WEBVTT - The DOJ Under Siege: Former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder Sounds the Alarm

0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, I don't want to keep you all day,

0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:08.520
<v Speaker 1>and we have so much to talk about, so let's

0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.600
<v Speaker 1>get started. Should I call you ag Holder? Attorney General Holder,

0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Your highness, your highness?

0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.920
<v Speaker 2>You? Hey? You? Eric is fun? Eric is fine? How

0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:17.239
<v Speaker 2>about that?

0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Hi? Everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question.

0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.960
<v Speaker 1>You probably know Eric Holder is President Obama's Attorney General.

0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.800
<v Speaker 1>But the question I have is how is he feeling

0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:38.800
<v Speaker 1>watching the actions of the Trump administration unfold, especially given

0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.559
<v Speaker 1>the fact he spent almost his entire career at the

0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.639
<v Speaker 1>Department of Justice. There was no shortage of things to discuss.

0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:51.479
<v Speaker 1>The dismantling of the DOJ, the LA standoff between Gavin

0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:56.120
<v Speaker 1>Newsom and Donald Trump, immigration, voting rights, the First Amendment,

0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama, the role of the media, the role of

0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:03.280
<v Speaker 1>the public, and protecting democracy. We even waxed poetic about

0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Eddie Haskell. Yeah, that's right and Lumpy. Hey. I warned

0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.840
<v Speaker 1>you there was a lot to talk about. Here's my

0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:17.440
<v Speaker 1>conversation with former Attorney General Eric Holder. Eric Holder, It's

0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.600
<v Speaker 1>a real privilege to be able to talk to you

0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.280
<v Speaker 1>at this very important moment in our nation's history. I

0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.800
<v Speaker 1>guess the question is where do we begin. We've seen

0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.720
<v Speaker 1>so many things happen in recent months. I'm just curious

0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.640
<v Speaker 1>on a personal level, how you have been able to

0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.360
<v Speaker 1>process what we are all witnessing.

0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a hard thing to process, and I

0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.880
<v Speaker 2>don't think that we should process this as we process,

0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, changes in administration, differences in policies that happen

0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.200
<v Speaker 2>as a result of the outcome of elections. What's happening

0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.320
<v Speaker 2>now is not normal. It's not normal. I've served in

0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.640
<v Speaker 2>the Justice Department under Republican as well as Democratic attorneys general,

0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.320
<v Speaker 2>and what's going on, for instance, at the Justice Department

0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.880
<v Speaker 2>now is unprecedented. And what you see this administration doing

0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.600
<v Speaker 2>with regard to a whole range of things, attacking universities,

0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.760
<v Speaker 2>attacking the media, attacking law firms. These are all the

0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.120
<v Speaker 2>kinds of things that you would expect to see in

0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.960
<v Speaker 2>a nation that is moving towards authoritarianism. And it's certainly

0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:26.239
<v Speaker 2>inconsistent with who we say we are, you know, as Americans,

0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.480
<v Speaker 2>and what our system of government is supposed to be like.

0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.960
<v Speaker 2>So it's a hard thing to process. But to the

0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.800
<v Speaker 2>extent I've been able to, I put myself in opposition

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.520
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's where everybody has to be. Unless

0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:42.320
<v Speaker 2>we are forceful in our opposition, visible in our opposition,

0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:47.320
<v Speaker 2>this administration will run rough shot over that which defines

0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.840
<v Speaker 2>this nation and makes this nation exceptional.

0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.280
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you about the Justice Department because

0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.600
<v Speaker 1>I think for most outsiders it is still kind of

0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.960
<v Speaker 1>a mystery about how it works and functions and the

0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.000
<v Speaker 1>people who were there. Can you describe what has been

0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:09.560
<v Speaker 1>happening at the DOJ because I report on it piecemeal,

0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.160
<v Speaker 1>But can you tell us sort of holistically what is

0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:18.000
<v Speaker 1>going on there and the impact of what's happening.

0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, you only have to look at kind of, you know,

0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.200
<v Speaker 2>some specific things to get a sense of what's going

0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:27.040
<v Speaker 2>on there. The firing of career employees that never happens.

0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.480
<v Speaker 2>You know. I started in the Justice Department when I

0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:30.800
<v Speaker 2>got out of law school, in the thing called the

0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Public Integrity Section, which investigates corrupt politicians, and I tried cases,

0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, all around the country. At the end of

0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.200
<v Speaker 2>the Bida administration, are about thirty people in that section

0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.240
<v Speaker 2>now there are four four. The voting section in the

0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Civil Rights Division had about I guess about thirty thirty

0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.520
<v Speaker 2>five employees lawyers. It now has about five these people

0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.240
<v Speaker 2>have been fired, moved to other positions, meaningless positions, or

0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.119
<v Speaker 2>encouraged to take early buyouts, and essentially kind of squeezed out.

0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.760
<v Speaker 2>So the Justice Department is not doing things in a

0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:11.400
<v Speaker 2>way that other justice departments under Republican or Democratic presidents

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.920
<v Speaker 2>or Attorney's general you know, have ever done. The Justice

0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Department has pulled itself away from cases that had already

0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.919
<v Speaker 2>been filed in Texas with regard to some voting rights issues,

0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.360
<v Speaker 2>just pulled itself out of a case that had already

0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:30.119
<v Speaker 2>been filed and the Justice Department was participating in. Among

0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the most disturbing things Katie is the fact that this

0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.239
<v Speaker 2>Attorney General doesn't seem to understand that the Justice Department

0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.440
<v Speaker 2>has to stand to some degree separate and apart from

0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.840
<v Speaker 2>the White House. She views herself as Donald Trump's lawyer

0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.600
<v Speaker 2>and used the Justice Department as an arm of the

0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:52.280
<v Speaker 2>White House. And the best ages are the ones who

0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.919
<v Speaker 2>guard jealously the independence of the Justice Department, given the

0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.600
<v Speaker 2>ability that the Department has to deprive people of their

0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.240
<v Speaker 2>liberty of their property, and you can't make those decisions

0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.839
<v Speaker 2>on the basis of political considerations. And that's my biggest

0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.440
<v Speaker 2>fear they will remake the department, they will move out

0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.480
<v Speaker 2>people who are steeped in its traditions, and then simply

0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.320
<v Speaker 2>do Donald Trump's bidding.

0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.600
<v Speaker 1>And all the King's forces and all the King's men

0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.080
<v Speaker 1>will not be able to put it back together again

0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:20.760
<v Speaker 1>even when he leaves office.

0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.919
<v Speaker 2>Potentially, that's a big concern. There's going to certainly have

0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.440
<v Speaker 2>to be a rebuilding effort. But I think in some

0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.520
<v Speaker 2>ways that is for me, the silver aligning. There's the

0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.479
<v Speaker 2>potential here to not only rebuild, but to try to

0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.080
<v Speaker 2>reimagine what government could look like, not only the Justice

0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Department but the other agencies as well. What should a

0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty first century Justice Department look like? You're going to

0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.120
<v Speaker 2>be coming in in twenty twenty nine, I hope a

0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.400
<v Speaker 2>new Attorney General looking at the carnage that would be left,

0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.000
<v Speaker 2>and so maybe you just don't put people back in

0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the same places, in the same numbers, but you try

0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.040
<v Speaker 2>to figure out, well, what is it that a twenty

0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.760
<v Speaker 2>first century Justice Department ought to be about, and you

0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.200
<v Speaker 2>staff it up, you prioritize it with you know, with

0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.680
<v Speaker 2>that in mind, that is a That's what I try

0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to think of as a silver lining. But make no

0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.960
<v Speaker 2>mistake between now in January of twenty twenty nine, there's

0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:14.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot of damage that's going to be done not

0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.640
<v Speaker 2>only to the Justice Department, but other executive branch agencies

0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:18.120
<v Speaker 2>as well.

0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.440
<v Speaker 1>And it has already been done, right.

