WEBVTT - Racism & Righting Wrongs with Shelly Tygielski & Justin Michael Williams 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:02.520 Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea. 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:03.559 Where have you been this week? 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:03.880 Well? 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:07.360 I have the first week off that I've had for 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.799 Thanksgiving week. Oh that's my first week off. I'm hanging 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.920 on by an actual threat of dental floss. I am 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.320 really really. My body is shutting down. The plane rides, 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.520 the partying, the more tired I get, the more I 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.760 drink just to get it up, like I need help. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.080 So and that's backfiring. My voice is gone. I've been touring. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.120 It's my favorite tour. I mean, I say it's my 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:32.760 favorite whenever I'm doing anything, because it is. Yeah, but 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.200 it's so much fun. I don't know if I mentioned 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.200 this last week, but Eddie Vedder came to my show 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.640 in Seattle. I Goss Jill and we had the best 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:40.320 fucking time. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:41.160 That's so funny. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.360 They were awesome. I mean that My tour managers like, 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.320 Eddie Vedder's coming to the show tonight. I'm like what? 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:48.840 And then we were in Seattle. I had two shows 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.440 in Seattle, fucking epic in Seattle. Oh did I announce 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.760 my Canadian dates? Oh? You know what shows I have 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:55.920 coming up? I still have tickets for these shows. My 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.840 second show in Cincinnati it's at five o'clock. I'm trying 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.840 one of those shows in CINCINNT. I have two shows 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.400 that day, one at five pm and one at eight pm, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.080 And the one at eight pm is sold out, but 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.080 the one at five pm. I want to promote this 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.600 the Taft Theater, which is in Ohio, obviously, because we're 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.240 talking about Cincinnati. I also added a second show in Detroit. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.560 So there's a Thursday and Friday show in Detroit, and 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.479 there are still tickets for the Thursday show November thirtieth, 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:24.920 and that's coming right up. Yeah. And then I'm coming 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:28.360 to Louisville, Kentucky. There's tickets for that. That's Sunday, December third. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.320 And then I'm coming to Montreal and I have two 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:38.400 shows in Toronto. We're coming to Ottawa, We're coming to Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary, 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.480 all of my Canadian lovers. I'm coming to Victoria, Kelowna, Vancouver, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.360 and then Salt Lake City and Denver and Maricopa, Arizona 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.160 and Richmond, Virginia. It just goes on and on and on, 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.240 and that's my schedule like through May. But I didn't 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:54.720 say all of the dates. I was just telling you 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.560 the ones that have tickets. So if you want tickets, 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.840 go to Chelseahandler dot com and come to my shows 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.960 because they're so much fun and you my Yeah, we 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:06.680 had we had a little after party because some of 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.200 my friends, my sister's friends were there. My sister wasn't there, 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.120 but her friends came, and then we had I ran 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.120 into a girl that I hadn't seen since I waited 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.000 tables twenty five years ago. It was called Roasty. I 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:18.000 saw her Roberta. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:18.600 She came. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.640 Her husband's a doctor in Seattle, so my doctor in 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.600 Seattle because I had my cardio myopathy the last time 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.560 I was in Seattle. They're friends and they came together 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.640 to my show. So that's my friend from twenty five 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.880 years ago who was awesome, and I'm going to see 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.440 her again in Whistler this winter. And then I saw 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.000 some other blasts from the past and we had this 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.280 nice little after party in our green room, which was 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:41.960 so fun. And then at midnight, I was like, it 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.520 was Thursday night, our Friday night. I had a show 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:46.760 in Seattle on Friday and Saturday, and I left and 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.440 when I left at midnight, Eddie Vetter and his wife 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:50.839 were still partying in my green room. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:52.240 That's your friend. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:53.519 That's the kind of spirit I like. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.040 I like it. That sounds great. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:55.440 Yeah. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:56.960 So I mean I have a lot of rock and 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.360 roll connections this year. People rot rot my tour. Dave 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.600 Grol Yeah, well, Dave Girl, I've known for years. I 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.320 love Dave Girl. But a lot of rock stars are 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:06.880 coming to my shows and I'm fucking down with it, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.680 and now I need to start going to see their shows. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:10.639 So I think I'm going to see I think I'm 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:11.720 going to get a list, and so I'm going to 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.880 be up in Canada and Whistler for a few months 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.120 doing all my Canadian dates after I'm done with my 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.280 American dates, and then I come back for my American dates. 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.000 I think I'm going to go see who the big 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.320 guys who are coming through Vancouver and go to shows 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.880 because I love shows. Now. I used to hate concerts, really, 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.000 I don't know why, just because of the sheer, massive 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:29.760 people like I'd rather be on the stage than in 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:30.240 the crowd. 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.680 That makes sense though, does it. 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:34.560 Yeah, some people love concerts. 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:37.360 Yeah, it's different going from to like a little hole 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.040 in the wall concert versus like a big concert with 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.080 all this like spectacle and special effects and everything like 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:44.000 those are really fun. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:45.600 Yeah, I mean they're all fun. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.320 But I told Brad like mid pandemic, when things were 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.280 really bleak, I was like, it's kind of random, but like, 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:52.240 let's go. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:53.800 See Pearl Jam when this is all over. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.960 Like for some reason, that to me was like this 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.080 that will mean this is all over, so it's still 0:03:58.080 --> 0:03:58.440 on my list. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.040 Listen to how cute he was who My manager goes, hey, okay, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:02.960 you know they came early to be backstage, so they 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.440 weren't in the crowd, and they were like, he's like, 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.760 Eddie Vedder's here. I go bring him up and Jill 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.960 his wife, who's fucking awesome too, and she they came 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.160 up and he was like, oh, sorry, we didn't. We 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:13.920 didn't come in and have a drink. He goes, oh god, 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.560 we didn't want to bother you before you perform, like 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.360 we were just coming to the show. We didn't even 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.760 expect to meet you. I'm like, are already talking about better? 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:22.599 I know how it works when you go to a 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.120 show and they're your celebrity and that you get to 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.240 meet the person most most often, but it was just 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.200 so cute. He was like, so, it's so amazing when 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.840 you beat legends like that and they're so humble, so. 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:35.880 They're not He is not like a one thousand Brown 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.279 M and M's person or whatever that writer was. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.160 No, he was drinking Corona and she drinks champagne, which 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:43.120 is why I guess we had it because my tour 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.000 managers hooked to their guy. But it was just so nice. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.719 I just love when there's surprises like that in the audience, 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.280 and that keeps happening on this tour. So I love it. 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:51.680 Thank you. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.520 I love it well, Chelsea. 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.680 Next week is Thanksgiving, and I wonder you know, I 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.120 know your sister in law kind of has. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.000 She's I'm dealing with oga over Christmas. I see her 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.880 for Christmas and we are all going to We're going 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.880 skiing my whole family. And this is how nice I am. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.640 I'm moving out of my own fucking house so and 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.800 renting my place so I can go be with my 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.760 family in a nice, bigger house because they really won't 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.760 settle for anything less, and we need a nice house 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.080 because there's so many of us. So I'm moving out 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.640 of my own house to move into this rental house 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.600 with my family for a week and then no Thanksgiving, 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.680 I'm gonna spend with Connie Britain. I'm going to Connie's 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:31.880 so I'm going to be in La. I have a 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:33.160 week off, Chelsea. 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:34.719 Is there anybody in your life that you sort of 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.240 like don't align with politically and like how do you 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.280 deal with them at Thanksgiving? 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:45.440 Etc? Well? No, I mean not in my family. I 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.520 don't really have people like that where we don't align politically. 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.360 I mean, now, with this everything that's going on, that's 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.440 more of an issue, I would assume, because there's so 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.039 many people that are so upset for multiple reasons. You know, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:00.919 it's horrifying what's happening on both sides, and the anti 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.200 Muslim behavior and the anti Semitic behavior. So but and 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.120 then that becomes an argument about Palestine versus and that's 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.280 not the that's not the fucking argument. So I'm not 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.360 willing to even have that discussion any there because it's 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:16.680 an unwinnable conversation. Everyone's going around in circles. You could 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.600 go around for seventy five years, you could go around 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.719 for a thousand years, and they would still be the issue. Yeah, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.800 So no, I don't have that in my family, and if. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.840 I mean, my nephew can be a little bit conservative, 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:30.559 which is annoying, but we all really jump down his throat. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:31.000 You know what. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.479 I have a niece that's like kind of turning that 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.159 corner too, and I'm like a little concerned. I'm just 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.880 hoping that when she goes to college, like she's gonna 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.680 get some different opinions and some different you know, worldviews 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.200 and come back to like she used to be super 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.599 super liberal. And I'm like, please come back to the 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:48.560 please come back. 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.240 Yeah, you know, I know, I know. It's very hard. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.839 It's hard when you have that in your family because 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.440 you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not how we are. 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.680 You can't hate people, you just can't. Like, that's not 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.520 I don't want to live in a world where there's 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.720 so much hatred. Like I don't want anyone to die 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.400 or be killed. I don't like that. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.279 Guess what, Like the solution is not continuing to kill, 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:09.280 Like it's just not. 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.360 I know, we should just send four women in there. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.640 We should just send you know, fucking Angela Merkel, Send 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.080 Christine A. Monpour, she read very good about the Middle East. 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.360 Send Hillary Clinton, and send Michelle Obama let them go in, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.360 come up with their solution and then tell us what 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:23.920 it's going to be. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:25.760 Send In grena Tuneberry just for you know. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.840 I like Gretituneburg it is it is actually technical. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.920 For now it's Tunberry, but everyone's a sun Berg. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.320 Yeah, like, oh over there the corrected. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.960 Like how cute is that? That's very cute? Well, Chelsea, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:37.960 we have Shelley back. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:40.760 On the Showy Gilskey, my dear friend and her friend 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.640 and her friend Justin wrote a book and guess what 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.280 the title is, How We Ended Racism. You know Shelley 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.560 from this podcast because she runs Pandemic of Love and 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.720 I've talked about her organization many times. And she also 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.400 had another book come out a few years ago that 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.360 we talked about called Sit Down to Rise Up. Shelley 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.640 and just welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Shelly, Welcome back to 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.840 the podcast, Justin. It's nice to finally meet you. 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:07.440 So nice to meet you, Chelsea. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.640 I've heard a lot about you Visa VI Shelley, and 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.000 a lot about your experience writing this book together. And 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.640 the book is called How We Ended Racism, which is 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.200 in the past tense. We'll get to that and I 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.680 can't wait to dive into. First of all, the boldness 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.840 of this title, which I love, and we can talk 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.000 about how you guys came together first. Yeah, let's start there. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.600 Well, when we first first first came together was actually 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.720 in the rodeo of our first books. And so I 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.120 was going on a book tour and somebody said, Hey, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:40.840 you need to talk to this woman named Shelley because 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.839 she knows everybody in the whole world. Basically that helps 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.240 a lot of people in the world, and she'll help 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.400 you get to the right folks. And Shelley and I 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.880 ended up connecting so deeply, like on our first call, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.560 which I think happens with Shelley when you know we're 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.520 with good people. And the rest was really history in 0:08:57.600 --> 0:08:59.440 terms of how we started working together. 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:00.280 Yeah. Yeah. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.120 So I was going to teach in Southside, Chicago. I 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.240 was invited through the Obama Foundation to teach there, and 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.840 I was going to walk into a room with a 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.200 bunch of mothers who lost their children to gun violence, 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:20.960 and most of them are women of color. And what 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.880 I recognized is that it would be really great to 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.840 have a person of color in the room with me, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.240 so that it wouldn't because I only had a very 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.800 short time to be there, and I realized, usually it 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:34.280 takes me a good two to three hours to even 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.200 like get their trust, you know. And so I invited 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.040 Justin just on a whim. I said, Hey, what are 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:40.960 you doing on this date? 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:41.719 Can you can you. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.319 Come out to Chicago? And he said, let me check. Sure, 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:46.880 absolutely I'm available, and. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.079 So and we had never met, never met. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.920 In person, we'd never taught together in person, and it 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.559 was a really rich and wonderful experience. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:56.280 It was amazing. 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.920 We actually it felt like I had been teaching with 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.959 him for a really long time. And we actually created 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.320 bonds there that we still have now with that community, 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:06.239 which is incredible. 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.680 Wow wow. Because she I went to a gun violence 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.959 retreat with Shelley once too, and we made a lot 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.160 of food in the kitchen, organic food. I think we 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.960 made a beet soup, aborched. I was not what I 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:19.840 was expecting at all. I was like, oh, there's a 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.360 lot of team building here. But yes, I went to 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:24.360 and by the way, by the way, I haven't been 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.240 asked back, so Justin, I just want to let you 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.160 know you're obviously crushing it. 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.880 Oh my god, Well thank you. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.040 And Shelley's been on this podcast before. I've talked about 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.120 her foundation, which is her Mutual Aid Foundation, which I've 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.640 mentioned on the show multiple times, and she's helped out 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.960 so many of our callers. It's called Pandemic of Love. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.360 And so talk to us about justin your background, like 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.480 where are you from and where did you grow up 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:46.880 and give us all that stuff. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:47.640 Yeah, totally. 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.920 I grew up in northern California, actually in a town 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:51.520 called Pittsburgh, California. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.400 A lot of people don't know there's Pittsburgh in California. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.880 No, my god, I didn't know. We needed two of them. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:57.280 We don't. 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.720 But this one, this one is just like twenty minutes 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.079 east of Berkeley. And I grew up actually in the hood, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.280 to be honest with you, I grew up in a 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.400 home with gunshottles on the outside of my house. And 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.000 so when speaking in these kind of communities that Shelley's 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.360 talking about, it's something that I've really lived. And you know, 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:14.679 one of the things that I talk about all the time, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.679 which kind of led me into the work that I 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.920 do now, is I grew up kind of adapting to 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.000 all of my trauma, being what I call a chronic overachiever, 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.559 just feeling like if I do enough, accomplished, en I 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.840 succeed enough, if I'm always good, if I'm always perfect, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:29.760 and I'll finally be out of here, I'll finally be enough. 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.920 And I overachieved my way to getting a full ride 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.199 scholarship to go to UCLA. I moved to LA, went 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.840 to LA and it wasn't until I actually got to UCLA, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.800 came out of the closet, had extra money for the 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.480 first time, was living in a safe neighborhood, and exhaled 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:51.080 that I realized that I was absolutely depressed. And I 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.000 was asking this question of like, how is it that 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.320 I have everything that I've said I've ever wanted. I'm 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.480 and I'm depressed, and it's you know what sent me 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.880 to a therapist for the first time. I'm ever This 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.280 was almost twenty years ago now at this point, and 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.640 the therapist said to me, you should try meditation. And 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.480 I literally said to him, meta, what like this before 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:09.959 the iPhone? 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:10.120 Right? 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.000 I was like, I didn't know any black people meditating. 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:13.800 I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.520 And he said, it looks like you've been trying to 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.760 find your happiness outside of yourself, and you've missed the 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.120 only place you haven't looked within. And the thing is, Chelsea, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.200 like I had. It's commonplace to say that now, like 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.040 find your happiness within, but I had never even heard 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.640 that phrase. So I like lift up my arms and 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:32.600 I'm like within what? 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:34.640 Like where what are you talking about? 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:40.040 You're like here under here, find exactly right? 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:40.559 Exactly? 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:41.960 I mean, I definitely was trying to find it in 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.560 places with my pants down. I'll tell you about that, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:44.640 but that's another podcast. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.160 Okay, that's another podcast. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.920 But anyway, that all leads me to say that I 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:52.920 think so many of us we have this experience in 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.160 our lives where we're trying to change the outside, hoping 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.480 that it will change something within us, and we find 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.080 and learn it again and again and again that we 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.240 could change our relationships, but we're never going to be 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.280 in a good relationship if we haven't changed who we are. 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.040 We can change our job, but our job is always 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.240 going to feel like shit if we don't change who 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.280 we are inside of those jobs. And so all of 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.640 my work now that I've really dedicated my life too, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.360 is helping people not just change what's on the outside. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.640 But change what's within. So I do that in a 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.959 lot of different ways through music and writing and teaching, 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.920 meditation and books. But Shelley and I really came together 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.760 to write this book to help people understand the work 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.319 that it takes for us to actually change the world 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:35.840 in the way that we're all saying that we want 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.840 it to change, and who we have to become inside 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.000 to really be able to show. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:40.319 Up for that. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:42.960 Yeah, I like what you just said. I can relate 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.800 to that a lot, changing you know, not the outside. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.880 I also think trying to control the outside, trying to 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:54.200 control the outcome of things right, is never the way forward, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:59.480 you know, controlling something without looking within. You know, part 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.000 of looking with in is being able to understand that 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.720 the outcome and the outside are not things. You know, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.559 you have to be able to go with the flow 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.440 and move like with the you know, with some would 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.680 say with the universe. I would say that now. I 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.480 used to I used to be like you. I'd be like, 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.720 oh god, all that language is so free frou. But 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.720 once you get clicked in and you're moving and everything's 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.360 in a flow state, you understand the power of that, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.360 and then the kind of power that that attracts and 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.040 the kind of energy that that gives off and brings in. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.120 You're bringing in so many more people when you embody that. 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.440 When you do look in, you understand yourself. You realize, oh, 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.080 I want to give out high vibes. I want to 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.600 spread good vibes. I don't want to do the negative stuff, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.360 you know what I mean? My purpose here is joy's 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.720 sunshine and laughter. Whatever your purpose is. So I love 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.480 that I can relate this to that a lot. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.480 I feel like people often ask me, you know, I'm 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.080 thirty five, I'm turning thirty six, and people often ask 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.880 me like, how are you teaching this stuff and doing 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.360 this at such a young age? And I just feel like, honestly, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.480 I was just lucky enough to have hit rock bottom 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.920 at such a young age and had the resources at 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.360 UCLA to actually get help at that age that was 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.560 just younger that I just happened to be starting this 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.280 at a pathway that I think is before a lot 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.560 of people do. And so I just feel really lucky 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.840 that I get to be like a young queer black 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.560 man who has been able to teach this work in 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.440 these spaces. And that's why Shelley was talking about like 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.920 us coming together the diversity that is happening in the 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.160 world as it relates to wellness and well being. It 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.640 takes people being able to see people who look like them. 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:31.760 And it's just I feel grateful every day that I 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.880 get to be representative of a community that sometimes is 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.800 represented in this work in this world. 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:39.760 Okay, So let's talk about this book and what's inside 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.600 this book. Obviously it's a very bold title choice, and 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.280 explain to us how you got there and then what 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:47.360 people are going to be able to learn from reading this. 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:48.320 Yeah. 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:53.560 So Justin and I are both Garrison Fellows, the Garrison Institute, which. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.040 Is in I'm also a fellow, Shelley. So just back 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:05.400 to fuck up? Okay. So okay, so yeah, welcome. 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:05.800 To the podcast. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:07.720 Back up, Shelley. 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.880 Back it up? Where do you want me to back 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:11.200 it up? 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:11.960 Shelley. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.480 That's very inappropriate. That's really not the kind of book 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:15.200 we're talking about. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:15.440 Okay. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.000 I can't believe you would reduce our podcast to this. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.840 That's Justin's other book. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.120 Back it Up? Okay. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.360 So Justin and I are Garrison Institute fellows, and the 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.880 Garrison Institute Fellowship actually at the helm of the program 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.160 is doctor Dan Siegel, who you know really well and 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.560 who has been on the podcast. And the challenge that 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.480 the Garrison Institute Fellows had in this two year program 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.440 that we were in is to think about big questions, 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.720 like really big questions that almost seem like completely insurmountable 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.280 and unsolvable, et cetera. And Justin and I came together. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.280 This was around the George Floyd murders the summer of 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.640 twenty twenty. We started thinking about what needs to change 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.640 in this world for this kind of bullshit to stop happening, 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.760 you know, what actually needs to change? What can change? 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.120 Why do we feel so helpless, why do we feel 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.000 so hopeless, and why do we feel so disempowered, like 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.399 we don't feel like we can actually change anything. And 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.400 what we started to do is we started to put 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.760 together a program. First and foremost, we were like, let's 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.800 bring together people to just have a conversation to really 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.080 start exploring the answer to that question what can we do? 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.199 And then what we started to find out as we 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.399 start as we dove sort of deeper into just the 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:34.080 rhetoric right around anti racism, and we read cast and 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.720 we read all of the books, all the things that 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.760 were coming out around that time. We recognize that in 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.440 none of those books, in none of the DII programs, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.120 and none of the racial bias training programs, does anybody 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:53.720 ever say that racism can end. All we ever talk 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.159 about is that the work needs to continue. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.719 Generation after generation after generation. So and I looked at 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:01.160 each other. 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.359 We asked each other, you know, what would it look 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.640 like if racism actually could end? What would it look 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.960 like if we stood in the future and looked backwards 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.520 and thought to ourselves, what do we need to do? 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.359 Who did we need to become back then today in 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.480 the present moment for racism to actually end. 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.200 And I think one thing, Chelsea that I'll add to 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.240 this is we thought it was crazy. So remember the 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.280 Fellowship asked us to ask these big questions, And we 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:28.840 looked at each other and. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.040 Said, could racism end? 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.240 Like everything is saying this is going to be a 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.399 lifelong fight for generations and generations forever and ever and 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.520 ever and always and always and always. And we were like, 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.480 but for why we do so many things in the world, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.400 Like we accomplish so many things, And right now everyone's 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.600 talking about getting to another planet, and we're like, if 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.879 we land on Mars. Without ending racism, we are fucked, Like, 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.080 we're totally screwed, you know, if we figure that out first. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.680 And so we got what was so cool is we 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.919 were about it too. We went in with a genuine question. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.960 We pulled hundreds of people together, We got anthropologists, sociologists, 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:12.040 neuroscientists to ask the question, is it actually possible for 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.320 this to end? And what we found actually against what 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.359 we thought was going to happen. The answer was yes, 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.679 it actually can, and for the first time in history 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.000 it can because of everything that's come before us, all 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:26.760 that we know now. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:28.680 But it can't end. 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:33.159 That possibility doesn't exist without these eight specific pillars. And 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.440 so our book kind of lays out the eight pillars 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.480 that would have to exist for the idea of ending 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.919 racism to even be possible. And so it's not really 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.640 a book that like ten Steps to end racism. It's 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.720 not like that. It's like, stand in the future, racism 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.480 is over. What are the eight things that would have 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.560 had to happen now for this to actually go down? 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.600 And so that's what we write about, right. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.240 What conditions needed to arise in humanity in order for us. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.560 To get there? And can you talk about a couple 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.400 of the pillar before we go to callers. 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.240 Yeah, sure, so there's eight of them. I'll start with 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.080 the one that we normally don't start with because it's 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.119 the one that people often like to talk about, which 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:15.679 is we learn to have big conversations and how to 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:19.840 have conversations across divides, and one of the things that 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.520 we believe the world is ready to graduate from and 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.960 needs to evolve from, basically immediately, and it is time. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.080 I think we all know this is from calling people 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:35.000 out to doing what we have called and coined in 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.480 our book Calling Forward. And the reason we talk about 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.919 this is what we know from all the science is 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.760 calling out which leads to cancel culture, which is shame 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.639 and blame and guilt, and it never ever leads to 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.560 the situation that we're actually trying to stop really changing 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.440 in the big picture. It leads to canceling people instead 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:02.840 of canceling a problem, which is a situation. And so 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.840 what we know from all the research that we looked 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.040 at is if you approach a situation with Shane blaming Gil, 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.840 I don't care how bad it was, it is a 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.480 thing that somebody did. Getting them to learn or grow 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.400 is basically virtually impossible, and so we want to get 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.240 people to learn and grow. What we have to understand 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.879 is our book is based upon why I'm starting here. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:31.480 You can't be antie everything to get things to move forward. 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.840 Being anti does it tell us what we're walking towards. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.400 It just tells us what we're fighting against. And if 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.520 you're going to be fighting against something, you're ultimately saying 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.760 that thing has to always exist so that I can 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.880 keep fighting it. And so we're looking at no, not 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.280 just what are we fighting against? What are we anti? 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.840 What are we walking toward? What are we going forward too? 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.480 And that's really what we're trying to do with the 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.320 work in this book is teach people how to have 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.640 the conversations, how to move forward to what we all 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:05.960 actually want and. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:06.840 What I believe. Chelsea. 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.040 Let's say this is a black gay man who has been 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:12.120 all over this country. I'm half white. I have white 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.360 family who lives in Alabama who are Trump voters, and 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:17.800 they are the most I don't know if they'll vote 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.760 for him again, but they did, and they are the 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.600 most lovely, amazing people who I love with my whole heart. 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.920 And what I've learned all around this country, is that 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.399 what we're seeing in the news in the media is 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.399 not what I would say most the majority of people 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.520 are this extreme. I think many of us actually want 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.000 the same things. We want to walk in a similar direction. 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.119 But we're being torn apart by all this council culture 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:46.320 and this anti everything in this call out everything, and 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.080 we're trying to gather that group of people together so 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:50.320 we can walk forward together. 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.199 You know, it's so true, like the canceling and shunning people, 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.040 Like if that worked, police officers wouldn't be up to 0:22:58.040 --> 0:22:59.760 the same business that they've been up to for the 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:03.080 life last fifty years. You know, like people get arrested, 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:07.440 they lose their jobs for assaulting and murdering innocent black 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:09.680 men who are just scared to be pulled over, who 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.680 run from them out of fear. And you would think 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:15.439 with social media it's all over the place. I'm always like, 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.359 how do these men still think they're going to get 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:19.719 away with it? And it's like it clearly doesn't make 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:21.760 an impact that some of these men have lost their 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.040 jobs and some of them are spending time in jail. 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.879 It doesn't have the impact. And so the canceling of 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.360 people and the calling out you're right. Isn't a way 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:31.200 to learn, It's a way to shame someone. I mean, 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:34.439 it's a nice step, in my opinion, to as a 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:36.920 warning to people, but you know, it's not the most 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:41.200 effective way, and clearly obviously it's not. Well that's fascinating. 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:43.560 I love that, and I mean I love this book 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.480 because I like anything that talks about ending racism. Obviously, 0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:48.679 my hope for another planet is that when we do 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.200 make contact with another planet, all of those people will 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:55.520 be black. So that's my personal fantasy that we will 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.120 recontact with whomever they are living somewhere else, because there 0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:02.399 are people out there, and I yeah, and then America's 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:04.000 gonna be like whoopsie doodle. 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:05.280 Yeah right. 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.040 I doubt I'll be around for that moment. But anyway, Okay, 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.000 so are you guys ready you want to take some 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:13.159 calls about on this topic. We're gonna have people call 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:16.080 some questions and that's the name of the game on 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:18.439 this podcast. So okay, Catherine, what do we what do 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:19.399 we got going on today? 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:21.080 Well, first, I'm going to make us take a little 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:22.720 break and we will be. 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:23.880 Right back to take callers. 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:30.240 Okay, We're going to take a little break okay, and 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:31.120 we're back. 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:31.840 We're back. 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:33.800 Oh, I have a little frog in my throat. Excuse me. 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:36.480 I had a coffee this morning, and I'm fucking bouncing 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:38.400 off the walls. I don't normally drink coffee. 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:39.480 That's not your usual thing. 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:42.760 Well, we're actually going to start with a caller. Usually 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:44.679 we start with an easy one. But I know you 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:45.600 guys can handle it. 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:45.800 So. 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:48.000 Abigail is in Colorado. 0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:51.760 She is thirty five, and she says, my husband and 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.240 I have been together for six years. We have different 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:57.720 political views, and his friends share his views. My husband 0:24:57.720 --> 0:24:59.760 and I have never had any major issues about our 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:02.760 con views, other than being annoyed from time to time, 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:06.040 most of the big issues we agree on. His close 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:08.280 friend comes over a couple times a month and spends 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.880 several hours drinking. Early in our relationship, I actually enjoyed 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:14.800 it and would even suggest it. The problem is his 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.640 friend loves to bring up topics that make me uncomfortable, 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:20.560 one being politics, but there are many, and they're offensive. 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:23.399 It's only after he gets drunk, and it always feels 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:25.199 like an attack because he knows where I stand on 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:27.760 most issues. I feel like he just wants a reaction 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:30.960 if I react. Then I get very defensive and never 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.159 say what I really want to because I'm afraid of 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:36.280 being so reactive. If I say nothing, I spin out 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.440 for weeks thinking about what I should have said. It's maddening. 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.880 My husband always gets pretty quiet when this behavior happens. 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.040 He knows I don't need anyone to defend me. I'm 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.720 a big girl, but I can't take it anymore. I 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:49.879 don't want my husband to not hang out with his friends, 0:25:49.920 --> 0:25:52.480 and I appreciate that they always hang out here instead 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:56.240 of going to bars. I've been meditating, listening to podcasts, 0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:58.440 and reading lots of books like Letting Go and The 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.480 Untethered Soul, trying to let go of my negative feelings 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:02.000 towards him. 0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:03.040 What should I do? 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:09.960 Abigail Hi, Abigail Hi, Hi. This is Shelley and Justin. 0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:12.639 There are guests today. They wrote a book that relates 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.040 to what you're talking about. I don't know how people 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.040 do it. I'm like you, listen, I'm like you, But 0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.600 people like that, especially someone who's trying to get a 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:24.360 rise out of you, you better figure out the toolkit too. 0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:26.960 As my friend would say, water Ski above it all. 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:30.360 You cannot engage with somebody who's trying to wind you up. 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:33.560 I mean, if that's not the dynamic between men and women, 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.200 that also needs to end. That is the most annoying 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:38.119 thing for a man to sit there and needle you 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.439 about something he knows you're passionate about. So I would 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:45.240 just I would really try and use all of your 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:48.760 toolkit so that you can a either laugh at anything 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.760 he says and just belittle that, not in a belittling 0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.240 way of him, but just belittling his behavior, like I'm 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:57.880 not engaging with you. That's just too ridiculous. You're too ridiculous, 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.240 Like I'll talk to you about regular things, but just 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:02.040 trying to get me upset, and I'm like, it's just 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:05.240 too stupid. And also, do you need to be subjecting 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:08.040 yourself to him because what reason? Because you like your 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.320 husband to be home drinking rather than out drinking. 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:14.280 No, I mean that's nice, don't get me wrong, just 0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:16.919 to not think about like drinking and driving and stuff 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:20.120 like that. But other than that, it's just his friend 0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:22.720 that he's been best friends with for like I don't 0:27:22.720 --> 0:27:26.040 even know, like twenty years. So I definitely don't want 0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:29.160 to try to like create any sort of wedge that's 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:34.040 not it. I just wish he would stop doing this because, 0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:37.720 like I said, like he doesn't even remember the conversations, 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:39.320 which is just crazy. 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:42.080 Well, which is even more ridiculous for you to be 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:45.000 upset about, you know what I mean, He's drunk and 0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:47.520 just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You don't 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:50.840 even need to engage with that. And at a certain point, 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:54.119 when someone's that drunk, like you're totally able to have 0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:57.400 them leave or remove yourself from the situation, like there's 0:27:57.400 --> 0:27:58.840 no reason to subject yourself to that. 0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:02.080 Yeah, because I know that this is like a me problem, 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:05.680 like I need to figure out my reaction. But also 0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:08.679 down the road, my son is a toddler now, but 0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.600 when he's older, I just feel like I'm going to 0:28:11.640 --> 0:28:16.760 have this explosive reaction if he says something you know, 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:21.240 racial or homophobic or anything like that in front of 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:23.399 my son, I think I'm going to lose it, and 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:26.280 I need to, Like, I just don't want him to 0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:30.080 ever be exposed to hear someone that he's supposed to 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:33.240 love and respect say terrible things, do you know what 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:33.560 I mean? 0:28:34.240 --> 0:28:35.840 Well, that's your job as a parent to not have 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:39.200 those people around your children voluntarily A I mean hot 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:43.240 parenting tips for me be anytime you lose your shit, 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:47.280 you've lost the argument. So anytime you are up in 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:50.680 arms and screaming and yelling, it's nobody takes that seriously. 