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Speaker 1: Hello there, Happy Friday. Here at the Chuck Podcast. This

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Speaker 1: is a bit of a bonus episode. I don't always

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Speaker 1: not always going to drop four in a week, but

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Speaker 1: this has been one of those weeks, and I know,

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Speaker 1: and the Trump era, there's always one of those weeks,

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Speaker 1: and that's always a word of warning. Sometimes, right just

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Speaker 1: when you think, oh my god, can it get any crazier,

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Speaker 1: something else will happen and it will get crazier. But

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Speaker 1: I do think trying to understand the most important thing

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Speaker 1: on the Trump tariff pullback, right, we all know he blinked.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to figure out how he got there,

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Speaker 1: because understanding how he got there will then tell us

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Speaker 1: I give us at least a better idea of how

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Speaker 1: to be prepared for what is still going to be

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Speaker 1: an uncertain economic climate for at least the next three

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Speaker 1: months possible if it's as if it's as tumultuous as

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Speaker 1: it still looks we're looking at, you know, what's going

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Speaker 1: to be just a tumultuous eighteen months until the voters

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Speaker 1: decide if they want to have a say here on

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Speaker 1: the direction of our economy. But the fact of the

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Speaker 1: matter is, while while Trump sort of stopped what was

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Speaker 1: turning into the beginnings of a republican revolt on this

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Speaker 1: and certainly a major donor revolt on his policies. He

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Speaker 1: has staved that off, but it's not as if he

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Speaker 1: can go back and slap dash this on and hope

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Speaker 1: that he's you know, that the same thing won't happen again.

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Speaker 1: So my guest today is Mark Caputo, and I think

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Speaker 1: Mark Caputo, of all the Trump beat writers, probably has

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Speaker 1: the best insight on how this version of Trump World operates.

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Speaker 1: And I say this version because I said it in

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Speaker 1: the previous update, and I'll say it again. Which is

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Speaker 1: the biggest miss The biggest mistake everybody has made with

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Speaker 1: Trump two point zero is assuming Trump one point oh

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Speaker 1: was a blueprint or a model. I think it is

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Speaker 1: pretty clear now Trump one point oh was. The Mike

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Speaker 1: Pence presidency was the right because it was Mike Penson

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Speaker 1: Right's previous who built that cabinet, who built that staff,

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Speaker 1: who built that team. I'd probably throw Jared Kushner in

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Speaker 1: there as sort of the third guy in here.

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Speaker 2: That Kushner.

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Speaker 1: Previous and Pence were stabilizing forces for conventional economic thinking,

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Speaker 1: conventional national security thinking, and conventional day to day governance

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Speaker 1: of the larger entity that is the federal government. And

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Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that by the time Trump got to

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Speaker 1: the end of his first term, he knew exactly what happened. Right,

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Speaker 1: He went through four National security advisors because he didn't

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Speaker 1: like any of them. He went through four chiefs of

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Speaker 1: staff until he got the most compliant one in Mark Meadows, right,

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Speaker 1: and so he kept And so when he built Trump

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Speaker 1: two point zero, he made sure he wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: have somebody that wasn't essentially loyal to his vision, loyal

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Speaker 1: to his ideas, and he certainly wasn't going to use

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Speaker 1: his running make pick to quote unquote build a bridge

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Speaker 1: to another wing.

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Speaker 2: Of the party.

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Speaker 1: Now, look, he had picked Mike Pence because there was

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Speaker 1: he needed to try to heal. He needed to try

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Speaker 1: to reach out to a wing of the party that

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Speaker 1: was skeptical of him, the evangelical community, and he thought

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Speaker 1: Pence would help him with that, as well as mainstream conservatives.

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Speaker 1: And then he didn't know anything about how Washington worked,

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Speaker 1: and so he delegated a lot of authority to Mike Pence.

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Speaker 2: And Mike Pence, I think, you know.

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Speaker 1: As the more people are learning about the job he

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Speaker 1: did and the things he did that we didn't see

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Speaker 1: every day. You know, there's a core competency to Mike Pence.

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Speaker 1: You may have some ideological disagreements on certain ideas that

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Speaker 1: he had out there, but he had a core competency

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Speaker 1: to him and something that came through during COVID, something

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Speaker 1: that when you talk to a lot of governor's Democrat

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Speaker 1: or Republican that were on those COVID calls, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the chaos was Trump's. The the the planning and

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Speaker 1: getting you know, getting organized was pens. So the point

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Speaker 1: is this is that we have to stop using anything.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those things where if I could

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Speaker 1: erase everybody's brains of Trump one point oh, don't let

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Speaker 1: it make any impact on you on how you think

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Speaker 1: Trump two point oh is going to go or is operating.

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Speaker 1: It is more different than it is the same. This

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Speaker 1: is a brand new style of governing. This is yes,

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Speaker 1: he tested the electric fences in the first term and

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Speaker 1: found out where vulnerabilities were and where they weren't. But

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Speaker 1: it is not lost on me that there's essentially two

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Speaker 1: holdovers from his first term. Steven Miller, who is clearly

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Speaker 1: now thee the keeper of the grievance list as they

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Speaker 1: come up with plans to go get people. This Chris

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Speaker 1: the the chilling effect of launching these investigations against anybody

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Speaker 1: that was essentially a whistleblower. In his first term, Chris Krebs,

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Speaker 1: who was in the cybersecurity uh uh, in the cybersecurity

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Speaker 1: space for the federal government, who was the first Trump

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Speaker 1: appointed official to say this election was.

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Speaker 2: On the up and up.

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Speaker 1: We're going to discuss this, and I discussed this with

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Speaker 1: Mark Puto in a minute, but I do think that

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Speaker 1: you've got to see what this is for the chilling effect,

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Speaker 1: that that the that this administration, and it's more orchestrated

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Speaker 1: by Steven Miller than it is Trump. You know, one

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Speaker 1: thing about Trump is that he has plenty of grievances,

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Speaker 1: but he's usually a bit too lazy to execute revenge fantasy.

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Speaker 1: You know, he has revenge fantasies, but actually to execute

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Speaker 1: the revenges. But Steven Miller has the patients and the

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Speaker 1: and the bandwidth to to do all these things and

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Speaker 1: these lawsuits, these investigations, sending FBI agents to Chris Krebs's house,

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Speaker 1: into miles Taylor's house. Yes, it's about rattling them, and

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit about revenge, but it's also about

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Speaker 1: sending a message to anybody in the current administration. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to speak out, you will you know, you

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Speaker 1: might make the list and be careful.

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Speaker 2: It's why you know you sit here.

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Speaker 1: I saw there's a few lawmakers that would like to

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Speaker 1: see an investigation to see if there was any insider trading,

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Speaker 1: if Donald Trump was trying to give investors a heads

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Speaker 1: up or different people when he when he made his

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Speaker 1: what seemed like a vague tweet about this is a

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Speaker 1: good time to buy you know, did he already know?

