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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're talking investing lessons from a gambling

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Speaker 1: pro with Chris Hannah. What does it take to become

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Speaker 1: a professional gambler? That's the overarching question that we're asking

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Speaker 1: our guest today, Chris Hannah. Chris graduated with a degree

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Speaker 1: in finance and economics, but then he turned down a

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Speaker 1: solid job on Wall Street in order to become a

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Speaker 1: legit blackjack player, Like literally, less than twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: after he graduated, Chris hit the road and he began

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Speaker 1: counting cards for a living. And so, now, you know,

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Speaker 1: we believe that investing that that is a far cry

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Speaker 1: from gambling, but a lot of folks are treating them

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Speaker 1: more similarly than they'd like to admit. So, yeah, where

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Speaker 1: should we draw the line between gambling and investing. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna unpack Chris Hannah's story. We're gonna talk about his

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Speaker 1: shift to personal finance, um and yeah, share how we

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Speaker 1: can strategically use our money to build an exciting life. Chris,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Hey guys, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here. Chris.

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Speaker 1: We're glad to have you. And the first question we

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Speaker 1: ask anybody who stops by to visit the head of

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Speaker 1: Money Show is what do you like to splour? John?

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Speaker 1: Because Matt and I we we like to drink craft beer,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes we spend way too much on it, or

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Speaker 1: at least what some people would deem way too much

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Speaker 1: for drinking one right now, a brown ale. That's right.

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Speaker 1: We we we disagree, of course, that that you should

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Speaker 1: in the here and now spend money on things that

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Speaker 1: you care about. What's one of those things in your life? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I know you guys like to ask this question,

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Speaker 1: and so um, I feel so lame saying it, but

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Speaker 1: I do love spending money on books, primarily business finance, marketing,

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Speaker 1: personal development books. There's nothing lame about buying books, Chris,

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Speaker 1: I'm living in that game, and less you can borrow

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Speaker 1: them free. But the other thing, too, is I just

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Speaker 1: started getting more and more into like hiking and camping,

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Speaker 1: so I imagine I'm going to be splurging quite a

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Speaker 1: bit more on that kind of gear. Um new backpack,

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Speaker 1: some some better hiking shoes and the like. Nice. I

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Speaker 1: like spending money on outdoor gear. Actually, are I back country?

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Speaker 1: Those are both sites that can tend to steal, not steal.

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Speaker 1: They get a lot of my money. They give me

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Speaker 1: goods as well. But but yeah, Chris, let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and let's dig right in. Uh, you had some great internships,

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Speaker 1: you know, under your belt, you graduated, you had your degree,

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Speaker 1: but then you turned down a great job in order

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Speaker 1: to count cards. What led you to that point? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Why did you sort of take this more non conventional routes? Yeah? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you said, I had the opportunity to either make

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Speaker 1: money sitting behind the desk playing with spreadsheets all day

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Speaker 1: more or less, or travel around the country playing blackjack,

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Speaker 1: betting thousands of dollars and trying not to get caught

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Speaker 1: counting cards. Because it's it's not illegal, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: one way to take it out of there if they

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Speaker 1: catch you. So I mean, just looking at it in

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Speaker 1: that way, it's a pretty easy decision for a twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old right out of college. But also leading

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Speaker 1: up to it, I had it was sort of a

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Speaker 1: progression to where I slowly but surely was seeing like

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Speaker 1: how I could have more and more freedom. So early

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Speaker 1: on in my college career, I thought that I would

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Speaker 1: love to work at an investment bank somewhere on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: And then um, once I turned out a hedge fund,

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Speaker 1: which for listeners who don't know, hedge funds are quite

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Speaker 1: different than investment banks, and in the type of work

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Speaker 1: and the workload that you have and the amount of

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Speaker 1: hours that you're working in all of that. So I saw,

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Speaker 1: I saw this what I called this light of of

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Speaker 1: hedge funds, and I thought, wow, I'm never going to

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Speaker 1: an investment bank. And then as I turned twenty one,

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Speaker 1: I had years ago seeing the movie twenty one, and

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Speaker 1: just that was my introduction to this idea that you

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Speaker 1: can actually make money counting cards. I was a numbers

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Speaker 1: guy and a sort of statistics guy, so that made

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Speaker 1: sense to me. And so as I was bloring what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do after school, um, well before I

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Speaker 1: mean this is so I was probably a junior at

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Speaker 1: this point. I just started practicing and counting and I

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Speaker 1: got pretty decent at it, you know, a year before

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Speaker 1: I needed to even take a job. So by the

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Speaker 1: time I was I was about to graduate, I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, real good. I'm trying to be humble here,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, people, I practiced a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: every single day we were practicing, my roommate and I

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Speaker 1: and so at that point I saw this light of

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Speaker 1: you know what, I could probably make money playing blackjack.

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Speaker 1: I am never gonna go work at a hedge fund.

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Speaker 1: So it was just slowly this progression of of more

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Speaker 1: and more freedom, of an ability to make money on

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Speaker 1: my own. And that's ultimately why I chose that path.

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Speaker 1: So is it as easy as it looks in the movies?

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Speaker 1: Like learning that skill and harnessing it and getting good

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Speaker 1: at it, it's funny. So counting itself is actually not

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Speaker 1: very difficult. I think when I saw that movie, I

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Speaker 1: was in high school, and even then, well before I

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Speaker 1: was twenty one, I got pretty decent just counting through

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Speaker 1: a deck of cards. Uh. In order to play blackjack professionally,

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Speaker 1: you've got to combine several skills, so counting cards is

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Speaker 1: one of them. Um. You also have to memorize roughly

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Speaker 1: seventy five plays that cover every single possible hand that

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Speaker 1: you could get with every single virtually every single variation

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Speaker 1: of the count. So um, once you memorize all those

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Speaker 1: plays and you memorize and you know how to count,

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Speaker 1: then you also have to be able to estimate how

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Speaker 1: many cars have been played from the deck so that

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Speaker 1: you can see how many cars are remaining and calculate

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Speaker 1: something called the true count um. And you also have

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Speaker 1: to be able to kind of do all this together,

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Speaker 1: bet the right amount as well that changes with the count,

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Speaker 1: and then do kind of do all of these mental

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Speaker 1: gymnastics while you're pretending to be a regular gambler, because

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Speaker 1: you cannot be sort of hawkeyed looking at every single

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Speaker 1: card coming out. That would be me. Well, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's something that you get better at. But there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of different skills that kind of go into it.

