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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Karen Dollan back with us as an author. Her book

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Speaker 2: is called The Spirits of Wuigi. Four decades of communication,

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Speaker 2: clinical psychotherapist and one of the world's leading researchers and

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Speaker 2: educators on the Wigi board, and it's roled in spirit

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Speaker 2: communication and consciousness exploration. For more than five decades, she

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Speaker 2: has investigated the Wigi board as a serious tool for

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Speaker 2: inquiry while documenting remarkable communications, independent verifications, and insights into

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Speaker 2: non physical intelligence. Her website is her name linked up

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Speaker 2: at Coast Tocoast dam dot com. Karen, how are.

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Speaker 3: You, hey, George. I'm doing great, how are you? And

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Speaker 3: it's a great to be back with you guys again.

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Speaker 2: Are you still playing with the Wuigi board? Karen?

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Speaker 3: You know, George, I don't play with the wish board.

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Speaker 2: I use it, you do, don't you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because playing brings up a whole nother It makes

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Speaker 3: it sound like it's frivolous, or using it jovalie or

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Speaker 3: making a mockery of it. Where if you use it

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Speaker 3: and work with operating it and really try to reach

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Speaker 3: into levels of consciousness. That's when you have the best

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Speaker 3: kind of responses. If you think of playing, then it

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Speaker 3: becomes a game. And you know me, the Wision Board

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Speaker 3: is not a game for me at all.

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Speaker 2: It started as a game, though, didn't it in this country?

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Speaker 3: Well, it actually is trademark and patent under games. That's

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Speaker 3: exactly how the trademark and patent went. And it's sold

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Speaker 3: in game stores as we know. And when I first

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Speaker 3: was introduced to it, my friends said, we have this

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Speaker 3: game we want to show you, and it was Luisa Board,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it was the dumbest game I've ever seen.

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Speaker 3: And look at me now, because it's what I discovered

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Speaker 3: while using this tool. I'll call it a tool or

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Speaker 3: device that's really led me on this great odyssey that

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Speaker 3: where I am today. And by the way, this month,

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Speaker 3: it's fifty three years of using this tool.

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Speaker 2: What were you ten when you started it? I was

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Speaker 2: actually eight, Coase, Karen, you look like you're thirty five

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Speaker 2: five years old.

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Speaker 3: Oh, George, I appreciate that I got started in my

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Speaker 3: last life. Probably i'd loved it.

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Speaker 2: Well, tell me what happened? What transpired when you started

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Speaker 2: dabbling with Uiji board with your friends, and you started

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Speaker 2: to use it as a tool. How did that transition occur?

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Speaker 3: You know, that didn't transition until about thirteen years later.

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Speaker 3: When I first started, I thought the Uisa board was

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Speaker 3: only used to communicate with the deceased. I had no

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Speaker 3: idea that it actually could be a tool to explore consciousness.

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Speaker 3: And that's really where I am now with it. But

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Speaker 3: it was about in nineteen eighty six, when I was

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Speaker 3: in college, when I saw this great transformation of this tool,

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Speaker 3: when I started realizing more things can be explored, such

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Speaker 3: as a validation of information. I was receiving receiving information

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Speaker 3: not just from deceased people, but starting to receive it

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Speaker 3: from other levels of intelligences. So it just became a

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Speaker 3: springboard when one thing led to the next, and I

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Speaker 3: next thing I knew, I found myself communicating with ethereal beings,

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Speaker 3: and the list goes on and and as you know

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Speaker 3: you've had me on before, I talked about animal communication

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Speaker 3: through the board as well.

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Speaker 2: Sure now, as you know my concerns about the Uigi board,

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Speaker 2: that the wrong people dabble with the wrong thing and

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Speaker 2: something strange happens, would you agree, Karen, that strange things

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Speaker 2: have happened with a WIGI board.

