WEBVTT - Ep. 423: Spittin' and Struttin’ 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:12.720 This is a me eater podcast, coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.640 severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening uncast, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:23.360 you can't predict anything presented by first Light, creating proven 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.880 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:35.760 For every hunt, first Light, Go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.360 We're coming coming at you from Florida, where I'm where 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.519 I've basically become an honorary resident. I've been down here 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.760 sadamn long. It's like I've met everybody in the state 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.360 back to back, heard all the problems I've been like, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.680 I've been on a man, I've gotten an earful. It's 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:56.120 like two weeks, I've gotten an earful for what. Oh, 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:01.600 just all the like all the issues in Florida. Oh, 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:03.760 you've heard all the issues in Florida. Yeah. I've been 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:08.479 on a whirlwind tour, talking to talking to many different sportsmen. 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:16.360 The most surprising thing to me down here is how unpopular, 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.760 how unpopular among the folk I've met, How unpopular the 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:32.240 panthers are in one way, okay, like people think they're 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.160 gonna get their dogs and just from hunts. From a 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:41.000 hunting standpoint, it's remarkably similar. It's like it's such a parallel. John, 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.440 Am I boring you? No, not at all. Just gotta 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.880 just taking care of a little loose ender right here 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:55.360 seems to be important. Listen it uh okay, the parallels, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:01.040 the parallels between what the parallels between the wolf debate 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.880 in the Northern Rockies soon to be in the Southern 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.839 the debate that's being relocated to the Southern Rockies. But 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:16.760 the wolf debate in the Northern Rockies and the panther 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.480 issue in Florida, even though we're talking about far fewer 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.000 numbers of the actual animals on the ground, is remarkably 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:31.040 si similar. Down to the point. Now I listen, I'm 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.400 not I'm gonna what I'm doing right now. I'm I'm 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.560 trying to be like a journalist right now. I'm not 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.800 saying what this This is not me saying what I 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.800 think is. Oh, I'm gonna preface. This is saying something 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:50.360 joined today by Richard Martinez. Hey, Steve, most interesting job 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:51.840 on the planet. Can you tell people what you do 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:56.440 for work? I'm an art handler, That's my profession. I 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.919 help manage an art handling company in West Pond Beach 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:03.240 and Uh yeah, I handle fine art, any kind of 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:09.840 fine art, logistics, moving, packing, shipping, installation, protection of fine arts, storage, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.840 you know. Uh. Me and Ridge ponder, we think we 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:18.720 found in this very house the original Live Love Laugh sign. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.280 And we were thinking, well, we were thinking about stealing 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.440 it and hiring you to move it back up to 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.840 where we live. This is a this is live Love 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:37.680 laugh A long how a long first one was like 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.040 this one. But what does it look like? Nineteen fifty 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.880 three role played how we thought it came about. We 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.560 thought it came about where there's a guy saying there, 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.120 you know, he's like, and I thought to myself, what 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.760 do I really care about? Laugh? And he said, well, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.920 I like to be alive, because you know, if you 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.080 ain't alive, you're dead. And he thought, what else do 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.200 I like? I like the laugh? Yeah, that's pretty good. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.360 And then his wife walked in. I like my wife. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.440 He had named her yet, and he got guilty feeling. 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.960 He's like, and yeah, I love my wife. That's what's 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.680 important to me. Check laugh check. And that's where that 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.159 came from, and it spread like wildfire until today we 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.640 found yesterday we found the original. It's a little plaque. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:29.080 What was I saying, oh, well, before you go on, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:36.440 mine would be live laugh turkeys, not no, no turkeys, yeah, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:42.760 live love turkeys. Careful there. So, uh, We're down here 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.600 hunting with Richard Martinez and that's just one of the 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.320 main things I've done in Florida. But the minute I 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.640 got here, Chester's also here and Seth Morris, so I'm 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.760 not too that Garrett Smith and thanks so just for 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.559 my dad. Stay tuned for that part, folks. The minute 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.720 I met Richard, we well, no, because we met at 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.320 a live show. We did a live show in Boise, Yes, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:07.640 and you said, you guys should apply for a turkey 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.400 tag at one of the apply for a turkey tag 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.720 at one of the wildlife management areas in Florida. And 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.440 and how many years did it take? Four took a 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.040 while to draw. Yeah, four years, because we're like non 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.680 resins with no points or whatever. We've been starting from scratch, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.440 starting from scratch. Is it easier for resident to draw that? 