Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel, Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 1: What's up? Everybody? Welcome to move to stacks. DJ Buck
Speaker 1: back with you, Buck. What is going on?
Speaker 2: Man? Not too much? DJ love the response to the
Speaker 2: ranking of the product. I've seen some aggregators have picked
Speaker 2: up some of the conversations that we've had. That is
Speaker 2: always fun and look just to let the listeners know
Speaker 2: like it's an opinion. It's an opinion based on what
Speaker 2: we've seen around the league and how you kind of
Speaker 2: put it. But I just think it's always interesting when
Speaker 2: we do the tabulations to begin to talk about which
Speaker 2: teams are really gonna be in the conversation to be
Speaker 2: title contenders, because we know it's formulaic, but typically if
Speaker 2: you rank, you start winning the little battles. Is gonna
Speaker 2: give your opportunity win a war at the end of it.
Speaker 1: No doubt, and we will, you know, we will knock
Speaker 1: out the head coaches on tomorrow's episode. Today we're going
Speaker 1: to tackle the secondary. We've already got the skill players
Speaker 1: on offense done. You can go back and listen to
Speaker 1: those episodes if you've missed them. So before we get
Speaker 1: to those secondary discussion, ranking these by division. Buck, I
Speaker 1: did want to tell you I've got uh, I've got
Speaker 1: one in the books. So I just started working on
Speaker 1: guys for next year. I was trying to watch them
Speaker 1: dudes over the summer, and so the first one that
Speaker 1: I watched, I felt like I had to. I did
Speaker 1: Shuder Sanders, so I got to peek at him. Our
Speaker 1: buddy dion Son, so I got a chance to watch him,
Speaker 1: and Uh, interesting, man, you can find the evaluation. I'll
Speaker 1: have a first look scot of report will be on
Speaker 1: NFL dot com here the next couple of days. I
Speaker 1: won't spoil the whole thing, but I would say a
Speaker 1: couple of things. Number One, we have we have the
Speaker 1: numbers now in terms of talking to somebodies around the league.
Speaker 1: You have all of the the spring stuff that they did.
Speaker 1: They went in there and got official measurements from a
Speaker 1: lot of these schools. In Colorado was one where they
Speaker 1: where they did that. So Schadeur was six oh one
Speaker 1: two so uh, six to one and a quarter one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety eight pounds, And going through and watching him,
Speaker 1: I would say positive side of things. Man. He is
Speaker 1: he's a pure thrower, like just a pure natural thrower,
Speaker 1: rinding me a little bit of Stroud from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of when everything is just lined up, you know, pretty consistently,
Speaker 1: he's accurate, he can drive the ball well, he doesn't
Speaker 1: need a lot of space around him to be able
Speaker 1: to drive the football. Just a real gifted, real gifted thrower.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the one thing I would say
Speaker 1: on the positive side, But obviously the negative he's been
Speaker 1: hit a lot, I guess literally and figuratively here because
Speaker 1: the sacks, like fifty two sacks takes a ton of sacks.
Speaker 1: They weren't good up front, man, the backs struggled in
Speaker 1: pass protection. They just get running through. So some of
Speaker 1: those it's not on him. He's he's got numbers that
Speaker 1: should match up. But then you just get your back
Speaker 1: destroyed and run over led to some of those some
Speaker 1: of those sacks. So but still holding the ball a
Speaker 1: little bit too much. And the other thing I would
Speaker 1: say is, if you're gonna say area to improve on,
Speaker 1: start with the sacks. Then I would add into that
Speaker 1: just some of the shorter air of quickness stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's he's not super sudden in terms of being
Speaker 1: able to avoid climb and snap and that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: I'm about talking about running a forty fast. I'm talking
Speaker 1: about you know, think about guys like Brady, how efficient
Speaker 1: he was in short space, Think about Drew Brees, how
Speaker 1: he can just kind of climb and maneuver and get
Speaker 1: away from pressure. I think he can. You know, it's
Speaker 1: something he can work on a little just being a
Speaker 1: little more urgent, a little more a little more demonstrative
Speaker 1: with his movement there in the pocket to get away
Speaker 1: from some of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because I've written about him elsewhere in
Speaker 2: terms of like Shuder Sanaders QB. One is so funny
Speaker 2: because I evaluations are very very similar DJ and just
Speaker 2: watching him like he does have like what I call
Speaker 2: a very natural feel in the pocket. In terms of
Speaker 2: like playing the game in a traditional sense, like he
Speaker 2: can make wild throws, he can come through in the clutch,
Speaker 2: he can do all of those things where you talked
Speaker 2: about like a little bit of like seeing his clock up.