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Speaker 1: So the counting itself is easy, but all in all,

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Speaker 1: it it took a lot of work. I think my

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Speaker 1: pumps would be sweaty, like the entire Oh my gosh, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I feel like my pumps are sweaty right now just

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Speaker 1: hearing you talk through this being I'm in imagining myself

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Speaker 1: in this situation, and I would totally be the guy

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Speaker 1: Like I think I could do the counting. I think

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Speaker 1: I could do the just everything that's required to actually

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Speaker 1: know what cards are you know might be coming up, memorization,

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Speaker 1: but the ability to multitask. I am terrible at multitasking.

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Speaker 1: I'm a like a laser focus kind of guy. I

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Speaker 1: can sometimes have a difficult time even enjoying a beer

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Speaker 1: while we record the podcast. Did anyone ever come to

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Speaker 1: you at the table like another gambler and they just

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Speaker 1: completely throw you off your game because they start chit chatting.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, But I the reverse was true, because when

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Speaker 1: you count you there's there's like the book, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: which is just basic strategy. It's a list of like

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Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty plays essentially, and people generally expect you

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Speaker 1: to play by the book, even though I can say

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Speaker 1: with pretty good certainty that virtue almost no one actually

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Speaker 1: plays by the book. Which is the best way to

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Speaker 1: actually gamble and play blackjack is is by playing by

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Speaker 1: the book. But when you count cards, now you've introduced

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Speaker 1: over fifty variations of that basic strategy, so fifty different plays,

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Speaker 1: and so really can get on people's nerves when you

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Speaker 1: start doing things that look ridiculous and I've cleared tables

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Speaker 1: before I'll make a play and people just get up

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Speaker 1: on leave. So the reverse is probably true more than

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Speaker 1: is on the other side. Well, so I mean, is

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Speaker 1: that because they knew that you were counting or that

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Speaker 1: they just knew that you were that good. I guess

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Speaker 1: they think I'm an idiot and just making terrible plays.

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Speaker 1: And people are so superstitious that they say, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're not playing by the book, you're gonna screw

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Speaker 1: up my next hand that and you're like, I'm playing yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And actually it's funny because when the count starts getting

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Speaker 1: better and better and these variations come into play, it's

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Speaker 1: actually better for us to have a table cleared. So

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Speaker 1: I'm the worst thing that can you can you know

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Speaker 1: that can happen is you're sitting at a really you know,

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Speaker 1: heavy high count, and you've got five other people at

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Speaker 1: a table. You load up your bet, and then everyone

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Speaker 1: else gets a black jack except for you, So it's

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Speaker 1: it's actually in my best interest if everyone else leaves. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: so why black jack specifically? I mean I assume that

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Speaker 1: there are I mean, do you have better odds playing

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Speaker 1: black jack and winning money, you know, compared to poke?

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Speaker 1: Why Why is it that you chose black jack specifically? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I was introduced to blackjack, so it made sense to me,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think I really explored other things after that.

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Speaker 1: It just sounded fun. Um, I was doing magic tricks

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Speaker 1: card tricks at a young age, so I was already

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Speaker 1: sort of familiar in holding a deck of cards a lot.

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Speaker 1: David Blaine was a big inspiration for me, and so

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Speaker 1: he said everywhere he went and he had a deck

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Speaker 1: of cards, and that's kind of what I did for

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Speaker 1: a while. So when I heard about blackjack and making

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Speaker 1: money that way, I didn't look too far sort of sideways. Um,

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Speaker 1: and poker is a game against other people. Blackjack is

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Speaker 1: a game, one on one game against you know, the house.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a very fine nite like you play

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Speaker 1: like a computer with With poker, I don't know the

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Speaker 1: first thing about poker, not really, um, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: just a completely different game. So you're yeah, you're more

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Speaker 1: twenty one less Rounders Okay, well it speaking of like,

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Speaker 1: uh when the movie Rounders is obviously just was an

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Speaker 1: instant classic and yeah, and so but relying on gambling

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Speaker 1: as a source of income, that's kind of what you

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Speaker 1: were doing, Like this was your this was your day job,

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Speaker 1: and that had to be kind of emotionally tough, like

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Speaker 1: can you talk to talk us through like how how

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Speaker 1: to go the highs and lows? Of winning and losing,

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Speaker 1: and did that impact how you play, because there's there's

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Speaker 1: no way to completely divorce emotion from from what you're doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at first, it was really tough to stomach those swings.

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Speaker 1: On on any given night, we could be up or

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Speaker 1: down thousands of dollars, and when we were when as

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Speaker 1: we were relying on that as a source of income,

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Speaker 1: that really hurt. If we were down several thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: and we knew that rent was coming up because we

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Speaker 1: had hit a really good streak, and it sort of

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Speaker 1: gave us the confidence to sign an apartment lease. This

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Speaker 1: is my blackjack partner and I, so we signed apart

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Speaker 1: apartment lease, just as with black jack as our only

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Speaker 1: source of income. Um. At first, it was kind of

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Speaker 1: tough to stomach. Eventually, after seeing the swings trend upwards,

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Speaker 1: that's when seeing that and understanding the math behind it,

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Speaker 1: we just sort of started to accept it as part

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Speaker 1: of the game. And so eventually we Yeah, we could

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Speaker 1: walk out of their up up or down hundreds or

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars and really not pay much mind to it.

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Speaker 1: We're just like, hey, we gotta get more hands in

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Speaker 1: order to uh cr expected value it just like another day,

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Speaker 1: another dollar, Yeah, eventually, yeah, I mean one specifically here

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Speaker 1: you are approaching black jack almost as a career, like

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Speaker 1: a job. But how do you, I mean, does that

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Speaker 1: change your recommendation or your thoughts towards gambling in general?

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Speaker 1: Like how do you think folks, like everyday folks, how

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Speaker 1: they should approach gambling a little bit? Yeah, So I'm

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Speaker 1: biased here because again, I like numbers and I like statistics.

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Speaker 1: So I hate gambling because I know that over the

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Speaker 1: long run, I'm going to lose if I'm just gambling.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it's it's like what does Matt Damon say

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Speaker 1: when he's getting out of the car. They always they

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Speaker 1: always insist on calling it luck, and so the the

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Speaker 1: whole like professional gambler. Like I understand that that's how

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Speaker 1: people understand it. But in no way, shape or form

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Speaker 1: was I gambling, nor was you know, my black jack partner.