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.440 You'd have to fact check me. But what I've been 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.960 told is that there's a ten percent cap for non 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.359 residents on the quota. Gotcha, That's why it took me 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.760 and Yana's so long to draw. So the minute I 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.920 met Richard for the second time. So I met him 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.560 the first time, I had a live show. And do 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.240 you remember why we liked him? I can't remember why 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:53.520 I liked him. I mean, I like him all over again, 0:05:53.760 --> 0:06:00.280 but can't remember why I originally like, he's we got 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.840 a lot of people offer us a calm, cool and collective. Yeah, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.960 well something structure. My first impressions. First thing when I 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:09.839 met him, he tells me about his friend who hates me, 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.080 And I'm like, what do you mean he hates me? 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.279 And he's talking about his friend hates me. This is 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.080 the perils of of doing journalism like I'm about ready 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.640 to do on the panther issue, because the reason he 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:24.200 hates me is we had a We had a a 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.839 us GS biology so you will United States Geological Service 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:36.040 biologist on talking about the Burmese python and this biologist 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:41.080 who's working on the Burmese python problem, he's talking about 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:46.919 his friend hates me for something. The biologist said, who's 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.320 working on the Burmese python problem? And I was like, oh, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:53.640 so he loves pythons. Oh no, no, he hates pythons too, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.159 but he didn't like a thing that the individual said 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:02.120 about pythons, right, is this your snake biologist, buddy? No, no, no, no, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.280 So he didn't like that. The guy said that numerically, 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:12.680 python hunters aren't having a meaningful impact on pythons. That 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:14.800 was this guy's take. Can I ask the side question 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.200 to Richard on that, Yeah, if you really want to 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:18.800 get into it. But I'm trying to get somewhere else. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.600 But go ahead, Yeah, but just watch in my head, Um, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.480 what's the chances of one of those big pythons being 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.280 on the property we were, we're hunting some more probably low. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:34.400 I think they're more prolific as you move further southeast. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.520 So we saw what seemed to be a snake track 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.400 going across the road. Well, we've got a lot of 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.400 snakes here, but it looked big. Didn't didn't look big. Yeah, 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:48.400 but I don't think it was like python, big gator. No, 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.920 it was. It was a snake. When you say, well, 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.560 I yeah, I asked some other dudes and they said no. 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.560 They said they'd heard of it, but they haven't seen 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:02.160 one that That snake track struck me as a big snake, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.600 like a chester or eating size. Anyway, go ahead, So 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.440 that's been weighing on my mind, and it's weighing on 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.840 my mind as I waded into this, because I realized, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.560 you know, that's saying uh uh you know in the 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:22.480 West waters for drinking no whiskeys, for drinking waters, for 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:27.520 fighting about water rights issues. I've been thinking about what 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.800 since I've been here, I've been thinking, Florida's for fighting 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:38.320 well made up mostly of water, Florida's for fighting. We're 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.040 fighting over water, yeah, every every and these are like 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.079 honest like these are like hard work and honest to 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:50.200 goodness out outdoors people and man. Just a lot of 0:08:50.240 --> 0:09:00.480 contentious issues in Florida around pythons, panthers, three peas by pans, 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:05.920 panthers and people people. Oh that is a three piece pythons, panthers, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:11.080 people in water, which is a w and man like 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.600 a contentious environment. Absolutely, But the point I was getting 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:20.679 as how contentious the panthers are, and it has parallels 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.320 to the wolf issue in the Northern Rockies, right down 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:29.960 to the idea that the panther here now isn't the 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.960 panther that was here before, to the point that I'll 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:39.719 meet hunters. I've met hunters who say deer numbers have collapsed. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.640 Now I'm just reporting what people I've been getting yearful 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:50.440 from everybody on different things. Deer numbers have collapsed in 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:56.600 many of these areas. Okay, they've collapsed because of the 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:03.599 introduction of panthers. And I'll say, but when you say introduction, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.000 that doesn't make sense because it was not even a reintroduction, 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.679 like the Florida panther was always on the landscape. Admittedly, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:13.920 it got down to very few, it got down to 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.800 less than fifty. At the point that it was left 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.360 less than fifty, they brought in seven or eight females 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.040 from Texas to supplement the population because they were seeing 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.040 some inbreeding issues, so they brought in some females from Texas, which, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:32.199 in and of itself, even among panther people, people got 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.800 to fight about that because they had fallen in love 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.280 with the Some folks had fallen in love with the 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:44.760 idea that the Florida panther was not like everybody else's panther. Yea, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.200 Now it's all puma con color. It's all the same species. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.920 So whether you're talking about a cougar in California, mountain 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:56.880 lion in Montana, someone hits one on the road in Connecticut. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.520 You're in southwest Florida. Okay, it's all the same species. 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.360 A lot of people think panther, and they think black panther. Yep, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:14.840 it's the beast of many names, um mountain, lion, cougar, painter, catamount, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.679 there's more. All the same crater, all the same crater, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.839 and the Florida panther. Like Florida made the same steak 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:24.880 with their black bears, which we'll get to in a 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:26.880 minute here, and we've got some more stuff to cover off, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.760 made the same mistake with their black bears by declaring 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:35.160 that it's the Florida black bear and not just like 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.440 the same like the black bear that used to exist 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:45.040 everywhere from the from California to New York, from Yukon 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.679 to South Florida, like the black bear, the panther versus 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:55.400 American versus American the black The panther was at a 0:11:55.480 --> 0:12:00.200 time the most wide like of any It had the 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:09.360 most widespread distribution of any large mammal in the New World. WHOA, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.599 I didn't know that. Meaning they've turned up in the 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.520 Mackenzie Delta. Okay, so where the Mackenzie River flows into 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.320 the Arctic Ocean. They've turned up from the Mackenzie Delta too. 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.760 Was it Tierra del Fuego, Chile to the southern tip 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.480 of Chili, Chile to the southern tip of Patagonia. That's 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.880 how widespread coast to coast, top to bottom in the 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:39.480 Western hemisphere. Two continents, two continents. That's cool. Well, it 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.040 got eliminated through poisoning and other things, and it would 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.040 have been patches. So at some point Florida is like 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.680 it's the Florida panther. Not like that. It's just a 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:52.400 little stronghold of the regular old cougar, mountain, lion, painter, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.840 catamount panther that exists all across the continent. Numbers got 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.839 down and they brought in some from Texas, and the 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:02.920 way I've been like the people, the folk I've just 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.960 been talking to, like various hunters are like that. Now 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.680 it's a super cougar that lives in Florida. The same 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.280 way when you're in the northern Rockies. They talk about 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.520 the reintroduction. It was a ninety six or ninety seven six, 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.000 I believe, when they did the wolf reintroduction. There's a 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.600 widespread belief they brought down the meanest, nastiest super wolves 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.400 like the meanest. We even heard a guy. We even 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.719 met a guy one time in British Columbia who's saying that. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.199 He was like, oh, yeah, my buddy worked on getting 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.120 those wolves and they'd poke them all with the stick 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.960 and get the meanest, nastiest one. Yeah, they had thirty 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.360 or forty of them in a big old pen, and 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.079 then they they weeded out the ones that had growling 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.920 the most. He said, they'd poke them with a stick 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.319 and whatever wolves got most riled up there like sena, Yes, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.840 stupid Americans, here you go super wolves, and there's the 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.760 idea that by bringing in these seven or eight can 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.400 you do you mind looking up how many females they 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.400 brought in? Check me on app from and look up 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.560 where in Texas they came from. That's the first time 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.960 they'd introduced they supplemented or supplemented the native they supplemented, 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:19.200 so they had probably less than fifty okay, less than 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.880 fifty Florida panthers and Osman getting to something a minute ago. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.080 Why were people mad about that? They were mad about 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.720 that because they felt that the panther, and the Florida 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:31.400 panther was like special and unique, and people were like 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.760 oh no, if you bring in these Texas panthers, you're 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.200 gonna like mess up the Florida panther. And most conservation 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.680 biologists were like, listen, man, you can have a you're 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:49.680 gonna have no panthers, or you can have a hybridized panther. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.360 But the way you're going right now, it's choosing between 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.680 those two things. They're either gonna blip out or you're 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.320 gonna you're gonna supplement with genetics from Texas. And it 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:05.720 really wasn't going to be a hybridized one because pumicon color. Yeah. Anyhow, 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.560 they did this and it was very effective. That a 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.560 bunch of their protections. It was very effective. And now 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:17.520 with they got less than three hundred. Yeah, that's debatable. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.360 Debatable depends on who you ask. The same thing. I'm 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.960 same thing with wolves. Yeah, same thing with wolves in 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.880 the northern Rockies and so y ask yeah, right, But 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.960 it's it's it is from It is a widely held 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.000 belief under the among the deer hunters. I've spoken to 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:43.640 that um that that has caused a impact cratering of 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.360 deer populations in southwest Florida, which, like you're saying, up north, 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.080 people would say, well, some people would say wolves are 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.040 doing that, yeah, which is like, that's it's not a 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.600 debate that it's an objective reality. It's objective. It's not 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:02.000 a debt point. It's an objective reality that bringing wolves, 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:07.200 like introducing wolves, reintroducing wolves on a landscape has a 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:14.960 profound immediate impact on ELK numbers, Like you can't that 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:20.200 doesn't mean that that doesn't need to mean to everybody 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.000 that they're bad. But it is nonsense. It is nonsense 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.560 to sit and act like that's not true. It's it's 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.120 like infuriating when people want to act like introducing wolves 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:39.160 to a landscape doesn't have a dramatic impact on ELK numbers. 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:43.680 It just does. Yeh, take it or leave it like 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.280 applause it or not, but it does, right, And acting 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:52.160 like they like eat nuts and berries is ridiculous. And 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.680 it's not just that it's not just like them physically 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.960 eating things. Is it causes a dramatic shift in behavior. 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:00.960 And it's like they, I'm out of it. But when 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.000 it hits, when it hits, like when if they do 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:07.200 it in Florida or sorry, when they reintroduce wolves into 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.359 Colorado and the numbers they're talking about they are going 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:15.880 to see a massive decline milk numbers in those places. 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:21.640 It'll it'll crater and it'll creep back up. It won't 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.919 get as high as it was. It like, it'll it'll 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:29.000 drop fast, it'll climb up. This is my prediction. This 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.399 is my l crystal ball. It'll drop fast, it'll slowly 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.879 climb up, and it won't get as high as it was, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.520 because how could it. Yeah, there's predators. It's like you're 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.840 you're putting up. You're like, take there's a there's a 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.600 there's a niche that isn't currently occupied and it'll be 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.080 occupied and they eat seven pounds of me today. It's like, 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:55.639 you can't get around this. UM. I had. I had 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.240 no idea the way I had no idea that that 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:05.760 the that that increase of from sub fifty to two 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.960 fifty three hundred more than three hundred panthers is a 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:11.800 treat to a point where I was taw a new 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:18.560 guy and he was talking about the absence UM. Not 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.120 for Turkey hundred, but in part of my wanderings, we 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:27.240 were down by the Everglades National Park and he's talking 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:34.720 about an absence of UM midsize mammals. Okay, so that 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:41.840 raccoons basically, you know, raccoon's basically gone, grinner's possums basically gone. 