1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

3
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, CarPlay and

4
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,960
Speaker 2: then roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on

5
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 2: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

6
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 2: on YouTube.

7
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 3: To the news of the day, including of course, the

8
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 3: late Friday announcement that Scott Bessett will be if Donald

9
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,320
Speaker 3: Trump gets his way, the next Treasury of the Secretary

10
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,480
Speaker 3: Secretary of the Treasury. It is Monday, after all, of course,

11
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,239
Speaker 3: keeping in mind that if Besson is to be the

12
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,240
Speaker 3: next Treasury Secretary, he does still need to win Senate confirmation.

13
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 3: But he has had a pretty clear narrative of the

14
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 3: agenda he would like to pursue. This kind of three

15
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,159
Speaker 3: three three policy. He says, reduce debt to three percent

16
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 3: from the current six percent, make GDP growth go up

17
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 3: to three percent, and pump three million more barrels a

18
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 3: day of crewe in the United States. He also has

19
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 3: floated the idea of a shadow fed chair and had

20
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,160
Speaker 3: this to say to Joe Matthew and myself last month

21
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 3: when he joined us about the influence Donald Trump might

22
00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 3: want to have on FED policy.

23
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,600
Speaker 1: He has a deep understanding of financial markets as opposed

24
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,280
Speaker 1: to most politicians, so he wants to be involved in

25
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 1: the conversation. He has very well formed opinions. He has

26
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,400
Speaker 1: a lot of private sector friends, so he just wants

27
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 1: to be a voice.

28
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 3: We want to add another voice to our program here

29
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 3: on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. In

30
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,040
Speaker 3: turns of the ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee,

31
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 3: the Democratic Congresswoman from California, Maxine Waters, is joining me now. Congresswoman,

32
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 3: thanks so much for being here. I would love first

33
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 3: just your reaction to the nomination of Scott Besson. Will

34
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,560
Speaker 3: he be an adequate steward of the US economy.

35
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 4: Let me just say this, as the world has been

36
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 4: watching President Trump's appointees, it is not about competence.

37
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:06,919
Speaker 5: It is not about the.

38
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 4: Ability to be an advocate for the people and protect

39
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 4: investors and do all that needs to be done to

40
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:21,359
Speaker 4: ensure that, you know, the people of this country that

41
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 4: the Americans have someone looking out for their best tenters.

42
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 4: He has made his appointments based on loyalty. Loyalty and

43
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,920
Speaker 4: that means they will do whatever he wants. And so

44
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 4: you know, I consider the new public policy will be

45
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,079
Speaker 4: whatever Trump wants by his appointees who have been chosen

46
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 4: because of their loyalty. So I can I get into

47
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,080
Speaker 4: whether or not this appointee, as you know, the Treasury

48
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,919
Speaker 4: is different from anybody else. But I expect right now

49
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 4: that we're going to be up against appointees and every

50
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 4: level of govern that are loyal to Trump, and they're

51
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 4: going to take this country in a whole new direction,

52
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 4: as identified in Project twenty twenty five.

53
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: So when it comes to Scott Beston specifically Congressoman, do

54
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 3: you think the market is perhaps misplaced in its notion

55
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 3: that he actually could be something of a balancing force

56
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 3: for the president, a kind of steady hand, if you will,

57
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,920
Speaker 3: when it comes to the extent of tariffs that should

58
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,240
Speaker 3: be pursued, for example. You don't believe that to be true.

59
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 5: No, I do not believe it to be true.

60
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 4: Again, and let me reiterate, these appointments are based on

61
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,800
Speaker 4: whether they're going to do what Trump wants them to do.

62
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 4: It is not based on any evidence that they can

63
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 4: be independent, that they in fact will be looking out

64
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 4: for the best censures of the people.

65
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,400
Speaker 5: And so I'm prepared.

66
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 4: I'm prepared for whatever Trump wants them to do, and

67
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 4: I'm prepared to fight that. I'm prepared to be able

68
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 4: to help organize that committee the Democratic side to educate

69
00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 4: the public about what they're doing and what's going on.

70
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to back up and say we

71
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 4: can't get anything done. We're going to continue to try

72
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,239
Speaker 4: and put before the American people the kind of public

73
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 4: policy that they expect appointees and elected officials to do.

74
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 5: On behalf of the people.

75
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,119
Speaker 4: And then we want to see if we cannot only

76
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 4: educate and inform, but whether or not the American people

77
00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 4: are going to understand that they now have a president

78
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 4: of the United States of America who has no respect

79
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 4: for the Constitution, does not care what president is on

80
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 4: any subject, and that he's going to do what he

81
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 4: wants to do. And so I'm looking for him to

82
00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 4: reveal himself as he has identified himself.

83
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 3: Well, Congresswoman, as you look ahead to the work you'd

84
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 3: like to continue doing as a ranking member of House

85
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 3: Financial Services, you're going to be working with another Republican

86
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,400
Speaker 3: atop that committee. Is there's jockeying now for the chairmanship.

87
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,359
Speaker 3: A number of candidates, of course, who are vying, is

88
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 3: there someone you'd most like to work with that you

89
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,480
Speaker 3: think the most productive bipartisan legislative work out of the

90
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,160
Speaker 3: committee could happen under.

91
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,920
Speaker 4: That's a possibility, But if I identify them right now

92
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 4: to you for the public, this probably would lessen their

93
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 4: opportunity of getting chosen. So yes, I hope there could

94
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 4: be someone that follows that description, but I can't tell

95
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 4: you whom at this point.

96
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 3: So just one of the candidates, in my understanding, you

97
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,839
Speaker 3: think you could work with on a bipartisan basis of

98
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 3: the three or four that have been floated.

99
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,400
Speaker 4: Well, to tell you the truth, I could work with

100
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 4: members from the opposite side of the owl pretty much

101
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 4: in the way that I've worked with McHenry and others.

102
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 4: But we've got to see who's willing to step up

103
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 4: to the plate and do what is necessary to protect

104
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 4: our investors, do what's necessary to hold on to the

105
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,039
Speaker 4: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that's protecting our consumers. Any of

106
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 4: those who can do that, I can certainly work with them.

107
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,359
Speaker 3: Well, we have seen some bipartisan work coming out of

108
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,279
Speaker 3: the MIDI in this committee in one hundred and eighteenth Congress,

109
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 3: including bill that advanced out of the Committee and ultimately

110
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 3: passed on the House floor of the FIT twenty one Act,

111
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 3: the Market Structure, Crypto Legislation and Congressman, and I wonder

112
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,479
Speaker 3: what you think the future is of those kinds of

113
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,719
Speaker 3: legislative initiatives now that Republicans won't just have control of

114
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,680
Speaker 3: your body, but the Senate as well.

