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Speaker 1: Stacy.

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Speaker 2: One of the wonderful and profoundly unfair things you do

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Speaker 2: on this show as you ask me questions which would

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Speaker 2: be the foundation of a wonderful dissertation. The work week

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Speaker 2: maybe over, but the economy it never takes time off,

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Speaker 2: even for America's two hundred and fiftieth birthday. I'm justin

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Speaker 2: Morpher's and this is Off the Clock, the show in

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Speaker 2: which we unwind the week's economic news.

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Speaker 1: After a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Off, I'm back with my friend and America's leading economics journalist,

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Speaker 2: Stacy Vanick Smith.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Well, I got a major promotion right there.

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Speaker 4: Technically speaking, I think if we're going to fact check this,

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Speaker 4: you can say that I'm a columnist for Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 4: Week and co host of the podcast Everybody's Business. That

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Speaker 4: will check out. But justin, I'm really glad to be

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Speaker 4: here with you on this the day of our nations

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Speaker 4: two hundred and fiftieth anniversary.

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Speaker 1: Stacey, it looks like you might be feeling to heat there.

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Speaker 3: Mate, Oh my god, it is. Yes, it is so hot.

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Speaker 3: My floor is sticky.

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Speaker 4: It's a scorcher one hundred and one degrees apparently today.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, bless new York. Okay, so today we're going

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Speaker 1: to wear are you I am on Cape.

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Speaker 4: Cod auspiciously refreshed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a different backdrop because I'm in a

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Speaker 1: different place.

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Speaker 2: I went for a swim this morning. I worked out.

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Speaker 2: I hope you notice the rippling muscles.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to see something.

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Speaker 1: It's not that you'll notice the good mood.

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Speaker 3: Oh I'm very jealous.

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Speaker 4: Well, I hope that you all are having you Betsy

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Speaker 4: and the kids are having a good breezy time.

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Speaker 3: That sounds divine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to do some work.

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Speaker 2: We're going to peek through the week's headlines. Our job, Stacey,

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Speaker 2: as you know, we're here to tell you what you

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Speaker 2: should actually be concerned about, what you can safely ignore,

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Speaker 2: and my favorite bit, we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 2: silver lining.

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Speaker 1: So today we've got three big stories to talk about.

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Speaker 2: The latest jobs report, how the economy is going, what

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Speaker 2: it means for folks at home, what it means for

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Speaker 2: the Fed, what it means for the world. July fourth,

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Speaker 2: the official launch of a new part of the tax code.

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Speaker 4: I'm jta Independence Dave yep Trump accounts.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, a nation founded on.

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Speaker 2: A tax revolt celebrates its two hundred and fiftieth with

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Speaker 2: a new few new paragraphs in the tax code called

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Speaker 2: Trump Accounts. And lastly, Stacey, I want to end with

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Speaker 2: a bit of reflection on the two hundred and fiftieth

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Speaker 2: anniversary of our nation's birth and year. You can say

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Speaker 2: that in an Aussie accent. Because this is a country

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Speaker 2: of immigrants. How can you and I as economists help

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Speaker 2: folks appreciate all the ways we've grown and changed.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's dive in.

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Speaker 4: I'm very excited to get started, and Happy birthday to America,

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Speaker 4: land of immigrants.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, which is why we do so well in soccer.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Okay, so Stacey, what did you say

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Speaker 2: in the jobs report?

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Speaker 4: Right? Okay, this I'm very excited to talk with you about.

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Speaker 4: Because we got the job support on Thursday, because the holiday,

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Speaker 4: we got it a day early.

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Speaker 3: It was not looking awesome.

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Speaker 4: I think the US economy added fifty seven thousand jobs,

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Speaker 4: which was less than we thought of. The unemployment rate

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Speaker 4: did tick down a little bit. I think we're at

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Speaker 4: four point two percent overall. It's fine, Like it's not

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Speaker 4: bad news. But I will say justin that the last

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Speaker 4: couple jobs reports were so positive and it was quite

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Speaker 4: exciting to see because things have been kind of sluggish

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Speaker 4: and the job market doesn't feel great, so it seemed

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Speaker 4: really exciting, and I just want to ask you about that,

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Speaker 4: but also a little bit of a larger question at

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Speaker 4: the same time while you're answering, which is this economy.

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Speaker 4: I've been covering the economy for a long time and

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Speaker 4: I'm a journalist and to see stories, right, I like

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Speaker 4: to see narrative threads in the economy, and normally the

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Speaker 4: economy delivers the narrative threads, and now I don't know

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Speaker 4: what's going on. I feel like it's like a bad

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Speaker 4: boyfriend this economy. It's like one minute you're like, oh,

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Speaker 4: things are going great, and the next minute you're like, wait,

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Speaker 4: what happened? And then you're like, oh, this seems really bad.

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Speaker 4: And so no, no, I guess things are okay. And

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Speaker 4: I feel like that is exactly what I thought about

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Speaker 4: when I saw this job's report, and I need you

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Speaker 4: to weigh in and tell us what is happening with

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Speaker 4: the jobs report and then beyond.

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Speaker 2: I love that Sticy. The thing you always do is

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Speaker 2: you focus is on the bigger pictures.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is a good it's a great question,

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Speaker 2: because it does feel like whiplash. I've got a sixteen

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Speaker 2: year old daughter. I know a little bit about bad boyfriends.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I'll go a little bit about.

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Speaker 1: She's not watching.

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Speaker 2: I know a little bit about the ups and downs

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Speaker 2: that occur, and honestly, I'm a little bit imoshinal. I've

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Speaker 2: noticed that from time to time when it comes to

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Speaker 2: the economy, not bad boyfriends, and I've been through a rollercaster.

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Speaker 1: So how do we make sense of that?

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Speaker 2: So one view is people often start with their politics

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Speaker 2: and move to their economics. I think that's the wrong direction.

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Speaker 2: So let me tell you an amazing fact. Let's imagine

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Speaker 2: five years ago at Stacey, I said to you in

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Speaker 2: June of twenty twenty six, the unemployment rate will be

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Speaker 2: four point two percent.

