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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Dana Perkins, and you're listening to Switch on

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Speaker 1: the b n F podcast. So today I speak with

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Speaker 1: Andres Glusky, CEO of a S Corporation, and he shares

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Speaker 1: his thoughts on innovation from an electrical power company's perspective.

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Speaker 1: Can batteries be peakers? Is green hydrogen overhyped? And what

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Speaker 1: has a S already done to bring their emissions down?

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Speaker 1: And what are they innovating one for the future, in

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Speaker 1: particular in regard to their net zero target. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like to read some related b n F research, you

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Speaker 1: can go to the Bloomberg terminal at BENF Go or

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Speaker 1: to b NF dot com or a mobile app. Some

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Speaker 1: examples of things that might be of interest to you

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Speaker 1: include the corporate net zero state of play key trends

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Speaker 1: or the corporate pp A deal tracker from or our

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Speaker 1: first half energy storage market outlook, and lastly the Texas

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Speaker 1: Power failure the supply story. As a reminder, B and

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Speaker 1: the F does not provide investment or strategy advice, and

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Speaker 1: we have a complete disclaimer at the end of the show.

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Speaker 1: But now let's hear from Andres. Andres, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us on Switched. On today. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell me just a little bit about yourself and how

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Speaker 1: you got involved in the power sector. Well, Dana, first,

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Speaker 1: thanks for you very much for the invitation. It's a

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Speaker 1: real honor to be on this podcast. I got into

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Speaker 1: the electricity sector via telecoms. So I was in telecoms

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Speaker 1: in the nineties. I found it a fascinating time because

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Speaker 1: first you had digital networks, you had cellular networks, and

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Speaker 1: then you had internet service providers. So I was lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to be in the telecommunication sector in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: which really underwent tremendous transformation. So from telecoms, I got

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Speaker 1: into an electricity company. It was a multinational and that

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Speaker 1: multinational was based in Venezuela, where I'm from, and it

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Speaker 1: was bought by A S. And that's how I started

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Speaker 1: working for A S in the year two thousand. So

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Speaker 1: I find a lot of parallels between the sectors, between

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Speaker 1: a telecom and the electricity sector. And I think what

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Speaker 1: we're experiencing today in the electricity sector is most similar

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Speaker 1: to what I lived in the nineties in the telecom sector.

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Speaker 1: So it's a fascinating time to be in the electric sector.

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Speaker 1: It's undergoing a transformation. The likes of which it hasn't

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Speaker 1: had for a hundred years. Yes, so you're in this

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Speaker 1: super fast moving, rapidly changing space. And I bet when

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Speaker 1: you first got involved in the electricity sector it was

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Speaker 1: pretty box standard and then things seem to have well,

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Speaker 1: have changed quite a bit. So just reflecting back on

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Speaker 1: even just the time since you became CEO, So you've

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Speaker 1: been CEO for quite sometimes since, and what have you

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Speaker 1: seen change really in how people not only look at

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Speaker 1: this industry and what happens in this industry, but just

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Speaker 1: even in the terminology because we're thinking that you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of companies right now talk about net zero

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Speaker 1: targets and E s G has become a phrase that

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Speaker 1: was you know, niche maybe when you first started, and

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Speaker 1: is now ubiquitous across a lot of investors in the

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Speaker 1: investment community. How is the terminology and really just kind

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Speaker 1: of the speed of change changed, Well, it's changed dramatically.

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Speaker 1: When I became CEO at the end of twenty eleven

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Speaker 1: and we saw that this was going to change, we

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Speaker 1: thought the sector was right for a change, but the

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Speaker 1: technologies weren't really ready. So for example, we started really

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Speaker 1: inventing I would say grid scale energy storage using lithium

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Speaker 1: ion batteries for example. Back then, you know this this

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Speaker 1: goes back even I started to CEO a little bit

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Speaker 1: before I was CEO, working with people here like Chris Shelton,

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Speaker 1: we saw that, you know, energy storage was very much

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Speaker 1: needed if we were going to have a renewable revolution,

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Speaker 1: because as we all know, renewables are mostly intermittent and

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Speaker 1: that means that they're not available, so you really needed capacity.

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Speaker 1: So how are you going to achieve zero carbon capacity?

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Speaker 1: We had this view of where the sector could go.

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Speaker 1: We also thought about digitalization, so we worked very hard

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Speaker 1: to become very efficient, leading edge innovator, i would say

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Speaker 1: from the very start, but the cost of the of

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Speaker 1: renewables and many of the technologies weren't there. That that's

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Speaker 1: really been I would say in the last four or

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Speaker 1: five years, were renewable energy not capacity. Renewable energy really

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Speaker 1: became cheapest in many locations. So the good thing is

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Speaker 1: we had a great foundation to be able to incorporate

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Speaker 1: all of the latest technologies when they became really cost effective.

