1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Papa's Perspective. I'm Bob Poppa, 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: and Papa's Perspective is brought to you by Bob's Discount Furniture, 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: the official furniture store and mattress partner of the New 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: York Giants. And you know, as the Giants celebrate one 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: hundred years, the list of the top one hundred has 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: been released, and I thought it'd be a great idea 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: to have one of the voters as our blue ribbon panel. 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: Peter King takes a couple of minutes to join us. Peter, 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time, and more importantly, 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: thank you for partaking in this unique exercising trying to 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: identify the top one hundred players of over the five 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: thousand men that have worn a Giant's uniform for this 13 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: year's one hundred season celebration. 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: You know, Bob, it was not easy, as you will know. 15 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: And I've had the privilege for really over thirty years 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: to be one of the voters the Pro Football Hall 17 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: of Fame, and this really was a totally different animal 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: than voting for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, because 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: most of the time, when you're voting for members in 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: the Pro Football Hall of Fame, except if you're voting 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: for a senior and you know, and then you have 22 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: to compare you know, Maxy Bond to Sterling Sharp to 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: you know, to the real old timers, and you have 24 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 2: to think of, well, should Clark Shaughnessy be in and 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: things like that. But most of the time, when you're 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 2: voting for the modern era candidates in the NFL, they're 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: guys who you know very well and you've seen play, 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: and you know an awful lot about them, and you 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: can judge them against their peers. What was really hard 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: about this is obviously you know that mel Heine belongs 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: on the list, but how do you compare Melhine to 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: Homer Jones? And then how do you compare Homer Jones 33 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: to a Moni tumor? And so that became a real 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: difficult challenge for me. And I have to tell you, Bob, 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: the way I voted is I probably aired on the 36 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: side of history a little bit more than I would 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 2: think most voters, and in part because I just think 38 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: I remember too, when I was a kid growing up 39 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: in northern Connecticut, my family they were huge Giants fans, 40 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, we watched the games out of Hartford every 41 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: Sunday on Channel three, the CBS affiliate there in Hartford, 42 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 2: and we wouldn't miss a game, And so I probably 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: am more fun for instance of guys like Bob Tucker 44 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: and Ron and I have great regard for Alex Webster 45 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: and you know, and I did although I didn't see 46 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: Frank Gifford play. You know, I just have high regard 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: for pro football history. So I probably aired on the 48 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: side of history a little bit more than a lot 49 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: of the people who voted. 50 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: You know, we started with a ballpark list of about 51 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifteen, and some of the voters were 52 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: encouraged in case there were some names that might have 53 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: been missed, so people were added to the ballot. I 54 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: think at the end of the day there were about 55 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five or so names to choose from. 56 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: And what we tried to do is we started the 57 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: voting process with you know, I directed the group to say, 58 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: let's work on the first twenty five. You can't do 59 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: this one hundred at the time, so let's take this 60 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: in segments. And we started with the first twenty five. 61 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: So everybody on the ballot is eligible for the first 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: twenty five and then everybody submitted their votes. I created 63 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: a point value. Whoever was put number one on someone's 64 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: ballot got twenty five points, and we worked it on 65 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: through and you know, it was interesting because now you've 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: got to do a little research on these guys. You know, 67 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: I was, I was. I was one of the people 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: that encouraged to be added to the ballot Tom Landry 69 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 1: because I started looking at Tom Landry as a player, 70 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: and I think he's still fourth on the Giants' all 71 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,119 Speaker 1: time interception list, and now he was great, like trying 72 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: to figure out how to do this, But we we 73 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: came to what was a consensus twenty five, and then 74 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: we worked backwards from twenty six to fifty. So, you know, 75 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: guys that got a lot of votes for the top 76 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: twenty five but didn't make the cut, now you're looking 77 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: at them in your next grouping. But you know, I 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: think the final list is awesome in the sense that Roosevelt, 79 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: Brown and mel Hine finished two and three, and Emlintonelle 80 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: finished sixth, who still leads the franchise in interceptions. So 81 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: I think the voters got it right by not getting 82 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: too swept up in age bias. 83 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. I was really really happy 84 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: to see that on the final list. And look, there's 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of people, you know. 