1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, what do Americans really 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: think about K through twelve education? Each year, ED Choices 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: Schooling and America Survey provides one of the most comprehensive 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: answers to that question. They released the twenty twenty five edition, 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: their thirteenth annual nationally representative look at parents and the 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: public's views on everything from school satisfaction and funding to 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: educational choice policies and the row of government. Over the 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: course of the survey's thirteen year history, they've asked a 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: set of recurring questions focusing on the direction of K 10 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: through twelve education, parents schooling preferences, parents satisfaction with their 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: children's schooling experiences, and public feelings towards educational choice policies. 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: Here to discuss their twenty twenty five survey, I am 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guests, Robert Enlow. He is 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: the President and CEO of ED Choice. Before the formation 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: of ed Choice in twenty sixteen, Robert was an integral 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: part of the Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation for Educational 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: Choice from its launch in nineteen ninety six. Under his leadership, 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: d Choice has become one of the nation's most respected 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: and successful advocates for educational choice working in dozens of 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: states to advance parental freedom and education. Robert, Welcome and 21 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me again on Newtsworld. 22 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: Nice mind pleasure, mister speaker, thanks for having me. 23 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: You know I have to ask you your new Schooling 24 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: in America report shows that more than two thirds of 25 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: Americans believe K through twelve education is on the wrong track. 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: Why do you think public confidence in education is so low. 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: It's our thirteenth year of doing this survey. I wish 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: I could say it was lucky number thirteen for our 29 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: government run schools, but it's not. It's the second highest 30 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: dissatisfaction that we've ever seen. And I think the answer 31 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: for that is simple. Parents are telling us that these 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: schools are not safe. My kids are getting bullied, my 33 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: kids are mentally anxious, and they're not doing a good 34 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: job of educating my kids. And on top of that, 35 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: they're spending a ton of money that they don't know 36 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: how it's being used. So parents are frustrated with what's 37 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: going on in K twelve education around the country. 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: Why hasn't there been a faster moved to a really 39 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: serious reform. 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 2: So the fast move to serious reform has been through 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: school choice. Finally, So starting after COVID, we had zero 42 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: states that had universal choice. Now we have nineteen states 43 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 2: that have universal choice. We had less than I think 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: about four hundred thousand kids were in school choice by 45 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. Now there's one point three million. So there 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: is a massive growth in the private school choice sector. 47 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: And the theory, of course of Milton Friedman is if 48 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: you allow massive te you're going to create more competition 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: and the public school is going to have to improve. 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 2: I think we're to that tipping point in mister speaker, 51 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: where we're to the point where there's enough choice in 52 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: states like Arizona, Indiana, Ohio, Florida, where the public schools 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: are either going to have to reform or adapt or 54 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: die as they used to say. 55 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: Well Man, yet your own survey says that only thirty 56 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: one percent of Americans believe K through twelve education is 57 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: headed in the right direction, and that that is an 58 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: eleven point declined since twenty twenty one. 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: Again, that's why people are going to choice at all sorts. 60 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: So that's why you're seeing continued absenteeism, You're seeing continued 61 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: migration to charter schools and private schools and choice programs. 62 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: This dissatisfaction is why you're seeing homeschooling dramatically on the 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: rise since COVID. So this dissatisfaction is leading to people 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: making new choices. 65 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: You know, and one of those actually was a real 66 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: surprise to me. A majority of Republican school parents say 67 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: education isn't the right track, but only a minority of 68 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: Democrats and independence degree. Why is there this part of difference. 69 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: My guess is the partisan difference in the right track 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: is because many Republicans are choosing more of their education, 71 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: whether it's a traditional public school, by moving to a 72 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: home district or not. You know, we see changes in 73 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 2: the survey when presidents come. So the first Trump presidency 74 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: you saw a greater level of dissatisfaction at the beginning 75 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: with schooling, and the end of it you saw greater support. 