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Speaker 1: Rivals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Rivals, to show about music beefs and feuds

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Speaker 1: and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and I'm

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Speaker 1: Jordan's and it's appropriate that we conclude our three part

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Speaker 1: epic on the Eagles with a boatload of lawsuits. Today

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Speaker 1: we're gonna focus on David Geffen, the music industry Barracuda,

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Speaker 1: who helped launch the band with the stable of Laurel

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Speaker 1: Canyon Acts in the early seventies, and later on he

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Speaker 1: does battle not only with the Eagles, but also his

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Speaker 1: own protege, irving A's Off, who swooped in and smatched

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Speaker 1: the band from his control, leading to decades of animosity. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It says a lot about the Eagles that we know

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Speaker 1: the names of so many of their managers, And I

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Speaker 1: think that's because, like, the Eagles were as much a

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Speaker 1: business as they were a superstar rock band. Now, I

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Speaker 1: think that's true of all superstar rock bands, but the

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Speaker 1: Eagles really didn't do anything to hide their business side.

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Speaker 1: Like when you watch the movie that we've referenced many

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Speaker 1: many times in this series documentary, The History of the Eagles,

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Speaker 1: you immediately noticed that like David Geffen and Irving Asof

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Speaker 1: are prominently featured. David Geffen especially is one of the

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Speaker 1: best and most colorful talking heads in that movie. Like

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Speaker 1: whenever he's on camera, I get really excited because I

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Speaker 1: know he's about to blow somebody out of the water

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Speaker 1: with a pithy put down. Yeah, Yeah, he's the best.

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Speaker 1: I mean, geffn is truly one of the most fascinating

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Speaker 1: figures of music because he has one of those quintessential

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Speaker 1: American dream stories, you know. I mean, this poor dyslexic

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Speaker 1: kid from Brooklyn wants to make it in the entertainment history,

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Speaker 1: so he works his way up literally from the mail room.

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Speaker 1: Within a few years, he's a millionaire. And for the

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Speaker 1: last I think twenty years he's been a billionaire. And

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Speaker 1: he did it by being the meanest, toughest, shrewdest guy

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Speaker 1: on the block. Aside from perhaps Irving as Off getting

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Speaker 1: back to the Eagles, I think both men were what

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Speaker 1: the band needed at that specific moment in time. Geffen

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Speaker 1: was perfect to ingratiate them with the hip Laurel Canyon

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Speaker 1: scene in the first half the decade, and Azof was

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Speaker 1: the wild hotel trashing Arena rock manager they needed for

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Speaker 1: the Hotel California era, and the personality clashes, to say

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Speaker 1: nothing of the legal clashes are just endlessly amusing to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, dun Henley once referred to Irving Aidsof as Satan,

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Speaker 1: and he meant it as a compliment and Eagles compliment.

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Speaker 1: But I think in his heart Henley looks at David

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Speaker 1: Geffen as like an actual devil because those guys had

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Speaker 1: a very public feud that didn't end well. Of course,

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Speaker 1: nothing ever ends well in the Eagles story, but that

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Speaker 1: is very, very good for us. On the Rivals podcast,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jordan's I'm sad that we finally reached the

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Speaker 1: third in concluding installment of this series, but all good

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Speaker 1: things must come to an end, and I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to dive into the dirty business dealings of the Eagles.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into this mess. Geffen

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Speaker 1: was born in Brooklyn and came from a long line

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Speaker 1: of deal makers. His mother apparently used to walk in

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Speaker 1: the Bloomingdale's and try to haggle with the store clerks,

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Speaker 1: which is not that kind of place. It got to

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Speaker 1: the point where they'd roll their eyes whenever she'd walk

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Speaker 1: in it's great. Uh. She raised her boy for greatness,

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Speaker 1: calling him King David, and Uh. They were not well

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Speaker 1: off when he was growing up, and she would say

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Speaker 1: to him, you better learn to love to work because

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Speaker 1: we have no money, and you're gonna be working for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life. And I think those two

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Speaker 1: King David, and you're gonna be working the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life because we have no money. I think those

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Speaker 1: two things fused in David's mind and that became the

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Speaker 1: Giffen that we know and love. That's what fuels him

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Speaker 1: because he was the scrawny kid. He was a bit nerdy,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he knew he was never going to

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Speaker 1: be the quarterback or the lead singer in any kind

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Speaker 1: of band. So this, coupled with his mother's workaholic streak,

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Speaker 1: helped fuel his ambition. And he would say in later years,

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Speaker 1: I'm really just a boy from Brooklyn who wishes he

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Speaker 1: was six ft tall with blonde hair and blue eyes. Now,

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Speaker 1: after high school, King David moves west to the land

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Speaker 1: of tall, blond people with blue eyes, California. And when

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Speaker 1: he gets there, you know, he has this idea that

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Speaker 1: he wants to be in movies. But of course he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have V star looks or a movie star talent,

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Speaker 1: so instead he goes into artists management, and he learns

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Speaker 1: early on basically like how to be a liar and

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Speaker 1: like to get ahead by being underhanded. And it's hilarious,

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Speaker 1: like when you read like magazine articles about David Geffer

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Speaker 1: or you watch documentaries, how often like this aspect of

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Speaker 1: his background is like romanticized and like even praised. It's

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Speaker 1: like quaint. It's portrayed as like quaint. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: he's not really criticized for this is always like oh wow,

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Speaker 1: isn't a cute like that he learned how to be

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Speaker 1: a huge liar when he was young. You know. The

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Speaker 1: story that I think is like the most famous from

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Speaker 1: this period is that, as you said, you know, he

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Speaker 1: applied for a job in the mail room at the

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Speaker 1: William Morris Agency, which was the big talent agency at

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Speaker 1: that time, and on his job application he lied about

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Speaker 1: graduating from u c. L A. Now, soon after this,

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Speaker 1: a colleague of Geffen's was fired for lying on his resume.

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Speaker 1: So Geffin starts to worry. Obviously, he knows that William

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Speaker 1: Morris at some point is going to do a background

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Speaker 1: check on him. They're gonna ask U c l A

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Speaker 1: for his transcripts, and he can't let the agency find

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Speaker 1: out about his lies. Geffen decides that he's going to

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Speaker 1: come into work early for the next six months, and

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Speaker 1: his goal is basically they like trying to intercept the

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Speaker 1: letter that he knows is coming from U c l A.

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Speaker 1: At some point. Well, one morning, the letter finally arrives

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Speaker 1: and David Geffen like steams it open, like he's like

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Speaker 1: in some like sitcom or something. I just picture, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a you know, an episode of like

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Speaker 1: Growing Pains, like where Mike Sieber is like trying to

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Speaker 1: cover up one of his scams from Alan Thick or something.

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Speaker 1: He steams open this letter, and of course the letter

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Speaker 1: inside says that we've never heard of David Geffen. David

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Speaker 1: Geffen takes that letter and he replaces it with a

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Speaker 1: letter that says that they do know who he is

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Speaker 1: and that you shouldn't be worried that he didn't lie

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Speaker 1: on his application. So this is a very elaborate scheme,

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Speaker 1: but it shows, I think the level of commitment that

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Speaker 1: David Geffen had to his own career and also his

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Speaker 1: lack of scruples, you know. He said later on in

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Speaker 1: an interview that he said, like, did I have a

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Speaker 1: problem with Lyne to get the job? None whatsoever. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he said that he learned that like lying was like

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Speaker 1: a big part of his job. Like he said, he

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Speaker 1: looked around at the agents there and he said, the

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Speaker 1: epiphany for me at William Morris was realizing, these people

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Speaker 1: bullshit on the phone. I can bullshit on the phone too.

