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Speaker 1: Kitty. Do you remember our last camping trip?

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Speaker 2: Oh, let me think about that. No, because Adam, we

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Speaker 2: don't camp. So do you mean the last time the

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Speaker 2: power was out of the house.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Like I said, camping exactly. And you hear people

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Speaker 3: talk about getting back to nature, but in this modern

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Speaker 3: world that we are in, what you and I need

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Speaker 3: are practical ways to sleep more naturally, and we would

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Speaker 3: like to know would this improve our lives?

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Speaker 2: This is a super important episode because come on, it's like,

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Speaker 2: if we can be more connected to nature and actually

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Speaker 2: connected to each other, I don't know. I have a

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Speaker 2: feeling that it's going to help us stay healthy, including

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Speaker 2: having healthier sleep.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: I'm Katie Low's.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Adam Shapiro and this is Chasing Sleep, a

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Speaker 3: production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we're exploring the bare naked truth about

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Speaker 2: our big, beautiful world, our sleep, and how it's all connected.

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Speaker 2: In fact, Adam, we've been trying to connect our sleep

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Speaker 2: more to the world outside by seeing if we can

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Speaker 2: sink our bodies natural rhythms to the sunrise and sunset rise, sunset.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you and I have been using these sunrise.

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Speaker 2: Alarm clocks and we're really into them.

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Speaker 1: I think it's been amazing.

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Speaker 2: Our guests today are going to help us understand the

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Speaker 2: relationship between nature and health and getting good sleep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: With us today is doctor Jade Wu. Doctor Wu is

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Speaker 2: a brilliant sleep psychologist, a Board certified behavioral sleep medicine specialist,

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Speaker 2: a sleep advisor to Mattress Firm, and I just always

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Speaker 2: find her insights fascinating when she's here on Chasing Sleep.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Also, let's welcome Richard Louve.

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Speaker 2: He has away with words and a reverence for nature.

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Speaker 2: He's a journalist and an author of several books that

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Speaker 2: have inspired people around the world to reconnect with nature.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Chasing Sleep.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: We love the title of your book, Last Child in

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Speaker 3: the Woods, Saving our children from nature deficit disorder.

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Speaker 1: Can you just explain what is nature deficit disorder.

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Speaker 5: It's not a known medical diagnosis. Maybe it should be,

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Speaker 5: but it's a way to look at the disengagement of

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Speaker 5: children and adults because children happen to grow up from

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Speaker 5: the natural world. That's happened really very quickly, particularly in

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Speaker 5: the last few decades. There's some particular reasons, and it's

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Speaker 5: not so much a measure of illness as it is

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Speaker 5: a way to talk about what happens when you take

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Speaker 5: the good stuff of nature away from kids and the

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Speaker 5: rest of us.

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Speaker 2: Is there an effect of nature deficit disorder on sleep?

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Speaker 5: Doctor Woom probably knows more about that than I do.

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Speaker 5: There's at least a couple studies that suggests that, particularly

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Speaker 5: for men at over sixty five, which would include me,

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Speaker 5: that spending more time outside helps us sleep better.

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Speaker 3: Let's throw that over to you, Jade, I mean, does

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Speaker 3: it affect good sleep?

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Speaker 1: You know? How are these two related? Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely think so. So. First of all, just

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Speaker 4: on a personal level, the time of my life when

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Speaker 4: I slept the best by far, was when I was

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Speaker 4: living in this Swiss organic farm and farming during the

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Speaker 4: day and sleeping in this cabin by night. And I

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Speaker 4: napped for about an hour every day and slept the

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Speaker 4: best sleep of my life for about eight and a

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Speaker 4: half hours at night every night. Part of it is

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Speaker 4: because I was doing hard labor during the day, and

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Speaker 4: part of it was because it was the freshest air,

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Speaker 4: it was the best sunlight during the day. The freshest

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Speaker 4: food I ever ate. Just being close to animals and

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Speaker 4: being close to plants, and just going with the rhythm

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Speaker 4: of the mountains around me. It was just magical. So absolutely,

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Speaker 4: I strongly believe there's a correlation between being close to

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Speaker 4: nature and sleeping well. And there's actually a couple of

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Speaker 4: good scientific reasons for that. One is, we are diurnal animals.