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Speaker 3: Oh great, awesome, awesome.

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Speaker 2: And that is our reality. It's a really strong reality.

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Speaker 2: It's a reality that goes against a lot of people's

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Speaker 2: emotional feeling about the economy right now. But it's a

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Speaker 2: reality that's worth It's not a false four point two percent.

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Speaker 2: They're not redefining it away. The numbers aren't being fiddled with.

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Speaker 2: This isn't account of how many people are on benefits.

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Speaker 2: It's a genuine four point two percent. This is actually

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Speaker 2: the sort of thing you and I would have dreamed

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Speaker 2: about a few years ago, historically.

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Speaker 3: Low unapplayment rate. It's awesome.

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Speaker 1: So I feel really good about that.

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Speaker 2: So how do we understan stand the emotional rollercoaster you

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Speaker 2: were just thinking about. I have my view on this,

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Speaker 2: which is I want to draw a distinction between the

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Speaker 2: economy and economic policy. The economy, the numbers that have

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Speaker 2: been coming out right now, four point two percent, as

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Speaker 2: you said.

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Speaker 1: Is pretty good.

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Speaker 2: That wasn't true through all of twenty twenty five. Twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five wasn't just a bad boyfriend. It was almost

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Speaker 2: an abusive boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The numbers were going way up, way down. We actually

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Speaker 2: had periods of creating no jobs whatsoever. It was that

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Speaker 2: was the sort of relationship where you would intervene. But

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Speaker 2: right now I think we're doing okay. So the economy

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Speaker 2: and I'm not saying it's perfect. Right A million people

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Speaker 2: are going to tell me. Remember you're talking about the average.

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Speaker 2: The distribution is maybe folks at the bottom aren't doing

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Speaker 2: as well. There's many, many individual stories of people who

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Speaker 2: are struggling. This workers young people who were finding it

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Speaker 2: hard to find work, which is a reality.

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Speaker 1: That's the economy.

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Speaker 2: The other side's economic policy, which is folks like you

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Speaker 2: and me have been out here saying, you know, I

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Speaker 2: just think it's a bad idea to start a global

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Speaker 2: trade war on a whim, with a set of tariffs

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Speaker 2: that make no sense that we're literally written up the

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Speaker 2: night before Liberation Day. I think it's a bad idea

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Speaker 2: to start a global trade war using tariffs that proved

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Speaker 2: to be unconstitutional, so we get all the downside of

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Speaker 2: the tariffs, and then we still pay them back anyway.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a bad idea to start an immediate

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Speaker 2: sharp immigration purge. I think it's a bad idea to

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Speaker 2: get the rest of the world off side. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a bad idea to then decide to bomb a

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Speaker 2: run without any sort of exit strategy or even victory strategy,

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Speaker 2: not to mention possibly that we don't win.

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Speaker 1: So economic policy I.

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Speaker 2: Think is unquestionably weak, poor, and in fact, something like

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Speaker 2: three quarters of Americans would judge economic policy right now

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Speaker 2: to be weak. So when you say to me, how's

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Speaker 2: the economy doing, I'm not sure, which are those two

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Speaker 2: questions you're asking me.

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Speaker 4: We did also get other data though that I just

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Speaker 4: want to interject in here really fast, about job openings

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Speaker 4: and hiring, and that also was looking pretty flat, which

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Speaker 4: is the real worrying thing. I mean, unemployment is low,

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Speaker 4: but they're calling you know. Also hiring is low and

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Speaker 4: job openings are low. So it can feel if you're

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Speaker 4: in a job now like you're stuck a little bit.

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Speaker 4: And if you don't have a job right now, the

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Speaker 4: unemployment low unemployment rate is great, but if there aren't

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Speaker 4: very many job openings, that doesn't feel great either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So another way of saying this is you can be

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Speaker 2: in a stable labor market where the unemployment rate is unchanged,

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Speaker 2: which is roughly where we are two different ways. One

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Speaker 2: each month we fire almost no one and we hire

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Speaker 2: almost no one, or the traditional American way was actually

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Speaker 2: a lot of people lose their jobs each month, but

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Speaker 2: a lot of people gain jobs each month. That means

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Speaker 2: the American lab market historically was very distinct from the

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Speaker 2: rest of the world. So in much of Europe, for instance,

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Speaker 2: or even for a long time in my home country

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Speaker 2: of Australia, if you lost a job, it would take

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Speaker 2: you a year to find your next job. Oh, so

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Speaker 2: that's the problem with if no one's getting fired and

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Speaker 2: no one's getting hired. If you lost your job, no

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Speaker 2: one's getting hired, So it will literally take you months

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Speaker 2: and months, maybe a year in some cases two years

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Speaker 2: to find work. So the risk of unemployment. Historically in

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Speaker 2: the US, the average duration of unemployment was around about

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Speaker 2: three months. So if you lost your job, you dust

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Speaker 2: yourself off, get back out there, throw out some measure made.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't run down all your savings.

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Speaker 3: You very dynamic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in what's happened with this low higher low

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Speaker 2: fire that we're in, would become a little bit more European,

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Speaker 2: not in the good way that our bagets taste better.

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Speaker 2: American baking could still use a leg up. It could

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Speaker 2: become a little more dynamic. Oh I see. This is

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Speaker 2: one of those mains where you say, I live in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: We have terrific bakers, we.

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Speaker 4: Have some good bread but by and large, it's very

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Speaker 4: difficult to say you're wrong on this one. Breads. Breads

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Speaker 4: are not where we shine as a country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, and then so it is one of the most

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Speaker 2: important reasons it's hard for young people. Is young people

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Speaker 2: exit college or Finnish high school without a job, and

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Speaker 2: so in a world in which there's no hiring, it

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Speaker 2: hurts young people more than it hurts others. So one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest debates that's running around now is we

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Speaker 2: see that young people are finding it hard to get work.

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Speaker 2: Question one is is it AI or is it this

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Speaker 2: movement to low higher low fire that remains somewhat unresolved.

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Speaker 2: The answer is it's a bit of both. That's boring

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Speaker 2: because I could be saying it's twenty eighty or eighty twenty.