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Speaker 1: So we were, i'd like to say a little bit

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Speaker 1: ahead of the curve now in terms of how the

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Speaker 1: sector talked about it. It was interesting when I first started,

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Speaker 1: you know, making large investments in renewables, investing in leading technologies,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them through joint ventures. I did get

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Speaker 1: some pushback you know from uh, you know, some investors,

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Speaker 1: and I remember the term. One said you you really

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Speaker 1: drank the kool aid, and I was saying, no, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we think we're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: make money in this and we think the transition will happen.

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Speaker 1: So what we've done really is, I would say, be

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Speaker 1: a leader in the transition. We have let's say, we've

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Speaker 1: retired or sold more coal as a percentage of our

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Speaker 1: fleet than anybody in the States. Uh. And in terms

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Speaker 1: of absolute I think we're second, if not first. But

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Speaker 1: we've also are one of the largest renewable developers among

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Speaker 1: all the US companies. What we have done is shut

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Speaker 1: one down in a responsible fashion and build the new.

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Speaker 1: So now we find that we no longer get that pushback.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have anybody questioning it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: our leadership, you'll say in in g matters is becoming

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Speaker 1: more more commonplace. But you know, for example, we were

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Speaker 1: the first large US company in our sector to come

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Speaker 1: out with a report for the Task Force on Climate Disclosure.

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Speaker 1: In we came out with the second report last year.

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Speaker 1: We're part of the Dow Jones Sustainability Index. In terms

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Speaker 1: of innovation, it's very interesting. The Edison Electric Institute, which

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Speaker 1: is sort of the umbrella organization of the large electric

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Speaker 1: companies in the US, gives two prices for innovation every year,

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Speaker 1: one internationally and one domestically. We have won seven prizes

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Speaker 1: in the last twelve years, so if you think about that,

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Speaker 1: we've we've won a very high percentage. Nobody else comes

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Speaker 1: close for the domestic or the international because you guys

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Speaker 1: operate in both in North and South America. That's correct,

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Speaker 1: we've won both. We've won domestic for the US and

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Speaker 1: we've won international. We've been running up twice as well.

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Speaker 1: So I think that, you know, this shows that this

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Speaker 1: spirit of entrepreneurship, the spirit of innovation that the a

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Speaker 1: S has somewhat unique, has given very good results. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we have really moved radically into renewables. I'd

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Speaker 1: say we're probably half half the way there. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, you know, are we be we were

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Speaker 1: more profitable, you know, we're more profitable than we've ever been.

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Speaker 1: So we haven't really given up on the economic and

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Speaker 1: financial side to be able to make this transition. Well,

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Speaker 1: so perhaps instead of drinking the cool lady saw the

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Speaker 1: future and speaking of the future, So a s a

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Speaker 1: net zero target, of when did you set that target?

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Speaker 1: We have multiple targets and so one of the things

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Speaker 1: that you know, a lot of people were setting sort

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Speaker 1: of twenty fifty targets and we thought, well, that's a

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Speaker 1: long times out and you know, the key executives aren't

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Speaker 1: going to be here. One that happened, So we set

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Speaker 1: a lot of shorter term goals. So we have set goals.

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Speaker 1: We said goals, we said goals. So are I'd say

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Speaker 1: our most dramatic is by we want to be net

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Speaker 1: zero from electricity and then completely net zero by but

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Speaker 1: we want to be below ten of our generation coming

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Speaker 1: from coal, and we wanted to be below by. So

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Speaker 1: we have you know, made you know, dramatic commitments, but

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Speaker 1: you know, so far we've been overachieving them. So I

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Speaker 1: think that we're on a good track to achieve these

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Speaker 1: uh and we're making the necessary investments today, So we

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Speaker 1: really aren't just making the investments. In many cases, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of inventing inventing the market on the digital space,

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Speaker 1: on the energy storage space, on the combination space. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that that's what's allowed us to move that quickly.

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Speaker 1: About when do you think that a s IS portfolio

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Speaker 1: will reach kind of peak emissions? Are you already drawing

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Speaker 1: down on emissions now? Or is that thing that really

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Speaker 1: will take some time in some investment into before you

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Speaker 1: can reach that peak and then really start to come down. No. No,

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Speaker 1: we've passed peak emissions. We're certainly on a decreasing So

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Speaker 1: I've actually never you know, directly thought of that question,

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Speaker 1: but it must have been like two or three years

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Speaker 1: ago when we really started building giga watts of renewables

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Speaker 1: and when we started shutting down giggle watts of of

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Speaker 1: cold So you know, in the big picture, we've sold

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Speaker 1: or retired about twelve gigawatts of coal and you know,

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Speaker 1: some of it is still in the closing down phase

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Speaker 1: because you can't do this overnight, but it will happen

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Speaker 1: over the next couple of years. Uh. And we've built

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Speaker 1: probably twelve gigga watts of renewables in that time period.