0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:54.480 So it is a practice to control yourself. I used 0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:56.400 to do that all the time. It's not effective, it 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.920 doesn't work. When you make a point quietly and directly, 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:02.120 it has much more of an impact than you jumping 0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:05.360 around screaming and yelling and being defensive. Shelley and justin 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:07.920 over to you thoughts, feelings. 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:14.480 Oh yeah, Abigail, I feel so understanding of what you're 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:17.520 dealing with. It reminds me of somebody that we wrote 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.480 about in our book named Joe, who dealt with this 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:22.920 with his coworkers. He was like going out to lunch 0:29:22.920 --> 0:29:24.800 with his coworkers again and again, and there was a 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:27.360 few coworkers who just kept saying racist jokes, who kept 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:29.480 saying all these remarks, and he didn't know what to say. 0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:33.240 And I want to just have There's a section. 0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:35.280 In our book where we walk people step by step 0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:39.440 through how to set boundaries and in a way that 0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:42.240 actually works and is meaningful. And I want to honestly, 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:43.840 I just want to promise you that we're going to 0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.200 give you a gift of our book ourselves. So we're 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:47.800 going to send it to you so that you have 0:29:47.960 --> 0:29:50.600 a copy of it to walk through this step by step. 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:52.520 But I want to give you a piece of this 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.560 here that I think is really important to know, and 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.440 then I'll pass it to Shelley. A big part of 0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:01.920 the reason why we don't set boundaries we lie to 0:30:02.000 --> 0:30:05.960 ourselves and convince ourselves that we're not setting the boundary 0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:08.920 because oh, I don't want to create a wedge between 0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:13.080 my husband and his friend, or I don't want I 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:15.200 want to make sure that I don't ruffle any feathers, 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:17.080 or I want to make sure that I'm being nice, 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:19.600 and we kind of act like the reason we're not 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:23.200 setting boundaries is because we're so nice, But what we've 0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:26.040 actually learned from all the studies around this is it's 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:32.000 actually the opposite. We're not setting boundaries because we don't 0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:37.000 want to have to sit with having caused someone else disappointment. 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.880 So we will abandon our truth to make sure that 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:45.280 we don't have to sit with someone else being disappointed 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:47.880 with us, and so we'll let ourselves, continue to get 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:51.520 run over, continue to be upset, continue to be angry, 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:54.320 continue to be in some cases this is not the 0:30:54.440 --> 0:30:58.440 situation that you're in, but like abused or bothered, also 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:00.640 that we don't have to have somebody go I'm a 0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:03.440 little disappointed in you. And so if you could just 0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.400 own that a part of the reason you're not saying 0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.520 anything is not because you don't really feel strongly about this. 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:11.800 It is not because you maybe don't have the tools 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:13.720 to speak about it when you're all sober and bring 0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.960 it up in a meaningful way. But it's because you're 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:21.200 afraid of you having to sit with the reaction of 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:23.400 if he gets upset, or if your husband gets upset 0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:26.480 about it. And so this might be a starting point 0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:30.400 for the conversation is share the dilemma instead of going 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:33.880 in with this anger and solution. Share the dilemma and 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:36.480 start with your husband and say, hey, I want to 0:31:36.520 --> 0:31:39.000 talk to you about something. Here's the dilemma. You're not 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.120 going in with this hard boundary answer. I need him 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:45.160 to stop. It's Hey, I really love your best friend 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:46.720 and I want us to all be able to stay 0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:49.480 really close, and I care about him and I love 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:53.280 when he's over. And at the same time, it's really 0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:56.680 important to me that we're creating an environment where we're 0:31:56.720 --> 0:31:58.920 not talking about these things because it really bothers me. 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:01.720 What do you think we should do? How can we 0:32:01.800 --> 0:32:05.840 handle this together? That's a whole different way of setting boundaries. 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:07.960 And now you're involving your husband and you're a team 0:32:08.720 --> 0:32:10.280 actually wondering how to do this, and you have the 0:32:10.280 --> 0:32:12.760 same conversation with him. Hey, he doesn't even realize this 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:14.880 is even happening, Shelley, I'll let you jump in. I 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:16.320 do I want to monopolize this. I know you have 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:16.880 something to say. 0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:19.480 That's very good advice, very good advice. I love it. 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:20.680 That's super helpful. 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:23.120 No, I mean, yeah, there's not a lot to add here. 0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:26.280 You know, what I will say is that I personally 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.840 had this experience with my husband, Jason's friend, best friend, 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:36.560 and he would constantly say really sexist and aggressive things. 0:32:37.080 --> 0:32:39.760 He would come over on Sundays, they would watch football games, 0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:42.080 and it would just, you know, it would be fine 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:44.600 when he got there. And my son was always at 0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:48.960 home as well and looked up to his quote unquote uncle, 0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:52.680 and it became really challenging for me to be in 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:56.360 the same room as my husband and his friend when 0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:59.280 he came over and they started drinking. So I made 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:02.600 a conscious decision definitely did what Justin said, you know, 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:03.440 raise the dilemma. 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:06.160 And then she also started drinking. That's how she happened. 0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:09.640 You know what, can't beat them, join them, but. 0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:11.120 Not with them, but not with them. 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:15.680 Yeah, basically, you know, you have the choice. I feel 0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:17.880 like you're kind of giving your power away in a sense, 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.720 and I recognize that, Like, the one thing that I 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:25.520 can control is where I am physically when this person 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.320 comes over, or whether or not, you know, if you're 0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:31.760 concerned about you know, you said, you know, I don't 0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:35.000 necessarily want them to it's nice that he's at home, 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:37.720 but I'm just thinking to myself, like, maybe it doesn't 0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:39.520 always have to be at your home. You know, we 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:42.720 live in an uber world, Like, yes, they're drinking and driving, 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:45.760 so then you drive them to the bar and yeah, 0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:48.160 you know, and you can have your husband uber back, 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:49.920 or you can send him the uber, you can go 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:52.560 pick him up, or there's so many different options as well. 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.120 But the idea is like, don't give your power away, 0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:58.000 don't put yourself in a situation I remove myself from 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:02.960 that situation, and eventually, I will tell you that became 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:05.760 a little bit wiser about it and was like, why 0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:07.880 doesn't Chillie ever want to hang out with us anymore? 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:10.239 And I finally, when he was sober and he was 0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.279 willing to come to the table and have this conversation, 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:14.960 I had this conversation with him, and I will say 0:34:14.960 --> 0:34:17.920 that he actually apologized for his behavior and was a 0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:19.239 little bit more conscious about it. 0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:22.200 At that point. I still can't stand him, but still. 0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:26.480 I mean, it's also it's just a nice test for you, 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:27.799 you know what I mean, to see how you can 0:34:27.840 --> 0:34:30.680 handle a situation that is difficult, that is causing you 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:34.200 distress and handle this in a different way, Like you know, 0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:36.799 you probably haven't had to deal with this specific, you know, 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.160 situation before, but handle it. And you're going to feel 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:42.800 so good after you do handle it. You know, obviously 0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:44.799 when when he's not drinking. You can't talk to someone 0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:46.919 when they're drunk or in a blackout for that matter. 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:50.279 But you know, there are many different avenues to like 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.759 address this at first with your husband and then you know, 0:34:52.800 --> 0:34:56.920 in a very mature and affectionate ray even exactly. 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:58.719 Yeah, And I think Also, you know, of course you 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.080 want to keep your child away from this, but whether 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:03.840 it's from this guy or in seventh grade or in college, 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:05.560 he will be exposed to these. 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:06.320 Types of opinions. 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:08.400 Now, this is something I'm dealing with, like with my 0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:11.200 nieces and nephews, and just to be there to have 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:13.840 those conversations from the other side, like well, this is 0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:16.799 what I believe and this is how I feel about it. 0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:19.319 I think is so important that they just hear that 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:20.840 other side all along. 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:24.600 Yeah, I totally agree, honestly, Abigail, That's what I was 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:26.279 going to say, is the most important thing for your son. 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:27.959 You're not going to be able to protect him from 0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:30.399 these conversations. I mean, maybe you can protect him from 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:32.520 a bit in your home. I'm not saying I'm say anything, 0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:35.319 but what you can do is model for him how 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:37.719 he can show up inside of these conversations. And that's 0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:39.360 where you get to really make a big difference. 0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:42.520 Also, you have every right to tell him. I mean, 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:44.879 that's a perfect in It's like, I don't I don't 0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:47.239 want my son hearing any of this stuff. Those are 0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:50.239 your opinions, You're entitled to have them, but not when 0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:52.200 you're at my house as my guests, Like, I don't 0:35:52.239 --> 0:35:54.680 need my child hearing that, and it's under his own roof. 0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:56.839 This is a safe place for him, and I'm his 0:35:56.920 --> 0:35:59.160 mother and I have every right to protect him from that. 0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:01.160 You know, he's going to hear that outside in the 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:03.840 outside world, but not under my house. Not in my house, Like, 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:07.040 come on, it's not your belief system. That's not part 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:08.200 of what you have to put up with. 