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Speaker 1: We were investing. So um, I do not like gambling,

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Speaker 1: but for people it can be really fun. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're not betting everything, if you just want to

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Speaker 1: take a you know, a few bucks here and there

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Speaker 1: and and go gamble and have some fun, get some

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Speaker 1: good food at the casino whatever it might be, Um,

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Speaker 1: see a show, yeah, by all means gamble, but um

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Speaker 1: yeah for me though, I don't like it, Okay, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so okay, what's the difference then between what most people

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Speaker 1: do when they go to the casino and it's gambling

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Speaker 1: and what you do? So, yeah, you're right. When I'm

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Speaker 1: reconsidering rounds, I'm like, you know, Matt, Matt Damon's character

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Speaker 1: has a plan, right, uh and and and so he

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Speaker 1: views it completely differently. And yeah, when you look at

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Speaker 1: the people who are historically successful at the World Series

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Speaker 1: of Poker, it's some of the same names that pop

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Speaker 1: up year after year that make it to the final thirty,

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Speaker 1: the final table. And let's not luck. Yeah, there's obviously

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Speaker 1: skilling exactly Like I read Maria Kannakova's book about learning

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Speaker 1: to become a professional poker player and learning from the

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Speaker 1: Best from Eric Sidell. Is a great book, and it

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Speaker 1: just helps you realize like, no, there's like systems in

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Speaker 1: place in order to profit. So yeah, like, how how

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Speaker 1: are you, Yeah, what's the difference there in your mind?

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Speaker 1: And how are you not a gambler and actually investing?

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Speaker 1: How you're doing this? Yeah? So the two main things.

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Speaker 1: The two main components are the knowledge that you have

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Speaker 1: and your bankroll management. You've really got to have both

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Speaker 1: of those in order to consider what you're doing as investing.

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Speaker 1: Simply like I'll give me an example, even just knowing

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Speaker 1: what I know and having the skills that I have

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Speaker 1: to play blackjack, if I don't have a proper bankroll,

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Speaker 1: and if I'm just overbetting, I'm still gambling despite all

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Speaker 1: the knowledge that I have, so I can play, you know,

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Speaker 1: by anyone else's standards, I can look like I'm counting

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Speaker 1: and doing all this stuff. But if I'm not managing

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Speaker 1: a bank roll properly, I'm still gambling. And the reverse

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Speaker 1: is true too. You could have a regular gambler walk

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Speaker 1: in and maybe he's only betting, you know, at most

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Speaker 1: one percent of his entire bank roll on any given hand,

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Speaker 1: something like that. But if he's just you know, if

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Speaker 1: he is not counting cards, if he's not turning that

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Speaker 1: edge over to himself and away from the house, then

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Speaker 1: he's gambling as well. And the same is true with stocks.

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Speaker 1: People think that just because they're investing their buying stocks,

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Speaker 1: that they're automatically investing in stocks, and that's just not true.

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Speaker 1: You know, we can have two different people. One just

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Speaker 1: hears that it's a good stock to buy and buys it.

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Speaker 1: The other one has done their due diligence research the

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Speaker 1: heck out of that company and really understands it and

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Speaker 1: the industry, and when they buy a share of that company,

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Speaker 1: that's more than likely an investment. Where the other guy

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Speaker 1: is is just gambling, right, Yeah, So knowledge it plays

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Speaker 1: a massive role when it comes to the differences there.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk more to Chris about how just

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Speaker 1: the intersection of gambling and investing and how a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks are getting it wrong. But I mean, in

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Speaker 1: the end, like how did you do when it came

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Speaker 1: when it came to your career, So we won't call

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Speaker 1: it gambling anymore, We'll call it your profession. Uh yeah, Like,

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Speaker 1: how did you do while you were a professional blackjack player? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: We did great at the casinos. I mean, all of

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Speaker 1: our numbers looked great, but we just did not have

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Speaker 1: a big enough bankroll to support the draws that we

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Speaker 1: were taking. I mean that was a big learning moment

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Speaker 1: for us as we started to, like I said, hit

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Speaker 1: a down swing and then have to pay rent. Now

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Speaker 1: you're talking about our bankroll is down maybe in a

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Speaker 1: matter of days. And you know, in the personal finance community,

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Speaker 1: we like to talk about this four percent rule, four

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Speaker 1: percent withdrawal rule. Um, and we were withdrawing way more

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Speaker 1: than four percent, so um on on paper it looked good,

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Speaker 1: but we we probably would have needed uh, four times

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Speaker 1: as much of a bankroll as what we were playing

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Speaker 1: with in order to really support ourselves. So basically, you

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Speaker 1: need somebody with fat stacks, like how the money, Matt

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Speaker 1: to bankroll your next endeavor. That what we're saying, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. Yeah, that's that's the kind of investment I hear.

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Speaker 1: He's looking to make Chris Joel's next endeavor. You guys

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Speaker 1: to do it together, you know, well we'll work out

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Speaker 1: and we'll work blackjack together, and um, you guys can

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Speaker 1: play on your own. Like this is a part of

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Speaker 1: all we had you on the show because we just

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Speaker 1: found this topic fascinating. The ability to actually do something

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people just do for fun, but

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Speaker 1: you just tweak it ever so slightly, you tip that

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Speaker 1: balance and all of a sudden it's something that you

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Speaker 1: consistently make money on and that Yeah, that's a big

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Speaker 1: part of why we wanted to have you on the show, Chris,

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Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, we want to ask you more about

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Speaker 1: investing and just the mindset that goes into investing. How

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Speaker 1: you got into investing more of your money versus what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people call gambling. And we'll get to

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Speaker 1: all of that right after this break. All right, we're back.

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Speaker 1: We're talking with Chris, Hannah and Matt. I think in

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Speaker 1: the intro and in the title of this episode, we

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Speaker 1: we said with that we were talking with gambling pro

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Speaker 1: Chris hand, I think we'll have to change the title

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Speaker 1: of this episode. How did that last segment? That's what's

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Speaker 1: gonna pull people in because say gambling, you know they're

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Speaker 1: talking about headline is it blackjack? Well, Chris, since we're

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Speaker 1: talking about you know, making money at the you know

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Speaker 1: in the yeah, through gambling. Uh, well, it's become even

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Speaker 1: more common, right with the gambling is just I think

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Speaker 1: it's more accessible than ever before in the form of

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Speaker 1: like sports gambling and how you know, easy apps are

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Speaker 1: making it to place a bet on different things. Matt

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Speaker 1: and I talked about, you know, penny bid sites recently

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Speaker 1: on the show, and those, in my mind are another

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Speaker 1: form of gambling, and you know there's just the the

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Speaker 1: investing apps, the proliferation of apps like robin Hood and

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Speaker 1: so that, like you said, it's it kind of seems

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Speaker 1: like it's not gambling. What's your take on those apps because, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or those a good thing, creating an army of investors,

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Speaker 1: democratizing the system, or they leading people down like a

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Speaker 1: flawed path. Yeah, that's an excellent question. It I love

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Speaker 1: the fact that more people have access to it. People

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Speaker 1: love to hit on robin Hood for what happened during