Speaker 2: I talked about the nonchalant stead he plays with. I
Speaker 2: feel like sometimes in the pocket he can be a
Speaker 2: little too casual and that leads to some of the
Speaker 2: hit Steady takes more urgency with then help him get
Speaker 2: the ball out of his hands. So if I don't
Speaker 2: have a great line up front, then I got to
Speaker 2: quicken my clock to protect myself, you know. And so
Speaker 2: if he can learn that in those things, and look
Speaker 2: I just said, he has to learn that, and for
Speaker 2: us as evaluators, we'll get a chance to see. First
Speaker 2: we saw him in the Pac twelve. When now we
Speaker 2: see him in the Big twelve, we'll get a better
Speaker 2: chance to really evaluate him. Because he dominated at Jackson State,
Speaker 2: he showed flashes at Colorado. If he's able to dominate
Speaker 2: in the Big twelve, then you feel better about him
Speaker 2: potentially be in the first quarterback that comes off the board. Neation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, last year, I think he was sixty nine point
Speaker 1: three percent in terms of accuracy. And I'm never talking
Speaker 1: about actucy numbers because it's ball placement league. It's not
Speaker 1: an accuracy league. You look at the college numbers, those
Speaker 1: can be inflated. Honestly, Buck, I would trade sixty nine
Speaker 1: point three percent accuracy at fifty two sacks. I would
Speaker 1: trade for sixty five percent accuracy and cut those sacks
Speaker 1: by twelve to fourteen, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: just you extend some throwaways in there instead of taking
Speaker 1: so many negative plays. But again, I don't want to
Speaker 1: may sound negative because as a thrower seeing the field,
Speaker 1: delivering the ball, accurately, layering the ball, driving the ball,
Speaker 1: the different types of throws, he is gifted. So again
Speaker 1: you can find more of that evaluation. That'll be on
Speaker 1: NFL dot com here in the next couple of days.
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to kind of what you're whistling,
Speaker 1: you've already done your work on them.
Speaker 2: No, no, if the teaser, because I mean, look these
Speaker 2: there's going to be so much conversation about him. And
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, like the challenge in this is kind
Speaker 2: of like one of the first times that you're evaluating
Speaker 2: the son's a son of a friend and you're trying
Speaker 2: to be respectful of your relationship while also being truthful
Speaker 2: and honest. And so when Prime calls, you want to
Speaker 2: be able to give him the goods, the real and
Speaker 2: here's where he needs to work on. This is what
Speaker 2: it looks like in those things. But I will say
Speaker 2: he certainly has the potential to be a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: It's about cleaning the other stuff up and then the
Speaker 2: other part of it is going to be And I
Speaker 2: said this, which franchise will be okay with the antics
Speaker 2: and theatrics that come along with being Sudu or sand
Speaker 2: meaning the boldness to confidence to cockiness, however you want
Speaker 2: to phrase it, like, are you okay with that? And
Speaker 2: if if you are okay, like, can you get him
Speaker 2: to rend it in to the point of being a
Speaker 2: professional NFL quarterback? If that makes sense to that? And
Speaker 2: there's no code in language that I'm using, but really
Speaker 2: there's a way that you expect your franchise quarterback to act.
Speaker 2: And so look, he's a big brand, but can he
Speaker 2: a doll it in and be the face of the
Speaker 2: franchise that everybody will feel comfortable with.
Speaker 1: That's that's a bigger conversation. Yeah, I mean it's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's gonna interesting just because you have so many guys
Speaker 1: that have transferred in and so many guys that have
Speaker 1: transferred out. So what that's going to do is it's
Speaker 1: going to provide a lot of opportunity for scouts to, uh, hey,
Speaker 1: if you're in the quarterback market, you're gonna be able
Speaker 1: to talk to a lot of his teammates at Jackson
Speaker 1: State as well as the guys who were in Colorado
Speaker 1: last year. A whole new group of guys coming to
Speaker 1: Colorado this year. You're gonna be able to visit with
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that have been in the locker
Speaker 1: room with him, They've been in a huddle with him,
Speaker 1: and you'll get a sense of that stuff because all
Speaker 1: the other you know, where are the watches and doing
Speaker 1: all that stuff. If the teammates swear by him and
Speaker 1: sign off on him and say he's one of the
Speaker 1: dudes and and we're for him, nobody talking about that
Speaker 1: stuff they want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fascinating conversation. I do love this time of the
Speaker 2: year because we talked about like we put the last
Speaker 2: class to bid and now we're beginning to look towards
Speaker 2: the new class. So conversations are always kind of fun.
Speaker 1: Yep. Well, let's get rolling here into the secondary and
Speaker 1: again remind everybody secondary in this episode. We'll come back tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We'll do a quick one on the head coaches in
Speaker 1: each division, and then we'll have the tabulations and kind
Speaker 1: of give you where we are on these divisions and
Speaker 1: how we have them shaken out. Let's start here, Buck,
Speaker 1: you are up AFC East secondaries one, two, three, four.
Speaker 1: How we going woo.
Speaker 2: Man, it's so tough. The easiest choice to me is
Speaker 2: number one.
Speaker 1: I got the Jets, yep.
Speaker 2: Then I'm gonna go with the Miami Dolphins. I have
Speaker 2: the New England Patriots, and then I have the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 2: And that is crazy for me to say, sending the
Speaker 2: Buffalo Bill have been good for so long.
