WEBVTT - Decentralizing the Music Industry

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberghart podcast, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday, November. Hey, y'all, Stacy Marie here. Because of

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<v Speaker 1>the Thanksgiving holiday in the US, we are representing one

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<v Speaker 1>of our previous recordings for the holiday. If you're celebrating,

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you have a good day. Thanks for listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Earlier this year, the pop music d you are known

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<v Speaker 1>as The Chain Smokers, released five thousand non fungible tokens

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<v Speaker 1>to fans for free. These n f t s gave

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<v Speaker 1>fans a one percent cut of the streaming royalties from

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<v Speaker 1>their latest album, as well as priority access to concert

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<v Speaker 1>tickets and free merchandise. The Chain Smokers might not be

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<v Speaker 1>the first musicians to experiments with crypto n f t

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<v Speaker 1>s or the blockchain, and it's unlikely they'll be the last.

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<v Speaker 1>What artists and musicians like the Chain Smokers hoping to

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<v Speaker 1>achieve with these moves, and how are fans responding. In

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, you'll hear from Bloomberg Reports Hannah Miller and

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<v Speaker 1>from Justin blowm the CEO of Royal a decentralized music startup.

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<v Speaker 1>What if the public could actually own rights in their

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<v Speaker 1>favorite artist music. My DJ name is Blow, which is

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<v Speaker 1>also my last names. That's Justin Blow a k A.

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<v Speaker 1>Three Law a k A. The CEO of Royal Royals

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<v Speaker 1>the Stars Up. That's trying to give fans more access

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<v Speaker 1>and more investment opportunities in the bands they love. His

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<v Speaker 1>company partnered with the chain Smokers to give their fans

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<v Speaker 1>a stake in their success, they say, by creating and

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<v Speaker 1>offering up n f T s that allow that share

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<v Speaker 1>of stre eeting ownership. Justin joins me now, Justin, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for joining us today. Awesome, thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for having me. Can you tell me a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more about the history of Royal Yeah, absolutely so. I

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<v Speaker 1>was really interested in the intersection of crypto and music

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<v Speaker 1>about for the past eight years now, and I've been

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<v Speaker 1>experimenting with lots of different things. Did some of my

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<v Speaker 1>first early n f T experiments, and Royal is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of just the amalgam of different manifestations that I've that

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<v Speaker 1>I've thought about over the past call it eight years,

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<v Speaker 1>um in ways to disintermediate music and give artists more power,

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<v Speaker 1>give fans financial upside in an artist success. Now, when

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<v Speaker 1>you say dis intermediate music, what exactly do you mean.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people are stuck in the

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<v Speaker 1>illusion that music doesn't make money. You've seen that the

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<v Speaker 1>media narrative quite often um when in reality music generates

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<v Speaker 1>quite a bit of money, especially on streaming, which makes

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<v Speaker 1>about of all recorded music income. It's just the who

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<v Speaker 1>are capturing that income are our institutions and the institutions

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<v Speaker 1>that have owned rights over years and years and years

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<v Speaker 1>and years of time, decades of time. So what we

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<v Speaker 1>think about it, Royal is what what if the world

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<v Speaker 1>was a bit different? What if the public could actually

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<v Speaker 1>own rights in their favorite artists music, so that you

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<v Speaker 1>have a combination of labels, artists and fans co owning

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<v Speaker 1>songs that they love. So when I hear you say

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<v Speaker 1>the folks who have been benefiting are like the big

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<v Speaker 1>institutions Spotify shaff crisis tanked over the last year. They're

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<v Speaker 1>facing stiff competition from Apple Music is the world's most

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<v Speaker 1>valuable company, pivots more aggressively towards kind of the ecosystem

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<v Speaker 1>of services. But look for Spotify, the most important asset

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<v Speaker 1>is artists. So if we see more complaints coming forward

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<v Speaker 1>that could be a major problem for the streaming service.

