WEBVTT - El Salvador’s Bitcoin Gamble, One Year Later

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heart podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News. It's Tuesday, sept It's been one year since

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<v Speaker 1>El Salvador adopted bitcoin as legal tender. Last September, the

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<v Speaker 1>Central American nation made headlines for forging its own path

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<v Speaker 1>as the first in the world to make the cryptocurrency

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<v Speaker 1>an official part of its economy. According to tweets and

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<v Speaker 1>statements from President Nai bo Kelly, the government has brought

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<v Speaker 1>more than two thousand bitcoins so far. So what's the problem, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>many of those purchases were at or near market highs.

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<v Speaker 1>It was September twenty one, after all. Those price declines

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<v Speaker 1>since mean that at least on people, El Salvador has

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<v Speaker 1>lost more than half the value of its purchases so far,

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<v Speaker 1>and surveys of both consumers and businesses show that most

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<v Speaker 1>people in the country just aren't using bitcoin. Nonetheless, President

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<v Speaker 1>Bokeley and government officials are adamant that the nation's strategy

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<v Speaker 1>has expanded financial services to a larger segment of the

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<v Speaker 1>population and encourage tourism. So what's the real story of bitcoin?

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<v Speaker 1>In El Salvador. I'm joined now by Bloomberg reporter Mike

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<v Speaker 1>McDonald for more. Are those birds they are? So? I have? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I have. There's like a flack of parakeets that live

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<v Speaker 1>outside my apartment and they're they're like, yeah, tough, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the most interesting countries in Central America, if

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<v Speaker 1>you're a person who is even passingly interested in bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>has got to be El Salvador. What's been going on

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<v Speaker 1>in El Salvador over the past twelve months. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>a year ago El Salvador adopted bitcoin as legal tender

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<v Speaker 1>alongside the dollar. El Salvador as a dollarized economy it

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<v Speaker 1>has been for twenty years, and last year they announced

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<v Speaker 1>and they started accepting bitcoin as official currency. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>a currency that you can use just like you would

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<v Speaker 1>a dollar, just like you would any other currency to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for goods and services and buy goods and services

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<v Speaker 1>in the country. So businesses, by law are required to

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<v Speaker 1>accept it unless technologically unable to. But it became legal

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<v Speaker 1>tender in Al Salvador about a year ago. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>when the country adopted it, It was September one and

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<v Speaker 1>else and bitcoin was really near record highs. It was

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<v Speaker 1>around six that was trading around sixty thousand dollars per

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<v Speaker 1>token at that time, so there was this sort of

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<v Speaker 1>euphoria across the country. Everybody was downloading the government's bitcoin wallet,

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<v Speaker 1>which the government launched a year ago. They were getting

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<v Speaker 1>into bitcoin, They were trading bitcoin on their phones. The

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<v Speaker 1>government wallet really makes it easy to switch between dollars

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<v Speaker 1>and bitcoins. So you saw all these new sort of

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<v Speaker 1>street day traders in El Salvador that we're that we're

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<v Speaker 1>trading between bitcoin and the US dollar on their phone.

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<v Speaker 1>They were rushing to the a t m s to

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<v Speaker 1>convert their bitcoins two dollars and take out cash at

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<v Speaker 1>these bitcoin a t m s around the country. At

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning, there was sort of this euphoria about bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>in the country and everybody was really excited to see

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<v Speaker 1>what would happen. I mean, at the time, it was

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<v Speaker 1>really the biggest test for bitcoin as a currency in

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<v Speaker 1>the world. This was the first country to ever do this,

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<v Speaker 1>so everybody was really watching to see how the rollout

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<v Speaker 1>went and really how this digital token could be used

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<v Speaker 1>as as an official currency. What was the argument that

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<v Speaker 1>El Salvador was making for why they were doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>There were a couple. Since it's dollarized economy, they don't

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<v Speaker 1>really control their own currency. They really rely on the

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<v Speaker 1>FED for monetary policy. I mean, they really don't have

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<v Speaker 1>any sort of central banking control of their own currency.