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Speaker 2: The answer somewhere between those two.

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Speaker 3: So can I ask a question here?

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Speaker 4: I always thought one of the main reasons, at least

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Speaker 4: in Europe why there was low hire, low fire was

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Speaker 4: there were so many regulations in place that made it

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Speaker 4: hard for companies to fire people that then they hesitated

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Speaker 4: to hire people. But that's not really the key in

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Speaker 4: the US. So the causes must be different. Why aren't

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Speaker 4: people getting fired and hired?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: So, when we look across countries, you're exactly right to

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Speaker 2: try to figure out why do some countries have more

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Speaker 2: versus less dynamic labor markets. We usually look to what

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Speaker 2: we call institutions, which are what are the lasting features

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Speaker 2: of the labor markets. So it's not a question if

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Speaker 2: you know what happened to monetary policy last month. That's

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Speaker 2: what are the laws around firing. That's one of absolutely

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Speaker 2: one of the most important ones. Other things like how

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Speaker 2: much assistance is there to help the unemployed become retrained,

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Speaker 2: to become employable again in a changing economy, and in

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Speaker 2: some countries the welfare state, which is to say, unemployment

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Speaker 2: insurance is sufficiently generous that you think to yourself, should

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Speaker 2: I look for a job today, No, it's okay, I

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Speaker 2: can wait till tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to say that carefully. I don't want to be.

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Speaker 2: Ungenerous to people who are struggling. Whereas in the US

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Speaker 2: our unemployment insurance turns off after six months, and so

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Speaker 2: I better get a job or else.

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Speaker 1: I'm going hungry.

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Speaker 4: As not super generous, and in most places the amounts

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Speaker 4: are pretty low, like you can't live comfortably on unemployment.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and so none of those things have dramatically changed

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Speaker 2: in the United States. So, Stacy, one of the wonderful

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Speaker 2: and profoundly unfair things you do on this show is

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Speaker 2: you ask me questions which would be the foundation of

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Speaker 2: a wonderful dissertation.

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Speaker 4: That is, I think, very diplomatically put too broad.

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Speaker 3: Is that what I've saying.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it's actually no, You're doing exactly the

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Speaker 2: right thing. These are the most important questions of our times.

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Speaker 2: What's changing that we're becoming somewhat more sclerotic. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to overstate the degree to which work become somewhat

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Speaker 2: more sclerotic, but it's absolutely the case. Now, you know,

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Speaker 2: you could say, let me give you a sketch of

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Speaker 2: an answer that I don't believe just because I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure it's big enough to explain all of this. This

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Speaker 2: administration believes very closely, very much in its relationship to business.

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Speaker 2: The President's always calling in Tim Apple or other business leaders.

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Speaker 2: Sam Altman's by the White House every second day.

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Speaker 1: All of that.

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Speaker 2: What he's doing is his striking deals. He's getting stuff

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Speaker 2: out of the way. But notice the only people the

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Speaker 2: president can talk to with the leaders of existing businesses.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it's all big businesses, and so what that's doing.

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Speaker 2: And also, by the way, tariff uncertainty, all of the chaos,

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Speaker 2: These big businesses have armies of lawyers whose job is

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Speaker 2: to look through this. If you run a small business,

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Speaker 2: like say Platypus Economics, you find the whole thing thoroughly confusing.

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Speaker 2: And so all of this, and by the way, Platypus

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Speaker 2: Economics has never been invited to the White House to

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Speaker 2: talk about the regulations that are getting in our way.

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Speaker 4: Not one, not once, not once tomorrow lago.

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Speaker 2: Even while I was invited, it was a million bucks

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Speaker 2: of plate and Platypus Economics didn't have that. But so

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Speaker 2: you see how this systematically hard wires a bias towards

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Speaker 2: existing businesses. And now I'm going to use provocative language,

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Speaker 2: but it's actually the only use for language the unborn.

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Speaker 1: Who this hurts the unborn businesses. Oh, so it's.

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Speaker 3: Harder to get off the ground.

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Speaker 4: It's more expensive to get a loan because interest rates

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Speaker 4: are high, and you aren't big enough to get a

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Speaker 4: carve out the way that you can if you are,

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Speaker 4: you know, Tim Cook or something that's right.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm not I think that that's everything I

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Speaker 2: just said is true. I suspect it's true enough to

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Speaker 2: be economically meaningful, but I haven't done any enough work

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Speaker 2: to say therefore it explains this, And so I don't

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Speaker 2: want to say that I have an explanation for you.

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Speaker 2: In some sense, was using that as an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: riff Stacey. Have you figured out why people are so

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Speaker 2: unhappy if the economy is doing all right?

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Speaker 4: I think it's a few things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, consumer sentiment.

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Speaker 4: We talked about this before, and you've done I know,

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Speaker 4: platypus videos on this is the consumer sentiment which is

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Speaker 4: out of your your home University of Michigan, and has

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Speaker 4: been since the thirties. I think, lewis it's ever been

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Speaker 4: on record, which is wild because, like you say, the

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Speaker 4: data actually is quite good in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 4: Four point two percent of employment is amazing. Our stock

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Speaker 4: market's never been higher.

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Speaker 3: In a lot of ways.

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Speaker 4: Our economy is just a beacon in the world. But

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Speaker 4: it does not feel great. I think part of it

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Speaker 4: is the low higher low fire, because that makes you

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Speaker 4: feel a little trapped as a worker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me double doubt on that.

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Speaker 2: Betsy Stevenson, who is I mean, I'm going to sign

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Speaker 2: on these podcasts. She's my fist sake and favorite economist.

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Speaker 2: You're my favorite sticicy I'm not an economist. Great, great,

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Speaker 2: I want everyone sh Betsy is my favorite economist. Sticy's

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Speaker 2: my favorite economics journalist.

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Speaker 3: I will take that. That makes me very proud. That

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Speaker 3: makes me very proud.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but honestly, no one till Betsy please, oh my god.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, no that that that will not happen. That yeah,

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Speaker 4: I can, I can.

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Speaker 2: And actually no, I'm rethinking it. Even if you were

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Speaker 2: an economist.