Speaker 1: In the back end, yeah, well, I mean we had
Speaker 1: Leslie Frasier on episode earlier in the week, and you
Speaker 1: know when he's referencing Tredevious White and then he's talking
Speaker 1: about Hide and Ployer and it's like, Okay, well, this
Speaker 1: is a whole new era here for this Buffalo secondary.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you. I have them four. I had
Speaker 1: the Jets one. We agree there. I just had New
Speaker 1: England two over Miami three. I thought that was a
Speaker 1: close one. But I'll tell you what. Christian go Zalez,
Speaker 1: before he got hurt last year, was playing Boston. He's
Speaker 1: like a number one. He's a pure number one corner.
Speaker 1: You look at Pepper's and Dugger as two guys that
Speaker 1: can do a lot of different things. They're versatile, they're
Speaker 1: very smart, very instinctive. So to me, those are those
Speaker 1: are key pieces there. I'm I'm hopeful we'll see my guy,
Speaker 1: Marte Mapho get a little more run this year. Last year,
Speaker 1: they you know, he played sparingly. I was a fan
Speaker 1: of his just again because of the intelligence, the instincts,
Speaker 1: the ability to play some linebacker, play, some safety, some
Speaker 1: nickel linebacker stuff. So we'll see how they incorporate him
Speaker 1: in your number two. But I really like that in
Speaker 1: New England crew, so I had it just that swap
Speaker 1: there with them in Miami. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only reason, like the thing that tipped the
Speaker 2: scales in Miami's favor for me is obviously the Jayalen
Speaker 2: Ramsey effect and Kimda Fuller, who has really got a
Speaker 2: lot of notoriety and acclaim as being one of the
Speaker 2: top slot corners. Bringing him over gives them that experience.
Speaker 2: But look, I can knock what you talk about with
Speaker 2: the New England patients because you mentioned the guys like
Speaker 2: Pepper's and Douggart, but also Marcus Jones, the NUKA corner,
Speaker 2: who is a freak show when it comes to being
Speaker 2: a returner. He's also another really good player. They have
Speaker 2: some talent in certain parts on certain parts of their
Speaker 2: roster that really make you optimistic that at some point
Speaker 2: the New England page is going to turn the corner.
Speaker 1: One of the things going through and ranking all these
Speaker 1: what I learned is there's a lot of good nickels
Speaker 1: in the league. Like when you're going through and looking
Speaker 1: at these teams, there's a lot of teams that have
Speaker 1: really good nickels. It used to be back in the
Speaker 1: day that was so hard to find those guys. Why
Speaker 1: do you think that is? Why do you think we're
Speaker 1: seeing Uh, you know, the the six sess so to speak,
Speaker 1: at that position and a lot of depth around the league.
Speaker 2: Well, I think when offensive started playing a lot of
Speaker 2: eleven personnel, it forced defense to react and really treat
Speaker 2: the nickel position like a starting position. So it wasn't
Speaker 2: only in terms of like treating that in terms of,
Speaker 2: hey man, you're a starter, but the way we evaluate
Speaker 2: the position DJ When you and I were scouting, it
Speaker 2: was a separate category on the board for nickels. But
Speaker 2: a lot of times those nickel guys were just the
Speaker 2: guys that didn't necessarily make the height requirement right, so
Speaker 2: he can be a nickel. Now I believe that people
Speaker 2: are really looking and evaluating the position as colleges are
Speaker 2: using the position because we've heard like the star position
Speaker 2: for so long in college, guys are now really evaluating
Speaker 2: the slot defendive position separately from how they're doing the
Speaker 2: quarterback position. And it's allowed us to get a better product,
Speaker 2: a better player on the interior as opposed to a
Speaker 2: guy that was a throwaway because he was a short
Speaker 2: guy who may not have had the straight line speed
Speaker 2: to some of the other guys had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way to answer that. Let's get
Speaker 1: to the to the AFC North here, Buck. This one
Speaker 1: is challenging for the point where I could make a
Speaker 1: case four is one and one is four. But what
Speaker 1: do you got?
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati in order.
Speaker 2: Cleveland just because Jim Schwartz showed us what you can
Speaker 2: do when you have three DB's that can legitimately lock
Speaker 2: up and play man demand. They can do a Denzel Ward,
Speaker 2: Martin Emerson Junior, Greg Newsom. They are terrific in coverage
Speaker 2: when they go nose to nose and play. And then
Speaker 2: grand Dale pitt has been a guy that can get
Speaker 2: around the ball. But one Thornhill, the guy that the
Speaker 2: safety came over from Ken City a couple years ago.
Speaker 2: Just the activity that he brings in the midfield. To me,
Speaker 2: it's an experienced secondary that is really showing a lot
Speaker 2: of expertise when it comes to how they played.