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Speaker 4: We really really need sunlight during the day and darkness

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Speaker 4: at night for our circadian rhythms to function well. So

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Speaker 4: if you get lots of sunlight during the day and

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Speaker 4: not too much light at night, then your circadian rhythms

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Speaker 4: are very happy. And when they're happy, they make you

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Speaker 4: sleep well at night and wake well during the day.

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Speaker 5: But I have to add I don't sleep well. I

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Speaker 5: need to spend more time outside. And just because you're

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Speaker 5: I live in a very natural area. There are mountain

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Speaker 5: lions in our yard. But this morning I woke up

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Speaker 5: because a woodpecker was banging outside of the house.

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Speaker 3: So in that case, nature is not necessarily helping you

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Speaker 3: sleep better when the woodpecker is pecking on the.

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Speaker 1: Side of your house.

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Speaker 2: Rich and doctor WU like, is there something about feeling

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Speaker 2: connected to nature? Feeling connected to other species, how does

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Speaker 2: that help us sleep better well?

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Speaker 4: In addition to being diurnal animals, we're also pack animals, right,

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Speaker 4: So a big part of sleeping well at night is

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Speaker 4: also just feeling connected and feeling safe during the day.

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Speaker 4: So if we have our social interactions with other people,

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Speaker 4: and if we feel connected to the people and animals

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Speaker 4: and nature around us, then we feel much more safe

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Speaker 4: and calm.

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Speaker 5: There's a great conversation going on all around us. In

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Speaker 5: recent years, the more research that's been done on how

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Speaker 5: animals and trees communicate, sometimes between each other in the

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Speaker 5: same species, sometimes across species, including with us. When we

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Speaker 5: pay attention to that, we feel less alone and we

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Speaker 5: feel calmed rich.

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Speaker 2: You suggested something called green exercise. What does that look like.

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Speaker 5: Well, some of the studies have shown that when people

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Speaker 5: do the same exercise and in fact burn exactly the

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Speaker 5: same number of calories in an indoor gym, for instance,

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Speaker 5: on a treadmill, compared when they expend or burn the

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Speaker 5: exact same number of calories they do it outside gardening

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Speaker 5: or hiking or something like that, there's a significant difference.

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Speaker 5: It's improvement in terms of well being and a number

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Speaker 5: of other indicators. So some people call it green exercise

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Speaker 5: and actually market it that way that there are green

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Speaker 5: exercise groups, particularly in Europe. It's something that I think

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Speaker 5: is caught on to a degree in the US.

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Speaker 1: Really cool.

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Speaker 4: I've heard of forest bathing, which is like a Japanese concept.

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Speaker 4: Is that similar to what you're talking about.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's a form of therapy in a sense.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask what exactly is forest bathing?

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Speaker 4: I think the Japanese name is shinin yoku. That's it,

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Speaker 4: And I think it just literally means bathing in the forest,

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Speaker 4: and it doesn't have to be very complicated. You just

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Speaker 4: go into a forest and allow the trees to surround you.

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Speaker 4: You experience the feeling of the soil under your feet

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Speaker 4: as you're walking, the breeze on your face, and you

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Speaker 4: hear the sounds of the forest. It gives us such

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Speaker 4: rich material to really experience with our five senses, and

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Speaker 4: that really slows down our heart rate. It decreases our

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Speaker 4: blood pressures, our cortisol level goes down. The whole sympathetic

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Speaker 4: nervous system, which is the fight or flight system, calms

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Speaker 4: down a little bit. It's like you're telling your body

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Speaker 4: that you're safe, that it's okay to let your guard down.

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Speaker 5: There are a couple of reasons the way that's good.

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Speaker 5: One is all the reasons that makes sleep better when

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Speaker 5: they're in nature, but also because people bring their souls

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Speaker 5: to nature in ways they don't usually. Our relationship with

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Speaker 5: trees works on two levels. One is that some of

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Speaker 5: the chemicals released by trees actually are calming to us.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 5: But the other reason is that people act different when

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Speaker 5: they're around trees, and so force bathing. You go out

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Speaker 5: there with a group and you have a therapist, you

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Speaker 5: and we were asked to go out and pick a tree,

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Speaker 5: any tree. And I know this sounds like tree hugging,

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Speaker 5: which is highly underrated. But pick a tree and spend

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Speaker 5: some time with it, and then come back to the group,

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Speaker 5: sit in a circle, and why did you learn? What

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Speaker 5: did you feel in the tree?