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: One of the other things about a list like this, Bob, 87 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: is there's probably people look at it and say, geez, 88 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: all the immortals in Giant's history. What's Lawrence Tian's doing 89 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: on this list, and and all that, and and but 90 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: I say that this had to be a list about 91 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: great moments in Giant's history, okay. And I think one 92 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: of the things that I think is really really important, Okay, 93 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: when you talk about Giants' history is you have to 94 00:05:54,400 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: realize that there were so many huge games played the 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: New York Giants, so many big games played by the Giants, 96 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: and when you think about it, all of so many 97 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: of these big games. And I'm kind of looking back at, 98 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: you know, games that the team that I covered in 99 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 2: the eighties played, and you might say, well, geez, you know, 100 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: you probably were a little bit you know, there's probably 101 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 2: a little bit more of a nod to teams from 102 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: the eighties and obviously ninety or ninety one. But the 103 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: thing that I always say to people about looking at 104 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 2: particularly a team's history, I think you have to make 105 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: a judgment. There might be some people who will look 106 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: at this list and who will say, you know, I mean, look, 107 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: I don't mind necessarily having Gary Reasons on this but 108 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: to have Gary Reasons, you know, in the seventies, to 109 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: have him ahead of some of the all time greats 110 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: and all that, and I just think to myself and Bob, 111 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: you would know this because you know Giants' history better 112 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: than I do. But when I think of Gary Reasons, 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: I think of his role in the incredible Giants playoff 114 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: run to winning the super Bowl in nineteen ninety, when 115 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: I think a lot of us thought, well, they got 116 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: no business winning the super Bowl and going out to 117 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: San Francisco and playing maybe the best forty nine er team, 118 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: the deepest forty nin er team they ever had, and 119 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: holding the forty nine ers to thirteen points, and Gary 120 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: Reasons forcing that huge fumble laid in the game and 121 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: playing a huge game in that game. But anyway, I 122 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: just I was happy to see that there are players 123 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: on this list, and relatively high on this list, that 124 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,119 Speaker 2: I think had a collection of moments and were part 125 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: of some rock ribbed important teams. Gary Reasons a part 126 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: of two Super Bowl winning teams. So I just think 127 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: that everybody's gonna have questions about why certain people landed 128 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: high on the list. But I really think that the 129 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: moments that so many of these players had really helped 130 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: them get on this list and helped them get high 131 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: on this list. 132 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that we talked 133 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: about as a group or discussed via email was, Okay, 134 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, the Giants were fortunate enough to have a 135 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: lot of members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 136 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: So immediately, if you're in the Hall of Fame, you 137 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: better be on the top one hundred Giants list, right 138 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: If your career as a Giant qualified you to get 139 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame, then it was for guys 140 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: that had shorter tenures in that time, were they unbelievably special. 141 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: As an example, Odell Beckham Junior did things as rookie season. 142 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: His numbers. I mean, he has forty four touchdown catches 143 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: with just ten less than a Moni tumor, and he 144 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: did it in less than half the time. For his 145 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: five years as a Giant, you have to say he's 146 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: one of the greatest Giants of all time. That guy 147 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: had fans coming at me on Twitter saying, how could 148 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: you put O'Dell Beckham Junior on the list because he 149 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: was dominant as a Giant. Bran Parkington in his years 150 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: as the quarterback of the Giants did things that giant 151 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: quarterbacks haven't done since as far as Pro Bowls and 152 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: stuff like that. So I think the committee did a 153 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: really nice job of figuring out longevity Hall of Fame 154 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: guys who have set Giants records as opposed to guys 155 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: who maybe played for a shorter period of time, like 156 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: a Homer Jones who still leads the NFL in yards 157 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: per catch, invented the spike, and until Odell Buckham Junr. 158 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: Went to a Pro Bowl, the Giants didn't have a 159 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: receiver to go to a Pro Bowl since Homer Jones, 160 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: that has to factor into this. 161 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 2: I think so too. You know, there are those on 162 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 2: this list, and Bob in looking at this list now, 163 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: I'll knit pick three players on this list. Number one, 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: I'll knit pick Fran targeton being thirty three. I think 165 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: Fran Target didn't deserve to be significantly higher. I think 166 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: at a time in Giants' history where they were sort 167 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: of teetering on the brink, you know, post Ya Tittle 168 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: and all that, where they're sort of teetering on the 169 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: brink of trying to be good and yet they still 170 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: really owned Greater New York and all of New England. 171 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: I really thought he should have been a little bit higher. 172 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: And you know, the one other person on this list 173 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: that I really felt because of you know, and I'm 174 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: gonna look at history a little bit, I felt should 175 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: have been higher with Spider Lockhart. And I think we all, 176 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: you know, sort of know the name Carl Spider Lockhart 177 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: because it's probably the greatest nickname in the history of 178 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: the Giants, Spider Lockhart, and that's how he became known. 179 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: But I just think he was a really vital player 180 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: to some great defenses for a long time. So if 181 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: I have knits to pick, those would probably be the 182 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: two where i'd start. 183 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Spider Lockhart wound up coming in ninth. 184 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and and Fran was thirty third. 185 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: Right, But then you think about, you know, like the 186 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: Dick Lynches of the world who finished a little bit higher, 187 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: led the league in interceptions a couple of times. Everybody 188 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: remembers him as the lovable broadcaster. Yeah, he was an 189 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: incredible player. Jimmy Patton is a name that is not 190 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: as big, but his resume is off the charts. I 191 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: love the fact. I love the fact that the Committee 192 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,479 Speaker 1: remember John Mendenhall. 193 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that was great because obviously, you know, look, 194 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: I say this about the Hall of Fame all the time, 195 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: Like I I refer to people like Tommy Nobis. Okay, 196 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 2: Tommy Nobis played for the Atlanta Falcons, was a really 197 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: good middle linebacker. Very much. He was on Dick Budkis's level, 198 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: but everybody sort of forgot about him because the Atlanta 199 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: Falcons were a new team. They stunk where the Chicago 200 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: Bears were the monsters of the Midway. And I'm hey, look, 201 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: Dick Budkis deserves to be in the Hall of Fame 202 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 2: unanimously on the first ballot, obviously. But I think sometimes 203 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 2: if you don't play for a winning team, it ends 204 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: up really penalizing you. And I think I think the Committee, 205 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: without backpadding too much, I think the Committee did a 206 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: good job of understanding that there were a lot of 207 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: great players on a lot of bad Giants teams. 208 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jesse Armstead, although his team did get to the 209 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: Super Bowl, played on a lot of bad teams in 210 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: the nineties, right, I mean, and some of those players 211 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: from the seventies were acknowledging. You know, I'm happy that 212 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: the committee acknowledge what Brad van Pelt was as a player, Yeah, 213 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: and how good Brian Kelly was playing on horrible teams. 214 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: It's easy to go with Harry Carson. He's in the 215 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, he was the captain won a Super Bowl. 216 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: But there's that core of guys from the non winning 217 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: teams that the committee really understood. And I think that's 218 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: why we had that great cross section in kind of 219 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: doing this. When as you prepared for this and as 220 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: you work through it, what was the what was one 221 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: of the fun things that maybe you uncovered in all this. 222 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I'll tell you two things I really enjoyed 223 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: about the process. Number One, look, I'm not I'm not 224 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: ashamed to say that for an awful lot of these guys, 225 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 2: I used Pro Football Reference, I used Wikipedia for some. 226 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: You know, you've gotta we all have to acknowledge the 227 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: fact that it's going to be pretty hard for us 228 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: to have a great handle on the career of Ward Cuff. 229 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 2: You know, Tomans, Yeah, Toughy