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Speaker 1: Stacey, I prefer her.

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Speaker 3: I just that's fair, that's fair.

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Speaker 4: The mother of Miels I would also prefer her.

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Speaker 3: She does excellent work.

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Speaker 1: Well, who do you like more out of me and her?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't worry.

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Speaker 4: It's like a tie.

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Speaker 2: I can't the male leg I can't take it. Speaking

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Speaker 2: of male league as, here's my favorite job market fact. Yes,

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Speaker 2: since January twenty twenty five, women have gotten ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of all job gains.

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Speaker 3: What does that mean? Job gains?

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Speaker 2: Okay, take the level of employment in January of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five. Take the level of employment today. Count up

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Speaker 2: how many extra female jobs you've got? Count up how

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Speaker 2: many extra male jobs?

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Speaker 3: Like who's getting hired?

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Speaker 1: Yep?

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Speaker 3: Men or women?

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Speaker 2: Okay, there are nine times as many new jobs with

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Speaker 2: women in them as there are jobs with men in them.

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Speaker 4: Is that because of the kind of job or just right.

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Speaker 2: I love just the sort of shooter irony of it.

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Speaker 1: The Trump economy is delivered for women.

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Speaker 2: All that talk of hard hacks, steel toe burts, manufacturing renaissance,

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Speaker 2: it has delivered big buffy blokes a returned to nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixties family values has delivered jobs for women and almost

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Speaker 2: none for men.

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Speaker 1: You guessed exactly right. What it is is.

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Speaker 2: Almost entirely the structure of the job gains. That they're

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Speaker 2: coming into industries that have been historically female carded. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: most particularly healthcare and social services.

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Speaker 4: Right the healthcare has been the big I mean, it

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Speaker 4: has been the begon of our job market for a

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Speaker 4: long time. But one of the things that actually Betsy

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Speaker 4: spoke about with me at one point, this was a

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Speaker 4: little while ago, but she said she was especially worried

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Speaker 4: about AI coming after women's jobs. That she worried that

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Speaker 4: previous industrial revolutions had really taken a lot of jobs

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Speaker 4: that had been traditionally done by men, and she worried

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Speaker 4: this one was going to take a lot of assistant

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Speaker 4: jobs and other jobs that were sort of primarily female

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Speaker 4: right now, So it's interesting, it's an interesting moment for

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Speaker 4: women in work.

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Speaker 2: And so we'll follow the usual rule of economics, which

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Speaker 2: is Betsy's always right. And to those who don't know,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Betty Stevenson is both a superb economist.

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Speaker 2: She was one of President Obama's advisors. She's a professor

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Speaker 2: at the University of Michigan. She's also my partner and

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Speaker 2: baby mama and occasional source to Stacy.

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Speaker 1: That's right, yah.

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Speaker 2: So there was a lot of hats, so many hats,

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Speaker 2: and you know it looks like hats for sale.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever read that book.

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Speaker 2: So it's about a man who has a lot of

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Speaker 2: hats and he sells them.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't have a lot of name.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like an app title.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's a kid's book. So you know what's

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Speaker 2: going on with AI and the gender aspect. I think

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Speaker 2: the simplest way of thinking about this is past revolutions,

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Speaker 2: things like electricity, the steam engine and so on, have

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Speaker 2: been a substitute for braun. Yes, and blokes tend to

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Speaker 2: have more braun. I'm going to go fully Aussie on you.

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Speaker 2: And the opposite of a bloke is a sheila. And

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Speaker 2: so this one's coming after cognition and blokes don't have

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Speaker 2: a competitive advantage in cognition. If anyone has a comparative

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Speaker 2: advantage racial cognition brain to braun, Sheila's are a head

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Speaker 2: on that ratio. I'm not saying Sheila is a smarter

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Speaker 2: I'm saying that they have less braun. I think that's

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Speaker 2: okay to say. And so women are in knowledge work

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Speaker 2: and pink color occupations. Another way thing thinking about this

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Speaker 2: is this revolution is fundamentally one of language. Yes, and

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Speaker 2: language is an important part, for instance, of your job stacy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very much so.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that's going on in this economy right

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Speaker 2: now is the traditional brawn based model is disappearing. I

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Speaker 2: think it's disappearing before the Ai Revolution. In fact, it

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Speaker 2: has been disappearing for decades. The president came to power

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Speaker 2: promising a manufacturing renaissance. We're still losing manufacturing jobs. There

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Speaker 2: are people who will focus on this month's number. That's

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Speaker 2: almost always commenting on statistical noise. But you know, the

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Speaker 2: traditional big boofy bloke jobs are continuing to decline. The

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Speaker 2: future of work for men, if there is one, is

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Speaker 2: getting a little bit comfortable with with moving into the

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Speaker 2: service economy, which is not historically male.

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Speaker 4: Coded come on in the water's fine.

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Speaker 2: Look it's also even Yeah, so much I could say

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Speaker 2: about modern masculinity, but I'm not going to go there.

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Speaker 3: Right, Wow, that's a whole other podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking Actually, actually there's a light transition here, which

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Speaker 2: is we saw a display of a certain form of

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Speaker 2: masculinity by Kevin Walsh, who is our new.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, first press conference.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Okay, I'm dying to hear your breakdown of this,

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Speaker 4: because I of course was watching with beited breath. Actually,

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Speaker 4: most people probably were not as excited about this as

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Speaker 4: I was, but I think people were very interested even

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Speaker 4: in general, to see what he was going to say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a few things.

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Speaker 2: One I observed he made it clear that his is

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Speaker 2: not a continuation of the previous administration.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: The length of the statement was one hundred and thirty words.

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Speaker 1: Statement.

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Speaker 2: He almost tweeted a statement instead of it being as

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Speaker 2: it typically is, a page long five hundred.

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Speaker 3: I actually he was a reporter.

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Speaker 4: If some if your editors, as can you do one

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Speaker 4: hundred and thirty words? It feels like either the deadline

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Speaker 4: is really near, or they don't think the story is

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Speaker 4: very good, or you're on the social media desk or

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Speaker 4: you're on the social media desk.

443
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 3: That's right.