Speaker 1: Manda Man, Yeah, I just look, you gotta flush the
Speaker 1: last game out of your head on that one when
Speaker 1: when Houston was a track meet against them. So that
Speaker 1: was the only that was the only thing that was
Speaker 1: that was a tough one for me, was just getting
Speaker 1: through that. But I agree with you, I love the
Speaker 1: way they play. To me, I ended up going Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: number one, which may surprise you. Uh, Cleveland two, Cincinnati three,
Speaker 1: Baltimore four, and look, and I say that, let's start
Speaker 1: at the end here with Baltimore. Nate Wiggins comes in,
Speaker 1: you know, big time pure cover corner tackling was an
Speaker 1: issue and a concern of ours. But we'll see, you
Speaker 1: know how he does in that department. They they intend
Speaker 1: to get the toughness out of people there in Baltimore. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I love the safety combo Kyle Hamilton and Marcus Williams
Speaker 1: as good as it gets. Brandon Stevens, who can do
Speaker 1: a lot of different things. Uh, you know, you got
Speaker 1: Marlin Humphrey, who was kind of the old head. They're
Speaker 1: the VET. You've got a couple of young guys there,
Speaker 1: led by TJ. Tampa. I'm excited to see how he
Speaker 1: kind of fits in there. So that's a good group.
Speaker 1: But I have him at four Pittsburgh at one is
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Number one, Minka, you know, just steady, reliable,
Speaker 1: the leadership, the production, the you know everything about him.
Speaker 1: I love. I think Joey Porter's on a rocket ship buck.
Speaker 1: I really feel I have a chance to go out
Speaker 1: and see him in training camp last year and some
Speaker 1: guys just out there practice. You watch it and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with his dad and nothing like that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this guy gets it. He looks like a stealer,
Speaker 1: he plays like a steeler. He's going to be really
Speaker 1: really good man. And you mentioned the Cleveland and I
Speaker 1: think Cincinnati two is a good group and they steal
Speaker 1: from Baltimore getting Geno Stone who's a really good player,
Speaker 1: and Mike Hilton speaking of Nichols that are really good,
Speaker 1: A really really good player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Joey Porter Jr. I said it somewhere. I said, man,
Speaker 2: look I think he's the next coming. He's the next
Speaker 2: guy that we're going to talk about being a premier
Speaker 2: cornerback in this league. Early on in the season, DJ
Speaker 2: he got those number one duties and look, he didn't
Speaker 2: shy away from the responsibility of being the number one
Speaker 2: corner on that team. I love his length, I love
Speaker 2: his spiciness, and to me, he's a much better player
Speaker 2: as a pro then it was a prospect in college.
Speaker 2: And that is rare that you see someone at the
Speaker 2: NFL level and say, oh, man, he's a much better
Speaker 2: player than I ever envisioned him being in college. But
Speaker 2: he has that and maybe it's the uniform in those things,
Speaker 2: but he has a toughness and a grittiness to me
Speaker 2: that suits what he's being asked to do in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a theme that we've had throughout this offseason.
Speaker 1: Unintended wasn't something that we were focusing on, really kind
Speaker 1: of drilling home and making a point of Buck's he's
Speaker 1: freaking smart. Man. Like, you're starting to look at these
Speaker 1: guys that have transitioned well and have become really good
Speaker 1: players really young, and I feel like all these positions
Speaker 1: other topics we've had this off season. I feel like, man,
Speaker 1: this is kind of like the off season for us
Speaker 1: of you know, valuing the intelligence of these dudes and
Speaker 1: how that translates. And it's come from conversations with coaches,
Speaker 1: with personnel guys, as well as just our own back
Speaker 1: and forth year as we're looking at rosters.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, intelligence is one of those things that, look,
Speaker 2: you have to value it because it allows you to
Speaker 2: do so much more in the back end. And look,
Speaker 2: it's not only there, but DJ just in general. If
Speaker 2: you have a smart team, like the smart teams are
Speaker 2: the ones that always in it because they don't beat themselves.
Speaker 2: They kind of understand how to eliminate the dbos that
Speaker 2: don't be at ourselves, things like the turnovers, the blown assignments,
Speaker 2: just the stupid penalties and all that. Smart teams don't
Speaker 2: do that. They just kind of line up and they
Speaker 2: make you earn your way down the field on both
Speaker 2: sides of the ball. And so you're right, there is
Speaker 2: something about the smart player that we have suddenly shown
Speaker 2: an affinity for this offseason.
Speaker 1: Yep, no doubt. All right, let's get to the AFC
Speaker 1: South Bucket Division.
Speaker 2: You know, really well, yeah, really interesting look, man, I
Speaker 2: feel like I understand the buzz around the Houston Texans
Speaker 2: when you continue to look at these personnel groupings. I
Speaker 2: got the Texans, look, I got the Texans first, the
Speaker 2: Tennessee Titans second, the Jaguars third, and then the Indianapolis
Speaker 2: Colts fourth. And for the Texans, it's the combination of
Speaker 2: the experience, the savvy, the athleticism, and then how all
Speaker 2: of the pieces of the puzzle fit together when you
Speaker 2: watch there extingly. There extantly is as advertised years ago
Speaker 2: when he was coming out. Yeah, he's super talented, he
Speaker 2: can get his hands on the ball, he's smart, and
Speaker 2: he is surrounded by, what I say, are guys that
Speaker 2: are really, really, really good at what they're asked to do.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Ward, a leader in the back end, super smart.