0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Has already been done. I mean, you know the kinds

0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.920
<v Speaker 2>of things where you essentially dismantle, you know, the Agency

0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:29.640
<v Speaker 2>for International Development. It's kind of like whoa what, you know,

0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:34.960
<v Speaker 2>a congressionally mandated and funded agency that they simply close down.

0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:38.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, the little knotheads that doge walking around and saying,

0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.680
<v Speaker 2>for whatever reason, we're going to disband to this agency

0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.000
<v Speaker 2>which projects soft power for the United States.

0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Also, the people who are monitoring waste, fraud and abuse,

0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.960
<v Speaker 1>which is public enemy number one for the Trump administration.

0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.080
<v Speaker 1>The people who are charged with investigating abuse have all

0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:58.240
<v Speaker 1>been fired, right.

0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.240
<v Speaker 2>The inspectors general, you know, all but to let go.

0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.000
<v Speaker 2>And so you can almost see how this is playing out.

0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.080
<v Speaker 2>We'll remove all of the people who are supposed to

0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.640
<v Speaker 2>monitor these kinds of things, all the folks who might

0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:14.840
<v Speaker 2>be looking either outwardly or inwardly at potential matters of corruption,

0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.280
<v Speaker 2>and so then we have a free hand to do

0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.200
<v Speaker 2>that which we want to do.

0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.760
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned Pam Bondi's belief that she's Donald Trump's personal lawyer.

0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.679
<v Speaker 1>I want to read a quote from The Guardian which

0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.640
<v Speaker 1>sums up I think the current state of the DOJ.

0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Some say that the Department has in effect become Trump's

0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.280
<v Speaker 1>personal law firm. Since taking office the second time, Trump

0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.000
<v Speaker 1>has relied on staunch loyalists Pam Bondi and an elite

0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.480
<v Speaker 1>group of Justice Department lawyers to investigate critics from his

0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:49.560
<v Speaker 1>first administration plus political opponents, and curb prosecutions of US

0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:54.280
<v Speaker 1>business bribery overseas. Ex prosecutors point to how Bondi and

0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:59.200
<v Speaker 1>the department's top lawyers have halted some major prosecutions, fired

0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.360
<v Speaker 1>or forced out laws who didn't meet MAGA litmus tests,

0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.720
<v Speaker 1>and were instructed by Trump to investigate a key Democratic

0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.960
<v Speaker 1>fundraising vehicle as examples of how Trump and Bondi have

0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.800
<v Speaker 1>politicized the Justice Department. You know you were President Obama's

0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Attorney general for six years from two thousand and nine

0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.040
<v Speaker 1>to twenty fifteen. You know, I think the Justice Department

0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.120
<v Speaker 1>correct me if I'm wrong. Has often been accused of

0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:28.200
<v Speaker 1>being overly political. If you think about you know, RFK

0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.240
<v Speaker 1>being the Attorney General for JFK or Ed Meese right,

0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.160
<v Speaker 1>and Ronald Reagan, and I think there's been criticisms that

0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Merrick Garland was too careful and too a political and

0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:45.720
<v Speaker 1>dragged his feet. But this is a whole new level

0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:51.360
<v Speaker 1>of the politicization of the Department of Justice. And as

0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:56.480
<v Speaker 1>you're watching this, I just wonder what you're thinking and

0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:01.000
<v Speaker 1>how angry you're getting and how you're figuring out what

0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:03.680
<v Speaker 1>can be done, as you mentioned twenty twenty nine, but

0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.000
<v Speaker 1>it's a long way until then.

0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a harder thing to say politicization as opposed

0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.800
<v Speaker 2>to what it is that they're doing, because they're politicizing

0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.440
<v Speaker 2>the department and have done so relatively quickly. But they're

0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.720
<v Speaker 2>not politicizing the Justice Department. They're weaponize the Justice Department.

0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.520
<v Speaker 2>They're using the Justice Department to get at the perceived

0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.480
<v Speaker 2>enemies of the president. And they're not necessarily enemies. There

0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.640
<v Speaker 2>are political opponents. They're critics or people who potentially might

0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:34.480
<v Speaker 2>have the capacity to oppose him in some ways. And

0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.720
<v Speaker 2>so this is unbelievably disturbing. I mean, this is a

0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.880
<v Speaker 2>cornerstone of our our system of government, that you have

0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.840
<v Speaker 2>a justice department that, although a part of an administration,

0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:51.560
<v Speaker 2>still maintains a healthy dose of independence. Yeah, ags get

0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.920
<v Speaker 2>criticized all the time for doing things that are perceived

0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.520
<v Speaker 2>to be or said to be political, and most of

0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:02.520
<v Speaker 2>the time that's just political rhetoric. Justice departments that actually

0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.640
<v Speaker 2>do do things on the basis of politics are the

0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.280
<v Speaker 2>ones that get in trouble. Those are the ages who

0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.080
<v Speaker 2>get indicted, are who are not looked upon favorably by history.

0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.959
<v Speaker 2>History is not going to be kind to Pambondi. History's

0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:15.680
<v Speaker 2>not going to be kind to the people who serve

0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.920
<v Speaker 2>under her in the Justice Department now, because they're doing

0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:24.360
<v Speaker 2>things inconsistent with the best traditions of a department, an

0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.040
<v Speaker 2>organization that means the world to me. I grew up

0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.360
<v Speaker 2>in the Justice Department. I grew up in that place,

0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, out of law school line lawyer, US attorney,

0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.679
<v Speaker 2>deputy Attorney general, attorney general. Most of my career has

0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.600
<v Speaker 2>been spent in the United States Department of Justice, and

0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.080
<v Speaker 2>it tears me apart to see what they're doing and

0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.199
<v Speaker 2>tearing apart that very institution.

0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you about what's going on in Los

0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Angeles if I could, because obviously that is dominating the

0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:55.440
<v Speaker 1>headlines right now. After several days of protest against immigration

0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.040
<v Speaker 1>enforcement raised by Ice. As you well know, President Trump

0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.280
<v Speaker 1>bypassed Governor Gavin Newsom and called up four thousand National

0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Guard troops and a battalion of seven hundred marines to

0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:12.000
<v Speaker 1>the city of Los Angeles. Legally and historically, how extraordinary

0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 1>is this move?

0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Legally, it's an interesting case as to you know, I'd

0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.440
<v Speaker 2>think California has sued, and it'll be interesting to see

0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.440
<v Speaker 2>exactly how the case plays out. But historically this is

0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:28.559
<v Speaker 2>something that runs counter to our traditions and counter to

0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the practice that past presidents have used. You know, when

0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.920
<v Speaker 2>a president has called out the National Guard without the

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 2>request of a governor. Well, you think back to you know,

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the sixties, when I guess President Johnson called out the

0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.800
<v Speaker 2>National Guard to protect the Selma to Montgomery marchers out

0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 2>of concern that George Wallace and you know, the state

0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.679
<v Speaker 2>troopers there who cracked John Lewis's head on the Selma

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Edmund Pettis Bridge might not have the marcher's best interest

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.480
<v Speaker 2>at heart. So you can see something like that happening here.

0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.600
<v Speaker 2>There's no basis to believe that the state and local

0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.800
<v Speaker 2>authorities can't handle what's going on. I think this administration

0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.760
<v Speaker 2>is itching for a fight. They want to do things

0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.240
<v Speaker 2>that are going to antagonize people who are using their

0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.079
<v Speaker 2>First Amendment rights to protest the immigration policies of the administration.

0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.319
<v Speaker 2>They want pictures to show people in the streets doing

0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, negative things. And to be fair, there are

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 2>people who need to be held accountable. You know, people

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.840
<v Speaker 2>who are throwing things at cops, people who are you know,

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 2>saying negative things to cops, physically confronting.

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.719
<v Speaker 1>Them, burning up cop cars, things like that.

0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 2>Those people ought to be in jail. They're thugs, you know,

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.280
<v Speaker 2>they're hooligan. They need to be in jail.

0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:45.800
<v Speaker 1>They're exploiting the situation.