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<v Speaker 1>But what about the musicians themselves, Like, how does Royal

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<v Speaker 1>help the musicians or does Royal help the musicians in

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of framework. Absolutely, I think the most important

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<v Speaker 1>way Royal health musicians. And this is kind of, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>leaning a little of it into my background as a musician,

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<v Speaker 1>is that with blockchains and immutable, transparent data, any artists

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<v Speaker 1>can actually see who owns their tokens and interact with

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<v Speaker 1>those particular people. In the regular world with Spotify and

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<v Speaker 1>with you know, ticket you know Ticketmaster, all these different services,

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<v Speaker 1>artists don't actually participate in any of the data collection

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<v Speaker 1>that they help generate. So for music specifically, I might

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<v Speaker 1>have done over a billion streams, I have no idea

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<v Speaker 1>who my top listeners are. For ticketing, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>might have sold over millions of tickets in my career,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have no idea who those people are. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't have the data. So what's really interesting about block

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<v Speaker 1>chains is for for tokens, artists can actually identify their

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<v Speaker 1>audiences and communicate with them in a way more efficient way.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to pick up on something you said. They're

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<v Speaker 1>about transparency, I don't know of anyone who would ever

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<v Speaker 1>describe the music industry is like a paragon of transparency

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<v Speaker 1>or probably not, you know, clarity about how things work.

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<v Speaker 1>What has been the reception of this fairly radical idea, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, with folks that you've been working with and

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<v Speaker 1>talking to. You know, we're lucky that it's been so

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<v Speaker 1>insanely positive, both but both on the kind of artist

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<v Speaker 1>side and the existing the existing industry player side. I

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<v Speaker 1>think everybody's really excited about this technology, and they're curious

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<v Speaker 1>how it might benefit their their incentives and their ends. Um. Realistically, right,

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<v Speaker 1>having a more transparent, immutable data structure for music is

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<v Speaker 1>probably good for all parties, right, And so the world

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<v Speaker 1>is just kind of beginning to explore how it might

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<v Speaker 1>apply to their specific niche of music. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>while Royal does focus specifically on artists, we believe in

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<v Speaker 1>a future world where people could co own all types

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<v Speaker 1>of I P. Now, in this potential future world where

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's multiple different models. Different people could be owners,

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<v Speaker 1>people could be producers, and you know that more traditional

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<v Speaker 1>but of course also forward looking sense of the term.

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<v Speaker 1>This perhaps assumes that n f T S as an

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<v Speaker 1>element of crypto, like have legs right that people are

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<v Speaker 1>going to continue to be interested in this. We are

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<v Speaker 1>talking right now in a period when you know, n

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<v Speaker 1>f T s have had a bit of a challenging run.

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<v Speaker 1>Much like pretty much every other asset class in crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>once red hot, n f T s are now cooling

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<v Speaker 1>off a bit. The secondary market for the majority of

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<v Speaker 1>people's paintings today is down from the peak, as is

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<v Speaker 1>most an f T art. What is it about the

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<v Speaker 1>model that you're proposing that works despite other pressures in

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<v Speaker 1>the market, or does this work despite other prostos in

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<v Speaker 1>the market. That's great, Absolutely, that's a that's a wonderful question.

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<v Speaker 1>I think at Royal we've we've never really considered ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>an n f T platform. We consider ourselves a platform

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<v Speaker 1>that enables anyone to invest in music, and we just

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<v Speaker 1>so happened to use crypto rails to make that possible.

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<v Speaker 1>We just so happened to use the technology behind non

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<v Speaker 1>vungerible to cans to make that possible, because it actually

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<v Speaker 1>becomes more efficient um for payouts, for transparency, for all

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<v Speaker 1>the other kind kind of reasons that we've we've briefly

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<v Speaker 1>touched on in the past. I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the concept, no matter what you apply crypto to, it

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<v Speaker 1>has to solve a real world problem, right. Um. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people kind of leverage the technology and talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it in the sense of, you know, whether it's

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<v Speaker 1>investable or not. Um. Even even a board eight right,

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<v Speaker 1>which is arguably one of the most well known type

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<v Speaker 1>of n f T s UM. The image itself is

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<v Speaker 1>not the n f T. Right, So there's this giant misconception,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the n f T. Well, the n f