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Speaker 1: So with that he was off and he really wanted

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Speaker 1: to be in the movies, but he was so young

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Speaker 1: that none of the film people were really going to

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Speaker 1: take him seriously, and so ultimately he was persuaded to

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Speaker 1: move into rock and roll because that's where all the

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Speaker 1: young people were, and he side acts like Jesse Culin

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Speaker 1: young and most amusingly to me, the young bloods who

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Speaker 1: had the song you know, come on people now, smile

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Speaker 1: on your brother, everybody get together, come and love one

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Speaker 1: another right now, that classic hippie anthem about peace and

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Speaker 1: love and all living together in harmony. I just love

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Speaker 1: how the band that was given that platform was David

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Speaker 1: fucking Geffen, probably his far away from that kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, peace and love. I think that you could

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Speaker 1: possibly get. I really enjoy that, but it's perfect. He

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Speaker 1: did have a tender side. Um. When he saw Laura Niro,

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Speaker 1: the incredible singer songwriter bomb at the Monterey Pop Festival

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Speaker 1: in ninety seven, he took her aside and bonded with

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Speaker 1: her just sort of fragile artistic self and became her

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Speaker 1: partner rather than her boss. He took her under his

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Speaker 1: wing and signed her to be her agent. At first,

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Speaker 1: this sort of paternal streak would endear him to all

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Speaker 1: sorts of sensitive artistic people around that way, before his

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Speaker 1: inner shark drove them away. Uh. He ultimately quit the

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Speaker 1: William Morris Agency and started his own, with Laura Niro

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Speaker 1: was his first client. Yeah. An important thing about David

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Speaker 1: Geffen I think is that while he has this reputation

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Speaker 1: for being like this cold hearted and even like unscrupulous businessman,

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Speaker 1: I think he was also like a legitimate music fan.

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Speaker 1: Like embracing someone like Laura Nero to me suggests that

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Speaker 1: he was honestly engaged with her music. You know, like,

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Speaker 1: like Laura Nero was this really talented artist, but she

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Speaker 1: was hardly like a conventional star, like as you said,

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Speaker 1: he saw her bomb at Monterey Pop. It would have

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Speaker 1: been very easy to just like let her slide out

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Speaker 1: of the music business at this point. But you know,

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Speaker 1: he could see that she was this idiosyncratic talent that

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Speaker 1: needed someone like David Geffen in her corner in order

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Speaker 1: to be a success. And I think that also explains,

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Speaker 1: you know, along with that sensitivity, that paternal aspect that

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Speaker 1: you were talking about before. I think that that genuine

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Speaker 1: music fandom is like why artists were also drawn to him, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was a shark, but he was a shark with

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Speaker 1: like legitimately good taste and talent. Yeah. I think Neil

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Speaker 1: Young would later say what it would endeared him to

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Speaker 1: Geffen was Geffen said that he loved the song on

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Speaker 1: the Way Home, the Buffalo Springfield song. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: knew the music. It wasn't just like he knew that

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Speaker 1: these guys want to make him a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: He genuinely loved them. Geffen had a bit of a

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Speaker 1: rivalry at the stage with another young agent named Elliott Roberts,

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Speaker 1: who was managing Joni Mitchell, and there was a bit

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Speaker 1: of a like your girl, my girl thing between you know,

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Speaker 1: Joni and Laura. But when Roberts was recruited to untangle Crosby,

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Speaker 1: Stills and Nash's solo contracts so they could record together.

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Speaker 1: He called on David Geffen for help, because Geffen had

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Speaker 1: a better head for these kind of contractual things. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And soon they formed their own management team, Geff and Roberts,

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Speaker 1: which sort of became the official management team of the

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Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon crowd. I mean all those incredible artists that

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Speaker 1: Crosby Stills, Nation Young Crew, Johnny Mitchell, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: Jackson Brown. Uh, so many folks. It was the place

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be. It was like a sort of

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Speaker 1: alternative company where where contracts didn't exist. It was all

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Speaker 1: you know, the the hippie ethic of like it's all

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Speaker 1: about your word. Well, Geffen in later years I would say,

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Speaker 1: I think it was in a documentary about his life

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Speaker 1: he would say, oh, yeah, they didn't want to be

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Speaker 1: with us who wanted them? So as far as he

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Speaker 1: was concerned, Uh, it was less about sort of the

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Speaker 1: hippie side. That was more Elliott Roberts, and he was

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Speaker 1: more just like, they want to be here, fine, screw him.

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Speaker 1: It was and their dynamic Elliot Roberts and Geffen. It

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Speaker 1: was a total good cop bad cop. I mean, Roberts

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Speaker 1: was the house hippie and Geffen was working the phones

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Speaker 1: and ensuring that these insensitive artist types were financially set

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Speaker 1: for life. It was a really great combo. Now, at

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Speaker 1: this time, David Geffen was like hanging out a lot

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Speaker 1: at the Trouper Door looking for new talent basically that

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Speaker 1: they could sign up to the Elliott Roberts agency. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we've talked a lot about the Trouper Door

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Speaker 1: in this series, and of course, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: this bar that was like the hub of like the

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Speaker 1: l A rock scene in the late sixties and early seventies.

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Speaker 1: And it's really like we're like a lot of the

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Speaker 1: as associated with David Geffen and Elliott Roberts started That bar.

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Speaker 1: Also reminds me of like one of my favorite David

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Speaker 1: Geffen documentary appearances, which takes place in this like really

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Speaker 1: great BBC movie called From the Birds to the Eagles.

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Speaker 1: Like you can find that on YouTube. Sometimes you might

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Speaker 1: have to do like a bit of a Google search

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Speaker 1: for it, but it is a great documentary about the

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Speaker 1: Little Canyon scene and how it changed as the seventies progressed,

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Speaker 1: and there's a scene in the movie like where David

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Speaker 1: Geffen is telling the story about how he wanted to

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Speaker 1: book the Folks singer named David Blue at the Trooper

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Speaker 1: Door and the club's owner, Doug Weston refused, and Geffen says,

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Speaker 1: if you don't book him, I'll start my own club,

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Speaker 1: and Weston says, you think you can start your own club?

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Speaker 1: And Geffen says a club. Yeah, I think I can

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Speaker 1: start a club. That is dead on by the way,

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Speaker 1: the way he says that it's great, Like he's so

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Speaker 1: indignant that like someone would think that he couldn't operate

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Speaker 1: a club. It's like, who do you think I am.

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Speaker 1: I'm David Geffen. Of course I can run a club.

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Speaker 1: Doug Weston apparently says fuck you to David Geffen and

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Speaker 1: hangs up the phone, which is the wrong thing to

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Speaker 1: say to David Geffin, Like you do not want to

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Speaker 1: get on David Geffin's bad side, because he then proceeds

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Speaker 1: to actually start his own club, which is called the Roxy,

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Speaker 1: and then that becomes the new hip club in l

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Speaker 1: A in the back half of the seventies. This story,

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Speaker 1: to me, it's kind of similar to I think what

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Speaker 1: happened a few years earlier with Asylum Records, which was

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Speaker 1: the record label that David Geffen ends up starting, because

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Speaker 1: the genesis of that is that David Geffin discovered this

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Speaker 1: singer songwriter, very handsome guy named Jackson Brown, that he

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Speaker 1: believed in, and he actually ended up taking him to

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Speaker 1: Atlantic Records, and the head of that label, very famous

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Speaker 1: guy named Ahmed Urigan, turned him down and he instead

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Speaker 1: encourage David Guffin to start his own label. And Urigan

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Speaker 1: basically said, this guy can make you a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of money, so why don't you

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Speaker 1: start a label so you can have a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: Which sound advice. That's a great quote. I've been waiting

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Speaker 1: my whole life for someone to say something like that

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Speaker 1: to me. Like I wish I could walk into Ahmed

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Speaker 1: Uragan's office and he could say that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of money, now you should make a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. So, just like in the nightclub example,

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Speaker 1: Geffen goes out, he starts his own business and creates

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Speaker 1: Asylum Records, which becomes immediately I feel like the hippest

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Speaker 1: record label of the early nineteen seventies. The lineup for

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Speaker 1: Asylum included Joni Mitchell, Jackson Brown, Linda Ronstat, Tom Wait's,

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Speaker 1: Judy Sill, and of course the Eagles. But I think

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Speaker 1: the artist that he was really counting on being on

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Speaker 1: this label, which his like original love in terms of

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Speaker 1: like a manager client relationship, and that was Laura Nero.

