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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. We

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Speaker 1: are broadcasting from the Burden Real Estate Industry Executive form

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Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg World Headquarters and we are on the

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Speaker 1: floor Lisa, So we do have a wonderful view north

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Speaker 1: of Manhattan, and if we look very closely, you just

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Speaker 1: might be able to see North America's fourth largest city,

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Speaker 1: which happens to be Toronto. And we have the Mayor

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Speaker 1: of Toronto, John Tory joining us. Now. Thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for being with us, Sir, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: From here, I think you could almost see it. I

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Speaker 1: think I think it's on a clear day. Well, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that we would see if we go

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Speaker 1: to Toronto, and I want to start there is um

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Speaker 1: the diversity of the city of Toronto may not be

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Speaker 1: very well known to those outside of Canada. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you could just speak to that and how that

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Speaker 1: helps the economy of the city. Well, one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons we're here is because there's a lot of things

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Speaker 1: people don't know about Toronto. I think a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: especially even our American friends, who come to visit in

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Speaker 1: large numbers, when they get there, they say they didn't

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Speaker 1: realize it was so big, and in fact it is

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Speaker 1: bigger now than Chicago and one of the biggest cities

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Speaker 1: in North America. But what's more interesting about that population

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Speaker 1: is of it are people who were not born in

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Speaker 1: the country, and so the city and the region has

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Speaker 1: been built by immigrants, and today we still have a

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Speaker 1: very open immigration policy. It distinguishes us from lots of

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Speaker 1: countries that are looking more inward. And we've done things

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Speaker 1: to help the economy, like to create a special UH

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Speaker 1: Talent visa that says, if there's somebody really talented you

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Speaker 1: want to bring in, especially in tech, that we can

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Speaker 1: bring those people in and have that visa issued in

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Speaker 1: two weeks so that we're you know, we're really trying

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Speaker 1: to make sure those kind of smart people can be

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Speaker 1: admitted enthusiastically to Canada because we need them. Marritory that

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Speaker 1: was incredibly diplomatic, especially given the US and sort of

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Speaker 1: the uproar over immigration policy here. I'm just wondering, given

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Speaker 1: sort of the shift in immigration policy, at least on

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Speaker 1: a rhetoric level in the US, have you seen the

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Speaker 1: immigration numbers increased substantially to Toronto. Well, truthfully, the number

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Speaker 1: of people interested in coming and the number of people

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Speaker 1: coming have increased, and the number of people, for example,

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Speaker 1: like foreign students applying to our universities have have shot

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Speaker 1: up so dramatically like that since November in the last

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Speaker 1: year and a half or two years. So those are big,

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Speaker 1: big increases. Uh. You know, I can't say that we've

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Speaker 1: seen actual numbers of people who have immigrated to the

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Speaker 1: country from the US or from elsewhere, but we have

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Speaker 1: anecdotal examples to Like yesterday at we had a bunch

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Speaker 1: of tech companies here in New York and Canadian Base,

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Speaker 1: and they were talking about people who had applied for

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Speaker 1: visas here from other countries were having some difficulty and

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Speaker 1: just shifted their gaze to Canada and came to Canada

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Speaker 1: instead because it was faster, so marriatory. How concerned are

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Speaker 1: you about the high apartment prices and housing prices in Toronto.

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Speaker 1: Given this influx, is that present a headwind to growth.

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Speaker 1: We are having to tackle as all big cities are,

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Speaker 1: with the question of affordability of housing. But I can

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Speaker 1: only say to you that when you talk about high prices,

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Speaker 1: whether it's for um technology, technological talent, software engineers, AI

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Speaker 1: people and so on, whether it's for rents in apartments

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Speaker 1: or office rents, um, we are still in expensive relative

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Speaker 1: stay to New York. We were talking this morning about

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Speaker 1: office space and and we were asking somebody in some

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Speaker 1: really prime office space we were visiting how much they

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Speaker 1: were paying, and they're saying seventy seventy five dollars a

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Speaker 1: foot the same number in Toronto, and US dollars would

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Speaker 1: be forty five dollars a foot. Wages, we have a

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Speaker 1: study done to show that the wages are thirty percent

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Speaker 1: lower for the same kind of talent. That's before you

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Speaker 1: take the currency into account. So um, you know, Toronto

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Speaker 1: is an expensive city relative too much smaller cities perhaps elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: but it's not expensive relative to American cities say that