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.200 So yeah, no, that's all super helpful. I think I 0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:15.160 just needed to hear someone tell me, like, saying nothing 0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:18.400 is so much more powerful than trying to engage, because 0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:23.160 anytime I've tried to educate or just try to listen 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:27.000 or try it just it never it always makes me 0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:29.840 spiral later, and it always makes him feel like he 0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:33.319 won or whatever, like and I just I need to 0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:34.360 not engage. 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:38.440 Right, Yeah, Well, thank you so much, Abigail, and good luck. 0:36:38.680 --> 0:36:39.760 It's a tricky situation. 0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:41.920 Take care, Abigail, Thank you so much. 0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:44.279 Thank you, care dear, thank you. 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:54.279 Our next email comes from Margo. Margo says, Dear Chelsea. 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:57.200 After I graduated college in twenty twenty one, I went 0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.759 abroad to solo travel for a while, but I ended 0:36:59.800 --> 0:37:02.800 up never coming back. I've lived in three different countries 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:06.120 since then, and have worked six different hospitality and retail jobs. 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:09.640 I'm currently living in Australia and I'm strongly considering moving 0:37:09.719 --> 0:37:12.480 to Vietnam to teach English soon, but my dad thinks 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:14.480 it's time for me to come home and start my career. 0:37:14.520 --> 0:37:18.200 Since I'm almost twenty four, I understand where he's coming from, 0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:20.040 but I'm worried that if I don't go now, I 0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:23.239 never will. I really value the sense of autonomy and 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:27.200 fierce independence I've developed from not being committed to one home, base, job, 0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:29.799 or partner. However, I do know that in the near 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:32.120 future I want to have children, a partner, and a 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:35.880 successful career. I feel at once too old to continue 0:37:35.880 --> 0:37:39.239 my current unconventional lifestyle and too young to enter a 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:43.120 life back home where I could turn complacent doing the mundane. 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.200 Do you think I should get serious or stay adventurous 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:48.120 or is there a way I can keep the sense 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:51.279 of wonder and freedom even without traveling and while I'm 0:37:51.320 --> 0:37:54.160 trying to join the corporate ladder, get married and have kids. 0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.799 I don't know, girl, Margo, she's twenty four. 0:37:57.920 --> 0:37:59.879 You say almost twenty four? 0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:02.440 Shelley would you like to begin. 0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.840 Almost twenty she is, Yeah, Wow, I'm. 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:07.520 Gonna save my feedback for the very end. 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:10.040 Okay, Wow, I'm. 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:12.360 Just like, wow, I'm floored. 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:16.719 I mean, it's interesting because I spent the first you know, 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:20.160 twenty years of my life climbing the corporate ladder, doing 0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:23.160 everything that people told me I should be doing, you know, 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:26.680 went to school, got a master's degree, did everything the 0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:29.920 right way, got the corner office, you know, made a 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:33.680 great salary, and like Jessa was saying earlier about his life, 0:38:33.719 --> 0:38:35.680 like it was the most miserable I'd ever been in 0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:36.040 my life. 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:38.479 And it finally at the age of like. 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:42.120 Forty, I was like, burn this all to the ground, 0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:44.200 you know, through the match behind me, and was like, 0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:48.239 let's go, Let's go live this wanderlust adventurous life that 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:52.080 I didn't really have an opportunity to do when I 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:56.360 was younger. And so I would say that, especially because 0:38:56.400 --> 0:39:00.120 she's only it seems like twenty four. Wow, you know, 0:39:00.000 --> 0:39:02.960 you're a quarter of a century old almost. It's hard 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:06.280 to like imagine what life will be like at age fifty. 0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:09.480 But if you know, you're thinking about what your parents 0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:12.440 or your father is telling you, you should be doing, 0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.279 and I would say don't let people should or would you? 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:21.320 I would say, absolutely continue living this adventurous life because 0:39:21.320 --> 0:39:24.120 you will not only when you travel far you find yourself, 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:26.600 that's first of all, and second of all, you will 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:29.160 find your tribe. You will find the people, and maybe 0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:32.439 even find your husband. Maybe he's not back quote unquote home, 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:35.480 maybe he's in Australia, maybe he's in Vietnam, maybe he's 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:37.520 or your partner. I should say, because I don't want 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.200 to assume what your sexuality is, but I think you 0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:45.720 should absolutely continue to live what feeds your soul, because 0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:49.480 when you come back home, you will there's a very 0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:52.279 big possibility that you will live a life filled with 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:56.720 resentment and remorse and what ifs. And it's it's worse 0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:59.840 to live a life of what ifs, a life laden 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:02.160 with regret, than it is to live a life that 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:03.919 feeds your soul every single day. 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:10.440 Yeah, I mean ditto all along that pathway. I think 0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:14.520 what I'll say is that Shelley and I you know, 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.080 have worked with hundreds of thousands of people all around 0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:18.960 the world at this point. And what I will tell you, 0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:21.680 my dear Margo, is we work with people at all 0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:26.839 ages of their life who would just die to have 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.160 the chance to travel in the way and experience what 0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:30.640 you're experiencing right now. 0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:32.960 Would just really want that. 0:40:33.680 --> 0:40:37.200 And you are on a pathway that I think your 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:40.040 family and your parents it's not that they want there's 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:42.080 something that they're trying to create, something bad for you. 0:40:42.120 --> 0:40:44.600 It's just there's a different life for them. There's something 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:47.600 different that they know and that they may have defined 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.760 as success. And what you have to do is really 0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:54.640 ask yourself, what does success look like for me? What 0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.640 does happiness look like for me? And follow that path 0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:01.160 and if the pathway that you're on is it, do it, 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:03.920 Because girl, you are twenty four. I remember when I 0:41:04.000 --> 0:41:06.399 was twenty four thinking that I was old and had 0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:09.239 to have all my shit together. Oh my god, if 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:11.200 I only knew how much life there, you know, is 0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:14.480 hopefully still left to live and so enjoy, my dear. 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:16.640 Find the pathway and you'll find home. 0:41:17.280 --> 0:41:19.759 But you know, having a house doesn't mean you have 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:23.480 a home, So don't make it like it's all about 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:25.600 moving and buying a house to you know, save your 0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:26.080 life here. 0:41:26.320 --> 0:41:30.400 Yeah, and don't listen to your father. Okay, like, don't 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.520 listen to some man tell you what is best for you, 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:36.920 even if it is your father, because your life sounds incredible. 0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:38.640 I'm like, what what I want to be? 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:38.959 You? 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:41.640 And you're twenty four years old. I didn't have a 0:41:41.640 --> 0:41:44.240 career until I was thirty two years old. I didn't 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.920 make a living until I was thirty two doing what 0:41:46.960 --> 0:41:49.520 I wanted to be doing. So I think you should 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:52.440 stay there, go to Vietnam, go then go go to Laos, 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:55.080 go wherever the fuck you feel like going. Do whatever 0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:57.800 you want, and don't put a time limit on anything. 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.960 You know, time is like, this is the most important 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:02.799 thing you could possibly be doing with your life as 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:05.640 seeing the world. And you're right. If you go home 0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:07.840 and you find some guy and you shack up and 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.640 start a family, you're never going to get these opportunities again. 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:13.239 So you know, I know your father probably wants the 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:16.440 best for what's best for you, but he's also referencing 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:19.400 this constructed society that we're told what we have to 0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.200 do and when we have to do it, And I 0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:23.120 say fuck you to all of that. You know you 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:25.000 have to follow what you want to do and be 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:28.440 passionate about who you are and not listen to anybody 0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:30.560 who's trying to explain to you what's best for you, 0:42:30.760 --> 0:42:33.040 because only you know that, and that's what I have 0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:37.400 to say about that. Hal Amen, Amen, there you go, Margo, 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:40.440 There you go, Margo. Okay, don't fuck this up. 0:42:42.560 --> 0:42:44.120 Send as a post guard from Vietnam. 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.520 Yeah, we better not be seeing you in these parts 0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:46.960 of the words. 0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:47.520 Yes. 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:52.200 Our next call is from Laura. She is in Carasau 0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:53.560 and is a nutritionist. 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:58.040 Dear Chelsea. After suffering four small strokes in a row 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:01.520 last December, my life has been really a roller coaster 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.040 ride through depression and back. Almost nine months later, I 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:07.600 can finally say I feel a bit like myself again. 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:10.799 Your special and podcast has been the first thing to 0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:13.440 get me laughing again in months, so thanks for that. 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:17.480 Now here's my question. I have severe ADHD and have 0:43:17.640 --> 0:43:21.560 tried and really want to meditate, but it's been absolute hell. 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.200 And I truly mean this with all the respect. 0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:24.480 In the world. 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:27.160 But I figured, if you can meditate and actually enjoy it, 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:30.560 isn't it possible for everyone? I've tried every app there is. 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:32.719 I tried first thing in the morning, tried at night. 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:35.120 After eight weeks of hating it and not seeing even 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:36.280 the tiniest change. 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:37.520 I gave up again. 0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:40.160 My mind doesn't want to deal with another thing to 0:43:40.239 --> 0:43:42.960 check off my already never ending to do list. Would 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:46.359 love your advice on how to make meditation enjoyable. Much 0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:48.279 love from the Caribbean, Laura. 