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<v Speaker 1>One argue it was they shifted to bitcoins that they

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<v Speaker 1>could shift away from relying on the Federal Reserve and

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<v Speaker 1>US dollar monetary policy. Another argument was, you know, Al

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<v Speaker 1>Salvador is a country that has that receives a large

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<v Speaker 1>amount of remittances every year. There are a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>All Salvadorians in the United States that work and live

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<v Speaker 1>and send back tons of money every year. It's something

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<v Speaker 1>like twenty percent of GDP in El Salvador. And they

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<v Speaker 1>usually use Western Union or MoneyGram or one of these

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<v Speaker 1>traditional money transfer services to send those remittances back to

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<v Speaker 1>All Salvador. And those services charge fees for sending those remittances.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, depending on what sort of service you choose,

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<v Speaker 1>the money can take three, maybe five business days to

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<v Speaker 1>get there. So one argument was, you know, by adopting bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>this would make it easier for Salvadorians living in Los

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<v Speaker 1>Angeles or Texas or New York or wherever. It would

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<v Speaker 1>make it cheaper and faster to sort of send the

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<v Speaker 1>money from one person's wallet in in the United States

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<v Speaker 1>to another person's wallet in Al Salvador. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the other main arguments was that this would

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<v Speaker 1>save time and money on remittances, which is really a

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<v Speaker 1>pillar for the economy and its hold. And let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about reminstances specifically, because you know, twenty of GDP is

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<v Speaker 1>not a small amount of money going back. Having used

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<v Speaker 1>services like money Ground Western Union to send money to

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<v Speaker 1>the Caribbean where I'm from, It's not only that it

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<v Speaker 1>can be slow, it can also be really expensive. And

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<v Speaker 1>so if I remember correctly, like one of the arguments was, well,

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<v Speaker 1>this isn't only gonna be faster, it's also going to

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<v Speaker 1>be cheaper and more efficient. The thing is bitcoin volatility

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<v Speaker 1>is you know feature bug. However you think about it,

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<v Speaker 1>there can be wild swings in the currency. How was

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<v Speaker 1>the plan to sort of manage the fact that by

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<v Speaker 1>the time you start the transaction, by the time that

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<v Speaker 1>transaction gets the the person, the price might have changed

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<v Speaker 1>by fifteen You know, most of the souf it orders

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<v Speaker 1>that are living in work in the United States are

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<v Speaker 1>probably not starting off with bitcoin. They probably have dollars

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<v Speaker 1>that they've made at their jobs in the US, and

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<v Speaker 1>they have to go to an next change and buy

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<v Speaker 1>the bitcoin and then get a wallet and then transfer

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<v Speaker 1>the money to the wallet and then transfer it to

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<v Speaker 1>their family members in El Salvador. And you know, from

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<v Speaker 1>what we've seen over the past twelve months, people really

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<v Speaker 1>aren't spending bitcoin in Al Salvador, so then their family

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<v Speaker 1>member or their friend in Al Salvador would probably convert

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<v Speaker 1>it to the US dollars, and there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>price fluctuation that can happen in that time frame. There

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<v Speaker 1>are also a lot of fees associated with that whole

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<v Speaker 1>long process, so it's not even always that much cheaper.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the you know, the fees for bitcoin kind

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<v Speaker 1>of vary for sending it, based on you know, usage

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<v Speaker 1>and a bunch of other factors, so you know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>it is cheaper, sometimes it's not. But you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't really translated into a large amount of remittances being

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<v Speaker 1>sent via bitcoin either. The Central Bank Inel Salvador said

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of months ago that it's only about two

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<v Speaker 1>percent a little less than two percent of remittances that

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<v Speaker 1>have come via digital wallets, so most people still are

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<v Speaker 1>using the traditional services like money Graham and Western Union,

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<v Speaker 1>and these are companies too. They have also come up

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<v Speaker 1>with their own digital wallets, so to speak, to try

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<v Speaker 1>and compete with you know, bitcoin and stable coins and

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<v Speaker 1>some of these other cryptocurrencies. You know, they're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>make it cheaper and faster with their own versions of

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<v Speaker 1>digital wallets to make it easier for customers on both ends. So,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we haven't really seen a sort of mass

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<v Speaker 1>movement from traditional money services to bitcoin for transferring remittances

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<v Speaker 1>from the U S t S. Salador. You've reported over

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<v Speaker 1>the course of the past twelve months on the fact that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Bokeley is historically popular leader in the country.