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Speaker 2: I want to do that immediately, Adam. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: could really help us feel connected to nature and improve

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Speaker 2: our sleep too. But for those of us who live

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Speaker 2: in places like Los Angeles, it's not that easy to

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Speaker 2: go forest bathing every day. I mean, Am I right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be ideal if you could get out

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Speaker 4: to nature every once in a while. You know, like say,

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Speaker 4: on weekends if you can go hiking. But I think

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Speaker 4: there are ways to maybe focus on the quality rather

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Speaker 4: than the quantity as well, like even if you have

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Speaker 4: a house plant, spending some time with your plants, with

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Speaker 4: the little bits of nature that you do have, and

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Speaker 4: being really mindful, being in the moment and allowing your

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Speaker 4: senses to really experience whatever little bit of nature there is.

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Speaker 4: And then maybe on a more logistical level, you know,

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Speaker 4: have black house curtains at night to keep out the

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Speaker 4: traffic lights and whatnot, and throw your windows wide open

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Speaker 4: during the day for that sunshine and fresh air. If

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Speaker 4: you can bring as much of the rhythms of nature

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Speaker 4: to your home as possible.

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Speaker 3: You know, I always wonder like, is it possible to

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Speaker 3: use technology to replace nature in our homes? You know,

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Speaker 3: like we'll do a little like bird sounds or ocean sounds.

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Speaker 3: Can we trick our body in a way into feeling

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Speaker 3: like that we're really in nature even though it's a

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Speaker 3: computer generated sound.

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Speaker 5: There is some evidence that technological substitutions can work a

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Speaker 5: little bit like watching nature videos, but there's a limit

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Speaker 5: to that. Better approach really is the town that I

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Speaker 5: live in, Julia and California is a dark sky community.

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Speaker 5: There's an organized effort around the country to commit to

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Speaker 5: certain kinds of bulbs and turning off lights at night

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Speaker 5: out side. Oh wow, my son came and visited and

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Speaker 5: looked up at the sky and said it was the

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Speaker 5: first time he could smell the stars. I mean, it

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Speaker 5: was that vivid to him. But also within cities, conservation

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Speaker 5: is no longer enough. Now we need to create nature.

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Speaker 5: As strange as that sounds, and there are a lot

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Speaker 5: of efforts around the world to change cities to have

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Speaker 5: many more trees, not only for carbon sequestration, but for

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Speaker 5: the kinds of things we're talking about, the health benefits

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Speaker 5: of that connection of nature. We can find nature in cities.

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Speaker 2: So how do we create nature inside the rooms we

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Speaker 2: sleep in.

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Speaker 5: There's something called biophilic design and biophilic architecture. It's based

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Speaker 5: on the biophilia hypothesis of EO. Wilson at Harvard, which

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Speaker 5: holds that we are hardwired genetically for an affiliation with nature,

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Speaker 5: and when we don't get enough of it, we don't

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Speaker 5: do so well. Biophilic architecture actually brings plants into the workplace.

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Speaker 5: For example, can be your home or school, as well

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Speaker 5: your plants climbing inside walls or outside walls, outside the windows.

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Speaker 5: And what the biophilic architecture is revealing in the research

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Speaker 5: is that people who work in biophilically designed workplaces are

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Speaker 5: far more productive. Sick time goes down, turnover gets better,

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Speaker 5: everything gets better.

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Speaker 1: That's fascinating, doctor Wu.

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Speaker 2: How do you bring nature into your bedrooms? You have

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Speaker 2: suggestions and advice.

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Speaker 4: Sure, so, I'm very lucky to live in a pretty

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Speaker 4: green neighborhood. We all have big trees in our yards

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Speaker 4: and whatnot, and it's pretty quiet at night, so I

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Speaker 4: open the windows and I let the night sounds and

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Speaker 4: the fresh air come in. And in fact, I personally

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Speaker 4: feel a huge difference when the windows are open versus not.

