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Speaker 1: I was maybe six ft above my body looking back

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Speaker 1: at myself, but the me that was floating felt like

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Speaker 1: the real me. And I looked back at myself and

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Speaker 1: I saw my body laying there, and it was like

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Speaker 1: looking at a photograph. Hello, and welcome to this week's

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Speaker 1: edition of Cash and the Creepies. Today, I welcome Graham Nichols,

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Speaker 1: expert on out of body experiences, author and board member

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Speaker 1: at the Rhyme Research Center. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: being here. Thanks for being my podcast. Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, really fascinated with out of body experiences. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me this is something I ask every guest. Do

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Speaker 1: you believe in the supernatural? I tend to see it

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Speaker 1: as the natural, I guess I tend to see it

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Speaker 1: as an extension of the natural, if you like, So,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily call it supernatural, but yeah, that works too,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, what would you call it? Just like it's

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Speaker 1: the natural part of things that we can't see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just think it's that we haven't fully understood everything

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Speaker 1: that's possible in the world yet. That's kind of how

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Speaker 1: I tend to look at it, Like our brains can't

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Speaker 1: comprehend it. Now. I just think sort of scientifically. I

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Speaker 1: guess we call things supernatural until we scientifically understand it,

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Speaker 1: and then we just call it the natural because I

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Speaker 1: guess if you go back in history, we used to

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Speaker 1: call anything that was sort of unusual. We used to

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Speaker 1: call getting ill supernatural, didn't we because we people used

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Speaker 1: to say it was like a spirit taking over your

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Speaker 1: body or something, and that's what being sick was or

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Speaker 1: something like that. So I guess how I tend to

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Speaker 1: look at it now is that um as we start

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Speaker 1: to understand all those things, it just becomes a part

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Speaker 1: of our understanding of the world. I guess we have

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Speaker 1: different opinions on how the world works, from religion to

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Speaker 1: science too, parapsychology and all those kinds of things so

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Speaker 1: interesting because I feel like I find this supernatural. That's

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Speaker 1: just like the most umbrella term for what I'm fascinated

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Speaker 1: in is the stuff that is not yet explainable or

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Speaker 1: just like you can't really see it. It's intangible. You

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Speaker 1: can't hold it, and maybe you can't prove it scientifically,

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Speaker 1: but you feel it. And once you feel something or

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Speaker 1: you see like an apparition or for me, I've seen

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Speaker 1: like lights in the sky, like I've seen it. You

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Speaker 1: can't really explain it when I try to. I'm aware

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Speaker 1: that it sounds crazy as all hell, but I saw it,

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Speaker 1: so it's real. Yeah, I think I think we can

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Speaker 1: probably deal with these things scientifically. That's the interesting thing.

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Speaker 1: I tend to. I tend to be quite drawn to

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Speaker 1: the science, and I want to I want to do

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Speaker 1: our body experiences and explore ghosts and apparitions and all

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things in the context of science, and

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Speaker 1: then kind of maybe one day we'll kind of see

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Speaker 1: those things as normal in it. I think so too,

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Speaker 1: And that's like why I love science. I love science.

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Speaker 1: So something that you're an expert at out of body experiences?

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Speaker 1: What is an out of body experience? Okay? So, and

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Speaker 1: our body experience, from my perspective, is probably when your

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Speaker 1: consciousness or you could call it a spirit or something

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Speaker 1: like that just depends on how you look at it,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's when your consciousness experiences the world

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Speaker 1: from a vantage point or a place away from your

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Speaker 1: physical body. So it's literally like I feel like me,

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Speaker 1: everything about me is normal, but I might be floating

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Speaker 1: above myself looking back at my body. Like my very

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Speaker 1: first experience I was maybe six ft above my body

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Speaker 1: looking back at myself. Um, but the me that was

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Speaker 1: floating felt like the real meat. And I looked back

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Speaker 1: at myself and I saw my body laying there, and

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Speaker 1: it was like looking at a photograph. It would it

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Speaker 1: look like me. Everything about it was kind of me.

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Speaker 1: But then at the same time, it didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: that was the real meat. It felt like the one

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Speaker 1: floating was the real meat. So that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: it's like. It's literally like your sense of self, everything

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Speaker 1: that you identify as you is not associated with your body.

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Speaker 1: It's another location. So you can travel anywhere in the world.

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Speaker 1: Theoretically it doesn't always work out quite like that, but

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Speaker 1: you can go to different locations all around the world,

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Speaker 1: and you can even go into other levels of reality basically.

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Speaker 1: So it's it allowed allows you to directly experience and

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Speaker 1: explore what it is to be a spiritual being or

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Speaker 1: what the spiritual actually means or the supernatural actually means.

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Speaker 1: You can have direct experience of it. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I see it as. Okay, so when you're the first

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Speaker 1: time this happened, how old we are. The first time

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Speaker 1: it ever happened was a spontaneous experience when I was

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Speaker 1: twelve um and that one only lasted a few seconds,

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Speaker 1: and I found myself maybe half a mile from where

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Speaker 1: I lived, and I was just above the ground. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't asleep when it happened or anything like that. I

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Speaker 1: was just relaxing, and suddenly it was like a click,

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Speaker 1: and I found myself at this other location, floating above

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Speaker 1: the ground, basically like a kind of living ghost. It

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Speaker 1: was just floating there in the middle of the street.

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Speaker 1: Was kind of like, what the hell is happening? And

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Speaker 1: then it kind of ended almost as quickly as it started.

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Speaker 1: But then I heard that there was this thing called

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Speaker 1: out a Body Experiences about a year later, and that

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Speaker 1: was when I learned to do it kind of devoted

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Speaker 1: myself too in my mind, which I've never experienced this,

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Speaker 1: but I think I've had, like I've had some weird

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Speaker 1: feelings like that. It's usually like right when I'm falling

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Speaker 1: asleep or meditating where I feel very much like It's

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Speaker 1: not a very glamorous way to put it, but this

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Speaker 1: is just how I saw it. Like our body, like

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Speaker 1: our skin is like the housing for the like cosmos

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Speaker 1: that live inside of us, like the spirit and so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of gross, but this is like what I

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Speaker 1: have deduced non scientifically, but it's like the sausage casing,

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Speaker 1: but instead of sausage inside, it's my soul. Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense? That's a good way for it. But like

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Speaker 1: the soul that's inside this theoretical spiritual sausage that's floating

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Speaker 1: to me, that's like who you really are. And then

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Speaker 1: like I feel like having actually like your spirit and

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Speaker 1: your body come together. That's like being present in this

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Speaker 1: life on this plane. But I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: times where I will like look in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, ship, I forgot that's what you're Your

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Speaker 1: housing looks like, Like I'll totally forget what I look

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Speaker 1: like until I see a mirror and I'm like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: so very much like understand the spirit being a separate

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Speaker 1: entity than the body, but having them be in two

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Speaker 1: separate locations is something I've never experienced. So like, when

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Speaker 1: that happened to you, were you thinking about this place?