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Speaker 1: Was he already giving insider trading? Do you expect do

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Speaker 1: we think that the current iteration of the SEC is

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Speaker 1: going to investigate? I mean, I would argue that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of shenanigans that take place now. Part of

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Speaker 1: the difficulty with trying to figure out is Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: doing insider information or is he just simply being Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump overly telegraphing every movie makes right. He is also

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Speaker 1: somebody who happens to overly telegraph everything he does. And

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Speaker 1: there's you know when you if you know? And I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: there are people that simply speak trump Ism and just

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Speaker 1: used his used his Twitter feed or his ex feed

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Speaker 1: or his truth social feed, whatever whatever we're promoting these

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Speaker 1: days as the guide post to this. So look, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to get investigations and you're

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Speaker 1: not going to get many whistleblowers because I think Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has come to the conclusion that whistleblowers and internal

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Speaker 1: watchdogs were some of the biggest sources of his political

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Speaker 1: problems in his first term, and he wants to eliminate as.

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Speaker 2: As much of that friction as you can.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, the reason I'm dropping this special pod is

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Speaker 1: because I think Marco Puto is going to be able

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Speaker 1: to paint a picture for you and to understand who's

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Speaker 1: you know, who's on the end, Who's who's got his

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Speaker 1: ear in the moment, who doesn't have his ear in

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Speaker 1: the moment?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Who got benched in this? I'm looking at you, Peter Navarro.

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Speaker 1: What is the status of Howard Lutnick?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Does he have a cell by date? Well, everybody in

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Speaker 1: Trump world is a sell by date. We just don't

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Speaker 1: always know what date what dates on the milk carton.

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Speaker 1: But is it sooner or is it later? All these

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Speaker 1: things you're going to learn in this interview, But I

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Speaker 1: do think it's helpful to understand we're all trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what guardrails were working with him, and there

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Speaker 1: was a moment where it didn't look like there's going

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Speaker 1: to be any guardrails on these tariffs, but it turns

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Speaker 1: out there is. Is it rich people calling him and

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Speaker 1: they all have his cell phone number? Is it them

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Speaker 1: that did it? Is it the bond market that did it?

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Speaker 1: Is it members of Congress? Whatever it was, the combination

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Speaker 1: of all of it did serve as a temporary guardrail

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Speaker 1: here on, at least pulling back on the most catastrophic

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Speaker 1: parts of this tariff policy. We're not out of the woods,

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Speaker 1: and by no means is this a healthy economy right now.

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Speaker 1: And I'll be honest with you, I don't see how

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Speaker 1: this gets better for him. I don't see how in

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Speaker 1: this moment he's going to be talking country companies into

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Speaker 1: putting shovels into the ground and building factories in this

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Speaker 1: uncertain business climate. So how does he incentivize that for

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Speaker 1: this tariff policy idea to work? And I'm skeptical it's

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Speaker 1: going to work, because again I equate it to trying

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Speaker 1: to rescue the ice block industry. Refrigeration is what works now.

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Speaker 1: We don't use blocks of ice. I know you're not

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Speaker 1: going to stop the global economy.

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Speaker 2: You can't.

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Speaker 1: You can't just somehow stop it in its tracks, rebuild

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Speaker 1: it somewhere else without having massive, massive, catastrophic.

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Speaker 2: Collateral damage.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you one other thing that I want

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Speaker 1: to leave you with that the tariffs are are already

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Speaker 1: leading to, is that there's already been some business surveys

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Speaker 1: out there that I've gotten my hands on that there

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Speaker 1: is already an uptick in anti Americanism and it's going

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Speaker 1: to impact companies that are associated with America. So already

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Speaker 1: I know some fortune five hundred companies who have gotten

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Speaker 1: some data where they're being told, hey, be prepared for this.

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Speaker 1: If you sell products in Europe, if you sell products

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Speaker 1: in the free parts of Asia, don't be surprised if

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Speaker 1: you see some you know, form some boycotts things like this,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of anger at America right now

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Speaker 1: over these tariffs. And that's the thing that I think

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Speaker 1: is being undersold to this. You know, this may he

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Speaker 1: may believe this is going to help Americans, but if

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Speaker 1: it ends up incentivizing American hate around the world and

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Speaker 1: American hate of our companies and our economy, that doesn't

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Speaker 1: lead to good outcomes for the long term security of

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Speaker 1: the United States. So on that uplifting note on this Friday,

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Speaker 1: particularly this Friday before Pats over, I'm gonna sneak in

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Speaker 1: a break here and when you come back, my buddy

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Speaker 1: from Miami, one of the most plugged in reporters that

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Speaker 1: understands how this Trump White House currently works, and who's

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Speaker 1: closest to the game of thrones.

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Speaker 2: Who's the hand to the king these days? It is

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Speaker 2: mister Mark Caputo.

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Speaker 1: So joining me now is the person who I think

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Speaker 1: has the best pulse on the Trump White House. It's

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Speaker 1: not an easy thing, and we're going to discuss how

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Speaker 1: do you know when to take a Trump source at

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Speaker 1: their word, which is one of the great sort of

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Speaker 1: enigmas trying to that that Washington produces these days. But

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Speaker 1: Mark Caputo of Axios, the beat writer, uh for Trump,

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Speaker 1: I guess you're what's your official title for Axios?

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Speaker 2: Let me get it right, white House is Trump White

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Speaker 2: House reporter?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: National political reporter some sort of.

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Speaker 4: You are.

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Speaker 1: Just to give a little bit of your credentials for

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Speaker 1: those don't realize that one of the reasons you're on

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Speaker 1: this beat. You're sort of the king of Florida reporting.

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Speaker 1: I've known for so long political reporting, and the Trump

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Speaker 1: white House is now basically the Florida produced by Florida

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Speaker 1: power brokers. Donald Trump became a Floridian of sorts and

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Speaker 1: became the Florida Florida man.

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Speaker 2: Let's speak clear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he is now I know hundred percent from New York.

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Speaker 1: But you are the first sort of beat writer not

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Speaker 1: based in Washington for the White House. You are actually

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Speaker 1: based in Miami. You come up a lot, don't get

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Speaker 1: me wrong. You uh were kind enough to speak to

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Speaker 1: my us C class a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: Uh and that was very fat. But here you are.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the number one question I have after

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Speaker 1: the the gyrations of the week with trade and tariff

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Speaker 1: is we know Donald Trump never makes a mistake, So

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Speaker 1: the question is who takes the fall. It appears Peter

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Speaker 1: Navarro has been benched for a while. Now we know

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Speaker 1: you can be benched. It doesn't mean you're ostracized. There's

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Speaker 1: a difference. There's ostracizing there's Benching, and then there's still

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Speaker 1: in the inner circle. Howard Lutnik is the first person

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Speaker 1: I want to ask about, because if the next after Navarro,

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Speaker 1: he is the person seen as the architect of this

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Speaker 1: disaster who's getting blamed.

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Speaker 3: Here, I think you've probably hit it on the head.

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Speaker 3: The interesting thing about Lutnik is that he's got so

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Speaker 3: many critics in the administration, and I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of it just.

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Speaker 2: Boils down to his style. He is this outer Burrow

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Speaker 2: be like, hey.

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Speaker 3: I gotta tell you something, And he's got the He's

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Speaker 3: got a lot of these Trumpet qualities where like like,

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Speaker 3: no one knows finance better than I. Now, don't get

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Speaker 3: me wrong or me uh, I mean, he's a billionaire,

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Speaker 3: self made man.

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Speaker 2: Et cetera.

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Speaker 3: But you know, in the Trump White House, it's like highlander, right,

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Speaker 3: there can only be one.

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Speaker 2: There only can be one.

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Speaker 1: But that's the thing, Like, it is always funny to

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Speaker 1: me to watch Republican members of Congress who is giving

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Speaker 1: him this bad advice? Who is telling him to do

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Speaker 1: these things? And you're like, wow, you know you you

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Speaker 1: know it can't be, dear leader, We know this, So

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Speaker 1: who's the bad whisperer? Here right, like, so, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean Donald Trump, Donald Trump's wanted to do that. Let's

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Speaker 3: just be clear. Donald Trump is wanted to do this.

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Speaker 2: For thirty years or whatever it was when we first.

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Speaker 3: Talked about running. The reason he had Peter Navarro there

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Speaker 3: was to cook up a formula. And the formula you

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Speaker 3: cooked up, according to every analyst who knows what they're

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Speaker 3: talking about, was just absurd.

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Speaker 2: The columns were wrong.

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Speaker 3: But Dave Trump what he needed, and so Navarro sort

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Speaker 3: of served his purpose. But I want to be clear

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Speaker 3: about Lutnik is, while I understand all the reporting that's

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Speaker 3: been done about people being annoyed with him and oh

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Speaker 3: he went off script and oh we did this. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: as of now, and this could change in five minutes

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Speaker 3: between when you post it, as of now, Howard Lutnik

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Speaker 3: is in good stead. I mean, it's basically like him

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Speaker 3: the Commerce Secretary and the Treasury Secretary Scott besson't and Besting'

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Speaker 3: is crew of the leader. But they're operating sort of

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Speaker 3: in tandem.

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Speaker 2: And if if.

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Speaker 3: Lutnick was really on the outs this way, he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be on television all the time.

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Speaker 2: And he's on telephone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I take that, and I but I tell you

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Speaker 1: what wreaked of desperation of him when he wanted to

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Speaker 1: let everybody know he was in the White House at

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Speaker 1: the moment giving that tweet out, And that told me

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Speaker 1: he clearly wanted to send the message I'm not on

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Speaker 1: the outs, I've not been I'm not the I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting blamed here, I'm sitting with your leader, right And

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Speaker 1: it was like it it really was sort of a

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Speaker 1: proof of life right the way he worded that tweet.

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Speaker 1: So it told me he certainly was worried he was

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Speaker 1: going to get scapegoatd How's that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, he knows and his people know that there

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Speaker 3: are multiple people in and around the administration that don't

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Speaker 3: like him. And even though he's a billionaire, he bought

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Speaker 3: a thirty million dollar house in the DC area, and

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Speaker 3: he wants to be able to live in it for

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Speaker 3: more than a few months before he kind of has to.

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Speaker 2: Go back home.

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Speaker 1: By the way, the high end real estate market in DC,

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Speaker 1: my goodness, Stryt, Mark Zuckerberg, Howard Lutnick. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: first administration, it was really just Wilbur Ross that truly

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Speaker 1: planted some expensive stakes into this boy. This is another

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Speaker 1: level there does feel as if a lot of people

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Speaker 1: feel the need that to get close to deer leader,

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Speaker 1: you've got to live You've got to live here, You've

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Speaker 1: got to have a house here.

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Speaker 3: One of the you're talking about the sort of the

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Speaker 3: deer leader dynamic. There's a really good his treat book

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Speaker 3: called The World by Simon Sebeg montafy Or, and at

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Speaker 3: the very beginning of it he points out how potentates

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Speaker 3: throughout history have courts that are characterized by the closeness

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Speaker 3: to power is equals the more power you have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you just used that phrase. That's exactly

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Speaker 1: this is. This is his core totally right. You know,

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Speaker 1: he has certain people that he wants in it to

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Speaker 1: play with until he's tired of them, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and he's by the way, and he'll get tired of them.

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Speaker 2: We know this.

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Speaker 1: We just don't know who get in what order do

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Speaker 1: they get ostracized and replaced?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, not to engage too much in the

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Speaker 3: sort of the Trump world survivor, but yeah, I guess

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Speaker 3: it's sort of down. The betting markets are probably down.

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Speaker 3: Are are most likely to forecast either WHATNIK departing or NSA.

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Speaker 3: The National Security advisor Mike Waalts, who.

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Speaker 2: Oh to which one? Which one? Yeah? Yeah? So I

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Speaker 2: mean if you're if you're a betting man, you know.

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Speaker 1: All right, But let's talk about because I think the

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Speaker 1: biggest fear many many folks had, including myself, was what

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Speaker 1: if you know, we all look, I think we all

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Speaker 1: assume the markets were going to be a guardrail with

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Speaker 1: Trump on these policies and it for the entire weekend.

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh no, what if this is Thelman Luise?

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Speaker 1: What if he's like, you know what, I ain't running again.

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to do this. I believe in it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm never going to be poor? What

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Speaker 1: do I care? Let's go right? And then he did

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Speaker 1: finally change course. What did it?

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Who spooked him? Who scared him? Who had the ear?

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Speaker 1: Who is the real guardrail?

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Speaker 2: Here?

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Speaker 3: Is it? Best from my reporting which I wrote, is

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Speaker 3: there were basically three factors that combined to have Trump

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Speaker 3: change his mind. Number One, he was hearing from every

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Speaker 3: possible CEO, so E Susie Wilder.

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Speaker 1: And they all have him at speed down, don't they correct?

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Speaker 1: Or between him and her, they all have these two

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Speaker 1: cell phones, so they were getting direct agitated calls.

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Speaker 2: So you get correct and that that's there.

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Speaker 3: But but the three factors bottom line were besn't and

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Speaker 3: and Lutnik went in there certainly with the hope of

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Speaker 3: getting a pause, and so their pitch was, hey, we

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Speaker 3: got seventy five countries that want to make a deal now,

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Speaker 3: and we don't have the time and staff to do this. Like,

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Speaker 3: let's sort of like, how do you And they didn't say,

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Speaker 3: let's do this. Apparently they said, what do you want

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Speaker 3: to do? Right, like, because you don't tell Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: what to do with you present the.