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<v Speaker 1>T is a certificate of authenticity, and why are certificates

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<v Speaker 1>of authenticity valuable? UM? For tons of reasons? Right. So

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<v Speaker 1>the underlying technology isn't going anywhere. I think that we

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<v Speaker 1>we've all established that. I think that some of the

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<v Speaker 1>brands and the most recognizable projects will ebb and flow

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<v Speaker 1>with the times um. But the most powerful aspect of

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<v Speaker 1>it is again the ability to you know, authenticate ownership

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<v Speaker 1>of digital types of assets, and that something that we

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<v Speaker 1>really haven't seen in the past that we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>see a lot of development in the future, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about authenticity, verification, validation. We've had episodes

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<v Speaker 1>where we interviewed Nicola Julia, who's CEO of so Rare,

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<v Speaker 1>which you know provides like this kind of service, but

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<v Speaker 1>for fans of fantasy sports UM and sports based on

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<v Speaker 1>real teams. We have talked about, you know, situations in

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<v Speaker 1>which n f t s give people access to real

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<v Speaker 1>world experiences. And that's also something that in the chain

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<v Speaker 1>Smoker's concept UM you'll provide it right where it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>the owners of these tokens, and there were five thousand

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<v Speaker 1>of them, didn't only get access to streaming revenue, they

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<v Speaker 1>got tangible other non financial benefits. Can you talk a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about those. Yeah. I think the beauty

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<v Speaker 1>of tokens is once they exist on a blockchain, the issuer,

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<v Speaker 1>whether that's an artist or a team, can kind of

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<v Speaker 1>provide whatever benefits they want to. The beauty of cryptois

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<v Speaker 1>that it's composable, it's you know, the architecture of it

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<v Speaker 1>enables anyone to build on top of it, so you

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<v Speaker 1>could even be another artist and still engage the chain

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<v Speaker 1>smokers fans by looking at all the wallet addresses that

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<v Speaker 1>have interacted with the actual chain smoker token set right,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's it's all transparent. You can see everyone who

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<v Speaker 1>owns it. UM. The non anonymity of each owner is

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<v Speaker 1>up to the owner, right, Like they can choose to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, identify themselves on the Internet, or they can

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<v Speaker 1>choose to remain anonymous. But the beauty of tokens in

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<v Speaker 1>general is that once they exist, they're not going anywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>and anyone can interact with them. So the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, creating real world utility, whether that's tickets or

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<v Speaker 1>other types of social engagement, extras, exclusive content, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're really just seeing the beginning of that development as well. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, fan clubs in the past haven't always been

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<v Speaker 1>the most successful model for achieving you know, additional value

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<v Speaker 1>for an artist or for a team or for a musician.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you begin to wrap your head around when

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<v Speaker 1>when when the public begins to wrap it's head around

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<v Speaker 1>this concept of co ownership, the incentives are aligned in

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<v Speaker 1>such a stronger way. At the beginning, you said, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that there's this really popular misconception that there's no

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<v Speaker 1>money in music. What's another misconception that you're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>address with Royal Interesting, Yeah, I mean I think another

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<v Speaker 1>misconception is maybe more along lines of like what the

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<v Speaker 1>technology is capable of um at Royal, were we try

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<v Speaker 1>to be realistic in that you know, the tech is

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<v Speaker 1>still developing and there are a lot of challenges as

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<v Speaker 1>we go. UM, so we we really attempt to make

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<v Speaker 1>it as easy as possible for a user to get engaged. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>People have the misconception that crypto is really hard and difficult,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, it's easy to get hacked, things could

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<v Speaker 1>be a scam, etcetera. You know, we we've heard that

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<v Speaker 1>over and over again in the media and at Royal.