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Speaker 1: And Laura actually did not sign with him. She signed

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Speaker 1: with Columbia. And this was just like a terrible event

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Speaker 1: for David Geffen. He's talked in later years about how

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Speaker 1: he really felt hurt by this, and you kind of

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Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, this represents the point where David Geffen

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Speaker 1: is going full on shark, like, if there was any

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Speaker 1: heart in him before this, it's been broken and now

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Speaker 1: he's never going to let an artist break his heart again.

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Speaker 1: So it's really full steam ahead on like David Geffen

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Speaker 1: being wholly self interested at this point. And to Brown,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, plays a crucial role in the story,

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Speaker 1: not only as the catalyst for Asylum Records, but he

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Speaker 1: also tells Geffen about another group of guys who lived

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Speaker 1: upstairs from him and they had a band called Long

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Speaker 1: Branch Penny Whistle, and Jackson Brown said, oh yeah, these

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Speaker 1: guys are pretty good. Should check them out, and that

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Speaker 1: was Glen Fry and j D. Souther. Uh. Geffen liked

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Speaker 1: the musicians and he liked their sounds so much that

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Speaker 1: he bought their recording tract out from there, the small

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Speaker 1: label that they were on, Namos Records, out of his

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Speaker 1: own pocket, and he thought j D could hack it

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Speaker 1: as a solo guy. But he tells Glen Fry, you know,

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Speaker 1: you really need a band. So Glenn teams up with

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Speaker 1: Don Henley and ultimately Randy Miser and Bernie Lendon to

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Speaker 1: become the Eagles. The Eagles, particularly Don Henley and Glenn Fry,

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Speaker 1: were part of this sort of new breed of rock

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Speaker 1: and roll band who understood the business side and they demanded,

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Speaker 1: you know, what they thought was their fair share of

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Speaker 1: the financial action. This was years after, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the late fifties and early sixties, when artists were getting

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Speaker 1: ripped off left right in the center. They knew what

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Speaker 1: was up, and they knew it was entitled to him.

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Speaker 1: And this was attractive to Geffen. That least at first

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Speaker 1: he knew that he was gonna be fighting with these

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Speaker 1: artists too, you know, actually uh make a profit. He

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Speaker 1: knew that they were going to really lean into the

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Speaker 1: business side. And Geffen would say years later the Eagles

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Speaker 1: weren't gonna fail. It was a group that was put

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Speaker 1: together with clear intentions, So it wasn't gonna be like

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Speaker 1: years later with Neil Young when he's wrestling with Neil

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Speaker 1: to try to make a commercial product. He knew that

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Speaker 1: the Eagles were on his side from that standpoint, and

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Speaker 1: they were going to together make a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting when the four musicians did meet with Geffen

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Speaker 1: in his very fancy office, all three of the musicians

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Speaker 1: deferred to the more experienced and more direct Bernie Leaden

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Speaker 1: laden made the pitch, so you want us or not,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was I'm sure Geffen appreciated that that bluntness,

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Speaker 1: although despite Bernie's bluster, Glenn would later admit that, you know,

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Speaker 1: they would have done anything to sign on on Geffen's roster.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as we said earlier, that was the place

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Speaker 1: to be at this time. Yeah, And the appeal of

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Speaker 1: Silent Records again was that it was this label that

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Speaker 1: was very artists oriented. That you know that the name

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Speaker 1: of the label was supposed to suggest, you know, a sanctuary,

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Speaker 1: that this was a place that you could go and

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Speaker 1: you would be protected from the usual pressures that like

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Speaker 1: bands have to deal with when they're first getting started

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Speaker 1: in their music career. And you know, Geffen his sales

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Speaker 1: pitch of the Eagles was basically like, you worry about

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Speaker 1: the music and I'll take care of everything else. And

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Speaker 1: there's this story that's been told about how apparently like Geffen,

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Speaker 1: Henley and Fry were in a sauna together and like,

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Speaker 1: which is great. I mean, I'm just picturing this right now.

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Speaker 1: These three guys are in a sauna together, and like

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Speaker 1: Geffen's picture them was basically like, this company will never

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Speaker 1: be bigger than as many people as you can fit

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Speaker 1: in this sauna. And uh, it's a very seventies rock metaphor.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I love the idea of like lining

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Speaker 1: the size of your company to a sauna. You know.

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Speaker 1: I just picture like Harry guys with like gold chains,

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Speaker 1: sweating a lot and you know, just doing business in

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Speaker 1: this environment. It's a very funny and also it's like

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Speaker 1: slightly like gross image to me. But again, the idea

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Speaker 1: here was that this was not typical record label that

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Speaker 1: like you could make the records that you would want

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Speaker 1: to make. And yeah, like they all wanted to be successful.

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Speaker 1: But I think again like there was that combination of

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Speaker 1: like Geffen being this great businessman, but also having an

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Speaker 1: appreciation for the art, like the artist that he was

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Speaker 1: bringing onto his label. At least at this time, we're

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Speaker 1: all people that he personally liked, and I think that

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Speaker 1: belief in the Eagles music as well as his thinking

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Speaker 1: that these guys should actually be commercially successful, really led

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Speaker 1: Geffen like to give the Eagles, I think, the hands

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Speaker 1: on treatment early on in their career. And we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this in our previous episodes, but like Geffen was

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Speaker 1: instrumental and shipping the Eagles off to Aspen before they

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Speaker 1: made their first record to basically like get their act together,

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Speaker 1: you know, into into you know, jel was a band,

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Speaker 1: and get a good repertoire going. He was also a

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Speaker 1: big part in bringing Glenn John's into into the fold.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've talked in our previous episodes about how

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Speaker 1: Glenn John's initially wasn't that impressed by the Eagles and

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Speaker 1: didn't want to work with them, But Geffen was the

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Speaker 1: person that was really kind of pushing to get Glenn

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Speaker 1: John's into the band, and that really ended up paying

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Speaker 1: off on the first Eagles record came out in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy two, the self titled debut, which spawned those three

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Speaker 1: big hits that we've talked about in another episodes, take

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Speaker 1: It Easy, Witchy Woman, and Peaceful, Easy Feeling, and really

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Speaker 1: got the Eagles going in their career, and Geffer really

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Speaker 1: did a lot for them, and he went to bat

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Speaker 1: for them when they wanted to make their mature concept record, Desperado.

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Speaker 1: He let the band have their way and agreed to

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Speaker 1: bankroll this like really kind of expensive undertaking, including all

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Speaker 1: the artwork with all the elaborate Western costumes and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and he even he helped the band find this common look,

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Speaker 1: this western outlaw theme. Geffen saw the band is like

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Speaker 1: sort of this mystical Americana type group that he thought

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Speaker 1: was just perfect for branding. He thought it was it

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Speaker 1: was just a great marketing opportunity really because it just

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Speaker 1: sort of symbolized this American sense of freedom. But around

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Speaker 1: the same time, the band we're starting to really become

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Speaker 1: more disillusioned with Geffen. They would say that Henley would say,

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Speaker 1: were this album was us rebelling against the music business,

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Speaker 1: not society, And there's a famous back cover when the

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Speaker 1: band they're all looking like dead outlaws, all strung up

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Speaker 1: up at the feet, and then behind them are standing

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Speaker 1: all these guys dressed as the law who you know

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Speaker 1: in the concept of the album art looked like they

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Speaker 1: just like took them down. And it's all their their

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Speaker 1: industry people, it's all their managers, and Glenn John's is

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Speaker 1: there too, So it's definitely that you can sense that

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Speaker 1: kind of resentment setting in around Desperado, and they were

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Speaker 1: annoyed with Geffen because they thought he was giving too