444
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 4: Should in thirty words, that is wild.

445
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: I didn't realize Kevin is not a big believer in

446
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: central bank communication.

447
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 3: No, he's not into transparency.

448
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 2: He wouldn't say it that way, but I believe that

449
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 2: that's exactly right.

450
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 4: He would even I mean, BERNANKI was so into transparency

451
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 4: explaining financial crisis. This is what's going on, this is why,

452
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 4: this is what we're going to do. Forward guidance, you know,

453
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 4: where he's like, this is what we're going to do.

454
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 4: This is why we're going to do it. And worsh

455
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 4: has been pretty explicit, like fewer press conferences. We don't

456
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 4: need to explain ourselves. We don't need to tell everybody

457
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: what we're thinking.

458
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: Yes, his side of the story is if we explain ourselves,

459
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: then everyone thinks that that's a contract, and then we

460
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: have to move this way even if the world changes.

461
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 1: The Steelman version of this.

462
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 2: Now, if your concern was if I say something, I'm

463
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: going to feel locked in by it, my therapist would say,

464
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: just don't be locked in just because she said something.

465
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: Justin that he says it all the time. You don't

466
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: have to fall through you can change your mind, that's

467
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: all right. And so look, I'm gonna send Kevin my

468
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 2: therapist's number, and you know, if he actually calls.

469
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: I mean, there is a.

470
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: Certain vary in defense of ye, mister Walsh. I think

471
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: it's a little bit different because the markets are so

472
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 4: reactive to everything the Federal Reserve does. I mean, forget,

473
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 4: let us not forget the Taper tantrum where Ben bernank

474
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 4: like basically hinted that maybe all of the federal Fed

475
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 4: intervention into the economy was going to let up now

476
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 4: that the financial crisis seemed to be mostly behind us.

477
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 4: The markets lost their minds for months. It was like

478
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 4: sell off, sell up, sell off. So there is this

479
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: outside reaction to everything the Fed does.

480
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: So I do I have some I have, you know, I.

481
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 4: Don't think it's a it's without reason to want to

482
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: be a little less transparent.

483
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 3: I think there's a logic to it.

484
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,479
Speaker 1: I'm going to violently disagree. Actually, so I only disagree.

485
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: Tell me the historical.

486
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: Reference for folks was during the bananki Fed. You know,

487
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 2: he basically said a comment in a half and markets

488
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: sold off.

489
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: And everything went crazy. So here's the.

490
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: Thing is, if what you're doing is you're telling a

491
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 2: story and you add another sentence to the story every week.

492
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: Then markets are grounded. They understand where you're coming from

493
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: and where you're going. If you move back to I'm

494
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 2: just going to occasionally speak, they're guessing and then like,

495
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 2: oh he just said this, it must mean this crazy thing.

496
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: Oh we just said that, it must mean this other thing.

497
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 2: So were we in a gambling frame of mind, I

498
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: would be willing to bet we're going to see greater

499
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: volatility in Federal Fund's futures as a result of WASH's

500
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: opacity opacity although he did.

501
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 4: Give some pretty strong I mean, I don't I feel

502
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 4: like the effect of his talk was not volatility. He said,

503
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 4: you know, we are committed to price stability, which is

504
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 4: basically fed code for we're not going to cut interest rates.

505
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 4: At least that's how I read it. So I think

506
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 4: he did give a pretty strong shot across the bow

507
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 4: and exactly the way you're talking, Stacy.

508
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: What I love is giving you the last word. So

509
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: you just had it. You beat me, you win.

510
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: The reason I gave you the last word is I

511
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: want to get to another topic, which is we are

512
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: celebrating the official lawnch not just the two hundred and

513
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: fiftieth birthday of the United States, but we're celebrating and

514
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: both throwing cash in the air.

515
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: Which is as of July fourth.

516
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: The Trump accounts, which are tax advantage investment accounts for

517
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: the kiddos. They were created as part of the One

518
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 2: Big Beautiful Bill. They're now officially with us. Stacey, do

519
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: you know about this? Do you want to take a

520
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 2: first stab at trying to explain what they are?

521
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 4: From what I understand, it's a little bit like this,

522
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 4: this concept people have often had of baby bonds, where

523
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 4: somewhat a child is born and you set up an

524
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 4: account for them and you can put some very safe

525
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 4: assets in it. It's a little bit protected from you know,

526
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: taxes and things like that, and it's just a way

527
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 4: to give this kid a little start in the world.

528
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 4: It's a place where you can put money they can

529
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 4: save for college. It's a little bit like a four

530
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 4: to oh.

531
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 3: One k, but for life instead of for retirement.

532
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 4: That's that's my very basic understanding of the Trump accounts.

533
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: It sounds adorable.

534
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: I know, baby bonds. What's not to love?

535
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: Okay, So let me actually dig into some of the

536
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 2: detail because I think what it is is a lightly

537
00:26:53,520 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: adorable pace with which distracts from my inequality enhancing set

538
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: of tax deductions. So there's actually two parts to this,

539
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: so one and also plus there's the populist nonsense you

540
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: would expect at a moment like this. So the first

541
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: part of it is, if you're a baby born between

542
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five and twenty twenty eight, the government puts

543
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars in a stock account for you. That's

544
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 2: really nice. I mean, if you're born in twenty twenty nine,

545
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you know. So the whole thing's not funded.

546
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: It's not really that serious.

547
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen. I thought it.

548
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: I knew there was an early start date, but there's

549
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 4: like it's like a finite little window.

550
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: Oh wow, which, by the way, might not be how

551
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: you do physical policy, but it is a way of

552
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: you might notice. The end of it is twenty twenty eight.

553
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: Is there anything happening in November of twenty twenty.

554
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: Eight presidential election is happening?

555
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: Wow?

556
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: I wonder why these things keep sunsetting exactly in even

557
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: numbered years. By the way, that's also winning the no

558
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: tax on tips goes away, no text on overtime. Who

559
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: by the way, don't worry, Stacy. I see you're worried,

560
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: but don't worry. The tax cuts for the rich they

561
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: don't sunset. It's only the populist policies at sunset.