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.320 Armadillo's basically gone no, no no. And I said, oh, man, 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.119 I thought that was uh. I thought that was the 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:49.840 whole deal with the whole pythons. Like, I thought that 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.919 was attributed to the pythons. He's like, he thinks that 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.560 the pythons are like a scapegoat. This is just a dude. 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.560 But listen, this is a dude. This is like, this 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.520 is a guy that has spent his whole life out 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:11.320 on the land, his father, his grandfather. That's like all 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:16.000 they've done. Yeah right, they're like self identified gladesman. That's 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.160 all they've done. And he's not a pessimist. He still 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.000 gets very excited about turkey hunting, very excited about squirrel hunting. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.160 But and he's you know, he's not like a conspiracy theorist. 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.680 He's like, man, that's an impact. In my view, it's 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.280 like a scapegoat because you can go to the dry 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.520 areas that just aren't even suitable habitat, and instead of 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.320 those dry areas that aren't suitable habitat becoming like a 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:46.760 refugia for all this stuff fleeing the pythons. They're still 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:52.359 in pash it's not there, yea. But our experience today 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.560 would would say that those are the refugia because we 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:03.320 were in country that U don't doesn't suppose he doesn't 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.280 have or hasn't been has pythons haven't been seen, and 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.840 we saw all those critters. That's a good point in 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.600 a short period of time. Yep. Today we went over 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:16.440 on to a like. Ah, so we hunted two days 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.439 on the WMA, which, holy cow, is just a beautiful man. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.040 I got the hand it to like the like and 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.480 talk about all the contention in Florida. Um, the state 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:32.280 does a beautiful job on those WMAs. Man. I thought 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:36.360 it just gorgeous, gorgeous and very diverse. Just yeah, yeah, 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.960 like gorgeous. Yeah, a big country to walk around in, 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.480 which is not something I expect when I leave the West. 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.880 Right you can go where your where are your feet 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.560 out if you want? Yep, And like a pretty good 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.600 and I found too, like a pretty good blend of 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:59.520 walking hunting. But still some road, you know what I mean. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.440 We never ran across another hunter, now that we're talking, 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.639 we definitely did, but we didn't. I mean in the field, 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.360 we saw other people on the road. But yeah, it's 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.640 not in the woods, not in no woods. Uh. Yeah, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.320 I really liked it, So hats off on that. Oh 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:19.560 would you find Chester? So in nineteen eighty six, three 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.000 females from Texas, I couldn't find it exactly where they're from. 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:28.480 We're brought to Florida. In nineteen eighty eight, seven wild 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.679 caught mountain lions captured in West Texas. We're released in 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:39.080 Florida super super cougars and m let's see. In nineteen 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:45.040 ninety three, nineteen mountain lions, eleven females and eight sterile males, 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.360 both captive raised as well as wild caught, are introduced 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:53.800 into the local panther population. Really and then why sterile males? 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.440 I don't know. And then in probably just for study purposes, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:04.680 in nineteen ninety five, eight wild caught females. Oh, we're 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.119 are captured and released in effort. Yeah, so what's the source? 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.920 So a total of how many I had some Okay, 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:20.280 see you get for just listening to people. I had 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.239 someone there to day telling me all about where they 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.119 came from. And it was like seven females and that 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:28.639 was like the extent of it. Okay, those were thirty seven. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.720 Those were the most recent that really caused that spike. 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.280 So it was like, prior to that it wasn't happening. 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.359 It could have been where the success began. Was that 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:42.480 last and this source is the Mountain Lion Foundation. Okay, 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:48.879 so West Texas super cougars and people are pissed. Man Like, 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.119 I thought it was like widely. I didn't know there 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.800 was the same I didn't know there's the same element. 