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Right, So there is that, But the vast majority of

0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the people who are protesting are simply doing so in

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.599
<v Speaker 2>a peaceful way. Now, so I don't, you know, countenance

0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.480
<v Speaker 2>people who are doing things that physically harm cops, you know,

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.679
<v Speaker 2>block traffic on major thoroughfares. It's also that's counterproductive at

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day. And you know, people waving

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>flags of foreign nations think about this. I mean, how

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 2>if you have you want to get the American people

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 2>on your side and I think as regard to these

0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 2>immigration policies, the American people are appalled at what this

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.000
<v Speaker 2>administration is doing. But they're also kind of pushed back

0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>by some of the tactics that are being used by

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 2>some of these demonstrators. But this is all political. This

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 2>is all political. I mean to put you know, to

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.800
<v Speaker 2>call up National guardsmen and then they call up marines. Now,

0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 2>these marines do a great job at what it is

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.120
<v Speaker 2>that they do. I would bet that crowd control is

0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 2>not something that the United States Marine Corps is trained

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 2>to do. And so that's just an incendiary kind of

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 2>thing that Whiskey Pete and Donald Trump have decided that

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 2>they want to do.

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you think they're intentionally trying to escalate the tension

0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 1>and create chaos instead of diffusing it asolutely.

0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 2>They want to antagonize, escalate and get the pictures that

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 2>they want, which is to show you know, people hurling things,

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.240
<v Speaker 2>setting cars of fire, blocking traffic, you know, doing all

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>those kinds of things to try to convince people. As

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Steven Miller said that there's a war of civilizations going on,

0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>what the hell does that mean? You know, really, I mean,

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:30.400
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to you know, we got criticized. President Obama

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 2>was criticized of being the deporter in chief. If you

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 2>look at what it is that we did. We use

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 2>the courts to get people who have recently come to

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the United States, the immigration courts get them out, and

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 2>then we went after people who committed serious crimes. We

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't take four year old girls who were in the

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 2>potentially going to die and deport them to Mexico. We

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't take people who've been here. There was a waitress

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I think in Missouri, been here for twenty years, pull

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 2>her out of her, you know, place of employment, and

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 2>try to send her back. This is an administration that

0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 2>views certain immigrants in certain ways. If these people we're

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 2>trying to get in from Norway, from Sweden, from Finland,

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>from Northern European countries, any problem with that, I bet

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.680
<v Speaker 2>you know Afrikaners. Yeah, we're letting those folks in from

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>South Africa. But if you happen to be Hispanic, if

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 2>you happen to be a person from Haiti, from you know,

0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.480
<v Speaker 2>African countries, we don't want those people. They don't want

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 2>those people in this country. And that's what that's kind

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 2>of the the underpinnings of their immigration policy, and that's

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 2>why Miller talks about this clash of civilizations.

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>So you think it's racism pure and simple.

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Not pure and simple. But there's a component to that,

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean racism, ethnicism. I guess that you might call it. Yeah,

0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean you'd have to be reluctant to look at that,

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 2>which is fairly obvious, you know. I mean, you send

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 2>a plane to get I don't know, was it fifty

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.160
<v Speaker 2>sixty Africanas out of South Africa. You insult the President

0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>of South Africa.

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.640
<v Speaker 1>In the show a photo from Congo, from Congo.

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 2>That's got nothing to do with South Africa. It's all

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.680
<v Speaker 2>laying up predicate for the kinds of things that they

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 2>want to do with our immigration system, again inconsistent with

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 2>how America has always said it is and by and large,

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 2>how we've always conducted ourselves when it comes to immigration.

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>At the beginning of the twentieth century, you know, it

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:41.840
<v Speaker 2>was Italians and Irish who negative things were set about,

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and they would try to try to keep them out

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 2>of the country. Chinese Exclusion Act. Now, these are not

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 2>great moments in American history, and I fear that we're

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.440
<v Speaker 2>replicating that in the twenty first century under this administration.

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.439
<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, it's Katie Curic. You know I'm always on

0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the go between running my media company, hosting my podcast,

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 1>and of course covering the news, and I know that

0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.200
<v Speaker 1>to keep doing what I love, I need to start

0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.120
<v Speaker 1>caring for what gets me there, my feet. That's why

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 1>I decided to try the Good Feet stores personalized arch

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>support system. I met with a Good Feet arch support

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>specialist and after a personalized fitting, I left the store

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 1>with my three step system designed to improve comfort, balance

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 1>and support. My feet, knees and back are thanking me already.

0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 1>Visit goodfeet dot com to learn more, find the nearest store,

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:57.000
<v Speaker 1>or book your own free personalized fitting. What's frustrating to

0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 1>me is it shows the inability of our government to

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.840
<v Speaker 1>actually tackle a problem. There should have been comprehensive immigration

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>reform long ago, and yet time and time again it

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 1>never is able to gain traction. And we need a fair,

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 1>humane immigration system in this country. And why can't Congress,

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 1>Why can't they come up with a better plan that

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.160
<v Speaker 1>is fair to people but also involves laws.

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, President Bush, George W. Bush certainly tried, right.

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy and McCain tried there.

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.879
<v Speaker 2>You know, Congress Senator Langford from Oklahoma came up with

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 2>a bill that you know, made people on the other side.

0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Democrats swallow hard, but said, you know, we'll support that.

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>And what happened. Donald Trump said, no, don't vote for that.

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.440
<v Speaker 2>He wants the issue. He wants the issue. This is

0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.560
<v Speaker 2>a central part of his administration. It's been a central

0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.160
<v Speaker 2>part of his campaigns. When he wrote down that old

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and escalated to announce his candidacy back in August twenty fifteen,

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.919
<v Speaker 2>he talked about, you know, Mexicans are rapists. They're not

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.240
<v Speaker 2>sending us their best. This has been a part of

0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 2>his stick and he'd rather have the issue than the solution.

0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 2>But you're right. I mean, we have got to come

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>to grips with the fact that we have millions of

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>undocumented people here who have contributed, you know, mightily, who

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 2>pay taxes, who pay Social Security taxes, who are part

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>of the fabric of this nation. They need to be

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.439
<v Speaker 2>treated fairly. But at the same time also recognize that

0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.879
<v Speaker 2>borders mean something, and we can't take all of El

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Salvador and all of Guatemala and all Upondors into the

0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 2>United States. There are processes that people have to go through.

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.680
<v Speaker 2>If they don't follow those processes well as we did

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.679
<v Speaker 2>in the Obama administration, they need to be removed. But

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:50.879
<v Speaker 2>there is the need for and there has been the

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.240
<v Speaker 2>need for comprehensive immigration reform for decades.

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.680
<v Speaker 1>At this point, having said that, this is not the

0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 1>solution to just in a very draconian an inhumane way,

0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 1>take people who have been in this country, as you said,

0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.359
<v Speaker 1>who are paying taxes, you know, money's going into the

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:13.359
<v Speaker 1>Social Security system, who are actually really important for our economy.

0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Forty eight percent of agricultural workers are undocumented, and you know,

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.040
<v Speaker 1>look at the nation's hotels and you look at all

0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.040
<v Speaker 1>kinds of workers. I think I heard there are a

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 1>million undocumented workers in Los Angeles. You know, if all

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.880
<v Speaker 1>of these people are forced out of the country, it's

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 1>going to have a huge impact on the economy, is

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:33.439
<v Speaker 1>it not.

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm going to have a huge impact on the economy.

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.160
<v Speaker 2>There are certain industries that rely a great deal on

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.919
<v Speaker 2>immigrant labor, from meatpacking in Iowa to people who are

0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.760
<v Speaker 2>picking crops in Florida and in California. But you know,

0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.199
<v Speaker 2>we're also turning our back on our immigrant past. And

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 2>here's the deal. Everybody who's listening to this, watching this,

0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.639
<v Speaker 2>You know you're an immigrant stock unless you are descended

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 2>from the Native American people. If you're the waspiest person

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.159
<v Speaker 2>in the world, if you can trace your roots to

0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:08.880
<v Speaker 2>the Mayflower. Guess what those folks who came over here

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 2>were immigrants. They were fleeing religious persecution. And it's just

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the question of how you got here and when you

0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.680
<v Speaker 2>got here. And it's always seems to be that the

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.719
<v Speaker 2>latest are the ones who get villified and then they become,

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:25.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, assimilated into our society, and then you know

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 2>they're fine. And so you know, Trump and his folks

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:34.240
<v Speaker 2>are trying to recreate an America that really never existed

0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.760
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen fifties America. You know where June Cleaver was

0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:41.120
<v Speaker 2>was vacuuming in high heels and in pearls, their white

0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 2>picket fences, no gay people, no.