Speaker 2: Jaln Petrie another guy who just kind of gets it
Speaker 2: and plays like a professional back there. You've seen Desmond
Speaker 2: King play for years, another VET who just kind of
Speaker 2: understands how to fit within the scheme. And look, Kamari
Speaker 2: last is going to have an opportunity to play and
Speaker 2: play early for them. I just think this is a
Speaker 2: very talented secondary and Demiico Runs is going to have fun,
Speaker 2: kind of mixing up some of the covers things that
Speaker 2: they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had it the same with Houston one. I
Speaker 1: had Tennessee too. I think Tennessee one interesting thing. When
Speaker 1: you look at Tennessee you can kind of see a
Speaker 1: theme here when you look at guys like obviously bringing
Speaker 1: over La Jerious and he was a really good player.
Speaker 1: But with McCreary, Elijah Moulten, Amani Hooker, Chadobia Lucy, those
Speaker 1: guys are all tough man. Those are That's a feisty, physical,
Speaker 1: tough group there in Tennessee. So I kind of like
Speaker 1: the personality that they've they've equipped that room with. So
Speaker 1: I have Tennessee too. I had the Colts three and
Speaker 1: I had your Jags four. Interesting thing on the Colts,
Speaker 1: but Juji Brents is the second round pick, is the
Speaker 1: highest pick that they have in their secondary. So we
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, our buddy Gus Bradley, and we
Speaker 1: think about coaching staff and almost, I don't want to say,
Speaker 1: you get punished for being a really good coach, but
Speaker 1: you get hey, you can make it work. We got
Speaker 1: athletes and maybe we bring in some raw guys, some
Speaker 1: mid round picks. Let's get the most out of them.
Speaker 1: They've been able to do that without dedicating a ton
Speaker 1: of resources there.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think what it is if we
Speaker 2: do that same exercise and we look at their front
Speaker 2: how many of those guys that are playing along.
Speaker 1: The front all ones?
Speaker 2: Yeah. What what they've done is they've said, like like
Speaker 2: Leslie talked about Leslie Fraser talks about, Hey, man, I've
Speaker 2: really invest in the front end in the back end
Speaker 2: because I can I can mask some of the flaws
Speaker 2: of the back end by being really dominant at the
Speaker 2: point of attack. And until you pointed it out, didn't
Speaker 2: realize that. Man, they got all on at the point
Speaker 2: of Attech pretty much like they're dealing with Quinny pay
Speaker 2: and the Forest Buckner and lay out to Lasu like
Speaker 2: there's three number ones right there. Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look o Dangbo if he doesn't have the
Speaker 1: injury come under that draft would have been one. Yes,
Speaker 1: I got him in what second round? So Yeah, they've
Speaker 1: invested resources. They're excansion to see how the different teams
Speaker 1: do it. How about the AFC West Park.
Speaker 2: So AFC West, I go to Kansas City Chiefs, the
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Charters, I have the Denver Broncos, then the
Speaker 2: Las Vegas Raiders same.
Speaker 1: That's the first time in a minute we are literally identical.
Speaker 2: And for me, the Kansity Chiefs is the luxury of
Speaker 2: being able to really develop their defensive backs that has
Speaker 2: allowed them to move on from a Lugerious Sneak lagerious sneak.
Speaker 2: Any other building, they would have overpaid to keep him
Speaker 2: because he played so well within the system, but because
Speaker 2: the Chiefs have had so much success with their young defenders,
Speaker 2: they've been able to move on and continue to do it.
Speaker 2: And we talked about it. We talked about on the
Speaker 2: podcast with Leslie Frazier. Trim mc duffy is a bona
Speaker 2: fide star and we had the conversation about smarts, instincts,
Speaker 2: intelligence and how that fits chick chick chick, chick chick
Speaker 2: to check when it comes to Trent McDuffie. And it's
Speaker 2: one of the reasons why they're able to do a
Speaker 2: bunch of different things in Steve Spagnulo's defense, because every
Speaker 2: defended that they have in the back end is a
Speaker 2: high IQ player, very instinct the player that allows you
Speaker 2: to really open up the playbook.
Speaker 1: So I may ask you this question. If we just
Speaker 1: had a dB draft, just put all the dbs in
Speaker 1: the pool, so you can take anybody you want. Is
Speaker 1: there a chance that Trent McDuffie's the first pick?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And this is why. And this doesn't have
Speaker 2: anything to do with Sauce Gardner, but with Trem McDuffie,
Speaker 2: you get a two for one. I know I got
Speaker 2: an a plus nickel player, but I also know I
Speaker 2: have someone that can really excel on the island if
Speaker 2: need be. I can't say that for any other corner
Speaker 2: up in that top elk in terms of being a
Speaker 2: plus outside and inside and knowing that, Yeah, I can
Speaker 2: talk about like we talked about Jalen Ramsey and all that,
Speaker 2: but I will say this, he's in the twilight, he's
Speaker 2: in the back nine of his career. Trim McDuffie is
Speaker 2: just getting into his prime. So that's why I would
Speaker 2: take Trim McDuffie. Like at the top of the board.
Speaker 2: When it comes to these corners.
