Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast, the You You Got What I Need? Edition,
Speaker 1: As my broadcast partner Dave Lapham joins me to discuss
Speaker 1: the Bengals biggest needs going into the draft. He'll rank
Speaker 1: them from number five to number one. Also coming up
Speaker 1: on this edition, we'll hear from Bengals President Mike Brown
Speaker 1: on the great Forest Greg who passed away last week
Speaker 1: at the age of eighty five. And in our fun
Speaker 1: fact segment, I'll visit with a two hundred and fifteenth
Speaker 1: pick in the nineteen eighty seven NFL Draft who became
Speaker 1: a starter on the Bengal second Super Bowl team and
Speaker 1: later an outstanding NFL broadcaster. All of that is straight ahead,
Speaker 1: but first, here's a quick reminder that you can have
Speaker 1: the latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
Speaker 1: or computer by some scribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play,
Speaker 1: or pod Bean. It's the greatest invention since auto correction,
Speaker 1: that useful tool commonly found on computer keyboards and smartphones
Speaker 1: to fix spelling errors. It's almost always helpful, except when
Speaker 1: I reach out to my friends the Mortons and call
Speaker 1: them the morons. Now, let's get to football. Last week,
Speaker 1: we learned of the passing of one of the greatest
Speaker 1: figures in Bengal's history, Forrest Greg. He was a Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame player, a nine time Pro Bowl offensive tackle
Speaker 1: with the Green Bay Packers and Dallas Cowboys, who was
Speaker 1: named to the NFL seventy fifth Anniversary Team. Green Bay
Speaker 1: coach Vince Lombardi once called Forrest the best player I
Speaker 1: ever coached. He came to Cincinnati in December of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine at the age of forty six, after the
Speaker 1: team had gone four and twelve under Homer Rice. Two
Speaker 1: seasons later, the Bengals were twelve and four and on
Speaker 1: their way to their first Super Bowl. Over the years,
Speaker 1: I've talked to Bengals President Mike Brown on several occasions
Speaker 1: about Forrest Greg. Here are a few of the questions
Speaker 1: and answers. Today we're going to look at some of
Speaker 1: the great coaches, head coaches, and assistant coaches in Bengals history.
Speaker 1: With Mike Brown. Let's start with Forrest Greg. When I
Speaker 1: say that name, what immediately comes to mind probably for
Speaker 1: me something altogether different than for the normal fans. Forrest
Speaker 1: and I are good friends. But we were friends when
Speaker 1: he was here. He is still a good friend. He's retired.
Speaker 1: He lives out in Colorado Springs, Barbara, and he The
Speaker 1: thing about Forrest as a coach that sticks as in
Speaker 1: my mind is how he was perceived by the players.
Speaker 1: He had been a great player himself. He presented a
Speaker 1: daunting presence. He was a big, powerful man, and even
Speaker 1: the players would have thought twice about challenging him in
Speaker 1: any way physically, including He was thought of as a
Speaker 1: disciplinarian by the players, as a hard taskmaster, and he
Speaker 1: was privately anything but that. He was a sweet, gentle person.
Speaker 1: I'm very fond of him. But he did a great
Speaker 1: job for us. He got us to the Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: and really it's a shame that we didn't win that game,
Speaker 1: and my heart of hearts, we were the better team
Speaker 1: that day, but we managed to fumble the ball away
Speaker 1: and lose. I think of Forrest a lot, and I've
Speaker 1: tried to explain that it goes beyond just the coaching part.
Speaker 1: I read Forest Gregg's biography recently, and he described coming
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati to interview for the head coaching job. Took
Speaker 1: place at your father's house and three people were there, Forrest,
Speaker 1: your dad, and you. What do you remember about that meeting?
Speaker 1: I hate to tell you nothing, but I remember Forrest
Speaker 1: so very well. He is a dear friend. When he
Speaker 1: coached here, we were social friends. Barbara, Forrest and Nancy
Speaker 1: and I and our friend friends Jack and Lynn Schiff
Speaker 1: would go out every Friday night and we had wonderful
Speaker 1: times together. It wasn't anything fancy, but it was just
Speaker 1: good fun for middle aged people, which is what we
Speaker 1: were then. I have a fondness for for Ust that
Speaker 1: runs deep within me. He was a very successful coach here.
