Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to Packers Unscripted and welcome back to
Speaker 1: the NFL Scouting Combine. We are here at the Indiana
Speaker 1: Convention Center in downtown Indianapolis from Packers dot Com. I
Speaker 1: am Mike Spoffor, joined by Wes Hodkowitz and Larry McCarron Fellas.
Speaker 1: We've gotten about three quarters of the way through this
Speaker 1: annual extravaganza here and the number one question I think
Speaker 1: from Packers fans hasn't gone away. What are the Packers
Speaker 1: going to do at wide receiver this offseason? Heading into
Speaker 1: Davante Adams at the top of the heap, and then
Speaker 1: no one really knows how it's going to sort itself
Speaker 1: out after that. The wide receiver prospects talked to the
Speaker 1: media a couple of days ago. We got a chance
Speaker 1: to be involved in some of those interviews. Any guys
Speaker 1: that that stand out to you or have you've gotten
Speaker 1: any sense maybe of what direction the Packs might go
Speaker 1: here in the off season In terms of sense, not really,
Speaker 1: We're gonna find out exactly what they think of what
Speaker 1: they have and what they could potentially add to that group.
Speaker 1: More often than not, over the last fifteen years, there
Speaker 1: has been a receiver prospect that has been added during
Speaker 1: one of those three days. But what I really find
Speaker 1: intriguing about this receiver draft class. Everybody talks about how
Speaker 1: deep it is, and it really reminds me of last
Speaker 1: year with the tight ends, where there were so many
Speaker 1: of them. There were so many that we're gonna go
Speaker 1: the first two days that you just figured the Packers
Speaker 1: filling a need there could potentially go down that road,
Speaker 1: and they ultimately did with Jay Sternberger getting drafted seventy fifth,
Speaker 1: the highest the Packers had taken that tight end in
Speaker 1: eighteen years or whatever it was. I think this receiver
Speaker 1: class is very similar in terms of they could go
Speaker 1: for one at thirty. There's probably gonna be a good
Speaker 1: one there in the second round too. Do you want
Speaker 1: to wait to the third round? Maybe find the next
Speaker 1: James Jones there as well. So when I look at
Speaker 1: this class, Larry had so many good astute observations the
Speaker 1: past few days and some of these smaller type receivers
Speaker 1: that could fit a slot. If the Packers choose to
Speaker 1: keep going with these bigger guys though, and if they
Speaker 1: want to go in the first round, maybe a guy
Speaker 1: like Tee Higgins ultimately ends up being there in the
Speaker 1: later rounds or the later first round, or or maybe
Speaker 1: a trade up to get him. I just I've been
Speaker 1: really intrigued by his size, his playmaking abilities. Six ft four,
Speaker 1: he's lean, and I just, you know, listening to him
Speaker 1: talk at the podium, how confident he is. He feels
Speaker 1: like his height and the way he utilizes that is
Speaker 1: what separates him from the pack and makes him the
Speaker 1: best receiver in this class. And for that reason, he's
Speaker 1: kind of the guy I've had my eye on all week.
Speaker 1: One thing about wide receivers, Packer history says that you
Speaker 1: don't have to take one in the first round. We're
Speaker 1: talking about Jordy, We're talking about Jennings, We're talking about
Speaker 1: Randall Cobb, We're talking about Davante Adams. You do not
Speaker 1: have to go up and get one in round one.