0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Black people, making an after school snack for Beaver Rally

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>and Lumpy and Lumpy.

0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.760
<v Speaker 2>And Eddie Haskell is Eddie Haskells not.

0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Forgetting thank you, missus clean.

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Missus clever. He's my man. I love that guy.

0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>We're clearly the same generation.

0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.639
<v Speaker 2>Eddie was the man, definitely the me.

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.280
<v Speaker 1>He was such a kiss ass. I couldn't stand him.

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh I love that guy.

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:07.200
<v Speaker 1>I was a lumpy girl.

0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh ump, lumpy Rutherford.

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, anyway, we digress.

0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's important stuff, you know.

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you Eric about Kilmar Obrega Garcia,

0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.840
<v Speaker 1>who was wrongly deported to El Salvador earlier this year

0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 1>despite a court order barring his removal. So finally he

0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:31.200
<v Speaker 1>comes home, right, and now he's facing these newly unsealed

0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:36.040
<v Speaker 1>federal charges. I am so confused by this. Can you

0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 1>help me out?

0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think we're all a little confused by that.

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.280
<v Speaker 2>The administration was confused by that when they said that, well,

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:45.960
<v Speaker 2>we deported this guy whoops by mistake, and they.

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:50.480
<v Speaker 1>They showed a photoshop picture of his fingers.

0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:52.879
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, the supposed he had tattoos that tied him

0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to a gang. You know. Trump looked at it and said, no, no,

0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.400
<v Speaker 2>that's not that's not doctored. And it's like, uh, yes

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.280
<v Speaker 2>it is, but all right, So yeah, they were confused,

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:04.640
<v Speaker 2>and they removed him without due process.

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I wanted to ask you about due process, but

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.640
<v Speaker 1>first before I do, and jump ahead, what is going

0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 1>on with this man?

0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, he's finally back in the United States, there are

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>now he's now facing charges that appear to have been

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:24.320
<v Speaker 2>uncovered relatively recently. I read that a prosecutor has resigned

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 2>in the Justice Department as a result of the actions

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.200
<v Speaker 2>that have been taken against this now defendant.

0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Mister Garcia, is this a face saving measure in your review?

0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about the strength of the case, but

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 2>it does seem a little suspicious that these charges are

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.119
<v Speaker 2>now brought and they use that as the basis to

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 2>get him, you know, from that hell hole in l Salvador,

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.120
<v Speaker 2>back to you know, the United States, when they could

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 2>quite simply have told, you know, President Mukeley, you know,

0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 2>give us this guy. And if the American government had

0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 2>said that, he would have shown up in in the

0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 2>United States. So we'll see, I mean, we'll see what

0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.560
<v Speaker 2>this how these charges go, and we'll have an ability

0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 2>to judge whether or not this was a pretext or

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:11.679
<v Speaker 2>whether there is a real basis to conclude that he

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 2>violated the law in the ways in which the government

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.040
<v Speaker 2>has delineated in an indictment.

0:24:16.680 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 1>Why is due process so important?

0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Due process is one of the foundational parts of our society.

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 2>Government power can only be used against individuals in prescribed ways.

0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Due process means that you have the ability to challenge

0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a governmental action that's directed at you, whether it's an

0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:39.639
<v Speaker 2>attempt to take property from you, to imprison you. The

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:41.919
<v Speaker 2>government has to be put to its proof before it

0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:44.760
<v Speaker 2>can actually act. And what we've seen with so many

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:48.680
<v Speaker 2>of these deportations is that people have simply been snatched

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.720
<v Speaker 2>off the street, put on airplanes and then move to

0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 2>El Salvador, South Sudan, Libya, you know, without any ability

0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.080
<v Speaker 2>for these people to say, well, wait a minute, what

0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.880
<v Speaker 2>why am I being taken away? Proved to me, what's

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:07.360
<v Speaker 2>the basis for the legitimate basis for this action? And

0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 2>people need to understand governments make mistakes, you know. I

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 2>think about that, that that game makeup artist, that guy.

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's best I can tell. He's taken because

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 2>of tattoos that he had on his hands that apparently

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 2>were misinterpreted. I don't know where this poor man is

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.879
<v Speaker 2>at this point, and I know got to El Salvador.

0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what has happened, you know, to him,

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:35.159
<v Speaker 2>there's really no basis for his deportation, is best I

0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 2>can tell. And yet because he didn't have due process.

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:40.679
<v Speaker 2>He didn't have the ability to challenge that which the

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>government wanted to do to him. He was simply picked up,

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.520
<v Speaker 2>put on a plane and then taken down to you know,

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 2>that that place in El Salvador.

0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:52.639
<v Speaker 1>And then I think about how sort of capricious it

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 1>is when someone is is basically let go like that

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.439
<v Speaker 1>way in Missouri, when there was that community outcry, or

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:06.840
<v Speaker 1>the four year old girl who needed life saving medical care.

0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 1>But how many people are out there like them, who

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:17.040
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily have a community or a citizenry rising up

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:18.200
<v Speaker 1>and defending them.

0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, that's both the concern I have. How

0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:24.359
<v Speaker 2>many other people are like that? And that's also the

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 2>thing gives me some degree of optimism and shows the

0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:31.200
<v Speaker 2>power of the American people. When that community in Missouri said, no,

0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 2>you're not taking her. What happened? Lo and behold she reappears.

0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.520
<v Speaker 2>When the media does the great job that they did

0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:42.200
<v Speaker 2>to publicize the case of that four year old, that

0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:44.520
<v Speaker 2>poor four year old girl, cute as a button, cute

0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 2>as a button, what happens, Well, suddenly, okay, she can

0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:51.520
<v Speaker 2>stay here, you know, for medical treatment that basically keeps

0:26:51.600 --> 0:26:55.159
<v Speaker 2>her alive. The power of the media, the power of

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 2>the American people cannot be underestimated, and you can't overestimate

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the power of government when those two forces are in opposition.

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:07.119
<v Speaker 2>And that's why it's incumbent upon the American people to

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.040
<v Speaker 2>be conversant with what's going on, to be active, to

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>be engaged, and be committed to defending our values. And

0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 2>the media can't be cowed. The media can't be coued,

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:22.280
<v Speaker 2>is it then? To some degree? I think so, you know,

0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:25.600
<v Speaker 2>there's a desire, it's a human thing to look at

0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:31.199
<v Speaker 2>situations and to try to look at both sides, normalize things,

0:27:32.320 --> 0:27:36.119
<v Speaker 2>be fair, be fair, and sometimes you've got to, you know,

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:38.240
<v Speaker 2>call them as they are. I mean, if I'm sitting

0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:41.199
<v Speaker 2>here with you, I'm a Democrat, you're a Republican, and

0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 2>we're in the middle of a hurricane, and I'm a

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Democrat and I says, look, you know, it's raining outside,

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.159
<v Speaker 2>and you the Republicans say, no, it's sunny outside, but

0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>there's a hurricane going on. The reporters there has got

0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:53.679
<v Speaker 2>to say. Can't simply say, well, the Republican said that

0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 2>there was no rain, the Democrats said that there was rain.

0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:01.000
<v Speaker 2>End of analysis. No, you got to say the Republican

0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:05.360
<v Speaker 2>was unbelievably wrong because in fact, there was a hurricane

0:28:05.400 --> 0:28:07.359
<v Speaker 2>out there, and I think that probably makes someone in

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the media a little uncomfortable.