Speaker 1: He had a presence about him. The players respected him.
Speaker 1: They jumped when he said boo, and that was good.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned your friendship because he mentioned something
Speaker 1: in his book. I have a hard time believing he said,
Speaker 1: the two of you once went to see the movie Porkies.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? I do. It was a lousy
Speaker 1: movie in my fad, Jack shiffliked, which I used reflected
Speaker 1: on his standards. That was the kind of thing that
Speaker 1: we used to do together, Forrest, Jack and our wives
Speaker 1: and me. It was fun. The Bengals have had nine
Speaker 1: head coaches prior to Zach Taylor and Forrest Gregg has
Speaker 1: the highest career winning percentage. Time to turn our attention
Speaker 1: to the NFL Draft. It gets under way next Thursday,
Speaker 1: April twenty fifth, and the Bengals have eleven selections, including
Speaker 1: number eleven overall. Here's hoping they do as well as
Speaker 1: the Houston Texans did in two thousand and eleven when
Speaker 1: they selected J. J. Watt with eleventh overall pick. So
Speaker 1: what are the Bengals biggest needs? I asked my broadcast
Speaker 1: partner Dave Lapham to count them down. Lap Today, we're
Speaker 1: really going to start building up to the draft by
Speaker 1: looking at the Bengals biggest needs. I have asked you
Speaker 1: to come up with your top five and we are
Speaker 1: going to build up from the fifth biggest need to
Speaker 1: the biggest need. So let's get started with Dave Lapham's
Speaker 1: number five biggest need leading up to the draft. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I was thinking outside cornerback, you know, for
Speaker 1: you can never have enough of those, But due to
Speaker 1: Mark Walton's problems in him being released from the team,
Speaker 1: I think maybe the fifth need might be a running
Speaker 1: back at some point, not early in the draft, but
Speaker 1: addressed that running back position with maybe one or more
Speaker 1: of their multiple six round picks that they've got, because
Speaker 1: you know, Joe Mixon led the AFC and rushing obviously,
Speaker 1: and you knock on wood that he stays totally healthy.
Speaker 1: Giovanni Bernard's starting to get up there a little bit
Speaker 1: in terms of life expectancy of a running back, and
Speaker 1: he's had, you know, some injury history. So I'd probably
Speaker 1: go with the running back position, maybe at number five
Speaker 1: now based on what took place with Mark Walton and
Speaker 1: and I really do think that Zach Taylor sent a message,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think a very positive one to
Speaker 1: his football team basically, you know, loose translation, you guys
Speaker 1: that are out there doing things right and working toward uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the common goal and it's all about us,
Speaker 1: as his slogan can't be about an individual, you know,
Speaker 1: in his mind, Mark Walton didn't fit that and let
Speaker 1: him go. So I feel the same way about Vontez.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that more football. I think I
Speaker 1: think it ended up being more football. You know. I
Speaker 1: think it's interesting when when you're in a situation when
Speaker 1: a new coaching staff comes in, I think every player
Speaker 1: and I asked Aj Green this earlier in the locker room.
Speaker 1: You know, as great as you are, do you still
Speaker 1: feel like I'm back at square one? Because it's a
Speaker 1: new evaluation by new eyes. And of course you knew
Speaker 1: AJ was going to answer like like that, Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, but he's a true professional. But sometimes when
Speaker 1: coaches that have been around a long time with players
Speaker 1: look at a guy on tape, they're not looking at
Speaker 1: how he's playing. As much as they like him. There's
Speaker 1: such a relationship there that a john just how he's playing,
Speaker 1: and a fresh set of ice come in and they
Speaker 1: put the tape on and what, you know, one set
Speaker 1: of coaches thought was a good play or adequate play.