Speaker 1: I just struggle to find out what he can't do,
Speaker 1: play inside, play outside. You mean to tell me if
Speaker 1: they had injuries, who you couldn't go back there and
Speaker 1: play safety? If you play anywhere on the defense, cover, tackle,
Speaker 1: blitz the intelligence like I don't know what the knock
Speaker 1: is there, like what he doesn't possess. And that's why
Speaker 1: I'm just like, man, it's yeah, And you talk to
Speaker 1: folks around the league, they know how good he is.
Speaker 1: So I'm with you on Casey. I had the exact
Speaker 1: same order the Chargers. I mentioned it. I think I
Speaker 1: mentioned it a little while ago. But a Sante Samuel
Speaker 1: with all the different looks they're going to give up
Speaker 1: front with Jesse Minner and if they can get home
Speaker 1: with the pressure. They have those three pass rushers off
Speaker 1: the edge with Bosa Mack and with tweet Polo two,
Speaker 1: Sante Samuel can play. He can play top down and
Speaker 1: just use his eyes. He's going to pick off a
Speaker 1: zillion balls. Now, he might give up some plays, but
Speaker 1: he is going to be like his dad and he's
Speaker 1: going to make a ton of plays on the football
Speaker 1: provided they can have that consistent pressure. So he could
Speaker 1: be one of those guys ends up in the Pro
Speaker 1: Bowl this year. Derwin James. They'll get him back on track.
Speaker 1: It looks like his confidence is is sky high. Bringing
Speaker 1: back Lowie Gilman, who's kind of like the the the
Speaker 1: control officer back there with all the communication, so some
Speaker 1: other issues, you know, corners, those other corner spots. They
Speaker 1: need some guys to step up. But that's why I
Speaker 1: had them too. And then you look at the Broncos
Speaker 1: with Sir Tannas is still you know, as good as
Speaker 1: there is at the corner position, and the Raiders. I
Speaker 1: like a couple of their pieces, Jack Jones with the
Speaker 1: plays he made last year, Nate Hobbs, feisty, tough, uh,
Speaker 1: Travan merrick Is has been a solid player. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think they're the they're the clear fourth in this group.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, look, they have some really good players, but yeah,
Speaker 2: they're they're backing it up and they have the abible
Speaker 2: to do it because we saw those guys play well
Speaker 2: down the stretch for them. But in terms of just
Speaker 2: pure talent, I do think they fall behind the rest
Speaker 2: of the pack in their division.
Speaker 1: Let's say, quick break, we come back, we'll knock out
Speaker 1: the NFC all right, buck, Let's get to the NFC here,
Speaker 1: NFC East.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was actually much harder than I thought DJ
Speaker 2: when it came to ranking them, because they're talented or
Speaker 2: notable names, but I don't know if their games still
Speaker 2: match the name brand value that we hear on the surface.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go Cowboys, Eagles Commanders, then the New
Speaker 2: York Giants. I go with the Cowboys just because, like
Speaker 2: win in doubt, always tend to favor guys to get
Speaker 2: their hands on the ball, right and so in the
Speaker 2: back end they have two guys that specialize in getting
Speaker 2: their hands on the ball, and Doron Bland and Druman Diggs.
Speaker 2: The problem with that some would say that they're a
Speaker 2: bit of a double agent, meaning that as much as
Speaker 2: many plays as they make for the Cowboys, they surrendered
Speaker 2: to the opponent. And can you rein them in in
Speaker 2: a discipline defense that you don't want to allow the
Speaker 2: big plays because remember, Mike Zimmer is a lot different
Speaker 2: than dan Quinn. Dan Quinn is a great coach, but
Speaker 2: dan Quinn allowed those guys to kind of play to
Speaker 2: their personality. Mike Zimmer is not going to go for that.
Speaker 2: So I got them first, But I'm admit I got
Speaker 2: an asterisk back because I'm a little worried about Ron
Speaker 2: Blandon Diggs being guys that can hold it down, down,
Speaker 2: down after down without surrendering the big play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had the exact same order, So second division
Speaker 1: in a row here where we agree. But I will
Speaker 1: say this, at the end of the year, if we
Speaker 1: were to re rank these the performance of the rookies
Speaker 1: will determine the order of the of the secondaries. When
Speaker 1: you look at it with the Giants with Tyler Nuban
Speaker 1: one of the best safeties in the draft class, Drew
Speaker 1: Phillips one of the best nickels in the draft class,
Speaker 1: those guys are both going to play a lot for them.
Speaker 1: You look at the Eagles, they tried to address that
Speaker 1: secondary with two picks Quenon Mitchell in the first round.
Speaker 1: They came back traded up for Cooper de john there
Speaker 1: in the second round. So they're going to have a
Speaker 1: couple guys. And then for the Commanders, Sanders still, who's
Speaker 1: one of Red Star of the Red Stars, like leadership,
Speaker 1: all that stuff, playmaking, intelligence, toughness. He's going to man
Speaker 1: the nickel position for them out of Michigan and Washington.