0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:52.920 Hi Laura, Hello, Hi Laura. Our special guests today are 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:55.440 Justin and Shelley. They wrote a book called How We 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.680 Ended Racism. So Shelley has a lot of experience, well 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.439 so does Justin with meta meditation. So Shelley, why don't 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:04.799 you start first about meditation and ADHD and how you 0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:05.440 combine the two. 0:44:05.960 --> 0:44:09.000 Absolutely, So, look, can I be an ADHD er and 0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:13.360 say this is fucking awesome? Absolutely interrupt and interrupt you 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:13.879 right away. 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:16.200 Yeah, I just keep interrupting us, I mean, and then 0:44:16.239 --> 0:44:18.120 we'll get the picture, no problem. 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:21.120 Yeah, And what's fucking awesome is the sunshine and your 0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:23.760 sunglasses and you're sitting outside in a tank top somewhere 0:44:23.760 --> 0:44:27.920 in the Caribbean. Let me say that I am married 0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:33.080 to someone who also does not enjoy meditation in any way, 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:38.080 doesn't necessarily see the benefits if you will, And what 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:41.480 I will tell you is that there are many modalities 0:44:41.520 --> 0:44:45.919 to meditation. I think there's this stigma that you have 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:50.040 to you know, sit down, cross legged, do an app 0:44:50.160 --> 0:44:54.560 close your eyes, do breathing exercises. And that's actually not 0:44:54.600 --> 0:44:58.000 true at all. When my husband, for example, plays guitar, 0:44:58.800 --> 0:45:02.560 he's meditating or sure, he's lost in some other universe 0:45:02.680 --> 0:45:05.000 and that is his way, that is his meditation. 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:07.319 When I have a friend. 0:45:07.040 --> 0:45:11.000 Who's a runner, and when she runs and trains for marathons, 0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:14.400 you know she runs long distances, she's completely. 0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:16.000 I tried that now, Yeah. 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.160 Well, I mean, I think the idea is that there's 0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:21.960 something that is there, whether it's when you're walking along 0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:24.480 the beach because you're in the Caribbean, when you're swimming, 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.440 when you're paddleboarding, when you're where do you find that 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:33.160 your mind is the quietest, you know, where there's got 0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:35.239 to be something. There's got to be one thing. If 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:37.640 it's listening to music, if it's playing music, if it's 0:45:37.880 --> 0:45:41.680 but the idea is that wherever you find that bliss, 0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:45.120 wherever you find that moment, then I would say that's 0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:49.040 where you should go to meditate, right that, Because I 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:51.239 think this stigma of like I have to do it 0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:53.960 in a certain way or use a particular app or 0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:57.719 something is not correct. It's not correct at all. And 0:45:57.760 --> 0:45:59.800 the other thing I will tell you is that there's also, 0:46:00.360 --> 0:46:05.400 you know, benefits to just mini meditations or microhabits. And 0:46:05.480 --> 0:46:07.640 so what I will say to you is that even 0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:12.160 if you're just doing breathing exercises throughout the day that 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:16.320 takes sixteen seconds ten seconds, you know, Chelsea, I remember 0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:19.600 you and I were talking about the meditation exercise of 0:46:19.960 --> 0:46:22.799 six one eight or four seven eight, which is like 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:26.520 breathing in for four, holding for seven, exhaling out for eight. 0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:30.040 What that does is it recalibrates your vagus nerve so 0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:32.440 that you can calm yourself, you can center yourself. Even 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:34.560 if you just do that every time you wash your 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:37.560 hands right after you go to the bathroom or you're 0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:40.759 in the kitchen or whatever, and you start incorporating these 0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:44.359 mini habits in your life, that is meditation too. That's 0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:46.319 also a form of meditation, and you can get the 0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:49.600 benefits of it right because it recenters you. It brings 0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:52.000 you back to the present moment, and you're able to 0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:55.920 now not just necessarily react, or you're able to be 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:57.920 self aware that your mind has wandered. 0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:00.400 Oh my mind wandered. Let me bring it back. 0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:03.520 And so in long forms that may not work for you, 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:06.080 but in short forms that is maybe there's a way 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:08.600 that it will give you a sense of self awareness. 0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:11.960 Yeah, and Laura, where is that place that you find bliss? 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.040 It's difficult because I don't know, Like you always make 0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:16.600 jokes that you have ADHD, but if you. 0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:20.120 Have it, it's just it's not something that's that goes away. 0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:22.080 I have about eight hundred channels in my head that 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:26.080 are constantly giving some kind of signals. 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:29.919 And it's very rare that they're completely turned off. 0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:32.439 Some like if I'm caught in a really really really 0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:34.799 good show on Netflix, then that that sometimes you lose 0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:37.680 yourself in something like that. Mm hmm, if it's a 0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:41.040 really good book. But I'm not, Like I tried marathon running. 0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:43.840 I didn't all trust, It's just my brain doesn't fucking stop. 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:44.640 It doesn't stop. 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:47.839 It doesn't stop. But what you can, I hear you, 0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:50.000 and you're right, I don't have ADHD properly, so I 0:47:50.000 --> 0:47:51.759 don't know, you know, I'm always just joking about it. 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:53.160 I think I have more add but no. 0:47:53.239 --> 0:47:54.240 But it's fine. It's funny. 0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:57.480 I left my ass off, But I think that whatever 0:47:57.560 --> 0:48:00.760 you can do to just relinquish all of the noise, 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.120 like the added noise, since you already have so much 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.080 noise in your head. Whatever activity can allow you to 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:09.040 put your phone away for an hour, two hours, whatever 0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:11.240 the best challenge is for you. Maybe it's thirty minutes 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:13.600 to begin with, maybe it's ten minutes. But put your 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:16.640 phone away and get lost in the activity of what 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:19.280 you're doing. And reading a book is a perfect example. 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:21.439 If it's a really good book and you get lost 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:24.080 in it, doesn't that feel so good when you realize, Oh, 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:26.000 I've been reading for thirty minutes and I haven't even 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:26.840 looked at my phone. 0:48:27.360 --> 0:48:29.279 Yeah, but I was going to suggest and this is 0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:31.200 the thing. I need my phone for it, because what 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:34.520 I've noticed is that your podcast. That's how it started, 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:36.480 because I don't listen much to podcast, but I was 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:38.920 looking for something because my brain was going after I 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:39.520 had the strokes. 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:41.319 It was I had to go off all the meds 0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:42.480 and anyways. 0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:44.680 It was fucking horrible, and I was trying to find 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:45.720 some way to focus. 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:46.279 I could do my. 0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:48.800 Job because I own my own company, I cook for people, 0:48:49.680 --> 0:48:52.280 and I was just putting so much pressure on myself 0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:54.480 and then the podcast is just like you have this 0:48:54.600 --> 0:48:57.839 noise in the background that keeps you just focused enough 0:48:57.880 --> 0:48:59.960 and it quiets down all the other trap that's going on, 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:01.800 and I just keep going and going. 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:04.760 So it would involve my phone, but it is like listening, 0:49:04.880 --> 0:49:07.080 it's very soothing. You wouldn't think it, but it is. 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:09.000 That's okay that you're listening on your phone as long 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:12.080 as you're not on your phone while you're enjoying the activity, Like, 0:49:12.200 --> 0:49:16.120 don't interrupt that activity with other activities. It doesn't matter 0:49:16.120 --> 0:49:17.960 how many things are going on in your head. You 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:20.560 know what happens when you pick up your phone and 0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:23.759 interrupt something that you're doing, or you interrupt you know, 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:25.279 you're in the middle of something and then you're like, oh, 0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:26.480 I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:28.600 do that. The point is it's to be as present 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:32.239 as possible. Right, that's present minded awareness, Like that's it. 0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:35.120 You're paying attention to the activity that you're doing, and 0:49:35.160 --> 0:49:38.520 the goal is to find the activity that brings you 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:41.440 to that so that the voices are a little bit 0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:44.239 duller and all of the traction that's going on in 0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:48.960 your head becomes a little bit less chaotic. And when 0:49:48.960 --> 0:49:51.799 you notice that you're feeling that way, then that's an 0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:54.520 activity that you should do again, you know, with the 0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:57.319 intention of Okay, I'm going to put my phone away 0:49:57.320 --> 0:50:00.200 for this amount of time whatever your big distractions are, 0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:02.600 to remove them from the thing that is going to 0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:05.560 make you just really be focused and pay attention. And 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:08.680 I promise you that if you keep practicing this. 0:50:09.280 --> 0:50:10.000 I gave up. 0:50:10.040 --> 0:50:11.360 I have to be honest. I had a good, like 0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:13.600 eight week cycle going and then I gave up. 0:50:13.840 --> 0:50:15.200 I know, but you're not going to be able to 0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:18.080 meditate right now. So just what we're saying is find 0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:21.200 the show, find the book, find the podcast, whatever it is, 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:24.239 and practice doing that for a certain amount of time 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:27.960 every day, and I promise you will start to become 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:30.919 more focused. You won't, you know, you don't believe that now, 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:34.000 but it will. So that's a gift you're just going 0:50:34.080 --> 0:50:37.799 to give to yourself. All right, justin, did you want 0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:38.399 to chime in? 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:39.920 Yeah? I would love to. 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:44.560 Actually, Laura, So there's this really amazing book that I know. 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:46.680 It's one of the best books that I've ever seen 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:51.719 on meditation, and it's written specifically for meditation, like one 0:50:51.719 --> 0:50:53.840 of the titles originally was going to be Meditation for 0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:57.200 people who can who can't Stop thinking. That's not the 0:50:57.239 --> 0:51:01.439 actual title. The title is Stay Woke, A Meditation Guide 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:04.040 for the rest of us. Happened to write I happen 0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:07.359 to write this book shameless plug just. 0:51:07.400 --> 0:51:09.000 Recently learned the word plug. 0:51:09.120 --> 0:51:10.200 I recently learned what. 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:14.120 I have a different definition for plug. 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:17.320 Yeah, I do too, Actually a few a few, but no, 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:19.560 I'm actually sharing this with you because I'm one of 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:21.560 these people who I don't have ADHD, but I can't 0:51:21.600 --> 0:51:26.000 stop thinking. And one of the biggest myths about meditating, 0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:26.640 it is a myth. 0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:28.160 It is a lie. It's bullshit. 