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: And so I think Republicans are just ahead of this 77 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 2: trend when it comes to the idea of being more 78 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 2: satisfied with their options and their choices. 79 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: Well, and you make the point in your report that 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: private school parents are much more positive. About forty nine 81 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: percent of private school parents feel very satisfied with their 82 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: child school compared to thirty two percent of public school parents. 83 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a big difference. It's almost a fifty 84 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: percent differential. 85 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: It's a huge difference. And that's also true like if 86 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: you look at charter schools and home schooling, so all 87 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 2: the school types parents that are choosing are happier and 88 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: more satisfied, and it's the traditional public school where people 89 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: are feeling like they have to be assigned. Later in 90 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: the study, there's a question about why are parents choosing 91 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: these schools, and it's very interesting to see the difference. 92 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: So parents who are choosing private schools are doing so 93 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: for academics, for safety, and for moral values. Parents who 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: are choosing charter schools are doing so for academics, safety, 95 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: and close to home. Parents who are choosing public schools 96 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 2: are doing so for three reasons. It's close to their home, 97 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 2: socializing their kids, and it's their assigned school. What's very 98 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 2: interesting is that mere fact of choice between charter and 99 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 2: private schools is driving the conversation to quality, to safety, 100 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: and to moral values. And the more families that can 101 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: choose from public schools, the better our society is going 102 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: to be. 103 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: Frankly, I'm amazed at the number of people who are 104 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: concerned about safety in school, not just physical safety, but 105 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: also bullying and a whole sense of this is not 106 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: a good environment. Do you find that across the country. 107 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 2: We do find that across the country, and we of 108 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: course do another survey that's a monthly survey that is 109 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 2: done in partnership with Morning Consul, and it has been 110 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: a consistent trend over five years that parents are tired 111 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: of their kids getting bullied in school. This sort of 112 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: bullying is a huge issue for parents, their child's mental 113 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: health and anxiety. There's a lot of worry from families 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: about their children having too much anxiety at a school, 115 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: particularly to public school where there's not a lot of safety. 116 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: The parents are also at higher rates saying that we 117 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: were worried about shooting. These issues where public schools are 118 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: not responding effectively to a child's bullying and a child's 119 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: anxiety is really having an impact on parents, and they're 120 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: saying that my kid's not safe, and they're looking at 121 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: safety in a broader thing from just sort of physical safety, 122 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: it's also emotional and mental safety. 123 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: A very large number of Americans, well over a majority, 124 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: underestimate how much money we're already spending on public schools 125 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: in their states. Baltimore City Schools, which are the third 126 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: most expensive in the country, are among the worst schools 127 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: in the entire country. So it's not a coral right 128 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: now between how much we spend and what kind of 129 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: education we're getting. 130 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: The idea that money has anything to do with quality 131 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: of education is not the case, and the more money 132 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: you see is often in the worst performing schools. Parents, however, 133 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: in the public, really just don't have a knowledge of 134 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: how much we spend on kte of education. They've been 135 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: lied to for so long about how much we spend, 136 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: they underestimate it to the tune of like somewhere between 137 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: seven and ten thousand dollars. It's crazy how much they 138 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: underestimate how much you spend on public education. Now, when 139 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: you tell them how much you spend, right, their idea 140 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: of it being too low goes way down by about 141 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: a third, right, So it's interesting when you actually inform 142 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: them how much the average spending is, the number of 143 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: parents that are saying that we don't spend enough goes 144 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: down by a third. I think that's why information is 145 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: so important, and parents just don't have a clue about 146 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: how much we spend, they really don't. 147 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: Utah is the least expensive state in the country purstudent, 148 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: but his outcomes are radically better then Baltimore or New 149 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: York or Chicago, all of which spend I think maybe 150 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: at least three times as much as Utah. 151 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: There could be many reasons so that. One of those 152 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: reasons would be it's one of the highest homeschooling states 153 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: in the country, so they have a number of families 154 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: who are homeschooling and getting better results. It could also 155 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: be that it is a state that has some of 156 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: the lowest minority demographics. And there's all sorts of different 157 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: reasons for why it could be ed Ford. But Utah 158 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: definitely has proven that you don't need to spend a 159 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: lot of money in order to get a quality education. 