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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: So the rester note that was distributed to the media

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Speaker 2: did make a demand for five pm today and if

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Speaker 2: a transfer wasn't made then I think our second demand

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Speaker 2: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond

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Speaker 2: that with that, what's the rastmom note.

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Speaker 3: The media received the suggestion that time is up for

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Speaker 3: Savannah Guthries's mother, but the PERP issued another ultimatum, another

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Speaker 3: deadline coming up.

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Speaker 1: In two days.

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Speaker 3: Breaking news Savannah Guthries' mother missing day six.

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Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 3: This is Crime Stories and I want to thank you for

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Speaker 3: being with us, with me an all star panel, each

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Speaker 3: one an expert in their own right. Straight out to

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Speaker 3: Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac heart breaking

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Speaker 3: watching Cameron Guthries plea this on the heels of sister Savannah.

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Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, for those of you that

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Speaker 3: have only seen our friends, Savannah guthries agonizing plea for

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Speaker 3: her mother to be brought home, I want you to

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Speaker 3: hear Cameron Guthrie's plea for his mother to be brought home.

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Speaker 4: Listen, this is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family.

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Speaker 4: Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to

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Speaker 4: hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need

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Speaker 4: you to reach out and we need a way to

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Speaker 4: communicate with you so we can move forward. But first

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Speaker 4: we have to know that you have our mom. We

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Speaker 4: want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact.

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Speaker 3: Are they going to have to go old school to

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Speaker 3: find Nancy Guthrie? I'm talking about dogs, drones looking at

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Speaker 3: the area.

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Speaker 1: How far could she have gotten?

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Speaker 3: Are there two or more people involved this? As many

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Speaker 3: speculate the purp is within or close to the family.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to tell you.

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Speaker 3: Let me go straight out to you, Dave Mac. I

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Speaker 3: find it very very hard to believe. Let's see a

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Speaker 3: shot of Savannah with sister Annie and brother Cameron as

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Speaker 3: they were making that plea. I find it very difficult

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Speaker 3: to believe, Dave Mack, that the brother and the sister

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Speaker 3: and Savannah could sit there begging for the return of

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Speaker 3: their mother while secretly wondering heys cousin Larry part of this,

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Speaker 3: I mean knowing something of that import I don't see it,

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Speaker 3: Dave Mac. I mean I know what the statistics say,

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Speaker 3: I know the statistics say look to those closest to

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Speaker 3: the victim.

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Speaker 1: But just looking at the.

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Speaker 3: Three siblings, I don't see it, Dave mac or maybe

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Speaker 3: is that I don't want to see it, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: It looks to me like they don't consider it somebody

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Speaker 5: that's very close to them.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, in.

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Speaker 5: All probability, the person or persons involved in this had

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Speaker 5: access to that house before. Now that leaves you with gardeners,

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Speaker 5: people that come by to help out with things around

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Speaker 5: the house. There are a lot of people that had

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Speaker 5: access to that house, and they would have been familiar

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Speaker 5: with camera placement and things like that that you've mentioned

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Speaker 5: before about the granny cams. So there are a lot

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Speaker 5: of people beyond that close family friend group that would

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Speaker 5: have had access to that house. And maybe that's why

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Speaker 5: you're seeing they just look devastated. To me, the whole

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Speaker 5: family does. And all the communication is one way. It's

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Speaker 5: coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way

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Speaker 5: of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point. They've

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Speaker 5: been given no communication, way of reaching out. That's why

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Speaker 5: Cameron said, we need to know you've got or we

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Speaker 5: need pay and we need you to reach out to

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Speaker 5: us to tell us how to get up with you.

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Speaker 5: They don't know who it is, but it could be

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Speaker 5: somebody They've seen a lot, you know, Dave.

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Speaker 3: Matt, You're right again, a lot of speculation swirling about

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Speaker 3: a family member somehow being involved. But when I look

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Speaker 3: at those three, I just don't see it, or maybe

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Speaker 3: I'm blind, but I'm rejecting that this as the theory

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Speaker 3: has swirled of a really sinister plot to go into

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Speaker 3: the home and remove the door.

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Speaker 1: Cam, the front door cam.

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Speaker 3: Let's see a shot of where the door cam would

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Speaker 3: have been like, coming in, for instance, through the back door,

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Speaker 3: coming through, reaching out the front door, and yanking that

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Speaker 3: off so you the perp are not pictured on the

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Speaker 3: door cam, and then waiting because if you look at

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Speaker 3: the timeline, now, let's see the timeline. Please, If you

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Speaker 3: look at the timeline, there's.

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Speaker 1: About a twenty minute gap.

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Speaker 3: You've got her coming home from dinner in Majong with

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Speaker 3: Annie and the son in law.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Then the garage door closes and we assume she's entering

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Speaker 3: through the CA kitchen door from her garage. Then look

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Speaker 3: at it. The door cam disconnects on the front door.

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Speaker 3: Then you've got about twenty minutes. Did they yank off

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Speaker 3: the door cam and wait to see if police would arrive? Now,

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Speaker 3: Dave Matt creat me if I'm wrong, please, because these

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Speaker 3: times are critical. Wasn't there a spike, a noticeable spike

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Speaker 3: in her pacemaker, her heart monitor at two a m.

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Speaker 6: There was?

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Speaker 5: There was a noticeable spike at two am. So you're

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Speaker 5: talking about thirteen minutes after the camera is pulled down,

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Speaker 5: and that thirteen minute window, you know, the first thing

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Speaker 5: that happens when they're checking on somebody is the phone.