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Speaker 1: the sort of game stop debaccle and maybe even rightfully so,

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Speaker 1: but what they've done for the sort of investment community

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Speaker 1: has been huge. And if you're sort of just getting

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Speaker 1: into the game, and you might feel, um, you probably

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Speaker 1: are just kind of taking for granted the fact that

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Speaker 1: you can buy and sell these securities, these whatever it

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Speaker 1: might be, for no commission costs. Because um, I mean

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Speaker 1: when I started investing over ten years ago, I was

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Speaker 1: paying ten dollars every time I wanted to buy something

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Speaker 1: and ten dollars every time I wanted to sell. And

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Speaker 1: before that trade exactly that's exactly right. Each I love

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Speaker 1: those Super Bowl commercials, um, but before that it was

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Speaker 1: even more expensive, and so robin Hood came in and

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Speaker 1: they created this business model where they could offer commission

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Speaker 1: free trading and it caused all the other brokers to

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Speaker 1: want to be you know, still competitive and uh and

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Speaker 1: cut their commission costs to some in many cases zero

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Speaker 1: as well. So I love that aspect of it. But

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Speaker 1: where people are getting into trouble is they're thinking that

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Speaker 1: because they are buying something that other people invest in,

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Speaker 1: that they are now automatically also investing A's just not

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Speaker 1: the case, that's right, Well, I mean, not to mention

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Speaker 1: as well, just the fact that with robin Hood specifically,

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Speaker 1: you're getting pushed into brokerage accounts. Like that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we hate about robin Hood is that

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Speaker 1: you don't have access to attacks advantaged retirement account. When

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Speaker 1: they start offering the access to those roth iras, will

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Speaker 1: will probably like it a little more. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean seriously, we will. But Chris, you know, like, how

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Speaker 1: have you seen some of like these apps adopting these

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Speaker 1: gamification techniques. There are these little tricks that they're employing

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Speaker 1: in a similar way like the Tino does with the

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Speaker 1: oxygen and the lights, or like the free drinks. Like

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Speaker 1: there's just these little small things that are done to

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Speaker 1: get you to stick around. Uh yeah, what are your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on that? That I don't agree with? So it's funny.

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Speaker 1: There's a a sort of a special on Netflix. I

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Speaker 1: think it's called Money or something with Money or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and and they have a I think there's several episodes

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Speaker 1: within that series, and one of the guys that it

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Speaker 1: sort of leads with is this guy named Semi and

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Speaker 1: Ducoc and he was actually a card counter on the

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Speaker 1: original M I T. Blackjack Team, So it's it's interesting

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Speaker 1: to see him talk about, you know, the things that

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Speaker 1: he talks about, but um and he mentions and they

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Speaker 1: go over this this sort of gamification and the question

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Speaker 1: marks that come up that you actually have to scratch off,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are I don't agree with it because

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Speaker 1: it is the line between investing and gambling is already

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Speaker 1: blurred there. I don't like that they're also blurring it

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Speaker 1: even more um of their own accord. So I don't

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Speaker 1: agree with that. Yeah, So it's that's that. I love

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Speaker 1: the how great the user interface is on an act

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Speaker 1: like Robin Hood, but sadly, like we push people towards

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Speaker 1: the crappier user interfaces, because I think sometimes that's a

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Speaker 1: better behavioral technique for people to consider. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: I think that for people who are just getting into it,

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Speaker 1: robin Hood is fine just to sort of like even

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Speaker 1: if you buy one share of anything, even if you

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Speaker 1: sign up with someone else's um like code and you

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Speaker 1: get your free stock. The thing that I love about

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Speaker 1: robin Hood in their commission free trades and all that

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Speaker 1: is that um it just gets you involved, and it

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Speaker 1: gets you it starts sparking your interest in the stock market,

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Speaker 1: because if you own any stock, you're gonna pay more

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Speaker 1: attention to the stock market. You're checking that thing all

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Speaker 1: the time. It doesn't matter if it's five dollars or

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars. But I agree the fact that they

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Speaker 1: don't offer I don't even not that people should be

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Speaker 1: shorting stocks, but there's just a lot of stuff that

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Speaker 1: robin hood doesn't offer that your your tax advantaged accounts.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that robin Hood has its place.

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Speaker 1: But for anyone who is really looking to make longer

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Speaker 1: term and vestments, particularly those that are tax advantage like

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Speaker 1: in a Rathai array or yeah, Vanguard Fidelity, those are

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Speaker 1: those are going to be better? Yeah, well, unlike investing

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Speaker 1: in the market. It you found out right that counting

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Speaker 1: cards it did, at least with the current bankroll wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to be sustainable for you. That lifestyle just wasn't

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Speaker 1: working out, at least at the time. So can you

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Speaker 1: share what life was like for you as you were

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Did you continue to try to avoid

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Speaker 1: a regular job at all costs. It seems like you

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Speaker 1: were intent on not going back into that hedgephone Wall

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Speaker 1: Street world. Yeah. So I had seen this light, this

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00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: this world where you didn't have to work a regular job.

429
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: And so after Blackjack sort of ran its course, I

430
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: started looking for these other ways to make money, and

431
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: I started driving for Uber and Lift. I found a

432
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: role as a financial literacy instructor. So I was teaching

433
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: these after school UM classes to stock market clubs and

434
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: the like. Two kids UM grades K through twelve. I

435
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: was tutoring a high school student Monday through Thursday. I

436
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: was babysitting a couple of young boys Monday through Thursday.

437
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 1: And then I also UM signed up for an app

438
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: called task Rabbit. I'm not sure if you guys have

439
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: heard of it. Uh, in Atlanta. Yeah, so they're all

440
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: over the place now. And this was any five or

441
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: six years ago that I signed up with them, and

442
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: they had just made their way to the to the

443
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: d C area. But I picked up every single task

444
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: that I could, the craziest tasks, from the most mundane

445
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: to the craziest. So mundane, I drop off some groceries, craziest,

446
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's I stood in line to get

447
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: reservation dinner reservations for people. I deep cleaned apartments, um,

448
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 1: whatever you could possibly imagine. I you know, I did

449
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: that easily. The craziest one is there's there's this guy

450
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: who he had an apartment nearby, but he was on

451
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: the West Coast and had been on the West coast

452
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: for about three or four weeks because he had a

453
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 1: family emergency and he just could not make it back

454
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: to his apartment. Before he left, he had thrown this

455
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: massive party and did not clean up, so they were

456
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: tons of trash bags, there was open cups, beer, everything

457
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: all over this place, to the point where his apartment

458
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: uh called him and said, there are fruit flies flying

459
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: around the outside of your apartment and if you don't

460
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 1: get this clean up. In twenty four hours, we're going