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Speaker 1: Did you like this street? Or you just showed up

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Speaker 1: on a street floating just some random near to where

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Speaker 1: I went to school. So I think probably the reason

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Speaker 1: I went there was because it was somewhere kind of

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Speaker 1: familiar to me, somewhere that I sort of knew well, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe I had an emotional connection to it. I

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Speaker 1: think often where you go in the out body experiences

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Speaker 1: is to do with how emotionally linked you are to

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Speaker 1: that place. Sometimes not always, but I think the majority

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Speaker 1: of the times that's kind of how it happens. So

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Speaker 1: in that first experience, I went there probably because it

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Speaker 1: was familiar to me and known to me and that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um, And did it freak you out?

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Speaker 1: It did freak me out. Yeah, I didn't know, not

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Speaker 1: not hugely, because I guess rewinding a bit. When I

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Speaker 1: was about five and early in my life I had

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Speaker 1: apparition experiences and things like that. So I've had other

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Speaker 1: God tell me about that and go on, you can't

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Speaker 1: just like pass over that, okay girl, m okay. Well

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Speaker 1: that that was basically the first paranormal supernatural thing that

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Speaker 1: ever happen. And I was five years old. I were

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Speaker 1: around that age. I basically woke up in the night,

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Speaker 1: went into the hallway of the flat that I grew

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Speaker 1: up in, um, and basically in the hallway there was

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Speaker 1: this tall figure. It filled the entire kind of height

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Speaker 1: of the doorway that kind of led out of the flat. Um.

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Speaker 1: It looked quite inhuman in a sense. It was humanoid,

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Speaker 1: but it had it's really hard to kind of describe it.

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Speaker 1: It was just very otherworldly. It kind of almost I

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Speaker 1: guess now I would probably say something almost like a

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Speaker 1: shaman or shamanic something like that, kind of almost like

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Speaker 1: it was wearing a kind of costume or something of

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Speaker 1: that description. Um. And I just sort of looked at it,

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Speaker 1: and that really terrified me. Obviously, I've never seen anything

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Speaker 1: like it. I remember going down onto the ground because

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Speaker 1: it sort of gave me some solidity, and then turned

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Speaker 1: around to try and sort of call out to my parents, UM,

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Speaker 1: but I was too scared. I couldn't make any sound, basically.

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Speaker 1: And then I looked back and it was still there

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Speaker 1: and disappeared or anything, and it just and then kind

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Speaker 1: of around it. There seemed to be almost like a

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Speaker 1: suggestion that it was like standing on a threshold. It

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Speaker 1: was almost like there was an opening to some of

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Speaker 1: her reality or something behind it. So it was a

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Speaker 1: really crazy experience. I don't know how how else to

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Speaker 1: put it in terrified you want to go? Did you

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Speaker 1: want to go into this other realm because I would, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe not at five, but like today, i'd be like,

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Speaker 1: let's go, let's go into there. But I guess at

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Speaker 1: five years old, I probably wouldn't feel the way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at five, I was just scared. But but then when

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Speaker 1: the outer body experiences happened, it was something that I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to explore. So that's when I got hold

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Speaker 1: of a book on the subject, and then I literally

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Speaker 1: I decided to dedicate a year because I read that

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Speaker 1: it took a long time to learn often, so I

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Speaker 1: decided to dedicate a year to systematically learning to have

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Speaker 1: um have those experiences. So it actually took me six months,

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Speaker 1: but I I practiced every single night for that whole period.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know where that dedication came from. This

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Speaker 1: is like thirteen and a half fourteen, But I just

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Speaker 1: really wanted to do it. Okay, I have so many questions. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the first time it happened kind of freaky quick.

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Speaker 1: But then you're like, I want to go into this.

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Speaker 1: I want to learn how to do it and dive

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Speaker 1: into it. How does how do you begin to teach

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Speaker 1: yourself to have an out of body experience? Do you

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Speaker 1: train yourself? Is it like like training on muscles at

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Speaker 1: like vocal training, Like how do you just have to practice?

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Speaker 1: You just have to It's kind of like self hypnosis.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I did was I went and I

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Speaker 1: found a book on subject. But the only book I

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Speaker 1: could find was quite scientific, So it was more saying, ah,

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Speaker 1: these experiences real That was more where it was coming from.

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Speaker 1: But in the back of the book it had a

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Speaker 1: few really simple techniques. The technique was just that you

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Speaker 1: imagined you were floating on a cloud basically, and you

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Speaker 1: had to keep imagining that. The idea was that eventually

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Speaker 1: it would sort of trigger your unconscious mind to realize

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Speaker 1: that that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to

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Speaker 1: have an outward experience. Luckily we have much better techniques

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Speaker 1: than that now, but at the time that was all

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Speaker 1: I had. So I worked with this technique over and over,

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Speaker 1: did it every single night, and then eventually, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: led to this. Uh. I was almost at the point

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Speaker 1: of giving up. Actually, I was kind of like, this

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Speaker 1: isn't this isn't working. This is kind of like I've

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Speaker 1: been doing this for months, if there's no point it's

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Speaker 1: not going to work. I was sort of really disillusioned

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Speaker 1: with it, and then so I sort of let go,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't sort of tensing up. I was sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to make it happen anymore. I just sort

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Speaker 1: of let go. And when I let go, it just

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Speaker 1: like this huge energy went through me, which was a

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Speaker 1: very positive energy. It felt very good. It was like

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Speaker 1: a kind of just huge release of tension and stress

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Speaker 1: and everything. It was just all kind of surge through me.

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Speaker 1: And then I just that was when I found myself

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Speaker 1: above my body, looking at the what looked like a

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Speaker 1: photograph of myself. It was very still and kind of

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Speaker 1: didn't seem alive in a sense, whereas the me that

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Speaker 1: was outside of my body felt full of energy. It

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Speaker 1: was almost like there was energy radiating off my body.

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Speaker 1: The whole room was kind of lit up from the energy. UM,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't move very much. It was quite limited

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Speaker 1: in that first experience. It was almost like I could

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Speaker 1: only rotate kind of sort of like that. But um.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I just felt completely alive

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Speaker 1: and completely energized. And then I came back to my

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Speaker 1: body and I was just Yeah. From that point on,

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Speaker 1: it was like the floodgates opened and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I could do it pretty much whenever I want it. Then,

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Speaker 1: like you could do it. I'm not going to ask

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Speaker 1: you to, but like if you wanted to, you could

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Speaker 1: like go and do that, Like after we have a chat,

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Speaker 1: you can go have an out of body experience. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a tend to I tend to say, when the

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Speaker 1: conditions are right. So if you if you think about, um,

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Speaker 1: something like being creative for example, when you know, when

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Speaker 1: when you feel like you can do artwork or do

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Speaker 1: something like that and you just feel like you're in

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Speaker 1: that right head space kind of thing, I tend to

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Speaker 1: think it's similar to like being in the zone, you know. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, if I'm in the right kind of condition

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Speaker 1: and everything feels right, then yeah, I can do it.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes you just you know, like with anything you

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Speaker 1: don't feel quite right and it doesn't doesn't work. But

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Speaker 1: but yeah, most of the time when it's kind of

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Speaker 1: feeling right, if I force it, if I try sort

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Speaker 1: of too hard, odd than the quality of the experience

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Speaker 1: will be quite lowing quality. But if I allow it, yes,

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Speaker 1: then it's better. I think that's true in just life

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Speaker 1: in general. I've started approaching life in general exactly what

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Speaker 1: you just said, where you stop trying, Like I do

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Speaker 1: believe that hard work and practicing something can help develop

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Speaker 1: a skill, but I do think when you try to

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Speaker 1: force something that's just unforceable, like an experience like that,

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Speaker 1: or even making like a really like for me, as

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Speaker 1: making a song that's like really emotional, Like I can

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Speaker 1: sit there and try all day, but you never know

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Speaker 1: when it's going to come. It almost comes when you

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Speaker 1: stop trying so damn hard, which is so hard to

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Speaker 1: stop trying when you're like, no, but I've tasted the magic.