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Speaker 3: Oh, for sure. Everybody has stories to tell, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not here to discount anybody's stories. And I do think

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Speaker 3: it's a matter of how you view this tool. Again,

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Speaker 3: I don't call it a game. I don't play with it.

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Speaker 3: I don't use those words. I see it as a

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Speaker 3: very serious device that I can It's far reaching into

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Speaker 3: other dimensions and that's what I love about it. But

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Speaker 3: when you use it more frivolously and come at it

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Speaker 3: as a game or just an experiment joking around, you're

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Speaker 3: going to get that same level of energy that you're

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Speaker 3: putting into it, because it's all through the nature of

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Speaker 3: consciousness and basically it's how we view the world. And

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Speaker 3: so if you're trying to reach energies that are silly

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Speaker 3: and stupid, because that's the energy you're putting into it,

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Speaker 3: you will get that back. And that's when I find

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Speaker 3: people mostly tell me their stories that come from that

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Speaker 3: place of Oh, I was out of sleepover, or I

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Speaker 3: was at a party, we were drinking or imbibing in substances,

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Speaker 3: or it was just a joke we wanted to see

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Speaker 3: if we could you know, conjure up something. And that's

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Speaker 3: when I find that people have experiences that are strange

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Speaker 3: because they're not only are they using a device or tool,

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Speaker 3: they're tapping into something within themselves that brings out something

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Speaker 3: else within consciousness.

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Speaker 2: In the wrong hands. Can the board get carried away?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I think definitely. Like I mentioned,

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Speaker 3: if you're using it frivolously, you will and get that

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Speaker 3: kind of information what you put into it, and also

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Speaker 3: what you believe. This is what I always like to say,

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Speaker 3: is what you receive. So what you believe about it

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Speaker 3: is what you receive. If you put into it just silliness,

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Speaker 3: that's what you'll get back. And so my first thirteen

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Speaker 3: years of using this device, there were times when I

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Speaker 3: was silly with it because you know, I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I was just experimenting. I had nothing bad happened. But

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Speaker 3: I could see how the quality of the communications really

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Speaker 3: shifted when I took it more serious and saw it

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Speaker 3: as a way for one to heal grief, maybe somebody

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Speaker 3: lost the loved one, or to communicate with somebody one

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Speaker 3: more time that they missed so much. And when I

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Speaker 3: started looking at that way more as a maybe therapeutic tool.

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Speaker 3: Then I started to see the difference and the change

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Speaker 3: because I was shifted and changing as the operator of

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Speaker 3: the tool. I was seeing it as a far reaching tool,

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Speaker 3: almost like a great I called my great cosmic phone

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Speaker 3: tongue in cheek. It's like dialing up a number and

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Speaker 3: being able to receive the person or the being that's

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Speaker 3: on the other side of that. And so when I

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Speaker 3: took it and used it in that manner, that's when

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Speaker 3: I found everything changed for me in just remarkable ways.

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Speaker 2: Is the Wigi board Karen, a per normal tool?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 2: I mean when it first came out.

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Speaker 3: It came out, you know, after the whole Fox Sisters

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Speaker 3: movements back in the forties and then through the Spiritualist camps,

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Speaker 3: and they started using devices and things that point with

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Speaker 3: or they write numbers and letters on their cutting boards.

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Speaker 3: They were trying all kinds of contraptions to reach the decease.

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Speaker 3: It was used for the debt at that time. And

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Speaker 3: when the Uisia board came out, the business people that

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Speaker 3: put it together, they saw an opportunity really marketing and

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Speaker 3: opportunity and also a way to make money by capitalizing

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Speaker 3: upon what people were doing in let's say, for example,

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Speaker 3: Ohio and their spiritualist camps. People were into this because

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Speaker 3: it was such an easy way and a lot quicker

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Speaker 3: way to communicate with the deceased, if you will, because

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Speaker 3: that's what the spiritualists were interested in, is having those

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Speaker 3: kind of communications. So yes, it quickly got swallowed up

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Speaker 3: by those groups of people who were exploring the afterlife.