562
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Okay, So.

563
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: The basic rule of dumb is, if it affects the

564
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: middle class, sunsets in twenty twenty eight. If it affects

565
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: the elites, we're already paid prittle.

566
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: That's permanent.

567
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: Interesting.

568
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, so talk more about these accounts though. So

569
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 4: you get a thousand bucks if you're born within this

570
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 4: window before twenty twenty nine. And then but you were

571
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: talking about how like you're worried it's going to contribute

572
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: to inequality or maybe exacerbate current inequality.

573
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: You get the thousand bucks in Yeah, it goes into stocks,

574
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: which is really interesting. By the way, it's rhetorically interesting,

575
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: it's economically interesting. So you know, the rhetorically interesting part

576
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 2: is you know, you're eighteen and you look down and

577
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: your own stocks. Yea, you own part of the American economy.

578
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 2: And I think the economically interesting part of you know,

579
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: when this has been by the way, this has been

580
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: historically suggested by progressive economists Corey Booker had a plan

581
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: like this as well. Corey Booker's plan was a much

582
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: bigger amount of money, and it was means tested, so

583
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: it would only get to low income kids. So it's

584
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: only one thousand dollars. It's you know, all right, fine,

585
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: It's typically been very progressive. But one of the nice

586
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: things it does is historically, in many economies, including the

587
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: United States, has been a fight between capital and labor.

588
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: That's been the most important division, and those fights can

589
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: be quite unproductive. And if you can find ways in

590
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: which regular families, regular workers own some of the stock market,

591
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: then they're also part of capital. And as a result,

592
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: you can blunt in these distributional conflicts, which changes politics

593
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: and the scope for productive economic policy, which is great.

594
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: Giving a baby on a thousand bucks isn't going to do that.

595
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: But you know, there's a lot of pro business, pro

596
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: stock market rhetoric around all of this. I'm basically okay

597
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: with that. Okay, So that's the main policy. It's what

598
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: progressive economists have been in favor of. It's much smaller,

599
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: but you know, it moves in the right direction, and

600
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: it's unfunded. Be on twenty twenty eight. Okay, the other

601
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: side is that your family and your employer can contribute

602
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: another five thousand dollars in a tax advantaged way to

603
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: your account. Okay, Now, the thing about that is, first

604
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: of all, lots of families don't have five thousand dollars

605
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: a year to put in. But more to the point,

606
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: the way to think about tax advantages. So the tax

607
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: system is so bloody complicated. And by the way, our

608
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 2: audience is going to be thrilled by this. I don't

609
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: understand taxes very well. Actually, they might not be thrilled.

610
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: They might be hoping for expertise. But I'm as confused

611
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: as you are. Fortunately I can ask an expert, which

612
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: is my better half, Betsy Stevenson, does in fact understand

613
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: all of this. So here's one way of thinking about

614
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: tax advis It's basically, I invest my five thousand dollars

615
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: dollars and the government sends me a check. Now, in reality,

616
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: what they do is, instead of me sending the government

617
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: a big check, I send the government a smaller check.

618
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,959
Speaker 2: That's what any kind of tax deduction is, right. I

619
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: think it's more honest to think about it as if

620
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: the government's sending me a check, because it's like a

621
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: form of welfare. Okay, so realize any time the government

622
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: announces a tax deduction, it's almost always an income tax deduction.

623
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 2: A lot of working in middle class Americans pay a

624
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: lot of taxes, but no income taxes.

625
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 3: Right.

626
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: They pay a lot of sales taxes, they pay a

627
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: lot of payroll taxes, but they don't pay federal income tax.

628
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: You know, there's the un income tax credit and so on.

629
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: So a new credit where the government is offering to

630
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: reduce my tax bill. When my tax bill is zero,

631
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: it's worth zero dollars to me.

632
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 3: Okay.

633
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: What that means is anytime the government, and this is

634
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: true of no taxes on Social Security, no taxes on tips,

635
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: and on anytime the government does something through tax deductions

636
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: as opposed to checks. It's it's a very clever way

637
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: of disguising the reality that working class Americans won't get it.

638
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: It only when it goes to upper middle class and

639
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 2: above Americans.

640
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: And so that's a general.

641
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 4: Commic mortgage tax deduction, things like that, right.

642
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: And actually it's even crazy than that. Right.

643
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: Imagine the government says I want to send your kid,

644
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: you know, a few thousand dollars, yeah, to the amount

645
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: that it sends your kid, because it's a cut off

646
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: my taxable income. The higher my taxable income is, the

647
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: higher my tax rate is. So therefore the higher subsidy

648
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: I get from the government is So this point I

649
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: want to dwell on it because I think it's important

650
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: beyond Trump accounts. I want people to get in the

651
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: habit of understanding whenever you hear the word tax deduction,

652
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: it's a way of helping those who are and more

653
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: rather than those who are less, and actually providing even

654
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: more assistance to those in the highest incomes because they're

655
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: at the highest tax brackets. Now, a common counter is, yes,

656
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: but the low income folks they don't pay taxes, so

657
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: this is fair, And that's not true. They do pay taxes.

658
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: They pay a lot of taxes, they just don't. They

659
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: pay state taxes, they pay sales taxes, they pay payroll taxes.

660
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: It's just income taxes, one part of our whole slew

661
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: of taxes. So by doing all of this through the

662
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: income tax system, we're doing it through the one way

663
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: in which we're not helping a bunch of folks.

664
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: Interesting, that is really interesting.

665
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 4: So you see the Trump bonds, the baby bonds, as

666
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 4: potentially very much advantaging wealthier kids because if you are

667
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 4: a wealthier parent, you can afford to put more kind

668
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 4: of protected money in this bond, and your kid has

669
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 4: even more of a leg up than they already would have.

670
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it makes it cheaper for the upper middle

671
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: class and above to transfer money to the next generation. Right,

672
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: So I want people to understand Trump accounts as two policies.

673
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 2: Here's a three thousand bucks. I'm not going to tell

674
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: you what your view about that is. I just want

675
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: you to have one. And here's a set of tax

676
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: advantages for the upper middle class and above to transfer

677
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: money to their next generation. They're quite separate, calling them

678
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: Trump accounts, and actually just reading the analysis, it's mind

679
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: blowing how hard it is to separate those two ideas.