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Speaker 1: I want to have it, but you have to. So

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Speaker 1: I've started looking at life like it like a wild

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Speaker 1: tiger and I'm a cat lover. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: this is going to make any sense, but in my mind,

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Speaker 1: it's like you have to, like you can't be thirsty

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Speaker 1: for the magic, like if they're going to interact with you,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, like the universe, God, energy, the wild tiger,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, you can't want it too bad because

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Speaker 1: I feel like you want something too bad that energy

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Speaker 1: repels whatever it is that you want so badly, and

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Speaker 1: like you said, when you have to kind of let

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Speaker 1: go of it and just allow it to happen. That's

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Speaker 1: when the really magical stuff happens. I think, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: I agree, and I think that's actually one of the

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Speaker 1: key secrets without body experiences. I think if someone is

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Speaker 1: trying to learn, they need to maintain a kind of

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Speaker 1: positive mental attitude. They need to be really kind of excited,

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Speaker 1: look at it like they're exploring and trying to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to discover something new and keep that kind of openness

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Speaker 1: and that excitement, and if they do that, then the

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Speaker 1: experience will unfold quite naturally. But um what, unfortunately, what

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Speaker 1: most people do is they tend to kind of get

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Speaker 1: this idea of the word projection. I did it myself.

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Speaker 1: I had this idea that it was all about will

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Speaker 1: power and projection and you know, I had to kind

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Speaker 1: of make it happen kind of thing. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's completely the wrong way to think about it. So

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Speaker 1: when I let go of that, that's when the experiences

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Speaker 1: really started happening. So now I tend to allow the

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Speaker 1: experiences to happen when everything feels really right and good,

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Speaker 1: and I'll just see where it goes. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of go with the flow a lot more. Now. I

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Speaker 1: love that I'm writing down and allow it. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's like the name of the game of my

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Speaker 1: life right now. I'm just every time I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I'm doing or what to do, I'm just like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna start trying to figure it out. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: sit back, I'm gonna allow it to play out. But

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Speaker 1: I have like a super open heart, which also leads

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Speaker 1: me to being super fucking gullible but trying to like

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Speaker 1: find those boundaries in my life. But I yeah, allowing

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Speaker 1: it to happen, which I'm such a control freak because

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Speaker 1: I go like O, C, D, D H, you name it.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like have so much wild energy. So just

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Speaker 1: like sitting back and allowing things to happen does not

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Speaker 1: necessarily come naturally to me, Like I like to get

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Speaker 1: ship done and do it. I think the thing is,

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Speaker 1: I think you can explore all these things and explore

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Speaker 1: these avenues of how life and these kinds of experiences

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Speaker 1: where they take you, um, But I think it's just

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Speaker 1: being open to letting them take you somewhere. So you're

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Speaker 1: being active in that sense, but you're not trying to

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Speaker 1: say I have to go down this avenue or I

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Speaker 1: have to do this particular thing, you're kind of allowing

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Speaker 1: the experience to kind of take you in a particular direction.

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Speaker 1: To give an example, in my EARLI out of body experiences,

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Speaker 1: I was often trying to I had this idea that

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Speaker 1: I needed to perfect everything, so I needed to be

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Speaker 1: able to move and control every movement that I made

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Speaker 1: and be completely in control of the experience. And so

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Speaker 1: actually just going across the room in a straight line

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Speaker 1: was really difficult. There's people tend to experience. They often

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Speaker 1: call them astral tides. So it's almost like this energy

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Speaker 1: that kind of moves through the space, and as you're

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Speaker 1: trying to move, it can kind of make you drift

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Speaker 1: in a different direction or something like that, and I

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Speaker 1: I would try to go against that. I would try

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Speaker 1: and go against the grain and try to say no,

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Speaker 1: I want to go from here to that, and and

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Speaker 1: doing that actually led me to waste a lot of

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Speaker 1: amazing experiences. If I'd actually let myself go with that tide,

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Speaker 1: or go with that energy and just see where I go,

339
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Speaker 1: then it probably would have materialized into an amazing experience.

340
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Speaker 1: But I was too caught up in controlling it that

341
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Speaker 1: I was kind of missing the forest for the trees

342
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Speaker 1: a little bit in those early days, but then I

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Speaker 1: just started allowing the experiences to unfold, and then I

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Speaker 1: would find myself, I don't know, in Cuba or like,

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Speaker 1: you know, complete all different parts of the world, or

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Speaker 1: or even in like these other levels of reality. They

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00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: seem to be you know, like um beautiful natural environments

348
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Speaker 1: that very much like what people describe in sort of

349
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Speaker 1: heavenly type things. And then you know, all different kinds

350
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Speaker 1: of experiences and situations where I would seemed to see

351
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Speaker 1: something from the past or see something from the future,

352
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Speaker 1: these kinds of things. So the experience is just completely

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Speaker 1: open to so many possibilities. Really, so do you think

354
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Speaker 1: it's almost like a little bit of time travel because

355
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Speaker 1: time is relative little like inter dement Chanel Just like

356
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Speaker 1: I'm trying to wrap my brain around it, because this

357
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: is something I really have no experience with, but it

358
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Speaker 1: just kind of sounds like when you let go of

359
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Speaker 1: your physical constraint of your body, you can kind of

360
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Speaker 1: go anywhere, but you have to ride the astral tie.

361
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Speaker 1: I'm writing that down to that's going in a song.

362
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Speaker 1: I've never heard that before, and I love it is.

363
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Speaker 1: They're all gonna be like tattooed on my foot and

364
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Speaker 1: like a song, so very inspiring. But like, have you

365
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: ever been to Cuba in your body? Or just see that? Ye?

366
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Speaker 1: See that? Actually, that experience I was thinking of was

367
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Speaker 1: connected to someone who was very close to my family.