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Speaker 4: So there are seasons of the year when I sleep

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Speaker 4: worse or better depending on whether the weather allows me

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Speaker 4: to open the windows, and I make my room very

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Speaker 4: very dark, I blackout curtains. Yeah, those are sort of

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Speaker 4: my main ways of doing it. If I had more

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Speaker 4: where withal and I didn't have a one year old

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Speaker 4: and three year old, I definitely have a lot more

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Speaker 4: plans as well, But for now that's what we've got.

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Speaker 3: This is a fascinating discussion and we are not done

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Speaker 3: more to come. Welcome back to Chasing Sleep. We are

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Speaker 3: learning about nature's connection to sleep with author and journalist

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Speaker 3: Richard Louve and sleep specialist doctor Jade Wu. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about getting close to nature, but nature around

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Speaker 3: us is changing drastically with climate change. How is that

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Speaker 3: affecting the way that we sleep?

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Speaker 4: This is something that my colleagues and I in the

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Speaker 4: sleep community are very concerned about. There's the obvious one,

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Speaker 4: which is that when temperatures get hotter, it's harder to sleep.

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Speaker 4: Our bodies do need to cool down during the night

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Speaker 4: in order to sleep well, so your body temperature stays higher.

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Speaker 4: That's the obvious one. But then there are also less

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Speaker 4: obvious ones, like the stress from mass migration events and

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Speaker 4: people losing their homes to extreme weather events, and people

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Speaker 4: losing their jobs and their lives being upended from you know,

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Speaker 4: the economic and social disruptions from climate change, and of

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Speaker 4: course the nature that is destroyed and the human communities

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Speaker 4: that are destroyed by climate change just adds every layer

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Speaker 4: of stress possible to body, mind, spirit, emotional well being.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, we are actually quite concerned about climate change.

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Speaker 4: And what it will do to every aspect of health,

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Speaker 4: but sleep in particular.

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Speaker 3: Yikes, who stands to you know, have their sleep most

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Speaker 3: disrupted by climate change?

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Speaker 4: We already have plenty of studies showing that the amount

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Speaker 4: of green space in a neighborhood is directly correlated to

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Speaker 4: how many hours people sleep, Like they did studies with

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Speaker 4: satellite imagery to count up what percentage of the neighborhood

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Speaker 4: is green, and that directly relates to how many hours

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Speaker 4: people are sleeping and how often people having sleep problems.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's things like walkability of your neighborhood. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's the people who have less control over their environment.

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Speaker 4: So folks who are lower income, who are in less

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Speaker 4: affluent areas older people. Yeah, it's the people who are

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Speaker 4: least privileged who will be most affected.

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Speaker 3: Are these the things rich that bring on the solestalgia?

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Speaker 2: Did I do it?

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Speaker 4: Rich?

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Speaker 5: Solistalgia is a term that was created by an eco

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Speaker 5: philosopher in Australia and Glenn albrit And basically, when you

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Speaker 5: feel solistalgic, you are feeling a kind of intense homesickness

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Speaker 5: for the home around you. The nature is being destroyed.

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Speaker 5: It's not for the past. It's for the present that

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Speaker 5: is changing so quickly and the loss of nature. I

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Speaker 5: think a lot of us suffer from that. One of

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Speaker 5: the reasons also psychologically, and this is connected to climate

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Speaker 5: change and biodiversity collapse, which go together, is the fact

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Speaker 5: of the growing amount of eco anxiety. It's called different

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Speaker 5: things ecological depression. But it's no accident that as the

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Speaker 5: pandemic began to ease, the trailheads were packed with people.

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Speaker 6: Yes, the parks were overwhelmed, some of them by the

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Speaker 6: number of people that were Yes, finally rediscovering nature. Folks

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Speaker 6: are really worried about that, and the healthcare profession, as

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Speaker 6: Jade said, in communities that have a lot less than

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Speaker 6: nature that taking nature away from people is a life

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Speaker 6: and death issue.