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Speaker 1: much attention to other groups, one of them being America,

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Speaker 1: which they the band America, which they thought was sort

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Speaker 1: of in their lane. This American a loving harmony group,

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Speaker 1: and also Poco, who were both signed to Asylum without

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Speaker 1: the Eagles consent, and they thought that this was hitting

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Speaker 1: a little too close to them and kind of like

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Speaker 1: their lane was getting infringed on. And when Desperado tanked,

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Speaker 1: Glenn John's blamed Geffen, saying he was too distracted trying

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Speaker 1: to sign Bob Dylan, which would have been you know,

401
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 1: a massive coup at the time, then actually focusing on

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Speaker 1: his clients. So you have the Eagles starting to feel

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Speaker 1: discontent with David Geffen, and then you have David Geffen

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Speaker 1: also feeling this content with being a manager at this time,

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Speaker 1: you know, and he's talked about how he was basically

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Speaker 1: like protecting his artists, and this is a term that

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Speaker 1: he used, a river of ship, you know, from coming

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Speaker 1: down out of them. Like he felt like he was

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Speaker 1: like the bulwark from that river of ship consuming his clients.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he was around like watching all these

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Speaker 1: great artists basically succumbed to like drugs and paranoia as

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Speaker 1: like the early seventies became the mid seventies, and he

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Speaker 1: really felt like he was like their babysitter, and I

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Speaker 1: think he got a little burned out with it. So

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Speaker 1: this was around the time that like Warners became interested

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Speaker 1: in buying Asylum records, and when they made an offer,

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Speaker 1: David get basically just jumped at the chance. He got

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Speaker 1: offered two million dollars in cash and five million dollars

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Speaker 1: in Warner stock, plus the opportunity to stay on at

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Speaker 1: the label as president. So this is like a great

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Speaker 1: deal for David Geffen, but the artists on his label

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Speaker 1: were not pleased that Geffen did this. He basically broke

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Speaker 1: his sauna promise. You know, this was many more people

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Speaker 1: than could even fit in like the world's biggest sauna

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Speaker 1: at this point, and the Eagles were especially volc about

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Speaker 1: like feeling displeased because, you know, they wanted to be

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Speaker 1: on Asylum because they thought it was like a different

428
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of record label. They thought they would be protected from,

429
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of normal corporate pressures that like

430
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 1: most artists would have to deal with, and you know,

431
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 1: and Don Henley later said, you know, Asylum was an

432
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 1: artist oriented label for about a minute and then the

433
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: big money showed up, and then after that pretty much

434
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 1: everything changed. So they were upset about that. And I

435
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: think this was also around the time that they also,

436
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 1: i think realized that they didn't know as much about

437
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 1: business as they thought they did, Like, they started looking

438
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: at their deal and realizing, like a lot of bands

439
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 1: that like, they were kind of getting ripped off by

440
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: David Geffen. So they're starting to reach a breaking point

441
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: basically in their relationship with him. Yea, not only did

442
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 1: they feel betrayed, but they realized that their hands were timing.

443
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 1: Geffen was their manager, their publisher, and record company, so

444
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: there was no just no negotiation no phone call, no warning.

445
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he owned them, and they woke up and

446
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 1: according to what I've read, they just read about it

447
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: in the paper. Uh, and Henley would say, to be

448
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: sold like a commodity like pork belly or soybeans. Didn't

449
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: sit right. And Geffen offered no words of apology whatsoever.

450
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: I mean, he was fond of telling his acts, we

451
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,479
Speaker 1: are not partners. He didn't care about this blatant conflict

452
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: of interest that he was managing a band that was

453
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 1: signed to his own label and he owned they're publishing.

454
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: He didn't care at all. Yeah, I guess he like

455
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 1: got like half the money basically from the Eagles publishing,

456
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: as he did from like all of his artists. But

457
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: like around this time, like he actually gave his half

458
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: of Jackson Brown's publishing back to Jackson because he felt

459
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: that he owed Jackson Brown because Jackson Brown you know,

460
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 1: had been like one of his early artists. He had

461
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,160
Speaker 1: like hooked Geffen up with the Eagles and like other artists,

462
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: so you know, as a sign of goodwill, he gave

463
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown all this publishing. But unfortunately for David Geffen,

464
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: Jackson Brown told the Eagles about this and Uh, they

465
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: were not happy about it because it's like, why does

466
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: he get half of his publishing back, We should get

467
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: all of our publishing as well. Whereas I think David Geffin,

468
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: like when he heard about this, he just felt like

469
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: the Eagles were being ungrateful, you know, because again, as

470
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: we said before, like David Geffen was instrumental and like

471
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: setting up the Eagles. He had kind of positioned them

472
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: to be like this big American rock band, and without him,

473
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,959
Speaker 1: I think it's fair like when you look at it

474
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: from his perspective that without Geffen, I don't know if

475
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: the Eagles would have been as successful. On the other hand,

476
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if Geffen could have sold Asylum records

477
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: for as much money as he did were it not

478
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: for the success of the Eagles, Like we're one of

479
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: the biggest acts on the label at this time. So yeah,

480
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: we're in a pretty bad place right now in terms

481
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: of like David Geffin's relationship with the Eagles. We're gonna

482
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: take a quick break to get a word from our

483
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: sponsor before we get to more rivals. As you said earlier,

484
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: when he saw Asylum at this point, he just didn't

485
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: want to be in the in the management business anymore.

486
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: He was just tired of dealing with these people, Henley

487
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: would say in the History of the Eagles documentary, Geffen

488
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: was just tired of the responsibility and burden of making

489
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 1: people happy. And this opens the door for a young,

490
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: ambitious Geff and Roberts employee named Irving azo. Yes, and

491
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: Irving Azof has so many great nicknames. He's known as

492
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: Big Shorty, He's known as the Poison Dwarf favorite. He's

493
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: known just as Satan. He's been called Satan before. Uh,

494
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: you know, kind of reminds me of like that part

495
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: and walk hard. Like how Dewey Cox has so many nicknames,

496
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: Irving Azof is second only the Dewey Cox in terms

497
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: of colorful nicknames. Irving Azof got his start in the Midwest.

498
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: He was a manager of the band Ario Speedwagon, who

499
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: was like one of the big Middle American acts at

500
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 1: that time. When he started to have some success with

501
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: that band, he decided that it was time to leave

502
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: the Midwest and move out to the West Coast. And

503
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: when he was out there, he started getting involved in management.

504
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: He worked with the artist Dan Fogelberg. He got hooked

505
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: up with Joe Walsh. He's moving up the ladder in

506
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: the rock scene, and that brings him into the orbit

507
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: of like the Geffen Roberts world. And uh, once he

508
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: gets into that company, he realizes right away that the

509
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: Eagles are not happy. And because Irving as Off, like

510
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: David Geffen, is a shark and he could smell blood

511
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: in the water, he zeroes in on the Eagles and

512
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: he realizes that there's an opportunity here for him to. Uh.

513
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: Maybe you served David Geffen, and I think the difference

514
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: here and you spoke to this earlier that you know,

515
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: I think David Geffen was good for the Eagles early on,

516
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: because again, he was more of a paternal figure. You know,

517
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: he could take this band under his wing and really

518
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 1: nurture them when they were a baby band and they

519
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: needed to sort of grow and figure out who they were.

520
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: But you know, by the mid seventies, the Eagles were

521
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: a fully fledged entity. And I think that really opened

522
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: the door for someone like Irving as Off, who was

523
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: you know, closer to the age of the guys in

524
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: the band. And he was also a guy that like

525
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: would actually like party with the band. Like there's a

526
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: story about David Geffen that I love, where like he

527
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: had tickets to go to Woodstock, but he was watching

528
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: like footage of the festival with Joni Mitchell on television,

529
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: and he decided that it was too dirty, So like

530
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: he didn't go to Woodstock for that reason. Irving is Off, however,

531
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: like loved to get dirty. Like he was a guy

532
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: who would actually like get in the mix with people

533
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: like Joe Walsh and like trash hotel rooms and like

534
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: mess around with groupies and do all the things that

535
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: rock stars good to do. And I feel like he

536
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 1: probably really relished that because if he wasn't a rock manager, Like,

537
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: there's no way Irving AI's Off could have done any

538
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Again, he was the poison dwarf, you know.

539
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: I feel like he's like the nerdy guy that somehow

540
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 1: gets accepted by the cool kid click, which allows him

541
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: to do all these sort of wonderful things that under

542
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: normal circumstances he would never get to do. My favorite

543
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: Irving as Off stories when he was at some really

544
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: fancy restaurant in Los Angeles or Beverly Hills, Spago's or

545
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: something like that, and he thought that the service was

546
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: lacking and he wasn't getting the attention that he was due,

547
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: so he set his menu on fire and just waved

548
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: it around. I feel like that image of him and

549
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,959
Speaker 1: a fancy restaurant holding a flaming menu aloft is just

550
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: to me what I think of when I think of

551
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: Irving as off. Yeah, just like you know, brazen ass

552
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: whole behavior basically, you know, which is like, in a

553
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: way kind of lovable in this context. Like I have

554
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: a weakness for like knowingly sleazy music figures, you know,

555
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: like people in the music business who like don't make

556
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: any apologies for just being the absolute worst. Like there's

557
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: something kind of attractive like about that for me, Like

558
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want them in my life, but if they're

559
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: in a movie or if I'm reading about them, I

560
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: just find it irresistible. And yeah, like Irving is Off

561
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: and David Geffin are like at the top of like

562
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: the knowing sleeves bag music industry list. And once Geffen

563
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: sells Asylum and starts to back away from management, Irving

564
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: just starts to fill this power vacuum in the Eagles

565
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: life and given gives them the attention that they saw it,

566
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: and he alerts them to the numerous conflicts of interest

567
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: in their Geffen Roberts song on records legal quagmire, and

568
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: so eventually he founds his own management firm, Frontline, which

569
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: became basically the second half of the seventies what Geffen's

570
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Roberts was to the first. They signed Jimmy Buffett, Chicago, Steely,

571
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: Dan Boz Scaggs. And his first order of business as

572
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: the Eagles manager is to get the Eagles back there publishing,

573
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: and in doing so, he takes Geffen and Warner Brothers

574
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: to court UH alleging conflict of interest, and he saw

575
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: some ten million dollars in damages, and geffn claimed the

576
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: suit was a quote bullshit issue designed to extract the

577
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: new deal lot of Warners, and he said that he

578
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: gave Henley the half that he'd been own in the

579
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: first place, after buying out, you know, his early record

580
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: contract when he first became his manager in the early seventies.

581
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: It took two years of legal headaches. UH Warreners eventually

582
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: settled out of court and the Eagles got their copyrights.

583
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: I think at this point Geffen just mostly wanted to

584
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: be rid of the band. Gevin would later say Irving

585
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 1: as off went about his career in a way that

586
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: I didn't approve of. He thought it was good to

587
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: create distance between the clients and the record companies. He

588
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: created a sense of paranoia, and I always resented the

589
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: fact that he was responsible for two of the only

590
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: three lawsuits I've ever had in my life, one with

591
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: the Eagles and one with Don Henley. It's amazing was

592
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: only three, I know exactly. That seems like a low number.

593
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: I would have like put it at like thirty at

594
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: least with David geffin. But yeah, this is now the

595
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: period like where there's like open animosity between David Geffen

596
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: in the Eagles camp. But something then happens that like

597
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: the Eagles are initially upset about, but it ends up

598
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: being just a huge boon for their career, which is uh,

599
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: David Geffen, who again he's at Warners now and he

600
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: decides that he wants to put out the greatest hits

601
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: record for the Eagles, And you know, you look at

602
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: it at the time and it was kind of like

603
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: a strange move to do this because the Eagles, you know,

604
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: they've only been around for like, you know, like three years.

605
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: They had like four albums to their credit. They had

606
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: just put out like their most successful album up to

607
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: that point, which was One of These Nights. In It's

608
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: not really like a moment that you would expect for

609
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: like the Greatest Hits record to come out normally, that

610
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: is like at the end of a band's career, not

611
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: in the middle. And I think for the Eagles that's

612
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: why they took offense to this. You know, I think

613
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: artists in general kind of dread when their Greatest Hits

614
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: record comes out, because I think they take it as

615
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: a sign that they're on their way out the door.

616
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: But I think for the Eagles especially, you know, it

617
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: was a warranted feeling, like, you know, we don't need

618
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: the Greatest Hits treatment at this point. Besides, you know,

619
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: we believe in the sanctity of our albums. We want

620
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: people to revisit Desperado and One of These Nights and

621
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: on the Border. But Geffen goes forward with the Greatest

622
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: Hits record anyway. It comes out in seventy six. It's

623
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: of course called their Greatest Hits nineteen seventy one to

624
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: seventy five, and look, we've talked about it on this show,

625
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: but like this is one of the biggest albums of

626
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: all time. It was actually certified the best selling record

627
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. It's sold more copies than Thriller.

628
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: You know, just a huge success, and it really set

629
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: up the Eagles as they were getting ready to put

630
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 1: out Hotel California. It's like, once they put out that

631
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: record in conjunction with this Greatest Hits record, it really

632
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: just sent the Eagles into a whole new stratosphere. Where again,

633
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: this was a band that, for I think eighteen months

634
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: was selling one million records per month, you know. Between

635
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: Hotel California and this Greatest Hits record, I have to

636
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: say to that, Like, you know, I'm an album purist myself,

637
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: so I tend to avoid Greatest Hits records as a

638
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: rule because I think albums tend to stand better on

639
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: their own it. I revisited their Greatest Hits for this series,

640
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: and I gotta say that it is extremely well assembled.

641
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: Like the way that it's sequenced I think is really smart.

642
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: Like it's not just in chronological order, like it's actually

643
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: structured in terms of flow. And I don't know how

644
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: much input Geffen head on that, but like I really

645
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: think that like their Greatest Hits is like probably better

646
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: than any Eagles album. Like, with a lot of Greatest

647
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: Hits record you always feel like, oh I missed cut Yeah, yeah,

648
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: like I missed these kind of other songs that weren't hits.

649
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: I never get that feeling listening to the Greatest Hits record,

650
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: Like I feel like, oh, this is all you really

651
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: need from the Eagles, so kind of against their will,

652
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: Geffen gave the Eagles like this great gift. And this

653
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: is just one of the many reasons why you should

654
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: never question David Geffen in a matter of music business.

655
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean so after he he tosses off the best

656
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: selling album of the twentieth century. Uh. In the late seventies,

657
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: when the Eagles are going through their Hotel California renaissance, UH,

658
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: Gevin is actually backed away from the music industry to

659
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: pursue his long time dream in films, in the film industry.

660
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: And it's sort of an ill fate adventure. And it's

661
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: made even worse by this freak false cancer diagnosis and

662
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: for a few years at the end of the seventies,

663
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 1: he believed he was about to die, which still blows

664
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: my mind that that was able to happen. I think

665
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: in around nineteen eighty he learned that it was a

666
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: false positive test and he was not going to die.

667
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: And soon after he gets back into rock and roll

668
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: and he found Geffen Records and immediately starts pursuing huge

669
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: name artist John Lennon, John Joni Mitchell, uh and another

670
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: Geffen's Robert's mate Neil Young, and the ultimately led to

671
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: the third of Geffen's allegedly three lawsuits. Uh. And it's

672
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: possibly my favorite of the three. Can we get a

673
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: fact check on that three? By the way, I still

674
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: I still feel like David Geffen's lying here. There's gonna

675
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: be like another dozen lawsuits against David Geffen that were

676
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: buried at some point. First for a second of this episode,

677
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: well Capital three. Um, it's nineteen eighty one, and Neil

678
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Young gets into a fight with Reprise Records for not

679
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: promoting Reactor to his satisfaction. He also wanted it released

680
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: on a triangle shape album. I suppose for his for

681
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: his request, I don't really know why. Neil Young always

682
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: the best. Yeah, when we're back in Neil Young Country,

683
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: welcome everybody. So he ends up leaving his label of

684
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: thirteen years over this Reactor squabble, uh and Geffen's in

685
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: the process of starting his new label, and he offered

686
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: Neil total control, which is what something Neil desperately needs

687
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: at all times. Despite the fact that Elliott Roberts had

688
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: gotten him an even bigger deal at our ci A,

689
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: Neil went with Geffen because he wanted this control and

690
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: it seemed like a really obvious choice considering that Geffen

691
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: was his manager, Eliot Roberts's friend and longtime partner um

692
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: and early on Geffen said all the right things. I mean,

693
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: as as Elliot Roberts would later say, Neil is not

694
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: concerned with selling large numbers of records. He's concerned with

695
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: making records he's pleased with. Unfortunately, they're not always commercial

696
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: from the record company's point of view. But David Geffen

697
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: relates to that, and he did relate to that to

698
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: a point. Yeah. You know, the thing I said before

699
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: about David Geffen being in music fan like, I feel

700
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: like that really came back to haunt him, like in

701
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: the early eighties because he was signing all these like

702
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: huge name artists that like he I think he was

703
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: personally a fan of you know, I think he loved

704
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: Neil Young obviously a fan of John Lennon and Nelton

705
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: John and Joni Mitchell, but like these artists like were

706
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: no longer like in the prime of their career. Like

707
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: if you look at Geffen Records, like in like the

708
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: later eighties going into the nineties, you know, they had

709
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: huge success with like Guns and Roses and Aerosmith and

710
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: Nirvana and its basically because like the label started signing

711
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: bands that Geffen personally didn't care for but he knew

712
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: would sell a lot of records. And I wonder, like

713
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: to what degree he learned that lesson like from this

714
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: Neil Young debacle that he was about to get into.

715
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: You know, there was like a famous article at the

716
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: time where there was a joke in there they said,

717
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: what's the difference between Geffen Records in the Titanic and Uh,

718
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: the punch line is the Titanic had better bands, um

719
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: which and apparently like that was like fed to a

720
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: journalist by Irving as Off, which is like pretty hilarious

721
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: if that's true. You know, I really don't think the

722
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: problem is that the artists were bad on Geff. And again,

723
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: they just weren't really at a point in their careers

724
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: where they were selling a lot of records, and in

725
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: the case of Neil Young, I mean, he wasn't even

726
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: really trying, I think, to make commercial records at this time.

727
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: And it really kind of reached a peak of sorts

728
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: with the record trans which came out in two And

729
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm actually like a fan of this record. It's it's

730
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: very strange, but I think it's a pretty clearly like

731
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: personal record, and I think it has like a real

732
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: emotional residence because of that. You know, it was inspired

733
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: by Neil young son Ben, who has cerebral palsy and

734
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: he couldn't speak, and Neil was helping his son with

735
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: therapy at the time to try to help him with

736
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,959
Speaker 1: his speech, and those therapy sessions inspired the record, which

737
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: is this very sort of like heavy electronic record where

738
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: Neil is speaking like through a vocoder, sounds like a

739
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: robot wearing flannel essentially on this album. And you know,

740
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: David Geffen, he's expecting Neil Young to be making records

741
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: like harvest Ston after the gold Rush, and you know,

742
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned how Geffen loves the song like on the

743
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: Way Home, like all these beautiful kind of folky battleads

744
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: that Neil Young was writing in the seventies and trans

745
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: is definitely not that. So yeah, Kevin was not happy

746
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: when Neil Young turned in this album, and he also

747
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: wasn't thrilled with Neil's proposed follow up, which was like

748
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: a country album called Old Ways and give him more

749
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: or Less. Said he wanted some rock and roll and

750
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: no more of this craft work ship, and Neil said, Okay,

751
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: you want some rock and roll, I'll give you some

752
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: rock and roll, And the result was Everybody's Rocking, which,

753
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: despite being sort of warmly received when it was initially released,

754
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: also tanked. Yeah, can we just clarify that, like, um

755
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: that Everybody's Rocking? It's not like a crazy Horse record.

756
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: It's like Neil Young doing like kind of like fifties

757
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: rockabilly type music, and like, to me, like he was

758
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: basically trolling David Geffen. I think at this point totally

759
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, yeah, you want a rock and roll record,

760
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: I'll give you this like corny pastiche music that really

761
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with what I do, right, And

762
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: it also tanked, so Geffen sued him. He given Neil

763
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: Young a million dollars a piece for these two weird

764
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: albums that nobody wanted, and he really felt he took

765
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: it personally. He felt that Neil was intentionally giving him

766
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: substandard material more or less to just screw with them.

767
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: Elliot Roberts, an interview years later, would say that from

768
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: Geffen's point of view, it's like Neil Young can make

769
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: harvest to any time he wants. Why won't he make

770
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: it for me? He just he really took it personally. Meanwhile,

771
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: as you said earlier, Geffen is completely unaware that that

772
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: Neil is managing treatment for his son's health concerns and

773
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: just has other things on his plate. Roberts is trying

774
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: to make peace between the two, but there's nothing you

775
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: can do to keep Geffen and Neil Young from colliding.

776
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: And in November of Neil was served with papers requesting

777
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: damages and excess of three point three million dollars terming

778
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: trans and Everybody's Rock and quote not commercially or musically

779
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: characteristic of Young's previous recordings, and Neil, of course responded

780
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: in a very Neil like way. Uh, you'd say they

781
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: paid for me. They didn't pay for me to do

782
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: something which is incredible. It's incredible view from his perspective,

783
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: um for a time, he thought that the sole lawsuit

784
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: was funny until he realized that he needed money and

785
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to record because this lawsuit was suing him,

786
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: so he filed the counter suit, and the music press

787
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: really painted Geffen as the villain. I think Rim refused

788
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: to sign with Geffen a few years later, and they

789
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: specifically mentioned this lawsuit with Neil as the reason. And

790
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: Neil loved it. This was like the best press he'd

791
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: gotten in years, and the most press he'd done in years,

792
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: and he would say that this lawsuit was better than

793
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: a Grammy for him. So you know, we're going on this,

794
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: Neil Young Tangent. I think just to illustrate how much

795
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: had changed really with David Geffen from like the early

796
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: seventies to the early eighties. You know, as we talked

797
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: about before, when David Geffen was doing Asylum Records, he

798
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: was really known as this like artist friendly manager and

799
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: label had, you know, someone who was creating a sanctuary

800
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: for artists to create music away from the normal corporate

801
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: pressures that like other artists would have to deal with.

802
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: And he flashed forward a decade later and now he's

803
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: the epitome of like the you know, unscrupulous record head

804
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: who will like pressure artists into making what he called

805
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: harvest to you know, a sequel to a successful record

806
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: that Neil Young had already made. This relates now to

807
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: Don Henley's relationship with David Geffen in the nineteen eighties,

808
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: and it's kind of crazy to me that these two

809
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: guys hooked up again, considering like how like poorly the

810
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: relationship ended in the mid seventies. But like you know,

811
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: Don Henley was at a point in his career where

812
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: he put out his first solo record in two Can't

813
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: Stand Still, and it did pretty well, but he was

814
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: upset that that record didn't get what he felt was

815
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: sufficient promotion. So David Geffen actually like corded Don Henley

816
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: asking him if he would sign to Geffen Records, and

817
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: Henley would say later that, like, you know, David used

818
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: the same pickup lines, you know how much I care

819
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: about you, all that stuff, and and Henley admitted, like

820
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: I bought it the second time. So in eight four,

821
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: Don Henley puts out his first record on Geffen Records,

822
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: which is Building the Perfect Beast, huge record, lots of hits,

823
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 1: including The Boys of Summer, which Jordan's inexplicably hates and

824
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,879
Speaker 1: all she wants to do is dance. Sunsegre record goes

825
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: multi platinum, but you know there's trouble in paradise. Don

826
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: Henley inevitably starts to complain that he feels that now

827
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: David Geffen is not promoting his record enough, and he

828
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: ends up putting out the end of the Innocence in

829
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: That's a big hit too. But he's still feeling like

830
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: he has to fight for budgets for music videos, he

831
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: has to fight over artwork for his albums, and it's

832
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: just not really working out well for him. So like

833
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: by the early nineties, Don Henley is starting to feel

834
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: tempted by an offer from E M I to leave

835
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: Geffen Records and to sign with that label. The problem

836
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: for Henley is that he still had two albums left

837
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: on his contract at the time, so this leads to

838
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 1: a big fight with David Geffen. Geffen actually sues Don

839
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 1: Henley for breach of contract for thirty million dollars, and

840
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: Henley counters by saying that there's like this old studio

841
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: era like contract loophole. Basically that like if you are

842
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: signed with an entertainment company for seven years. The contract

843
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: expires after seven years. I don't know if that's actually true,

844
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: but this ends up being a legal argument that goes

845
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: on for years and years and years, and uh, it

846
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: gets pretty like brutal. Like at one point, like geffen

847
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: deposes Don Henley's wife, who like has ms and like

848
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: makes her travel like from Texas to Los Angeles, and

849
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: like asked her a bunch of questions and that she

850
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: doesn't really know anything about the business dealing. So like

851
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: that gets under Don Henley's skin. And I mean, this

852
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: is like some of my favorite parts of the Eagles

853
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: documentary because like this is like where David Geffin like

854
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: gets really like angry about Don Henley. Like at one

855
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: point he says, by nature, he's a mal content. He's

856
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: always been a mal content and that's just life, which

857
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: is great. But then and this is my favorite quote

858
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: maybe in the whole movie, which is saying a lot

859
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: because I have many favorite quotes from the history of

860
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 1: the Eagles, but like he's talking about irving A's off

861
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: because I think at some point, like doesn't I think

862
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: Henley like counter sees him at some point, like they're

863
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: just like lobbying lawsuits back and forth, and Geffen says,

864
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: and he says this in the documentary. He says, they

865
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: told Irving A's off, I'd sooner die than let you

866
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: fuck me, which is just awesome. So um, basically, I

867
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 1: think they ended up resolving this because this was around

868
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: the time that the Eagles We're going to get back together.

869
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: So I think the agreement was that they would put

870
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: out the greatest hits record for Don Henley and then

871
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: didn't Geffen get a piece of Health Freezes Over like

872
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 1: that reunion record? Yeah, I think it might have even

873
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: been on Geffen. I think that's incredible to me, Like,

874
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: after all of that, David Geffen got to put out

875
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: Health Freeze Is Over, which ended up being a huge success.

876
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: So like, after all of that legal wrangling, David Geffen

877
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: still managed to get like millions more dollars out of

878
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: the Eagles. It's fair to say. I can't think of

879
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: a time when he hasn't won. Geffen seems to always win.

880
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: My favorite part of this whole saga is also just

881
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: regardless of Henley, Geffen and Azof had their own tiff

882
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: all through the eighties. I mean, I really think it

883
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: was Azof that fed the journalist that line about the

884
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: difference between Geffen Records and the Titanic is that Titanic

885
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: a better bands. I mean, they had this great little

886
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: like caddy thing in the press for the whole decade. Uh.

887
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: During Geffen's movie studio detour in the late seventies, Aisof

888
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: pretty much supplanted him as the most feared music industry

889
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: figure in Hollywood, and he added to his legend by,

890
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, trashing hotel rooms like we mentioned, and lighting

891
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: that menu on fire at that restaurant. On another occasion,

892
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: he had a messenger deliver alive Boa Constrictor to a

893
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: lawyer that he was feuding with, which is amazing. It

894
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: was how he had it delivered to this guy on

895
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: his forty birthday with a that included an unkind note

896
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: about his wife. So really, you know, he's a terrifying man.

897
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: And the Eagles were effectively fine with this. I mean,

898
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: during the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, they

899
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: famously said of Irving, he may be Satan, but he's

900
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: our Satan. Like we said at the top of the episode,

901
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: that's a compliment coming from them. But but even Geffen

902
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: was taken aback by his business approach, and there he

903
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: was interviewed for a uh music business exposse called hit

904
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: Man Great Book. Geffen said that Aisof is devilish, and

905
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: that's interesting on some level, but not nearly as interesting

906
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: as intelligence or charm or wit or real true ability.

907
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: He thinks that in order to be powerful and important,

908
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: you have to funk with people or frighten them or

909
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: be awful to them, which I find unacceptable behavior. Oh, yes,

910
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: and I think that's hilarious coming from David Geffen. Yes, yes,

911
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: David Geffen doesn't think it's right to be feared in

912
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: the music industry. He's taking a stand against that. One

913
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: wrinkle in this like you know sidebar with Geffen and

914
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: A's off has to do with like asof stint at

915
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: m c A Records, because he ended up like taking

916
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: over like the head job at that label, and it

917
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: was at a time where m c A was like

918
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: in like the dull drums financially and as basically like

919
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: rescued the label. Like he ended up basically gutting most

920
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: of the artists roster, you know, clearing out all this

921
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: deadwood that you know, they weren't selling records anymore. And

922
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: he kind of gradually like built this record label back up,

923
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, had a great run there, and

924
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: then by the end of the eighties he ended up

925
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: like going to Warner Brothers to like start his own

926
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: label called Giant Records. So you think, like, wow, this

927
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: is like a great triumph for Irving as Off. He's

928
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: like turned around so other record label. Now he gets

929
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: to start his own label, and he's like making millions

930
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: of dollars in the meantime. But there's like this theory

931
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: that like David Geffen was like engineering this whole thing

932
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: that like he got Irving as Off to leave m

933
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: c A because m c A was the label that

934
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: ended up buying Geffen Records, and he knew that, like

935
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: if Irving as Off were there, you know, he would

936
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: have never given David Geffen hundreds of millions of dollars

937
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: for his label. But like somehow Geffen pulled off this

938
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: like machiavellians like maneuver that he could get like A's

939
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: Off out of m c A and then get someone

940
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: else in there who like would buy Geffen. I mean,

941
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's even possible, but again, this

942
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: is David Geffen. Like if anyone could do that, Like

943
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: he could do that. So I don't know, I don't

944
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: know what you think about that, like if he actually

945
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: if you think he actually pulled that off. Oh, I

946
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: absolutely choose to believe it. I'm just doing this show

947
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: right now, like that he would somehow hear this and

948
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: has has bugs in this. I mean, I yeah, I

949
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: I absolutely have no doubt in my mind that he's

950
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: somehow engineered that and maneuvered that and it made him

951
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: obscenely rich. I think Geffen was sold for something like

952
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: five fifty million dollars worth of stock and by it

953
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: made him a billionaire. And yes, Irving as Off, it's

954
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: worth noting, is also obscenely rich. Yeah, they're both rich.

955
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: They're both guys. I pictured them like uh, Michael cor

956
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: Leone at the end of The Godfather Part two, you know,

957
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: like where he's like killed all of his enemies, he's

958
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: like murdered his brother. He's like rich and powerful, but

959
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: he's just like sitting alone in that chair, you know,

960
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: looking forlorn. Like you feel like these guys like they

961
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: were all about winning, but like in the end, like

962
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: how happy are they really? Deep down? My sense is

963
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 1: that like when you have people that are like that ambitious.

964
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: You know, you can't never be happy because you're always

965
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: going to be striving for something else. Like the thing

966
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: that drives ambition is dissatisfaction with your current place in life.