368
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Speaker 1: It was from Cuba, um, and she died, and quite

369
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Speaker 1: soon after she died. It was literally the last thing

370
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Speaker 1: I've written in my diary. I had an outabuny experience

371
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Speaker 1: and I went to Cuba. I worked out it was

372
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Speaker 1: Cuba because of the way it looked from above and

373
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Speaker 1: like all you know, the the coastal imagery and all

374
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Speaker 1: of that kind of thing. And I worked out where

375
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: I was, and I was thinking, why have I been

376
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Speaker 1: drawn to Cuba? But then I opened my diary, which

377
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 1: I have kept a diary since it was fourteen of

378
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Speaker 1: most of my experiences. UM, so I started. I opened

379
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Speaker 1: it to write this experience down, and there was the

380
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Speaker 1: entry about the death of the family friend. And then

381
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Speaker 1: I realized us she was born in Cuba, And suddenly

382
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: it all kind of made sense that it was almost like, um,

383
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 1: it was almost like a connection with her, or some

384
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Speaker 1: kind of message from her, if you like, or something

385
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 1: like that. So interesting is there a world where it's like,

386
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Speaker 1: because I've done some hypnosis before but never reached what

387
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Speaker 1: you're talking about, But is there science that backs out

388
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Speaker 1: of body experience? I just like, I have no idea. Well,

389
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: actually that's something I'm really passionate about as well. Um

390
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: there is there are some researchers who have done work

391
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Speaker 1: in the past. Um there was a guy called Alex

392
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Speaker 1: Tennis who did research in the sort of eighties and

393
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Speaker 1: with a research of all Carlos osis from that VIEA

394
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: and they did experiments where they tried to sort of

395
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Speaker 1: he would try to go and see targets and things

396
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Speaker 1: like that. And then there's a researcher in Italy at

397
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Speaker 1: the moment called Patricio Trisoldi who is doing research same

398
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: kind of thing, looking at seeing targets and things like that.

399
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: And then the Rhyme Research Center. I've done research with

400
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: them looking at trying to again trying to see targets

401
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: and things like that at a distance. So we did

402
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: like about in weeks of different targets and things, and

403
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: then I would try to have an experience or I

404
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: tried different techniques not just outable the experiences. I tried

405
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: to remote viewing. I tried different methodologies. I used sensory deprivation,

406
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: mild sensory deprivation, all different things. UM. I have used tanks.

407
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: In that particular instance, I used gangs felt, which is

408
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: where you wear kind of headphones that play white noise

409
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: or pink noise, and then you have kind of ping

410
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: pong balls over your eyes, like half pink pom balls.

411
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: So and then you have a red light in your eyes.

412
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: The reason for this is it the red light make

413
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: sure pupils dilate. But then you can only see this

414
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: uniform red glow because of the dome over your eyes.

415
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: And then what happens is your brain starts looking for information,

416
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: so you start getting psychic information coming in. UM. So

417
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: it's a way that you can take a very ordinary

418
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: person off the street and give them a mild psychic experience.

419
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: So they've used it in a lot of research. So

420
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Speaker 1: that's really interesting to me. So if you take the

421
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: average person, do you think every person has some sort

422
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: of psychic ability? Yeah, basically yes, because I think so

423
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: too the same way I think every person is an

424
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: artist if they allow themselves to explore the avenue. But

425
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 1: I guess I would a wonder like what was produced

426
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: by all of these things you did? Well? It shows

427
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: what they do is they create a statistic on how

428
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,479
Speaker 1: accurate it was. And basically the research shows that, um,

429
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: people who go into the laboratory, even an average person

430
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: does about six six to eight above chance. So what

431
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 1: so if they were guessing, they would say get sort

432
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: if they if they're doing the gang Spelled experiment with

433
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 1: the sensory deprivation, they get about thirty three percent, so

434
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: they go up. But when you control for people like

435
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: me or creative types probably someone like you as well, UM,

436
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: people will do significantly higher than that. So it gets

437
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: up to more like accuracy and things like that. Um,

438
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: the thing I was doing, the remote perceptions with that,

439
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: there's there's been incredible results with those kinds of studies.

440
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: And you know, I've also I've also had witnessed out

441
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: body experiences where there were people present and then I

442
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: had an out body experience and then we were able

443
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: to verify the information and things like that. Okay, wait wait, wait,

444
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: hold on, So you're being watched while you have an

445
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: out of body experience and being like studied those experience

446
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: is weren't so much the studying the experiences that I

447
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: did during that fourteen week study, those were those were

448
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: all under controlled conditions, so it was all completely blind

449
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: and I had to look at studies. And then I've

450
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: done some research with Dean Raiding at the Institute of

451
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: Noitic Sciences which was literally like something out of a film.

452
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: They put you in a still still box basically and

453
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of lock you in and that box is completely

454
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: magnetically shielded, so there's no frequencies or anything can go

455
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: into that box. And then I had to try and

456
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: affect things on a quantum levels, on the most minute

457
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: level of like physical reality. I had to try and

458
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 1: influence quantum effects on that kind of level. What does

459
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: that mean? Moving things or trying to like read what

460
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: someone else is thinking, moving things on a on a

461
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: quantum level. So have you heard of the double slit experiment? No,

462
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: tell me about it please. Well it's a really interesting

463
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: experiment because what they do is they've got these two

464
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: slits and they shoot photons particles of light through these

465
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: slits um with a thing called an interferometer. So it

466
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: just sends these particles through and if someone looks observes

467
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: the experiment, you get dots on either side like their particles. Right,

468
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: if someone is not observing the experiment, you get a

469
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: wave pattern. So basically the act of someone looking at

470
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: it seems to change reality on a quantum level um.

471
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: This is kind of what some people believe is going on,

472
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: that there's literally that we are like when we interact

473
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: with reality, reality changes um. So what the experiment deemed

474
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: Radium was doing was he was wondering if this could

475
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: happen on a psychic level, So could I affect reality

476
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: on a quantum level, on that really minute level of reality?

477
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: So could I cause a change in this like wave

478
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: or particle pattern that you get. So basically I was

479
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: in this box and I had to try and cause

480
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: the particles to deviate from how they were usually functioning.

481
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: And then he looked at the data statistically and would say, okay,

482
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: yes it worked or yes it didn't work. So he

483
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: found that overall with those experiments that it does work,

484
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: and that basically people can affect things on a quantum

485
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: level with their psychic ability. Basically, so that psychic ability

486
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: or do you think that's just energy? Because if you

487
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: take it to like physics, right, we're all energy. We

488
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: all have energy. So this might not make any sense.

489
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm really visual, but there's sound waves, right, So I

490
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: make sound as a job, so I see the sound waves,

491
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of imagining the light wave in a

492
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: more sense, like if it's going like this, so with

493
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: your mind, you made it kind of change direction, is

494
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Because that makes sense to me, because

495
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: even just having a positive attitude or being kind to

496
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: someone I feel like can change energetically your mood and

497
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: also the mood of someone else. So it only makes

498
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: sense that it's part of physics to me, like the

499
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: energy that you're putting out would affect the things that

500
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: are surrounding you, including sound waves, light waves. All of

501
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: that sounds like it makes perfect sense to me, But

502
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: I mean, is that far out. What a lot of

503
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: the scientists would say is that they don't divide all

504
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: these things up. I think a lot of the scientists

505
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: are starting to think that consciousness might be a fundamental

506
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: aspect of reality, that are our minds and our experience

507
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: of the world might be as much a part of

508
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: reality as light or sound or any of those things

509
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: that literally um. Some of the near def experience researchers

510
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: think that as we um when we have a near

511
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: deaf experience or an out body experience, or um or

512
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: when we die even that essentially it's like the filters

513
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: taken off. Suddenly we're able to experience reality for the

514
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: full spectrum of what it is. But while we're alive,

515
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: we're kind of almost our brains are almost filtering it out.