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<v Speaker 1>He controls not just sentiment, but like functionally has a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of influence and exerts a lot of control over

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<v Speaker 1>other arms of government and of course the central bank. However,

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<v Speaker 1>the bitcoin thing doesn't pull well for him, right Like

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<v Speaker 1>kind of around the time that this was rolling out,

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<v Speaker 1>there were even protests, some of them turned a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit violent. What explains the disconnect between this history really

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<v Speaker 1>popular leader on this historically unpopular policy. Yeah, it's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's popular for a lot of reasons, and

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin is is kind of the one thorn in his side.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the one thing that the opposition parties

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<v Speaker 1>in Al Salvador have really latched onto because it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of the one thing that people are really upset about

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<v Speaker 1>him with. You know, he's popular. He's cracked out on

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<v Speaker 1>gangs recently, He's built a couple of new hospitals, he's

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<v Speaker 1>improved education. He has some of these money transfer services

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<v Speaker 1>from the government to the you know, very the poorest

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<v Speaker 1>households in Al Salvador. So so those are some of

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<v Speaker 1>the reasons why he's he's so popular with bitcoin. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a big change, really fast. He announced this

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<v Speaker 1>in June of one, with the law taking effect in

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<v Speaker 1>September one. It was really only three months. It's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>shifting from the US dollar, you know, sort of a physical,

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<v Speaker 1>hard feat currency to a digital dollar. In a country

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<v Speaker 1>where a lot of people outside the capital city don't

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<v Speaker 1>have smartphones or aren't familiar with the technology, or don't

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<v Speaker 1>really understand cryptocurrencies. A lot of homes may not even

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<v Speaker 1>have access to internet. A lot of businesses outside the

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<v Speaker 1>capital city don't have access to internet, so so making

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<v Speaker 1>transactions in a digital currency is scary. The very fast

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<v Speaker 1>pace which this happened too, I think spooked a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people. I think once it rolled out. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>at the very beginning, the price of bitcoin was was

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<v Speaker 1>very high. It was in the fifty thousand range in

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<v Speaker 1>September one, and then it quickly went up to sixty thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was about sixty thousand for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>And for the first couple of months, there was this

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<v Speaker 1>excitement and people thought, oh, well, my money is just

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<v Speaker 1>always going to go up. And then ever since then

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<v Speaker 1>it's gone down. I mean, now you know we're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about bitcoin has been at twenty thousand for for months now,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I think, you know, a lot of that

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<v Speaker 1>early excitement really fizzled out. People who started using bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>last year at fifty thousand and went up to sixty thousand,

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<v Speaker 1>and now it's down to twenty thousand. I think they,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they opened their achieval app, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>government's digital wallet, and look at their money and like, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm losing money on this. This is really silly. The

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<v Speaker 1>volatility has really scared people away. If there is sort

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<v Speaker 1>of one saving grace, you know, not a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people on a Salvador. It's not like people poured their

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<v Speaker 1>life savings into bitcoin because there wasn't this mass adoption.

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<v Speaker 1>It really saved the economy as a whole from from

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<v Speaker 1>this crypto winter and this bear market that we're in,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's also sort of dampened sentiment for using it

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<v Speaker 1>as an actual currency because of the volatility. Well to

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<v Speaker 1>your points about the absence of enthusiasm, there's a brilliant

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<v Speaker 1>quote that you have in your story from Laura Android,

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<v Speaker 1>who's the director of you know, one of the universities

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<v Speaker 1>there and who did a poll that's sort to find

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<v Speaker 1>out if people are actually using bitcoin, and the quotes is,

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<v Speaker 1>if you go to any markets in El Salvador, you're

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<v Speaker 1>more likely to receive an insult than be able to

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<v Speaker 1>purchase something in bitcoin, which you know feels feels pretty

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<v Speaker 1>telling of of the way things are. There is one

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<v Speaker 1>area that by any metric, though, does look like there's

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<v Speaker 1>been some success, and that's sort of foreign investment and tourism.

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<v Speaker 1>But what are some of the specifics that you've seen

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<v Speaker 1>that are actually making a difference in the country. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there have been a lot of bitcoiners that have visited

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<v Speaker 1>the country over the past year, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>curiosity to see how this works. El Salvador is on

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<v Speaker 1>pace this year to actually surpass pre pandemic levels of

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<v Speaker 1>tourist visits. I think they might have already done it

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<v Speaker 1>already and we're only in September now. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of curiosity. There's been a couple bitcoin events that

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<v Speaker 1>have been held in El Salvador over the past year.