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Speaker 3: But then I found through my own reach search back

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Speaker 3: in the early nineteen hundreds, you started people started using

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Speaker 3: it for different reasons too that I stumbled upon, you know,

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Speaker 3: many years later, without even knowing about these earlier experiences.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it was used originally for the deceased and

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Speaker 3: spiritualists on that level, and then it became something else

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Speaker 3: for other people, myself included.

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Speaker 2: What would you say, Karen, is the biggest misconception people

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Speaker 2: make about the weeds you board?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the biggest misconception is the fear of

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Speaker 3: exploring consciousness. They don't realize that's something you can do

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Speaker 3: with this tool. It goes beyond just are you there?

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Speaker 2: Can you hear me?

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Speaker 3: You know who's speaking to me? Is it's a dead person.

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Speaker 3: It's so much more than that. It becomes this remarkable

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Speaker 3: way an instrument of consciousness to be able to communicate

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Speaker 3: with other dimensions. I mean it really is it like

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Speaker 3: a phone. Actually, here's the analogy I like to use

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Speaker 3: of the metaphor. Imagine you take a radio dial dial

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Speaker 3: on radio, and you tune it to hear your favorite

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Speaker 3: radio station, and each wherever you move it to on

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Speaker 3: the dial, you get a different frequency, and there you

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Speaker 3: get that communication that's being received. It's being broadcast and

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Speaker 3: received and your radios picking it up. So if you

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Speaker 3: learn to use this tool through your intentions and how

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Speaker 3: you want to approach this device, you can learn to

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Speaker 3: change yourself to dial up the frequencies of what you're

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Speaker 3: trying to communicate with. And that's something I learned. Is

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Speaker 3: started learning that in nineteen eighty nine, and from there

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Speaker 3: that's when I found how to use this board responsibly,

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Speaker 3: how to work with other intelligences that are out there,

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Speaker 3: how to use it to transform my life. And not

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Speaker 3: talking about the tools so much, but the experience of

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Speaker 3: using this tool and how I was able to use

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Speaker 3: it to develop myself.

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Speaker 4: And I know you're going to want some after hearing this.

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Speaker 4: This is an amazing story. We've got Steven and Malachi

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Speaker 4: Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand. Now I understand that Malachi,

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Speaker 4: who is eight almost nine years old now, or suffering

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Speaker 4: with not just one or two warts, but I mean

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Speaker 4: a significant outbreak of warts all over his body, so

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Speaker 4: significant it impacted his ability to really function.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil

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Speaker 5: to right. It was Tie's book actually that got me

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Speaker 5: thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 4: It is an amazing immunal modulator, and so I can

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Speaker 4: see that it would work. And so at what point

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Speaker 4: did you see that there was actually improvement it's really

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Speaker 4: going to work.

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Speaker 5: Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.

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Speaker 5: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller

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Speaker 5: and then going down to with just little red marks.

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Speaker 5: The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's

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Speaker 5: you know one the size of the wanner. I thought,

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Speaker 5: no way, that's gonna Wow. It's just been miraculous to

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Speaker 5: see him get into a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, how wonderful.

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Speaker 5: It's great to see him so happy and yeah.

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Speaker 4: Confident, absolutely wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Friends that have seen it that is blown away. Ty,

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Speaker 1: this is awesome, Yeah, this is awesome.

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Speaker 6: Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them

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Speaker 6: to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called

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Speaker 6: one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.

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Speaker 6: That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven

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Speaker 6: thirty five. Or visit carnivora dot com c A r

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Speaker 6: niv O r A carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 2: So you do admit though, that it does connect with spirits.