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Speaker 1: are at the peak of the tech of the technology ecosystem,

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Speaker 1: like New York City or Silicon Valley, and it's one

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Speaker 1: of the advantages we have that we can say we

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Speaker 1: have the talent and it actually is cheaper, and the

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Speaker 1: rent is cheaper, and the general cost of living, including

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Speaker 1: residential accommodation, is getting expensive and it's a challenge for

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Speaker 1: the people who live there now. But but relative to

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Speaker 1: some of these other cities were discussing, still not at

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Speaker 1: the top by any means. We've been discussing taxes in

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Speaker 1: the United States and one of the debates has to

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Speaker 1: do with the deductibility of mortgage interest. Doesn't exist in Canada. No,

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Speaker 1: we don't have mortgage interest deductibility, never have. What we

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Speaker 1: do have is a capital gains exemption on the sale

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Speaker 1: of your principal residents. So it's it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: trade off. It's kind of longer term gain for shorter

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Speaker 1: term having to pay the tax on are having to

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Speaker 1: use a non deductible funds to to fund your mortgage.

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Speaker 1: So it's one of those things where there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of trade offs. Again, I would say to you, overall,

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Speaker 1: our personal coome tax rates are a bit higher, but

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Speaker 1: they include healthcare. Our corporate tax rates are much lower,

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Speaker 1: but they include healthcare. So when we were able to

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Speaker 1: say so we're saying to Amazon, you know, when you

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Speaker 1: come here. We didn't send them a check of any

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Speaker 1: or any of our promise of a check for any

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Speaker 1: kind of an incentive to them. We did say to them, however,

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Speaker 1: you were going to save hundreds of millions of dollars

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars on your healthcare because you

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Speaker 1: don't have to pay it separately. You will pay a

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Speaker 1: lower rate of corporate income tax if you pay tax

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Speaker 1: in Canada, and you will not have to pay for

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Speaker 1: healthcare separately because it's included in UM. You know, the

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Speaker 1: tax is paid by residents. So I think these things

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Speaker 1: all kind of mix and match, But I think overall,

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Speaker 1: I'm confident in being able to say it's a a

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction where for businesses looking to invest, it's a lower

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Speaker 1: tax jurisdiction, for individuals in some cases a bit higher.

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Speaker 1: And the stuff on mortgage interest deductibility, I think trades

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Speaker 1: off when you can sell your house for capital gains

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Speaker 1: tax free, but you uh, you have to pay mortgage

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Speaker 1: interest in non deductible dollars real quick. What percent chance

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Speaker 1: do you think you have in getting the Amazon headquarters?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like asking people ask me to grade

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Speaker 1: myself in office, and I never do that. I don't

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Speaker 1: kind of cartea exactly. I would that I think we

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Speaker 1: have a formidable bid because we are talent rich, lower cost,

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Speaker 1: a very livable city. And so it's going to depend

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Speaker 1: a lot on the consideration that Amazon gives to whether

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Speaker 1: they are prepared to locate outside of the United States.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we'll see. We're not you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not popping any champagne corks yet. We're just putting

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Speaker 1: our best bid forward and we'll see what happens. Mayor

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Speaker 1: John Tory, thank you so much for joining us. Mayor

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Speaker 1: John Tory of Toronto joining us here in our Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: eleven three oh headquarters. This is Bloomberg. Well, we are

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Speaker 1: broadcasting from the Burden Real Estate Industry Executive Forum. And

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Speaker 1: one of the panelists on the panel that just can

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Speaker 1: included with Kathleen McCarthy, senior Managing Director and global Chief

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Speaker 1: Operating Officer for the Blackstone Real Estate Group, and she

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Speaker 1: joins us. Now, Kathleen, your group overseas one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eleven billion dollars of assets of real estate assets, and

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Uh, you've expanded very quickly, and with such

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Speaker 1: scale comes certain opportunities, but it also brings some challenges,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to talk about what the challenges

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Speaker 1: are that you've been facing as you've sort of expanded

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Speaker 1: this rapidly. Got it. Thank you, Lisa for having me

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Speaker 1: very excited to be here, and this was just an

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Speaker 1: amazing panel. I would say we see really just benefits

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Speaker 1: of the scale of our business and our glo global perspective.