461
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: to evict you. And so he's frantically looking on task

462
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: Rabbit for someone to come clean up his apartment. Two

463
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: other people had had already. Um accepted the job, gone

464
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: there and then walked in and turned it down. But

465
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: for me, I was I'm like, head, I just I'll

466
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes. I really just UM, for better

467
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: or for worse, accepted that hustle culture kind of thing,

468
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: and so I went over there. I'm like, well, we'll

469
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: screw it. I'll tie a shirt around my face and

470
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna deep clean this apartment. That's masking before

471
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: it was necessary. You know, It's so funny because I

472
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: didn't I think about that. Now I now you've gotten

473
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: masks everywhere. I did not have a mask. I had

474
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: like a spare jiu jitsu sort of shirt in my

475
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: trunk and that's what I tied around my face. But yeah,

476
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: that was the craziest one easily. Well yeah, I mean,

477
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: so you just mentioned jiu jitsu. When did you get

478
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 1: into that, because you know, I know that's a part

479
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: of your story. Eventually that led to you. You know,

480
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: you enjoyed it. But yeah, Philip Phillis in on that

481
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: because it sounded like that wasn't something that you were

482
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: able to pursue, maybe because of the like the physical pain. Yeah,

483
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 1: there were a couple of things. I fell in love

484
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: with jiu jitsu the summer before I went off to college.

485
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: That was back in two thousand eleven, and I trained

486
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: all summer, and then when I went off to college,

487
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: I tried to find a local sort of gym, and

488
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: between classes and sort of what I would have to

489
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 1: do to actually get to the gym on any sort

490
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: of consistent basis, it just wasn't gonna work out. So

491
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: I had had this longing to train like hard. I

492
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: loved it. I was I've always been an athlete, and

493
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: so I really just wanted to to dive into it,

494
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: and um, I wasn't able to for four years right

495
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: after I had fallen in love with it, so I

496
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: kind of had to push it aside. Once I graduated,

497
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: I was doing whatever I could to to train, So

498
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: blackjack for sure. Um, you know, I pursued because it

499
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: was this way that I could make money that didn't

500
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: require me to sit a regular office job, but it

501
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: also allowed me to train jiu jitsu sometimes five times

502
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: a week. Twice a day, sometimes even more like on

503
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: the weekends too. And um, eventually Blackjack didn't work out

504
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: after a certain amount of time, and I was sleeping

505
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: on a friend's couch so I didn't have to pay

506
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: rent at a normal spot. Um, I was sleeping in

507
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: my car for a period of time, and I believe

508
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: it or not, I was looking up just the craziest

509
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: sort of accommodations that I could find in order to

510
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: continue supporting myself in that way. So UM, I was

511
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: looking at these YouTubers who were living in um storage facilities.

512
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: I was like, if I can sleep for a few

513
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: hours in that storage facility or or campgrounds, I'm like,

514
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: if I can put up a tent and that's cheaper. So,

515
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: like I said, for better or for worse, are really

516
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: more for worse I think. But really embraced that sort

517
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: of hustle culture, do whatever it takes. And UM, between

518
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: that just not being sustainable for for a long period

519
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: of time. And yeah, and I just had this neck pain.

520
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: I had a minor injury, but it was like it

521
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: affected me every single day for months, even for a

522
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: couple of months after I stopped training. Now it's good,

523
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: but UM, there are a lot of reasons why I

524
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: ended up stopping. Yeah, all right. I want to know,

525
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: at any point during this when you're thinking about sleeping

526
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: in storage units, are you ever reflecting on the fact

527
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: that you're well educated and could go get paid pretty well,

528
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: pretty easily if you just kind of crawl back to

529
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: the job that you're avoiding. Also, how did your parents

530
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: feel about you during the stage? So it's funny because

531
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: that was always in the back of my mind. I

532
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: knew I had that safety net, and it actually enabled

533
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: me to take those sort of dumb ish risks. I

534
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: knew that if this did not work out, I could

535
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: always fall back on a degree, on a good internship

536
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: that I had, I all of those things. I grew

537
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: up middle class, Like, if I had to have to

538
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: go back home, I could you know that my parents

539
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: did kicked me out. I just my roommate and I

540
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: we just said to ourselves, we're going to find a

541
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: way to kind of start, you know, life on our own,

542
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: and we are not going to go back home. We'll

543
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to not so oh um, And

544
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: what do they what of my parents think about it? Uh?

545
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: They they had an idea of kind of what was

546
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: going on. They knew I was working hard, but they

547
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: I only just recently told my mom about sleeping in

548
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: my car. I don't think I've ever said that I

549
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: and I um contemplated sleeping in a storage unit or

550
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: a campground or anything like that. But they they supported

551
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: me the best that they could and let me know

552
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: how they felt the most respectful way that they could. Well,

553
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Chris, like, I'm with you because essentially you

554
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: are resisting the urge to go back to the corporate world,

555
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: you know, the nine to five, and once you have

556
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: a taste of that freedom, like you mentioned earlier on,

557
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: it is tough to say, Okay, I'm gonna go back

558
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: to having to commute or go into work, you know,

559
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: by a certain time every single day, if you're not

560
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: doing it for yourself. All that I will say, cleaning,

561
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: that doing that task grab cleaning does not sound like

562
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: pretty man. But at least he could have done it.

563
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 1: He had the choice to do it or do not

564
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: do it. But but Chris, so like you're talking about

565
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: ju jitsu, and you even now you currently do a

566
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: good amount of work uh with different jiu jitsu athletes.

567
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: But I've got to think that being really good at

568
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: that requires like a unique set of skills, right, like

569
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: just all that I don't know, a lot of physical demands.

570
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: There's a different discipline that goes into training. It's like strategy,

571
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: just like count cards. Yeah, and so like, I guess

572
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: my question for you here is like, like do you

573
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: think any of those skills also translate, like particularly well

574
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: to personal finance. Are there certain things that you see

575
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: folks who are really into jiu jitsu, do they do

576
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: something really well when it comes to their money. So

577
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: the clients that I work with are started working with

578
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: our were UFC fighters. I still work with some now

579
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: and they're at the highest level. So it's in the UFC.

580
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: They train mixed martial arts, so that's jiu jitsu is

581
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: the ground game. They might also train muy tie for

582
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: their striking or taekwondo or something, but I mean they're

583
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: at the highest level of fighting, and yeah, I mean

584
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: they are disciplined. Like there. That's one of the things

585
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: that I love. They're disciplined and they enjoy being coached.

586
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: I really um resonate with that because I I to

587
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: think of myself as discipline and I love being coached.