Leman's like to me, I 230 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: think one of the things you have to realize when 231 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: you when you start to look at players who obviously 232 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: are way before your time. I mean, Ward Cuff was 233 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: probably born one hundred and ten years ago. But but 234 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: you have to look at guys and you only one. 235 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 2: The one thing I've always thought that you really have 236 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: to do is you have to compare players two guys 237 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: in their own eras okay, and so that's easy to say, okay, 238 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: but you have to you have to really do that. 239 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: And so therefore, you know, Word Cuff started playing for 240 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 2: the Giants in sometime in the thirties, and so you 241 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: have to just look at his career and you have 242 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: to basically say, okay, who does he compare to? Was 243 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: he outstanding his you know, in his era? And so 244 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: that's how you have to judge players, Like, in my opinion, 245 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: you can't say, well, you know, Ward Cuff was you know, 246 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: you had a weird combo platter of being, you know, 247 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: a half back and a kicker. And because in those days, 248 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: you know, in the first twenty years of football, you 249 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: didn't have many guys on your team, and the more 250 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: you could do, the better you were. And so I 251 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: look at guys like that, and I think that when 252 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: you have to make judgments, you have to remember history. 253 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: And the one other guy that I wanted to that 254 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: I was really happy to see on the list and 255 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: I personally absolutely loved putting him on my ballot was 256 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: Brad Benson. So Brad Benson's not going to make the 257 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: Pro Football Hall of Fame. He's not going to probably 258 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: if you look at the length and breadth of Giants history, 259 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: he's not going to necessarily stand out really in any era, 260 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: even in the eighties when the Giants got to their 261 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: two Super Bowls in nineteen ninety. But what I remember 262 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: about Brad Benson oh so well is what an irreplaceable 263 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: part he was on an offensive line that started, I think, 264 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken, Bob thirty seven games in a row, 265 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: including playoff games, and was even though no player on 266 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: that line was what you would call in any way 267 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: a singularly dominant player, it was just a great example 268 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: of how team play leads to great things. That was 269 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: a great team offensive line, and yet not a soul 270 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: on that line will ever get a vote to go 271 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: to Canton. And even though you know it was a 272 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: Super Bowl winning offensive line. So I appreciated even though 273 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: Brad Benson was ninety ninth okay, on this list, I'm 274 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 2: just glad he made it. He should be on the list. 275 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: Brad Benson is what this sport is about. It's about 276 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: players who do exactly what their coaches say and become 277 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: really important and vital players on championship teams. So that's 278 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,479 Speaker 2: the other one I was really happy about and was 279 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: really kind of fun to judge against other great giants 280 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: in history. 281 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: So just in kind of recapping here, we did one 282 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: through twenty five, and whoever got a first place vote 283 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: got twenty five points. Whoever got a second place vote 284 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: it got twenty four. I took all the ballots, I 285 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: added up the point totals. That's how we got to 286 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: consensus one to twenty five. Then we did the same 287 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: thing for twenty six to fifty. Whoever got the most 288 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: votes in that group twenty five points. So that's how 289 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: this list was. We didn't debate it, we didn't negotiate it. 290 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: I didn't roundtable it. And you had given me the 291 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: advice of the Hall of Fame. The vote is the vote, 292 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: and you're asking people to give their opinions and make 293 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: their votes. The Hall of Fame voting is not open 294 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: for discussion. You made debate players in that room, but 295 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, once you come up 296 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: with your list, you don't say, well, you know what 297 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: we should add or move this one or move that one, 298 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: which I think made it as democratic as humanly possible. 299 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: Can you just talk a little bit about number two 300 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: because the race Listen, we all know that Lawrence Taylor 301 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: is number one, but the point total between Lawrence Taylor 302 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: and Roosevelt Brown was not as slam dunk. It's not 303 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: like it was neck and neck. But Roosevelt Brown got 304 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: his props. And I try to explain to younger fans 305 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: today he was the Jonathan Ogden of his era, to 306 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: use a modern day player as an example, And I 307 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: think number two is the perfect spot for Roosevelt Brown. 