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Speaker 1: It allows us to have proprietary access to information to

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Speaker 1: really remain I think, ahead of what other people can

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Speaker 1: see in the marketplace, and allows us to be high

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Speaker 1: conviction thematic investors globally. It's also been a great attractor

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Speaker 1: for talent everywhere in the world. Can you speak a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your recent Well you did some of

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Speaker 1: them last year and some the acquisitions, but I want

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Speaker 1: to start off with looking at this connection with e

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Speaker 1: commerce and everybody needs a warehouse in order to store

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Speaker 1: all those wonderful brown boxes. And you've made some purchases

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Speaker 1: I believe out in the West Coast in Irvine, for example.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you just tell us about that acquisition

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Speaker 1: and then what that means in terms of your strategy. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so e commerce is definitely impacting the way people shop.

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Speaker 1: And since two thousand and ten, we've been the largest

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Speaker 1: most active investor in logistic success. It's all around the world,

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Speaker 1: something like four hundred million square feet over a hundred

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Speaker 1: different transactions. This was just a very recent example. We

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Speaker 1: see robust tenant demand like we've never seen before, unprecedented

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Speaker 1: for logistics, and it's increasingly focused on that last mile

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Speaker 1: or the urban locations so that consumers can get goods

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Speaker 1: from retailers in a matter of hours, not days. I

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Speaker 1: just want to follow up, if I was to go

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Speaker 1: into one of your logistics properties, Am I going to

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Speaker 1: see more robots? Am I going to see more artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence and technology at work inside those buildings? I think

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Speaker 1: certainly the tenants and particularly the ones that have the

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Speaker 1: most capital and the most scale, like an Amazon or

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Speaker 1: in innovating and investing behind those ideas. But it really

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Speaker 1: is a combination of human capital as well as mechanical capital.

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Speaker 1: Where are you saying the biggest opportunities right now? We

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Speaker 1: know that the biggest metropolitan areas have seen the bulk

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Speaker 1: of the money kind of coming into the country from overseas.

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Speaker 1: UH do you think that it's overvalued in places like

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Speaker 1: San Francisco and New York at this point, and are

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Speaker 1: you moving to other places? Sure? So, I mentioned logistics

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Speaker 1: as one of our most our highest conviction themes. I

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Speaker 1: think also innovation cities places where young, highly educated, creative

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Speaker 1: and technology talent wants to live. So it is the

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Speaker 1: gateway markets markets like Seattle, West, Los Angeles, New York, Cambridge,

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Speaker 1: and outside of the US, places like Berlin or Stockholm,

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Speaker 1: Shortach in London, and Sydney in Asia. And we certainly,

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Speaker 1: I think, are at a more mature point in the cycle.

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Speaker 1: But we're really encouraged by the fact that fundamentals are

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Speaker 1: generally quick positive for real estate in most places. What

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Speaker 1: about rental properties. I know Blackstone was one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest acquirers of home rental UH properties, and I know

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Speaker 1: that there was some sort of right Peter Cooper Village. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was some there were some sales, And

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, are you at a sort of UH

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Speaker 1: liquidation period or do you see that as sort of

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Speaker 1: a long standing Sure. So, we are really bullished on

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Speaker 1: residential both rental housing in the form of single family

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Speaker 1: houses and rental housing and more traditional multi family and

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Speaker 1: as Pim noted, we are investors in Stytown. It applies

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Speaker 1: in New York City as well as more broadly around

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Speaker 1: the country. I think there are a lot of factors

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Speaker 1: pushing people into rental housing and maybe remaining as renters longer.

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Speaker 1: And so while you will see us sell assets, the

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Speaker 1: nature of our opportunistic capital to sell assets once our

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Speaker 1: fix it is done, we continue to have very high

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Speaker 1: conviction around residential investing. Saudi Arabia is in the news

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Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. Back in May, it was

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Speaker 1: in the news because I believe you want a commitment

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Speaker 1: from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for what a twenty

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Speaker 1: billion dollar infrastructure investment fund? Can you give us any

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Speaker 1: details about that? Sure? So Blackstone is in a very

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Speaker 1: unique position because of our scale and our depth of

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Speaker 1: experience in the markets. And Saudi Arabia did make a

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Speaker 1: decade long, significant commitment to invest with us in infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and and can you tell us and I mean when

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Speaker 1: is this going to When are we going to see

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Speaker 1: maybe some deals or some specifics. Sure, I really can't

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Speaker 1: comment on that. UM one thing that has been sort

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Speaker 1: of a trend is should retail investors be able to

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Speaker 1: go into some of these real estate investments? Um, I

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Speaker 1: know the Blackstone has been trying to open up that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: How how should that be structured given the sort of

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Speaker 1: more permanent nature of real estate purchases? Sure so? Uh,

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Speaker 1: real estate I think presents a compelling investment opportunity for

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Speaker 1: many types of investors, and I think retail investors should

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Speaker 1: have access to that as well. When we're working with

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Speaker 1: retail investors, we're trying to just provide a product that

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Speaker 1: has the same institutional quality, transparency, and fee alignment that

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Speaker 1: we provide to institutional investors. What's your take on the

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Speaker 1: mall industry right now? We note the recent proposal by

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Speaker 1: Brookfield Property to acquire g g P General Growth Partners.

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Speaker 1: I think about a fifteen billion dollar attempt. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: think malls are too cheap? I think retail is certainly

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Speaker 1: under pressure. We talked about e commerce before. That's definitely

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Speaker 1: having an impact. And I can't comment on what g

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Speaker 1: GP is doing specifically. Uh, sorry, what what Brookfields do

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Speaker 1: specifically with g GP. We have been partners with with

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Speaker 1: Brookfield in g GP. In fact, Uh, they own a

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Speaker 1: significant portion of the company. I think it'll just be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see their vision for what to do with

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Speaker 1: the company as a private enterprise. All right, well, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna leave it there. I want to thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Kathleen McCarthy is a senior

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Speaker 1: managing director and a global Chief operating Officer of the

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Speaker 1: Blackstone real Estate Group. Thank you very much for being

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Speaker 1: here and for your participation at the Burden Real Estate

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Speaker 1: Industry Executive Forum. We are broadcasting live here from Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: World Headquarters, and we are broadcasting at the Burden Seen

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Speaker 1: Real Estate Industry Executive Forum. And here with us we

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Speaker 1: have Seth Mo Laud, partner and chairman of Burden Real

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Speaker 1: Estate Services based in New York. Seth st thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. I want to talk taxes

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Speaker 1: with you. I want to talk about the GOP tax

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Speaker 1: plan and who stands to benefit and who stands to

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Speaker 1: lose in the real estate industry. UH. Com morning, Lisa.

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Speaker 1: Pleasure to be here. So uh yeah, obviously there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of UH talk out there the the UH. There's

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Speaker 1: been plans floated by both parties and the House and Senate.

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Speaker 1: The current plan as it exists would would really there's

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Speaker 1: certain key elements that are really going to hurt probably

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Speaker 1: the coastal states being New York, California, the high tax states.

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Speaker 1: The proposals include, amongst amongst other things, uh, the elimination

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Speaker 1: of the state income tax deductions, a limitation on mortgage

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Speaker 1: house uh, you know, mortgage interest, and those are really

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Speaker 1: going to affect the areas where housing costs are high

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Speaker 1: and state taxes are high. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: concern about the compression on probably the middle income and

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Speaker 1: up or middle income uh, you know population of the

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Speaker 1: coastal states. Uh. There's also a lot of proposals in

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Speaker 1: there about the tax rates themselves being reduced as well

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Speaker 1: as the you know, there's certain key things like, for example,

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Speaker 1: they're talking about limiting the the carried interest carried interest

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Speaker 1: treatment to uh where now it's capital gain. And they're

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Speaker 1: talking about making an ordinary income which is gonna dramatically

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Speaker 1: affect the real estate industry and other industries. UM. But

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Speaker 1: the current the current proposals now are really geared towards UH.

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Speaker 1: The people that are really going to feel it the

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Speaker 1: most are probably the people on the coasts and in

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Speaker 1: the high income and high tax states. New York, New Jersey, California.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about right now. Primarily, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the industry and the commercial real estate industry, because

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Speaker 1: the thirty percent UH deduction right this is the limit

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Speaker 1: the limit on interest expense deduction. You have any thoughts

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Speaker 1: on this, and do you know anything in terms of

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Speaker 1: where they're leaning in in the in the tax negotiations

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Speaker 1: right now they're talking about you talk about the mortgage

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Speaker 1: interest deduction right now that the limit right now is

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Speaker 1: on a million dollars of indebtedness and they're talking about

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Speaker 1: having that to five hundred thousand dollars of indebtedness, and