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think when you try to search for the truth,

0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:15.399
<v Speaker 1>and I can talk about this, you know better than me,

0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:21.560
<v Speaker 1>very personally, that you're often accused of being biased. And

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:25.560
<v Speaker 1>if you actually just want to present facts and you

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:29.439
<v Speaker 1>are searching for truth, that is not being biased. I

0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 1>have so many people saying to me, Eric, what happened

0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:34.600
<v Speaker 1>to you? And I said, nothing happened to me. Maybe

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:36.640
<v Speaker 1>it's what has happened to our country.

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's the deal. You've got to be prepared

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 2>to deal with those charges of bias if what you

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 2>are carefully reporting is truth in the same way that

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I was talking about before. You know, those congressmen, you've

0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:54.120
<v Speaker 2>got to be acting a way that's consistent with your oath,

0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 2>even if that means you're going to be charged with

0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 2>being disloyal. Time are you going to be I'm married,

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna be called a rhino or whatever.

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Your musk is going to support your opposition. Although that's

0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of a mess too now right.

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, in universities have got to be prepared, you know,

0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:15.360
<v Speaker 2>to take on forces that are doing things inconsistent with

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:17.760
<v Speaker 2>the way in which universities are supposed to conduct themselves.

0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>And it may cost your money, you know. Okay, you

0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 2>got to be prepared for that. You know, opposition, effective

0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 2>opposition does not come without a price. The reporting of

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:34.640
<v Speaker 2>truth frequently does not come without a price. We've seen

0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:39.520
<v Speaker 2>this throughout our history, where you know, brave news gatherers

0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>have lost their lives reporting the truth, and we dishonor them.

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 2>People in the media dishonor them if we are not willing.

0:29:48.840 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Members of the media are not willing to report truthfully now,

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 2>and we've got to be supportive. We the American people,

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 2>have to be supportive of people in the media. We

0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:02.360
<v Speaker 2>have the guts to do exactly that focus on truth.

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Getting back to Los Angeles, I wanted to ask you

0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:09.200
<v Speaker 1>about this Posse Commatatis Act. You know, I feel like

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:11.240
<v Speaker 1>I've gotten a law degree in the last few days.

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Eric.

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 1>It's an eighteen seventy eight law that generally bars the

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:19.080
<v Speaker 1>US military from engaging in civilian law enforcement, and a

0:30:19.120 --> 0:30:23.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of people are saying, hey, Donald Trump, you cannot

0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>deploy the National Guard or Marines to do the job

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 1>of law enforcement. This is not right. So does this

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:33.640
<v Speaker 1>law or this act not have any teeth.

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, that's why they're trying to characterize it as

0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 2>the use of the military for national security purposes. I mean,

0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:43.959
<v Speaker 2>the understand that Passecommatadis makes is a big problem if

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:45.320
<v Speaker 2>they are to be if the military is to be

0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:48.520
<v Speaker 2>engaged in domestic law enforcements. So they're trying to characterize

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it as anything but that, and so they have to

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:55.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, say negative things about the protesters, that they

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 2>are not only protesting inappropriately, but they're also a threat

0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to national security, and in that way they think they

0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:03.520
<v Speaker 2>can justify the use of the military.

0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Are they also claiming that of the undocumented people who

0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 1>they're apprehending, that they're a threat to national security?

0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's that's certainly the claim, and that's

0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>why they try to make use of the military there

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:18.800
<v Speaker 2>to the extent that they possibly can.

0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:22.320
<v Speaker 1>How did you like the fact that these protesters are

0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 1>being called insurrectionists, a word that was never used on

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:27.200
<v Speaker 1>January sixth.

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, you know it. There's a whole bunch of

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 2>stuff here that's a little hypocritical. You know, you call

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>these folks, insurrectionists, these protesters, and they're doing that which

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the vast, vast majority. Now they're exceptions, but the vast

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.800
<v Speaker 2>majority are simply doing that which is guaranteed by our

0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 2>First Amendment. The people who stormed our capital on January

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 2>the sixth were worthy of pardons. And when I hear

0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:52.760
<v Speaker 2>people in this administration talk about how they want to

0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>protect the police, I think, well, wait a minute, what

0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:58.840
<v Speaker 2>were you all doing when you pardoned all those people

0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:01.920
<v Speaker 2>who beat the hell out of cops on the capital

0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:05.200
<v Speaker 2>steps and in the Capitol on January the sixth, What

0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:06.840
<v Speaker 2>we try to do with the blue theya, what we're

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to do with regard to police officers? When you

0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>decided that those true insurrectionists were deserving of pardons.

0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:18.320
<v Speaker 1>So is he using that terminology to set himself up

0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:20.959
<v Speaker 1>to use the Insurrection Act? And can you explain what

0:32:21.000 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>that means?

0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a concern that I have that the possibility

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 2>exists that that which we've seen now is really just

0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:33.600
<v Speaker 2>a prelude, a foundation for the imposition of the Insurrection Act,

0:32:33.640 --> 0:32:37.600
<v Speaker 2>which gives a president really broad ranging powers to do

0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:42.680
<v Speaker 2>a whole range of things, but to declare an insurrection

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 2>means you've got to meet a number of their number

0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:48.640
<v Speaker 2>of requirements. I don't think those are met. I suspect

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>they probably will not be met.

0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Will he use it anyway?

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what worries me, you know. I mean, if

0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 2>you'd ask me that question even six seven months ago,

0:32:57.560 --> 0:32:58.840
<v Speaker 2>I would have said, you know, Katie, you're being a

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:02.160
<v Speaker 2>little alarmist here, hyperbolic. And now I can't dismiss that.

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I really can't. David from wrote a piece

0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:07.800
<v Speaker 2>in The Atlantic, I think last week or so where

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>he talked about the possibility that the Insurrection Act might

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:16.120
<v Speaker 2>be used to somehow tinker with the twenty twenty six midterms.

0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:17.920
<v Speaker 2>And again, that's the kind of thing that I would

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 2>have read five six months ago and thought, you know,

0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>that's just nuts. And now I think we have to

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:26.800
<v Speaker 2>be prepared. I still don't think it happens, you know,

0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that twenty twenty six elections will go on

0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:30.720
<v Speaker 2>and they'll be fine. But I think we have to

0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>at least be prepared for the possibility, the possibility that

0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:38.760
<v Speaker 2>some attempt might be made to fool around with elections

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 2>in certain parts of the country. And the fact that

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I even say that as a former Attorney general that

0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:47.719
<v Speaker 2>we have to be prepared for. That possibility is something

0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 2>that's extremely alarming.

0:33:57.720 --> 0:33:59.760
<v Speaker 1>If you want to get smarter every morning with a

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.040
<v Speaker 1>break down of the news and fascinating takes on health

0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:06.520
<v Speaker 1>and wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:18.839
<v Speaker 1>Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 1>talked earlier about the Justice Department being gutted, and I'm

0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 1>wondering who is there or who will protect the rights

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of these protesters to exercise their First Amendment rights, the

0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.399
<v Speaker 1>right to assemble, the right to free speech. If this

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:42.520
<v Speaker 1>civil Rights division of the Justice Department has been you know,

0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>dismantled essentially, who will stand up for these people?

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Well, I mean I think there are a couple

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 2>of sources. You've certainly got state attorneys general and state

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.279
<v Speaker 2>lawyers who can protect the rights of these folks. And

0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:57.839
<v Speaker 2>then there's the private bar, which is why you know,

0:34:57.880 --> 0:35:01.560
<v Speaker 2>when law firms cut these deals with the administration, that's

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.640
<v Speaker 2>why that was so troubling. It sends a chill out

0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 2>among other law firms who might decide to be the

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.960
<v Speaker 2>lawyers for these protesters, and now they know, well, if

0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 2>we get crosswise with this administration, maybe we will be

0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 2>the subject of an executive order, and so that is

0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:20.720
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons why you go after the law firms,

0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:24.239
<v Speaker 2>because you reduce the possibility that your opponents will have

0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:27.799
<v Speaker 2>adequate legal representation. So, yeah, the Justice Department is not

0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.200
<v Speaker 2>going to help an awful lot, but there are still

0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:33.759
<v Speaker 2>lots of lawyers in different places, both in government and

0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:37.880
<v Speaker 2>on the private side, that you can come to their assistance.