588
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean just take someone that knows is where I

589
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: want to be, tell me exactly what to do, and

590
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: I'll do it. And so for them, they follow a

591
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: very similar path. When they're training. They've got their striking coach,

592
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: the jiu jitsu coach, they're they're um, their nutritionists, and

593
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: there they see them as experts and just listen to them.

594
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: And so for me, they see me as an expert

595
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: in managing money. And when I tell them you should

596
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: be doing this or shouldn't be, they listen. And so

597
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: for sure there are elements that crossover. Yeah, hey, Chris,

598
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: we've got a few more questions to get to, including

599
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: your dislike for budgeting. We'll talk about that and more

600
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: right after this break. All right, we're back from the

601
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: break and we're talking with Chris Hannah, a former professional

602
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 1: blackjack player. And Chris, you know, we were working our

603
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: way through your story and uh, we're kind of touching

604
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: on the part in your life now where you are

605
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: now coaching in the Many Fighters Ultimate Fighter is that

606
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: kind of thing. As we've read about you some like,

607
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: we found that you have some unconventional thoughts on budgeting, specifically,

608
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: you're not a big fan. Can you share why that is. Yeah.

609
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: So I once I sort of uh decided that I

610
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: wanted to take a more active role in my personal finances.

611
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: I started trying all the traditional um we'll call them

612
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: money management methods that almost everyone tries when they first start.

613
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: So a budget, uh, the tracking your expenses using the

614
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: cash envelopes. I tried all these different things, and really

615
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: what I it took me a while to sort of

616
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: recognize what was what I really wanted out of it.

617
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: So what I wanted was to decide clearly what to

618
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: do with my money, ensure that I stuck to those decisions,

619
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: and then track and organize the decisions and my money

620
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: in an efficient way. And so the reason I don't

621
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: like budgeting is because it's just way too complicated. And

622
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: budgeting almost necessarily requires that you track or expenses. And

623
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: actually that is a thing that I just like most.

624
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: That to me is an unsustainable UM practice. Like if

625
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: you're trying to make a long term habit change, it's

626
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: got to be James Clear talks about an atomic habits.

627
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: He talks about it being um easy, obvious, you know, rewarding.

628
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: I forget what the other one is. But like when

629
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: when it's too difficult to maintain. You're not gonna stick

630
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: to it. And that's why I really don't like tracking expenses, um,

631
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: which classic budgeting requires. Do you do you think that

632
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: comes down to a personality type because Matt and I

633
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: debate this here in the studio from time to time

634
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: in our basement apartment studio. Uh uh. He is certainly

635
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: much more of a budget He has like detailed budgets

636
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: back to two thousand six, what two thousand and seven,

637
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: literally every penny I spent. So yeah, Chris, I'm gonna

638
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: follow the other side of the fence. So people crawl

639
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: through the computer and beat you up just for saying that.

640
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: You said, Chris, I'll tell you that. Uh. Me. On

641
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: the other hand, I side more with you, And yeah,

642
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's just are you a more unconventional thinker?

643
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: Is is your approach just different? Because uh, I'm you know,

644
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: we talked about budgeting a lot here on the show,

645
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: and I think that different styles, different methods, fit different people.

646
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: Uh and so too. I would never want to tell

647
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: anybody that like budgeting is a waste of time. But

648
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: for some people, especially people who are have the knowledge,

649
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: uh and and have the dedication to uh to certain

650
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: goals in their lives, like budgeting can be I don't

651
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: want to say a waste of time, but it can

652
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: take up a whole lot of time and it might

653
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: not be necessary in some folks cases. Yes, so I'll

654
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: say this right, it does work obviously because people are

655
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: doing it, and um, it's just it's just really inefficient

656
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: when you compare it to using something that I call

657
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: a cash flow tracker. And so I've come now to

658
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: understand these three principles of managing money. And if budgeting

659
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: and expense tracking was the only way to successfully manage

660
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: your money, that I'd say, by all means, do it.

661
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: But now that I have an understanding of a more

662
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: efficient way, like, it's just I will die on this

663
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: hill like that is just not nearly as efficient, um

664
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: to budget and track your expenses. So managing money right

665
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: has three essential elements, and the goal is to use

666
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: your money and the most effective way possible to live

667
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: the life of your dreams in whichever way that impacts you,

668
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: your family, your friends, even strangers around the world. So

669
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: principle number one is to decide what to do with

670
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: your money. So every time that you earn money and

671
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: before you spend a dime, you have the opportunity to

672
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: decide exactly what to do with that money. And then

673
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: the second principle is to ensure that you stick to

674
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: those decisions, because a plan is only as good as

675
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: your ability to execute it. And that's why people love

676
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: the cash envelope system, because they divvy up their money,

677
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: it goes in separate envelopes, and then they as long

678
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 1: as they only use each envelope for its intended purpose,

679
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: they're now sticking to those decisions. They've made a plan

680
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: and they're sticking to it. But cash envelopes are outdated

681
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: nowadays because you've got banks online, banks like Ally which

682
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: has you can open up as many checking and savings

683
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: accounts as you want with no minimum balances, none of

684
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: those you know, hidden fees, and so you can just

685
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: replace cash envelopes with bank accounts. And if you're really

686
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: smart about it, you can reduce your budget categories down

687
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: to like two or three spending categories. You don't need

688
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of like the budget that you're making, Joel,

689
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could filter down a lot of that

690
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: stuff into just two or three spending categories. Yeah, I

691
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: think you're right. I mean I could get super granular

692
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: and talk about how much I'm spending on my toothbrushes

693
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: every year exactly. That's just overkill. And the broader I

694
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: keep it, the less it affects my sanity. And and so, Yeah,

695
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: I want to have those broad based goals and broad

696
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: based numbers so that I kind of know where things

697
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: are generally going. But the more specific I get, the

698
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: more I feel like it detracts from what I'm trying

699
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and and so then principle number three

700
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: in terms of the tracking, um you want to track

701
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: it in an efficient and organized way, in a way

702
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: that makes sense to you because you don't actually care

703
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: about every single expense, you care about the category as

704
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: a whole. So, for example, you don't need to know

705
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: that you spent your money twenty different times on food

706
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: during the month. You just need to know the total

707
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: amount that you spend on food for the month, and

708
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: that way you can make changes the following month if

709
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: you'd like to. So what I do now is I

710
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: just use a cash flow tracker. I've been meaning to

711
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: get one up on my website as like a freebee.

712
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: I haven't done it yet, so if if you guys

713
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: were listeners, if you'd like one, just shoot me a message.