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Speaker 2: Hockey choice, right, you know. So so that was one.

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Speaker 3: The second one that was part of it was China is, hey,

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Speaker 3: China came out and disrespected you with raising the tariffs,

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Speaker 3: and now you have this goal and opportunity of doing

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Speaker 3: a pause, making a deal with everyone and isolating China

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Speaker 3: and putting a ring around China. And then the third one,

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Speaker 3: and this is probably not in order if you think

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Speaker 3: about it, it's just the bond market and the stock market.

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Speaker 3: But really, like the bond traders are still that's still

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Speaker 3: the spine of the being of the vertebrate of the

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Speaker 3: United States and perhaps global financial markets and it is gold.

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Speaker 2: It is the gold bar.

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Speaker 1: Of the twenty first century. Gold bars are great, Treasury bonds.

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Speaker 2: Are greater, are greater.

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Speaker 3: So so it was sort of those three factors. It

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Speaker 3: was not just sort of one person. And though it

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Speaker 3: wasn't as only Bill Ackman out there pounding away on

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Speaker 3: Twitter like oh please.

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Speaker 2: Really, Bill Ackman's tweets didn't have an impact up shot,

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Speaker 2: they did not.

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Speaker 3: You're talking about It's like coffee plantation or something like

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Speaker 3: a heart goes out to you.

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Speaker 2: But you know Trump.

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Speaker 3: What's always interesting about Trump, especially the more time you

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Speaker 3: give him, is while he is not known for telling

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Speaker 3: the truth, is that there is a sodium pentathl quality

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Speaker 3: about Trump.

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Speaker 2: He always tells you.

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Speaker 3: Correct, you've just got to content figure out that yesterday

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Speaker 3: He's like the ball.

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Speaker 1: Market, Yeah yeah, and and and yet, dear leader. Yet

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Speaker 1: you know Levitt, the bag dad Bob. God, what is

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Speaker 1: she doing.

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Speaker 2: She's doing what she's supposed to do with That's her job,

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 1: But it really does feel like bagdad Bob has met

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Speaker 1: North Korea. Between that and these and these reports about

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Speaker 1: his golfing, I mean.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I mean, you know.

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Speaker 3: What I found interesting over the past week, and I,

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Speaker 3: of all weeks to take off, I took last week

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Speaker 3: off because I had a some personal things.

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Speaker 2: Please.

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Speaker 1: I used to tell this of people that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I told this to my friend Kristen Walker. What's who

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Speaker 1: was paranoid that she was going to miss something at

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Speaker 1: first Tart, But I'm like, first of all, yes, you're

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Speaker 1: going to miss something, but I promise you, literally, the

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Speaker 1: day you get back, there'll be seven new developments that

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Speaker 1: will make it irrelevant that you missed something. Mark, I

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Speaker 1: say the same thing to you, Sure you really actually

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Speaker 1: did miss a thing?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm you know, it's always kind of good to

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Speaker 3: be in the flow. But what was notable for me

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Speaker 3: throughout the process here was that this is a team

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Speaker 3: that he has assembled that believes in him, and they

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Speaker 3: weren't sending the words like oh my god. Because if

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Speaker 3: this or Trump number one, like the Trump one point

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Speaker 3: zero Trump forty five White House, there would have been

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Speaker 3: all these reports about.

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Speaker 2: This guy's crazy, this guy's mad. Jared Kushner.

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Speaker 1: What if Jared Kushner would have done their leak and

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Speaker 1: their official leaky, right, yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Clearly when your I'd be like you sure you guys

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Speaker 3: aren't nervous, like, well, you know, but you know, this

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Speaker 3: is what he campaigned on, they said, which is not

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Speaker 3: fully true. Donald Trump didn't campaign in the idea like, hey.

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Speaker 2: Uh, trade war, trade war with the entire world.

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Speaker 3: With the entire world, and by the way, you're gonna

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Speaker 3: have to swallow some you know, some pain here, right.

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Speaker 4: He didn't talk about the toughness the opposite, right prices,

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Speaker 4: I mean, my my, I remember, you know, it was

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Speaker 4: sort of like Kamala equals high prices, Trump equals low prices, right,

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Speaker 4: Like that.

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Speaker 1: Was the They were putting out yard signs that said that.

439
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: Towards the end, I mean, you talked.

440
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 3: About the Kamala crash. Just everything, hold on for half

441
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 3: a second. I gotta plug in my computer if you

442
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 3: don't mind, just so that we don't lose power. All right, fantastic,

443
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: We're back. Yeah, that's a good edit there. People will

444
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 3: not even know we were missing.

445
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: So it's interesting comparing Trump one and Trump two because

446
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: I the morn you know, there was a whole group

447
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: of voters who told us, well, you know, they thought

448
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: that a Trump one wasn't so bad, right, And it

449
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: turns out, well, Trump one was an entirely different administration

450
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: Trump one was the Mike Pence Writ's previous administration. Those

451
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: two basically filled the cabinet, filled the White House staff

452
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: for the first year, and in some ways it it

453
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: ended up populating in parts for the entire four years.

454
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: And it was a series of essentially professional conservatives who

455
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: were guardrails on Donald Trump's crazy Donald Trump figured that

456
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: out by a year or two into his first term

457
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: and wasn't going to let that happen again.

458
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: Right.

459
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: The people who are out him now are either the

460
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: unconventional picture, or true loyalists, or people who became true

461
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: allies who knew what they were getting. Into the latter category,

462
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: Marco Rubiyat.

463
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: Who decided they wanted the accent that they were willing

464
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: to trade their potential reputation. You know, by the way,

465
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: what do you make of you said that there wasn't

466
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: many leaks. There was there was somebody friendly to Bessant

467
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: who was leaking. Oh he wants And you and I

468
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: both know Trump isn't going to like that. No, And

469
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: I wonder how much rope, how much leeway Besson's going

470
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: to get, or if he better, he better fix that

471
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: at some point.

472
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to name names, but I'm pretty

473
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: sure I know who leaked that story to Politico about

474
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: bessent't flying back with Trump flying down there. What was

475
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 3: totally left out of the story was that Howard Ludnick

476
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 3: was there at mar A Lago with Donald Trump and

477
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: flew back with Bessett and was basically saying the same thing.

478
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: But you often find this.

479
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 3: In politics, where the lieutenants of the principle right where

480
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: the cardinals around their little pope hate the other pope

481
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 3: so much more than you know, the kind of the

482
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 3: rival popes would sort of hate each other, dislike each other.

483
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 3: And in that case, though it is true that Bessont

484
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: has essentially been elevated more by Trump to be the

485
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 3: tariff guy, I think Lutnik is a little too trumpy

486
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: for Trump's taste, and Trump wants more of a cerebral, calm, cool,

487
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 3: collective chess player instead of the sort of more wild man,

488
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: you know, crazy trader that Trey Durr, not Trey Torr,

489
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: by the way, that.

490
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: You know the.

491
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: By coincidence before Trump made his announcement, Owen Cass who

492
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: is sort of more of an ideological guy who's been

493
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 1: sort of works at one of the think tanks that

494
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: are trying to create intellectual and intellectual argument for trump Ism.

495
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: You know, we can debate, you know, some of these,

496
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: but he at least laid out a way you could

497
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: have done all this. Yes, that would have given some

498
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: certainty to be given the business community time to absorb,

499
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: given trading partners time to negotiate.

500
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: Should we look at that as the model?

501
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 3: Now?

502
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: Are they now going, okay, let's try to be more

503
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: orderly about this, And should we expect something a bit

504
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: more orderly going forward?

505
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: Or is Trump going to get impatient again? Yes? And yes,

506
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: I think so.

507
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: I think there's more of an orderly process. One of

508
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: the things I made sure to avoid in the story

509
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 3: that I wrote about what sort of led up to

510
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 3: Trump putting the pause was, you know, the everyone administration

511
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, Donald Trump, are of the

512
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: deal Grand strategists like, no, folks, this is Donald Trump

513
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: sort of trial and error and experimenting with things in

514
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: real time.

515
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: And I think he.

516
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 3: Had to touch the hot stove a few times to

517
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 3: realize like, oh wow, it really burns.

518
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: But conversely, he also realized that the.

519
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: Market's getting as we're talking now the market. You know,

520
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: it was a one day reprieve. Right, about half of

521
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: it's been given back because we are in a full

522
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: on trade war with China.

523
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: And then that's the real thing they don't like.

524
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: Generally speaking, this is where Trump perhaps is directionally right,

525
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 3: is that, Yeah, the stock market is a global financial

526
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: correct issue.

527
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: This is the globalists.

528
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: And when you try to do it America first. I'm

529
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 3: putting it in air quotes as much as scare quotes.

530
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: When you do an America first policy to import job

531
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: or grow your domestic manufacturing and change the United States economy,

532
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: the globalists sort of punish you for.

533
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: You know, the biggest problem Donald Trump has right now is,

534
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that I would look

535
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: I think if he wanted to do this, he should

536
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: have done his tax cut first. And by the way,

537
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: let me ask about that. Is there any regret that

538
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: they misordered this because he could have essentially given people

539
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: their tax cut, given the business community what they wanted,

540
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: certainty on that, and then done this, you know, a

541
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: carrot and stick approach I think is I think this

542
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: tax cut is going to get harder and harder to get.

543
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing right now the more uncertainty and

544
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: the actual economy, the more you're going to have resistance

545
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: trying to do this Republican alone with there is there

546
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: anybody in that West wing right now that wonders if

547
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: they basically misordered their agenda.

548
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: I think the answer to that is yes, but they're

549
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: not telling me, so you can sort of hear it

550
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: in their voice, which is this like, oh, you know,

551
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: it is what it is.

552
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: That's sort of the guiding principle.

553
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the tax guid Even if they get it now,

554
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: it's not gonna have any people aren't going to feel

555
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: like it had any impact on their lives, not whatsoever,

556
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: because you're going to have this inflationary period.

557
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: That's possibly true, but Trump feels really strongly about wanting

558
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: to do this, and you hear when he talks like

559
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 3: no other president could do this or would do this,

560
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 3: Like yeah, part of the reason all the president would

561
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 3: do this is you saw what happened with the stock market.

562
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: But this is the reality is is he is, he's

563
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: the captain of this ship.

564
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: As that. But here's the other thing they gave up, Mark,

565
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: is they gave up the ability to blame Biden for

566
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: the economy. Now this is now all Donald Trump's economy,

567
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: like like he created this shakiness now for better or

568
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: for worse. Obviously, if it works, he gets a bunch

569
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: of credit. But right now, you know, and you're being

570
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: it in the you know. Look it's YouGov and Quinnipiac,

571
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: both of whom I could have methodological arguments about why

572
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't trust. I think both poles

573
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: can over exaggerate the moment, but directionally they're in the

574
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: same place. His numbers approval on the economy look as

575
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: bad as Biben.

576
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: They're not looking good, and I'm not sure it's going

577
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: to get much better because in the end, if you

578
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: want to change the United States in no more of

579
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: a manufacturing society, you have to have manufacturing plants, and

580
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: we really don't have them.

581
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: And where's the shovel. Where's any shovel going into the

582
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: ground on a new factory. Like if I were Donald Trump,

583
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: I'd be desperate for that symbol right now. I'd go

584
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: to the opening if I could find some company to

585
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: break ground on some T shirt factory that is moving

586
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,959
Speaker 1: from Vietnam, right Like, you know, A one thing I

587
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: thought Trump was usually smart about was was sort of

588
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: showman symbolistic showmanship, and they don't even have that.

589
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: They don't have that. And you know, on a more

590
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: granular level, a good example is wood. Right. You know

591
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: they're talking about the we have tariffs on Canada. Now

592
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: you know I live. I live in the southeast.

593
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: A lot of the construction tubuy forst we use here

594
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 3: made out of Southern yellow pine. But the Canadian pine

595
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 3: is superior wood. And the reality is Tenni's got a

596
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: lot more forests and a lot more pine the United

597
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: States does. So if you want to kind of grow

598
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: the United States timber industry, you need to grow treaties.

599
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: But you can't grow pine trees in three years.

600
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: You're not doing it overnight.

601
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: Anything with building, manufacturing plants just doesn't happen.

602
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the Chris Krebs thing

603
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: in the Miles Taylor thing, because it does seem as

604
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: if is there a list Is he going down a

605
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: list of like, Okay, I'm going to get my revenge?

606
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Is it Stephen Miller? Is there somebody that's the keeper

607
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: of this? Because Donald Trump forgets half the enemies that

608
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: he has, So I don't know.

609
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if he does about that.

610
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but I am curious, is this is this

611
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: It's just Miller and just assisting in executing.

612
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: The plan or is Hee the keeper of the flame

613
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: on this stuff.

614
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 3: Don Trobe is surrounded by people who do maybe dear

615
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: to your point, who are.

616
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: Are sort of the bearer of his.

617
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: Grudges, and they do remind him of who wronged him

618
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: and so who reminded him.

619
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: He didn't even really know who Chris Krebs was.

620
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: About Chris Krebs, I think he sort of knew who

621
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Miles Taylor was, but Crebs is sort of a lesser character.

622
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: But yes, there are people around him who say those

623
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 3: sorts of things and sort of remind him. There is

624
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: always the ongoing effort among his advisors to try to

625
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 3: minimize the encounters he has where he has to spend

626
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: time on grieving stuff, and he kind of focuses more

627
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: on his day job. What I wonder about the investigations

628
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: that he essentially authorizer called for of Krebs and and

629
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: Taylor is how serious it's gonna be. I know Pam

630
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: BONDI known her for a number of years as she

631
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: used to be the Florida Attorney General. I that's not

632
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: really her style. But then again, this is cash Ptel,

633
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: a name of someone who did keep an enemy's list,

634
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 3: who would be in charge or is going to be

635
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 3: in charge of investigating this. So how wholehearted this is

636
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: going to be is an open question. I don't know

637
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: what they're gonna find.

638
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: Well, what's the you know, are they really doing an

639
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: investigation or are they sending a message to any potential

640
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: whistleblower in Trump two point zero.

641
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of both.

642
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: But I do think they're going to get visited by

643
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 3: by agents there and they're gonna have to lawyer up

644
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: a person I know, or some people I know from

645
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: Trump one point zero who got hauled before Congress, who

646
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: had to hire lawyers, right and.

647
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: We're never charged, are so.

648
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: Bitter at what happened that even though what Trump is

649
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: now doing with crabs who really had nothing to do

650
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 3: with the Russia stuff.

651
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, all he did was say, hey, the election wasn't stolen,

652
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: say the truth. Yeah yeah, And there was a faction.

653
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 2: In Trump world.

654
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: There are some legitimately aggrieved people who are just out

655
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 3: for blood, and that also populates sort of the broader

656
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 3: Trump chorus.

657
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: Is that the role Todd Blanche is supposed to play

658
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: at the oj that he's there to to sort of

659
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: make make other people's lives miserable. I think that's probably

660
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: more cash. Buttell the keeper of the investigations. But it

661
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: seems like Blanches, Yeah, those are just people. Remember Donald

662
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: Trump wanted the loyalist and people he could trust, and

663
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: Todd Blanch, the Deputytory General, really burned the ships to

664
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: come work for Trump. He left, he had to leave

665
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: a job from another law firm because law firms would

666
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: not let their lawyers work for Donald Trump. He basically

667
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: sold everything, moved to Florida.

668
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 3: He was all in, and so blance has also sort

669
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: of internalized that same thing of it's us versus.

670
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, I'm not just as of this total.

671
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, That's what I was curious, like, how much

672
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: of this is a piece of paper more to threaten

673
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: the current? You know, mid level staffers who who might get,

674
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, ideas in their head that hey, I work

675
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: for the taxpayers. Maybe I don't tell the truth right

676
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: that that happens for a lot of even political appointees.

677
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 1: They sort of they can feel the weight and they

678
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: start to you know, waiver.

679
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: So I think it's more like.

680
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 3: I think I think it's more revenge rather than foresight.

681
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 2: You really think it's right, I just do.

682
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 3: It's like whoever's around, Uh, we're and yes, it does.

683
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: Sort of slippery slope stock it is. Yeah, and I

684
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: think it sends a message.

685
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 3: Uh. And in addition to that, remember they're not particularly

686
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 3: worried in the broader Trump orbit here about whistleblowers and

687
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: future lawsuits, because when this president leaves office, every single

688
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: person who worked for him, whom he likes, is going

689
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: to get a full and complete pardon for everything. Ever

690
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 3: from now until the beginning.

691
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: Of time, every single person will get a pardon if

692
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: they think it. I was just going to say, so

693
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: if you if you turn on him at all or

694
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: you cause him in his head political harm, he may

695
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: not give you that part.

696
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: Oh totally. Yeah.

697
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: I think everyone who decided to get in get on

698
00:36:52,960 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 3: board the the USS. Donald Trump knew the score.

699
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: So I'm going to take advantage of something I learned

700
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: from you when we last saw each other about a

701
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: week or so ago about HHS. And what's intriguing to

702
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: me is look lost in all of the tariff, the

703
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: liberation from Our Savings Day that took place last week

704
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: was the fact that Bobby Kennedy Junior said that the

705
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: measles vaccine was the best way to prevent measles. He

706
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: shows up in the community that doesn't seem like a

707
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: decision Bobby Kennedy Junior made on his own. Is that

708
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: what is happening here and is he is this? Is

709
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: this becoming a West Wing project to try to minimize

710
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: the damage Bobby Kennedy Junior is doing to them almost

711
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: on a daily basis in this world.

712
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: Well, I did a story a few weeks ago about

713
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: how the White White House has had to open up

714
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: a parallel press shop to handle messaging from HHS because

715
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 3: it's been such a mess under Kennedy. And that's largely

716
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: because he has this loyalist who's been within this entire time,

717
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: who has insisted on controlling all things about his messaging

718
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: and his press. And she's bad at the messaging. Name

719
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: is Stephane Spear, and she has terrible press relations. Her

720
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 3: press relations are to not talk to the press, and

721
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 3: so the White House has in many respects taken over.

722
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 2: Now.

723
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: I don't have any insight into how the measles evolution occurred,

724
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: but it's pretty clear that over time what started to

725
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: cause real problems with the White House was just the

726
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: bad way in which his administration didn't publicly respond to

727
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: the measles outbreak like these are generally kind of pretty

728
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: easy thing to do, disasters are, and he didn't really

729
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: follow it. And so the short answer your question is

730
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 3: is yes, they are sort of taking the reins a

731
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: little more. And what's interesting with Kennedy is some of

732
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: his base from the anti vax and vaccine I saw.

733
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 2: That they got him. How dare you recommend a vaccine

734
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:22,720
Speaker 2: that might save lives?

735
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 3: They are and it's not just that, uh Weldon, Congressman Weldon,

736
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: the former congressman.

737
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: From Florida, was up to be the head of CDC

738
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 2: and and they yanked him.

739
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 3: There are there are competing stories as to who called

740
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: for the yanking, by the way, because it is after all,

741
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 3: Trump world.

742
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: But that really kind of I thought you thought it.

743
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was a Florida connection.

744
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: There.

745
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: I can't really tell who's telling the truth.

746
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: But right we are speaking a little in code, not

747
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: to mess with sourcing, but.

748
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: But you know, one person led me to believe that

749
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 3: the official narrative that, oh, some members of the Senate

750
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: don't want weld in there. I was led to believe

751
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: that that's not the full story and it's.

752
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 2: Much more sort of complicated than that. Interesting.

753
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: Well, that's always one of those you're like, God, there's

754
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: so much else going on sometimes that boy, you'd love

755
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: to go down that rabbit hole, but is it really

756
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: worth your time when you've got to deal with day

757
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: to day? And that actually leads me to sort of

758
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: the difficulty. You know, I think as a reporter, there's

759
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: no better beat than Trump right now because it's so fascinating.

760
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 2: There's so much going on.

761
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: However, it's so hard to source up because you don't

762
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: know how you know, most of your sources are bsing you.

763
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: But you've got but there's an art to it, and

764
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: if you can decipher it, you actually can find the truth.

765
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: But it takes time.

766
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: Like I feel like it's studying Trump, and you know,

767
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: I think I know how to decipher some of him,

768
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: but you know, I think you.

769
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: Do a lot more. But how do you.

770
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: How do you decide what the truth looks like when

771
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: you deal with Trump.

772
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 3: Officials generally speaking, And I say this at my peril

773
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 3: is you know, for the stories that I have done.

774
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 3: I don't think I have been as lied to as

775
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 3: perhaps other people, in part because I haven't put.

776
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: Maybe you know who to talk to. That's part of it.

777
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: You know.

778
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: You just have to also understand there are certain people

779
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: if you put them in a position, and this is

780
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 3: not limited to this administration. Yeah, certain people you put

781
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: in a position to lie to you, they're going.

782
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: To lie to you. So correct, That is very true.

783
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:55,399
Speaker 3: The ultimate problem in covering Trump is that is Trump is.

784
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 3: You can talk to the top people who just spoke

785
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: to him and they will tell you, hey, look I've

786
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 3: heard X, Y and Z, and an hour later you

787
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: can call back and say, well, from what I'm gathering,

788
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 3: it's not X Y and Z.

789
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 2: A, B and c.

790
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 3: And then they will say, well, yeah, maybe that's true.

791
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: You know, Oh oh I had that. I've had that

792
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: experience a bunch of times. I've never had Trump. Well,

793
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: you may have talked to somebody who's talked to him since,

794
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: which is like because so many of these guys have

795
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: been burned themselves before, so they don't.

796
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: Just look over the weekend. Is it over the weekend?

797
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 3: Like Donald Trump was like, look, no deal, no negotiation,

798
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 3: no pause. In one of the kind of great meta

799
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 3: examples of the relationship between Trump, the truth, reality, and

800
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 3: the media is.

801
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 2: There was a.

802
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: Social media rumor or a Twitter post that got sort

803
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 3: of misconstru rude on Monday that Trump was gonna.

804
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: Walter Bloomberg, the Walter Bloomberg, I'm Chuck Reuters, by the way,

805
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: nice to meet you.

806
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: You know, I'm Mark Mark Political. Yeah, exactly, Mark Political.

807
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: Ye. But the the they reported that there was going

808
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 3: to be a ninety dight pause, Ruders picked it up.

809
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: Just by the way, Is that now do we now

810
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: go back and say, hey, Walter Bloomberg was right.

811
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 3: And that's the thing with Donald Trump and the Trump administration,

812
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 3: like things can be simultaneously true and untrue, and it's

813
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: just so there's just sort of a lot of approximate

814
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: approximation and this is what these folks are saying. This

815
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: is what these folks are saying, And so you have

816
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: to do the kind of the synthesis between the thesis

817
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 3: and the antithesis.

818
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: All right, let me uh, I'm basically asking you to

819
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: give me the internal temperature check. And certain individuals here

820
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: we've been doing, Howard Luttney, we did Bobby Kennedy Junior.

821
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: So let me ask you, Ques. Yeah, I think Musk.

822
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 2: Remember Musk his standing right now, I mean it's still

823
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: pretty good.

824
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: But you know, the Cabint meeting that just ended, Trump

825
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 3: made sure to go out of his way to praise

826
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 3: how great Elon Musk is. But number one, like the

827
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 3: major charge of his work is done, which was to

828
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: go in there cause hell people fired and shake things down.

829
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 3: And then secondly, he's a special government employee. His charge

830
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: is supposed to end after one hundred and twenty days.

831
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 3: And you know his I think his time has come,

832
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: and he's for this coming series.

833
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: Of episodes in the Trump Show. In this season, I.

834
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: Think he's going to go out, But that does not

835
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: mean he's gone from The Trump Show.

836
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna he's going to be a reappearing character.

837
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting. There were certainly a lot of congressional Republicans.

838
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: I certainly talked to a couple of them who were

839
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: rooting for the Democrats to do really well in that

840
00:44:53,640 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Supreme Court race. If the fallout was minimizing and

841
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: and distancing themselves from Musk.

842
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 3: Uh, Yeah, one of the smart things or maybe it

843
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 3: was one of the honest things that Musk's folks had done.

844
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 3: I wrote the story at the time. Is about ten

845
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: days before that election. They put out a memo saying

846
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 3: if if the Shimmel I think is his name, the

847
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 3: candidate for the Wisconsin Supreme Court was more trumpy and

848
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: if we got out the Trump voters, then he would win.

849
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they created so they were setting up the

850
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: explanation for the loss. Right.

851
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 3: It wasn't Musk, I mean, but the Democrats have been

852
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: bad on a lot of messaging. But one thing they'd

853
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 3: made sure to do is really kind of go after Musk,

854
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 3: and Musk himself is just you know, he's picking fights

855
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: with Peter Navarro, calling him Peter Ritardo on social media.

856
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 3: Not a typical thing that I haven't talked to the

857
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: Chief of staff, Susie Oz about that, But that's not

858
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: the kind of thing that she would necessarily like she was.

859
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: That was the one thing she tried to minimize was

860
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: staff on staff crime. Correct.

861
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 3: But you know, Elon Musk is a different character, and

862
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 3: when you talk to the rest of the staff about it,

863
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: they'd be like, hey, walking to Trump World, this is

864
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 3: how we play.

865
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had let me ask you Marco Rubio, uh, rising, falling,

866
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: staying the same.

867
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: I notably in the Wednesday I'm not sure when this

868
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: runs cabinet meeting, Marc Rubio is seated at the right

869
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: hand of the father, so he's well.

870
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: It is secretary of State.

871
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: It's usually you know, it is the it is the

872
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 1: cabinet post, the first cabinet post that becomes president, by

873
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: the way.

874
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: And so the two guys that Donald Trump is in

875
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: the White House are thrilled with is Rubio and Vance.

876
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 3: And they have very similar just.

877
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: For their media performance.

878
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: They both have the same quality of being able to

879
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: be able to describe very conservative, very Republican, very maga

880
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: things which if other people's had said it would sound horrifying, and.

881
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: Deliver it in a way.

882
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: So both of them are in good stead. That having

883
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 3: been said, there is because it's Trump World. A faction

884
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 3: not in the White House, outside of the White House

885
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: that doesn't like Marco.

886
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: Rubio, that calls him a neo khon and a war pig.

887
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: Is that Laura is that Laura Lumer and her oppo

888
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: research team.

889
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 3: I would I think it's fair to say that Laura

890
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 3: is probably more allied with the people who who would

891
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: like to see someone else in that position?

892
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 2: Correct?

893
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: Yes, And what's notable is that some of the firings

894
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: and the purgings that happened at the National Security Council

895
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: under Waltz all had ties to Rubio.

896
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh that note, Well, I've heard another name that there

897
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: is that is toxic inside Nssay, that is, if you

898
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 2: have any ties to Tom Cotton, that could be too.