680
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 2: It seems like quite self consciously done. And of course

681
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: when people think about Trump accounts. By the way, if

682
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: you are having a kid anytime soon, folks at home,

683
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: I do want you to go and sign up for

684
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: that thousand bucks. You actually have to sign up for it,

685
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: because this is the government, and the government doesn't actually

686
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 2: just I can get all though enrolled in a bunch

687
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: of things.

688
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: But apparently they don't like sending you.

689
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 2: A thousand bucks, so enroll your kid, get your thousand bucks.

690
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: They deserve it, You deserve it, and I'm happy to

691
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: pay my taxes to make your little baby there the

692
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: holder of a thousand dollars worth of stock certificates.

693
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: What a beautiful moment.

694
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: I agree.

695
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 2: See now, I also want to just vent about something.

696
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 4: If I may, go for it, that's why we're here.

697
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: I went to Trump accounts dot is it?

698
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: It's part of it?

699
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: Okay, feelings about the economy, gotta let it out.

700
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: You're a therapist, would agree.

701
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure when I say I talk about my feeling,

702
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: let it out.

703
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 4: Feeling your feelings. That's what therapists always used to say,

704
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: feel your feelings.

705
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: Feel okay, great?

706
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: Well, then I never figure out what that meant.

707
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm going to lean into feeling my feelings.

708
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 2: I am kissed. I went to Trump Accounts dot GV. Okay,

709
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: look this Trump account sing it's a very serious policy

710
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 2: that lasts for three years, a non serious amount of time,

711
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 2: so with a non serious amount of budgeting. But's you know,

712
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: it's economic policy.

713
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: It's serious.

714
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: This is a ton of money. This is real people's

715
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: real lives well on their website.

716
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: Wait, I'm going now, what is it called.

717
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: Trump Accounts dot gov. It's the most infuriating set of

718
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: horseshit bullshit and wives. They have a calculator telling you

719
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: how much your Trump account will grow to. And what

720
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: they've done is they've just thrown utterly absurd assumptions of this.

721
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: And according to Trump Accounts dot Gov, which is to say,

722
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 2: the White House that if you get these government thousand

723
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 2: dollars contributions by age eighteen, you don't put anything in

724
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 2: that'll be worth six grand fair enough.

725
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: They reckon that by age fifty five that'll be worth

726
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: a quarter of a million dollars.

727
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 3: It's possible.

728
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: It's possible.

729
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely might be snowing in New York next June

730
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: as well.

731
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: If you buy Apple at for dollars a share.

732
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: You know, their claim, I'm not kidding, is you accept

733
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: the government's thousand, and you contribute the five thousand a

734
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: year while your kid's a kid, right un till they're eighteen.

735
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: They reckon by age fifty five that'll be worth thirteen

736
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: million dollars.

737
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 4: Wow, I mean no, that's bullshit. That's very optimistic.

738
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, a much better journalist than I am calling that optimistic.

739
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: I'm done with you if, Missms, I'm sick of bullshit.

740
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: This is people's lives, and if you're going to give

741
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: them estimates, they should be realistic estimates. They should be

742
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 2: adjusted for inflation, they should have an error band around them.

743
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: They should give you a basis for making real decisions.

744
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: Saying if you take up this plan, your kid will

745
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: be worth thirteen million dollars is a flat out line,

746
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: and I'm pissed about it, and I'm feeling my feelings.

747
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: But I guess at this point dishonesty, that's nothing new.

748
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: So why don't we talk about something happier, Stacy?

749
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 3: That sounds good. I'm just looking at this calculator now.

750
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, apparently, if you just get the thousand dollars by

751
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 4: age fifty five, you'll have two hundred and forty three thousand.

752
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: Even.

753
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 3: Sure, that's true.

754
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: It's a magic money machine.

755
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 3: I'm all for magic money machines.

756
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, Stacey, let's change the emotional mode.

757
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: Let's do it. Yes, Okay, let's feel.

758
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: Some happy feelings. Is there anything to make me happy? Stacey?

759
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 4: I mean I would say that whatever your feelings are

760
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 4: at this moment about the economy or the country.

761
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 3: Fourth of July. You know, we've made it two hundred

762
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 3: and fifty years. That's pretty good.

763
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: I am taking the kids out to a small town parade. Oh,

764
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: my son's going to be in the parade. What they're

765
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: going to throw candy?

766
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: Awesome?

767
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: I feel incredible about it.

768
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: So I actually thought, this is a nice moment also

769
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: for us, as you can on enthusiasts to reflect on.

770
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: So it's the point, you might say, so I love it.

771
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: If we go week to week, you can get annoyed

772
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: and frustrated and feel naked of about the economy and

773
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: what it's delivered. But if you look over longer periods

774
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: of time. You've told me to look over fifty year

775
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: periods of time, it's start to see a more optimistic story.

776
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: But so I thought, today, let's look over two hundred

777
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: and fifty years and compare today's economy to what it

778
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: was in seventeen seventy six.

779
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yes, I love this.

780
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 2: That you're going to discover the magic of economic growth,

781
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: that in fact, ours is a narrative of progress, and

782
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 2: that we've got to get out of this week to

783
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: week and pan back and you'll see that our lives

784
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: today are pretty extraordinary compared to what they might once

785
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: have been.

786
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm very excited to hear this. What did you find?

787
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So this blew my mind. How many?

788
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: So there's three hundred and forty million people in America today?

789
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: How many do you reckon there were in seventeen seventy six.

790
00:39:53,120 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 4: Counting need of populations, Yes, hmm, like ten million.

791
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna I'm going to give you a

792
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 2: really good grade. That's two and a half million. But

793
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: for economics, getting the right number of zeros is really good.

794
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 3: I appreciate the great inflation.

795
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: Right, So basically the United States was smaller than Kansas

796
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: City is today.

797
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 3: Wow. Two million people.

798
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: That's okay.