0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Having said that, is the legal system been effectively weakened

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 1>or diminished as a result of Donald Trump's actions?

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:49.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, I would say it's been diminished or weakened

0:35:49.920 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 2>in certain ways. I worry about what's happened to big

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 2>law firms and their reactions to some of these executive orders,

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.759
<v Speaker 2>and I think there's been some weakness shown there. I

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:06.319
<v Speaker 2>think the courts have generally been done extremely well. You know,

0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:09.719
<v Speaker 2>he has lost the overwhelming number of cases that have

0:36:09.800 --> 0:36:13.120
<v Speaker 2>been brought before federal judges, So I think the system

0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:15.640
<v Speaker 2>is held there. My concern there is that that's we're

0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:18.879
<v Speaker 2>at the district court level, courts have held I think

0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:21.240
<v Speaker 2>at the Court of appeals level, the courts will hold

0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:23.760
<v Speaker 2>questions what ultimately is going to happen at the United

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:28.080
<v Speaker 2>States Supreme Court, and there I get a little concerned

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 2>about with their view of their expansive view of executive power.

0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And you know that you look at that immunity decision

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 2>from you know, from the last term. Will that view

0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:42.960
<v Speaker 2>of executive power allow the Trump administration to do the

0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:46.319
<v Speaker 2>kinds of things that they are trying to do? Will

0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court give them, you know, the authority to

0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:53.480
<v Speaker 2>do things that I think they are clearly inconsistent with

0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:56.800
<v Speaker 2>our traditions, our norms, and and our laws.

0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Do you think the Supreme Court, I mean, have you

0:36:59.840 --> 0:37:04.560
<v Speaker 1>got in any kind of encouragement by some of their decisions,

0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:09.799
<v Speaker 1>by some of the justices seeming to not walk lockstep

0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:10.600
<v Speaker 1>with the president?

0:37:10.920 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, I think I don't want to paint with

0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.840
<v Speaker 2>too broad a brush. I mean, I think I'm concerned

0:37:15.880 --> 0:37:18.439
<v Speaker 2>about and you know, see what the Supreme Court does.

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 2>But I think that there is certainly a basis for

0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:24.239
<v Speaker 2>hope that the Supreme Court will act in the way

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.520
<v Speaker 2>that Court appeals judges are acting, the way district court

0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 2>judges have been acting. But it's not the sure thing

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:34.960
<v Speaker 2>that I think, you know, it ought to be that

0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:41.600
<v Speaker 2>immunity decision can't be undervalued, you know, to make up

0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:45.279
<v Speaker 2>out whole cloth the notion that an American president is

0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 2>above the law, is above the law, you know, can

0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 2>violate the law, can direct you know, people in his

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.960
<v Speaker 2>administration to do certain things without any kind of criminal liability.

0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's where that come from. I mean, where's that.

0:37:57.760 --> 0:38:02.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, they talk about originalism, tech stualism. Where's that

0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:03.719
<v Speaker 2>in any of the texts? You know?

0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:08.080
<v Speaker 1>And then the question is what will keep the administration

0:38:08.400 --> 0:38:12.520
<v Speaker 1>from ignoring any decisions made by the courts. You know,

0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 1>I was disturbed to see that part of this budget

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:23.600
<v Speaker 1>bill there was a provision that would prevent judges from

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:31.600
<v Speaker 1>issuing contemptive court orders, forcing people to basically obey their

0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:35.840
<v Speaker 1>decisions in essence, right, And that is in the small

0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 1>print of this budget bill. That is adding to this

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:44.319
<v Speaker 1>whole notion of immunity in a significant way, is it not.

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's why this well go. I think, well,

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.360
<v Speaker 2>the big beautiful bill has got to be examined page

0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 2>by page. You know. I have problems with, you know,

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:57.960
<v Speaker 2>the continuation of the tax cuts, which were I think unnecessary,

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:00.560
<v Speaker 2>but you also have to look at those those kinds

0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:03.800
<v Speaker 2>of provisions though they're just kind of tucked away there.

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.319
<v Speaker 2>They recognize the power that the courts have and the

0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:10.319
<v Speaker 2>power the district court judges have, and they're trying to

0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:15.280
<v Speaker 2>decrease that power. They're trying to systematically eliminate all those areas,

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 2>all those places where they might run into opposition. And

0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:22.160
<v Speaker 2>that's the thing that worries me. What's the endgame here?

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, if you take lawyers out of the mix,

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:26.680
<v Speaker 2>if you take the media out of the mix, if

0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you take universities out of the mix, if you take

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:30.360
<v Speaker 2>power away from.

0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Judges, there's no guardrails.

0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>This is all to what end at the end of

0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:36.280
<v Speaker 2>the day. What is it that you are you're trying

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to do?

0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:39.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's uh, well, you tell me what do you

0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:40.440
<v Speaker 1>think they're trying to do?

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, I worry are they trying to find ways

0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:50.440
<v Speaker 2>in which they perpetuate themselves in power in ways that

0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:54.960
<v Speaker 2>are inconsistent with our constitution? Are they trying to make

0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:59.359
<v Speaker 2>sure that, you know, elections can be conducted in such

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 2>a way that they can guarantee result regardless of what

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.640
<v Speaker 2>the American people, you know, want to do. One of

0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:08.799
<v Speaker 2>the things I've been fighting is this whole question of

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:13.759
<v Speaker 2>racial and partisan jerrymandering. Do they want to somehow, you know,

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:18.400
<v Speaker 2>use jerry mandering knowing that they've flattened the opposition, and

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 2>then gerrymander things in such a way so that they

0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:26.719
<v Speaker 2>can guarantee Republican domination of our state legislature's Republican domination

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:30.720
<v Speaker 2>of the United States House of Representatives because they're no checks.

0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:32.959
<v Speaker 2>So that's at least one of the ways in which,

0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:35.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, I get concerned about what it is they

0:40:35.400 --> 0:40:35.719
<v Speaker 2>might do.

0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Tell us more about the work you're doing to address

0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 1>your concerns.

0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, as Barack and I President Obama and

0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:46.279
<v Speaker 2>I were leaving office, we tried to yeah, he's my

0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 2>good by, my good buddy bo. As we were leaving office,

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:52.319
<v Speaker 2>we try to figure out what is we want to

0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:55.120
<v Speaker 2>do in our post government lives. What is the thing

0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:58.800
<v Speaker 2>that we thought was most pose some of the greatest

0:40:58.840 --> 0:41:02.200
<v Speaker 2>problems that we had to confront, And we pointed to

0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the issue of jerrymandering, and so we formed up with

0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:09.560
<v Speaker 2>the National Democratic Redistricting Committee that really looks at the

0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:12.560
<v Speaker 2>way in which the lines are drawn for state legislative

0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 2>seats as well as the United States House of Representatives.

0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:17.000
<v Speaker 2>And said, you know what, here's the deal. Let's just

0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:20.280
<v Speaker 2>make that process fair. Let's do away with jury mandering,

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.160
<v Speaker 2>which guarantees that Republicans are going to win in certain districts,

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Democrats are going to win in certain districts. Let's just

0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:29.760
<v Speaker 2>make it fair so that politicians are not picking their voters,

0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:33.520
<v Speaker 2>voters are choosing who their representatives ought to be. And

0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:36.800
<v Speaker 2>so we've had a fair, a pretty good amount of success.

0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, how do you stop jerrymandering.

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:41.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a number of things. You bring lawsuits where

0:41:41.200 --> 0:41:44.520
<v Speaker 2>you find jerry manders. You put in place these independent

0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:48.799
<v Speaker 2>commissions to draw the lines instead of interested politicians, and

0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:54.640
<v Speaker 2>then you also support candidates who will stand for affair process.