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<v Speaker 1>What we do is quite simple. We keep it very familiar,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can log in with an email and password

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<v Speaker 1>and you can pay with a credit card, and we

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<v Speaker 1>do that in order to show people how easy it

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<v Speaker 1>is to get engaged in the crypto ecosystem without even

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<v Speaker 1>knowing that it's cryptop. So I would say those are

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<v Speaker 1>the two big conceptions that we challenge. Last question, what's

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<v Speaker 1>your DJ name? My DJ name is blow which is

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<v Speaker 1>also my last name. There's a three in in my

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<v Speaker 1>DJ name. I was in college and that was we

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<v Speaker 1>all did that. It was that the whole thing. Oh yeah, excellent, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate you

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<v Speaker 1>taking the time. Thank you. Next up, Bloomberg reporter Hannah

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<v Speaker 1>Miller joins me for a look at how n f

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<v Speaker 1>t s are reshaping the relationship between artists and their fans.

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<v Speaker 1>So what exactly are artists like the Chain Smokers and

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<v Speaker 1>platforms like Royal hoping to achieve by giving fans a

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<v Speaker 1>piece of ownership in the band's success, and how are

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<v Speaker 1>fans responding? Joining me now for more on this is

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg reporter Hannah Miller. Hannah, you are back. Welcome. Always

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you on the pod. Hi, thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>having me today. We're going to talk about n f

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<v Speaker 1>t s, which you know, I feel like we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about n f t s a lot, and specifically, what

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<v Speaker 1>I want to hear from you is about the story

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<v Speaker 1>that you wrote about the Chain Smokers. Now, I confess

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<v Speaker 1>I had not exactly listened to any of their music

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<v Speaker 1>before I read your story, so I had to go

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<v Speaker 1>and study up before we recorded this episode. But now

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<v Speaker 1>that I have, and clearly you have, what is it

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<v Speaker 1>that the Chain Smokers have been up to in the

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<v Speaker 1>blockchain space. Yeah, well, they released a new album called

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<v Speaker 1>so Far, So Good, and basically this album was connected

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<v Speaker 1>to an n f T where if you own this

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<v Speaker 1>n f T held this n f T you would

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:37.240
<v Speaker 1>get a very small sliver of the audio streaming royalties

0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.800
<v Speaker 1>from the album, which was pretty cool. And it was

0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 1>not really that surprising that it was the Chain Smokers

0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 1>doing this because they are totally into crypto, They're totally

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.920
<v Speaker 1>into web three. They actually have a venture fund called

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Mantis that has made some pretty big investments in the space,

0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, some really notable names like Moon Pay, Magic,

0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.160
<v Speaker 1>eden Um, So it kind of just fits overall that

0:12:58.200 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 1>they would do something like this with their new alb

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.880
<v Speaker 1>them fascinating. I mean, I'm very interested in the ways

0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.880
<v Speaker 1>in which crypto and venture capital and music and musicians

0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.760
<v Speaker 1>and DJs, even if those musicians are cover bands, are

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.600
<v Speaker 1>merging into What sounds like one conversation in the reporting

0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 1>of that story and others that you've done, what do

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>you think are some of the trends that are causing

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:24.839
<v Speaker 1>all of these factors to converge. Yeah, I think people

0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 1>are constantly looking for sort of mainstream use cases for crypto,

0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 1>and when it comes to n f T s like

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty easy to see, you know, fun things that

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you can use them for, whether it's art, collectibles, gaming,

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.440
<v Speaker 1>things like that, and they really do fall into the

0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 1>category of music. So we've seen multiple projects try to

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.959
<v Speaker 1>define what a music n f T is. Like there's

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 1>some decentralized music streaming platforms. There's platforms like Royal, which

0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:55.679
<v Speaker 1>is the one that helped make the n f T

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 1>tied to royalties that the Chain Smokers released. Um, you know,

0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:01.679
<v Speaker 1>there are all these different projects that are kind of

0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 1>trying to figure out how can we best use crypto,

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 1>blockchain n f t s with music And is all

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 1>of this coming from the musicians? Is it coming from

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>venture capital is it coming from those platforms you mentioned,

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Like what's the direction of all this innovation? Yeah, it's

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a total mix. Um, we've seen some pretty big names

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.000
<v Speaker 1>get really excited, um about music, n f t s,

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.000
<v Speaker 1>music and blockchain. I'm thinking here like Snoop Dogg, Steve Aoki. Um,

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 1>these are people who have you know, created their own

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.080
<v Speaker 1>platforms or have argued for the importance of music n

0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 1>f t s. And then you have venture capitalists jumping

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 1>on board as well, who are willing to pour a

0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of money into these projects. They're willing to you know,

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.040
<v Speaker 1>really back something that we're kind of still figuring out

0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 1>what exactly the best use for blockchain is in music.