516
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: So there's Yeah, there's so much possibility for what could

517
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: be going on. Really, I know, it trips me out.

518
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: I don't know where to start with it. And then

519
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: I'm like and then I'm stuck in my little sausage

520
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: casing body and I forget, and then I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah,

521
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: you're like you're a woman, your freckles, you're blunt, like

522
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: the things like that. I'll totally forget until I see

523
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: a mirror. But that's neither your No there. I want

524
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: to ask you're about okay with the out of body experiences.

525
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: Is there like a place you're trying? Is there like

526
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: a goal I feel like I want to go into,

527
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: like the ether, I want to go to the moon,

528
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: or you just are open to wherever it's going to

529
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: take you. In the early place you wanted to Yeah,

530
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: in the early experiences, I was more focused on a

531
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: particular place that I wanted to go. But then I

532
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: guess a bit like what we were saying about intuition

533
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: and guidance and sort of trusting things. Um, I started

534
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: to find that when I allowed the experience to unfold,

535
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: more interesting things would happen, or more challenging things. Um.

536
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: You know. So I've generally just allowed the experience to

537
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: unfold as it does. I mean, um, sometimes I will

538
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: decide on trying to get to a particular location. Like

539
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: one of the experiments that I was doing with the

540
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: Institute of Noitic Sciences was I tried to go to

541
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: their laboratory in and out of body experience and influence

542
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: the experiment there from the UK. So I went there

543
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: physically when I did the actual experiments, but then afterwards

544
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: I tried to go back in an outbuddy experience and

545
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: influence it from the other side of the world. So

546
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: I don't know the results. How did that work. I

547
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: don't know the results of that yet, but that was

548
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: something that I tried to do. So well, then it's

549
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: like then I'm like, you're basically a living go yeah,

550
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: So then it rises, I mean, then the question arises

551
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: like well, our ghosts necessarily dead people are not necessarily

552
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: because people have seen me, and people see people while

553
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: out of body as well, usually in the form of

554
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: a kind of shadow figure, that's the most common. So

555
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: it will literally be like a figure that looks like

556
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: a shadow that's kind of moving around on its own.

557
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: That kind of thing. Interesting, So when you were a kid,

558
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: that maybe was like what you thought was a ghost,

559
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: or the apparition could have actually just been it's possiblesible

560
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: body experience. It's possible gateway didn't look like a shadow,

561
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: didn't have that quality. But then again, some people have

562
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: also not seen me, but some people have seen someone

563
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: having an outbuddy experience and seen them exactly as they

564
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: look in real life. So even down to being accurate

565
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: about the clothes that that person head on on that

566
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: particular day, which is really strange because that kind of

567
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: then you've got the thing that they were wearing clothes,

568
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: so they've had an out of body experience, gone to

569
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: a different location their clothes, so it kind of suggests

570
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: that maybe they're projecting some kind of image of themselves,

571
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: you know how they usually look as well as you know,

572
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: whatever else is going. So sometimes it's nondescript, like a shadow,

573
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: but other times it's like a full image, including like

574
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: clothes and details of their appearance and all of that.

575
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: That's so interesting because I'm so I have so many

576
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: ridiculous items of clothing, and I just wonder what I

577
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: like to think that when I pass away, when I die,

578
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: I either turned into a mushroom, or if I'm like

579
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: going to this ether place, I wonder what I'll be wearing.

580
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: Like I kind of hope I'll be like naked with

581
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: a sparkly cape on with just covered and glitter, and

582
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: I think I'll be turquoise, and I don't know. I

583
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: just wonder. I'm hoping. Basically, I'm asking you you are

584
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: confirming that that's probably what I'll look like in that

585
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: for life definitely perfect. That's how I needed to know

586
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: because I was reading something you'd said about how you

587
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: you were having an out about the experience and you

588
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: think maybe saw from a distance people that were like

589
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: in transition between life and death. Is that right? Oh? Yeah, yeah,

590
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: I had. They tend to call it a shared death

591
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: experience now where you literally see the kind of deaf

592
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: experience of someone else. Um, so in that in that experience.

593
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: So that's an example of kind of amazing stuff that

594
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: if you don't force the experience in any direction, that

595
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: can happen. So I found myself it was quite classical

596
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: about sort of a laughter life kind of type of environment.

597
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: It was very misty, kind of cloudy looked, you know,

598
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: literally like bellowing cloud. There was no up, no down.

599
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: You couldn't really see any surface or or sky or

600
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: it was just all this kind of misty environment and

601
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: around sort of about a hundred twos from where I was.

602
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: It's the best estimate I can give. There was a

603
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: group of people and they all seemed um, not stressed,

604
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: but confused. They all seemed like they didn't know what

605
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: was happening where they were, what was going on UM.

606
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: And as they sort of settled into the experience, as

607
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: they started to feel more in tune with what was

608
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: going on, UM, some of them, it was literally like

609
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: I was seeing their thoughts. It was like this sort

610
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: of um almost like a screen opened up around some

611
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: of their heads and I could see memories, thoughts, perceptions

612
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: of There was one guy in the foreground, like the

613
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: closest to me. UM. He was sort of an older guy. UM.

614
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: He seemed to be struggling, and I saw in the

615
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: imagery in his mind this man who had very like

616
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: leavery sort of skin, very dark tan. He looked like

617
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: he'd worked outside his whole life, very very kind of

618
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: looked like he'd been beaten by the sun for for

619
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: years kind of thing. Um. And I kind of interpreted

620
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: this as probably his father, and he was kind of

621
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: seen there seemed to be tension between him and his father,

622
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: and he was struggling with this tension, and slowly it

623
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: was kind of seemed to be getting resolved, um, but

624
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: he was he was struggling. And then I looked across

625
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: the group and then there was I think it was

626
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: a woman on the far side of the group, and

627
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: she was the complete opposite. She seemed to be really

628
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: open and light and she wasn't stressed by any of

629
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: the situation um, and she just basically just drifted off

630
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: into into the sort of mist, and it was like

631
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: it was like she transitioned. She just went from one

632
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: level to another, like quite smoothly and easily. So within

633
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the group, there were different levels of intensity of the

634
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: process they were going through, so it was literally like

635
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: what they call a life review. In near death experience research.

636
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: So they were going through this process and then they

637
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: drifted away. So after this experience, it was in the morning,

638
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: I came back from the out body experience and I

639
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: was kind of like this, I felt so real, This

640
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: was so like a peak experience. I tent to call

641
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: them like something that's like beyond anything I normally experienced.