0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:56.560
<v Speaker 2>And I mean to give you a sense kat of

0:41:56.600 --> 0:41:58.560
<v Speaker 2>how bad it was. You look at the election right

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 2>after the the jerry manders will put in place in

0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:06.400
<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven and twenty twelve congressional elections. Democrats got one

0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:09.120
<v Speaker 2>point four million more votes for the United States House

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:12.160
<v Speaker 2>of Representatives in twenty twelve and ended up with a

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:15.239
<v Speaker 2>thirty three seat deficit. And it's all a function of

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the way in which the jerry manders were put in place.

0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.960
<v Speaker 2>When we started out Democrats to have a fifty to

0:42:22.000 --> 0:42:25.280
<v Speaker 2>fifty US House of Representatives had to overperform by eight percent.

0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Now we wiped that out, and we had the most

0:42:27.880 --> 0:42:32.520
<v Speaker 2>fair elections in terms of jurymandering, the lack of jury mandering,

0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:35.719
<v Speaker 2>I guess in twenty twenty two. But there's still, you know,

0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:38.399
<v Speaker 2>a lot of work that needs to be done. Twenty

0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:41.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty two, twenty twenty four. You know, we saw things

0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:44.839
<v Speaker 2>much better than they were in twenty twelve, but there

0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>are still a lot of places Texas, Georgia, Wisconsin, Florida,

0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:52.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, Louisiana still places where his work to be done.

0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:57.800
<v Speaker 1>There's also a Supreme Court case, Louisiana versus Calais, which

0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:01.560
<v Speaker 1>asks whether creating a second majority black districts, something ordered

0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:05.480
<v Speaker 1>under the Voting Rights Act, violates the Equal Protection Clause.

0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Critics say this case could gut what's left of Section two. Okay,

0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I just said that, I have no idea what that means.

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Do you explain?

0:43:14.800 --> 0:43:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you know, Section two of the Voting

0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:21.760
<v Speaker 2>Rights Act allows private parties as well as Justice Department

0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:26.080
<v Speaker 2>to challenge unfair voting practices, you know, on the basis

0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:29.359
<v Speaker 2>of race. If you look at the way in which

0:43:29.719 --> 0:43:33.160
<v Speaker 2>the lines have been drawn in southern states where there's

0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:36.359
<v Speaker 2>a history of racially polarized voting, that's a critical thing.

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:40.080
<v Speaker 2>There's a history of racially polarized voting. Those parties that

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:44.239
<v Speaker 2>have substantial African American support have been discriminated against. That's

0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:47.279
<v Speaker 2>the Democratic Party, say in Alabama. And so we brought

0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 2>a lawsuit there. This very conservative Supreme Court said, you

0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:53.839
<v Speaker 2>know what they make up. Black folks make up about

0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:56.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven percent of the population. Based on a number

0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of congressmanment you have, there should be two Black opportunities districts.

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:03.720
<v Speaker 2>There was only one. We won the case.

0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 1>A Black opportunity district.

0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a district that is created so that the African

0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 2>American population in a particular area has the ability to

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>express its political will, so that there's if you want

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:18.840
<v Speaker 2>to elect a black person as a congressman, as a congresswoman,

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>you have that ability. The lines are not drawn in

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:25.840
<v Speaker 2>such a way that precludes that possibility and undermines the

0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.040
<v Speaker 2>ability of that twenty seven percent of the population to

0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:34.160
<v Speaker 2>fully express their political desires. And so after our successful suit,

0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 2>that's a Supreme court upheld surprising to me, but got

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:40.960
<v Speaker 2>to give them credit they help we were. We have

0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:45.160
<v Speaker 2>now for the first time, two black congressmen from Alabama,

0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:49.320
<v Speaker 2>consistent again with the population demographics of the city of

0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the state and also taking into consideration something people have

0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to keep in mind that history of racially polarized voting

0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:59.360
<v Speaker 2>without that Section two is not necessarily a tool that

0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:01.319
<v Speaker 2>we can use. And so we've used that now in

0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Louisiana as well. And now the Louisiana folks who didn't

0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:09.759
<v Speaker 2>like the result are claiming that white people are being

0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:14.600
<v Speaker 2>discriminated against by the Voting Rights Act of nineteen sixty five,

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:18.240
<v Speaker 2>and they wanted to have that declared unconstitutional, rip away

0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:22.319
<v Speaker 2>from the Voting Rights Act, the constitutionality of section two,

0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:24.640
<v Speaker 2>using some of the same arguments that we use when

0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:27.919
<v Speaker 2>the Act was put in place back in nineteen sixty five.

0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 1>You warned that what we're seeing in the US today

0:45:31.600 --> 0:45:34.719
<v Speaker 1>is quote remarkably similar to what happened in Europe in

0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:39.320
<v Speaker 1>the thirties, and you've drawn comparisons to places like Hungary

0:45:39.320 --> 0:45:44.440
<v Speaker 1>and Turkey. Do you think Americans grasp what serious trouble

0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:51.120
<v Speaker 1>we are in and how the future may in fact look.

0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:53.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I worry about that all the time. Too.

0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, people don't get it to the degree that they

0:45:57.239 --> 0:46:00.719
<v Speaker 2>should now, and that concerns me a great deal. But

0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:03.560
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a growing awareness among people. As you

0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:06.960
<v Speaker 2>see these demonstrations breaking out not only in Los Angeles

0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:08.560
<v Speaker 2>but in other parts of the country, and you see

0:46:08.600 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>the size of them growing. I think there's a growing

0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:15.400
<v Speaker 2>awareness of that. The American people are generally slow to rouse,

0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:19.120
<v Speaker 2>but once aroused, they are a mighty force, and that's

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.120
<v Speaker 2>something that we can never forget. All the great movements

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.680
<v Speaker 2>in this nation came about not because politicians decided it

0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:28.000
<v Speaker 2>was time for women to get the right to vote,

0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:31.200
<v Speaker 2>it was time for a system of American apartheid to

0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 2>be taken down. It was because the American people said,

0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you know what, it's not fair women can't vote. This

0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:41.479
<v Speaker 2>system of segregation. That's just not fair, and that needs

0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:45.160
<v Speaker 2>to be torn down. That's the power of the American people,

0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and I think there is a growing awareness that fundamental liberties,

0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:54.840
<v Speaker 2>fundamental rights, fundamental notions of who we are as a

0:46:54.880 --> 0:46:58.080
<v Speaker 2>people and how we should be governed are being trampled.

0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:01.719
<v Speaker 2>And so I am optimistic that at the end of

0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:03.319
<v Speaker 2>the day of the American people will get to the

0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:07.640
<v Speaker 2>right place, and I think do so, you know, in time,

0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:09.719
<v Speaker 2>that's that's the thing that gives me optimism.

0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:13.640
<v Speaker 1>There's no guarantee that democracies last, is there no? No.

0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Democracy is an extremely fragile thing. You know, if you

0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:21.120
<v Speaker 2>look at Europe in the UH in the twenties and

0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:26.080
<v Speaker 2>the thirties, fascism communism didn't arise because they were strong.

0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:30.520
<v Speaker 2>They rose because democracy was weak. You know, the Weimar

0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Republic week, Kerensky, you know, in Russia week, so Lenin

0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:39.919
<v Speaker 2>takes over, Hitler takes over. And I think unless we

0:47:39.960 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 2>make sure that our democracy is strong, the possibility, the

0:47:44.360 --> 0:47:48.880
<v Speaker 2>possibility that something similar to what has happened in Europe

0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:51.560
<v Speaker 2>in the thirties, well more recently in Hungary and in Turkey,

0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:53.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, could happen here in the United States as well.

0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you think your good friend Barack is speaking out

0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:01.960
<v Speaker 1>enough and warning enough people? And what about former presidents

0:48:02.080 --> 0:48:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like George W. Bush? He cannot be happy with what

0:48:07.040 --> 0:48:11.920
<v Speaker 1>is going on, and yet he's been pretty much silent.