160 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: And if you look at a state like Indiana or 161 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: Florida or Arizona, where there's choice programs that are really broad, 162 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: you are seeing the families are doing better on NAPE 163 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: and the NAPE scores that came out, the private schools 164 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: did better, and the private schools in Arizona, Florida, and 165 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: Indiana did better than the public schools. 166 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: What's fascinating is one We do know that private schools 167 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: that have discipline and that have parental involvement do dramatically 168 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: better than public schools that are run by unions and 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: bureaucracies that are not paying attention. I saw one study 170 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: recently that Mississippi now scores higher than Minnesota in mathematics, 171 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: which has to be an enormous shock to Minnesota's. 172 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it is shocking by going back to 173 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: those basics of reading, writing at arithmetic in Minnesota like foning. 174 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: They call it the science of reading, but you know, 175 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: we know it back in the day is phonics. In 176 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: many ways, their scores went through the roof. You know, 177 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: so just some basic reforms that require traditional public schools 178 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: to go back to the way they taught couldn't have impact. 179 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: We all know that choices having impact. The data is 180 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: really clear on this. In states where there's school choice, 181 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 2: public schools do better than the states without school choice. 182 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: There's a recent Open the Books report their title the 183 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,119 Speaker 1: Public School Crisis. Higher payrolls associated with worse student performance, 184 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: and they argue it Open the Books that as payrolls 185 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: increased in public schools, student performance decreased. That is the 186 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: opposite of a healthy system. 187 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: Well, part of that could be that is totally true, 188 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: and Milton Freeman, I think would call that the machinery 189 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 2: of a monopoly at work. The study that we've done 190 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: shows that between nineteen fifty and twenty fifteen, and we've 191 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: continued this study going forward, the number of kids and 192 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: rolled in schools went up one hundred percent, the number 193 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: of teachers went up two hundred and fifty percent or so, 194 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: and the number of non teachers went up seven hundred 195 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: and nine percent. So think of what happened. School districts 196 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: brought in seven times the number of non teaching staff 197 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: for the enrollment, and there's just no way you can 198 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: actually increase the quality of education because those are all administrators, 199 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: those are all bureaucrats adding to the system. They're now 200 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: more non teachers in NK twelve education than our teachers. 201 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: And so it's no wonder why places like Baltimore that 202 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 2: have high pay rolls mostly probably for administrators or having 203 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: a challenge in teaching kids. 204 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: And this particular report from Opening the Books, they point 205 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,479 Speaker 1: out that they're over eighty eight hundred public school employees 206 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: earning more than two hundred thousand dollars a year. How 207 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: about almost none of those are. 208 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 2: Teachers, probably not by probably a little counterintuitive on this, 209 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: we talk about superintendents of large school districts making over 210 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty or three hundred thousand dollars. You know, 211 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: I look at my home city of Indianapolis. It's district 212 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 2: is about seven hundred and fifty million or so a year. 213 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 2: I don't know of many companies that would pay their 214 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: CEO two hundred and fifty thousand on a seven hundred 215 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: and fifty million dollar budget. Maybe if we started treating 216 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 2: these districts more like actual businesses, holding the superintendent's to 217 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: true account, we might get different level of talent and 218 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: be willing to pay it more. Right So, I think 219 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: one of the challenges that the incentives in the system 220 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 2: is not set up to make sure we're getting the 221 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: best possible talent in there, particularly the administrator side of my. 222 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: From a Florida perspective, Miami Dade and Hillsboro get top 223 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: exam scores while spending less on payroll and employing very 224 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: few high sourid staff. Los Angeles Unified, which is an 225 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: enormous system, spent more for pupil and had many high 226 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: paid staff, but ranked lower. What do you think is 227 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: the contrast between the Los Angeles approach and the Miami 228 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: Hillsboro approach. 