115
00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,279
Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you, I've worked very closely with

116
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 4: mce henry where we've tried to get stable going. Our

117
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 4: efforts have been about guardrails. We're not opposed to legitimate

118
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 4: legislation that appears to be in the best interest of

119
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 4: the people of this country. And there may be some

120
00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 4: crypto that would like to have guard rails. If there

121
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 4: are guardrails that we can agree to working with all

122
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 4: of the entities that are interested in and a part

123
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 4: of developing crypto if we're ever going to get there,

124
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 4: and that means the Treasury, that means the Federal Reserve,

125
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 4: that means the sec that means all of these agencies

126
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,800
Speaker 4: have to come together with the President on crypto in

127
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 4: order to have something that will have guardrails and will

128
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 4: not just be determined by the fact that crypto companies

129
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 4: are trying to invade all of our financial services members

130
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 4: with large contributions, etc.

131
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 5: Etc.

132
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 4: We know what's going on, and we think now they're

133
00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 4: going to have an opportunity to learn more about what

134
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 4: crypto really is and how it works in this digital

135
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 4: economy that we're involved in. So we've got a lot

136
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 4: of understanding, a lot of searching out, and a lot

137
00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 4: of educating to do. And if we can work with

138
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 4: anyone who's willing to do that and provide these guardrails,

139
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:21,720
Speaker 4: I'm ready, and.

140
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 5: I think some of my members are.

141
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 4: And I do believe that some of the members who

142
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 4: voted for the crypto legislation that you're talking about will

143
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 4: no more now about what they voted for and be

144
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,600
Speaker 4: a lot more skeptical than they were or when they

145
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,840
Speaker 4: decided that they would give it a chance, that they

146
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 4: would go ahead and vote in ways that they didn't

147
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,400
Speaker 4: quite understand. But I don't think that'll be the case anymore.

148
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 3: Well, you just mentioned their congressoman the SEC's role in this.

149
00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,080
Speaker 3: The chair, Gary Gensler, of course, has announced that he

150
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,920
Speaker 3: will be a step down on January twentieth, when this

151
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,839
Speaker 3: new president and new administration comes in. And I wonder

152
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 3: given the nominees for other regulatory agencies that we have

153
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 3: already seen coming from Donald Trump Brendan Carr, for example,

154
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 3: at the FCC. What concern you might have about the

155
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 3: kind of person who could ultimately fill the shoes that

156
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 3: Gary Gensler is stepping out of.

157
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 4: Well, you know, a Gensler was an expert in crypto.

158
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 4: He taught crypto at the university, and many of those

159
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 4: in the crypto business did not like him, did not

160
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 4: want him because he knew too much and he wanted guardrails.

161
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 4: And he was absolutely the one who I believe should

162
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 4: be in position to deal with securities as we understand them.

163
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 4: Crypto is a security, it is not a commodity, and

164
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 4: that's what the fight is all about, commodity versus security.

165
00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 4: And I don't know who can fill those shoes, but

166
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 4: we'll have to see.

167
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 3: Well, we know gangsters will be out of those shoes

168
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,120
Speaker 3: in January. A term that goes much longer, though, and

169
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 3: there's no sign that this person will be leaving in

170
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,839
Speaker 3: advance of the term being up. Is Michael Barr, the

171
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 3: Vice Chair of Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of

172
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 3: course initially put forward the Basel three end game proposal

173
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 3: with higher capital requirements for big banks, something many of

174
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,040
Speaker 3: your colleagues on the Financial Services Committee and the President

175
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 3: elect have been highly critical of. How do you expect

176
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 3: Michael Barr will fare under this new administration? Do you

177
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 3: think that Donald Trump might actually try to fire or

178
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 3: demote him?

179
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, let me just go back some

180
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,120
Speaker 5: of what you just said. I think I missed. But

181
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 5: let me tell you.

182
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 4: If you mentioned Powell oh at the Federal Reserve, he

183
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 4: cannot fire him and he's not going to leave, and

184
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,600
Speaker 4: we've already gotten him to make that a public statement,

185
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,160
Speaker 4: and so he'll be there.

186
00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 5: Now.

187
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 4: If you're talking about Ginstler and why he would be

188
00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 4: stepping down, he knows Trump does not want him. Trump

189
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,439
Speaker 4: would fire him in a hot second, and so he's

190
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 4: stepping down.

191
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 5: He will not be there.

192
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,439
Speaker 4: I don't know much about a replacement, and whether or

193
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 4: not they will come in with the same kind of

194
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 4: understanding that the securities must be DELA and that crypto

195
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 4: are securities. And so if they come in already thinking

196
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 4: that that's not the business of the sec the Securities

197
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 4: Exchange Commission, that rather it is a commodity, then we

198
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 4: have a problem.

199
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 5: And so we've got all of these issues to work out.

200
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,560
Speaker 3: A Congressman, I had asked, and I'm sorry if I

201
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 3: was hard to understand. Michael Barr, the vice chair of

202
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 3: Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of course will oversee

203
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 3: the future of capital requirements for big banks. What do

204
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,880
Speaker 3: you think his future holds in this incoming administry?

205
00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 4: Let me just tell you, we've got to continue to

206
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 4: educate our members and the public on why it is

207
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 4: so important that we have capital requirements and that we

208
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 4: have what we need to protect against, you know, the

209
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 4: kind of meltdown that we had in two thousand and eight.

210
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 4: You know, we cannot eliminate you know, the lessons that

211
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,360
Speaker 4: have been learned about capital requirements, and so we're going

212
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 4: to push very hard with all of the information, with

213
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 4: all of the history about what took place when we

214
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 4: had the meltdown in two thousand and eight, and this

215
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 4: country was practically ruined because of a lack of the

216
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 4: ability of the banks of this country to be able

217
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 4: to ensure all of our depositors and investors that they

218
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,719
Speaker 4: can be safe.

219
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 3: All right, Congressoman, thank you so much for joining us

220
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 3: here on Bloomberg TV in radio. That is, the ranking

221
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,400
Speaker 3: member of the House Financial Services Committee. Democratic Congressman Maxine Waters,

222
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 3: thank you so much.

223
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Kensis

224
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 2: live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roud

225
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 2: outro with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen

226
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 2: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

227
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,239
Speaker 2: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

228
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 3: We do have breaking news at this hour from here

229
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,720
Speaker 3: in Washington, where, of course, one of the federal cases

230
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,480
Speaker 3: against Donald Trump was bought by Special Counsel Jack Smith.

231
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 3: He at the Department of Justice is now moving to

232
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 3: formally drop that case, the twenty twenty election obstruction case,

233
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 3: and the charges that were brought against Trump. Then this

234
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,120
Speaker 3: is not a surprise. We knew this might be coming,

235
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,559
Speaker 3: and as it is longstanding DOJ policy to not prosecute

236
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 3: a sitting president, which Donald Trump is about to become

237
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 3: in just fifty six days, and when he does take office,

238
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 3: we know he has promised to make some changes at

239
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 3: the DOJ. Initially, That's why he wanted Matt Gates to

240
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 3: be the leader of it when he was nominated for

241
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,040
Speaker 3: Attorney General, only to withdraw his name from consideration last

242
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 3: week and have Pam Bondi named in his stead. But

243
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,320
Speaker 3: now that Gates is out of the picture for ag

244
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 3: there's scrutiny on some of the other controversial cabinet selections

245
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump has made, including, of course RFK Junior

246
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 3: for Health and Human Services, Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense,

247
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 3: and then there's Tulci Gabbard who was tapped to be

248
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,360
Speaker 3: the Director of National Intelligence. She could face a bit

249
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 3: of an uphill climb to get Senate confirmation, at least

250
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 3: if the words of one Republican Senator, James Langford, who

251
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 3: sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, is to be believed.

252
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,440
Speaker 3: This is what he told CNN just yesterday.

253
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,200
Speaker 6: Well, we'll have lots of questions she met with Bishiro Sad.

254
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 6: We'll want to know what the purpose was and what

255
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 6: the direction for that was. As a member of Congress,

256
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 6: will want to get it. She has to talk about

257
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 6: past comments that she's made and get them into full context.

258
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,440
Speaker 3: So let's assemble now our signature political panel for more

259
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,520
Speaker 3: on this. Rick Davis Stone Court Capital Partner and Republican Strategists,

260
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 3: alongside Democratic analyst Jeanie Schanzeno who is a senior Democracy

261
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 3: Fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency

262
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 3: and Congress. Rick, if you were on Tolsei Gabbert's team

263
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 3: trying to make sure that she ultimately gets confirmed and

264
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,960
Speaker 3: takes this job as a Director of National Intelligence, would

265
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 3: you be pretty nervous right now? What does she need

266
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 3: to do over the course of the next many weeks

267
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 3: in order to ensure she gets the requisite votes in

268
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 3: the Senate?

269
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 7: Well, I think they're probably doing this meeting directly with

270
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 7: the staves of the various committee's Armed Services Committee, Intelligence Committee,

271
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 7: those committees that really care a great deal about that

272
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 7: posting and talking to the staves and to the members

273
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 7: directly sort of airing out any issues like what Senator

274
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,560
Speaker 7: Langfort might have about her trip to Syria, what she

275
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 7: did there, what was the cause, and how did she

276
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 7: organize a meeting with Bashar al Asad, at the time

277
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 7: a global criminal for using chemicals against his own people

278
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 7: chemical warfare. So she's got some explaining to do. But

279
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 7: if she has a rational explanation for these things, then

280
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 7: what I can tell is the Senate is in the

281
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 7: mode of trying to give Donald Trump the appointments he wants,

282
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 7: and yet I do think it's going to be a

283
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 7: drawn out process. I mean, there's requirements for high level

284
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 7: security clearances. Those haven't even begun because of delays in

285
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 7: the transition, So I think we'll be talking about this

286
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 7: for quite some time to come. But you know, she's

287
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 7: a talented individual who if she can explain away some

288
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 7: of the concerns that people have about her approach to

289
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 7: Syria and to Russia, then she stands a chance of

290
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 7: acceding to the job.

291
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 3: Well, she's also a former Democrat, Genie, so way in

292
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 3: here is this a job she deserves to have.

293
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,159
Speaker 8: You know, I think the Senate is going to do

294
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 8: it's vetting on her. I think what's troubling to me

295
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,840
Speaker 8: are the charges that are coming that she is somehow traitorous,

296
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 8: and I think we have to be very very careful

297
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,719
Speaker 8: with that kind of language when it's being used pretty

298
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 8: publicly without evidence. She does, to Rick's point, have to

299
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 8: explain her trips to Asad, she does have to explain

300
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 8: the language that she's been using as it pertains to Russia.

301
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 8: But just because somebody has a view that doesn't line

302
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 8: up with what is expected in certain circles, we have

303
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 8: to be very careful about calling her obviously a former VET,

304
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,640
Speaker 8: a former congresswoman, a former candidate for president, and now

305
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 8: this nominee. That said, I think questions have to be

306
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 8: asked by the Senate, and Senator Lang is right about

307
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 8: her expertise and ability to do this job, which is

308
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 8: what is very concerning to me. This is an important job.

309
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 8: This was a job created after nine to eleven to

310
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 8: ensure the president gets the best intelligence he can and

311
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 8: is she able to do that job. There are a

312
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,640
Speaker 8: variety of questions about that, and also questions about whether

313
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 8: our allies feel comfortable sharing information if she is at

314
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 8: the top of this. So I think all of those

315
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 8: are fair game. I would not be surprised if we

316
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:38,640
Speaker 8: see four people Murkowski, Collins, Mitch McConnell, maybe one from intelligence,

317
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 8: who say no to her and Donald Trump is forced

318
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 8: to look elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

319
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 3: Well, as we consider here what is and is not surprising,

320
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 3: Perhaps not too surprising, as it was already signaled that

321
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 3: this would be coming by Special Counsel Jack Smith, but

322
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 3: the DOJ now formally moving to drop the obstruction case

323
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 3: in the twenty twenty election case, specifically against the now

324
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: president elect. Here in Washington, Genie, we knew that they

325
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 3: weren't going to try to prosecute a sitting president. Jack

326
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 3: Smith has signaled this much. He's also apparently looking at

327
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 3: retiring before Donald Trump can even take office. And I

328
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: just wonder when you couple this with other news we

329
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 3: have gotten just last week that the sentencing in the

330
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,240
Speaker 3: case that Trump was convicted in has been postponed indefinitely.

331
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 3: Does this just end every legal inquiry essentially, at least

332
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 3: in terms of criminal prosecution into Donald Trump. Is this

333
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 3: ever going to be reignited?

334
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 8: I think for the most part this ends it, and

335
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 8: in my mind it should end it. There is a

336
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 8: big debate about do we end these or freeze these

337
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 8: as is happening in New York. I think at this

338
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,360
Speaker 8: point ending them is the right course. But you know,

339
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 8: it's a hard question because you know, setting aside Donald Trump,

340
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 8: there is a looming question about whether you're getting a

341
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 8: lot of jail free card is being elected to office.

342
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 8: That's deeply disconcerting to many Americans. But that said, at

343
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 8: this point, I do think the DOJ is right to

344
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 8: drop this, And if I was Jack Smith, I would

345
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 8: be sending in my resignation as well as I expect

346
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 8: we see his entire team resign at this point.

347
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, there's been plenty of reports that everyone who

348
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 3: was on that team might be fired from the Department

349
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 3: of Justice under this incoming administration. Anyway, Rick, as we

350
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 3: consider though, that it's not going to be Matt Gates

351
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 3: who leads the department going forward. He's taken himself out.

352
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 3: It's now Pam Bondi, who is the Attorney General designate.

353
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 3: There isn't much thought that she will face difficulty in

354
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: getting confirmed. How do you expect she'll handle things like

355
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 3: this or at the suggestions that the President elect made

356
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 3: on the campaign trail that he would like to go

357
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 3: after and see prosecuted people who are his own political enemies.

358
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, look, I mean there are plenty of that the

359
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 7: Justice Department have had in the past about how they

360
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 7: handle issues related to sitting presidents, and I think this

361
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 7: goes by the wayside just as consistent as any other

362
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 7: has done in the past, dating back to Richard Nixon.

363
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 7: The long and short of it, though, is Pam Bondi

364
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 7: will be the Chief Council Chief cop for the United

365
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 7: States of America and at this point in time, there's

366
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 7: no reason to believe that that's inconsistent with serving under

367
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 7: a Donald Trump presidency. And if in fact, there is

368
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 7: a date and time where the President instructs her to

369
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 7: do something otherwise, I think we'll hear from the courts

370
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 7: and from the Congress to ensure that these norms are

371
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 7: adhered to. And we certainly have no evidence that the

372
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 7: division of labor, the division of power in Congress and

373
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court or federal courts will see otherwise. So

374
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 7: I think there's systems in place to keep government running.

375
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 7: And it certainly is totally appropriate that Jack Smith would

376
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 7: see this opportunity to pursue other interests. And he's served

377
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 7: his country well over you know, two decades, and you

378
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 7: know he's not going to want to serve in an

379
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 7: administration that he's just been prosecuting.

380
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 2: So it's.

381
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 7: I don't see anything particularly surprising by the decision other

382
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 7: than the fact that it's happened now and it kind

383
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 7: of creates a finality to, you know, this crazy ride

384
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 7: we had starting back in August of twenty twenty three

385
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 7: when the President was indicted on federal charges. So it's

386
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 7: it's been quite something to see in the process work

387
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 7: its way out.

388
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 9: Well.

389
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: And as we consider here that we won't see Genie,

390
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: the evidence that was actually gathered by Jack Smith presented

391
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: in a courtroom, we have, to Rick's point, seeing the

392
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 3: original indictment than the stuper receiving one and the one

393
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: that was changed in light of the Supreme Court decision

394
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: around presidential immunity. A lot of these details made public

395
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: not just by Jack Smith and the judge in this case,

396
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 3: but also, of course, as it pertains to the events

397
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 3: of January sixth, specifically by the congressional committee that looked

398
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 3: into this and had highly publicized, publicized, televised hearings into this.

399
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 3: The American people already had knowledge of a lot of

400
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 3: this conduct and voted him to be the forty seventh

401
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 3: president anyway, So would it ultimately have even mattered if

402
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 3: everything came to light.

403
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean it's an excellent point, because you know,

404
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 8: you'd have to be living under a rock to not be,

405
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 8: you know, have knowledge as to what these accusations were,

406
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 8: and despite that, you had millions of Americans go to

407
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 8: the polls and choose Donald Trump. I do think it's

408
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 8: important that Smith and I understand he will issues a

409
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 8: report on his findings. That's critically important for posterity. It's

410
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 8: critically important for us as historians and scholars. I also

411
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 8: think it's critically important that the courts continue to do

412
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 8: their job, including define for us what the limits of

413
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 8: immunity are. You know, we don't live in a monarchy.

414
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 8: The idea of total complete immunity is not what they

415
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 8: were talking about, So those limits still need to be defined.

416
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 8: And to me, that is even more important than any

417
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 8: other continued prosecution of Donald Trump because this speaks to

418
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 8: people who serve in these positions going forward, and that's

419
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 8: what the government and the courts in particular need to

420
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 8: tell us what those limits are, because we've never had

421
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 8: to answer this question before.

422
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: All Right, Jeanie Shanzano alongside Rick Davis. Together they are

423
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: our signature political panel. Joining me on this Monday edition

424
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 3: of Balance of Power. Thank you so much, and we

425
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: still have more ahead. I'll be joined by Mick Mulvaney,

426
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: the former chief of staff in the first acting chief

427
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: of staff in the first Trump White House and director

428
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 3: of the Office of Budget and Management as well during

429
00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: that administration. He's next on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

430
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketches

431
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, car Play and

432
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: then Proud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on

433
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live

434
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: on YouTube.

435
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 3: As expected, the Department of Justice is moving through Special

436
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: counsel Jack Smith to drop the twenty twenty election obstruction

437
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: case against the now President elect Donald Trump. There have

438
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: been signals that this would happen, as it is long

439
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 3: standing DOJ policy not to prosecute a sitting president, which

440
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 3: Donald Trump will become once again fifty six days from now.

441
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: But it does end what was already a historic prosecution

442
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: series of prosecutions frankly against Trump as an individual that

443
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: are now going away as he gets set to take

444
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: office for a second time, and of course the first

445
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: time around when he was the forty fifth President of

446
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: the United States, mickmove was active in that administration. He's

447
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: former acting White House Chief of Staff under Trump, former

448
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and of

449
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 3: course co founder as well of the House Freedom Caucus

450
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: as a former congressman. To boot Mike, we know your

451
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 3: resume is long. It's always good to have you here

452
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg TV and Radio. There's a lot I'd like

453
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 3: to get into when it comes to the OMB specifically,

454
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 3: but if we could just first get your reaction to

455
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: this news. I know you had strong feelings about the

456
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 3: events in and around January sixth. Now, Donald Trump not

457
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 3: necessarily going to be held accountable for any of that

458
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 3: alleged action that he took in the lead up to

459
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 3: and during it. But this is largely to be.

460
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 9: Expected, right it is.

461
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 10: In fact, I think it's probably the biggest story that

462
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 10: everybody knew was going to happen.

463
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 9: Anyway. You can't.

464
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 10: I mean, it's been long standing policy, as you mentioned,

465
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 10: that you don't prosecute a sitting president, which means it

466
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 10: would have to sit there for at least four years

467
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 10: the prosecution would, which is not tenable. So I guess

468
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 10: this is an inevitable sort of side effect.

469
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 9: Of the election.

470
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now we're getting a new announcement from the

471
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: DJ also formally moving to drop the other federal case

472
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: against Donald Trump, which was the classified documents case down

473
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: in Florida, So both federal prosecutions are now out of

474
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: the picture. He of course has had his sentencing in

475
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 3: the case in New York, the state case around the

476
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 3: falsification of business records in which he was convicted, That

477
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: sentencing has been pushed back indefinitely. We're not quite sure

478
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: at this time what's going to happen with the other

479
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 3: state case down in Georgia. But this effectively Mick puts

480
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: to bed all of his at least criminal legal issues.

481
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 3: And I do wonder if he wouldn't be about to

482
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 3: go back into the White House had they not happened,

483
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: Had we not had these series of indictments throughout the

484
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: course of what was his active presidential campaign, do you

485
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: think he still would have won.

486
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 10: I think it gave him and you and I have

487
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 10: talked about this before a couple of times.

488
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 9: It gave him a new message. It gave him a

489
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 9: rallying cry.

490
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 10: Some of the criminal chargers were so weak, Kayleye, And

491
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 10: I know I'm giving an opinion on that, but they

492
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,719
Speaker 10: were facially very weak. The basis of the case, one

493
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 10: of the cases in New York was that he that

494
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 10: he paid back a loan early that the debtor didn't

495
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 10: or the lender didn't complain about. Another case was revolving

496
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 10: around it, you know, criminal charges for legal hush money payments,

497
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 10: and it gave him, you know, it raised a lot

498
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 10: of questions even with Democrats, as to whether or not

499
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 10: he would have been charged with those things if his

500
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 10: name wasn't Donald John Trump.

501
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 9: And it gave him that new.

502
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 10: Rallying cry that you know, look at what they're doing

503
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 10: to me. If they can do it to me, they

504
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 10: can do it to you. Elect me, and that won't happen.

505
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 10: It reinvigorated his campaign, so said from the very beginning.

506
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 10: If there's one human being probably most response with Donald

507
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 10: Trump going back to the White House, it's probably Alvin Bragg,

508
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 10: followed closely by Letitia James.

509
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: Incredible to consider. And of course, yes, we did hear

510
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 3: a lot about this from Donald Trump on the campaign trail.

511
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: Something else we heard from Trump frequently while he was

512
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 3: campaigning is that he had nothing to do with the

513
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: Heritage Foundations Project twenty twenty five. And yet we have

514
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 3: seen a number of people named to be part of

515
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 3: his second administration who were affiliated or contributed to that project.

516
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: And in fact, just a few weeks ago, Joe got

517
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: to sit down with the President of Heritage, Kevin Roberts,

518
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: who told him this about the way in which it

519
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: could be informing this incoming administration's policy decisions.

520
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 11: We think that this is the beginning of a golden

521
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 11: era of conservative reform. I will say that because the

522
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 11: work of Project twenty twenty five represents the conservative movement,

523
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 11: it would be very difficult for anybody to implement policies

524
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 11: on education, on the border, on taxation without at least

525
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 11: consulting those ideas in people. That's not some arrogant or

526
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 11: hubistic comment.

527
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 12: On our part.

528
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 11: That's just the nature of how policy making works.

529
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: And one of those people make that contributed to Project

530
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty twenty five has now been tapped to take

531
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: your old job, Omb Director Russ Vote will be reprising

532
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 3: his role. And I do wonder what you make of

533
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 3: that choice and if it actually does signal anything about

534
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 3: the way in which Project twenty twenty five could be

535
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 3: working its way into outcomes in this administration.

536
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

537
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 10: I mean, look, what I think the guy from Heritage

538
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 10: was trying to say in so many words, is twenty

539
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 10: Project twenty twenty twenty five is just Republican conservative orthodoxy

540
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 10: in a lot of different places.

541
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 9: So if you're going to be a Republican president.

542
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 10: You're going to probably put into place a lot of

543
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 10: things that happened to be in Project twenty twenty five.

544
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 10: I do think that the Trump campaign sort of moved

545
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 10: away from the project because in large part of the

546
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 10: positions on abortion, which they considered to be a liability politically.

547
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 10: But look, it's conservative orthodoxy and that's what's going forward.

548
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 9: You asked me about RUSS. I'm very excited about this.

549
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 10: In fact, I think, you know, Elon Musk and Vivek

550
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 10: Ramaswami get all the attention for this Department of Government efficiency,

551
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 10: and they should, and it's an important thing that they're doing.

552
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 10: But in order to implement the things that I think

553
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 10: they're going to start recommending, you have to have Omb

554
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 10: on board. And nobody knows more about government works or

555
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 10: doesn't work than RUSS votes. So I thought it was

556
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 10: a really, really solid decision at Omb, and he'll make

557
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 10: a good member of that government deficiency team. Keep in mind,

558
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 10: the last time President Trump asked somebody to restructure the

559
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 10: federal government, it was me, and we didn't have much

560
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 10: luck because the whole of the deep state was against us,

561
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 10: and some of our cabinet secretaries were against us. I

562
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 10: think I don't think that that troika of Elon, Vevek

563
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 10: and Russ are going to have the same impediments that

564
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 10: we had in twenty eighteen.

565
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 3: Well, and you could potentially add another name to that

566
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: team as well as Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia.

567
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: Apparently we'll be leading a House Oversight subcommittee helping implement

568
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: the DOGE recommendations. I do wonder though, as we know

569
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: that that Department quote unquote does have intel July fourth

570
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty six to make these proposals. To do

571
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 3: this work, there are going to be spending battles being

572
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: fought in Congress well before that. Basically right when we

573
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: get into the new year, the new Congress and the

574
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: new administration, we're going to have to deal not just

575
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: with regular appropriations, but a debt stealing fight. Well, and

576
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: I wonder how you think russ vote will navigate those

577
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: what it means for the ultimate outcomes of what those

578
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: deals could look like.

579
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 10: Well, what Russ is going to do, and this is

580
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 10: what good staffers are supposed to do, and Russ was

581
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 10: a good staffer in the previous administration. I have every

582
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 10: expectation he's going to be a good staffer going forward

583
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 10: is simply laying out the facts and the arguments for

584
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 10: the president. Russ is a lot more fiscally conservative than

585
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 10: the president United States is, just as I was. Trump

586
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 10: wanted to hear from the fiscally conservative wing of the

587
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 10: party and he wanted to hear from other folks as well,

588
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 10: and Russ will be the loudest voice in those discussions.

589
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 10: You're right, we've got appropriations bills to deal with, You've

590
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 10: got the debt ceiling to deal with.

591
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 9: You've got to look very closely.

592
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 10: Kailey, to that first sort of that thin budget that

593
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 10: will come out in the first couple of weeks of

594
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 10: the administration, because that will be the first indication is

595
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 10: what their priorities are. President's budget is a messaging budget,

596
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 10: you know, what are their priorities going to be? And

597
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 10: Russ will be obviously have his hand in that. So

598
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 10: it's going to be a very quick or a fast

599
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 10: moving couple of weeks on those spending issues, and it

600
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 10: will be interesting to see what not Trump comes down

601
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 10: sort of with that more the heavier spending side of

602
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 10: the party or the fiscally conservative side of the party

603
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 10: that Russ represents so well.

604
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 3: Well, and in those initial those first weeks, Mick, there

605
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: also is going to be a really narrow majority in

606
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: the chamber you used to sit in the House of Representatives.

607
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 3: It's really going to be only a few votes that

608
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: Mike Johnson can afford to lose as Speaker because Trump

609
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 3: has pulled three members of the House for this administration,

610
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: or I guess when you include Matt Gates having resigned

611
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: no longer being part of the administration, that's still a

612
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: vote gone in a special election that's not being held

613
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: until April first. How hard is this going to be

614
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: to get done with such a slim majority?

615
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 9: Really hard.

616
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 10: I think people lose sight of the fact it's not

617
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 10: quite as bad as it sounds, just because technically Waltz

618
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 10: is still a member of the House and can still vote.

619
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 9: Traditionally you don't, but you can.

620
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 10: I never voted after I was nominated for the OMB

621
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 10: back in twenty seventeen, but I could have.

622
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 9: It would have been legal for me to do that.

623
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 10: So until those folks are confirmed, all those House members,

624
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 10: they are still sitting and can vote, so they don't

625
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 10: really lose those Republican votes. Mike Johnson doesn't lose those

626
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 10: Republican votes until those folks resign. Now, yes, obviously mentioned

627
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 10: Matt Gates has already gone, so that narrows it a

628
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 10: little bit. But to your point, it's going to be tight,

629
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 10: There's no question about that.

630
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 9: And he's not going to be able to afford to

631
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 9: lose any folks, I think, any votes.

632
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 10: I think the one thing that's sort of sitting there,

633
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 10: the eight hundred pound gerrill in the room, is that

634
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 10: Donald Trump still has a lot of influence over the

635
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 10: Republican Party, probably never more so than now, and if

636
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 10: they want to whip votes, they should be very successful

637
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 10: in doing that well.

638
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: Perhaps though not enough influence over at least the Republicans

639
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: in the Senate to be able to get someone like

640
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: Gates through the confirmation process, hence himself gains taking himself

641
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 3: out of contention for that role. When we look at

642
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: some of these other nominees Toolsey Gabbard, RFK Junior, Pete Hegseeth,

643
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 3: do you think there could still be Republican resistance adequate

644
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 3: enough to potentially tank those nominations, Mick or is everyone

645
00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: else going to get through?

646
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 9: You know, it's it's a really good question.

647
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 10: It's one of those inside the Beltway questions, because oftentimes

648
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 10: it's not every single administration, but oftentimes what will happen

649
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 10: is an incoming administration will offer up a sacrificial lamb

650
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 10: somebody they know they can't get confirmed because they're too

651
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 10: extreme one way or the other, but it satisfies their

652
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 10: base and it gives sort of a little sop to

653
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 10: the minority party in the Senate. We saw this back

654
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 10: in twenty twenty one with Nero Teten, who was nominated

655
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 10: for omb by the Biden administration, even though a lot

656
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 10: of Democrats thought she was too progressively left to get confirmed,

657
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 10: and indeed she wasn't she They took that name down.

658
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 10: Was Matt Gates that sacrificial lamb? Or was he sort

659
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 10: of a different thing entirely. I think if you look

660
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 10: at the if you look at the names you just gave,

661
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 10: I gotta think Kennedy's got the toughest road just because he's.

662
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 9: Such a weird guy.

663
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,479
Speaker 10: I mean, I hate to use the word that you know,

664
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 10: you know, that word meant something before Tim Waal start

665
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 10: using on the campaign. But he's he's he's an unusual

666
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 10: human being, and it should make for an interesting confirmation process.

667
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 9: Heg Seth will get the attention because of the post.

668
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 10: Obviously, HHS, which Kennedy's nominated for, is not as critical,

669
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 10: is not as perceived as being as high ranking as

670
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 10: the Secretary of Defense is. But every time people ask

671
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 10: about Hegseth, I say, look, if he wasn't on TV

672
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 10: and he was just somebody with degrees from Princeton and

673
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 10: Harvard who had written a couple of books on the topic,

674
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 10: had two Bronze stars served overseas two different times, I

675
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 10: don't think you'd be getting the negative attention that you were.

676
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 9: So I think Hegseith is fine. I think Tools is fine.

677
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 10: I think if anybody is going to have the biggest challenge,

678
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 10: it's going to be Kennedy.

679
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: Well, and finally Mick. As we consider here the notion

680
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 3: of future challenges around all of these things, I do wonder,

681
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 3: assuming that these people can't even get confirmed, what challenges

682
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 3: they may face upon actually stepping into the job. If

683
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: this transition is delayed because of a lack of signing

684
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 3: of ethics and transparency pledges in order to get access

685
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: to the classified or at least not public information they

686
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 3: need to do their roles. What do you make of

687
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 3: of the slow walking here.

688
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 9: Listen that slow walking. It works both ways. There's a net.

689
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 10: You're seeing a natural tension now between the administrative, the

690
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 10: executive branch, and the legislative branch. It has very little

691
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 10: to do with party and everything to do with structure.

692
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 10: The incomeing administration doesn't want to sort of give everything

693
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 10: to the Senate all at one time, and the Senate

694
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 10: doesn't want to move very quickly. Keep in mind, I've

695
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 10: often said that, you know, advise and consent has in

696
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 10: large part become extort and delay. I can't tell you

697
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 10: the number of Republican centators who called me when I

698
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 10: was at OMB, trying to get stuff out of me

699
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 10: in exchange for lower level confirmations moving forward and so forth.

700
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 10: So there's that natural tension. I think it's important that

701
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 10: the Treasury Secretary go early, Secretary State Defense go early,

702
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 10: and that the OMB go early, just because you do

703
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 10: have to write that budget very quickly.

704
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 9: My guess is those.

705
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 10: Will be the first ones confirmed, and then the other

706
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 10: ones may drag out over the course of the next

707
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 10: couple of months.

708
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 12: Well.

709
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 3: Of course, he used to be director of the UMB himself.

710
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 3: Mick mulvaney also former acting Chief of Staff in the

711
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: Trump White House joining us here on Balance of Power.

712
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, especially as Mick helps us react

713
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: to the breaking news we have gotten just this hour,

714
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: the Justice Department making it official that they are dropping

715
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 3: the prosecutions the federal ones of the now president elect

716
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 3: in both cases. That includes the document's case in Florida

717
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: and of course the case related to twenty twenty election

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 3: subversion brought against Donald Trump. Here in Washington. We have

719
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 3: had reaction from Trump's communications director Stephen Chung, who says,

720
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: in part, the American people re elected President Trump with

721
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: an overwhelming mandate to make America great again. Today's decision

722
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 3: by the DOJ and the unconstitutional federal cases against President

723
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 3: Trump and is a major victory for the rule of law.

724
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens

725
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

726
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 2: ron Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also

727
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: listen live on Amazon Alecxa from our flagship New York

728
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 2: station Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

729
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: You're in Washington. We're getting this work week started after

730
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 3: what was a short weekend for many political journalists because

731
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: work went well into the night on Friday, as it

732
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 3: was Friday evening when the President elect Donald Trump decided

733
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 3: to dump a whole host of cabinet level nominations on us,

734
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: including that, as we've mentioned of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent

735
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 3: tapped for that job, but we also got his selection

736
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: to be the next Secretary of Labor. The current congressman

737
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: Republican or congresswoman rather from Oregon, Lori Chavez de Riemer,

738
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: and her nomination is already getting some pushback, not from

739
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 3: Democrats as you might expect, but actually from Republicans, as

740
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 3: conservatives have some concern about her support for the pro

741
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: Act protecting the Right to organize. She was one of

742
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: just three Republican co sponsors of that legislation, and some

743
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 3: see that as a sign that she might be too

744
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 3: close to labor unions. So for more on this and

745
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: what it signals about the approach to unions this incoming

746
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 3: administration will be taken, we turn to SETH Harris back

747
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 3: with us here on balance of power. He of course,

748
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: was a top labor policy advisor to President Biden. He's

749
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 3: now a senior fellow at the Burn Center for social

750
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 3: Change at Northeastern University. Seth, Welcome back to the program.

751
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 3: I do wonder what you know of Shavez Dreamer, excuse me,

752
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 3: and how close to unions you really perceive her to be.

753
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 12: What I know about her is that she is a unicorn.

754
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 12: She is a genuine pro union Republican and we thought

755
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 12: they had all gone extinct, but here we found one

756
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 12: in nature or President Trump founder in nature. She had

757
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 12: support from several unions in her re election campaign, which

758
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 12: was unsuccessful. As you noted earlier, she is a sponsor

759
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 12: of co sponsor of the pro Act, which is the

760
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 12: private sector worker organizing legislation that has been pushed aggressively

761
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 12: by the labor movement, particularly the AFLCIO. She's also a

762
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 12: supporter of a very important public sector worker organizing piece

763
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 12: of legislation. So these are positions taken by only a

764
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 12: very very very small handful of Republicans in Congress, and

765
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 12: that's why she is facing some pushback from elements of

766
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 12: the business community and also from some Senate Republicans.

767
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 3: So if she's going to be confirmed by the Senate,

768
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: would you expect Actually most of that support comes from

769
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 3: Democrats instead of the majority Republicans, well.

770
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 12: The Senate Republican caucuses in a little bit of a

771
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 12: pickle with a congress Woman Chavez Durimer. They don't want

772
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 12: to vote no on one of President Trump's nominees, particularly

773
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 12: when there are several other nominees who are much more serious,

774
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 12: problematic than the congresswoman is. I won't name them, but

775
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 12: you know who I'm talking about. So the question is,

776
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 12: does the business community very aggressively oppose Congresswoman Chavez Dureimer

777
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 12: in her effort to become Labor Secretary. I expect that

778
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 12: she will get a large majority, if not all, of

779
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 12: the Democrats supporting her, because she is just about the

780
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 12: best candidate for Labor Secretary the Democrats could hope for.

781
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 12: I expect she will get a very sizeable percentage of

782
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 12: the Republican caucus simply because President Trump wants them to

783
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 12: vote for her, and they're going to have to save

784
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 12: their no votes for other cases.

785
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: Well, as we consider what the president elect wants. Seth

786
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 3: You of course have been on this program before, arguing

787
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: that he was not a very pro union president the

788
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 3: first time around, But does this selection suggest that this

789
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 3: second administration might actually be different?

790
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 12: I hope so, but I doubt it very much for

791
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 12: a number of reasons. First, President Trump has made pretty

792
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 12: clear he is not a fan of unions, and there's

793
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 12: a lot of people around him who are very aggressively

794
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 12: opposed to unions and would like to see the union

795
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 12: movement shrink or disappear. The second reason is that the

796
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 12: Labor Department is not the National Labor Relations Board. The

797
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 12: law that is made and the regulations that are promulgated

798
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 12: having to do with worker organizing and collective bargaining come

799
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 12: out of the National Labor Relations Board. The Labor Department

800
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 12: administers job training programs, enforces employment laws like the minimum

801
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 12: wage and overtime, but it really has nothing whatsoever to

802
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 12: do with union organizing and collective bargaining. And the third

803
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 12: reason is President Trump has already made abundantly clear that

804
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 12: he would like to eliminate or significantly reduce the size

805
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 12: of federal sector unions, the unions that represent federal employees.

806
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 12: I don't think that all of a sudden he's going

807
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 12: to become a union supporter in one sector and the

808
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 12: aggressive opponent of unions among the employees who are going

809
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 12: to be working for him. So I'd like to be

810
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 12: positive about this appointment. I think it is a good

811
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 12: thing that somebody who thinks about workers and thinks about

812
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 12: worker power will be sitting in the secretary's office at

813
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 12: the Labor Department. I didn't expect that, but I don't

814
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 12: think it means that President Trump all of a sudden

815
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 12: becomes Joe Biden.

816
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 3: Well, we also know that President Trump, or as when

817
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 3: he becomes the forty seventh president, there are a number

818
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 3: of things that he would like to pursue that would

819
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: impact labor supply in the United States, including the mass

820
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: deportations he's been talking about, which could create a shortage

821
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 3: in some sectors of workers. And I wonder if you

822
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: actually see that creating an environment in which unions and

823
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: collective bargaining could be able to exercise more power if

824
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 3: the supply of workers is reduced materially.

825
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 12: The mass deportation is is going to be tragic for

826
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 12: our country, and it's going to be catastrophic for our economy.

827
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 12: I don't think it helps the labor movement in the

828
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 12: least Organized labor works very closely with immigrant communities in

829
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 12: their organizing, in their outreach, and their advocacy. There's a

830
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 12: lot of evidence that some employers use immigration law to

831
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 12: bust union organizing drives. They call the immigration authorities when

832
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 12: there's any sense that workers who are undocumented and working

833
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 12: for those employers might be trying to organize. I fear

834
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 12: that that will return, and that we will see a

835
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 12: lot of union organizing sabotage in that way in certain sectors.

836
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 12: You have undocumented workers in some sectors, but not all sectors.

837
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 12: But I think it is going to put a lot

838
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 12: of fear into the hearts of a lot of workers

839
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 12: all across the country, not merely undocumented immigrants, but others

840
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 12: like DACA recipient and DOCA beneficiaries, and those who have

841
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 12: temporary protective status and those who have green cards even

842
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 12: are going to be very deeply fearful that they could

843
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 12: be sent out of the United States. So this is

844
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 12: not good, I think, for anyone, but I think it's

845
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 12: particularly bad for those workers who would like to see

846
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 12: more organizing.

847
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 9: Well.

848
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: And as we consider the potential secondary effects of some

849
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 3: other policies as well, like tariffs, for example, which could

850
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 3: raise obviously the cost of importing materials in supply into

851
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: the US, and that could hit ultimately the bottom line

852
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,760
Speaker 3: for many companies I wonder then, how that filters into

853
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: the labor costs they are willing to tolerate. What what that

854
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: would mean for wages, especially if it also creates an

855
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 3: inflationary environment and workers would be looking for wages to

856
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 3: try to keep paced with that. How do you see

857
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: that potentially playing out as the way in which tariffs

858
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 3: ultimately translate to labor.

859
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 12: The logic of President Trump tariffs is that if you

860
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 12: build up high tax walls, tariffs are essentially taxes. If

861
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 12: you build up high tax walls to bringing goods into

862
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 12: the United States, then we will develop industries in the

863
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 12: United States to make those same goods, and they will

864
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 12: be comparatively advantaged. That's the logic, But it's so grossly

865
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 12: oversimplified that it's just not going to turn out that way.

866
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 12: First of all, a lot of industries have left the

867
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 12: United States because it's simply too expensive for them to

868
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 12: operate here. They don't want to pay a living wage

869
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 12: to American workers, they don't want to comply with American

870
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 12: environmental standards, they don't want to pay American taxes, and

871
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 12: so they have moved overseas. Those manufacturing facilities and other

872
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 12: kinds of facilities largely are not going to come back,

873
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 12: and even if they were to come back, it would

874
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 12: take years and years and years to engage in the

875
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,959
Speaker 12: kind of industrial policy that would be required in order

876
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 12: to rebuild those industries in the United States. So the

877
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 12: likeliest content consequence of the tariffs will be much higher

878
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 12: prices for Americans for consumers, not merely with respect to

879
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 12: imported products, but also domestic products. The prices will go

880
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 12: up because they know American producers won't have to keep

881
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 12: their prices low. And also, I think a lot of

882
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 12: people are going to lose their jobs because what's important

883
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 12: into the United States is not all finished goods. Some

884
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 12: of the goods are inputs to products that are made

885
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 12: in the United States. And if you're building a car

886
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 12: and you can't get the part of the car that

887
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 12: you need that's coming in from another country, you can't

888
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 12: build cars. And that means that people are going to

889
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 12: lose their jobs. So this is going to be very,

890
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 12: very deeply disruptive. It is going to be very expensive,

891
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 12: and it's going to be bad for the economy and

892
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 12: workers well.

893
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 3: And of course a lot of these imports and inputs

894
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 3: into goods come first through ports, as they enter the

895
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: United States, which brings me to another question set the

896
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: dock workers strike here on the East Coast, that, of

897
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 3: course a deal was reached to put off until January fifteenth,

898
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: or suspend until then. That's just five days before President

899
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 3: Trump will be inaugurated. What exactly how difficult a union

900
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 3: negotiation could he be inheriting essentially from his first days

901
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 3: back in the Oval office.

902
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 12: Very very difficult. The biggest issue for the longshore workers

903
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 12: in their negotiations with the US Maritime Alliance, which is

904
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 12: the trade association of the East Coast and Gulf Coast ports,

905
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 12: was wages, and the union and management settled the wages issue.

906
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 12: But the other biggest and most important issue is automation.

907
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 12: What the union does not want to see happen is

908
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 12: for their members to be displaced by automation in the ports.

909
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 12: Of course, the employers would like to move to automation

910
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 12: because it's a lot cheaper and it allows them to

911
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 12: do what they're currently doing with many fewer workers. So

912
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 12: that is a big sticking point and it is deeply contentious.

913
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 12: The union and management have started negotiations a number of time,

914
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 12: number of times over the last several months, and then

915
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 12: they've stopped negotiations because they simply cannot make progress. So

916
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 12: I think the possibility of a strike is quite high.

917
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 12: I think that President Trump is going to face a

918
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 12: challenge when he gets sworn in.

919
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: All right, Seth Harris, thank you so much for joining me,

920
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: senior fellow at the Burn Center for Social Change at

921
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: Northeastern University and a former top labor policy advisor to

922
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 3: President Biden here with us on Balance of Power.

923
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 9: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

924
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 10: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify.

925
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 5: Or wherever you get your podcasts, and

926
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 10: You can find us Life every weekday from Washington, DC

927
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 10: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.