Speaker 1: Another set of coaches might be like what And it's
Speaker 1: because they don't know anything about the guy, nothing about
Speaker 1: his personality. And sometimes that's hard to separate. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to separate, particularly, you know, when you've been around
Speaker 1: a guy for a long time and at some point
Speaker 1: in time he has been productive for you. So that
Speaker 1: that that's an interesting one. But I do think I
Speaker 1: do think that the contribution to the amount of money
Speaker 1: paid Codd Vantes birth would probably a little bit talk
Speaker 1: about a disappointment. Mark Walton did not work out at
Speaker 1: all obvious lead. The off field problems ultimately doomed him
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, but did not produce as a runner or
Speaker 1: as a receiver. And while he contributed on special teams,
Speaker 1: he was not this special team star that we were
Speaker 1: led to believe that he might turn out to be.
Speaker 1: And I wonder if some of these problems are cropped up,
Speaker 1: might have been issues. You know, obviously he was running
Speaker 1: with the wrong crowd. You know, you go to University
Speaker 1: of Miami, there has to be a group of positive
Speaker 1: influences that you can lean on. And all he was
Speaker 1: leaning on was obviously negative influences. Be packing the gun
Speaker 1: he's packing. I mean, come on, and and you're probably
Speaker 1: in the same boat. Dan, I'm you know, I'm approaching
Speaker 1: sixty seven years old. I've never been arrested. Dude was
Speaker 1: arrested three times for three months. Come on, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody in his life has to stay after the first
Speaker 1: mess up? Okay, come on, Mark, you know, let's let's
Speaker 1: straight after number two. It's like, dude, you're not getting this.
Speaker 1: You're not figuring this out. Come on, there's going to
Speaker 1: be an intervention here and then a trifecta. I mean,
Speaker 1: something's wrong there, and I'm more worried about him as
Speaker 1: a person than a football player. Really at this point,
Speaker 1: you go three times in three months, that's a bad
Speaker 1: that's a bad show. Do speeding tickets count where I'm concerned? No,
Speaker 1: not speeding tick. It has it has to be, you know,
Speaker 1: up against the car, spread him, up against the wall,
Speaker 1: spread them. Well. You know one thing we've learned about
Speaker 1: the Bengals in recent years. You can get running backs
Speaker 1: late in the draft or even as undrafted free agents.
Speaker 1: Rex Burkhead was a late pick turned out to be
Speaker 1: a great NFL player. Trey Carson I think would have
Speaker 1: worked out okay as a third running back had he
Speaker 1: stayed with the Bengals long term. So, whether they use
Speaker 1: one of those sixth round picks or potentially earlier or
Speaker 1: obviously they're going to bring in undrafted free agents of
Speaker 1: that position, they're certainly going to add to that position
Speaker 1: group a sixth round pick that I can think of
Speaker 1: that scored a touchdown the Super Bowl. Rex Burkhead, Cincinnati Bengals,
Speaker 1: not bad. I agree with you. You're gonna be able
Speaker 1: to find somebody that that's going to be able to
Speaker 1: make a contribution. From football for sure, no doubt. All right,
Speaker 1: so number five position of need running back? How about
Speaker 1: the number four position of need, probably defensive tackle. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking with Ryan Glasgow with the injury, you just
Speaker 1: never know. He seems like he's coming back tremendously. I
Speaker 1: mean he's and I'm gonna say he is, He's gonna
Speaker 1: come back one hundred percent or maybe even better. That's
Speaker 1: just the kind of guy he is. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: he's got a tremendous work ethic. He's blue collar, lunch pail,
Speaker 1: all those cliches. I mean he basically he turned himself
Speaker 1: down to like right around two hundred and eighty pounds
Speaker 1: to put less stress on his knee as he's rehabbing.
Speaker 1: And I mean he does everything right. He's a smart guy,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a tough football player. But you know,
Speaker 1: you know, Billings has been erratic, has been up and down,
Speaker 1: his play has been spotty. He's a fourth round pick
Speaker 1: coming in, you know, Glasgow nut, you know, a first
Speaker 1: or second round pick, or first day or second day
Speaker 1: pick either. So I mean those guys have panned out.