229 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: This is a very simple anstitute. Miami Dade has one 230 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: of the most robust choice environments in the country. The 231 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: actual school district will charter schools in its own district. 232 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: It actually has robust charter schools. It has a tremendous 233 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: number of kids on private schools, on the choice program. 234 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: It has a number of kids going to a scholarship 235 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 2: program or the taxpayer scholarship. It is a robust environment 236 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: of choice in Miami Dade. And you know what it 237 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 2: doesn't have in LA. A robust environment of choice. 238 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: Well, in fact, I assume that Los Angeles unified bureaucrats 239 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: and unions would fight at the barricades to preserve their monopoly. 240 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: Yes they are, and they don't even want any kind 241 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: of charter schools, which you know many people think charter 242 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: schools or public schools, and they don't even want any 243 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 2: kind of reform that would allow charter schools in places 244 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: like LA. It's tragic that so many kids in the 245 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 2: largest school districts are being held captive by folks who 246 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 2: don't want a little competition. 247 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: What do you think has been the key to the 248 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: really post COVID explosion of interest and the number of 249 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: people migrating towards school choice and the number of state 250 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: legislatures and governors who have been supporting school choice. What 251 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: do you think is happening that led to this transition. 252 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: So I think there was a lot of work going 253 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: into sort of building to this point before twenty twenty, 254 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: and a lot of good effort building and educating and 255 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: getting a lot of advocates understanding what was going on. 256 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, a movement that is based on parents 257 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: became led by parents, And what ended up happening is 258 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: I think this common cultural experience that we used to 259 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: have of K twelve education, my mom sent me to 260 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: a public school. I walked to public school, You walked 261 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: to public stoo was changed and subverted and the common 262 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: experience was what's going over a kid's shoulder when they're 263 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 2: watching them on the internet right watching a teacher doing 264 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: a classroom during COVID, That common experience made parents really 265 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: angry and they saw that there's something different that was needed, 266 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, parents were saying, we don't 267 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: care what it is we want something different, and legislators 268 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: finally had a voice to say, this isn't a fight 269 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: about public or private schools. This is a fight about 270 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: how I can help my parents in my district. And 271 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: that shift of the conversation is the reason why legislators 272 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: are now flocking to the idea of the essays all 273 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: across the country because it's no longer a charter versus public, 274 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: a charter versus private, or private versus public, and say 275 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: I'm going to do whatever I can to give parents 276 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: a choice and option. If they choose public schools, great, 277 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: If they don't, find we're just going to give them 278 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 2: more choices. 279 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: So in that context is based on your work, the 280 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: more people understand about the choices. For example, vouchers support 281 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: jumps like fifteen points once you expl what they are 282 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: and how they work. 283 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, our surveys over the last thirteen you have been 284 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: very clear by this. If you ask a parent or 285 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: anyone just a cold question, do you support school vouchers, 286 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: it's now over fifty percent. But if you say a 287 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 2: a school voucher is a voucher for a family to 288 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: attend a non public or private school of your choice, 289 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: that number just jumps. The support just jumps. That is 290 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: true across the board for essays and for tax credit scholarships. 291 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: What's interesting on the ESA number what we call a 292 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: cold thing, Right, do you support essays? You know who 293 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: the highest number supporters are for the cold teachers. Teachers 294 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: love the idea of essays. That's part of the reason 295 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: why micro schools are growing effectively. Right. Teachers are frustrated, 296 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 2: they're tired, and they want to try something new, and 297 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: they look at education savidan accounts as a way to 298 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: do so. It's very interesting. 299 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: Part of that also is when you explain refundable tax 300 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: credits for education expenses, it becomes very popular. 