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<v Speaker 1>The Latin America Bitcoin Conference was one. They've had a

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<v Speaker 1>couple other blockchain events as well. They're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>another one this November. Bitcoin Beach has attracted a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people. There's there's Bitcoin Beach is sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>pilot program where this all started. You know. There there

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<v Speaker 1>have been several companies to some and and some pretty

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<v Speaker 1>prominent crypto companies like bitfin x, which is a crypto exchange,

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<v Speaker 1>which is preparing to open up an office there. I

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<v Speaker 1>spoke with some other crypto companies, a couple of different exchanges,

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<v Speaker 1>and a couple of different banking and lending crypto platforms,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've seen a large uptick of users in El

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<v Speaker 1>Salvadore over the past year, so for them, been good

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<v Speaker 1>for business. So you know, there is this sort of

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<v Speaker 1>curiosity to see how things are going in Al Salvador.

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<v Speaker 1>And and there are members of the crypto community from

0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.440
<v Speaker 1>from legitimate large crypto companies that are are setting up

0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.040
<v Speaker 1>shop in Al Salvador. And and there is this bet

0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.960
<v Speaker 1>on the part of the government where they're kind of like, well,

0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.599
<v Speaker 1>let's see if we can attract this industry here and

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 1>be sort of a regional hub for this highly technological

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.680
<v Speaker 1>industry for Latin America. So that's so there is there's

0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about a little bit of that, and

0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you are seeing evidence of it. I mean, you can't

0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.560
<v Speaker 1>see it in the numbers. Up next, more from Broomberg

0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Reports and Mike McDonald on El Salvador's economic future as

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:51.000
<v Speaker 1>an ardent supporter of crypto. So we've got a let's say,

0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 1>mostly indifferent population, we've got a mostly enthusiastic kind of

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.719
<v Speaker 1>foreign investor in tourist space. There is one constituency that

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 1>I would describe as actively hostile to El Salvador's bitcoin experiments,

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 1>and that's like the multinational organizations, the I m F,

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 1>the World banks. It's also like the rating agencies. What's

0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.960
<v Speaker 1>been going on in that front before El Salvador announced

0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 1>that they were going to adopt bitcoin as legal tender.

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 1>They were negotiating a program with the International Monetary Fund.

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.480
<v Speaker 1>The government has really high debt levels and they have

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 1>a couple really big bond payments coming up that they're

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 1>going to have to pay to bond holders. So they

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 1>were negotiating this one point three billion dollar program with

0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:36.200
<v Speaker 1>the International Monetary Fund essentially alone, and then in exchange

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 1>for that, they would adopt policies, you know, more fiscally

0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.440
<v Speaker 1>responsible policies to sort of narrow their fiscal deficit and

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.199
<v Speaker 1>bring debt levels down. But the i m F has

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 1>really pushed back against this experiment, and we haven't seen

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.080
<v Speaker 1>that program actually happen yet. I mean, they've been negotiating

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.520
<v Speaker 1>this now for maybe two years, and this experiment really

0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.480
<v Speaker 1>has cost the country a program at one point three

0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:58.840
<v Speaker 1>billion dollar program with the International Monetary Fund. You know,

0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.079
<v Speaker 1>the World Bank has held off on some lending because

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.040
<v Speaker 1>of this. I think they even rejected a request from

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.599
<v Speaker 1>a sob it or to help with the rollout initially.

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I think they've sort of backed off on that, and

0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.000
<v Speaker 1>I think they did provide some assistance eventually, but there

0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.319
<v Speaker 1>has been this pushback from the I m F. A

0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.559
<v Speaker 1>little bit from the World Bank and from the from

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 1>bondholders as well. I mean, you've you've seen Moodies published

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 1>several pieces warning of the dangers of the volatility of bitcoin.

0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>The government has been buying bitcoin and they've lost a

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of money so far on those purchases. I think

0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.760
<v Speaker 1>they have unrealized losses of about sixty million dollars on

0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 1>roughly a hundred million dollars in bitcoin purchases. So it

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 1>has hurt public finances and that's something that the International

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and these rating diseases, especially Moodies,

0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>have really brought to light. Given this what you could

0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>sort of fairly describe as a mixed environment for this,

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:59.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, great experiments. What's next for buc He has

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>shifted gears. Ever since March there was a there was

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 1>a series of killings in March, gang related killings, you know,

0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Saltore in March, and ever since then, the government's focus