799
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: Here's the one that really blew my mind. If you

800
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: look at material standards of living, the typical American in

801
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: seventeen seventy six, their average income, their average production we

802
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 2: call it GDP per capita if you want, was roughly

803
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: at the level of poor Sub Saharan African countries today.

804
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: Wow, which I think is interesting in two ways.

805
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 2: One how poor we were back then, and two how

806
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 2: much some economies have failed that folks are stuck at

807
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 2: not much above survivor and in some cases below survival

808
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: to even today. So the United States was born at

809
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: one level, one of the rich, a very very rich

810
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: country compared to other countries at the time, but still

811
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: by any measure, a very very poor country. But what's

812
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: striking about that is it's only two hundred and fifty

813
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: years later, and our material standards of living are roughly thirty.

814
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: To forty times higher.

815
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: Wow.

816
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: So the amount of stuff we can buy, the amount

817
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: of stuff we produce there, and this is adjusting for

818
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 2: things like quality changes and so on. So you know,

819
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: you hear people occasionally look back wistfully and say, wasn't

820
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: America great back then? And the answer is no, no, no,

821
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: it wasn't. Typical person life expectancy at birth was about

822
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 2: maybe late thirties.

823
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 3: Wow.

824
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 2: Now, it turns out, by the way, lots of folks

825
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 2: back then lived into their sixties. So you could say,

826
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: how's life expectancy so low? I mean, it's stunning, right,

827
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: thirty five, thirty six, thirty seventy eight, some number line that,

828
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: And it's because so many people died before age five.

829
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and a lot of people died in childbirth,

830
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 4: and also new antibiotics. So if you yeah, I mean,

831
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 4: if you got an infection, if you got to cut

832
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 4: the god infected it was curtains.

833
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's actually really amazing. So not only

834
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: was the rate at which women died during childbirth so very,

835
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: very high, people must have known that, Like you know,

836
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: you lost an aunt, a sister, or a neighbor. So

837
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: just think about the extraordinary act of faith it must

838
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: have been to become a parent knowing you might die.

839
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm really struck by it. I am.

840
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a dad.

841
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: I sat next to Betsy while we were going through childbirth,

842
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: and the truth is, actually, if Betsy with our pregnancy,

843
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: can I call it ours?

844
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's that's very progressive. Yes, I

845
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 4: think she were pregnant, Yeah.

846
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: She'd call it stolen valor you know, a couple of

847
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: things went wrong, which meant she would have died.

848
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: In seventeen seventy six.

849
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

850
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 2: And I don't know whether it's something about the resilience

851
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: of the human spirit that people really want to create

852
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: another generation, or you know, the other side of me

853
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: can't help but joke, maybe people were so damn horny.

854
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: I mean, that's part of it.

855
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean putting death on the table doesn't that.

856
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: I mean I could just imagine a candlelight dinner back then,

857
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: and I don't know, if I was a Sheila, I'd

858
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: be like, you know what, we're not going past third

859
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: base tonight.

860
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like dying.

861
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean there were other things too,

862
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 4: because if you were a Sheila back then, chances are

863
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 4: it would have been a little tough to earn a living.

864
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 4: So there was like an economic issue too, where.

865
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, So look, all of that's just

866
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: to say I didn't hope, I didn't get distracted by

867
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: anything along the way there. All that's to say, heavy Birthday, America.

868
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: There's another one, finally, extraordinary change. I want to leave

869
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: you with, because there's so much angst and anxiety on

870
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: this two hundred and fiftieth birthday about AI and dramatic

871
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: economic change, and I just want to remind you that

872
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: dramatic economic change is the story of America. That back

873
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: in seventeen seventy six, almost everyone farmed. They farmed because basically,

874
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: one person could grow enough crops to one family could

875
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: grow enough crops to feed one point two families, and

876
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: as a result, you needed sort of eighty or ninety

877
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: percent of the population working on farms. Now one point

878
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: two percent of American population is on farms. It's not

879
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: the food went out of fashion, in fact, I just

880
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: ate it was delicious. Instead, it's that the folks on

881
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 2: farms have become so intensely productive they had the AI

882
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 2: of their time them become so intensely productive. We didn't

883
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 2: need that many people doing the stuff that in sevene

884
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: and seventy six we imagined was the stuff of economic life,

885
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: which was agriculture. And so the optimistic story about AI

886
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: is maybe we're about to discover that we don't need

887
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 2: so many of us doing all the things we do.

888
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: As you and I are.

889
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: About to be replaced by AI, we have fewer people

890
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: doing that stuff, and we discover whatever it is that's

891
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: going to be the new and beautiful story for the

892
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: next two hundred and fifty years.

893
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 4: I love that takeaway. I love that perspective on AI.

894
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 3: And you're right.

895
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 4: I mean progress is always uncomfortable, and as is growth,

896
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 4: and I feel like your therapist would agree with me there.

897
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: But it's also like part of you know living, you know,

898
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 4: evolving changing shedding things, and I like thinking of AI

899
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 4: as part of that cycle. I think that's like a

900
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 4: really beautiful framing and really a really nice way to

901
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 4: go into the two hundred and fiftieth.

902
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: So let's take that optimism. I love it.

903
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 2: Let's bottle that optimism. Remember that actually our economic story

904
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: is an optimistic story. So, folks, this has been Off

905
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: the Clock the Economics podcast in which Stacy Mannix Smith

906
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: and I slow down, we review the week that was

907
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 2: and try to sort out what really matters. We're going

908
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: to be back in a couple of weeks with the

909
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: next installment. In the meantime, Platypus Economics is an experiment

910
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: and we need your help. So if you enjoy this,

911
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: can you let a mate know, Can you drop a comment,

912
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: can you subscribe?

913
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: Can you like? But actually, what I really.

914
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: Want to do is you find someone today or this

915
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: week and say America is celebrating one hundred and fifty

916
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: years and the best way to do that is to

917
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 2: subscribe to Platypus Economics, because there is nothing more American

918
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: than a platypus.

919
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Stacey and I are going to keep

920
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: on top.

921
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: Of all the economic news you don't have time for,

922
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: say stay Creius.

923
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 4: It is an

924
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: Intan