301 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, people like getting their own money back. It's shocking, right, 302 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: they'd rather spend it the sells rather than the government. Look, 303 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 2: all of these things whatever, it's a refundable tax credit, 304 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: it's a charter school, it's a voucher, it's an education 305 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: savings account. Whenever you provide a tiny bit of an explanation, 306 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: that support from all demographics jumps across the board. It's 307 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: interesting when you look at the support, for example, of 308 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: education savings counts, which demographics supported the most. Right, So 309 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: there's a ton of support for education savings counts from 310 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: Hispanic families. They love the concept of the essays in 311 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: school vouchers. African American families love the concept of school vouchers. 312 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: It's interesting how you can look at different types and 313 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: different and different demographics have different support. 314 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: But in every case you're seeing a support for a 315 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: fundamental change from the monopoly of the last one hundred. 316 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: Years one hundred percent. And legislators have basically said, and 317 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: I think Democrats are going to have to come around. Look, 318 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: the tax credit bill that was passed as part of 319 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: the one Big Beautiful bill in the Congress last year 320 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: is going to have to put some pre sure on 321 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: Democrat governors. Are they going to allow their state to 322 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: participate in a tax credit program that will allow public 323 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 2: schools to get scholarships, private schools to get scholarships, in 324 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 2: charter schools to get scholarships. It's going to put pressure 325 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: on them to say, hey, we want to give parents choices. 326 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: Even in these blue states. 327 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: There are some people, for example, children who are physically 328 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: or mentally challenged, where you have to think about that 329 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: that costs more, and you almost have to think about 330 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: can we design models where If that's the circumstance, then 331 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: the voucher's bigger or the opportunities bigger than just people 332 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: who are coming in who are totally prepared. What's your 333 00:17:59,160 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: thinking on them? 334 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: So most states, in their public school funding from you 335 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: already give weights to different types of kids. So if 336 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 2: you have a special needs kid in Indiana, you're getting 337 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: higher amounts of money. The reality of all we want 338 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,719 Speaker 2: is we just want families to be able to get 339 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: the money that would have been set aside for them 340 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 2: to go to whatever school. So the Arizona Choice Program 341 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: started as a special needs scholarship program. It started for 342 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 2: families a special needs group. In my state of Indiana, 343 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: there isn't program just for special needs kids. What you're 344 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 2: finding is the families who have children with special unique 345 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: abilities want more options and would like the dollars to 346 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: follow the kids. Traditional public schools in Florida and in 347 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: Arizona have high amounts of money. Like in Texas, the 348 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: bill that passed, you could get up to thirty thousand 349 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: dollars for your kid to get an education savans acount 350 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: if they qualify under the special needs category. So the 351 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 2: goal here is whatever dollars are set aside for your 352 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: child is what you should be able to get. 353 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: It's not like moving away from the current bureaucratic school 354 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: system is necessarily going to leave behind the most challenged students. 355 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: No fact that the vast majority of the students in 356 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: Florida and Arizona at the beginning were special needs students. 357 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: This makes a lot of sense because as a parent 358 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 2: of a specially needs student myself, there was no way 359 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: that the district was going to get their hands on 360 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: my kid. Just to be blunt, my son needed something different. Thankfully, 361 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: I had the ability to pay for private schools, but 362 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 2: there are so many parents like me that don't, and 363 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: when choice comes in, that's exactly what happens. They start 364 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,239 Speaker 2: taking advantage of that. Like what's happening in Arizona right now, 365 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: mister speaker. They're these cool little micro schools where families 366 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: are going to houses that are specifically set up ADA 367 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: compliant and they're teaching them horse equine therapy, They're teaching 368 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 2: them how to farm, They're teaching maths skills and reading 369 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: skills through these kind of physical activities, and it's amazing. 370 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: Describe this concept of a micro school. I understand the words, 371 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: but I want to understand the concept. 372 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: A micro school sometimes is hard to define in the 373 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: sense that it's typically a smaller setting in a non 374 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: sort of building of vironment that is offered between one 375 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: and four days a week. It's not a full time school. 376 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 2: It's typically smaller with a number of kids. It's typically 377 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: also very unique in its delivery. So there's one micro 378 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: school called Surf Skates sandwhich I love to talk about. 