Speaker 1: But to me, I guess I'd probably wouldn't wouldn't bother
Speaker 1: me if they drafted another interior defensive lineman, more of
Speaker 1: the run stuffer, you know, mentality to go along with
Speaker 1: the geno Atkins of the world. Can you find a
Speaker 1: mammoth guy at that spot, because I guess they've Josh
Speaker 1: Tupo kind of fits that description, but they haven't had
Speaker 1: that immovable, immovable object type of guy in the middle right,
Speaker 1: And that's what you're thinking. And you know, Josh is
Speaker 1: one of those kind of guys. He's he's he's hard
Speaker 1: to knock off the ball, He's got really good balance.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a he's a big man obviously. Um,
Speaker 1: but somebody of that ilk for sure, I could see them, um,
Speaker 1: you know, as there's their fourth need maybe going in
Speaker 1: that area. All right, running back, defensive tackle, what's next?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking you may have to think about
Speaker 1: a tight end. You know, Um, obviously you have the
Speaker 1: tight end you lose Tyler Croft, uh to the to
Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills, Tyler or Effort. You know, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: is this the year where it's finally gonna football? Gods
Speaker 1: are gonna leave alone and he can stay healthy because
Speaker 1: you know we talked earlier in the in the day
Speaker 1: with him about this um. This offense potentially that is
Speaker 1: being assembled is going to be very tight end friendly,
Speaker 1: and having a weapon like him, you make your offense
Speaker 1: tight end friendly because he's he's basically you know, I
Speaker 1: think tight ends of loose interpretation of what he gives you.
Speaker 1: He can he can play in the slide, he can
Speaker 1: play in the widest receiver in the formation. He runs
Speaker 1: routes like a wide receiver. The dude is a big
Speaker 1: wide out, is what he is. He can run the
Speaker 1: route tree as well as a lot of wide receivers
Speaker 1: in the National Football League. Plus he could win healthy.
Speaker 1: He can still you know, block at the end of
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage. So I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: think you're always uh, you know, looking for an insurance
Speaker 1: policy there shrek. Obviously, you know he got hurt down
Speaker 1: the stretch. C J. Zama got his got his deal done.
Speaker 1: But you know, it would not surprise me if they
Speaker 1: go for a tight end somewhere in the middle of
Speaker 1: the late rounds of the drafts as a need. At
Speaker 1: that point, I think they've got to the Other thing
Speaker 1: about Eifford is not only is it impossible to know
Speaker 1: how many games he's going to play because of his
Speaker 1: injury history. But it's only a one year deal, so
Speaker 1: who knows what's going to happen. What if he stays
Speaker 1: healthy and has a thousand yards in fifteen touchdowns exactly?
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a show me year. And he
Speaker 1: has shown me a year last year and obviously had
Speaker 1: the tragic injury. It's another show me year. And if
Speaker 1: it goes the other way and he shows the league,
Speaker 1: it don't be a hot commodity, no question about it. Now,
Speaker 1: they'll always with his injury history, they'll always be like,
Speaker 1: oh jeeves, do we commit those kind of dollars? And
Speaker 1: you know, is the one year of health a blip?
Speaker 1: Isn't an operation? Is? You know, this is the history,
Speaker 1: this is the trend. Is this the anomaly? So teams
Speaker 1: have to make that kind of a decision. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, man, if he puts it together, though it
Speaker 1: has a huge year, Bengals are in good shape. They're
Speaker 1: in high cotton because that that position group. I still
Speaker 1: feel like when the New England Patriots had there are
Speaker 1: two tight ends. Working with with gronk uh in the murderer,
Speaker 1: God Rest his soul. I don't know where he's resting,
Speaker 1: and probably in Hell, but at any rate, Hernand is
Speaker 1: in Gronk. That that was incredible. I mean that that
Speaker 1: was a very very difficult package to deal with. And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, sometimes contrarian thinking and approach can
Speaker 1: be the way to go. Everybody's spreading out now and
Speaker 1: doing all those But if you have two tight ends
Speaker 1: on the football field that are adequate enough blockers, but
Speaker 1: you can put anywhere in your formation and throw it.
Speaker 1: And her name was they had running the ball. I mean,
Speaker 1: the dude was running the ball and everything. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was ridiculous. And if you've got athletic tight ends
Speaker 1: like these guys could be, that could be very very
Speaker 1: interesting for the Bengals. Running back, defensive tackle, and tight end.