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:30.080 No one's ever done it ever in their life. And 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:32.920 if they told you they've done it, they're alive. People 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:35.680 say that they if they to meditate, I have to 0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:37.600 get my thoughts to stop or get my mind to 0:51:37.600 --> 0:51:41.640 stop thinking. That would literally be like saying, oh, I'm 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:43.360 going to meditate, I need to get my heart to 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:47.799 stop beating. If your mind stops thinking, you're dead. Like 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:51.000 the mind thinks, that's what it does. That's literally what 0:51:51.040 --> 0:51:53.120 it does. Like the heart beats, that's what it does, 0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:53.960 whether we like. 0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:54.279 It or not. 0:51:54.880 --> 0:51:57.319 And what we have to learn how to do when 0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:00.560 we're meditating or anything that bringes into this state. Is 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:02.680 what we're really hoping for is to get our thoughts 0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:05.800 to work for us instead of against us. The reason 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:08.000 why there's a struggle is not because you have too 0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.160 many thoughts. It's because you feel like your thoughts are 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:11.880 pulling you out of the moment that you want to 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:16.440 be in. And so Chelsea's invitation and Shelley's invitation are amazing, 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.200 but I really want to invite you into this nuance 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:19.719 to think. 0:52:19.800 --> 0:52:21.160 I'm hearing you talk. 0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:26.000 About your thoughts like a problem, and I want you 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:30.439 first to reorient yourself to say that you and your 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:35.200 mind is not a problem. That's actually the thing. You've 0:52:35.239 --> 0:52:38.080 got a diagnosis that sometimes when we get these now, 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:39.840 we run this story in our head that says, my 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:41.640 brain's a problem, and. 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:43.080 If you have a problem, you're. 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:46.480 Going to be fixing it right instead of going, how 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:48.520 do I use this that I have to work in 0:52:49.120 --> 0:52:51.640 favor of me? So I just want to reorient your 0:52:51.680 --> 0:52:53.959 language around that a little bit and help you see 0:52:53.960 --> 0:52:56.759 that there's no problem happening here. What there is is 0:52:56.800 --> 0:53:00.080 a desire for you to be more present in your life. 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:02.120 And this is what I think all of us are 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:02.960 inviting you into. 0:53:03.320 --> 0:53:05.760 You know, no, because I used to use the ADHD 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:09.200 as my superpower, like you can do so much stuff. 0:53:09.600 --> 0:53:11.680 But after I got sick, my mind just kind of 0:53:11.719 --> 0:53:12.440 became my enemy. 0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:15.799 Well, and I think too, because you've had you know, 0:53:15.880 --> 0:53:18.960 some traumatic brain events. You may need some time to 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:20.080 heal with that. You know. 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.239 That's that, and that is everyone kept saying, give it time, 0:53:23.280 --> 0:53:25.640 give it time. And we're I think ten months in 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:29.000 now and only now I'm starting to feel a bit 0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:32.160 like myself again. Yeah, and that's and I am. And 0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:34.080 I have like a journal. I listened to your shit. 0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:37.239 I tried the twenty one days a habit forming thing. 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:38.719 I did it. I'm still doing it. 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:40.440 I bought a special journal for it, to do it 0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:43.480 in the morning and the evening. And I noticed that 0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:44.680 with certain things. 0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:46.680 I really really do try to be grateful. 0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.200 Like certain things that I couldn't be grateful a few 0:53:48.200 --> 0:53:50.480 months ago, that I'm like, I'm sleeping again, you know 0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:51.000 shit like that. 0:53:51.800 --> 0:53:53.640 Yeah, love, So I. 0:53:53.560 --> 0:53:56.360 Do try to, like I really am applying more of 0:53:56.400 --> 0:53:58.880 the present stuff. But it's difficult if your brain is 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:03.000 natural friend at the moment and it kind of messes 0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:03.640 with the system. 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:06.319 Yeah, well, I like what Justin said. I think that's 0:54:06.360 --> 0:54:09.279 really nice that, like, listen, you're recovering. Your brain is 0:54:09.320 --> 0:54:12.440 your friend, not your enemy, regardless of how crazy your 0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:15.440 thoughts are, how frenetic it may seem, it's your friend, 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:18.360 and you can make friends with your brain, you know. 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:22.040 Yeah, yeah, that's true, Laura. And I'm really serious. 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.200 I'm not I'm honest to God, not just sharing this 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:26.759 with you to promote my book at all. I'm sharing 0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:28.279 with you because I actually really think it would help. 0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.560 Like I really am a person who's with you, Like 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:34.000 my mind is going all the time, and I thought 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:37.719 I was somebody who could never meditate. And so that's 0:54:37.800 --> 0:54:40.280 literally why why I decided to write this is because 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:43.680 people write these meditation books thinking that you know, everybody 0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:46.160 can just sit and cross their legs, and you know, 0:54:46.200 --> 0:54:47.959 like Shelley was talking about it, and we all can't 0:54:48.040 --> 0:54:50.000 do that, and so we need a space that we 0:54:50.040 --> 0:54:53.120 can be able to drop into ourselves. So just anyway, 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:55.000 just check out my book. I promise it will help you. 0:54:55.040 --> 0:54:56.719 It's like the biggest gift to me when I hear 0:54:56.760 --> 0:54:57.360 somebody going. 0:54:57.200 --> 0:54:58.840 Through that what was the title again. 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:01.919 It's called Stay whe A Meditation Guide for the rest 0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:04.839 of Us. Okay, all right, I know woke means all 0:55:04.920 --> 0:55:06.920 kinds of bullshit. Now, it didn't mean that when I 0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.120 put the book out. But it's not about that. It's 0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:12.279 about you know, helping us. A meditation guide for the 0:55:12.320 --> 0:55:15.160 rest of us, you know. So, yeah, you got it, 0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:15.640 all right. 0:55:15.800 --> 0:55:18.080 My elderly mother likes to say she's woke. She thinks 0:55:18.080 --> 0:55:20.600 it's the thing that you have to say to everyone. 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:22.240 Now, I'm woke, go mama. 0:55:22.719 --> 0:55:24.839 Well I feel like this was a very productive phone call. 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.080 Yeah, I hope it was helpful. 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:29.560 This is very cool. You need to come perform here. 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:32.040 This is I live on an island called Puasa. It's 0:55:32.040 --> 0:55:33.680 next to Aruba. 0:55:33.920 --> 0:55:35.800 Well, i'll be there. I'll be there this weekend. 0:55:36.239 --> 0:55:37.319 And it's gorgeous. 0:55:37.400 --> 0:55:39.360 It's like everything you can think of a of a 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:40.400 Caribbean paradise. 0:55:40.880 --> 0:55:44.120 Oh well, yeah, the Caribbean is pretty gorgeous. So you're lucky. Well, 0:55:44.160 --> 0:55:47.319 I'm glad for you have and heal. Keep healing and 0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:49.600 keep doing the work. You're gonna you're gonna get to 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:51.560 a better place. You're coming out of it. 0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:54.359 Well, I mean I meant that I watched your show 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:55.280 and that was the first. 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:58.480 Time in three months that I left. 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.640 Yeah, it was I laughed so hard. I watched it 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:03.640 twice and I laughed again the second time. 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:05.240 That's amazing. 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:09.680 Yeah, all right, thanks Laura, thank you so much. 0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:13.720 Okay, bye Laura, all right, bye, Shelley. 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:15.560 I loved what you said about like the short little 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:17.920 snippets do because I do have ADHD and that has 0:56:17.920 --> 0:56:20.160 been something that's like helped me so much, is to 0:56:20.200 --> 0:56:21.640 just sprinkle them through the day. 0:56:22.360 --> 0:56:23.239 Yeah, it's big. 0:56:23.600 --> 0:56:25.799 Yeah, let's take a quick break and move back to 0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:32.800 wrap up with Justin and Shelley, and we're back. 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:37.640 That's my baby voice. 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:39.720 That's also your doggie boys. 0:56:40.480 --> 0:56:43.719 Oh, I haven't seen Bernice in so long. I can't 0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:46.720 wait to embrace her and have her reject to be I'm. 0:56:46.600 --> 0:56:50.480 Allergic to dogs. It's the worst. Oh yeah, I know it. 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:52.360 I hate it because dogs are so cute. 0:56:52.840 --> 0:56:55.040 I'm in the market for some new dogs anyway, since 0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.399 Bert fucking died and Bernice is here or she's no 0:56:58.480 --> 0:57:01.400 that it was months ago. Don't worry, but I'm in 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:03.480 the market and I'm ready to rumble. I just need 0:57:03.520 --> 0:57:06.840 a full house and that's operational. And then I'm just 0:57:06.840 --> 0:57:08.920 going to add to my brood. Who knows what's going 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:10.800 to happen next in the dog world with me. 0:57:11.239 --> 0:57:11.960 A whole pack. 0:57:12.239 --> 0:57:14.759 I love it, and probably I see these videos on 0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:17.160 Instagram where people have like eight or nine chowls, and 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:19.080 I'm like, that's what I want. I want to come 0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:21.760 home and have eight different colored chowls running towards me 0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:23.560 like a like a kibble commercial. 0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:30.720 Oh, like a moving carpet. Yes, yes, you'll be like 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:32.080 the Queen of England, like. 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:35.600 Yeah, exactly. I bet people always are confusing me with 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:39.320 her anyway. I mean, well, especially since she died. Oh no, 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:39.960 there's a new queen. 0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:40.400 I forgot. 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:43.680 I thought they all died anyway. Thank you guys for 0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:46.440 being on the show. I appreciate both of your advice. 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:48.600 It was but very great. Actually, you guys both gave 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:50.760 great advice. And the book is called How We Ended 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:55.960 Racism by Shelly Tagilski and Justin Michael Williams, and it's 0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:58.840 available now, so please go get a copy, and get 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:01.160 several copies actually and hand them out to all the 0:58:01.160 --> 0:58:02.160 fucking nsholes you know. 0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:06.320 Amen, Amen, let's do this together. 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:10.760 Amen. Thank you guys. Thank you for having la Yeah, 0:58:10.800 --> 0:58:13.000 my pleasure. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate it. 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.040 Bye, Chelsea. 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:17.200 Do you have some new dates for us? 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:17.640 Oh? 0:58:17.720 --> 0:58:18.400 You know, I do? 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:19.040 You know? 0:58:19.160 --> 0:58:19.520 I do? 0:58:19.840 --> 0:58:24.560 I have a lot of We added lots of Canadian cities, Canadians, 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:31.320 I'm coming. We added about fifteen new tour dates. I'm 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:36.360 coming to Denver again, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia, 0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:41.600 Santa Rosa, California, Gary and Deana, Baltimore, Verona, New York, 0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:46.760 and about seven dates in Canada. So go to Chelseahandler 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:49.680 dot com. I am performing everywhere. I will be on 0:58:49.720 --> 0:58:52.880 tour all for the rest of the year and through December, 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:55.640 and then next year I'm going to be touring all year. 0:58:56.440 --> 0:58:59.160 So come and get it, you guys. It's good times 0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:01.880 and it's a very very much needed reprieve from all 0:59:01.880 --> 0:59:05.360 the fucking madness that's going on in this world. So 0:59:05.560 --> 0:59:08.680 I'm here to bring joy and sunshine. Do you have a. 0:59:08.640 --> 0:59:11.880 Holiday themed question for Chelsea? Please send us all the 0:59:11.960 --> 0:59:16.560 questions you need answered about crazy family get togethers, arguing 0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:20.000 over which cranberry sauce recipe to use, and all your 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:23.720 holiday drama. Just send your questions to Dear Chelsea podcast 0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:27.280 at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered 0:59:27.280 --> 0:59:30.600 by Brad dickerd executive producer Catherine law And be sure 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:35.160 to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com