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Speaker 3: It can. That's only one small fraction of it. It

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Speaker 3: can connect with spirits for sure. And I've done that

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Speaker 3: many multiple times, and George, I find that very fascinating

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Speaker 3: and interesting. And most people come to me and ask me,

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Speaker 3: you know, can you talk to so and so my

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Speaker 3: dead grandmother or my dead spouse, And it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: there's so much more I can probably provide you if

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Speaker 3: you go out, if you go outside of that parameter

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Speaker 3: or out of that context, and I can usually tap

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Speaker 3: into somebody's higher self, somebody's spirit guides. They're helpers that

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Speaker 3: are in the other dimensions that might be beyond just

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Speaker 3: human spirits. So there's so much more. Again, this board,

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Speaker 3: if you use it correctly, it's yourself as the channeler

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Speaker 3: who's actually tapping into different levels of consciousness. Now, I

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Speaker 3: think before I go much further talking about consciousness, you're

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Speaker 3: going to hear me talk about this because this is

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Speaker 3: my work now, is all about this. So I want

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Speaker 3: to kind of give, if you will, a theory or

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Speaker 3: kind of a blue bootprint of what I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: when I say consciousness. If that's okay, sure, love to

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Speaker 3: hear it. Okay, great. I try to make it real

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Speaker 3: simple so I can explain it to people and also

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Speaker 3: for myself so I can understand it better as I'm

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Speaker 3: exploring these levels. So I really see consciousness as the

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Speaker 3: fundamental awareness where all living things are connected, all living

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Speaker 3: sentient beings are connected. And I don't believe our brain

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Speaker 3: or our mind creates it. It's actually it's like that

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Speaker 3: tuning of the radio I mentioned earlier. It's that our

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Speaker 3: brains receive and then interpret it as the radio receives

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Speaker 3: the signal. And so the clear the reception is within

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Speaker 3: this matrix of consciousness, the clear the communication becomes. So

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Speaker 3: I can shift myself to be clear for these communications.

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Speaker 3: Once I learned to get my ego self out of it,

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Speaker 3: drop my filters of how I see the world, which

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Speaker 3: is hard to do because I do readings all the

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Speaker 3: time and it's hard to drop our filters, but I

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Speaker 3: have to, so I have to get into a space

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Speaker 3: almost like a self monagnotic trance, where I can let

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Speaker 3: go of my beliefs, my systems was seeing in the

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Speaker 3: world and allow the information to come through. And that's

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Speaker 3: when I'm able to communicate with just various sentimpines.

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Speaker 2: And it's remarkable how it works when it does work,

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Speaker 2: doesn't it?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I'm just amazed by this tool. That's why

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Speaker 3: I continue to use it, because it's there's so much

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Speaker 3: more to explore. And as I said, I think one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest misconceptions is that it's just this device

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Speaker 3: that's like our a game, that's just to talk to

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Speaker 3: the dead, when really you can use it. As I

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Speaker 3: can teach people when they first start using this tool,

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Speaker 3: is to communicate with their highest or greatest self, which

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Speaker 3: I call the higher self. You talk to that why self,

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Speaker 3: of your of you, of who you are, and you're

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Speaker 3: not worried about going outside of yourself to go talk

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Speaker 3: to spirits, especially if you're afraid of that, because you know,

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Speaker 3: we've all been told stories and we you know it

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Speaker 3: could be cultural, it could be family, it could be

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Speaker 3: from your upbringing, religion. They tell you certain things about

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Speaker 3: this device, but the reality is if you open yourself

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Speaker 3: to just being clear, clear, to channeling, it's really no

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Speaker 3: more different than channeling. And then and we channel the time.

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Speaker 3: We can channel inspiration, we can channel creativity, we can

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Speaker 3: channel all kinds of things in our life. It's that's

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Speaker 3: what you're doing. And when you start tapping into that,

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Speaker 3: you get beyond the that what we call We justians

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Speaker 3: all all the farsities about this tool and start looking

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Speaker 3: at what you can really do. And it's not the

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Speaker 3: tool that does it. George and you and I I've

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Speaker 3: discussed this before. It's the operator of the tool who's

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Speaker 3: actually doing the channeling. The board just becomes the way

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Speaker 3: you display the information as it comes through what.

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Speaker 2: Or who is moving the plan chat that little device.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, it's a kind of a as

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Speaker 3: I've discovered over the years, it's a combination. So people

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Speaker 3: talk about the way it moves, and if they're scientific,

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Speaker 3: they'll say it's the idiomotor effect. You know, it's the muscle,

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Speaker 3: small muscle movements of your fingers controlled by your brain. Subconsciously.

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Speaker 3: I'm not opposed to that, especially when you're doing higher

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Speaker 3: self communication. That could be a part of it. What

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Speaker 3: I've learned from just talking to the spirit guides I

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Speaker 3: talked to all the time in my own work with

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Speaker 3: this from learning when I used it. Originally I thought

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Speaker 3: the plant chet moved itself. I never saw it and

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Speaker 3: move without my fingers on it. But then I realized

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Speaker 3: it was a combination of my energy, meaning the other

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Speaker 3: energies we kind of move into this space. I'll call

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Speaker 3: it the plant chet where the matchet actually polls. There's

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Speaker 3: a polling sensation. And I teach people how to use

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Speaker 3: this tool when I travel around and speak at programs

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Speaker 3: and I do workshops. I help them learn to distinguish

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Speaker 3: is such a subtle movement, but the movement is incredible.

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Speaker 3: Once you can catch that movement, then you can use

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Speaker 3: the tool by yourself too, if you choose to, or

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Speaker 3: you can go much further with this tool with a partner,

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Speaker 3: because that subtle movement is what you need to learn

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Speaker 3: to feel. And it is ever so subtle, and then

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Speaker 3: it's a polling sensation and you follow it and then

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Speaker 3: it starts moving and spelling out messages.

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Speaker 2: Has anybody ever been hurt by a Wiji board that

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Not that I've heard of, but I will tell you this,

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Speaker 3: there are stories throughout history where people blame the WISA

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Speaker 3: board for the stories they've heard, and they've killed people

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Speaker 3: because they were told to kill somebody on the Wision board.

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Speaker 3: Those are those are true stories that you can find

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Speaker 3: in different articles going way back to its conception. So

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Speaker 3: you can say on that level, it's not the Wision

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Speaker 3: board did. It's like saying, guys, like a gun killed somebody,

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Speaker 3: it's really the person using the gun that killed somebody.

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Speaker 3: It's the same thing here. The board doesn't do it.

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Speaker 3: It's the user of the board uses it as a

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Speaker 3: scapegoat so they can go ahead and do their demise.

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Speaker 2: Can it be dangerous in the wrong hands, then.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think if people look at it silly, as

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Speaker 3: we talked about earlier, I think if they want an

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Speaker 3: excuse to not take responsibility for themselves, sure, and I

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Speaker 3: think someon as people that are maybe going through hardship,

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Speaker 3: this might not be the best tool for them to use.

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Speaker 3: Because our beliefs and the way we feel in our

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Speaker 3: life at the moment will affect what you get on

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Speaker 3: the board, it will affect the messages. So if you're

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Speaker 3: really down in the dumps, that may not be the

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Speaker 3: best time to use it, because that energy is going

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Speaker 3: to be expanded upon the communications or the connections you make.

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Speaker 3: So I think there's always a responsibility to take when

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Speaker 3: you use this tool, and I teach that, I talk

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Speaker 3: about it in my books, talk about it my workshops,

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Speaker 3: and I'm talking about it again tonight with you.

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Speaker 2: Edison tried to invent the spirit phone. Is the Ouigi

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Speaker 2: board like that?

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Speaker 3: Well that was actually more with the with the white noise,

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Speaker 3: hoping that it would come through. But yeah, you can

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Speaker 3: say all this works on that level, whether it's the

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00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 3: white noise, whether it's trying to dial up that like

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Speaker 3: the spirit phone to communicate with the other dimensions. Itc

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Speaker 3: EVPs there's something happening here. And so I call myself

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Speaker 3: old school. Wija board is old school. I do use

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Speaker 3: the gadgets and technology that they have to use when

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Speaker 3: you go on a paranormal investigations, and I think it's fun.

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Speaker 3: But I'm more old school where I really want to

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Speaker 3: be the one doing the channeling. So I call myself

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Speaker 3: the walking Wisa board. Tongue in cheek because I use

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Speaker 3: myself first. I get my own baseline, I use my

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Speaker 3: own awareness and what I'm feeling because I'm very sensitive

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Speaker 3: like clairecentient and Claire audient and clairvoyant, and so I

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Speaker 3: can see and feel and hear things and send them.

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Speaker 3: So what I do is I do that first when

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Speaker 3: I do any kind of investigation, and then we may

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Speaker 3: work with some of the tools, but I prefer the

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Speaker 3: Wisire board because I'm just really good at it and

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Speaker 3: that's where I get most of my information when I do.

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Speaker 2: Who do you try to communicate with the Uiji board?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's changed over the years, and like I said,

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Speaker 3: in the beginning, it was talking to deceased people because

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Speaker 3: I thought that's what it was used for. And of course,

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Speaker 3: as I mentioned, it was, you know, grabbed up by

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Speaker 3: the specialist camps and spiritualist movement and it was used

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Speaker 3: that way. I started learning you can communicate with other

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Speaker 3: types of beings. So now when I use the board,

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Speaker 3: there's one group of beings that I talk to every

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Speaker 3: single time they come through the board, and that they

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Speaker 3: they're simply known as the guides, and the guides are

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Speaker 3: ethereal beings that have never been born in a body.

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Speaker 3: They're just an extension of source energy, which they say

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Speaker 3: we are too. We just forget how connected we are source.

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Speaker 3: We are sourcingcarnate as a spark of that all that

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Speaker 3: is where they have never forgotten that, and they are

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Speaker 3: just light, pure light. I could never see them with

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Speaker 3: the apparatus in my current eyes, but in my third

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Speaker 3: eye and in my imagination, which your other guest was

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Speaker 3: talking about, I can visualize what they look like, and

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Speaker 3: I'm pretty close to it. But that's why I talk

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Speaker 3: to every single time.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: They come through first, and then I have a whole

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Speaker 3: collective of different energies that come through, which they're part

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Speaker 3: of the collective too.

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Speaker 2: Is it easy to connect with spirit for me?

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Speaker 3: It is, I think for some people it is in

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Speaker 3: the beginning. I have a lot of people who reach

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Speaker 3: out to me and tell me why I bought a

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Speaker 3: wisure board and I've been using it for five sessions

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Speaker 3: and it doesn't work. And I say, well, it might

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Speaker 3: take longer than five sessions. In fact, it might take

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Speaker 3: months or maybe even a year. For me, it did

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Speaker 3: work right out of the box. But I know why

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Speaker 3: that is. It's because I was already able to see

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Speaker 3: and experience in here and feel beings that other people

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Speaker 3: couldn't see and feel and hear. And I've talked about

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Speaker 3: what my parents told me was my imaginary playmate, which

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Speaker 3: was not imaginary. It was a little sprite. It was

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Speaker 3: a spirit guide actually that I saw from the age

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Speaker 3: of two went on and so I had those experiences.

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Speaker 3: And so a lot of people who do reach out

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Speaker 3: to me and tell me they're empathic, or they're intuitive,

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Speaker 3: they're full of the clear senses, they have a better

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Speaker 3: chance of using this board right away and connecting to

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Speaker 3: spirit easily because they already have the ability to do that.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a technique and it's an ability that

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Speaker 3: can be learned because we all have these abilities within us.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,240
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