308 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think one of the things I like about 309 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: the placement of Roosevelt Brown is that when you think 310 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: about it, Bob, this was one of those guys and 311 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: Wellington Marra, Roosevelt Brown in the fifties came out in 312 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: the draft. I think it's sometime in the early fifties. 313 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 2: I forget what year. Okay, so when he came out 314 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 2: in the draft. It came out afterwards that he was 315 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: one of those players who because he played at Morgan State, 316 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: you know, a historically black school, and because he played 317 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: at Morgan State, the Giants I'm sure didn't scout him 318 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 2: or know very much about him. You know, a lot 319 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 2: of what was known in those days about prospects in 320 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: the early history of really the early modern history of 321 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: the league was done through like football magazines, and he 322 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: got a lot of really positive comments in football magazines 323 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 2: about guys from small colleges who could play in the NFL. 324 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 2: Giants picked him. I don't know what twenty twentieth three, 325 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: I forget what round it was, but they picked him 326 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 2: way way down the line. And I think what was 327 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: really cool about his career, Okay, like he was All 328 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 2: Pro six or seven times, and he was in the 329 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: Pro Bowl every year, and yet at that time, at 330 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: that time, the Giants were battling the Colts and then 331 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: the Packers for league supremacy, and they needed a dominant 332 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: tackle to make their running game go. And I just think, 333 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 2: you know, one other thing about Roosevelt Brown that I 334 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: appreciated is someone who actually voted on the NFL's seventy 335 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: five year team. This was probably thirty years thirty years ago. 336 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 2: I think it was Roosevelt Brown made it. And so 337 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: imagine that you're saying that this guy in the first 338 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: seventy five years was one of the best offensive linemen 339 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: ever to play in the NFL. And when you hear that, 340 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 2: and when you realize that, you realize that this guy 341 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: was one of the first really big men whatever six 342 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: four to two sixty whatever he was. And then later 343 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 2: I got to know him as a scout when he 344 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 2: was a scout for the Giants in the eighties and 345 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: he'd come around training camp all the time. I would 346 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 2: see him and talk to him. He's really nice fellow. 347 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: But I just think that that made me happy because 348 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: it was a nod toward all eras of the Giants. 349 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: And it wasn't like, Okay, we're putting Harry Carson, Michael 350 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: Strahan and Eli Manning and Phil Simms. We're putting them 351 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: all in the in the top six or seven. That's 352 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: that's no good list. You know, you gotta you have 353 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: to have a nod to history. And Roosevelt Brown two, 354 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:51,719 Speaker 2: Mel Hind three, Emlyn Tenelle six, Andy Robstelli ten. I 355 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: mean that is a nod to the fact that I 356 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 2: think this committee respected history and and really wanted to 357 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: identify the truly great giants of yesterday. 358 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously Eli is in his first year of eligibility, 359 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: and there's a chance somewhere down the road he winds 360 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: up in the Hall of Fame. But the nine others 361 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: that make the top ten. For a franchise that has 362 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: one hundred years of history and eight championships and Championship 363 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: game appearances, you have to have Hall of Famers in 364 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: the top ten. It would be almost a derelict of 365 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: duty to not have Hall of Famers in the top ten. Peter, 366 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking part 367 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: in this exercise of voting on this I know it 368 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: was a lot of work you busy schedule with at 369 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: the time, you having a full time schedule, but you know, 370 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: I think it's an unbelievable list. It's a debatable list. 371 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: People can chatter about it all they want, But your 372 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: time and effort, your guidance in helping me schair this committee. 373 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate it very much, and thanks for joining us 374 00:24:59,080 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: on this podcast. 375 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: Hey sounds great, Bob, I really appreciate you asking me. 376 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: It was an honor to be on the committee. 377 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: That wraps it up for this edition for Peter King. 378 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Papa of Papa's Perspective. Brought to you by 379 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture store and mattress partner 380 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: of the New York Football Giants.