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Speaker 1: that is this kind of the sweet spot for a

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Speaker 1: lot of like I said, probably middle income and upper

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Speaker 1: middle income UH families. So that is going to have

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Speaker 1: a dramatic impact on the markets, UH the condo markets

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Speaker 1: here in New York. And when you say going to

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Speaker 1: have an effect, this means negative, negative, negative news deductions

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Speaker 1: and it's gonna make it less affordable to buy condos

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Speaker 1: and houses and other types of real estate that would

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Speaker 1: normally be more affordable. How about lower property depreciation? Okay,

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Speaker 1: moving that from what thirty nine years to twenty five

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Speaker 1: years I mean this is good. This should be good

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Speaker 1: for the commercial real estate all that that accelerates things.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of rules that are very specific to

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Speaker 1: the real estate industry now regarding depreciation where it's been accelerated. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Any acceleration and depreciation is a good thing for the

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Speaker 1: real estate industry and makes it easier to uh pencil

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Speaker 1: out deals and make sure that they're you know, the

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Speaker 1: the returns are working there properly. UH. So that that's

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Speaker 1: a good thing. Um, I don't know that that's going

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Speaker 1: to have a dramatic impact the There were regulations passed

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Speaker 1: previously whereby the deductions were much more aggressive than they

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Speaker 1: were historically. Anyway, what would you say is that to

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Speaker 1: people who say that the tax bills is currently crafted

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Speaker 1: seem to really benefit commercial real estate, both because of

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Speaker 1: the depreciation and also because there is a provision that

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Speaker 1: would allow property owners to avoid being taxed on profits

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Speaker 1: from property sales if they reinvest in other real estate,

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Speaker 1: while penalizing residential homeowners. Can you weigh in on that, well,

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Speaker 1: the I think you're referring to the like kind exchange

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Speaker 1: rules which are have been in place for many, many years,

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Speaker 1: and that fuels a lot of the activity at in

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Speaker 1: the in the commercial real estate market. So there is

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Speaker 1: some talk about repealing that. I don't know how how

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Speaker 1: much traction that really has in the market, that would

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Speaker 1: really dramatically impact the commercial real estate market in a

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Speaker 1: negative way, But they're not talking about that right now. Now, Well,

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Speaker 1: there is some talk about it. It's not actually in

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Speaker 1: the proposal right now, but there there is, there is

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Um, you know, on the on the

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Speaker 1: home market, you still have your you know, exemptions for

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Speaker 1: principal residence sales. Um, there's talk about limiting that as well,

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Speaker 1: so that would hurt um, you know, the residential markets.

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Speaker 1: But um, does that make sense to you? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if they want to get economic growth, how

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Speaker 1: does that square with the idea of more jobs, more

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Speaker 1: h aster economic growth, stronger economy. How does that reconcile?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. Uh, the the residential multi family

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Speaker 1: development is a key driver of the economies of New

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Speaker 1: York and many other major urban centers in the US,

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Speaker 1: and cretailing that through tax legislation it doesn't really make

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Speaker 1: much sense. So no, it doesn't make much sense. However,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, they need to you know, generate revenues

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Speaker 1: for other things that are that they're looking to pay for.

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Speaker 1: So something has to give. Uh. Listen, we don't feel

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Speaker 1: that that's a place where it should be, but there

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Speaker 1: they have to generate revenues in some way. Well done. Alright, well,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much for being with us. Seth Malady is

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Speaker 1: the partner and chairman of Burden Real Estate Services. UH.

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Speaker 1: We are thankful for you hosting us here at the

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Speaker 1: Burden Real Estate Industry Executive Forum. Our pleasure. Thanks pimp Elesa,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thanks very much. We are broadcasting from Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Headquarters at the Burden Real Estate Industry Executive Forum, and

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Speaker 1: we are very lucky to have with us. Norman Sterner,

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Speaker 1: founding principal and chief executive officer of MHP real Estate Services. UH. Norman,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. So when we

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Speaker 1: talk about New York City commercial real estate right now,

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Speaker 1: there are two things that come to mind. One empty

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Speaker 1: storefronts as a lot of retailers struggle. And two Hudson

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Speaker 1: Yards and what that will do to midtown rent properties.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a second. How concerned are

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Speaker 1: you about Hudson Yards the development there and how much

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Speaker 1: will lower commercial real estate values across New York. I'm

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Speaker 1: not only not concerned, I'm a fan, in a favorite

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Speaker 1: of what they're doing at Hudson Yards. Um, we have

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Speaker 1: four hundred million square feet. If we do not improve

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Speaker 1: three to four percent per year to modern, state of

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Speaker 1: the art office properties, that this city will simply dry up,

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Speaker 1: as most of the other cities have. So. But but

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Speaker 1: what happens to the rest of the existing properties that

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Speaker 1: are modern. You're you're making an assumption that the occupancy

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Speaker 1: of Hudson Yards will become only the movement from existing space.