967
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: And uh, to me, like this is like a great

968
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: way to end our Eagles episode because there's something very

969
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 1: Eagles e about that, that idea that you can win

970
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: and be hugely successful and in the end still be

971
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: a miserable s ob All right, hand, we'll be right

972
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: back with more rivals. We've now reached the part of

973
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: our episode where we give the pro side of each

974
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: part of the rivalry. Let's talk about David geffin first, Um, look,

975
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean I think David Geffen is clearly like one

976
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: of the great rock managers of all time and along

977
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: with you know again, he's a cold hearted businessman. He

978
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: learned how to lie early on. But I also think

979
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: that he had like a genuine affection for artists and

980
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: he had really good taste and like certainly in the

981
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: early seventies, that taste did him very well. He associated

982
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: with I think some of the best artists in Los

983
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: Angeles at that time, and Asylum Records really was I

984
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: think a great label for that era. And also he's

985
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: just like one of my favorite people to see in

986
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: a documentary being interviewed. Like you would think a man

987
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: as successful and powerful as David Geffen would maybe like

988
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: more diplomatic or politically correct in like in a documentary,

989
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: but like he's not. Like he lays it all out,

990
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: Like he has these grudges that he's held for decades,

991
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: and like he's not shy about like just going after

992
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: people that did him wrong, like in the seventies or eighties.

993
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: And I love that about him. Again, if you see

994
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: David Geffen in a documentary, get a bowl of popcorn

995
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: because it's gonna be a great show. He lacks any

996
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: sense of joy whenever he's on camera. You think that

997
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: David Geffen at this stage it's always done in the

998
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: billions of dollars in the bank there, he would just

999
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: let some of that stuff go. But you're right, it's

1000
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: still you see that flash in his eyes that he's

1001
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: just as pissed as he was fifty years earlier. And

1002
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: you're right. That's one of the things I love about him.

1003
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: I and I think that, like I said at the

1004
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: top of the episode, I think Geffen was the perfect

1005
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: manager for the Eagles at the start of their career.

1006
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean he was the gatekeeper, I think, in a

1007
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: lot of ways to the whole Laurel Canyon Musical Clubhouse,

1008
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: and by teaming with someone who had that level of power,

1009
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,959
Speaker 1: it gave the Eagles a really unprecedented amount of level

1010
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: ridge in the industry. Um. I think that the big

1011
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: studio systems and the sort of cigar chopping managers of

1012
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: the early sixties had given away to these more you know,

1013
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: like I'll call them the sauna organizations, these sort of

1014
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: more egalitarian, hippie like businesses that were operating into the

1015
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: guys of almost like a hippie commune type thing. I

1016
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: think the Eagles and Geffen both knew which way the

1017
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 1: winds were blowing, and they knew that rock was about

1018
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: to become an even bigger business that had been in

1019
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: the sixties, and they really leaned into it. I mean,

1020
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: there wasn't like Crosby Stills a Nash who were more

1021
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: concerned about, you know, about integrity or um reputation among

1022
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: their peers. They were fine with it being a business.

1023
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: So I think that they were bonded by this mutual

1024
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: shared interest with Geffen giving them all kinds of leeway

1025
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: with advances and creative freedom and securing them Glenn John's

1026
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: and it worked really great until business interest is diverged.

1027
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: So if you go over to the pro Eagles and

1028
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: I guess irving as off side, I mean, look, I

1029
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: think it's clear that the Eagles were probably right to

1030
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: separate from Geffen when they did. You know, I could

1031
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: see that David Geffen, for as much you know, care

1032
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: as he had given to the early part of their career,

1033
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: he was in a way kind of ripping them off.

1034
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 1: Like the Eagles did not have a very good deal,

1035
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: and they had reached a point in their career like

1036
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: where they could negotiate and move on and make more

1037
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: money than they did early on. And you know, irving

1038
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: A's off to me, you know, he's not as cool

1039
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: as David Geffen. Like again, like I when I see

1040
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: Irving A's off in documentaries, he has more business like

1041
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: he's a little bit more laid back. He doesn't have

1042
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 1: that like Satan's side that he seems to have in

1043
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: his business dealings. But he was much more of like

1044
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: a rock and roll guy. You know, he was parting

1045
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: with the bands he was trashing hotel rooms. He seemed

1046
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: again as as you were saying before, it seemed like

1047
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: he was like the right guy for like that part

1048
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: of the Eagles career, you know, basically like Irving, he's

1049
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: off to me, he's like Jack Nicholson and a few

1050
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: good men. Like you might not like him, but like,

1051
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: if he's your manager, you want him on that wall.

1052
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: You need him on that wall. He's the satan that

1053
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: you don't want to face and you wish was on

1054
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: your side. Yeah. I always thought that Irving as Off

1055
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 1: was like Geffen if Geffen just did a ship load

1056
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 1: of cocaine. I mean, in my opinion, Geffen ultimately wanted

1057
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: to control an empire, you know, he's King David, Whereas

1058
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: I always thought Irving Aisoff like to control people. And

1059
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: I think that was the difference between him. I mean,

1060
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: Geffen bailed on artist management at the earliest opportunity, whereas

1061
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 1: Aisoff ended up going back to artist management after his

1062
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: lengthy spell as a label chief. And I was thought

1063
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 1: that was really interesting, Uh, you know, without someone as

1064
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: attentive as Irving at the end, I think that the

1065
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: Eagles could have floundered, almost like the Beatles after the

1066
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 1: death of Brian Epstein. I think in the end he

1067
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: out geffened Geffen of at least of all the Geffen acolytes,

1068
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: but of course not Geffen himself. You will never out

1069
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Geffen the Geffen. So when we look at all these

1070
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: guys together, you know, I'll go back to something I

1071
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: said at the top of the episode, which is that,

1072
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, for most bands, we have no idea who

1073
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: the managers are. We don't care because you know, rock

1074
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: managers for the most part, are like pretty boring their

1075
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: business types. You know, they're they're they're supposed to like

1076
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: bleed in the background and keep the focus on the

1077
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: art us. But the Eagles story is so rich and

1078
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: chaotic and crazy and has so many like, you know,

1079
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: great bastard characters in it that like, we want to

1080
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: hear about the managers. We want to hear about the

1081
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: money men behind the scenes, and you know, people like

1082
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: David Geffen and Irving as Off they just add another

1083
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: layer of enjoyment for like talking about this band. You know, like,

1084
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad that these guys ultimately are as big a

1085
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: bastards as they are, because if they weren't, they just

1086
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't belong in the story of the Eagles, Oh absolutely.

1087
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: And you know, I have to wonder if the Eagles

1088
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: Beheemoth was just sort of too unwieldly and just chaotic

1089
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: in their in their inner workings to whether not only

1090
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: that insane level of success and musical industry changes in

1091
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: the seventies, but just I almost feel like two separate

1092
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: sets of management is what they needed to extend their

1093
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: life as a band, you know. I mean, Geffen provided

1094
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: that ignition, but azof kept them going in the long run,

1095
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: or at least as long as their intra band hatred

1096
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: would allow. Uh See. I like how you slipped a

1097
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: little pun there at the end. I appreciate tried. You know.

1098
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: I have to say I'm a little choked up right

1099
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: now because I've had so much fun talking about the Eagles,

1100
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: and this series has just been like one long, hard

1101
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: road out of Eden. But we're finally at the end,

1102
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: and I'm a little sad about that. But you know,

1103
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: there's always more feuds and beefs to talk about Jordan's

1104
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,959
Speaker 1: So that's the silver linning I'm looking at right now,

1105
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: And I can't wait to get into more rivalries with you,

1106
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 1: and we will be back next week with another episode

1107
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 1: where we talk about beefs, feuds, and long simmering resentments.

1108
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: See You then. Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio.

1109
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Shawn Titone and Noel Brown. Supervising

1110
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: producers are Taylor Koin and Tristan McNeil. The producers Joel Hatstat,

1111
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like

1112
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review.

1113
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I

1114
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1115
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: your favorite shows