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>So a couple of last things before you go. When

0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 1>we think about blockchain, when we think about crypto, and

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.480
<v Speaker 1>we think about n f t s. Something we've also

0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 1>discussed is this this tension between centralization and decentralization, right

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>where on the one hand, you've got these theories that

0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 1>are about we're not going to have centralized control manifest

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 1>in this space, but actually what you see instead is

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.720
<v Speaker 1>specific companies, specific platforms, specific venture capitalists that are very

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 1>centralized and do have a lot of power. Are you

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.480
<v Speaker 1>seeing anything, especially in music and music and f t

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.880
<v Speaker 1>s that is looking more like something decentralized or are

0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.920
<v Speaker 1>we still really dealing with concentration here. Yeah, Well, part

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 1>of why artists are seizing upon blockchain in the music

0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>space is because they want to take back control of

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>their art, their music away from the music industry itself.

0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>The music industry takes a huge cut of artists streaming revenue,

0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 1>so something like a decentralized music platform would in theory

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 1>allow an artist to have a more direct relationship with

0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 1>their fans. So that's like a lot of the push

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 1>here that they're sort of decentralizing in the sense that

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 1>they're moving away from the control of huge music companies

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's more direct between artists and you know fan, Okay,

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm a fan, or if I were a fun and

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 1>I like to chain Smokas, the chain Smokas has a

0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>decentralized platform. Maybe I'm also a fan of the Winkle

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Bye cover band. They have a decentralized platform. I want

0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 1>to listen to Snoop, He's on a different decentralized platform.

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 1>How is that not annoying for me as a fan

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 1>having to due all of these work to listen to them. Yeah,

0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 1>because we're still trying to figure out which is going

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>to be the biggest decentralized music streaming platform. There are

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.960
<v Speaker 1>some names out there like Audience is one. I think

0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty interesting, but yeah, it's gonna be quite the

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 1>battle to get people to consolidate on one platform and

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 1>also to actually get artists on board with blockchain. While

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 1>you have people like Snoop Dogg and Steve Aoki really

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>cheering this on crypto and blockchain and tease, there's still

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.640
<v Speaker 1>scary concepts to a lot of people. Crypto is still

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.919
<v Speaker 1>a very complex thing that a music artist might not

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.840
<v Speaker 1>even want to get into. So it's gonna be, I think,

0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.360
<v Speaker 1>an uphill battle to try and get people to come

0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.439
<v Speaker 1>over and really embrace this technology. Thank you, Hannah. You

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:18.840
<v Speaker 1>can find more of Hannah's reporting on the Bloomberg Terminal,

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg dot com and on Twitter. She's at h G. Miller.

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.640
<v Speaker 1>On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto, you'll hear from

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 1>two of our Crypto editors for our Editors Roundtable tomorrow.

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.200
<v Speaker 1>I'll be joined by Anna Errera in London and Philip

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Blagger Kransa in Zurich. We'll talk through this week's highs lows,

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.360
<v Speaker 1>the biggest stories of the week, and answer any questions

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>books have sent in. I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael and this

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.399
<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio, visit

0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 1>the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.119
<v Speaker 1>get your podcasts. Email your questions, comments, or suggestions for

0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.200
<v Speaker 1>the show to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net, and you'll

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>find us on Twitter at Crypto. The supervising producer of

0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky very Galina. Our senior producer is

0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Janet babin Our producer is Mohammed Peru. Our producer is

0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Sharon Burriro, our associate producers of Zanam Sidehi, Thie Butler

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 1>and Moses and um Desta wonder At is our engineer.

0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Original music by Leo Sidron. Special thanks to Justin Blow

0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.119
<v Speaker 1>for his track Worst Case