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 1>has been on finding gangsters, resting them and putting him

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.359
<v Speaker 1>in jail. I think there rest like forty thousand gangsters

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 1>since March, or alleged gangsters, I should say, because there's

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>some pushback as to whether or not some of these

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 1>people are innocent or not. You know, the laser eyes

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.560
<v Speaker 1>are gone from his Twitter profile. I think he took

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>them down a month or two ago, So there has

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 1>been a bit of a shift in focus in terms

0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.880
<v Speaker 1>of what the government is focusing on. He still is

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>meeting with with representatives from the cryptocurrency community. He met

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 1>with the CEO of Bank to the Future, which is

0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 1>a cryptocurrency company, a couple of weeks ago. You know,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>the CEO of Finance was there, I want to say,

0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 1>in May, June or some sometime in the past few months.

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 1>So he is sort of keeping this up, this interest

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 1>in the cryptocurrency community. But you know, I think the

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>core focus of the government has has really shifted that.

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, there are plans still to issue a blockchain bond,

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>which would be like a bitcoin back bond, that's been delayed.

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:03.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, they had initially announced that they were going

0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.080
<v Speaker 1>to issue it in March, were now in September, and

0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:07.960
<v Speaker 1>there's talk that maybe they'll do it at the end

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 1>of the year. But you know, this is a government

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 1>that that moves their deadlines quite frequently, so you know,

0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.360
<v Speaker 1>it may happen by the end of the year. It

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 1>may not. They still haven't presented a digital securities law,

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>which is the legislation they need to really underpin this,

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 1>this blockchain bond issuance. Mike, as a closing question, you know,

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 1>you're one of the people that has actually you've gone

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 1>to elslvdoor a bunch of different times. You have tried

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:35.240
<v Speaker 1>to navigate the country just by using bitcoin. What about

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 1>that system would have to get better for it to

0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.520
<v Speaker 1>really be practical rather than gimmicky. You know, I think

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>speed is a big one. When you land there, it's

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 1>hard to find places that will actually accept it. You know,

0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 1>it's a minority of businesses that will accept bitcoin. So

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 1>finding a place that will actually accept your bitcoin in

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>exchange for services or goods or whatever is is a

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.080
<v Speaker 1>bit of a challenge. There are some that will that

0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 1>will accept it, and I found that, you know, at

0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:02.840
<v Speaker 1>those places that do accept that, there's a lot of

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.280
<v Speaker 1>bugs in the system that transactions from my wallet to

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.640
<v Speaker 1>their wallet aren't always smooth. You know, they get blocked,

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 1>or sometimes there's no internet service and you're sort of

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 1>standing there waiting for internet service to come back. I

0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.600
<v Speaker 1>had a transaction at one of my hotels that took

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.240
<v Speaker 1>I think overnight to process. I paid for my room.

0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 1>It was like, I don't know, Wednesday or something like that,

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:25.680
<v Speaker 1>and then I had to come back like the following

0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.480
<v Speaker 1>Thursday evening to see if the payment actually went through,

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 1>And so we were all sort of like waiting to see,

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, with this work, would it not work? There

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 1>are a lot of problems like that where it's just

0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>it's slow. I mean it's it's slow and it's clunky,

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.639
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's still not faster than at least not

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>for the consumer anyway than me just whipping out of

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>credit card and swiping it and going about my way. Well,

0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.120
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for sharing your perspective, Mike, and

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I always appreciate you being on the show. Yeah, thank you, Stacy,

0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it. You can find more of Mike McDonald's reporting

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.719
<v Speaker 1>on the Bloomberg Terminal on Bloomberg dot com and on Twitter.

0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.920
<v Speaker 1>He's at m D McDonald That's m D M C

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 1>D O N A L D. On the next episode

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 1>of Bloomberg Crypto, it's Merge Week, and my colleagues David

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>pan Olga Karif, and Dave Litta hosted a Twitter spaces

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.800
<v Speaker 1>dedicated to the coming changes to the Etherium blockchain. You'll

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 1>hear highlights from their conversation. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 1>dearly podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 1>shows from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Send us

0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.439
<v Speaker 1>your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto

0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.640
<v Speaker 1>at bloomberg got net or find us on Twitter. We're

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 1>at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina.

0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon Burriro.

0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Associate producer is Ty Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer.

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Maria Shmal. We'll

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:07.680
<v Speaker 1>be back tomorrow