0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.839
<v Speaker 1>And I know there's a great tradition of former presidents

0:48:15.960 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 1>not criticizing or opining on current presidents. But have you

0:48:21.280 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 1>been disappointed that Barack Obama isn't saying and doing more,

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 1>and that George W. Bush isn't saying much either. I'm

0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.760
<v Speaker 1>not mentioning Bill Clinton because I think he's been speaking

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 1>out a little bit more, but I'm not sure. But

0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:42.839
<v Speaker 1>could they get together and in a bipartisan way talk

0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:44.640
<v Speaker 1>about the dangers we're facing here?

0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, in some ways that would be an

0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:50.000
<v Speaker 2>ideal situation. But I do think that the criticism of

0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:53.759
<v Speaker 2>President Obama is not necessarily well founded. I mean, he

0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:57.000
<v Speaker 2>gave a great speech at Hamilton College. He's worked with

0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:00.120
<v Speaker 2>us at the NDRC. I've gotten him to endure or

0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:03.719
<v Speaker 2>candidates at the state and local level to try to

0:49:03.719 --> 0:49:06.520
<v Speaker 2>make sure that the underpinnings of our democracy get the

0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:10.279
<v Speaker 2>appropriate amount of attention. He has used the power that

0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:13.480
<v Speaker 2>he still has, I think in a judicious way. You

0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:15.839
<v Speaker 2>speak out too much and then you just become part

0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>of the noise, and so I think he's got to

0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:20.239
<v Speaker 2>pick his spots, and I think he has done so

0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:22.640
<v Speaker 2>quite well. The thing that gets me, though, is that

0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:24.840
<v Speaker 2>people always saying, well, why are the Democrats not doing this?

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Why is Obama not doing this?

0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:27.200
<v Speaker 1>People?

0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:30.319
<v Speaker 2>He dascy, where the hell are the damn Republicans? You know,

0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:33.919
<v Speaker 2>they're the ones with the power. It's their president. They

0:49:33.960 --> 0:49:37.239
<v Speaker 2>control the Senate, they control the House. They've got you know,

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:41.120
<v Speaker 2>you might argue control of the judiciary. Where are the

0:49:41.160 --> 0:49:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Republicans here? Where's the opposition from the Republicans that I mean?

0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:49.200
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know these folks don't think that the

0:49:49.200 --> 0:49:52.160
<v Speaker 2>things that the Trump administration is doing, the things that

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:58.920
<v Speaker 2>they're doing are appropriate, constitutional, consistent with our values. And

0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:02.920
<v Speaker 2>it's crickets from them. You know, they're afraid, politically afraid,

0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:04.640
<v Speaker 2>some say physically afraid.

0:50:04.960 --> 0:50:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Is it really that much fun to be a member

0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:11.160
<v Speaker 1>of Congress that they just can't part with their jobs

0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:12.640
<v Speaker 1>to actually do the right thing?

0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:15.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, it seems to me that you got to

0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:19.160
<v Speaker 2>be take these jobs and be prepared to separate yourself

0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:21.640
<v Speaker 2>from the job if it means that you're asked to

0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:26.239
<v Speaker 2>do something inconsistent with your oath. When you're Attorney General,

0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:28.759
<v Speaker 2>you get to put up the portraits of four of

0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:31.960
<v Speaker 2>your predecessors in the big conference room, and one of

0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:34.279
<v Speaker 2>the people I put up was Elliott Richardson. Had him

0:50:34.280 --> 0:50:36.359
<v Speaker 2>off to the left so i'd always see him, and

0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:39.600
<v Speaker 2>he was there to remind me that, you know, you

0:50:39.640 --> 0:50:42.640
<v Speaker 2>may have to do something that goes contrary to it

0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:44.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't have I didn't expect this to happen, but contrary

0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:47.359
<v Speaker 2>to what somebody in the White House wants you to do,

0:50:47.719 --> 0:50:50.239
<v Speaker 2>and it may cost you your job. But that's why

0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:52.919
<v Speaker 2>Elliott Richardson was a hero to me, because when Richard

0:50:53.000 --> 0:50:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Nixon told him, you know, to fire the Watergate special prosecutor,

0:50:57.160 --> 0:50:59.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm not doing that, and as a result, you know,

0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:02.160
<v Speaker 2>he lost his job. That's the kind of attitude that

0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:05.399
<v Speaker 2>people in Congress need to have. Take actions that may, yeah,

0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 2>may cost you your seat, but maybe it won't cost

0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:10.600
<v Speaker 2>you your seat if enough of you come together and say,

0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:14.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, we stand for principle over party, We stand

0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:19.160
<v Speaker 2>for patriotism over the concerns of the Republican Party.

0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:25.040
<v Speaker 1>And maybe the American people appreciate and respect elected leaders

0:51:25.080 --> 0:51:28.680
<v Speaker 1>who feel that they're doing the right thing. Maybe they'll actually,

0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:32.000
<v Speaker 1>to your point, be rewarded for that, not penalized.

0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:36.200
<v Speaker 2>See. I think that's right. I think people underestimate the

0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.120
<v Speaker 2>sagacity of the American people.

0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 1>You know, I like that word sagacity.

0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:42.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope I use it right.

0:51:42.600 --> 0:51:44.800
<v Speaker 1>I think you did. They are wisdom.

0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there we go, there we go. And if it wasn't,

0:51:47.160 --> 0:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>we'll just do this part over. But no, I mean,

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:55.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, the American people I think respect authenticity, they

0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:59.920
<v Speaker 2>respect strength, they respect people who are willing to take chances.

0:52:00.440 --> 0:52:03.120
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, that's what maybe Republicans would have to do.

0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.200
<v Speaker 2>But the chances they have to take our political ones.

0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:07.759
<v Speaker 2>And that's not too much to ask. You know, you

0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:10.759
<v Speaker 2>swore an oath to the Constitution, not to a man.

0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Eric Colter, I am so appreciative of your time. Thank you.

0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:18.120
<v Speaker 1>This interview was a long time coming. We had a

0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:19.320
<v Speaker 1>difficult time scheduling.

0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, your schedule was such, you know you you're a

0:52:21.200 --> 0:52:24.239
<v Speaker 2>busy woman. Oh I'm like semi retired. I could have

0:52:24.280 --> 0:52:25.120
<v Speaker 2>been here almost anything.

0:52:25.200 --> 0:52:28.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, our schedules just weren't aligning. But I'm really

0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:30.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm so grateful that they finally have. Thank you so

0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:31.319
<v Speaker 1>so much.

0:52:31.360 --> 0:52:32.479
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me. This was fun.

0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:44.480
<v Speaker 1>a subject you want us to cover, or you want

0:52:44.480 --> 0:52:47.840
<v Speaker 1>to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:51.480
<v Speaker 1>reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:54.560
<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:59.160
<v Speaker 1>of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

0:52:59.440 --> 0:53:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Katie Kirk, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and our producers are Adriana Fazio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Weller composed art theme music. For more information about today's episode,

0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:17.200
<v Speaker 1>or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

0:53:17.680 --> 0:53:20.560
<v Speaker 1>go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:23.840
<v Speaker 1>us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

0:53:23.920 --> 0:53:27.640
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:33.040
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:53:33.040 --> 0:53:38.160
<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's

0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between

0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:45.240
<v Speaker 1>running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of course

0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:48.200
<v Speaker 1>covering the news. And I know that to keep doing

0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:50.719
<v Speaker 1>what I love, I need to start caring for what

0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:54.799
<v Speaker 1>gets me there, my feet. That's why I decided to

0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:59.080
<v Speaker 1>try the Good feed Stores personalized art support system. I

0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:02.320
<v Speaker 1>met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and after

0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:05.399
<v Speaker 1>a personalized fitting, I left the store with my three

0:54:05.480 --> 0:54:10.480
<v Speaker 1>step system designed to improve comfort, balance and support. My feet,

0:54:10.600 --> 0:54:14.719
<v Speaker 1>knees and back are thanking me already. Visit goodfeat dot

0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:18.160
<v Speaker 1>com to learn more, find the nearest store, or book

0:54:18.200 --> 0:54:20.440
<v Speaker 1>your own free, personalized fitting.