Speaker 1: So I think how all those guys play, that'll shake
Speaker 1: up the order a little bit of what that looks like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, Like you need your young players to play
Speaker 2: and play well, and this is the league where we're
Speaker 2: seeing DJ. We mentioned it like there's so many young
Speaker 2: guys that are being counted on to play prominent roles
Speaker 2: throughout the league and the secondary that we won't know
Speaker 2: how good these teams are until we get seven, eight
Speaker 2: games in and these guys get enough experience to be
Speaker 2: able to really play at a higher level. But you're
Speaker 2: right though, like the young guys are going to determine
Speaker 2: how well these teams play down the stretch.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to the NFC North.
Speaker 2: Another tough conversation, and right now, I have a Chicago,
Speaker 2: Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago. Because you talk about Jaalen
Speaker 2: Johnson being able to be a stud player. I am
Speaker 2: a believer in Kevin Byron, in the system that allows
Speaker 2: him to be a sea ball get ball player, Matt
Speaker 2: Eberflus taking over kind of doing some of those things.
Speaker 2: To me, it works out. And I'll say keep an
Speaker 2: eye on Tyreek Stevenson. I kind of liked him when
Speaker 2: he was coming out. Yeah, I think he's tough, he's physical,
Speaker 2: he plays to that brand and on a team that
Speaker 2: is all about hustle and sweat equity. He is the
Speaker 2: worker bee that you prefer to have in.
Speaker 1: The back end. Yeah, I had the same one, I
Speaker 1: had the same four. I flipped two and three. I
Speaker 1: had Detroit two, I had Green Bay three Detroit. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: this is a young group in the secondary. When you
Speaker 1: talk about resources, they've put some resources in there. So
Speaker 1: they've done a nice job. They got a couple of
Speaker 1: my favorite corners in the draft. When you go to
Speaker 1: Missouri and Alabama and get two of the top corners
Speaker 1: in this draft class, that helps. So anxious to see
Speaker 1: how those rookies play. Kirby Joseph been a ball magnet
Speaker 1: early on. Brian Branch. They've got a lot of good
Speaker 1: young pieces that kind of all fit together. Carlton Davis
Speaker 1: now comes over. So they've tried to address the secondary here,
Speaker 1: both in the draft and in the veteran portion of
Speaker 1: the offseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the thing about the Detroit Lions is I
Speaker 2: will give Aaron Glynn a ton of credit in terms
Speaker 2: of shifting gears and switching his styles based on what
Speaker 2: he had. I know AG for a long time. AG
Speaker 2: wants to play man de man. They want to challenge guys.
Speaker 2: They want to make it very, very difficult for quarterbacks
Speaker 2: to fit the ball in the tight windows, but he
Speaker 2: didn't have the personnel, so they had to morph and
Speaker 2: be a little more zone centric. This offseason, they went
Speaker 2: all in on getting man de man guys. And what
Speaker 2: I loved about like the guys that they landed in
Speaker 2: the drift about Arnold and Rick Shaw and those guys,
Speaker 2: like being able to challenge. I mean, you just talk
Speaker 2: about being able to line up and kind of come
Speaker 2: after folks. I like that. I just like being able
Speaker 2: to go and get it. And I think Taron Arnold's
Speaker 2: going to be a guy who has an opportunity to
Speaker 2: really get after.
Speaker 1: A couple guys for the Packers keep an eye on
Speaker 1: in training, a couple big physical guys at the safety
Speaker 1: position with Ola Dappo from Oregon State and then Evan Williams.
Speaker 1: Both those guys to me big physical players. They took
Speaker 1: Bullard in the second round, who I thought could be
Speaker 1: a nickel or free You can use them in a
Speaker 1: lot of different spots out of Georgia. So they got
Speaker 1: three guys added to their young mix, and they're a team.
Speaker 1: When you talk about resources, you see a lot of
Speaker 1: high picks there, especially with Alexander and Stokes. Two ones
Speaker 1: Xavier McKinney coming over there. He was a one, so
Speaker 1: or actually was a two, but was the best safety
Speaker 1: in his draft class. So they've got a lot of
Speaker 1: resources invested in that back end. The Vikings, again, we
Speaker 1: kind of had a theme with them, a little bit
Speaker 1: of a lopsided roster at this point in time offense
Speaker 1: to defense. NFC Southbrook, Yeah, so NFC.
Speaker 2: South Look I had at New Orleans, Tampa, Atlanta, in Carolina,
Speaker 2: New Orleans. Really the thing that tips it is really
Speaker 2: just the experience. I can't say that all of these
Speaker 2: experienced players are playing at what we call a blue
Speaker 2: chip level, but I think their experience allows them to
Speaker 2: collectively play better than maybe the talent would suggest on paper.
Speaker 2: Anytime you have a corner like a Marshawn Latimore that
Speaker 2: can play, you have a ballhawk and Tyren Matthew who,
Speaker 2: even though he can no longer run like he once
Speaker 2: used to, he's always just kind of around the action.