642
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: And I remember, I think it was on the TV.

643
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: Later that day there was a news report that basically

644
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 1: said there'd been a plane crash in Norway, um on

645
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: an island off of Norway called Sabat, and a hundred

646
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: and forty people had died in that crash, which was

647
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: exactly the like the number that I'd seen, and most

648
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: of them were you Rainian or Russian kind of descent,

649
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: which is also what they look like to me and

650
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: the experience, so it was like I got a confirmation

651
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: in physical reality that what I'd seen in that experience

652
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: was a real experience. Basically, that's so interesting to me

653
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: because like for all the reasons, but I guess, witnessing

654
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: the crossing over of other souls, I have like so

655
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: many questions. First of all, when you're doing this, do

656
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: you have like feet and hands and like, are you like,

657
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: do you look like a person? Are you more just

658
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: like I feel like a ball of energy? Um. That

659
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: that depends. Sometimes I have a body, but more commonly

660
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: now I'm more like a ball of energy. Um. But

661
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: in the early it's it's interesting. I think that in

662
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: our early experiences, we tend to think of ourselves kind

663
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: of like um, as a body, as a person, So

664
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: you tend to experience yourself as a as a body.

665
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: But I think as the process guys on, as you

666
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: become more familiar with being in an outputty experience, it

667
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: tends to sort of shift and you start to experience

668
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: more as a kind of an ORB or or something

669
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: like that, which I've also had an orban experience. So

670
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: that's another thing. Okay, wait, what's the Okay, wait, hold on,

671
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: So you tend you tend to be more of an

672
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: orb and you've had an orbit experience. I'm going to

673
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: circle back to that one second. But the plane crash

674
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: that people they still look like people, like fully clothed

675
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: in the whole thing. Okay, So now the orb experience,

676
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: because I've also heard that. I was talking to Demi

677
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: Lovato and she was talking about kind of um experiencing

678
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 1: like through meditation, extraterrestrial contact, and she was showing me

679
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: photos of these blue green um golden I personally saw

680
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: ones that were like orange fire colored like these orbs,

681
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: and so I want to not like a it could

682
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: be extra treasure. We could I'll be talking about the

683
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: same thing and be what's your ORB experience? Well, I agree,

684
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. But I was meditating

685
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: with a friend of mine. He's a musician. Actually we were.

686
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: We were sitting meditating and just kind of very calm,

687
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: had sort of a very peaceful music on. We was

688
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: sitting there and suddenly, at the top of the kind

689
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: of weather ceiling and the wall meet, this kind of

690
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: ball of energy just moved through the wall um at

691
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 1: the at that level, and it was about the size

692
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: of a basketball and it and it drifted down slowly

693
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: in front of us and stopped at kind of like

694
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: our eye level between me and him. UM. I looked

695
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: at him and he kind of gesture to me that yeah,

696
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: he was also seeing this um and we just we

697
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: looked at it and it seemed to just radiate this energy.

698
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: It was green, like opaque green um, and it was

699
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: just radiating a very positive energy. It was like a

700
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: kind of love energy even. It was just really we

701
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: just felt incredible kind of sitting there and we just

702
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: kind of watched it. And then it stayed there for

703
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: quite a while, maybe as long as ten minutes or

704
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: something like that. Um, and we were just fixated on it,

705
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: and we almost felt like we were communicating with it,

706
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: but on a sort of an emotional level. Um. And

707
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: then it drifted away. I don't remember exactly, but it

708
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: kind of drifted away. So, yeah, that was my experience

709
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: with a or. But I don't know what it was

710
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: that I put it down to being a spirit because

711
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: that was my reference if you like my filter. But

712
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, you could easily also interpret that in it

713
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: as a kind of alien or I don't know, extraterrestrial.

714
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 1: It could be a spirit that's passed on. It could

715
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: be somebody else astral projecting or having an out of

716
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: body experience. It's so crazy. There's so many there's so

717
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: many possibilities. And I feel like usually when I talked

718
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: to a large majority of people about this kind of stuff,

719
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: they like giggle, And I mean not to generalize, but

720
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like most of the men I have

721
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: dated like cis gender white straight man like laugh at

722
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: me when I talk about this stuff. So I was like,

723
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 1: is it because I'm an artist? Is because I'm a woman?

724
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: Is it because I have always have had this really

725
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: strange relationship with my body where it just felt like

726
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: it wasn't mine? Since I remember having about it, I

727
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, this is my vehicle. So does say

728
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: for this lifetime for my soul. But it's so nice

729
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: to have this conversation because I do feel like leading

730
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: us somewhat spiritual existence has made my life so much

731
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: happier and more positive and better and also be able

732
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,479
Speaker 1: to weed out like what's actually good for not only

733
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: myself but other people on the planet. I agree, And

734
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: I think I think what you just said about men,

735
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: I think there is really a kind of hits to

736
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: do with this kind of role of masculinity and how

737
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: people are supposed to be in society. And I think

738
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: often men do get caught up in this thing that

739
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: they should not engage with those kinds of things they

740
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: should sort of because they're not you know, they too

741
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: we were? Were they too emotional? Which is you know,

742
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: things like that. So I think I think there's a

743
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: degree of sort of toxic masculinity and those kind of

744
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: ways of approaching things, which is really unfortunate thing because

745
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: you get the same thing with you know, things like

746
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 1: veganism and stuff like that. You know, people get very yeah,

747
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: because I'm also vegan, and I kind of see that

748
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: a part of my spiritual sort of identity as well.

749
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: And I feel it's a shame that a lot of

750
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: these sort of masculine viewpoints kind of stop people doing

751
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: better things in their lives. Specifically, it's so true because

752
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: of some sort of societal system that makes no sense,

753
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: yet we all kind of conform and adhere to it

754
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: until you hit a certain point, which I feel like

755
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: has happened really over time for me at least, but

756
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: where I started being like, wait, why am I even

757
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: doing that thing? I don't stand for that. I don't

758
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: want to do that, I don't want to wear that,

759
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that. But it just seemed

760
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: like it was part of what I was supposed to

761
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: behave like and I think for you know, a lot

762
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: of men that I've met, these conversations just like they

763
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: just dip out, They're like, no, I'm good, So I

764
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: like love having this conversation with you. It's great because

765
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: I do think there's an element of the masculinity that's

766
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: supposed to be not emotional, and I feel like, as

767
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: such an emotional creature, I could do being less emotional,

768
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: but there's so many men I see that I just

769
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: want to be like, it's okay, you cry. Like maybe

770
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: the world would be like, like less aggressive if everybody

771
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: was just a little bit more emotionally open and felt

772
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: safe doing that. Yeah, I think I think informity is

773
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: a big problem in general, you know. I think that

774
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: I think without a body experiences and all these things

775
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: they took me away from maybe a lot of that

776
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: need to be a particular way in my life. So

777
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: I think having those experiences made me think, no, I'm

778
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: going to walk my own path. I'm not going to

779
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: sort of follow this herd mentality that a lot of

780
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: people get sucked into and just sort of explore what

781
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: it is to be human and what all these experiences

782
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: mean and all these kinds of things. So I just

783
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: was exploring all these different areas that maybe a lot

784
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: of mainstream society rejects from the age of like fourteen

785
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: or whatever. That's I love that I wish I had

786
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: been more into spiritual stuff when I was at age.