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Speaker 1: Call are you okay?

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Speaker 5: That's usually what happens with home security systems, and then

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Speaker 5: if nothing there, then the police at two o'clock. We

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Speaker 5: I believe anyway, that that's when the kidnapper or kidnappers

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Speaker 5: were actually in her room and putting hands on her,

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Speaker 5: getting her up out of bed.

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Speaker 3: Straight up to Chris McDonough, our long time friend and colleague.

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Speaker 3: He is the director at the Cold Case Foundation, former

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Speaker 3: homicide detective with over three hundred bona fide homicides under

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Speaker 3: his belt, also host of the YouTube.

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Speaker 1: Channel of the Interview Room where I found him.

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Speaker 3: Chris, thank you for being with us regarding this whole

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Speaker 3: theory that the family is.

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Speaker 1: Involved in some way, which I reject. I'm putting it

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Speaker 1: out there.

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Speaker 3: You and I have talked privately about you Fed.

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Speaker 1: You Fed.

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Speaker 3: It's a Celebrate system. It's mobile and it's carried in

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Speaker 3: a box. Usually it looks like a you know, a

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Speaker 3: messenger boy bag or a briefcase that you wear over

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Speaker 3: your shoulder that was seen being carried out of the

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Speaker 3: family home. Explain what the Celebrate you Fed does in

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Speaker 3: a nutshell?

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Speaker 1: Do go deathcom for on me?

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Speaker 6: So?

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Speaker 7: Well, there's a couple of things that it does. It's

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Speaker 7: a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene,

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Speaker 7: in this case, the house, and then you're able to

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Speaker 7: download any type of forensic evidence in the house from

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Speaker 7: devices such as you know, computers or you know, phone,

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Speaker 7: cell phones, et cetera. And then that information is immediately

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Speaker 7: available through some software that Celebrate has to the investigators

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Speaker 7: on the scene.

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Speaker 3: It can get deleted texts, emails, ims, it can get

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Speaker 3: encrypted and it really came to the forefront of our

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Speaker 3: national knowledge, our bubble of knowledge during the Alex Murdock

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Speaker 3: trial when a secret Service witness took the stand to

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Speaker 3: explain how it was used in that case and it

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Speaker 3: worked this is what I'm that witness that observed the

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Speaker 3: agent coming out with the youth head.

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Speaker 1: It was like, you know, pouring gas on a flame.

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Speaker 3: They suggest that the families involved Number one, the families

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Speaker 3: always scrutinized first statistically they are involved. I do not

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Speaker 3: believe at this juncture that that is the case.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 3: I want to defend them so that is not out

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Speaker 3: of the ordinary. This is what I think they should do,

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Speaker 3: Chris mcdonna. Everybody, take a polygraph. Everybody, everybody in the family,

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Speaker 3: all the granny, nannies, everyone that worked with her in

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Speaker 3: her yard, in her driveway, the handyman, the instacart person,

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Speaker 3: the pizza guy, all of them, even the Sunday school teacher. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I said it, submit to a polygraph. What do you

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Speaker 3: think about that, Chris mcdonna, And then anybody that says hgb.

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Speaker 1: L No, they're at the top of my suspects.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think almost immediately that's not a bad idea.

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Speaker 6: I think that could be a path.

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Speaker 7: But you can take Savannah and the brother off of

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Speaker 7: that list right away. What the anomaly is in that

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Speaker 7: you fed problem here is who brought it to the scene,

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Speaker 7: and that was the IKAC team Internet crimes against children,

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Speaker 7: So this could be a whole other lane that's not

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Speaker 7: even being looked at here. That is kind of a

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Speaker 7: one off from the actual abduction of Missus Guthrie.

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Speaker 3: Okay, put him up. Are you saying that now we're

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Speaker 3: investigating a crime on a child? Are you actually saying that.

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Speaker 7: I'm saying that. Well, I'm saying that's possible. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 7: it's possible.

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Speaker 3: Okay, No, No, they had the celebrates, so they brought

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Speaker 3: it over.

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Speaker 1: Now, if I'm asking you.

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Speaker 3: To bring ever some case files, do you put on

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Speaker 3: a crime Stories T shirt? No, you come in what

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Speaker 3: you're wearing. K No, I don't think you know what.

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Speaker 3: Take him away. I'm gonna let you sit there and

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Speaker 3: think about what you just said.

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Speaker 1: What But but I'll.

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Speaker 6: Tell you here's the deal.

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Speaker 7: When you have a major case like this, and I've

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Speaker 7: worked many of them, and you run across something, you go,

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Speaker 7: what is this? Okay, you don't have the eyekac people

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Speaker 7: show up with their you fed.

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Speaker 6: That just doesn't happen.

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Speaker 7: That is a secondary problem that they potentially could have

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Speaker 7: run into. It may not be involved with Missus Guthrie

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Speaker 7: in any way, shape or form. However, these guys did

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Speaker 7: show up, and they don't show up to search for

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Speaker 7: missing eighty four year old women.

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Speaker 6: That's my point.

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Speaker 3: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, who are we looking at?

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Speaker 1: Number one? I'm calling for polygraphs.

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Speaker 3: Savannah Guthrie knows exactly what's going on right now. Savannah

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Speaker 3: is not only a sweet, loving, sincere person. I know

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Speaker 3: because I worked with her. I've seen her under all

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Speaker 3: sorts of stressful conditions, nothing like this, of course, but

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Speaker 3: she knows the law people like the back of her hand,

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Speaker 3: and I guarantee you she'd be the first one to

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Speaker 3: get in line for the polly to make everybody else

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 1: So what do we do now?

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Speaker 3: Todd Shipley is with US digital cybercrime expert, former Detective

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Speaker 3: Sergeant Reno twenty five years in law enforcement, author of

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Speaker 3: Surviving a cyber attack, author of investigating Internet crimes.

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Speaker 1: This is your Billywick, the whole you fed celebrate. What

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Speaker 1: do you think is going on? To me?

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Speaker 3: It's so pay standard operating procedure. Instead of parting all

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Speaker 3: the family's laptops, their desktops, their phones, everything out, they

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Speaker 3: just did e fat That's what I think happened.

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Speaker 1: Todd Well, I don't.

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Speaker 8: Think you're incorrect, Nancy. I think what happened is who's

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Speaker 8: available at the time. So you've got a major crime

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Speaker 8: and somebody could have been on vacation or something like that,

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Speaker 8: and they said, who's got access to and who's trained

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Speaker 8: to use the tool, and so the guys go, we're here,

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Speaker 8: we can show up. What I think happened, though, is

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Speaker 8: the reason they focus on the family, if they did

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Speaker 8: at that time, was keep in mind things like ring

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Speaker 8: cameras and those other cameras can share the videos to

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Speaker 8: other people, and so they may have been trying to

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Speaker 8: find other evidence on those phones from the family's phones

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Speaker 8: that was shared by the ring camera at the house.

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Speaker 8: So there's a lot of other things that explain why

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Speaker 8: this occurred. It wasn't that there was some of the

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Speaker 8: crime occurring. The family may have had evidence that they

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Speaker 8: wanted to look at the Uber receipts, all the other

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Speaker 8: things that were going on. They're trying to build a

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Speaker 8: background around what happened. And it's on phones. Because we've

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Speaker 8: talked about this many times about how the phones have

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Speaker 8: everything about our lives, and it's going to describe the

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Speaker 8: mother too.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you listed and I've really liked this idea, todd

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Speaker 3: Shipley other things.

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Speaker 1: When I think of the you FED celebrate, I think

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Speaker 1: a cell phone. I think of an iPad, a desktop,

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Speaker 1: a laptop.

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Speaker 3: You're saying there are other devices and well that can

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Speaker 3: be factored into the u FED, not just those devices

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Speaker 3: such as what So.

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Speaker 8: What we're talking about is the apps on the phone,

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Speaker 8: because you can share those apps with other people, and

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Speaker 8: so I can share my ring camera app with family, friends,

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Speaker 8: whoever I want to share it with, and that may

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Speaker 8: have been on the phone, and that's what they're looking for.

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Speaker 8: They're looking for the Uber connections. They're looking for all

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Speaker 8: the apps that were used to build a background about

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Speaker 8: what the mother did beforehand.

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Speaker 3: But how I would looking at their devices and their

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Speaker 3: laptops and so forth help them establish what Nancy Guthrie did.

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Speaker 8: Because you can share everything you do uber. You do

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Speaker 8: an Uber, I can share it with a family or

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Speaker 8: friend that I did it. I can share the camera

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Speaker 8: itself and let other people see what's happening at my house,

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Speaker 8: so I can get the notifications and get information, and

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Speaker 8: that may have been what's on their phones. It's not

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Speaker 8: something nefarious. It's just that all these things can be

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Speaker 8: shared between phones now, and they could have had the

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Speaker 8: images or some other things, maybe even the pacemaker. I

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Speaker 8: don't know how the pacemaker, this particular one work, but

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Speaker 8: it could have been shared across other devices so that

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Speaker 8: people knew.

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Speaker 6: She was in trouble.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I've got an example to boil down what you

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Speaker 3: just said, and I found like parables that this made

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Speaker 3: more sense to jury's Okay, we have granny cams at

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Speaker 3: our home because my mother, my ninety four year old mother,

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Speaker 3: lives with us. My husband has the app. I have

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Speaker 3: the app, our children have the app. So you're saying that,

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Speaker 3: for instance, if the fans came and did celebrate on me,

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Speaker 3: they could get anything I shared with my children, such

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Speaker 3: as Life three point sixty bar exactly, they're on my Uber.

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Speaker 1: Eats they're on my Uber. Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 6: Exactly?

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Speaker 8: And Lie three sixty, you know, is a great example

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Speaker 8: of one of those things that are shared commonly. Amunk'st

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Speaker 8: family to track and identify where people are at, especially

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Speaker 8: a vulnerable senior. That's an important thing to understand where

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Speaker 8: they're at, and so the family wants it to know.

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Speaker 8: So their apps are going to be tracking what's going.

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Speaker 1: On with my Okay, what if they had a family

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Speaker 1: phone plan? Do you know about those?

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Speaker 3: How a group of people okay, explain that would that

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Speaker 3: be included?

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Speaker 8: Well it could potentially. It just depends on this settings

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Speaker 8: that you as the user set up or the owner

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Speaker 8: of that family plan. Now, some of those things those

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Speaker 8: family plans, you know, share the text message and share

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Speaker 8: all those things, and you can, as the owner of

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Speaker 8: the plan, can go in and see activity certain activities

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Speaker 8: depending on what's happening. So those are other technologies that

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Speaker 8: you know, law enforcement is going to be looking at

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Speaker 8: to see the behavior before and after the incident.

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Speaker 3: So bottom line, Todd Shipley, if they could you fed

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Speaker 3: and I'm using that as a verb, celebrate the family's information,

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Speaker 3: they could then at the same time captured any shared

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Speaker 3: apps that were shared with Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 8: Correct, correct, exactly. That's that's why the celebrate was there.

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Speaker 8: They're looking at.

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Speaker 1: Every phone, got it?

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Speaker 3: And just an example, Todd Shipley, of how important that is.

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Speaker 1: The Brian Coberger, Idaho case.

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Speaker 3: We know that there was a delivery I think it

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Speaker 3: was a door dash around four am, three thirty am,

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Speaker 3: four am, because we saw it on one of the

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Speaker 3: victim's phones. That's how important this is. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 3: how to go old school to find Nancy Guthrie, starting

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Speaker 3: with lpr's license plate readers, redlight cams. Yes, Jeffrey Gentry

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Speaker 3: joining US Forensic Certified Bloodstained Pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene Analyst,

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Speaker 3: death Investigator, author of blood stained pattern Analysis for author

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Speaker 3: of forensic science applications to death and crime scene author

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Speaker 3: of death investigations, information to obtain during a forensic death investigation.

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Speaker 1: It goes on and on. Let's talk old school.

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Speaker 3: We've heard over and over from mainstream that nobody's door

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Speaker 3: cam could likely catch anything because it's the houses in

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Speaker 3: that neighborhood are set far off the street, and there

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Speaker 3: is a lot of foliage, trees, you name it.

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Speaker 1: That's why people want to live there. You have a

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Speaker 1: seclude Look at all the can I see.

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Speaker 3: That aeril again, Look at all the trees, the foliage

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Speaker 3: around each home.

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Speaker 1: I see what they're saying.

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Speaker 3: But those streets, jeff Gentry, have to have to pour

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Speaker 3: out somewhere, like the stream to the river, like the

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Speaker 3: river to the sea. There's an outlet somewhere, and at

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Speaker 3: that outlet.

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you there's a red light, bam, what about it?

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Speaker 9: I completely agree at this point, six days into this investigation,

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Speaker 9: if you do not have a suspect, and you do

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Speaker 9: not have a solid lead, you can't just sit around

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Speaker 9: and wait. I know, we have tons of people working

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Speaker 9: on this. You actually have to go out, Like you

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Speaker 9: said yet old school. You have to rely on traditional

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Speaker 9: police work and you have to rely on science to

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Speaker 9: solve this crime. This is not your typical criminal. It's

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Speaker 9: not somebody that has made huge mistakes. They probably didn't

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Speaker 9: have their cell phone with them where they're going to

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Speaker 9: get self powered pings. They're not making major mistakes like

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Speaker 9: you see in a lot of crimes of passion. This

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Speaker 9: is obviously planned out. This is not your typical crime.

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Speaker 9: But you see that they did make mistakes. They took

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Speaker 9: things from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes

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Speaker 9: by leaving bloodstains behind. So when you're talking about forensics

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Speaker 9: and science, you think about every single contact leaves a trace.

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Speaker 9: That's one of the foundations of forensic science. Every single

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Speaker 9: contact leaves a trace. So when this person was preparing

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Speaker 9: for this crime, they left forensic evidence. When this person

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Speaker 9: was traveling to the scene, they left forensic evidence. When

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Speaker 9: they broke into the home, and we're talking about forced entry.

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Speaker 9: A lot of people don't know what forced entry means.

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Speaker 9: It means like a door was either pride open, a

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Speaker 9: window was broken, somebody used some kind of a mech

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Speaker 9: to unlock a door. So that's what forced entry means.

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Speaker 9: So they're leaving behind evidence. Looking at the front door,

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Speaker 9: I don't see any fingerprint dust. So what I would

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Speaker 9: do in this case is I would scrap everything, start

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Speaker 9: from scratch, recreate this whole event. Try to think about

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Speaker 9: how this criminal got in the home. Walk their path,

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Speaker 9: how did they interact with the victim? Walk their path?

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Speaker 9: Did they sit down somewhere, did they touch things, did

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Speaker 9: they wash their hands? Did they eat something out of

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Speaker 9: the refrigerator. All of these contacts inside the home and

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Speaker 9: with the victim can leave trace evidence. They could leave bibers,

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Speaker 9: It could leave fingerprints, it could leave DNA. You can't

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Speaker 9: rule anything out in this case. Even if they've released

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Speaker 9: the scene, they can still go back in and use

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Speaker 9: blood enhancing chemicals like blue Star in the dark to

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Speaker 9: see if blood stains that may have been wiped up,

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Speaker 9: or maybe small blood stains that got disturbed during these contacts,

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Speaker 9: you have to think like a criminal in these cases,

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Speaker 9: how did this person get in? How did they exit

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Speaker 9: the door cam? Most of these door cams you can't

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Speaker 9: just pull them off. They require some kind of special

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Speaker 9: tool to get them off. So was there some kind

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Speaker 9: of a scratch or did they leave a fingerprint behind

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Speaker 9: when they were reaching through the door to remove this

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Speaker 9: camera so it wouldn't see when they're walking her out.

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Speaker 9: Like we mentioned before, there doesn't really appear to be

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Speaker 9: a struggle at that front door. We know that she

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Speaker 9: was bleeding, we know she's standing there for some period

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Speaker 9: of time. We believe that she was upright and walked

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Speaker 9: away because the nature of the bloodstains. But why didn't

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Speaker 9: she follow the ground? But what was the reason that

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Speaker 9: she left that home without being dragged away or carried away?

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Speaker 9: There's no evidence that she was murdered in the home

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Speaker 9: to so why did she leave? You have to think

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Speaker 9: about all these things. You can't rely on assumption at

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Speaker 9: this point. You have to recreate everything and figure out

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Speaker 9: where this person messed up, because this criminal did mess

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Speaker 9: up somewhere and they will be caught.

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Speaker 3: One thing I've been wondering, and I'm projecting it's really

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Speaker 3: hard to pick up my mother, who's very light, she's

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Speaker 3: ninety four, and move her anywhere without her walker very hard.

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Speaker 3: Now Nancy uses a cane. Is her cane missing? Did

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Speaker 3: she have a walker that she used at home? Is

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Speaker 3: it missing? Did they take that? If they didn't, I'm

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Speaker 3: wondering if there had to be two.

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Speaker 1: People to help her walk. Jeffrey, that's very possible.

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Speaker 9: I think about my own mom when we're looking at

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Speaker 9: this case. Because she's kind of built the same way.

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Speaker 9: She has thin skin. She would leave easily. And anytime

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Speaker 9: that my mom has ever been in like physical distress

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Speaker 9: or needed help or you know, when she had a

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Speaker 9: knee surgery, I had to help her throughout the house.

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Speaker 9: It's not easy. Even if somebody is not a very

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Speaker 9: big person walking them throughout the house. They're gonna be

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Speaker 9: touching different things. They might fall down, so it's not

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Speaker 9: an easy thing to do. And if you're trying to

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Speaker 9: remove can, if you're trying to get out to a

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Speaker 9: car quickly to leave the scene, they're going to be

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Speaker 9: touching things. There's going to be things disturbed. I want

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Speaker 9: to know more about what's inside the house. I would

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Speaker 9: love to know that and I would love to see

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Speaker 9: the scene. I would love to see the area. I

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Speaker 9: would love to walk around door to door ask neighbors again.

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Speaker 6: What did you see?

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Speaker 9: Every little piece of information is going to be critical

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Speaker 9: at this.

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Speaker 3: Point crime stories with Nancy Gray, police bringing out devices,

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Speaker 3: bringing out evidence, They're swarming it still. This is from

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Speaker 3: our friends at KOLD. The search was called off for

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Speaker 3: a period of.

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Speaker 1: Time, then it resumed.

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Speaker 3: Much has been made about law enforcement releasing the crime

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Speaker 3: scene and then having to come back to the crime scene.

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Speaker 3: Does anybody on this panel disagree they released it prematurely.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what they were thinking when they did that.

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Speaker 9: That was a you have everything that you need. It's

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Speaker 9: not uncommon to release the crime scene, and it's not

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Speaker 9: uncommon to go back to a crime scene after it's

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Speaker 9: been released, after you bounce ideas off each other. For example,

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Speaker 9: I think that they should probably go back in there

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Speaker 9: again and open up dreams, take every single place.

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Speaker 3: As I have said many times, they released a crime

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Speaker 3: scene and everybody and a little sister could go over

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Speaker 3: there and poke around those photos of the blood that

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Speaker 3: was taken by media.

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Speaker 1: That's not right.

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Speaker 3: No, they should not have released that crime scene because

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Speaker 3: now it's been totally compromised. You ever try to try

440
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 3: a case when the scene's being compromised, it's hell, it's

441
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: like the golden lottery ticket for the defense to claim, Oh,

442
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: that wasn't there before it was planted, and so forth

443
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: and so on.

444
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: Can we get back to the ransom notes?

445
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: We all know by now, all you legal eagles know

446
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: that a fake ransom note was delivered by text to

447
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: Savannah and I think her brother and or her brother

448
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: and sister. That perp has been found, he's been arrested,

449
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: and he's going to be prosecuted under federal law. And

450
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 3: the theory is he used interstate commerce.

451
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

452
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: Anything that crosses state lines has been deemed by our

453
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: Supreme Court to be use of interstate commerce. Either you're

454
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: driving across state lines, that's interstate.

455
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: And you're using a vehicle and you bought gas, Hey,

456
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: that's commerce. You may be using the phone, you pay

457
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: a phone bill, that's commerce.

458
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 3: You may text, you may send a telegraph a telegraph,

459
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if you're communication across the state lines

460
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 3: or any way controlled by the federal government. You have

461
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 3: used interstate commerce. Bam, Does that make sense to everybody. No,

462
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: it doesn't, but it makes sense to the US Supreme Court.

463
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 3: So when this guy sent a text across US airwaves

464
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of

465
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 3: the law that's interstate commerce, he has already.

466
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: Been booked and he is in jail.

467
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: We have also learned Dave Mack that law enforcement has

468
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: said all the fake ransoms are bogging down the investigation.

469
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: There's that many, you know, Nancy, this is one of

470
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 5: those situations where the media interest because people are so

471
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 5: fascinated by this, mainly because of Savannah Guthrie, but also

472
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 5: the fact that there's an eighty four year old woman

473
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 5: missing and it's got people going crazy. So yeah, the

474
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 5: fact that we know there are ransom notes. You know,

475
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 5: we've had plenty of missing people cases that we've covered

476
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 5: that didn't have ransom notes, but here we have them.

477
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: So all the crazies have come.

478
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 5: Out of the woodwork and they're flooding. All the investigators

479
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 5: have to take everything seriously. As they said from the

480
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 5: very beginning, you know, before they even verified the first

481
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 5: ransom notes we heard about, they were like, we are

482
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 5: taking every tip, every call seriously.

483
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: They have to.

484
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 5: It's an investigation, and that's what they've been doing. That's

485
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 5: how they were able to get the guy arrested in

486
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 5: California so quickly. They've already got him admitting that he

487
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 5: sent the fake or that he sent the fake messages.

488
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 5: You know, they had him tied down in a matter

489
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 5: of twenty four hours, Nancy. So yeah, they're spending a

490
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 5: lot of time on everything that comes into them, including

491
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 5: fake ransom notes, trying to take advantage of a bitcoin billionaire.

492
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: You know, you know, I'm thinking about technology, about going

493
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 3: old school to solve this case. When we say old school,

494
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 3: Todd Shipley, you were reeling off a lot of must dos.

495
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: What are they? What must be happening right now?

496
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 8: Well, from a technology point of view, what the law

497
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 8: enforcements looking at is anything they can find where there's

498
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 8: a record. They're looking at the tower records for all

499
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 8: the cell phones in that area. Keep in mind, there's

500
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 8: always going to be a lot of records, but this

501
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 8: is the middle of the night, so they'll be less.

502
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 6: They're good.

503
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 8: Look at all the flock cameras and any cameras that

504
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 8: are reading license plates in and around the area and

505
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 8: throughout Tucson, because they're trying to find any suspect that's

506
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 8: moving at that time of night, and so that's going

507
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 8: to limit the amount of people moving around. So I

508
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 8: know they've already looked at all the ring cameras in

509
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 8: the neighborhood. They're looking at all the records that they

510
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 8: could find. Technology wise, they've gone through her phone trying

511
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 8: to figure out other things that she's done that could

512
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 8: lead up to a precipit something. Keep in mind, we

513
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 8: don't know the contact she's had with other people. One

514
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 8: of the things I talk about all the time with

515
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 8: seniors and vulnerable people is that if you're not paying attention,

516
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 8: they could get sucked into some kind of scam and

517
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 8: you don't know it. So they're looking at her phone

518
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 8: to find out if she was texting, communicating with on

519
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 8: WhatsApp with somebody talking about bitcoin or something else, and

520
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 8: becoming more conversion with the kinds of contacts she had

521
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 8: towards the end there. So there's a huge amount of

522
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 8: valuable data they're going to get from the technology.

523
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: What about it, Jeffrey Gentry.

524
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 9: I'm curious about the motive. Is it really financial at

525
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 9: this point? Because you have a person that has obviously

526
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 9: put out there that they want money for this crime,

527
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 9: but they haven't been in contact with the family since

528
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 9: they haven't been in contact with law enforcement, So I

529
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 9: think you have to kind of start thinking about doing

530
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 9: some profiling in this case, trying to figure out who

531
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 9: this suspect is, what actually is their intended motive, and

532
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 9: why haven't you heard from them?

533
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 6: Why why aren't they reaching out?

534
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 3: Well, I think the motive is clear. Have I missed

535
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 3: something They said, give me millions in bitcoin quote or else.

536
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: I think that's the motive which leads.

537
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: Me to has anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family

538
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: up for money? Is somebody in need financial need that

539
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 3: they know of.

540
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: I would be.

541
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: Looking at every single person and their husbands and sons

542
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,239
Speaker 3: that need money, anybody.

543
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: With a record.

544
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 3: They've already been looking at sex predators in the area.

545
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: But it's not about a sex predator. I'm telling you

546
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 3: that right now. Agree or disagree, Chris mcdonna.

547
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wouldn't take anything off the table though, because

548
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 7: she's such a low risk victim. Here there is an

549
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 7: association between the victim and this offender. And to your point, Nancy,

550
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 7: somewhere in this circle of influence and you always do.

551
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 7: Start with the family, of course, and your work, your

552
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 7: way out. This offender is familiar because if you look

553
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 7: at the victimology of this particular woman here, you know

554
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 7: the offender risk of just arbitrarily showing up at you know,

555
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 7: two o'clock in the morning, ripping a doorbell off, breaking

556
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 7: into a house, you know, taking an eighty four year

557
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 7: old woman out of that house, and then saying, oh,

558
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 7: by the way, I need bitcoin between two or four

559
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 7: million dollars. That tells us a whole bunch about the

560
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 7: unsophistication of this particular perpetrator. So that means at some

561
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 7: point they have cross paths. And if you look at

562
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 7: this picture here with her sitting on that chair, look

563
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 7: at her left hand. That to me, when I first

564
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 7: saw that photograph, I thought, okay, did she fall going

565
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 7: outside onto that porch, Because when you look at the

566
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 7: blood evidence there, there's also a piece of the debris

567
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 7: over on top of the blood, and those are ninety

568
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 7: degree droplets, which the other guests I'm sure would agree with.

569
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 7: If you look at the upper left hand quadrant, there

570
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 7: is a debris on top of that blood. So I

571
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 7: went back and looked at the news reports where they

572
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 7: showed the evidence technician photographing that, and so does that

573
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 7: tell us that the suspect was behind her and had

574
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 7: kicked that debris on top of that blood, and had

575
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 7: she fallen and was trying to get back up which

576
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 7: would create those ninety degree blood droplets there. So I

577
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 7: think there's a possibility that you do have to go

578
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 7: old school. The technology is going to be a bonus.

579
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 7: But somebody knew who Miss Guthrie was.

580
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 3: Let's analyzed what he just said about the blood, Jeff Gentry.

581
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 6: So he's exactly right.

582
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 9: Those are ninety degree blood stains, indicating that they were

583
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 9: created when somebody was standing upright and bleeding. What I

584
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 9: don't see, though, is any evidence that she was on

585
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 9: the ground struggling at any point.

586
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 6: So if she did fall and was.

587
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 9: Injured in some way, I don't see any They're called

588
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 9: transfer stains, and they look completely different than the ninety

589
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 9: degree blood drops or the stains that you see there.

590
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 9: And if she was on the ground actively bleeding and

591
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 9: trying to support herself, trying to push herself back up,

592
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 9: you would see evidence of blood transfer on the ground.

593
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 9: You would see contact stains on the wall, maybe where

594
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 9: she was trying to reposition herself. He's exactly right that

595
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 9: the debris is on top of the blood stains, so

596
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 9: that gives you an element of timing. But I do

597
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 9: know that the weather there in that area is told

598
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 9: that it was. It's rather windy on a regular basis,

599
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 9: and so it's not uncommon for things to blow onto

600
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 9: the porch. So it's possible that those debris items.

601
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: Were but gravel. I don't see wind blowing rocks or gravel,

602
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: little pieces of gravel. I don't see that. Maybe a leaf.

603
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: So what is your analysis about he's saying debris.

604
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: It looks like the gravel that was beside the ornamental

605
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: that was beside the wallway.

606
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 6: There's an era.

607
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 9: So if you look two bricks out from the wall

608
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 9: or two tiles out from the wall, there's an area

609
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 9: where there's multiple blood drops and then little tiny individual

610
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 9: satellite stains. And I talked about this the other day.

611
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 9: That's it's called a blood into blood pattern or a

612
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 9: drip pattern, and that's where somebody is stationary and the

613
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 9: blood dripping into the blood source or the blood pool

614
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 9: creates those little satellite stains. So that's that's going to

615
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 9: indicate that she was standing in that position for some

616
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 9: period of time, dripping blood onto the ground, so actively

617
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 9: dripping blood on the ground. And then next to that,

618
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 9: coming out one tile, you see what looks like possibly

619
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 9: a footwear pattern in that. So whoever was assisting her

620
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 9: or if she was wearing shoes, we.

621
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: Hold on, where do you see a footwear pattern?

622
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 9: A third tile out from the wall, there's several drip

623
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 9: stains and then what looks like a footwear impression there,

624
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 9: or a partial footwear impression.

625
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Gentry, what do you make of they gravel disruption That.

626
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 9: Could definitely be somebody walking through it or kicking it,

627
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 9: or like your other guest said, you know, if she

628
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 9: was struggling in some way or maybe even trying to

629
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 9: get away, that's definitely possible that the gravel was disturbed there,

630
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 9: or whether they were trying to help her up if

631
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 9: she fell, or if she was injured or trying to

632
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 9: resist in any way. But if she was on the

633
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 9: ground actively bleeding, you would see different blood patterns to

634
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 9: indicate that. I don't see anything that to me would

635
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 9: suggest that she was.

636
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 3: You know what it indicates to me, Just go with

637
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: me for a moment. Pull back out if you don't

638
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 3: mind on the picture. I want to see the picture

639
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 3: at a greater distance. It looks to me like somebody's

640
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 3: walking beside her and maybe trying to hold her up,

641
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: and they've gotten into the gravel.

642
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: The gravel is two our right. It would be her.

643
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 3: Left holding her maybe under the arm, and she's walking

644
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 3: forward and somebody is on her left in that gravel.

645
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: We know her.

646
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 3: Cane was in the hull, so she needs help walking.

647
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 3: According to Jeffrey Gentry, who's a blood spatter analyst, she's

648
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: upright and walking based on the blood spatter, so we

649
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: know at least one person, if we're reading this correctly,

650
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: is helping her out the front door. Are there to

651
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 3: people another question? Let me throw it everyone on the panel.

652
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot of questions on social about her pacemaker,

653
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 3: and yes, I had thought about it. I researched it,

654
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 3: I spoke to a doctor. There's no GPS and a pacemaker.

655
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: That's the way I understand it. So we're not going

656
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 3: to find her. Somebody even on Twitter tweeted me the

657
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 3: novel idea of putting her phone, which was in the home,

658
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: onto a dog and letting the dog with a handler

659
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: go through the area and see if the pacemaker alone.

660
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: That would be a very rudimentary experiment. It probably would

661
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: not work. With the point is well taken. Is there

662
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 3: a way to track that pacemaker? Does anybody have an idea?

663
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: Because what I've been told the answer is no.

664
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 6: There's probably not.

665
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 9: I've dealt with pacemakers a lot because during the death

666
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 9: investigations you have to remove people's pacemakers to have them

667
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 9: analyzed so the doctor can do it in the office.

668
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 9: But when somebody is deceased, obviously you don't take them

669
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 9: to a doctor's office, so you remove their pacemaker.

670
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 6: To have it analyzed.

671
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 9: But in her case, it sounds like it's still working

672
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 9: and could possibly connect if her device is close enough.

673
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 9: But I think it has to be within several feed

674
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 9: or a pretty close distance to her and the pacemaker

675
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 9: to get any reliable information from it.

676
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 3: Well, the other thing is is I understand it the

677
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 3: pacemaker feeds information back to let's say the doctor's office

678
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: or the clinic or the pacemaker administrator, but you have

679
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 3: to be near the device. The pacemaker doesn't send it

680
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: out across the airwaves. You've got to be near the device,

681
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 3: like her device would be at home or it would

682
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: be her.

683
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: iPhone that would count.

684
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: The pacemaker in no way is able at this juncture

685
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: to send information about her, whether she's had a heart event,

686
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: or where she is now that she's away from the

687
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: Bluetooth at the home cannot trace her through that. Does

688
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: a pacemaker continue to work post mortem? Anybody knows?

689
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, And they're designed Nancy for to report once

690
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 7: a day to the doctor's office. Typically, I mean the

691
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 7: scheduling could be a variance based on the patient's history.

692
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 6: However, they typically you.

693
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 7: Have to be near that device I either phone or

694
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 7: an Apple Watch or something to that effect. And of

695
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 7: course now we know at least she was separated from

696
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 7: that device around two twenty seven am or two twenty

697
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 7: eight am, so she could still that pacemaker could still

698
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 7: be functioning, but it's not reporting, so she very much

699
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 7: could be alive.

700
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: So Todd Shipley, you're telling me license plate reader's cell

701
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 3: phone data dumps obviously, cameras at red lights for those

702
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 3: early morning hours when there's less traffic. Any other old

703
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: polygraphs on everybody, And if you're not willing to take

704
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: a polygraph to Hay with you.

705
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: You're now on the suspect list. Am I missing anything?

706
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 8: Shipley, Well, the cameras are going to tell a story.

707
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 8: Whether it's going to have a complete story as we

708
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 8: know it's probably not, but there are going to be

709
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 8: a lot of information that they're still trying to go

710
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 8: through because we're talking hours of the multiple.

711
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 3: Games, and there were cameras in the home. Todd, there

712
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 3: were cameras in the home. Hey, I want you to

713
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 3: hear this fact, Dave mac tell them about the status

714
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 3: of the cameras at the home.

715
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 5: Well, we were told, or what has been reported, is

716
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 5: that cameras inside the home that were there, and they

717
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: were placed at different angles to cover all areas inside

718
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 5: the home so that they could be checked on by

719
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 5: family members in case Nancy were to fall or become incapacitated.

720
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: They could then see inside the home.

721
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 5: It has been reported that, yeah, they didn't pay for

722
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 5: the subscription service, and so the cameras didn't record anything

723
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 5: other than for eight hours and then it just continued

724
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: to tape over, So there is nothing saved. By the

725
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 5: time the police were involved, you aready been.

726
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 1: Gone nothing and very quickly.

727
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 3: Jeffrey, what is the difference in the wide pattern of

728
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: blood drops and the tight groupings. Is that where you're

729
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: saying blood into blood. So she's standing in one place,

730
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 3: what is that what you are saying, there's droplets and

731
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: then their satellite droplets. Exactly right, Okay, Chris mcdonna. Other

732
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 3: than canines, and if you'll recall Chris mcdonna, a canine

733
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: tracked Lacey Peterson from her home all the way to

734
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 3: the San Francisco Bay and she was in the back

735
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: of a boat we think right this far. So if

736
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: she could be traced that way, I'm wondering why cadaver

737
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: dogs can't at least give me a direction in which Nancy.

738
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 7: Went well, and that's where they the US Customs and

739
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 7: Border Patrol canine teams, the BORAC team was brought into

740
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 7: this because those dogs are trained not only in tracking,

741
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 7: but they may also have other dogs that are cross

742
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 7: trained into the cadaver aspect. So they're going to put

743
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 7: those dogs in a thirty foot lead and they're going

744
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 7: to get some type of sense inside of the house

745
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 7: that belonged to Nancy, typically a shirt or rag, a shoe,

746
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 7: something like that, and then they're going to let the

747
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 7: dog run. So the fact that those dogs are there Nancy.

748
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 7: They're really stepping it up because those dogs are really

749
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 7: super good at what they do.

750
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to you, Dave, Matt Nancy.

751
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 5: Earlier today, Tucson TV station KOLD received an email having

752
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 5: to do with Nancy Guthrie. The FBI is working to

753
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 5: confirm if the note came from the same sender as

754
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 5: the first reporter ransom note referencing Nancy Guthrie, and officials

755
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 5: caution it could take some time to verify due to

756
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 5: technical factors. It still hasn't been verified that the first

757
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: note came from someone who may have taken Nancy from

758
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 5: her home. In a statement, the Pma County Sheriff's Department

759
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 5: says the FBI and Pma County Sheriff's Department are aware

760
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 5: of a new message regarding Nancy Guthrie. Investigators are actively

761
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 5: inspecting the information provided in the message for its authenticity.

762
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 5: While this is one new piece of information, the FBI

763
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 5: and the Pema County Sheriff's Department are still asking anyone

764
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 5: with tips to contact the fa at one eight hundred

765
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 5: call FBI. The FBI continues to offer a reward of

766
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 5: up to fifty thousand dollars for information leading to the

767
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 5: recovery of Nancy Guthrie and or the arresting conviction of

768
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 5: anyone involved in her disappearance and Nancy, that's not all.

769
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 5: Investigators are back at Nancy Guthrie's house. They are closing

770
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 5: down the road and they're moving all media out of

771
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 5: the area for what they say are investigative purposes.

772
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know anything about missus

773
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two

774
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 3: five five three two four. If you wish to remain

775
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 3: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three,

776
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: there's a fifty thousand dollars reward five two zero eight

777
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: eight two seven four six three, And please again tonight

778
00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: join us in prayer for the safe return Nancy Guthrie.

779
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: Good night, friend,