Colette wrote about Bertrande,

1125
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 1: and then she sets it on fire. I will never

1126
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: forget those words. I must destroy what I think is

1127
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: so beautiful now Bertrand, as Joel van Valen writes on

1128
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: Whistling Shade, went on to write political philosophy, and he

1129
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: also interviewed Hitler in the nineteen thirties. Side note, he

1130
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: was criticized for being too friendly with him. I guess

1131
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 1: softball questions for Hitler aren't too fondly looked upon. And

1132
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: Bertrande is now most famous for his quote A society

1133
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,919
Speaker 1: of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves.

1134
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: And Collette, as Victoria Best rights. Quote had faithfully followed

1135
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: in the footsteps of her heroine Leah in that she

1136
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: had taken a young, innocent boy and made him into

1137
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: a pampered, coseted man, and now he had left her

1138
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: from marriage and a bright career, while she was alone

1139
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,840
Speaker 1: and alienated from Henri and his family, with only the

1140
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: prospect of old age ahead of her. The end of

1141
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: this turbulent period in her life left Collette suffering more

1142
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: acutely than she had ever done before. The question was

1143
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: what would she do now? And that is the question

1144
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: for us as well, isn't it. That's right, But we're

1145
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: going to save that for part four of our Collette series,

1146
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: I think, the final part and final part of our

1147
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 1: Collette until new information comes to light, until we finally

1148
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,799
Speaker 1: find that letter from marself. She's got a hidden somewhere

1149
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to scour France. I mean, seriously, though,

1150
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: you can't a letter to your boyfriend from his old,

1151
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: much older lover and stepmother that you memorized and kept

1152
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 1: memorized for years. It must have been such an amazing

1153
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: piece of writing, and I am furious with her for

1154
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: getting rid of it. It's out there somewhere we're going

1155
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: to pull a full like uncharted for this letter. On

1156
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: the back of the U. S Constitution, she wrote it,

1157
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 1: give me to write this down. What was this US?

1158
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 1: You could have that back about that. Also interesting about

1159
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,719
Speaker 1: Bertrand being so friendly with Hitler is that his mother, Claire,

1160
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: was a Jewish woman. Um, so he was part Jewish. Now,

1161
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: of course, early in the thirties, you know, Hitler and

1162
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 1: his Nazi party had done very little and they were

1163
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 1: just a political party at that time, so maybe he

1164
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: was friendly quote unquote, and they thought it was like

1165
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 1: in retrospect thought it was too friendly, but at the

1166
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:54,640
Speaker 1: time it was a very normal way to talk to

1167
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 1: that guy. I don't know, but I want to know

1168
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: more about Maurice Gutiquet, this poor kid who just got

1169
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: brought in as a as a patsy on this date,

1170
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: Like what's his life like? Like he's just you know,

1171
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: walking on the street one day and this hot older

1172
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 1: woman grabs him, was like, you're my date tonight, okay, sure,

1173
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: and then get totally passed off, left behind while she

1174
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: invites this guy up to her room. I mean, Taylor,

1175
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: as old as time. If you're brought in as the

1176
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: jealous date, right, Yeah, I guess so. Well, Tailor is

1177
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,479
Speaker 1: old as time. You will meet Maurice again because he

1178
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: gets more, he gets more, don't worry big part of

1179
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: part four part don't forget Maurice. He's very important. Well,

1180
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: I'm so excited and I can't wait for the for

1181
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: the final question mark part of the Collette series next Wednesday.

1182
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: I hope you all enjoy this episode. Yeah, I hope so.

1183
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 1: I think this is such a crazy part of her life,

1184
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: and Collet is just such a complicated, interesting person. There's

1185
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: just no one way to feel about her. So I've

1186
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 1: I really am enjoying going through her whole life and

1187
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: having such ups and downs. Fascinating. Well, please let us

1188
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: know what you thought. You can email us ridic Romance

1189
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com right or we're on Twitter and Instagram.

1190
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 1: I'm at Dynamite Boom and I'm at Oh Great, It's

1191
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 1: Eli and the show is at ridic Romance. So let

1192
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: us know your thoughts. Let us know how you would

1193
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: make sex uncomfortable for someone who's never had it before,

1194
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: if you want to prove to them that it's not fun.

1195
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: And while you're at it, drop us a review on

1196
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Yeah, and we'll see all of the next

1197
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 1: episodes and love you bye, so long friends, it's time

1198
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: to go. Thanks. So listening to our show tell your

1199
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: friends names uncles indes to listen to a show ridiculous.

1200
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: Roll n