787
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I was just into like trying to make out with

788
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: like senior boys, and I was playing the saxophone in

789
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: the marching band. It was not cool. It was it

790
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: was not having out about the experiences. I wish I

791
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: was like you got like a head start onto deeper

792
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: cool ship. So you have, of course on how to

793
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: like do this? Do you teach people? Oh my god,

794
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: I kind of do it all right? How do I

795
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: sign up for it? I have an online course and

796
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 1: I do private tuition, So I I love teaching people.

797
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: I think it's like so fulfilling to kind of give

798
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: people that kind of variance and see where they can

799
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: go with it. I've also got technology that I developed,

800
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: which is sound technology that helps get you to the

801
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: vibrational state, which is the pre state to the outbordy experience.

802
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: It's like the launching pad. So if you can get

803
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: to that point, then it's much easier to have an

804
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: outbordy experience. So I developed that as well. So what

805
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 1: does that It's infraliminal sound, So the infra part means

806
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: infra sounds, so it's very low level sound. Frequencies that

807
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: cause a mild shift in in your sort of conscious state.

808
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: And then it's also got subliminal messages to sort of

809
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: help you tune into the out body experience. So it's

810
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: kind of a combination of those two things. So UM,

811
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: and it uses the frequencies to kind of guide you

812
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: into that pre state of the out body experience. Basically,

813
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: what are the Okay when I hear when I think

814
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: of subliminal messages, I can't help but think like, oh,

815
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: that sounds like manipulative unless I know what it is.

816
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: So what are you saying, Like, what's the subliminal message

817
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: just to have enough body experience? It's it's just literally

818
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: too um, because I think a lot of the process

819
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: of inducing an outbuddy experience is getting the message to

820
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: your unconscious mind. Because I think what tends to happen

821
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: is we lay there trying to induce an outbuddy experience,

822
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: but sort of our conscious mind doesn't quite get what's

823
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: going on in that You can't sort of fully induce

824
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: it just from a conscious state, so you have to

825
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: get it into your unconscious in order to trigger the experience.

826
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: So the subliminals help with that. UM. So you can

827
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: also do it from a sleep state as well. But

828
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: there's two different versions. Are you like whisper talking in

829
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: the background, like saying things? Are the frequencies are I'll

830
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: just have to listen to you. You don't hear anything.

831
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: The main thing is the frequencies. But then there's there's

832
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: just these subtle sort of affirmations call them affirmations that

833
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: are layered into the frequencies. But the main thing what

834
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: we did is we did we experimented with ways of

835
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: um altering consciousness using frequencies. So when you listen to

836
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: music or you listen to sound, we all know there's

837
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: an emotional change or there's a change in how we

838
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: feel when we do that. So basically experimented with, okay,

839
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: if we put this kind of frequency, how does that

840
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: make the person feel? Do they feel better? Do they

841
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: feel more peaceful? You know what? How does that frequency

842
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: affect people? So we went through and basically created a

843
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: pattern of frequencies that will help you get if you

844
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: follow them, like almost like a meditation. You go with

845
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: the sound frequencies. It's almost like a mantra or something

846
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: like that, but in a recording, So a mantra or

847
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: like the sound that you hear when when you hear

848
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: like Buddhist monks or something like that, they're using sound

849
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: to get their consciousness to a particular point. And basically

850
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: I've kind of distilled that into frequencies in a in

851
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: a recording, so you can listen to that and it

852
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: will guide you to that point. Um. And then if

853
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: you combine that with the techniques, then it's much easier

854
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: to have an out body experience. So it makes it

855
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: more like a couple of months of work rather than

856
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: six months or whatever. Wait, I really want to do it, Okay,

857
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 1: just for myself, but and everybody listening, how would they

858
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: sign up for that? Do you have a website? They

859
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: can go to Graham Nicols dot com, which is Nickels

860
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: with two l's um, and yeah, they can get everything there.

861
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: The infra eliminal tracks are on there, or they can

862
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: get the course and there's kind of packages you get

863
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: course with the infraliminal and they can even get the

864
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: course infraliminal and I'll answer their questions as a one

865
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:13,959
Speaker 1: on one option as well. The whole thing. I love that.

866
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna try it. I mean, I'm gonna

867
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: try it. Fuck it, I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna

868
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: try it. Um. I wanted to ask you about because

869
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: I was reading something you had written about the importance

870
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: of solitude and as someone who is never by themselves ever,

871
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: like ever, like even when I go pe, I'll have

872
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: someone following me asking me a question about something. Never alone,

873
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: and I like being around people, like I'm just always

874
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: around a ton of people. And maybe I'm used to it.

875
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm codependent. Maybe I don't know what it is,

876
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: but so what do you think it is so important

877
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: about being alone? Um, I'm not sure it's important for everyone,

878
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: but I think it can be a really powerful way

879
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: to connect with those inner experiences and listen to the

880
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: kind of levels of your awareness and your consciousness that

881
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: maybe you don't hear if you're kind of constantly around

882
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: chatter and other people a lot like you do with

883
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: meditation and things like that. So, UM, I tend to

884
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: like to go off into nature and kind of connect

885
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: with nature and just spend some time on my own.

886
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: And it's almost a bit of a shamanic thing and

887
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: a little bit um. I also was initiated and part

888
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: of like witchcraft when I was quite young. So that

889
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: was also interconnected with all this. So um, I've sort

890
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,280
Speaker 1: of kept wait, what do you mean, Um, you're initiating

891
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: the witchcraft. You have to tell me what that means. Well,

892
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen and I was getting into all

893
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: this stuff, um, I guess when I was looking into

894
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: out of all the experiences and astral projection and all

895
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: that stuff, I came across witchcraft and things like that

896
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 1: as well. So I found a coven um who did

897
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 1: a blend of Alexandria and wicker and also um, traditional

898
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: English witchcraft is how they referred to it. So I

899
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: got involved with them, and I got initiated with them,

900
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: and so I learned a lot of processes for sort

901
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 1: of connecting with nature and going out into nature and

902
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: doing trance work and things like that out in nature.

903
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: So I guess that's more the more like using the

904
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: body and being very physical and being out in in

905
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: amongst the woods or whatever and kind of just connecting

906
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: in that kind of way. So um, I'm very I'm

907
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: very kind of explore any avenue that I think has

908
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: value and that will work and be useful and interesting.

909
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: So I've just always been open to all those things.

910
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, me too. I love it, and I love

911
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: like I'll go on tour and be playing shows with

912
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: tons of energy and tons of people and just like wild,

913
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: wild energy. And then my like come down off of

914
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: that is I like to go into the middle of

915
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: nowhere and camp and like just like be around absolutely

916
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: no one. Or I love scuba diving because I feel

917
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: like it's the only time I ever get to really

918
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 1: be alone. Okay, so but I have to put on

919
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: a fucking tank and go under the ocean for people

920
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: not to bother. The camping sounds similar to what I do.