379 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: They teach kids how to surf and skate, and while 380 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: doing some they teach them geometry and algebra because you 381 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: have vectors and all of that stuff when you do 382 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: that right, So they teach them about ways and motions 383 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: and sound and so schools like that are being created 384 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: to be really unique delivery models for kids who learn 385 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: in different ways. 386 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: Do they then tend to get paired up with other 387 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: schools through the three or four days. 388 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 2: No, they go two or three days, and that satisfies it, right, 389 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: And it's a pay as you go situation. So my 390 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 2: friend in Arizona sends her kids to a public school 391 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: that runs a micro school. So she is enrolled in 392 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: a public micro school that the kids go to one 393 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 2: day a week and the rest they learn at home. 394 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: So it's this customization, mister speaker that's really starting to 395 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 2: happen around the country. 396 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: That's sort of amazing. 397 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and teachers loving it. In Arizona and Florida and 398 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 2: places like West Virginia and now New Hampshire, they're the 399 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 2: ones leading away on this kind of customization. This makes sense, right, 400 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 2: So when you create a market, the first thing that 401 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 2: happens is market segmentation and specialization. Right, You're allowing yourself 402 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: to build new ideas for families who need it. And 403 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: that's exactly what's happening in these states. It's really intriguing 404 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 2: and really unique. 405 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: Tell me just for a second. It seems to me 406 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: that while people are very worried about education, and while 407 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: conservatives would focus their own happiness on the Department of Education, 408 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: there's still a majority of Americans who oppose closing the 409 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: department and only about a third supporter. How do you 410 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: evaluate the Department of Education's role in all this? 411 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: So what we found in our survey is that parents 412 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: are saying in public, are saying, look, we don't want 413 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: it to be closed, but we do understand it should 414 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: be limited. Right, So when you ask them what roles 415 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: it should have fund kids, make sure special needs kids 416 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: are taken care of, make sure low income kids have 417 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: the funding they need, and then leave the rest aside. 418 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: The support for idea of going into classroom with mandates, 419 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 2: with testing, with curriculum goes way down. So the public, 420 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: I think, understands that you need the government to have 421 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 2: some role, but that role needs to be limited in 422 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 2: terms related to funding and making sure the kids have 423 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: the right needs for the right kids or right kids 424 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 2: with right needs. 425 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: I was at public events in nineteen eighty three when 426 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: the regular administration launched a Nation at Risk, a study 427 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: which said that if a foreign government did to our 428 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: children what we are doing to our children, we would 429 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: consider it an act of war. And I watched us 430 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: flounder and not be able to come to grips with it. 431 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: And then in the late nineteen eighties, I was with 432 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: Governor Tommy Thompson when a former Jesse jack Since state 433 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: chair who had been a social worker, Polly Williams there 434 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: was a state legislator one time was the longest serving 435 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: state legislator in Wisconsin history, was a state legislator and 436 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: she wanted school choice. Now in her case, she actually 437 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: wanted it specifically in Milwaukee, where she felt it was 438 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: the poor children who were being robbed. Tommy picked this 439 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: up and I tried to help them. At the time, 440 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: I was like voices in the wilderness. You could hardly 441 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: imagine either the indifference. The business community was not prepared 442 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: to think this boldly, and it seemed like a strange idea. 443 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: It has gradually taken off, and in that sense, it 444 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: seems to me we may be at the edge of 445 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: a period of real renaissance and real invention, and ten 446 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: or fifteen years from now we may be in a 447 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: remarkably diverse and intriguing and experimental learning system onlike anything 448 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: we currently have. 449 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I think what was one's voices 450 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: in the wilderness is now a chorus of people saying, 451 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: try something different. What was once voice is saying let's 452 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 2: just fix our traditional system. It's now a wide orchestra 453 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 2: saying we need to do something different. And my biggest 454 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 2: fear is that in twenty to twenty five years from 455 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: now will have gone through all of this and schooling 456 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: will be delivered the same way. It will look and 457 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 2: feel the same way. And if that's the case, then 458 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 2: we haven't succeeded. But my guess is based on what 459 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 2: I'm saying now, the dynamism, the real movement towards private schools, 460 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 2: towards new types of schools, public schools going four days 461 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 2: a week because they don't need to go five days 462 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: a week, the idea of having to go five days 463 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 2: a week to learn, if you can learn in four days, 464 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: This stuff is happening, and I think it's going to 465 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: make a big difference. 