0:22:54.840 --> 0:23:00.320 But what surprised me. What surprised me is the idea 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:06.600 that it wasn't like a saving existing population, that the 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:12.000 perception it wasn't like saving the Florida panther. It was 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:21.320 sort of like they made they created a predator and 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.119 let it loose upon the landscape. Yeah, something needed to 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:30.639 occupy that space of what the Florida panther was occupying 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:40.960 for various different reasons, and the degree to which not 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:44.440 happy no, and also that some people are like they 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.520 just don't want them. It's like my whole tape like 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:52.080 in the Northern Rockets. I think like generally with the 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:58.280 wolf issue, generally among my peer group, which is broad, 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.800 I was gonna make a consensus. The consensus would be 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:08.760 people welcome wolves on the landscape, but they want to 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:14.520 see them managed right heavily. Yeah. Well, but but it's 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:16.560 not like if you went to most people, like like 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.160 you went to most people you hang out with and said, hey, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:20.720 I'm gonna give you a magic wand if you wave 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:25.960 the magic wand wolves are gone from the lower forty eight. Uh, 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.160 the vast, vast majority of people hang out with would 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:36.439 not touch that Wand there's a happy medium. Do you 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.400 know what? Maybe people that would wave the Wand one 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:43.560 guy's pretty tight with us wood, is that right? Oh? 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.520 But does he have does he have like mixed up? 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:49.240 Because I know, I don't know what because he's got 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:54.320 lion hounds? Oh no, oh, just speaking of the good 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:56.400 old days of elk hunting. Oh, I got it. Okay, 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.840 that's all I hear about that. Like, we know it's 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.240 good the way you have it right now, and you're 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.640 enjoying your elk hunting. But if you had been here 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.960 to see how great it was before those wolves showed up, 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.320 you would want them gone too. Yeah. I gotta say. 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:16.880 I started hunting in Montana the year the wolves showed up, right, 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:19.600 which was the good old day. It was good. Well, 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:24.119 it could be a pressure issue too. There's different factors. Well, no, 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.920 I mean like most those population I want to talk 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.000 about Florida. I want to talk about things besides Florida. 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.600 But mos those I mean you saw like generally you 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:42.639 see two thirds declines. I got a question with the 0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:47.119 Florida with the Florida impact of the panther boost to 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:50.280 the population. Was that aligned with because during the pandemic, 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:54.080 Florida's population boomed, right, a lot of people moved. Yeah, 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:57.399 and that is definitely a factor to this dear population. 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:02.960 Now this gold before you. Yeah, I just carefu. I 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:06.159 had a um, I had a girlier day telling me 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:11.440 that I like that this is hard to measure. She said, 0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:14.920 Florida is the free estate. Oh, I was like pretty 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:21.199 freezing free Ever, the first time I was ever like 0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:24.960 rated like freedom level. This isn't a fact. Yeah, like 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:28.719 freedom levels that's pretty in Arizona, They're like damn it. 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:34.719 Oh yeah, I would think that there'd be some Texans. Yeah, Texas. 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:39.440 She's like Florida's free estate. How big is the Florida 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:46.440 panther range in Florida? Uh, well that's debatable. You ask Yeah, 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:49.919 people when you ask questions, so easily learned by just 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:55.640 looking it up. Looked that up Chester from Yeah, all 0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:58.520 you listeners out there, just look it up. No Chester 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.840 Chesters of Today's researcher Man. That's a fast chat. That's contentious, 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:06.000 meaning there's well I don't believe it is because like 0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:09.000 with I mean, lord, Florida's got a lot of trail 0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:12.320 cams in it, Holy smokes. I just feel like there's 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:15.640 not many panthers and aren't getting photographed. Yeah. Well, there's 0:27:15.680 --> 0:27:19.879 also been a question of are they roving mails that 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:24.200 are going north or are their actual breeding population moving north? 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:28.600 So I think there may be sightings or there may 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.040 be people who feel like they have them in certain 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:34.760 places and that some people attribute that to a roving 0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:38.160 mail or other people's attribute that to an establish population. 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:42.120 But how would anyone expect anything else to happen than 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.960 that they would move north. You have an expanding population, 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:53.320