899
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know Rubio and Cotton, certainly in the

900
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 3: past we were really.

901
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: Fellow travelers, more symbiotic. I remember.

902
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 3: And was it in twenty ten or was it twenty

903
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 3: fourteen whenn't Cotton first win?

904
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: No, it would have been twenty twelve. Cotton won in

905
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: twenty House in twenty twelve, Senate twenty fourteen.

906
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so I remember, I remember Cotton.

907
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rubio is leading.

908
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 3: Around Miami actually for his his initial Senate right, so

909
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 3: there they were very similar at the time.

910
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, Rubio looked very strong.

911
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: He he shot out of the gate with a lot

912
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: of wins and also implemented that catch and revoke program

913
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: of finding the homosniks in quotes.

914
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: And I tell you that again is some border. I

915
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: that's uh.

916
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: I thought the Constitution applied to anybody in the United States. Yeah, anyway,

917
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: that's going to be That's an interesting This is this

918
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: idea that hey, we're going to monitor the social media feeds.

919
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 3: They're using AI to do it too.

920
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, this is this is big brother shit. Yeah,

921
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: I mean this is yeah. I'm I I don't I

922
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 1: don't think this is going to pass muster in court.

923
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: But maybe they don't care. I don't know. Somebody's losing

924
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: in court they think is good PR with.

925
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: The mood Khalil case, maybe because he's a citizen or

926
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: not a citizen because he had legal permanent residency. But

927
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: for students here on student visas, I think the I

928
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: think the law is a little more on the administration

929
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 3: side where they can start canceling pete.

930
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 2: That could be.

931
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: It just depends on your definition of of I mean,

932
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, just that's thought anyway, borderline thought police stuff.

933
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 2: It's not borderline thoughtfully stuff. It's very thoughtfully stuff, like

934
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 2: very thoughtful.

935
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: Well, and that's the case. I don't think it's I

936
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: just don't think it's constitutional.

937
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: There's a there's an interesting one. I'm sorry to even

938
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: though you'll cut it out.

939
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 3: There's a really interesting case of a Spanish official who

940
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 3: stopped in Miami in like I don't know when Reno

941
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 3: was the Attorney General under Clinton, and he had like

942
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: fifteen thousand dollars in undeclared cash and they didn't know

943
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 3: what to do with this guy. And soas Mexican actually

944
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: was on his way to Spain, and so Reno or

945
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 3: the Secretary of State at the time, exercise their authority

946
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 3: to remove his ability to be in the United States.

947
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 3: And Rubio's using that sort of case to hang his

948
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 3: hat on his ability to have these these powers.

949
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: Welcome to Miami. It does it just, you know, to

950
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: see him do stuff like this.

951
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: I know there's a version of Marco Rubio that criticized

952
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: the Cuban government for doing.

953
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: Stuff like this. Oh much, undred percent.

954
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Like that's that's what makes it so alarming

955
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: to me, because he's executing orders that he would have

956
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: criticized another country, particularly that country, Cuba, from doing that.

957
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: Not to not to bring it all back to Miami,

958
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: but there's that last one. And then I'm gonna let

959
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: you go because it's Florida and I care about Florida politics.

960
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Byron Donald. Oh yeah, this thing is this

961
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: thing is turning into a juggernaut.

962
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 3: The case no the Casey DeSantis story, if everyone needs

963
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 3: to go, read the Miami Herald stories, the Tampa Bay

964
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: Time stories. Casey Desantus is probably going to run for

965
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 3: governor and her husband, the governor, had with her had

966
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: established something called Hope Florida, which was a charity. And

967
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 3: it turns out they got a a They got a

968
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 3: medicaid company of healthcare company that had run a foul

969
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: of the law or overbuild the state to settle with

970
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: the state, and they diverted ten million dollars and send

971
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: it to Casey DeSantis' charity and they can't account for

972
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 3: the money there. It's a nonprofit. There's no nine to

973
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 3: nineties that's the tax form you have to have. There's

974
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 3: no evidence of where the money went. So it's just

975
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: ten million gone. And Casey DeSantis, if she runs, and

976
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: it looks like she will, was going to run on

977
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 3: two things, that she's a mom and a cancer survivor,

978
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: and that she ran this Hope Florida thing that helped people,

979
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 3: and that that one issue is now starting to really

980
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 3: hurt her because for the first time her husband is

981
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: facing a Republican legislature, which is like, uh, oh, not

982
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 3: so fast, what happened?

983
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: I was with, where's the data?

984
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 3: Where are the nine nineties? Where are the forms? It's interesting.

985
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: I was with a with a longtime veteran of Florida

986
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: Republican politics about a week or so ago, and he goes, hey,

987
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: it's really funny the way Rond de Santis thinks he's governor.

988
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 1: Still this was the line he gave to me. I went, wow,

989
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: is it that bad in Tallahassee? He goes, oh, he

990
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: goes to me, can't he can't get any you know, well,

991
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: look you rode the tiger and he thought he won

992
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: and he wound up inside he didn't. That's right, yep, No,

993
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: it is. It is what it is, Mark Apudo. I

994
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: hope you are a regular unofficial cast member.

995
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 2: I would love to.

996
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 1: It's a cameos on the Chuck Todgy. You know, like

997
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: I said, nobody understands the game of throne that is

998
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: Trump World, like you.

999
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate. I think there's some other people, but

1000
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 3: I'll take the compliment.

1001
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: No, there is there is, but you're my favorite narrator.

1002
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: I'll take it.

1003
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: Thank you, all right, Yeah, the art George R. R.

1004
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: Martin of this generation for this administration. See you, my friends.

1005
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for this edition of the Chuck Podcast.

1006
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep this, keep this a bit short. I

1007
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: got a satyr to prepare for. I love, I love

1008
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 1: Passover Jewish Thanksgiving. UH it's it's my second favorite holiday

1009
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: after American Thanksgiving. So for those of you that celebrate that,

1010
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: I hope you have a nice satyr. If you're not

1011
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: Jewish and have and you have been invited to a

1012
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: satyor go it's it. The most satyrs are are entertaining

1013
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 1: a lot of fun and you might accidentally learn something

1014
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 1: too when you're that. But if you if you ever

1015
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: get invited to one, UH take you should take the

1016
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: invite up.

1017
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: It's a it's a it's a it's an interesting thing

1018
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: to UH to to observe and participate in.

1019
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: So with that, for those of you that celebrate that holiday,

1020
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: and I know we're preparing for uh many of the

1021
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: Christian holidays coming up at the end of the end

1022
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: of next week with Good Friday and Easter. So with that,

1023
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: I hope you UH travel safely if you're traveling, enjoy

1024
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: time with your family, and I will see you on

1025
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,479
Speaker 1: all of these channels again soon until we upload again.

1026
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 3: H