466 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: Let's assume that moving forward we're going to solve this, 467 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: we're going to still have forty or fifty million adults 468 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: who have been cheated, many of whom are functionally illiterate, 469 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: can't do math. How do we take the lessons we're 470 00:24:54,119 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: currently learning and develop an adult learning capacity? But nobody 471 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: is permanently trapped if they're willing to learn and willing 472 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: to show some initiative. 473 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: Really appreciate you saying forty to fifty million adults. The 474 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 2: staff That really gets me every year is every single 475 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: year since I moved back to this country in nineteen 476 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: ninety six, between one and one point three million kids 477 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: have dropped out of school. That's just too many, right, 478 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 2: It's just done in our economy and our society and 479 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 2: handle it. What I'm hoping is you'll see the micro 480 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 2: school movement and the small school movement and the private 481 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 2: school movement start to say, hey, and here's why it's cool. 482 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: We can take the money in the ESA programs and 483 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: put it into college. So why can't a child who 484 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 2: gets an ESA program, let's say, and gets into a 485 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: college and get scholarship, but they have money left in 486 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: their account. Why can't that go to a parent who 487 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: needs to get more education. There's ways to do this 488 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: to create and stimulate new learning, their dropout prevention schools 489 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 2: and charter schools. That could also be done in the 490 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 2: private sector. So I think there's a lot going on 491 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 2: and we need to move into that audience. There's no 492 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: doubt we. 493 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: Could be on the edge of having new learning about 494 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: learning correct. I think that's right, and that could in 495 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: fact liberate us in lots of different ways to solve 496 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: our problems and make us once again the most dynamic 497 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: and the most competitive country in the world. 498 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 2: Yes, when you think about the idea of moving from 499 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: seat time to competency as your metric, right from five 500 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 2: days a week to whatever works for a kid, for 501 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: my son, for example, we went to one of the 502 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: best charter schools in the state. He could have tested 503 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: out of English in this freshman year. Why did he 504 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 2: need to take English for four years? Well, because the 505 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 2: States told him he had right What if he didn't 506 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: have to, What if he could learn actually something different 507 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 2: in those four years. So there's got to be a customization. 508 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 2: I think that's what's happening right, It's really dynamic. 509 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: This is very exciting. I want to thank you for 510 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: joining me. Your new ed Choice Report twenty twenty five 511 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: Schooling in America, examining trends in public opinion on K 512 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: twelve education, parent experiences and school choice is available now 513 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: at EdChoice dot org. And the work you're doing is 514 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: probably the most significant nationwide effort to continually monitor what's 515 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: happening and to help people move in the right direction. 516 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: So I think, Robert, that your dedicated commitment has made 517 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: a real difference in America. 518 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: Thank you, mister speaker. Ed you were there at the beginning. 519 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: It's early in DC, so thank you very much for 520 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: everything you've done. 521 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Robert Enlow. You can get 522 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: a link to the head Choice Report twenty twenty five 523 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: schooling in America on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 524 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: Newtworld is produced by Englishy sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive 525 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 526 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley special 527 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: thanks to the team of the University sixty. If you've 528 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll get Apple Podcasts and 529 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 530 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 531 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: listeners of Newtsworld, sign up for my three free weekly 532 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: columns at Gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. 533 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: This is Neutsworld.