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Speaker 1: We increase occupancy by people moving into the city. When

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Speaker 1: you look at Amazon right now, they're not moving out

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Speaker 1: of anywhere to move into eight million new feet. They're

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Speaker 1: looking for new feet. When you see companies moving from

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Speaker 1: one place to the other. UM, last month, we signed

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Speaker 1: a two hundred and seventies six thousand square foot lease

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Speaker 1: for the City of New York. Um, it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: moving out of one place to the other, but rather

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Speaker 1: they need more space. Um. We replaced six smaller, older

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Speaker 1: properties with one brand new, much more efficient property. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But it's not only Hudson Yards. It's uh, it's Brookfield,

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Speaker 1: it's related. It's um L n L. It's sl green

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Speaker 1: building one point six million square feet on Grand Central. UM.

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Speaker 1: So no, I I'm i'm I'm a proponent of taking

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Speaker 1: out some part of the old inventory and building. No.

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Speaker 1: The east side reasoning is exactly why that's being done. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Most of the smaller older buildings or fifty to a

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Speaker 1: hundred years old, UM, it's hard to convert them to

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Speaker 1: modern norfics. Most of them are being converted when they're

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Speaker 1: not being knocked down into residential or hotels. UM. No,

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Speaker 1: I I don't think it will hurt. Also, it's a

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Speaker 1: different marketplace. Hudson Yards to build today is somewhere between

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Speaker 1: a thousand and twelve hundred dollars of square foot UM.

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of competition uh to to that marketplace. UH

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Speaker 1: still in New York. So I'm a proponent. Could you

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Speaker 1: share with us just a little bit of your own history,

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Speaker 1: because I understand that you did not start in the

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Speaker 1: real estate business. You started with a seat on the

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Speaker 1: on an exchange, not the New York Stock Exchange, in

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Speaker 1: the mutual fund brokerage industry. But also you ended up

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Speaker 1: I believe, owning the building of the New York Stock

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Speaker 1: Exchange on nine eleven. So you've kind of been through

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Speaker 1: it all, haven't you. You have done your homework. I

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Speaker 1: started out as an accountant. UM. I was very young.

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Speaker 1: I got into college I was only sixteen. So became

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Speaker 1: an accountant because that was one of the things to do.

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Speaker 1: And it was by accident that we got into the

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Speaker 1: real estate business. UM. Somebody walked into our office in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy when the city was on its back and

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Speaker 1: contemplating bankruptcy, UM, and asked if we would take him

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Speaker 1: out of a contract on West fifty seventh Street. UM,

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Speaker 1: talking about thirty one apartments for seventy dollars. That's not

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Speaker 1: seventy each, that's seventy thousand dollars for thirty one apartments. UM.

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Speaker 1: So the city changed when at Saint Goodness for Mayor

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Speaker 1: Coach and big Mac. Um. But we've been in the

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Speaker 1: office building business now for forty eight years, and you're right.

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Speaker 1: On nine eleven, we owned thirty Broad Street, which was

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Speaker 1: the home of the adjunct to the new Kak Exchange. UM.

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Speaker 1: Some hard times, some difficult times, some really stupid times.

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Speaker 1: We got a call, Uh, okay, we got a call

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Speaker 1: whether if the Empire State Building fell sideways, it would

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Speaker 1: hit our property at fifty eight Streets. You know glad

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Speaker 1: it didn't happen, and we look forward to having you

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Speaker 1: back again because we want to learn much more from you.

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Speaker 1: We do appreciate your time. Norman Stirner is the president

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Speaker 1: and the chief executive of Murray Hill Property Really State Services.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, sir, and great to have you

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Speaker 1: with us. Looking forward to having you again in the future.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen

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Speaker 1: to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform

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Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo wits one. Before the podcast,

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Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.