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Speaker 1: But in addition, I would say we're doing a lot

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Speaker 1: for climate change that doesn't really count in those numbers

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Speaker 1: because today we're selling energy storage through our joint venture

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Speaker 1: with Siemens called Fluence. We're now in twenty nine countries,

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Speaker 1: and energy storage is really allowing people to put more

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Speaker 1: renewables on the grid. You know, we also have a

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Speaker 1: joint venture where we make prefabs holder a product called Maverick,

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Speaker 1: and the joint ventures with a company called five b

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Speaker 1: Uh and we're starting to roll that out, and so

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Speaker 1: that allows you to double the energy density of solar farms,

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Speaker 1: build them in a third of the time, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: most importantly, it's hurricane resistant. We have projects which have survived,

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Speaker 1: you know, very well to category four hurricanes and now

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Speaker 1: we're testing it in category five tunnel tests. So we're

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Speaker 1: doing a lot to help the transition to a sustainable

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Speaker 1: energy future beyond just our own platform. And as we

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Speaker 1: record today, there's actually a tropical storm headed for Florida,

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Speaker 1: so definitely something that you know, many people are keeping

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Speaker 1: an eye on. Let's expand on that. You know, climate

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Speaker 1: change is often talked about in terms of global averages,

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Speaker 1: but really re experience them in these extremes and as

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Speaker 1: you referenced, hurricanes, and we have these high temperatures actually

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Speaker 1: that happened recently in British Columbia, and then these incredibly

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Speaker 1: low temperatures that happened just this last winter in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and these have big implications for power companies. You're looking

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Speaker 1: at this resilience within as you referenced within your solar investments.

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Speaker 1: How do you think power companies can prepare for these

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Speaker 1: extremes and how important is it for power companies to

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Speaker 1: prepare for extremes when you just don't know how often

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Speaker 1: these things will happen. Well, as they say, it's not

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Speaker 1: just global warming, it's global weirding. So you will have

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Speaker 1: more extremes in temperatures, you'll have changes in rainfall patterns

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Speaker 1: as well. So we've looked at this very deeply, i'd say,

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Speaker 1: when we came out with a second task of for

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Speaker 1: you know, report on climate disclosure, the one we looked

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Speaker 1: at two scenarios and one scenario was basically that the

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Speaker 1: world doesn't do enough to reduce emissions and the temperature

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Speaker 1: rises on average four and a half degree celsius. And

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Speaker 1: the other scenario is that you know the world is

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Speaker 1: successful and keeps the temperature increased below to degrees celsius.

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Speaker 1: And what we found is that our business is resilient

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Speaker 1: both in terms of its physical assets and in terms

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Speaker 1: of financially in terms of where our exposure will be

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Speaker 1: when these things occur. So we started that, we did

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Speaker 1: it again, and you know, we're more robust in Uh,

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Speaker 1: the scenarios have changed somewhat, but I feel confident of it. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that I think is

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Speaker 1: very important is that we really be serious and look

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Speaker 1: at the details. Because when Hurricane Maria hit, for example,

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Speaker 1: our solar farms in the US Virgin Islands were completely destroyed.

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Speaker 1: If you look at what happened to wind farms in

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico as well. You have to really have renewables

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Speaker 1: that can resist these extremes. So I go back to,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Maverick product of five B that's hurricane

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Speaker 1: resistant solar. That's key. You know, it doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: to make people build something that will be destroyed. So

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Speaker 1: one of the approaches that we've taken I think that's

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Speaker 1: unique is that we think of ourselves as open source.

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Speaker 1: So when we come up with new developments, whether it

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Speaker 1: be energy storage, AI efficiency programs, whether it be you know,

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Speaker 1: hurricane resistant solar, farms. We sell it to third parties

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Speaker 1: because this is a global problem. So if we can

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Speaker 1: get people to put these on their platforms, will advance

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Speaker 1: renewables much faster than we try to just keep it

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Speaker 1: as a competitive advantage for ourselves. That definitely does push

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Speaker 1: things forward, because well, it pushes innovation. So you were

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Speaker 1: talking about how a S really looked at batteries before

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Speaker 1: they were probably as popular as they are today. And

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Speaker 1: also a lot of these renewable technologies which now have

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Speaker 1: very strong economics, but didn't always. So this puts some

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Speaker 1: emphasis on technology an advancement. And of course there's advancing

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Speaker 1: existing technologies and making them more efficient better. But then

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Speaker 1: there's this concept of what don't we know? What haven't

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Speaker 1: we invented yet? And that came up earlier this year.