Speaker 1: So should the Packers not address the wide receiver position
Speaker 1: in the first day of the draft. Don't worry about it,
Speaker 1: and all could still be on the way. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And the mix that you mentioned, how deep everyone is
Speaker 1: talking about this wide receiver classes. The mix of guys
Speaker 1: is interesting. You mentioned obviously te Higgins, his size. There
Speaker 1: are these other guys kJ Hamler from Penn State, Jalen
Speaker 1: Reagor from TCU. They're the smaller guys, the sub six
Speaker 1: footers that Larry talked about earlier. They could be the
Speaker 1: slot guys, although they don't like to be pegged as
Speaker 1: slot guys. They're like, hey, you can line me up anywhere,
Speaker 1: but then you also have I don't like to call
Speaker 1: them tweeners because that becomes, you know, kind of a
Speaker 1: negative connotation. But a guy like Levisca Channault from Colorado,
Speaker 1: I hope I'm saying that correctly, and uh and Brandon
Speaker 1: Au from Arizona State. These guys are right around six feet,
Speaker 1: but they're two hundred and ten two hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: maybe two twenty plus pounds. So those guys maybe can
Speaker 1: line up anywhere. They they become the versatile pieces like
Speaker 1: a Davante Adams is. So I think they're gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of options out there for the Packers, as
Speaker 1: you said, maybe in the first round, maybe in the
Speaker 1: second round or the third round where they got a
Speaker 1: guy like Jay Sternberger that they're developing for down the road.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you pointed that out because we're seeing
Speaker 1: this more and more. If you're a slot guy, a
Speaker 1: lot of times they're asking to do things outside. Another
Speaker 1: guy that comes to mind immediately is Bama's Henry Ruggs,
Speaker 1: the third. He's five ft eleven. I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: guy that I think kind of projects more like that
Speaker 1: Greg Jennings type that, Yeah, you can move him around,
Speaker 1: but he can live and actually produce outside if you
Speaker 1: want him to be there. I just there's so many
Speaker 1: prospects in this draft that gives so many intriguing skill
Speaker 1: sets that I feel like the Packers and in Brian
Speaker 1: Goodicos wherever they want to address this, if they addressed it,
Speaker 1: they're gonna find somebody that could potentially fit in here
Speaker 1: and contribute. He go back to two years ago. I
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate them drafting three receivers. They went that route
Speaker 1: last year. They felt content that they didn't need to.
Speaker 1: But the thing I keep going back to, and Larry's right,
Speaker 1: you don't need to do this in the first round,
Speaker 1: but it has been six years now since the last
Speaker 1: time they took Davante Adams in the second There's sometimes
Speaker 1: is a caliber of prospect that you find some traits
Speaker 1: that you find in those early rounds that aren't always
Speaker 1: there in the middle. That's why I'm intrigued to see
Speaker 1: if that potentially could be the if this could be
Speaker 1: the year where they finally dip back into the second
Speaker 1: or maybe even the third to find a guy. You know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be interesting, guys. Is how the draft falls.
Speaker 1: And you're talking about the first round. There's been projections
Speaker 1: where as many as a half a dozen wide receivers
Speaker 1: get selected in the first round, and you're wondering how teams,
Speaker 1: how the other teams are gonna play it. Are they
Speaker 1: thinking we're gonna jump in and get our guy or
Speaker 1: are we gonna hold back because it is so deep
Speaker 1: and talent at that position. Are we going to hold
Speaker 1: back or is that going to be a situation when
Speaker 1: one goes off the board, Zaff, then you're gonna get
Speaker 1: another five off the board real quick, because hey, now
Speaker 1: we gotta go get our guy. It'll be interesting because
Speaker 1: every draft has its own personality. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: And and as we get into draft night in late April,
Speaker 1: in that first round, teams don't necessarily they have their guy,
Speaker 1: but they don't know how many other teams have that
Speaker 1: same guy, And how much do you believe in that
Speaker 1: guy over somebody else? What what's the courage of your conviction,
Speaker 1: so to speak, to make the move. But you mentioned
Speaker 1: Jordy Nelson that what is that twelve years ago two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, the Packers actually traded back out of
Speaker 1: the first round, went down six spots, and then took
Speaker 1: Nelson at the top of the second round. He becomes
Speaker 1: one of the Packers all time greats. Yeah, it is
Speaker 1: funny though. I'm glad Larry mentioned that. Watching how those
Speaker 1: trends play out. I mean, it isn't quite like fantasy
Speaker 1: football where it's okay, everybody starts taking a defense, so
Speaker 1: you gotta grab one. But you do see these things happen.
Speaker 1: And I go back to last year now TJ. Hockinson.
Speaker 1: Everybody thought he was probably gonna be a top ten talent.
Speaker 1: But you and I when we were going through the
Speaker 1: interview process with these guys, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people thought, no, a fan was maybe borderline first round,
Speaker 1: maybe the end of the first round, and then look
Speaker 1: where he ended up going, because well, are you gonna
Speaker 1: be able to get that guy at number three? Those
Speaker 1: are the things that we don't know today and even
Speaker 1: maybe up until three hours before the draft, you know,
Speaker 1: in April or whatever it is, GMS aren't even gonna
Speaker 1: know it. Then Yeah, Well, if there is another question
Speaker 1: that is out there on the fans minds that hasn't
Speaker 1: gone away, it's what are the packer is going to
Speaker 1: do about the run defense? That was obviously a big
Speaker 1: letdown in the NFC Championship game against San Francisco. So
Speaker 1: earlier today, before we turned on the cameras here, we
Speaker 1: heard from defensive linemen and linebackers. They were the ones
Speaker 1: who were meeting the media. So I'll just throw this
Speaker 1: out there. Any guys that you heard from Wes that
Speaker 1: that pique your interest a little bit for any reason.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can sit there and listen to
Speaker 1: Kenneth Murray talk for four minutes and not be impressed
Speaker 1: with him and how he carries himself. He recounted a
Speaker 1: fantastic story in terms of where he comes from, Uh,
Speaker 1: some of the things that his family has gone through,
Speaker 1: and even you know as recently, I mean he recounted
Speaker 1: a story about, you know, saving this woman's life on
Speaker 1: the side of the road. I mean, like, but more
Speaker 1: than that, this is a guy that is a fantastic
Speaker 1: football player. He actually played with Curtis Bolton, had a
Speaker 1: chance to play with him a little bit a year ago,
Speaker 1: and not a bad player in his own right. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and and and Kenneth actually uh said some really nice
Speaker 1: things about Bowl and what potentially he could be once
Speaker 1: he gets past this knee injury with the pack. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And there's just something about Oklahoma linebackers that I've always
Speaker 1: just kind of taken a liking to, a grittiness, a toughness,
Speaker 1: and athleticism that they just seemed to find in that
Speaker 1: conference and really brings the best out of him. In Murray,
Speaker 1: I think when you look at this year's draft class,
Speaker 1: guys that could be potential difference makers from day one.
Speaker 1: I'm no scout. No one's asking me to join the
Speaker 1: personnel department, but I just I've been I think his
Speaker 1: intangibles and what is required from that inside linebacker position
Speaker 1: in he checks a lot of boxes. I've watched both
Speaker 1: Murray and Patrick Queen from l s U on tape
Speaker 1: because at the very least it is a position of
Speaker 1: interest for the Green Bay Packers. And I didn't grind
Speaker 1: miles of it as yet, but I ground enough to see,
Speaker 1: Queen seemed to have a lot of ability athletically and
Speaker 1: he could do some nice things. However, he wasn't a
Speaker 1: constant presence, at least not in the video I saw. Certainly,
Speaker 1: by what I saw, he has a potential to be
Speaker 1: that presence. What I'm telling Murray, that kid has got
Speaker 1: some snap, crackle and pop in his game. I mean
Speaker 1: when he runs into folks, things happen. He is an
Speaker 1: impact player. He's not a contact guy. He's a collision guy,
Speaker 1: and he can get all over the field. Very impressed
Speaker 1: with that young man. Yeah. Well, and Kenneth Murray too.
Speaker 1: Just to give people a quick recap and though there's
Speaker 1: a story on packers dot com that I'm working on
Speaker 1: as far as as far as Murray's background, his parents
Speaker 1: adopted three special needs children and they've obviously had a
Speaker 1: huge impact on his life. And as West said, he
Speaker 1: happened to be kind of a witness to a car
Speaker 1: accident and end up giving a bleeding woman's CPR and
Speaker 1: and got her revived before the paramedics arrived. This was
Speaker 1: driving home from church with his girlfriend, you know, he said.
Speaker 1: Which it was on a Sunday, like right after one
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma's games. So just a lot of really really
Speaker 1: interesting pieces to his story. But you mentioned Patrick Queen
Speaker 1: from l s U and what you saw on tape,
Speaker 1: and what I liked about what I heard from Queen
Speaker 1: at the podium is that he said, Hey, there are
Speaker 1: people out there who are questioning my ability to stop
Speaker 1: the run, and he wants to He wants to prove that.
Speaker 1: He wants to prove that he can be that guy
Speaker 1: in the NFL. And you know how this is Larry.
Speaker 1: Sometimes self awareness is at least half the battle. If
Speaker 1: he knows what he's got to work and you can't
Speaker 1: walk around with you and I'm wonderful, I'm perfect, I'm
Speaker 1: the greatest thing since slice bread. When you're not, I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to address your shortcomings and trust me, almost
Speaker 1: every football players, yeah, absolutely, and and he's he's aware
Speaker 1: of that. Now up in the defensive front here, I
Speaker 1: think the Packers also going to be going to be
Speaker 1: looking at defensive It's it's a position you want to
Speaker 1: add in just about every draft at point right now
Speaker 1: where the Packers address it again, like these other positions
Speaker 1: we're talking about, first round, second round, third round, But
Speaker 1: there are a lot of there are a lot of
Speaker 1: these guys West that are, you know, six ft two,
Speaker 1: six ft three and they're three ten three twenty And
Speaker 1: we'll see what they're testing numbers are later in the week,
Speaker 1: but all indications are there's a lot of athleticism. But
Speaker 1: these guys who can line up between the tackles, you know,
Speaker 1: and stop the run and rush the passer with that
Speaker 1: kind of size, well, and that was kind of my
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from the morning session with the defensive lineman. No,
Speaker 1: I don't have exactly all these names for you in
Speaker 1: terms of that position, but the wide variety of body
Speaker 1: types that are infiltrating the NFL at this point. I
Speaker 1: look at Rob Winsor, who's actually from Fondilac played at
Speaker 1: Penn State. He's up there at six four pounds. I
Speaker 1: don't know how much body fat that kid has on him,
Speaker 1: maybe eight percent. I mean, he just looks like a
Speaker 1: complete physical specimen and then you see something. But I
Speaker 1: mean just it's those type of players that are becoming
Speaker 1: more prevalent, especially in those three tech positions. Even if
Speaker 1: he isn't your traditional three pounder, um, you know, some
Speaker 1: of these guys go at six to three pounds but
Speaker 1: they find the leverage that they can, you know, be
Speaker 1: able to really make an impact inside, and you still
Speaker 1: have you're tried in true three pounders that are just
Speaker 1: gonna be able to take on your double teams, phil
Speaker 1: gaps and be productive against the run. The Packers, I
Speaker 1: you know, you go back. I think it's twenty three
Speaker 1: consecutive years they've drafted a defensive lineman. Now it's almost
Speaker 1: you have ten picks right now. You can almost bet
Speaker 1: on the fact that you're probably gonna get another one.
Speaker 1: So seeing what they're looking for, because there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of outside sentiment right now that you know, they
Speaker 1: need a Howard Green, they need a Ryan pick it back,
Speaker 1: they need a guy that can sit down there and
Speaker 1: anchor the way they did ten years ago. When teams
Speaker 1: are running as much as they were. Do you go
Speaker 1: that route or do you try to find another another
Speaker 1: Kenny Clark type body that can do at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I was going to say, is the Packers
Speaker 1: found Kenny Clark at six in the draft a few
Speaker 1: years ago. And for all the needs that the Packers
Speaker 1: have and everything that we're talking about, if there's another
Speaker 1: Kenny Clark, who's there at thirty and you don't have
Speaker 1: to make a trade or give up any other picks
Speaker 1: to get that guy. I think that's the kind of
Speaker 1: guy that's going to be difficult to pass on for
Speaker 1: this defense. Oh absolutely. And something as far as what
Speaker 1: the Packers have coming back up front, a couple of
Speaker 1: thoughts Dean Lowry who are signed to an extension and
Speaker 1: so forth, and tighter Lancaster the Northwestern tandem. How many
Speaker 1: teams have two defensive linement from Northwestern. It's gotta be
Speaker 1: gott to be a new intercollegiate record. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: think those guys are both coming off seasons where they
Speaker 1: had their moments, but they weren't as consistent as they
Speaker 1: have been previously. Now there is tape, it's out there
Speaker 1: that they can play to a certain standard, which they've
Speaker 1: done in the past. And I think both guys that
Speaker 1: they were perfectly honest, wou'd hey, I can play a
Speaker 1: little better on a consistent basis. Both of them had
Speaker 1: their moments. I could dig up the tape and show
Speaker 1: you and say, hey, this is great stuff, as good
Speaker 1: as it gets, but they weren't as consistent as you
Speaker 1: would hope for, or they would hope for so that's
Speaker 1: a possible area of improvement for the Green Bay Packers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and let's be honest to Mike. I mean, how often
Speaker 1: is it that a rookie defensive lineman comes in and
Speaker 1: just lights the world on fire. Kenny Clark, it took
Speaker 1: all of his rookie year to start finding his groove.
Speaker 1: It's improvement that's going to have to come from within.
Speaker 1: It's Lowry after getting the extension. It's Lancaster after becoming
Speaker 1: a player montrevious. Adams is still in this conversation. Two
Speaker 1: years ago, looked like he was on the come up.
Speaker 1: Last year it was a little bit more tougher footing
Speaker 1: for him to get going. And then I thought, really
Speaker 1: Kingsley Kiki came on late last season as well. The
Speaker 1: guy played nine defensive snaps and had thirteen tackles. I mean,
Speaker 1: getting him more opportunities in that rotation pretty big. The
Speaker 1: thing about Ki Ki, he has got something that is
Speaker 1: really difficult to coach up and teach. He has an
Speaker 1: for getting on the edge and being slippery. It's hard
Speaker 1: as much holding and stuff that goes on, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get ahold of guys like Kames Lee kick he's
Speaker 1: just got that knack and it's hard to describe, but
Speaker 1: he slips people. And the thing about it is, ideally
Speaker 1: you're just not taking up space and filling your gap.
Speaker 1: You're doing a little more like you're doing your responsibility
Speaker 1: and then having the wherewithal and the athletic ability to
Speaker 1: go make a play. That's when you start playing real
Speaker 1: good defensive lying and those are the type of things
Speaker 1: the packers are looking for. Kiki and the other guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you talk about guys whose arrows are pointing up,
Speaker 1: so to speak, I'll just throw a couple of names
Speaker 1: out there, excuse me. Ross Blacklock from TCU. This is
Speaker 1: a guy who actually lost the two thousand eighteen season
Speaker 1: two a torn achilles. He worked out and got himself
Speaker 1: back through rehab in seven months from a torn achilles,
Speaker 1: which is an injury that can take guys up to
Speaker 1: a year to come back from. He's got a really
Speaker 1: good story too as far as the backs or another one,
Speaker 1: I'll mention Marlon Davidson from Auburn, another big defensive lineman.
Speaker 1: This is a guy he calls himself country Strong. He
Speaker 1: uhum made a promise to his mother, his late mother,
Speaker 1: to stay in school, finished school before he becomes an
Speaker 1: NFL player, wants to take care of his family financially,
Speaker 1: and all of that. He said he didn't really work
Speaker 1: out his first three years at Auburn. His final year
Speaker 1: at Auburn, his bench press went from two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty five pounds to three hundred and ninety five pounds
Speaker 1: in one year. Because you know, some of these guys
Speaker 1: have that ability to just keep getting better. Those are
Speaker 1: the kinds of guys that that that are definitely going
Speaker 1: to catch attention of of scouts and personnel people. And
Speaker 1: I love Marlon. Listen to him talk a little bit
Speaker 1: at the podium. There are certain guys that go up
Speaker 1: there and you can see the hunger in their belly,
Speaker 1: the fire in their belly that they want not only
Speaker 1: to be a good football player, but there's people back
Speaker 1: home that are counting on them, that want them to
Speaker 1: succeed and need them to succeed. And I really got
Speaker 1: that flavor from him, in addition to having a really
Speaker 1: neat personality that seems like, you know, in based on
Speaker 1: everything I've read, you know, a good fit for a
Speaker 1: lot of locker rooms. One other thing to keep in
Speaker 1: mind as we're discussing the Packers getting better up front.
Speaker 1: This is a very good year for interior defensive players
Speaker 1: as far as free agency goers, and that class, that
Speaker 1: group of soon to be free agents is led by
Speaker 1: Chris Jones from Kransas City. There's no way they're letting
Speaker 1: that dude go, not a chance. But it is outside
Speaker 1: of him, it's still a pretty good group. So who
Speaker 1: knows how things will fall as this offseason transpire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of transactions taking place
Speaker 1: in the NFL between the middle of March and then
Speaker 1: late April when the Draft rolls around. But with that,
Speaker 1: we're going to call it a wrap on this edition
Speaker 1: of Packers Unscripted and a wrap for now from the
Speaker 1: NFL Scouting Combine. Thanks for watching, everybody, for Larry and Wes,
Speaker 1: I am Mike. We will see you next time.