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Speaker 2: And doctor Wu, do you have any thoughts on how

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Speaker 2: this sort of eco depression that is probably collectively happening,

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Speaker 2: how that's affecting our sleep, how we can try to

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Speaker 2: combat it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely related to sleep. I think often people

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Speaker 4: may not consciously realize that when they're having insomnia or

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Speaker 4: having difficulty sleeping that it's related to this. They just say, oh,

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Speaker 4: I just can't shut off my mind, or I just

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Speaker 4: can't relax. Just something's bothering me, and I can't really

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Speaker 4: put my finger on it. And I think there is

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Speaker 4: some longing for connection or simplicity or just I always

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Speaker 4: start with mindfulness of just take what you do have

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Speaker 4: in terms of nature and connect with that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, clearing the mind is.

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Speaker 2: What it's all about, all right, Adam and I want

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Speaker 2: to share a little experiment we've been conducting. We have

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Speaker 2: a new alarm clock that projects light during the day

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Speaker 2: and at night. It is dark.

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Speaker 3: Blue light, and the color of the light changes and

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Speaker 3: it kind of gives us a wouldn't you say, Katie,

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Speaker 3: It's like a sped up sunset.

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Speaker 2: What I think about it is that at least in

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Speaker 2: the midst of this Los Angeles concrete jungle that we

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Speaker 2: live in, we've been experimenting with this alarm clock and

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Speaker 2: I like it. I really do.

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Speaker 1: He love it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, there's research showing that having light in the mornings,

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Speaker 4: even when you're still sleeping your eyes are closed, about

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Speaker 4: ten percent of the light goes through your eyelids. So

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Speaker 4: if you have a light that's kind of gradually getting

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Speaker 4: brighter and brighter, some of that light is going through

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Speaker 4: to your brain. And giving it sort of a gentle

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Speaker 4: forewarning like okay, adam, it might be time to get

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Speaker 4: up soon, and you know, you get a bit of

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Speaker 4: a warning and your brain likes that, right. And also

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Speaker 4: as a night owl, the best way to shift your

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Speaker 4: circadian phase, as in, you know, make yourself more of

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Speaker 4: a morning person, is to have bright light first thing

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Speaker 4: in the morning. And so if you're starting that even

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Speaker 4: before you open your eyes, that can actually make your

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Speaker 4: sleep inertia a little bit better. And sleep inertia is

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Speaker 4: that draggy feeling that like the half hour an hour

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Speaker 4: that it takes for you to fully wake up, like

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Speaker 4: you're sledging through mud. That gets better if you have

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Speaker 4: that light wake you up.

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Speaker 1: That's great to know.

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Speaker 2: Rich thoughts about such clock, these clocks that are being

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Speaker 2: offered these days that have birds and ocean sounds and

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Speaker 2: a light that goes like a sunset at night down

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Speaker 2: to blue and can put on a sort of sunrise.

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Speaker 2: What are your opinions on such clock?

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Speaker 5: If it works, it's great, And that sounds like it

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Speaker 5: works for you. I have a woodpecker I can loan

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Speaker 5: you too for waking up, you know, during the pandemic,

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Speaker 5: And I wrote a piece for the like times about this.

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Speaker 5: People started looking out their windows when they were in seclusion,

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Speaker 5: and they were noticing that there were birds out there.

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Speaker 5: Now they knew they were out there already, but they

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Speaker 5: didn't really know. And they started connecting with those birds,

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Speaker 5: their kids did, and they did not feel so alone.

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Speaker 5: They felt a sense of solace and connection. And that

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Speaker 5: has to do with this the loneliness epidemic. The medical

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Speaker 5: community is really quite worried about loneliness as a source

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Speaker 5: of disease. It turns out many of the same diseases

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Speaker 5: that are associated with obesity and with smoking happened when

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Speaker 5: people are extremely lonely, when they're very isolated. And many

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Speaker 5: of the reasons that are given for this happen to

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Speaker 5: be exactly the same ones that keep kids indoors too much, electronics,

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Speaker 5: cities that are designed for cars, not for nature for people,

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Speaker 5: and the list goes on. I would add another factor

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Speaker 5: to that list of causes for the extreme epidemic and

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Speaker 5: human isolation all over the world, particularly in in countries

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Speaker 5: like ours, which is species loneliness. I think that deep

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Speaker 5: within this is a deep desire to not feel alone

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Speaker 5: in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Wow beautifully said in terms.