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Speaker 1: So Biden convene in this climate summit with world leaders,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that Secretary carry said at

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Speaker 1: that summit was that many of the technologies that we

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Speaker 1: need for a net zero future haven't been invented yet.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's true and if so, where do

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Speaker 1: you see the technology development going. Well, I think it's

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Speaker 1: true in the sense that we have to get to

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Speaker 1: net zero in all sectors, not just electricity. So I

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Speaker 1: think in the case of electricity that you will have

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Speaker 1: specific problems, mostly of capacity in places where you know

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Speaker 1: you don't have good win, you don't have good solar,

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Speaker 1: you have great seasonal variability. So the truth is thinking

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Speaker 1: of the US as a whole, you know, we probably

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Speaker 1: know how to get to probably about carbon free. The

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Speaker 1: last will be more difficult, and so the real question

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Speaker 1: is how do you approach that, and against it's a

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Speaker 1: question of doing it economically because you know you could

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Speaker 1: do it, but the cost of electricity would would not

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Speaker 1: be affordable, so that really there is that issue. There

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Speaker 1: are technologies on the horizon energy storage using lithiumine batteries

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Speaker 1: US keep getting cheaper, but it's not the ideal solution

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Speaker 1: for for example, interseasonal variations, because it's it's terrific for

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Speaker 1: even you know, I would say weekly variations, but it's

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Speaker 1: not the right technology for interseasons. So you know, will

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Speaker 1: it be green hydrogen, will it be modular nuclear, so

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Speaker 1: on something? Some of these you know, we do need

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Speaker 1: to really have the And again, the technology i'd say exists,

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Speaker 1: the real question is can you scale it up? Is

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Speaker 1: it cost efficient? Decisions have to be made. You know,

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Speaker 1: are we going to except, for example, modular nuclear, because

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Speaker 1: that would solve a lot of the problems of capacity.

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Speaker 1: You know, those are the decisions that have to be made. Now.

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Speaker 1: Do I think that we will get there? I do,

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Speaker 1: But I do think that there's a whole lot we

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Speaker 1: can do with today's existing technologies. It's a question of

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Speaker 1: having the right regulations in place to incentivize using the

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Speaker 1: best possible technology, because some of this is regulatory driven,

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Speaker 1: so sometimes regulations are keeping back the optimal technologies. Now

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Speaker 1: for a very short break, stay with us. So I

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Speaker 1: love that you brought up green hydrogen because hydrogen is

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Speaker 1: definitely a very buzzy topic at the moment. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people want to know more about the potential of

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Speaker 1: hydrogen maybe when the costs are really going to be

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Speaker 1: at parody, and I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: companies that really are thinking about this as a is

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Speaker 1: a very viable solution for the future. So I'm maybe

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Speaker 1: not necessarily about hydrogen um, but about any technology. If

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Speaker 1: you had to pick, what is one energy transition technology

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Speaker 1: that you feel is a bit overhyped at the moment. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: I do think it probably be green hydrogen. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have today probably the first industrial scale project in

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Speaker 1: Chile to produce green ammonia. It's a joint venture and

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Speaker 1: you know, we're in the feasibility study and as you say,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's really it can be produced. The question is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the price point. But if successful, you know,

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Speaker 1: this would be require almost a giggle watt of renewable

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Speaker 1: energy to crack the water and produce the hydrogen, and

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Speaker 1: then of course you have to transport it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: can you use a fuel like green ammonia for the transportation.

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Speaker 1: So we're actually I think leaving the pack in this.

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Speaker 1: I'm not aware of any other truly industrial scale in

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Speaker 1: this case. It's green ammonia, hydrogen based fuel that's at

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Speaker 1: this stage of advancement that we're in. So you have

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Speaker 1: a lot of projects that are you know, twenty megawatts

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Speaker 1: or you know, pilot projects. So it gets hype like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is the solution. Well, no, we have to be

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Speaker 1: able to do, you know, make a million tons three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand tons a year from one facility to to

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Speaker 1: really drive down the cost. So I think it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit overhyped. Now. The other issue is Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's the electric sectors. I said, the real problem is capacity,

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Speaker 1: uh and inter seasonal fluctuations. But then you have transportation.

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Speaker 1: In the case of transportation, I do think that you know,

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Speaker 1: for everyday commuting electric vehicles are you know, probably the solution.

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Speaker 1: Now when you're talking about long hauls of trucking and

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Speaker 1: the like, you know, that's where something like hydrogen comes in.

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Speaker 1: Do we have the engines that don't need a starter fuel?

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Speaker 1: Do we have you know, how are you going to

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Speaker 1: transport it? You know, how are you going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the whole cycle makes sense? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to think of the whole cycle. You know,

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Speaker 1: what is the energy loss when you produce the fuel,

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Speaker 1: when you store it, when you transport it, and then

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Speaker 1: you burn it again. You know, you have to look

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Speaker 1: at the complete picture. So there's still a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that have to happen. So I think some of

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Speaker 1: the companies are over hyping it. If if we get

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Speaker 1: this big project off, you know, by the end of

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Speaker 1: this year, I think that's going to be really a

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Speaker 1: milestone in the sector. So it's going to be very

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Speaker 1: specifically you know, for like say ocean transportation, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of it would go into actually fertilizer, I believe.

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Speaker 1: So I have to ask, do you have an electric vehicle? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I do, well, Yes, I do have a Tesla Model three.

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Speaker 1: In addition, you know here at a Yes, we've been

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Speaker 1: planting trees to offset our carbon emissions. It actually started

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Speaker 1: by Roger Sant, who's who's one of our two founders.

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Speaker 1: But you know today we've planted ten million trees. So

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Speaker 1: even today we calculate our carbon footprint for by for travel,

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Speaker 1: you know, because bart really jet travel is probably the

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Speaker 1: most carbon intensive thing that any of us does. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we offset it by planting trees in Brazil. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're very conscious about our own carbon footprint and trying

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Speaker 1: to reduce it in all our installations. How much of

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Speaker 1: an opportunity or potentially logistical challenge do you think electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles are going to pose for the grid and for

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Speaker 1: the electricity sector, because as you referenced, for long haul,

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Speaker 1: even an electric vehicle, you've got to figure out where

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Speaker 1: you're going to charge and where you're gonna take your breaks,

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Speaker 1: and it may not always happen at home. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: a good question. Look, I think that first year you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have the you know, for example, electrification of bus fleets.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's going to require energy storage because it's

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Speaker 1: basically either you have to upgrade the whole grid or

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Speaker 1: or you're going to store up energy in certain you know,

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Speaker 1: bus team posts. When you think of cars, you know,

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Speaker 1: individually at the homes, they're kind of like mobile batteries,

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Speaker 1: and so how do they fit into a smart grid.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that we're the leaders in

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Speaker 1: quite frankly through a joint venture called Uplight, we are

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Speaker 1: the leading energy efficiency services cloud based services provider, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a sort of a data point where we're the biggest,

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Speaker 1: I believe seller of nests in the country. We provide

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Speaker 1: energy efficiency algorithms, etcetera to a d us electric and

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Speaker 1: gas utilities. So I think this part of using AI

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Speaker 1: and smart networks is part of the solution because the

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Speaker 1: most let's say, carbon friendly solution is to use electricity

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Speaker 1: more efficiently, and so we're approaching that as well. So

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Speaker 1: the way we look at it, what is unique about

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Speaker 1: AS is that we bring together all the technologies and

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Speaker 1: we joint venture with people. We've been very effective at

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Speaker 1: taking small startups and growing up to you know, unicorns valuations,

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Speaker 1: you know, over a billion dollars, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: we are pretty much open source, you know, we are

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Speaker 1: sharing our technological advances with with everybody. So again, when

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Speaker 1: we started using lithium ion batteries for energy storage, nobody

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Speaker 1: else was and we had the first great scale units

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Speaker 1: not only in the States, but you know in countries

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Speaker 1: like you know, Germany, the UK, India, Philippines, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the work was, for example, with regulators to

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Speaker 1: get that pass. So, you know, we could have taken

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Speaker 1: an approach and saying, look, we're leading in this, let's

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Speaker 1: use it to you know, win more power purchase agreements.

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Speaker 1: But instead, you know, I think we took the right

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Speaker 1: role of saying, okay, we will sell it at the

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Speaker 1: same price to others because it will allow us to

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Speaker 1: massiffice and drop the cost. What's one of the areas

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Speaker 1: in particular in regard to storage, where you see there

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Speaker 1: are being some real potential and one of the things

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Speaker 1: that you're kind of maybe not experimenting, but trying out.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the areas that excites me most

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Speaker 1: is the application of energy storage to transmission, because transmission

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Speaker 1: lines are built, you know, the whole line for the

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Speaker 1: maximum use at any period of time. You know, it

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Speaker 1: could be a couple of days of a month, and

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Speaker 1: it could be a couple of hours during those days.

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Speaker 1: So really they're overbuilt, you know the words, they're a

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Speaker 1: little bit like you know, uh, you know, they have

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Speaker 1: the you have the opportunity like for an uber or

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Speaker 1: B and B Airbnb. So how can you make better

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Speaker 1: use of that transmission? So if you put energy storage

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Speaker 1: on it, you can basically run those same transmission line

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Speaker 1: at of capacity all the time because you are storing

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Speaker 1: it up in these banks and injecting it where you

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Speaker 1: need it when you need it. Now, this is very

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Speaker 1: important because we all talk about the renewables and how

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Speaker 1: we're gonna build you know, thousands of giga lots of renewables,

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Speaker 1: but those are not located where the energy demand is.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to have to create transmission to get

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Speaker 1: it across and that's going to take years for the permits,

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Speaker 1: and you know, tens of billions of dollars to build

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Speaker 1: that transmission. So the smart application of energy storage could

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Speaker 1: drastically reduce the amount of money you have to invest

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Speaker 1: in transmission. So right now we have through sements. We've

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Speaker 1: talked to the German government and they're they've put out

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Speaker 1: a request for proposals to use energy storage so that

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Speaker 1: they can use the existing transmission lines two more efficiently

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Speaker 1: bring energy from the North Sea down to the southeast

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Speaker 1: of Germany where you have a lot of the industrial load. So, um,

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Speaker 1: this is a great case where we can prove it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then I think that the main restriction. I think

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Speaker 1: the technical issues are will be solvable or you know,

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Speaker 1: are solvable. It's just a question of getting the regulations

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Speaker 1: to incentivize people to make better use of existing infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and not necessarily building new infrastructure. And do you think

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Speaker 1: that this could save a lot of money in the

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Speaker 1: long run, because I know there's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk about how transmission lines are really underinvested in Well, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think time and money. Because so I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that this would solve all the transmission problem, because obviously

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have renewables in areas where there's no transmission line,

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Speaker 1: so you need to get a line out there. But

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying is it it could definitely reduce the

430
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: amount of investment needed, and it could reduce the time

431
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: because you don't. You would require much less permiting. Since

432
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, energy storage doesn't have any emissions, it can

433
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: be located anywhere. It could really optimize the transmission lines.

434
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: And then you you add to that artificial intelligence to

435
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: optimize the charging and the discharging. Um you're gonna have

436
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: a much better system. So I have absolutely no doubt

437
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: that this can save a lot of time and money.

438
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: And do you see these as potentially being kind of

439
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: companies unto themselves? And do you see them sitting under

440
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: a lot of electricity providers as a part of their portfolio.

441
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: A lot of the issues surrounding energy storage is who

442
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: gets to own it? Is a degenerator, is a distributor?

443
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: Until today, you know, for example, you didn't get the

444
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: tax breaks the investment tax credit or a production tax

445
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: credit that applies to solar or wind for standalone energy storage.

446
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: So a lot of projects include energy storage with solar

447
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: or wind that may or not be optimal. So it's

448
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's best just to say, look,

449
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: all technologies have more or less the same subsidy and

450
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: allow people to use the one that is best. You know,

451
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: I think the meat key point will be, you know,

452
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: regulators should allow as many people as possible to have them.

453
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: They should allow utilities to rate base them. And I

454
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: think that you know, you shouldn't artificially say no only

455
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: generators can have it, our only distribution companies can have it.

456
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: I think make it widely available to all. So a S,

457
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: I would definitely say, see yourself as innovators and are

458
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: looking at opportunities to change, grow, improve the electricity sector

459
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: makes you fit in quite well in Silicon Valley, which

460
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: then brings me to Google. So there was a recent

461
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: announcement that a S would be providing electricity to Google,

462
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: providing green electricity to Google. Can you tell me a

463
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: little bit more about that relationship? That was a very interesting,

464
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: let's say process, and it really was a partnership because

465
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: this wasn't like a just the response to you know,

466
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: our FP or a bid. It was really we went

467
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: to Google and we said, look, we have these capabilities.

468
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: You want renewable energy. But what is happening is you know,

469
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: you have to cut through really what I would say

470
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: reality and a little bit of hype. A lot of

471
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: people say they're green, but the truth is they overpurchase

472
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: renewables certain hours and certain hours are taking non renewable

473
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: energy from the grid. So what we proposed to Google

474
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: was for their data centers here in Virginia was to

475
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: have seven carbon free energy and that we would provide

476
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: that for ten years. So that is very complex optimization

477
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: problem because like what is the optimal mix of solar, wind,

478
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: hydro and energy storage. Because you can do it, but

479
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: the question is how can you do it cost effectively?

480
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: So it takes a tremendous amount of you know, mathematical

481
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: modeling takes a tremendous amount of knowing all the different

482
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: energy sources. So we co developed this, I would say

483
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: to a large degree, and really what came out optimal

484
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: was Okay, we can net this on an hourly basis,

485
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: So that's unique. Nobody nets this on an hourly basis.

486
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: Usually they netted on a yearly basis. Now it's not

487
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: a carbon free, it's carbon free because quite frankly, that

488
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 1: was the price point that they wanted. Now this we are,

489
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: you know, in talks with other technology companies to provide

490
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: similar products. We were not only the first, but I

491
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: still think we're the only ones who can really provide it,

492
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: who really have the modeling capabilities today to do this,

493
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just you know, giving them clean energy,

494
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: was giving them something new. And that's what we're really,

495
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: I think most interested in doing. You know, out in Kauai,

496
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: for example, we did the first really sort of DC

497
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: paired solar energy storage that would give them baseload capabilities,

498
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: So basically saying, look, you want to have solar power

499
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: around the clock, how can you do that efficiently? And

500
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: allowed them to retire a lot of their diesel plans.

501
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: So that's what's what we're about. But we work with

502
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: the clients. We don't we don't just come and say,

503
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: look what you need is X. You know, we come

504
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: and say, look, this is an interesting idea of what

505
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: do you want. So if we have other contracts that

506
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: are similar of you know, sort of twenty four seven

507
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: carbon free energy with other firms, you know, it might

508
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: be slightly different than what we did with Google, but

509
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: it's it's a very good partnership and you know, we

510
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: um you know, we're very happy we're working on several

511
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,479
Speaker 1: things with them and that they chose us as as

512
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: a counterpart too to work these things. I certainly hope

513
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: you got to visit the Kawaii project. I haven't and

514
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: I've never been to Hawaii, but we have on the

515
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: island of Kauai. We worked with the Kauai Island Utility

516
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: Cooperative and you know, we did that solar energy storage

517
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: sort of baseload project. The military very interested in it

518
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: because the weakest link in the supply chain for them

519
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: was was the Navy having to have ship diesel to

520
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: say missile plants out in the Pacific. So if you

521
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: could do solar plus storage, that makes that missile base

522
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: more robust. So we're working on something with them. We're

523
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: also doing another one now also in Kauai with the

524
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: k I U S which is combining pump hydrome, wind,

525
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: solar and energy storage. And you know, we have been

526
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: very active in Hawaii, not only with k I you see,

527
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: but also with HICO helping them to become carbon free

528
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: and we've done that building solar wind energy storage. So

529
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: these these partnerships are exactly what what we think is

530
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: our sweet spot. You know, it's it's not selling a

531
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: commoditized product, but it's really creating the most value for

532
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: our clients through combinations of technology, inventing technology, and you know,

533
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: I think this is a very good place to be today.

534
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: But I love that you brought up pump hydro because

535
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: that's one of those technologies that's been around for a

536
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: while as a storage technology and is pretty effective. While

537
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: you referenced this at the beginning of today's conversation, you

538
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: talk about how batteries are really useful for helping with

539
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: intermittency on the daily or maybe even a weekly basis.

540
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: But then there's the seasonality issue. And if you're going

541
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: to be supplying seven, three and sixty five days energy,

542
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: what are the technologies where you see the most potential

543
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: for us to really work on this seasonality issue. For example,

544
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: pump hydros is great where you already have a reservoir

545
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: and you know you can you know, optimize it now. Now,

546
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: the truth is, for you know, shorter term fluctuations, it's

547
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: much more efficient to store electrons than be pumping molecules

548
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: up and down. But again, it you know, a reservoir

549
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: does provide interseasonal storage. You could also do that again

550
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: with a h'd gin fuel. That's where I think hydrogen

551
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: could be now. Again, it would be a hydrogen fuel

552
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: that you don't have to keep cry you know, so

553
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: cryogenically because you waste a lot of energy on that.

554
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: So I think that you know that part, you know

555
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: that there are various ways that society can go. It

556
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: has to take to take a decision. And then then

557
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 1: decision really is, you know, are we going to invest

558
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: in in hydrogen based fuels? Are you going to have

559
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: to subsidize it because it's it's not that cost effective

560
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: if you have to store it genically for long periods

561
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: of time, or do we go to something like modularor

562
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: nuclear because nuclear does is you know, is baseload and

563
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: nuclear you know, would solve that problem to a large extent,

564
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: but you know, there's a lot of pushback uh nimby.

565
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: Nobody wants nuclear plants in their neighborhood. So, you know,

566
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: those are the questions. I think that the Secretary Kerry

567
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: was really saying, you know, we have to what are

568
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: the technologies that they're going to close that gap? Do

569
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: you think a yes is closed on doing modular nuclear? No?

570
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Quite for any of that. We've we've always shied away

571
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: from from nuclear because we think that uh it um

572
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of resistance. It's going to be very

573
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: hard to um to get the permity, certainly for the

574
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: first ones. Uh on the other hand, you know, it's

575
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: it's the large traditional nuclear plants have had tremendous cost overruns.

576
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: It's been very expensive to do um and some of

577
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: the older nuclear plants are not economic. So, you know,

578
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: having said that, you know, nuclear is an important element

579
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: to keep carbon free uh baseload energy. So again that's

580
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: that's an area that we've decided not to not to enter.

581
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: I mentioned that just because I think that it might

582
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: be part of the solution to get to net zero.

583
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you think that I'd missed

584
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: that you want to discuss. I think just you know,

585
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: what an exciting time it is to be in the

586
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: sector and the electricity sector, and how in terms of

587
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: attracting talent, there's never been a better time because the

588
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: young generation is very mission driven and they want to

589
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: make a positive difference, and I think that, you know,

590
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: many of them feel that the renewable sector, the energy

591
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: sector in total, is a place that they can make

592
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: that difference and get meeting. So it's an interesting time

593
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: to to be in the sector. And I think it's

594
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: you know, we're just starting this this traumatic change and

595
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: it's going to involve not only building carbon free energy,

596
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 1: but also changing how we use it. You know, don't

597
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: underestimate the use of AI and digital and smart grids

598
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: to optimize our energy use well, and you talk about

599
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: attracting talent, so you know, when we were talking about

600
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: the targets, when I think of targets, I think about

601
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: the fact that my kids are going to be roughly

602
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: the age I am now when that happens. Um so

603
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: on the way there, we need to attract as many

604
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: people into solving these solutions as possible, and is a

605
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: really exciting time. What are the skills that you look

606
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: for in order to be in the electricity sector? This

607
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: is obviously a space that has attracted engineers all along,

608
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: but what are the other things that you think are

609
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: really required in order to make you competitive today's day

610
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: and age. What we're really looking for, I would say,

611
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: is people who have great intellectual curiosity because you're going

612
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: to have to be constantly learning things. And also people

613
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: who are able to I would say, have the open

614
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: minded listen to the clients to find innovative solutions. So

615
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: it's not just a matter of you know, being the

616
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: best engineer, because if you sort of stick to tried

617
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: and true solutions, that's not what's required, is really required,

618
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: is how can I come up with something new. It

619
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be totally, but it really could be

620
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: how you integrate things, And that's what we're doing. You know,

621
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: we really feel that we have this suite of capabilities

622
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: and the very best developers were having really they're able

623
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: to bring these to bear to solve the client's problem.

624
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: So decarbonization, it's you'd reference that we are going to

625
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: need to well that the energy transition can't do at all,

626
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: and that there are a lot of areas, including some

627
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: of the really hard to abate sectors, that are going

628
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: to need to turn if we want to avoid not

629
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: just one point five or two, but higher temperature warming

630
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: on this planet. So I once heard Christiana Figures. She

631
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: said that the energy transition is already happening and it

632
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: has so much momentum that we really do need to

633
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: focus on a lot of these other areas like agriculture

634
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: that just don't have the wealth of solutions right now.

635
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: So outside of the electricity space, which you know so well,

636
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: what are the areas that you're watching most closely when

637
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: it comes to decarbonization, We think the next one really

638
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: would be transportation and they're going to be very intertwined.

639
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: As I said, electric vehicles are in a sense mobile batteries,

640
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: and they have to become part of the smart grid

641
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: in terms of how we manage it. So I would

642
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: say transportation. Now there are some areas, like say aircraft,

643
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: long haul aircraft, which will be more difficult. I mean

644
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: there you might have to go to some sort of

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00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: synthetic fuel or something that the whole processes is in

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00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: the zero. I think in terms of agriculture, there are

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00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: many things that can be done to make sure that

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00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: it's as sustainable as as possible. Now, you know, the

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00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: reality is that the world can feed itself today. You know,

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00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: we didn't fall into the sort of club of Rome

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00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: Malthusian trap. But it has a lot to do with

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Speaker 1: nitrogen and the fact that nitrogen based fertilizers. So there's

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00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: a whole point now I think of thinking how can

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Speaker 1: you make agriculture more sustainable, And it's not only a

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Speaker 1: question of methane and CEO two emissions, but it's also

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00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: an issue of you know, making sure that the soil

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00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: has all the nutrients and capability to for you know,

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00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: long term farming. So agriculture I think will probably be

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00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: the most difficult area. But I really like that she

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00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: brings that up because a lot of people, I think

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00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: rather simplistically of the problem and just say, well, if

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00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: we band burning coal, problems solved, and the truth is no,

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00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, it's going to take an all around effort

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00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: and who knows. I mean, maybe we come up with

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00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: an efficient way of capturing carbon from the atmosphere that

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00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 1: might be needed, but you know right now there's no

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00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: cost efficient technology to do that. Well, on that note,

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00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: here's to innovation and you know, hoping to see continued

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Speaker 1: innovation from a S and then just across the electricity industry.

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Speaker 1: So thank you very much for your time and for

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Speaker 1: sharing your insights today regarding where you see things now

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00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: and how you see things changing in the future. Thanks Andreis,

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00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Data. It was a real pleasure.

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Speaker 1: This week's show was produced by Ava Gonzalezi Slaw and

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00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,440
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00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,719
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00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,040
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00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,279
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00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,680
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00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,680
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