921
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: I often go off into the woods and all that

922
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, so and decamping, and yeah, I find

923
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 1: I find that I like to do that at least

924
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: once a year or something where can just sort of

925
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: connect and and often I find that my experiences with

926
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: the out of body stuff will get better if I

927
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: do that, So it gives me that extra kind of

928
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: boost if I do something like that. In sensory deprivation,

929
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: like you were talking about the tanks earlier, something like

930
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: that as well. I think it's just that being in

931
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: that total stillness and being completely kind of away from

932
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: any kind of imagery and sound and all that kind

933
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: of stuff, and just having that period just allows your

934
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: it's like a reset, allows your consciousness and your experience

935
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: to just reset, and then you can just when you

936
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: try to do something after that just tends to flow

937
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: and be so much better. Um, that's how. But do

938
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: you have the problem of like your brain just being

939
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: like that's how I would describe my brain. My brain

940
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: is quite like that. So I think I need things

941
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: to kind of the kind of tune it out, you know. Um,

942
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: I definitely am more of a constantly coming up with

943
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: ideas and constantly exploring new areas and constantly learning. You know,

944
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: I'm just NonStop with that. So I think that these

945
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: kind of practices allow me to maybe turn that off

946
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: a little bit into kind of reconnect with something else.

947
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: I called myself a spiritual explorer, and then somebody wants

948
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: in an interview called me a nature punk, which is

949
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: like my favorite thing ever. I was like, I feel

950
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: like I'm being seen for who I truly am. But

951
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just feel like if a kindred

952
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: spirit in those regions, I'm creative. But Okay, I have

953
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: one more question, because I know we're like about at

954
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: a time, but I have one question, just because I

955
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: don't quite understand what is the difference between astral projection

956
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: and and of body experience or can are they can?

957
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: Can they be the same thing? Are they two separate things?

958
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 1: I guess what most people that the way most people

959
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 1: divide the two is to say that UM, a'stu projection

960
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: is an intentional our body experience. So you could have

961
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: an our body experience spontaneously like I did when I

962
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: was a kid. You can just sort of lay down

963
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: and UM, it might happen, or you know, people have

964
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: them in all different contexts and situations. So M and

965
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: our body experiences like I mentioned that thing of that

966
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: you feel yourself out of your physical body and you

967
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: experience the world from that out of body vantage points.

968
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: So that's what it feels like, UM. But astral projection

969
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: is the process of trying to make that happen in

970
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: an intentional way. And I guess the term astral projection

971
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: also comes from more like esoteric writings, So our body

972
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: is more like the scientific modern term UM, whereas astral

973
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: projection is more than classical, going back into hermetic traditions

974
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: and philosophy and all these esoteric ideas from the past.

975
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: They used to use that kind of context, and in

976
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: those ideas, you have multiple bodies in that philosophy. So

977
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: they say an etheric body, which is operates on this

978
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: plane on the physical plane, and then the astral body

979
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: operates on the astral plane, and then there's more after that.

980
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: I don't really subscribe to all that, but that's where

981
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: the term astral comes from. It literally comes from from

982
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: astra like meaning like like a star. So um, it

983
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: literally means like star projection or you know, like it

984
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: being like a star, making yourself like a starter, I guess, um,

985
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's really the difference. But I've started

986
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:01,479
Speaker 1: using independent consciousness experience aliens as well. That's my new

987
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: sort of term, which is basically because then it doesn't

988
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: focus so much on the idea of a body. It's

989
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: more like I can experience myself, my consciousness independent and

990
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: kind of out there in the world, functioning in its

991
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: own way. So it's kind of a bit different to

992
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: this thing that just focuses on sort of coming out

993
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: the body, you know, because often people sort of get

994
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: fixated on this idea of being above their body looking

995
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: back at themselves lead line below, And I think, what's

996
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: most interesting about our body experiences is this when your

997
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 1: consciousness expands and your experience like an interconnectedness with all

998
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: of life and reality you like. So it's kind of

999
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,959
Speaker 1: when you just don't know what you're going to learn

1000
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: and what you're going to experience. I think that's the

1001
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: most fascinating part about it. In many ways, you're not

1002
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: so focused on the separation of spirit and body. You're

1003
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: just open to expansion of consciousness. Yeah, because at the

1004
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: end of the day, I think no one really wants

1005
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: to just come out of their body just so they

1006
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: can look at themselves on their bed. Um. That sounds terrifying. Yeah,

1007
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: that's not That's not really what most people are interested in.

1008
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: Most people, I think, are interested in experiencing other levels

1009
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: of reality. Um, you know, asking those questions like about

1010
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: life after death, um, experiencing sort of interconnectedness with other life,

1011
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 1: like other beings, all those kinds of things, you know,

1012
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: asking those bigger questions. I think. So cool. All right, Well,

1013
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to sign up at Graham Nickels with two

1014
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: els dot com. Yes, is that right. What's the name

1015
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: of your book? Well, the first my first book is

1016
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: called Avenues of the Human Spirit. Um, and that one

1017
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: explores all of my own kind of journey and all

1018
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing like um, including how it's

1019
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: sort of spiritually changed me and all that kind of stuff.

1020
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: Coming from a very sort of working class background and

1021
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, very sort of ordinary kind of outlook on

1022
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: life and how that shifted. And then the second book,

1023
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: which is called Navigating the Out of Body Experience. That

1024
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: one there's a sort of new edition coming out, but

1025
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: it's also available with my course. Can I ask you

1026
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: a really like a couple of very stupid questions that

1027
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: are real m but fun. If you hate one, you

1028
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: can be like, I don't want answer. Okay, if you

1029
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: had a cult, what would be the dress code? Nudity? Nudity?

1030
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: I agree fully agree, Like why did we I have

1031
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: so many clothes, but like I would like to have

1032
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 1: none except for maybe just one keep just for fun,

1033
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: for fair, like just for pizzas, you know, not for anything,

1034
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: like to cover anything, just not out of necessity. If

1035
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: you were a ghost, which you might be a ghost

1036
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: when you're projecting yourself over the living one, yeah, yeah,

1037
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: which is a trip. But okay, so would you how

1038
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: would you haunt and who would you haunt? There anybody

1039
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: you would want to hunt, just like funk with um.

1040
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: The thing is a lot of people probably like I

1041
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: probably would like probably move around like try some people

1042
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: there that some people there just move around the world,

1043
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: like checking out, checking out what's really going on behind

1044
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: the scenes, check out what's what the secret secrets of

1045
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: the world really come down to. The Vatican would be interesting.

1046
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: I think they're really up to behind the scenes. It

1047
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: would be interesting behind like politics and major religions. I

1048
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: just want to go see what's up. Well, thank you

1049
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: so much Graham Nichols for being here, Thank you everybody

1050
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: for listening, and keep on creeping on.