714
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: I'm happy to send it to you, and you can

715
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: even just create your own. It's just Um, you have

716
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: your income at the top. Let's say that you receive

717
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: some amount of money, and along the side, along the

718
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: left hand side, you've got your list of budget categories

719
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: and you just divvy up. You just go down that

720
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: list and you divvy up the money from your income

721
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: into each of those categories. And as long as you

722
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: transfer the money into those accounts or put the cash

723
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: into the envelopes, Um, you've now decided what to do

724
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: with your money. If you've transferred the money, you're ensuring

725
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: that you stick to those decisions. And now you've tracked

726
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: it because now you don't need anything further. You you

727
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: know what you've done with your money. So do you

728
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: spend out of those individual accounts? Then? Like I guess, like,

729
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: how how do you actually perform those transactions? Then? Because

730
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, like, as you're describing this, this sounds

731
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: to me like a lot like a budget because I'm like, well,

732
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: I've got my different categories and then I tracked those

733
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: expenses and copy and paste them over, Like, what, what

734
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: do the actual mechanics of you keeping up with those

735
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: expenses look like, so that you are sticking to what

736
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: you've decided to actually do. Yeah, so in the classic

737
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: sense of a budget, it sort of requires expense tracking.

738
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: So I do. I do have an original budget. I'm

739
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: just not sort of you know, going through that and

740
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: sort of resetting it every month. Like I know, I've

741
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: just really I've gone through all the things, like all

742
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: my fixed and recurring expenses. You know, how much I

743
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: generally need for gas and you know, whatever it might be,

744
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: how much I want to set aside in different accounts.

745
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: But I filter that all into a few different categories.

746
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: And so from there, because I only have a few now,

747
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: I can just you know, on a piece of paper

748
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: or on it's on a spreadsheet, I just go down

749
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: the list, um put money into each account. I have

750
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: three primary checking accounts and a handful of different savings accounts.

751
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: And then when I'm out at the store and I

752
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: want to buy groceries, well, I have a card for

753
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: needs just general. I call my cushion account because it's

754
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: what sort of holds everything together. It's for all the

755
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: miscellaneous type needs. Again, I don't need to know the

756
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: granularities of every line item, I just need it in total.

757
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: And so because you are as if you fill out

758
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: this cash flow tracker again, you've decided what to do

759
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: with your money. If you've transferred money into an account

760
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 1: and are only using that account for its intended purpose,

761
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: you're ensuring that you stick to that plan. And then

762
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: if again, if you fill out that piece of paper,

763
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: you now have a record of what you've done with

764
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: your money, and then there's no need to track your expenses.

765
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: I feel like you guys can get along on this. Yeah. Yeah,

766
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: so it sounds like I mean you're actually spending out

767
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: of that specific account. Is that that you're exactly? Yeah,

768
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: I guess with a debit or check card? Exactly? Got you?

769
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: Got you? Okay? Well, you know we wanted to touch

770
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: one other thing here, Chris, because you you know, you

771
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: talk about funding what you call a wealth accounts. You know, like,

772
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: as we're talking about these different accounts here, explain to

773
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: us what that's all about. Yeah, wealth accounts, you can

774
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: call it whatever you like, but it's really just an

775
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: account to invest in yourself. Um. You know, once you

776
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: really understand what you can do with money and what

777
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: money can do for you, you will never handle it

778
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: the same way again. And you can use a wealth

779
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,919
Speaker 1: account to make extraordinary changes in your life. So this

780
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: could be an account that you use to learn, you know,

781
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: to buy books, courses, invest and pay experts or coaches.

782
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: You can use this account to start a side hustle

783
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: or even a full blown business. And you you can

784
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: use this to just bring some amazing joy into your life.

785
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: If you've got a list of bucket items, um invest

786
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: that I still consider that, you know, uh, an investment

787
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: in yourself, Like this is something that you desperately, desperately

788
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: want to accomplish or want to do well, use money

789
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: as creatively as you can to accomplish that. And so

790
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: the other important thing there too is when you come

791
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: across let's say that you want to learn a new skill,

792
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: and let's say you come across a course at a

793
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: hundred fifty dollars online, It's very different to have that

794
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: money set aside to invest in yourself and come across

795
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: this one fifty dollar opportunity. Uh, it's a lot different

796
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: to do that than to say, you know, hey, I've

797
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: got all all of my money and one primary checking account.

798
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: I'm paying for rent out of there, for my utilities,

799
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: my insurance and all my needs. Do I really need

800
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: to spend a hundred fifty dollars on a course? Like?

801
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: The mentality there is completely different when you are actively

802
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: setting money asign in a separate account. I call that

803
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: my wealth account. Yeah, it's it's almost like setting it aside.

804
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: Like you sit with set aside money purposefully into your

805
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: rath era, hopefully every month, whether it's a hundred dollars

806
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: a month or whether it's five ars a month, because

807
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: you're trying to max that puppy out, earmarking that money

808
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: and then and then putting on autopilot, make sure that

809
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: you're going to use it for its intended purpose in

810
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: your right. If it's all just like sitting in one

811
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: lump sum, it's harder to pull the trigger on something

812
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: that's going to be of benefit for you. And you

813
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: know what, you might even use that wealth account to,

814
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, bank roll your card account that career.

815
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, Well, Chris, this has been a great conversation.

816
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you taking the time to join us.

817
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: Where can our listeners find out more about you and

818
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: what you're up to Sure. Yeah, texting me is the

819
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: is the best way to get a hold of me.

820
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: Uh and either I am my assistant will get back

821
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 1: to you. It's two four zero six three zero zero

822
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: five six eight. If you just want to follow me

823
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: on Instagram, you can do that at Chris Alan Hannah.

824
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: There's no h at the end of that. Hannah, please

825
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: just ignore my terribly boring earlier videos. Um. And if

826
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: you have any questions, yeah about how to manage your

827
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 1: money or anything that you've heard today, please reach out

828
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: and ask because I'd love to hear from you or

829
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: maybe even for some black chat coaching. Sure, sure, Chris,

830
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: this has been a great conversation. We really appreciate you.

831
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much. Thanks Matt and Joel. All Right, Matt,

832
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: that was a super fun conversation. Was involved something we

833
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: don't normally talk about on the show, which is gambling, well,

834
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: not gambling, the profession of black chat. It's gambling, not gambling.