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Speaker 5: Of climate change and the eco anxiety which keeps a

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Speaker 5: lot of people away. We need something that I call

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Speaker 5: imaginative hope. I think we need to begin to imagine

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Speaker 5: what would it be like to have a nature rich

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Speaker 5: home that would help us leave better. I just wanted

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Speaker 5: to add that there's a lot of good news. In

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Speaker 5: twenty ten, I was asked to give thee to the

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Speaker 5: American Academy of Pediatrics, about five thousand pediatricians their annual meeting.

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Speaker 5: And at first I thought, why me, nature deficit disorder. Really,

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Speaker 5: it's not even a known medical diagnosis. And I was

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Speaker 5: nervous before I went up to San Francisco to give this,

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Speaker 5: and my wife, who is a nurse practitioner, took my

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Speaker 5: face in her hands. They said, listen to me, Rich,

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Speaker 5: pediatricians are different from other doctors. They're really nice people.

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Speaker 5: Oh except for doctors like Jade. And so I led

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Speaker 5: with that line and I was off to a good

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Speaker 5: start with the pediatricians. I suggested, how about if you guys,

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Speaker 5: men and women begin to prescribe nature, literally write prescriptions.

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Speaker 5: There was a little of that going on already, and

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Speaker 5: they went back, many of them and started doing that.

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Speaker 5: There's a guy named doctor Robert Tzar from Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: Who went back. He literally started writing prescriptions to his

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Speaker 5: families for spending time on the side of nature. Then

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Speaker 5: he's got the other pediatricians in DC to do it,

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Speaker 5: and then they took the next step. They created a

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Speaker 5: database of all the parks and open spaces in d C.

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Speaker 5: So the doc could not only write the prescription literally,

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Speaker 5: but could turn to the computer and say, there's a

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Speaker 5: park a block and a half from your house. Here's

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Speaker 5: what you can do there. I was puzzled by that.

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Speaker 5: Why that happened with the pediatricians, and it was later

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Speaker 5: explained to me that pediatricians are so deeply frustrated. They

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Speaker 5: see mortalities every day, morbidities every day among children that

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Speaker 5: they can't deal with. Not only that, but every day

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Speaker 5: they write prescriptions to pharmaceuticals. So they already have a

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Speaker 5: sense that somehow we're missing the boat in so many ways,

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Speaker 5: and they're frustrated, so they took to this.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing.

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Speaker 5: So there's lots of things happening.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, collectively, I think we could probably use some of

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Speaker 4: that imaginative hope to help us to sleep more peacefully.

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Speaker 4: At night.

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Speaker 1: Well, that is very hopeful.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that as a parent and as the host

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Speaker 3: of Chasing Sleep.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Wu and Rich so much.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: What a beautiful way. Let me just say to end

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Speaker 2: the season, this.

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Speaker 1: One might have caused the most changed to our lives.

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Speaker 2: I feel it if we connect with nature and we

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Speaker 2: connect with each other, we are going to sleep better.

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Speaker 1: It's that simple.

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful because I think so much of the

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Speaker 2: information in today's episode and all the episodes are really

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Speaker 2: life changing in ways that are doable.

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Speaker 1: I would agree with that.

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Speaker 3: This has been such a gift, and I want to

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Speaker 3: thank everybody that is listening for connecting with us on

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Speaker 3: season two of Chasing Sleep.

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Speaker 2: I think every episode we learn so many practical, life

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Speaker 2: changing things to better our individual lives, our family's life, and.

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Speaker 1: Our marriage and our sleep.

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Speaker 2: Like, is everyone vibing this?

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Speaker 1: Uh, We're vibing.

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Speaker 3: And if you liked this episode and you missed a

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Speaker 3: few of the others, feel free to binge listen.

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Speaker 1: We will not judge. Plus, we want to hear from you.

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00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: Yes, go to your podcast player of choice and rate

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00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 3: and review the show and tell us what you think.

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Speaker 1: Katie tell them your social.

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Speaker 2: My social is kt Q. Low's on the Gram.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm on the Gram too. I'm much shabby Shaps.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget to follow or subscribe for future episodes.

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Speaker 1: Until next time.

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Speaker 3: I hope you're living your best while sleeping your best.

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Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia

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Speaker 2: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Sosha.

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Speaker 3: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands

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Speaker 3: Dave Beeson, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice.

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Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro.

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Speaker 2: That's Us. Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm.