1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Mark Moss Show, 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: where we talk about the decentralized revolution each and every week, 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: talking about the way the world is changing, of course 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: as we look at through the lens of politics, finance, 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: and technology, and of course that technology is bitcoined, the 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: decentralized technology that's changing the world. You know. I try 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: to bring to you, you know, some education, some late 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: breaking headlines you're always in up to date on what's 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: going on, and of course some interesting people so you 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: don't have to listen to me talk all the time. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: And that's what we have for you today. I'm happy 12 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: to have Natalie Smolenski joined me in the studio today. Natalie, 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me. My pleasure. Great to 14 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: be here. Yeah, man, so many good things to talk 15 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: about with you. I'm excited to have you sitting down 16 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: with me today. You know, trying to create content in 17 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: this environment has been pretty easy because there's never indian 18 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: amount of stuff to talk about. It it's insane, right, 19 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: you know. I know, you know, I've read some of 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: your stuff and I love your take on just kind 21 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: of the way that the world is changing, politics and 22 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: things like that. App I know, you're involved in bitcoin 23 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: and mining and things like that, so let's kind of 24 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: let's kind of start with that. It all wraps up 25 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: in together into one, right. It's like that's why I 26 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: said I like to look at politics, finance, and technology 27 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: together to get things in context. But we have like 28 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: this time where we kind of have this aging empire 29 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: that typically kind of goes in the same kind of 30 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: course of action where they're trying to grasp for control. 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: We have the banking system collapsing, we and then trying 32 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: to grab any kind of control they can. It seems 33 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: like they're kind of starting to seal off the exits, right, 34 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: trying to close down potentially exits into into bitcoin things 35 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: like that. And so we've seen an attack coming from 36 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: every angle, including this week even regarding probably what could 37 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: control bitcoin through both the restrict Act, and then I 38 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: know in Texas specifically, which has been very pro bitcoin mining, 39 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: seems to even kind of be coming under attack maybe 40 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: kind of frame up a couple of those tacks for us. Yeah, yeah, 41 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: absolutely so, I mean we're definitely in the then they 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: fight us stage. Regarding bitcoin adoption, there's um unmistakably a 43 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: influential and growing phalanx of policymakers, including elected officials, who 44 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: are openly hostile to bitcoin um and who are enemies 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: to bitcoin. And you know, I think a lot of 46 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: people in the community have made good faith efforts to 47 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: reach out to these folks and to educate them and 48 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: to engage in good faith dialogue, but they're not interested 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: in that. And so the thing about enemies is that, 50 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, for the most part, the most effective way 51 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: to deal with them is simply to keep building and 52 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: ignore them, sort of create the alternatives that are inevitable 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: to the point where they become irrelevant. But if they 54 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: bring the fight to bitcoiners, I think bitcoiners are going 55 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: to have to bring the fight back. Yeah, I love that. Actually, 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I was in Jackson Hole recently for the Bitcoin ski 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: Week and I came up when I kind of made 58 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: a post where it's like, you know, buying bitcoin is 59 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: a defensive move, right. I can go defend myself, defend 60 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: my savings, my property, etc. But it's time to be offensive. 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: We can't just be defensive. And I'm not talking about 62 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: storm in the Capitol, but building is exactly what I 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: was talking about. Time for entrepreneurs to step up. So 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: I love that love that. Do you think are they 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: hostile to bitcoin? Are they hostile to cryptocurrencies, or are 66 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: they just hostile to technology and period? That's yeah. I 67 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of overlap between those circles on 68 00:03:54,280 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: the Ven diagram. And what's interesting is that the UM, 69 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: particularly the esg kerfuffle over bitcoin, has raised the question 70 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: of whether electricity usage itself will be politically restricted. You know, 71 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: the singling out of bitcoin mining as an undesirable use 72 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: of computational power is I mean, obviously politically ludicrous. But 73 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: in an era where technology is accelerating exponentially, compute power 74 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: is also accelerating, and so there is there is no 75 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: future in which the world uses less compute. There's a 76 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: world in which computational operations become more and more energy efficient, 77 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: but the amount of those operations will continue to increase 78 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: if civilization continues to advance. You know, world in which 79 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: we use less computational power over time is a world 80 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: in which human civilization is collapsing UM. And that's not 81 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 1: a happy or good world or a politically progressive world 82 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: for anyone UM. And so I think there is a 83 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: basic set of principles that UM policymakers and public intellectuals 84 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: need to be educated in around technology having a material 85 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: basis in energy and resources that is unliable. You can't 86 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: legislate that a way. Yeah, there's there's there's a lot 87 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: to unpack there. There's I guess kind of to the 88 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: point that you're making. I mean, there's a tax coming 89 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: from multiple different angles here, and so there's there's obviously 90 00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: the attack on energy, but that's not again technology, that's 91 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: just against humanity, right, that's against human flourishing, as Alex 92 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: Epstein would say, I mean, it's against energy use. Then 93 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: they could claim that, well, bitcoin is bad because it 94 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: uses energy, but to the point you're making all computing 95 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: power use energy. Yeah, And then we have you know, 96 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren going on this rampage today trying to build 97 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: a campaign basically against crypto specifically. Yeah, which is very 98 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: rich for her. I saw Prince he posted her net 99 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: worth is sixty seven million dollars, just forty five million 100 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: dollars in assets on a two hundred and eighty thousand 101 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: dollars salary. Yeah, so she's enriched herself in this FIAT system. 102 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: I suppose that's one reason why you might be mad 103 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: about another system, but the insanity I think it was 104 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: Lynn Alden. She said, you know, if you break down 105 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: what is what is you know, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, it's, 106 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, like a decentralized ledger, it's a databases achieving consensus. 107 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna make a stance again and databases that 108 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: can achieve consensus. Yeah. Right, I feel like we're kind 109 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: of getting to this point where technology, well I don't 110 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: feel that. I believe strongly that we're getting to this 111 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: point where technology is making governments obsolete and incompetent. Yeah. 112 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: I just recently read this book called The Revolt of 113 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: the Public. It was a really good book. I interviewed 114 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 1: the author as well, and he basically makes the case 115 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: that now because we have access to information because of 116 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: the smartphones or are not smartphones, but because of the Internet. 117 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: And really just like in the Protestant Reformation, when the 118 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: printing press released information, the governments, the church and state 119 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: couldn't control that flow of information. And today with the 120 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: same thing, same phenomenal or the Internet is the same thing, 121 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: and they can't control that flow of information. And he 122 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: talked about how in the Industrial Age, basically, you know, 123 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: Henry Ford kind of had the assembly line, and everybody moved. 124 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: The masses moved into these factories, and they are able 125 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: to create management techniques to manage the masses in this 126 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: assembly line, and everybody was kind of the same. And 127 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: how government basically took the same kind of formation. Just 128 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: like these these mass factories could control the masses as digits, 129 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: then government did. But we don't live in that anymore. 130 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: Now we're in the information age. And he argues that 131 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: the form of government that we have today is not 132 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: compatible with the world that we live in, right because 133 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: now we have this freeful information. We don't have these 134 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: central authorities anymore coming down and giving this decree. And 135 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 1: that's sort of kind of like what we have here. 136 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: I want to get into that. I also I like 137 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: this I was reading. I went back and read this article. 138 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: You talked about the American Republic and democratic revolutions, which 139 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: kind of seemed to fit into that a little bit. 140 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: I want to dig into that a little bit and 141 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: some more. I gotta take a quick break. If you're 142 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: just tuned in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show, 143 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: of course, talking about the decentralized revolution. Each never week, 144 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: I'm sitting down with Natalie Smolensky, and we are discussing policy, bitcoin, cryptocurrency, technology, 145 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: government overreach. I want to get into this restrict Act 146 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: that's going through that might be the most dangerous piece 147 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: of legislation I've ever seen, and a whole lot more. 148 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna take a quick break and be back 149 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: with all of that and more in a minute. Don't 150 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: go away, We'll be right back. All right, Welcome back. 151 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: If you just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 152 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: Moss Show. We're talking about the Decentralized Revolution, and I 153 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: am joined by guest Natalie Smolensky. You can find her 154 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter at in Smolensky, and she is here talking 155 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: about some of these policies. I know you've been kind 156 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: of arguing for some of these policies that they're trying 157 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: to put against bitcoin. We're talking about bitcoin and crypto, 158 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: and I was saying before we had to take a break, 159 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: sort of it's sort of making these governments look incompetent. 160 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: I kind of want to go back just to the 161 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: question I had asked, is it bitcoin that they're going against, 162 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: like with this energy use thing, is it crypto? Because 163 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: of the the sinking ship of the financial system or 164 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: is it technology overall? And I'm not sure what your 165 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: answer was. Is it like all of that and it's 166 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: all a bunch of different factions, Yeah, UM, absolutely so 167 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: there you know, there are factions that focus on you know, 168 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: more on each one of those categories, but there's a 169 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: lot of overlap. UM. There's a lot of technophobia. UM. 170 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of UM, you know, sort of phobia 171 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: or hatred of UM corporations that are ostensibly you know, 172 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: destroying the environment through all the all of this energy usage. 173 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: And it's really remarkable for me to watch the UM 174 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: the cultural production that's happening around this. There's there's a 175 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: new show and I'm struggling to remember the title now 176 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,599 Speaker 1: that I watched. It's like UM starts with an E, 177 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: but it deals with it's sort of a near future 178 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: sci fi that deals with the effects of climate change 179 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: in the imagining of the author and has a star 180 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: studded cast including like Meryl Streep and Ed Norton and 181 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: all these people, and watching it is like it's like 182 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: watching religious television, like the like you immediately know who 183 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: you're supposed to like, who you're supposed to hate the 184 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: good guys the bad guys, like the there is a 185 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: kind of apocalyptic worldview that's on display, a righteous minority 186 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: that's fighting it. You know, it's very good versus evil. 187 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: And you know this, this kind of polarized view of 188 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: the world has become more and more frequent, even among 189 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: you know, really thoughtful people, really well educated people. I 190 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: think in large part because the problems that we're facing 191 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: as a species seem to be so intractable and complex 192 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: that people don't know where to even begin, um in 193 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: in solving them. And so you have, you know, ludicrous 194 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: suggestions like um, one of the ones that came out 195 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: of one of the recent cop UM meetings where Prince 196 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: Charles suggested that, you know, we needed to spend three 197 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: times the world's GDP to solve climate change. Um. But okay, okay, 198 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: that presumes that we already know what the solution to 199 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: this problem is. Um, we just need money. Um. But 200 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: that's that's truly not the case. Like money is not 201 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: a lack of money is not the problem here. Um, 202 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: It's that we're dealing with something with something that is 203 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: um an emergent complex, not just natural system but social system, 204 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: human economic system um, and there are there are real 205 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: effects um to whatever policy direct we take. And you know, 206 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: governments are proving that they are in fact not the 207 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: venue that is capable of solving these problems. And so 208 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: then the question becomes what are the alternatives to action 209 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: by the state. And we're seeing that in these orthogonal movements, 210 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: of which bitcoin is just one example. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. 211 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: We have all these different complex systems that all interact 212 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: with each other, which make it even a bigger complex system. 213 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: And to think that you can fix something with one 214 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: button push without affecting all these other things. Yeah, I 215 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: commented on Preston Pish put out a tweet earlier this 216 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: morning and he was talking about how with the banking collapse, 217 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these smaller banks going down is now 218 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: affecting the LG and the energy market. Yeah, and so 219 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: I was like, I commented, and I was like, so 220 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: to fight inflation, we raise rates. To raise rates, we 221 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: crush the banking sect right then we have to beild 222 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: them out. That's inflationary. Right then we damage the industry 223 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: and an energy industry, which is inflationary. So by by 224 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: thinking there's one single metric or one single trigger of 225 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: of interest rates. But then we cause all these other 226 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: problems and it's sort of like then thinking we can 227 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: control the entire world that we don't even understand with 228 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: a single metric like carbon or carbon emission. Yep. So 229 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: what do you think is the is the proper way 230 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: to do it? And I would just say for me, 231 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: I think that complex systems have to be free and 232 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: let them sort of figure it out. I think a 233 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: lot of it comes from a worldview where these people 234 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: have like a godlike complex. They think they're God and 235 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: they have to go figure this out. It's up to them. Yeah, 236 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what what's your take on that? Yeah? 237 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely so, any bottom up theory of change, you know, 238 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: whether we're talking about Austrian economics or you know, certain 239 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: verse versions of socialism or you know, anarcho syndicalism or 240 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: whatever you know, is premised on the idea that human 241 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: individual agents acting in their own interest will over time 242 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: coalesce into social formations that give us more accurate information, 243 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: for example, about price, better living conditions for everyone, because 244 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: we don't have these like over leveraged social actors imposing 245 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: their will on others and create sort of d risk change, 246 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: so the system will include both the ability to exit 247 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: and the ability to influence a system through voice, which 248 00:15:53,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: are both necessary mechanisms of adaptation and reform. The problem 249 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: problem with the way that governments are currently constellated is 250 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: that they, you know, they have a few tools in 251 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: their toolkit. Um. They like to cut off the exits. 252 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: They like to cut off voice, so in effect render 253 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: voice ineffective. UM. And then they like to pick winners UM. 254 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: And so when you when you say they, in this instance, 255 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: you're talking about like the powers that be right right, 256 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: so um, representatives of the state government agencies, heads of 257 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: those agencies, UM, the executive branch UM, even in some 258 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: cases powerful legislators or judicial actors. UM. They have a 259 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: tendency to put their thumbs on the scale um to 260 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: such an extent that they render the system as a 261 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: whole more fragile UM. And so what happens is that, 262 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, social pressure for change builds up, it has 263 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: no where to go, and it then gets released either 264 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: in like big acts of coordinated revolution or in smaller 265 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: acts of sort of stochastic violence, you know, which like 266 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: we've been seeing in the United States and like the 267 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: mass shooting phenomenon, like, why is that? Why is that 268 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: phenomenon accelerating? And it's it's not just people want ideological orientation, 269 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: it's people. It's a good question that should be asked. 270 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: For sure, we should definitely stop. I gotta take a 271 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: quick break. If you just tune in, you're listening to 272 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: the Mark Moss Show. We're talking about the decentralized Revolution, 273 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: but we're talking about so much more. I'm joined by 274 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: guest at Natalie Smolinsky, and digging into these complex systems 275 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: and figuring out maybe where it's going wrong. I want 276 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: to dig into that last part you talked about, and 277 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: then I want to get into thinking about it from 278 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: a hopeful perspective. What can we do maybe to make 279 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: things a little bit better. So we'll talk about all 280 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: that and more. We're gonna take a quick break back 281 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: in a minute. Don't go way, we'll be right back. 282 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: All right, Welcome back. If you just tune in, you're 283 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moas Show. We're talking about the 284 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: decentralized Revolution. I'm in the studio with Natalie Smilinsky. We're 285 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: talking about complex systems and democratic governments and of course 286 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: money and technology. You know, Natalie, you were talking about 287 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: these systems. One of the things that you said a 288 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: couple of times was we have to have the ability 289 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: to exit the system. So when I think about that, 290 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: when I think about exiting the system, I think about 291 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: much smaller systems, sort of like the United States government 292 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: was set up as a republic, and by being able 293 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: to exit one system and enter another system, then it 294 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: allows those systems to test different operating systems, if you will, 295 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: as well as we get to see what competition can 296 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: do to outcompete each other. Is that one of the 297 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: things that you're kind of thinking about in the ability 298 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: to exit the system. Yeah. Absolutely so. One of the 299 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: one of the interesting things about the formation of the 300 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: American Republic is, you know, the earliest Americans didn't didn't 301 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: come to America to fight a revolution against the British crown. 302 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: That was not that was not their goal. They came 303 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: for other reasons. They were exiting UM in order to 304 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: trade more freely, worship more freely, um, escape the lifelong 305 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: burden of debt UM. That was just an ingrained practice 306 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: in the old world UM to you know, live without 307 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: the inherited burden of aristocratic power which defined the horizon 308 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: of class possibility in Europe. And so you know, people 309 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: people exit in order to pursue specific goals um. And 310 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: then if the reasons for exit become unattainable, UM, well 311 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: then the only other option is voice. UM. And then 312 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: if you can't use voice either to achieve your goals, 313 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: well that at that point you've sort of the social 314 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: system is set up for violence to be really the 315 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: only only path forward. And so the reason that you 316 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: know democratic governments are so compelling politically is because they're ostensibly, 317 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: in theory, structured to facilitate peaceful transitions of power. If 318 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: you don't like one government, you can vote a different 319 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: one in that you like better, and that makes your 320 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: life better, and so you can use voice. And then 321 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,239 Speaker 1: if you still don't like that government, you're free to 322 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: emigrate elsewhere. You're free to go elsewhere. Um. What we've 323 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: seen in the past few decades is a sort of 324 00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: captor of the democratic process by the political part parties 325 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: who are themselves not democratic institutions and are very open 326 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: about that. Um. And but it's a threat to our democracy, 327 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: you were being told, right, And so in effect, like 328 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: we we can't exit as easily as we used to, 329 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: and our voice is less impactful than ever before. Um, 330 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: And so then what is the remedy, Well, it's it's 331 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: a little bleak, yeah, especially when the last the last 332 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: option that you gave us, which there's other options we'll 333 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: get to. But as you just laid that out, which 334 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: is the democratic process, which yeah, I view as the 335 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 1: tyranny of the minority by the majority. So there's that 336 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: we could we could unpack that, especially if the democratic 337 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: process doesn't work. But um, but specifically then if you 338 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: if they limit your voice, and so you know, I've 339 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: been kind of framing this up as kind of this 340 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: war of information really where we're going. I had a 341 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: great conversation with doctor Robert Malone talking about what he 342 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: framed up as the fifth generation of warfare, which is 343 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: what he says that we're in, which is sort of 344 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: this like psychological warfare, information warfare. And so the way 345 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: that you win an information a war of information is 346 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: by controlling the information. If I believe truth would win, 347 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: but if they don't have truth on their side, then 348 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: they have to censor that. And so I think that's 349 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: sort of what we're seeing. So now they've taken they've 350 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: captured the democratic process. Now they have to capture the 351 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: ability to voice our opinions. And I've seen this coming. 352 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen it coming, and it really seems 353 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: like it's coming to a head with this restrict Act. 354 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean, this is potentially I told my wife and 355 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: my producer here it might have been six months ago, 356 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: a year ago, and I said, there's probably a good 357 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: chance in the next two years I won't be able 358 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: to do what I'm doing here in the United States, 359 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: and meaning speaking out publicly criticizing the government. And I said, 360 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: in the next two years here we are with this 361 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: restrict Act that potentially could like put that in check, 362 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: like right away. Would you say that's one big piece 363 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: of them trying to kind of grasp on and control 364 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: us from being able to speak out. Yeah, absolutely. I 365 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: mean the restrict Act is quite possibly the most totalitarian 366 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: piece of legislation I've ever seen in the United States. 367 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: And it's you know, it's adherents or authors rather have 368 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: responded to me on Twitter and said, this is you know, 369 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: you're spreading misinformation, You're misunderstanding the intent of the law. 370 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,239 Speaker 1: It's really nothing particularly you. It's drawing on you know 371 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: this other you know, legislation on foreign investments, on the 372 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: Patriot Act, and blah blah. I would suggest though, that 373 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: the status quo already is quite draconian, and most people 374 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: are just not aware of the extent to which the 375 00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 1: federal government has become capable of policing speech and now 376 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: the sort of you know, there's generally by the time 377 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: something is proposed as a bill for Congress, it's already 378 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: been going on for a very long time, um, And 379 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: the congressional authorization is sort of the fig leaf legitimizing 380 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: practices that are already well underway. And so, you know, 381 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: for decades the the government of both both parties, Democrat 382 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: and Republican, has had the point of view that the 383 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: Secretary of Commerce and the Secretary of Defense should be 384 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: able to regulate information technologies, including encryption technologies, including the Internet. Um, 385 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, the broadest possible authority over telecommunications, because these 386 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: things constitute potential national security threats. Always it's always, you know, 387 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: for your security. Yeah. Yeah, there's a couple of pieces 388 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: in there that were extremely troubling. I think one first 389 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: of all, to the point that you kind of said first, 390 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: where some of them have kind of come out come 391 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: on Twitter and said, hey, you're kind of misinterpreting this, 392 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: or you're misconstruing this. A lot of this is intentionally 393 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: broad and vague, so it can be interpreted in any 394 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: way they want. So that's that's a big that's a 395 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: big problem. Coup a couple of things that I saw. 396 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it seemed worse than what I might expect 397 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: living in North Korea. I mean, if you violate this, 398 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: your subject to twenty years in prison, a million dollar fine, 399 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: and loss of all your property. So I say something 400 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: or do something they don't like, and I lose all 401 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: my property twenty years in prison. Then different and with 402 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: no due process? Yeah, like what no due process? That's 403 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: miles late, greatly forward. And then even more troubling, well 404 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: I don't know about more, but equally as troubling was 405 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: the unlimited hiring power to positions of enforcement and unlimited 406 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: funds with little or no review and immunity to Foyer requests. 407 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: What I mean, that's worth it. I mean, that's that 408 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: that that's like trying to one up. I put a 409 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: Twitter threat out and I said, if you can't be China, 410 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: join them, right, And it's like, I mean we're trying 411 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: to one up them and oh my god, yeah ten 412 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: xom Like in China, you know, if you if you 413 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: access a band app through a VPN, like the most 414 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: likely thing that's going to happen is that your phone 415 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: is going to stop functioning in certain ways until you 416 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: delete the VPN or until you delete the app. You 417 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: may get fined, you know, like less than a hundred 418 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: bucks um in extreme cases if they if they choose 419 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: to come after you, they could put you in prison 420 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: for a few months or a few years. But it's 421 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: nothing like this. Yeah, nothing, nothing like this. I mean, 422 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: it's just yeah, it's just insane. And again it's equally 423 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: broad and vague so that it can be applied and 424 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: and it also allows them some deflection like oh, that's 425 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: not really what it says, which means it's open to interpretation, 426 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: which means that they could they could interpret however they want. 427 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Markmas Show. We're talking about the 428 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: Decentralized Revolution, talking about right now some of these laws 429 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: that are coming against technology and our ability to protect 430 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: ourselves with cryptocurrencies and bitcoin. I'm in this studio with 431 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: Natalie Smilinsky. I'm gonna be back with more in a minute. 432 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Don't go away, I'm gonna be right back. All right, 433 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: Welcome back. If you just tune in, you're listening to 434 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: the Markmas Show. I'm talking with Natalie Smilinsky. We're talking 435 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: about a lot of things. We were talking about the 436 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: restrict Act, which is potentially the most restrictive act we've 437 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: ever seen come forward. Natalie, you know, this is really scary. 438 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: The one thing that scares me about this is there's 439 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: a lot of big name, you know, representatives signed onto 440 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: this bill. This isn't like some little obscure freshman put 441 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: this bill forward, like we see that happen all the time, 442 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: and you know they don't stand a chance. This has 443 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: a lot of very prominent people on this bill. I 444 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: can't imagine it would go through like this, but because 445 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: of all the big names that are on there, it 446 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: makes me think maybe it could. What's your take on that, 447 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: you think this gets trashed and then probably comes back 448 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: a little bit lighter or what are you thinking? Yeah, 449 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: I think it's it's evidence of the accelerating consolidation of 450 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: power in the imperial presidency that has been underway for 451 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: decades now. So every presidential administration pushes that trend further 452 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: and further, and then often, you know, the next administration 453 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: gets elected on a platform of rolling back some of 454 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: that consolidation of executive power, but they then they end 455 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: up just doing it more so in the case of 456 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: the Biden administration, the restrict Act was actually born out 457 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party's opposition to President Trump UMP's executive 458 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: order to ban TikTok, which was challenged in the courts 459 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: and never implemented. And you know, Biden ran in part 460 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: on you know, not taking these kind of unilateral executive actions, 461 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: but instead he issued an executive order to research the 462 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: problem of TikTok and apps. And so now it's been researched, 463 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: and this bill is a product of that research, and 464 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: lo and behold, it's even worse than President Trump's executive order. 465 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: And so what happens is the new normal just becomes 466 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: worse and worse and worse with every administration until the 467 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: point where we no longer have a republic. Right. Yeah. 468 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: I try to always remind people to keep that in mind, 469 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, laws, whether you like them or not. When 470 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: I turned eighteen, my dad told me, remember Mark, when 471 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: you go to vote every law, whether you like it 472 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: or not, is less freedom. That was the one thing 473 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: he kind of instilled in me. And I think I 474 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: look at like Ron de Santa, what he's doing in Florida, 475 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: and while I generally like what he's doing and I 476 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: would almost want to move to Florida to go support him, 477 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: a lot of times I actually look at it from 478 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: both sides and I'm like, wait a minute, though, that's 479 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: an authoritarian move, and that could easily be Just because 480 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: I agree with it doesn't make it right because that 481 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: could easily be used against me. And so he's also 482 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: doing very authoritarian because I just happen to agree with them, 483 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: So it doesn't offend me as much. But you have 484 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: to be able to look at it from both sides. Now, 485 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: the way this is going, and to your point, it's 486 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: an escalation, it just continues to build on top of 487 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: its next although this I call it the Obama Biden 488 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: administration has taken things to a whole other level. Now. 489 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: I saw John Kerry's talking about how Biden's now going 490 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: to release a bunch of executive orders for climate change now, 491 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: including regulating cars and trucks and all these things. Now 492 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: it looks sort of bleak to your point you've said, 493 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, they've kind of co opted the democratic process. 494 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: Our vote doesn't matter so much anymore. Now they're doing 495 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: lots of things to to restrict our voice. That's pretty scary, 496 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: you know. With I'm very bullish on these decentralized tools. 497 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: Obviously Bitcoin, the decentralized monetary network, and then like Noster, 498 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 1: like a decentralized communication network. Super bullish on that. And 499 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: so I know this state can't shut those down, but 500 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: they could threaten to kill you, right, which is sort 501 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: of almost what this is. This is like almost death right. 502 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: And so like they know they can't shut the Joe 503 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: Rogans down or a million little means, but if they 504 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: could just say, hey, we'll put you in prison forever, 505 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: then they sort of do. So you had said earlier, 506 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, talking about a kind of exit the system, 507 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: and we kind of started about I said, it's time 508 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: to go on the offensive. What do you think, like, 509 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: what's our best course of action if we can't If 510 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: we can't you know, we can't vote, or vote doesn't 511 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: count as much, our voice can't really be heard. I mean, 512 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: do we try to change things to the economic means? Yeah, 513 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: So you know, bitcoin is a fantastic example of not 514 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: using the politicals at all. Um, a bottom up theory 515 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: of change through user adoption of a superior money um. 516 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: And so it's just you know, superior technology. Once it's 517 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: out of the bag, doesn't matter if you like it 518 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: or hate it. It's it's gonna win. Um. And so 519 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: I actually am very optimistic and very bullish on the 520 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin front. But a world in which bitcoin wins isn't 521 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: necessarily a good world, Like when we're when we're talking 522 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: about the demise of confidence in the American empire de dollarization. 523 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a world in which billions of people suffer, 524 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: like really really suffer, and and a lot of in 525 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: the transitional period most likely. And this is why, interestingly, 526 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people refuse to entertain the bitcoin thesis 527 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: and are just like viscerally emotionally opposed to it because 528 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: they're like, well, you know, bitcoin only wins if everything 529 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: falls apart, and you people are psychopaths to want that. Well, 530 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: it's not that we want it, it's that you cannot 531 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: trust structures of authority over the long term, any authority, 532 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: even the ones that start out nice and good, and 533 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: that you like, because power corrupts always no exception if 534 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: it if it can do something over a long enough 535 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: period of time, it will. Um. That's the whole premise 536 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: of the Enlightenment theory of governance. And so I would 537 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: I would, I would want to just maybe see if 538 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: I could put push back on that for us. Yeah, 539 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: to your point, a transition is going to be very difficult. 540 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: And to the point I would also agree, if the 541 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: dollar system comes crashing down anytime soon, it's going to 542 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: be a world to hurt for a lot of people. Yeah. Um, However, Um, 543 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, I saw len Alden posted this earlier today 544 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter, and she said, I showed the charts below. 545 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: Dollar homogeney and its current form is synonymous with antimer 546 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: on this policy, meaning that it hallows out domestic industrial 547 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: capacity and exchange for widening the external reach of political 548 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: military influence of the country. So basically you've seen all 549 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: the charts on like wtf happened nineteen seventy one Since 550 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: we've gone into this system, this dollar homogene this fiat 551 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: money system, inflation has ravaged everybody in the US. It's 552 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: hollowed out the middle class, it's driven all types of 553 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: societal conflicts. It's you know, as charts show on the website, 554 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: led to you know, incarceration rate going up, divorce rates 555 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: going up, health obesity rates going up, and what we've 556 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: done to the rest of the world. I mean, we'd 557 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: live with this inflation and some of us get by okay. 558 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: A lot of people are not doing okay, but the 559 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: rest of the world has been completely ravaged, and we're 560 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: causing one revolution after another after another another because they 561 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: can't afford to eat. What we've seen in Lebanon and 562 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: Turkey and Argentina and Venezuela, and a lot of that's 563 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: because of the dollars. So it's sort of like it's 564 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 1: sort of like, you know, these anti energy people saying, hey, 565 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: this apocalyptic future now Accepstein's like, it's apocalyptic today for 566 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people. And so we think about this 567 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: dollar demise, what is it really doing. It allows us 568 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: to sanction anyone, allows us to keep military based to 569 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: all of the world, but what is it doing to 570 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: increase the quality of life of anybody in the United 571 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: States and even more spectally the world. Right, Yeah, absolutely, Um, 572 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, it was very very much like Lynn said 573 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: earlier today, Um, you know what's good for America the 574 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: empire isn't necessary isn't necessarily good for America the country. Um, yeah, 575 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: but exactly. Yeah, And so I'm I'm in full agreement. 576 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: I mean, we need to reshore our manufacturing capabilities, We 577 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: need to invest in domestic talent, um in you know, 578 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: our education sector, Like these are things that we've we've 579 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: we've just increasingly outsourced at all levels of the socioeconomic 580 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: ladder um to foreign talent outside of the United States. Well, 581 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, we should be incentivizing people to come here 582 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: and build in America. Um, literally, you know, making America 583 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: great again in the world's talent capital. Um. We're very 584 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: Are you one of those magas you want to make 585 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: a Yeah, yeah, but no, you're you're absolutely right. Um. 586 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: And this is the thing about structural transitions. They may 587 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: be necessary, they may absolutely be the healthier thing over 588 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: the long run. But the longer a problem has sort 589 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: of festered, and the more the more bags people are 590 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: holding in the old system, the more painful that transition 591 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: is going to be. Yeah. Yeah, good point, man. That's 592 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: so so much good information, so much food for thought. Um, 593 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: if you're just tuning in, you listening to the Markma 594 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: Show sitting down with Natalie Smolensky. You can find her 595 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: on Twitter at inn Smolensky. We'll leave it in the 596 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: show notes down below. Man wed a lot of ground 597 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: and Natalie, thanks so much for taking the time. And 598 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: with that we gotta go. Thanks so much for listening. 599 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: My pleasure.