835
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I don't even know what to call it

836
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: right now, but yeah, exactly, this career ession, his disappointment

837
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: to his mom career Beth. Uh. Sorry, Chris, but yeah,

838
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you joining us Chris and and and Matt,

839
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: what was your big takeaway from this episode, because I

840
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: do think that, like there were there were lot of

841
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: things despite the interesting story that we could glean from

842
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: this combo. Yeah, so, I mean, I think my biggest takeaway,

843
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: like we were talking about essentially the difference between gambling

844
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: and investing, and there I don't know, I think you

845
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: mentioned maybe a few things, but one of the ones

846
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: that stood out to me was the fact that knowledge

847
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: that is the big difference between some people who are

848
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: out there just gaming having fun versus those who are

849
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, and also gambling because there's no guarantee that

850
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: they're gonna you know, win that money back. That's the

851
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: difference between those people versus somebody who is approaching this

852
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: more as an investor, which is what Chris said. He

853
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: said that to him, Uh, you know, I don't know

854
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: if you could technically call this investing, but it was

855
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: a career. He knew that if he put in the

856
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: time that he was going to see a net positive, right,

857
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: and so in the same way that applies to how

858
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 1: we invest because yeah, you can download Robin Hood and

859
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: you get the first whatever, you know, two or three

860
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: free stocks or something like that, and you can just

861
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: keep I don't know, buying more of those stocks or

862
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: just buying this stock because you heard it in the news.

863
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between that and buying and holding local,

864
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: widely diversified index funds. Uh. And so obviously that's what

865
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: we are huge proponents of. But that is the difference

866
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: between investing and gambling when you invest in the market. Uh.

867
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: In that way, you are not gambling, you are investing.

868
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: But it was that, and then he talked about the bankroll,

869
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: how you need to make sure you have enough money

870
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 1: on hand to basically smooth out the ride whether those storms. Yeah,

871
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: and that's so important, especially if you are more entrepreneurial minded,

872
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: if you own your own business and you have a

873
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: regular income. That's incredibly necessary. Uh, so that you don't

874
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 1: all of a sudden go bankrupt because of a bad

875
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: month you can't pay the bills you want to be

876
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: able to. Like you said, whether those storms, Well, that

877
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: actually segues perfectly into my big tang away, which was

878
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: that safety nets allied to take big risks, and so

879
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: I thought that was that was crucial, right that one.

880
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: Chris was like, I didn't have a big enough bankroll,

881
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: but he had saved money and he was living cheaply,

882
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: and so he felt like he had all these safety

883
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: nests he talked about in their work, you know, and

884
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: even if if you know things things get worse, can

885
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: go back and live with my parents. That's what he

886
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: was trying to actively avoid. But knowing that you have

887
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: a backup plan can allow you to pursue your goals.

888
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's for us, like what an e

889
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 1: fund does for so many people. But beyond that, something

890
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: we've talked about before on the show is piece out

891
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: money and having savings built up that we define his

892
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: piece out money allows you to quit your job if

893
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: you if it's not working out, or if you just

894
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: want to pursue something different, or to go back to school.

895
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: Like it just gives you so much power that these options. Yeah, yeah,

896
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: that safety net is a crucial thing allowing you to

897
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: pursue some goals and makes me think back to when

898
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: I was twenty one and I quit my job and

899
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: took a road trip around the country. I didn't have

900
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: very much money, but I had enough to do that

901
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: and it was one of the best experiences of my life.

902
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: And so it's uh but it is important because, yeah,

903
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: you don't want to get stranded along the side of

904
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: the road. You gotta have the money in your bank

905
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: account to back your decision up. And and Chris did. Yeah.

906
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: Literally you could have literally been stranded on the side

907
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: of the road if you had left for that road

908
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: trip with zero dollars in the bank. Uh. And so

909
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: in the same way, just having an emergency fund will

910
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 1: allow you to not fall into debt or other tough

911
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: situations if you find yourself, you know, receiving a massive

912
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: medical bill or you know, a roof that needs to

913
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: be replaced. That's why we are huge proponents of making

914
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: sure you've got at least three to six months worth

915
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: of living expenses set aside. But j let's go ahead

916
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: and get back to the beer that you and I

917
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: enjoyed today. This was an almond brown ale by Tim

918
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: Blore Brewing. This was another one that was sent to

919
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: us by Ryan and our friends there at the brewery.

920
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: What your thoughts on this beer? Okay, so we just

921
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: had a walnut beer last week's discussion of you said, like,

922
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: I always get them confused, since they can they are

923
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: very similar, like they look the same and they don't

924
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: taste terribly dissimilar. They don't look the same in the bag,

925
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: all shelled. They do. Wait what pecans and almonds walnuts?

926
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, yah, yeah, yeah, No, walnuts and pecans

927
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: look very simil looks similar. Yeah, they kind of look

928
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: like brains. Although I think, yeah, pecans are a little

929
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: bit better, a little bit sweeter. Yeah, I think that's true.

930
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 1: Although I think walnuts are actually like better for you. Okay,

931
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: they've got more of those to mega thre you. Maybe

932
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: I'll starting today we're talking about yeah, and so yeah,

933
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: this one, this one, you know, I guess I like

934
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: nutty beers because, uh, this one definitely had that almond influence.

935
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: I eat almonds almost every day for lunch and so

936
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: that and carrots. If it was ever wondering what joelis

937
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: here in the office for his lunch, it's little baby

938
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: carrots and almonds. No, I try to avoid baby harets.

939
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: I have been lately because Costco is out of the

940
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: regular organic carrots or whatever. But usually I cut up

941
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: because baby carts are not as good. I will tell you,

942
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: but that is what I happened eating lately. If people

943
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: want to know my diet, but yes, I love almonds.

944
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: I get my almond intake regularly and almond brown ale.

945
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: It's my jam. This is up my alley. It's definitely

946
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: like lighter brown brown ail, right, It's not like thick

947
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: and with a lot of viscosity like a stout would brand.

948
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: And but yeah, it's it's very, very approachable. So I

949
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: think of a brown ale as like one of those

950
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: perfect places to start. Most people who aren't into beer,

951
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: it's either like you, either you either go with some

952
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: sort of like lagger that's super basic, or if they

953
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: kind of think they might like if they like coffee

954
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: in particular, go to like a brown ale. See you know,

955
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: see how you feel about that, And this wouldn't be

956
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: good like a good entry level beer. Yeah, and it's

957
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: not too bitter as well, So especially if you like

958
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: your coffee with a little bit of sugar, a little

959
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: bit of cream, just like that nice brown coffee. Well,

960
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: I think you would like a nice brown ale similar

961
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: to the porter that we had last week. It's lighter

962
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: and body so really easy to drink, really flavorful, and

963
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: we are incredibly thankful again for Tim Blore Brewing for

964
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: sending this one our away. Joel. That's gonna be it

965
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: for this episode. Will make sure to putting any links

966
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: that we may have mentioned during this episode up on

967
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: the website how do money dot com. We'll make sure

968
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: to put Chris's phone number up there in case you

969
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: wanted to reach out with him. Let's blow his phone

970
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: number up this week. Let's do it, but Joel, that's

971
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: gonna be it for today, Buddy. Until next time, best

972
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out.