Speaker 2: But to me, the guy that is the lynch fin
Speaker 2: is Alante Taylor, and I liked him coming out. I
Speaker 2: thought he was a really pure nickel when we watched
Speaker 2: him and evaluated him coming out of Tennessee. He is
Speaker 2: kind of slided into that role and with Paulson Adebo
Speaker 2: also kind of growing. I think the Sayings have the
Speaker 2: making is a really good secondary.
Speaker 1: Yep, this is a jumbled division here. I ended up
Speaker 1: having Atlanta one on the heels of the Terrell Baits combination. There.
Speaker 1: What those two guys bring to the table. I think
Speaker 1: they're excellent. So I had them one. I had the
Speaker 1: Bucks two. Again, Bucks have had some guys come and go,
Speaker 1: but they know how to evaluate this position. They've got
Speaker 1: a really good group there, the Saints three, the Panthers four,
Speaker 1: and the Panthers four. This might be one of the
Speaker 1: better parts of their team. It's not a bad secondary.
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of good pieces there. So I thought,
Speaker 1: overall division wise, that one was tough to sort out
Speaker 1: because I think they're pretty even. And again, I think
Speaker 1: the division overall's pretty even, and that's reflected there in
Speaker 1: the secondary. How about go ahead?
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm with you there. And I think the
Speaker 2: thing about the Carolina look, they need a number one
Speaker 2: corner to be available all the time. If he's available
Speaker 2: to change is the way that we evaluate that unit.
Speaker 1: NFC West to round us up here.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is a challenging one, but I'm gonna go back.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with Seattle. I'm gonna go with the
Speaker 2: San Francisco forty nine ers. Then I'm gonna go with
Speaker 2: the La Rams and the Airline Cards. And the reason
Speaker 2: the Seattle Seahawks get into the mix is Leslie Fraser
Speaker 2: was very optimistic about what they have and Reek Wooling,
Speaker 2: and I'm optimistic and not only Riek Wiland, but how
Speaker 2: about Devin Witherspoon and what he brings to the table
Speaker 2: with Julian Love and I know ray Shon Jinks. We
Speaker 2: both know Rashaan jink is personally. Look, he's a playmaker,
Speaker 2: and so you put him in a defense that is
Speaker 2: going to allow him to have some freedoms to go
Speaker 2: go get after the ball, then just go make plays.
Speaker 2: They're gonna do it his team in Seattle. Look, it's
Speaker 2: not the leason to boom, but they certainly are going
Speaker 2: to be a lockdown unit in the back end.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I had Seattle one, I had San
Speaker 1: Francisco two, I had Arizona three, and I had the
Speaker 1: Rams four. Three and four to me was really really close,
Speaker 1: and I ended up going with Arizona. A couple reasons here.
Speaker 1: I love the young guys that they have. Max Melton
Speaker 1: was one of my favorite players out of Rutgers. They
Speaker 1: got in the second round. Again, they had so many
Speaker 1: draft picks. When we go through all these position groups,
Speaker 1: they're going to rely on a lot of these rookies.
Speaker 1: But he's in the mix. You got Taylor Demerson who
Speaker 1: they got in the fourth round, who can make a
Speaker 1: lot of plays in the back end. We'll see if
Speaker 1: he can get in the mix there. Elijah Jones, Jaden Davis,
Speaker 1: a couple more rookie corners. You know, Buddha Baker feels
Speaker 1: like he's been in the league for one hundred years still.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just seventeen when he came to the league,
Speaker 1: but it feels like so much longer than that. But
Speaker 1: I like their good young pieces there. Garrett Williams of
Speaker 1: Talented Nickel at of Syracuse that they got in the
Speaker 1: third round in the previous year. So I think them
Speaker 1: and the Rams, I think the benefit of that is
Speaker 1: they've got two really good teaching staffs. They've got a
Speaker 1: lot of young players, and we'll see, you know, how
Speaker 1: they continue to grow and develop. Also, a big fan
Speaker 1: of Quentin Lake, who we got to know a little
Speaker 1: bit in the offseason and we got a chance to
Speaker 1: visit with him. I think that's a big year for
Speaker 1: him with the Rams as he kind of emerges as
Speaker 1: a good young player to go along with Camp Kitchens,
Speaker 1: who they've got in the third round. So again, very close,
Speaker 1: very close there. But I do think there's a gap
Speaker 1: between the first two Seattle San Francisco, and then I
Speaker 1: think after that you can play around with the Cardinals
Speaker 1: and the Rams in terms of who you like better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, look, the gap is there, But at the beginning,
Speaker 2: I believe this goes back to the conversation that we've
Speaker 2: had with Leslie. Whatever. If they can get this Seattle
Speaker 2: secondary to play at a high level, this is going
Speaker 2: to push them back into that conversation, not only when
Speaker 2: in the division, kind of get into mix, maybe do
Speaker 2: some damage in the postseason.
Speaker 1: No doubt. All right, well that's going to do it
Speaker 1: for us. We're going to come back tomorrow. Another episode
Speaker 1: will be a shorter episode where we will rank the
Speaker 1: head coaches and we'll have a summary of this little
Speaker 1: project that we took on here. So be on the
Speaker 1: look out for that. We'll see it next time. Right
Speaker 1: here on move the stick m