Speaker 1: We are up to the bengals number two positional need
Speaker 1: going into the draft. Yeah, I mean, i'd have to
Speaker 1: say offensive line. I'd have to say offensive line and linebacker,
Speaker 1: or you know, kind of one and one A. So
Speaker 1: they're two and one. But you know, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the offensive line. I think at this at this point, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and I do think they're gonna have to
Speaker 1: address it in the draft. Do I think they addressed
Speaker 1: it at number eleven. I really don't because when I
Speaker 1: look at the top guys, every guy has a hole
Speaker 1: in his play. There's not a Munios, there's not a Baselli,
Speaker 1: there's not a like you know, Orlando PACER's not like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, man, they wouldn't make it to eleven anyway.
Speaker 1: But I think I think when they get to eleven,
Speaker 1: there'll be other options on the board besides those tackles
Speaker 1: that they'll have rated higher on their board, because I
Speaker 1: think you're gonna be able to get a quality tackle
Speaker 1: um early two, which you know they're in the early
Speaker 1: stages and even into the third round, so I think
Speaker 1: they're gonna I think they're gonna wait and not not
Speaker 1: necessarily go there at that point. So tackle specifically, not
Speaker 1: just O line in general, but tackle specifically is the
Speaker 1: number two neat I'd say old line, you know, in general,
Speaker 1: highlighted by by the tackle. But I mean there are
Speaker 1: some good guards in this draft. You know, Chris Linstrom
Speaker 1: from Boston College. I think I think it's a pretty
Speaker 1: pretty darn good guard. Jonah Williams can play center or
Speaker 1: guard out of Alabama, and he's like a Clint bowling.
Speaker 1: You could get not just a game, you could get
Speaker 1: four games out of him if you'd kick him out
Speaker 1: to tackle. I think he'd be a heck of a center.
Speaker 1: I think he should be a really good guard, you know.
Speaker 1: I think he hears you a lot of position versatility. Um.
Speaker 1: I think Chris Linstrom from Boston College is another guard that's,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty good quality. I'd say he's a late
Speaker 1: one early too. No, none of these guys are worth
Speaker 1: in eleven in my estimation, but there are a lot
Speaker 1: of guys that are you know, first round, late first,
Speaker 1: early second. You know, all through the second into the
Speaker 1: early third, there's there's a myriad of lineman that they
Speaker 1: can go to. I really think, like we talked about before, Dan,
Speaker 1: this draft fits a lot of a lot of teams
Speaker 1: needs because a lot of teams have needs like the Bengals,
Speaker 1: but the Bengals have front seven, defensive needs and offensive
Speaker 1: line needs. In this draft is really deep at those
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're omega stars at every one of
Speaker 1: the positions, but you know, well passed the first round,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get a damn good football player to address
Speaker 1: those areas where they do have needs and therefore, linebacker
Speaker 1: is the number one need. I think linebacker. You know,
Speaker 1: if there's a position on the team that I think
Speaker 1: they're going to double down on in the draft, I
Speaker 1: think it's going to be linebacker. And like we talked
Speaker 1: about before, you know, the two devons and all of
Speaker 1: this for the eleventh pick of the draft could be
Speaker 1: trump by. In my mind, if there's an edge rusher,
Speaker 1: you take them. If there's an edge rusher that you
Speaker 1: have rated higher, and it might be one of these linebackers.
Speaker 1: You know, some of these they're quote you know, they're
Speaker 1: they're rush guys, but they're in the draft. They're like
Speaker 1: linebackers instead of defensive ends. But I'm talking about an
Speaker 1: edge rush guy because Dan, in this era of throwing
Speaker 1: the football, you know, there are two ways to two
Speaker 1: ways to help prevent it. You're gonna have to hurry
Speaker 1: the quarterback up, make him hurry his reads and hope
Speaker 1: he makes a mistake. The way to do that is
Speaker 1: by a good pass rush. And then to compound that,
Speaker 1: if you have really good options up front, you have
Speaker 1: multiple weapons. They start doubling people. There's less guys that
Speaker 1: they're going to send out in routes. So your coverage
Speaker 1: percentages jump up. So it starts, in my estimation, it
Speaker 1: always starts with a good edge rush or a good
Speaker 1: rush in general upfront, because if you have to keep,
Speaker 1: you know, if you can't get away with ever leaving
Speaker 1: five in, you have to go six, sometimes seven and
Speaker 1: max protect. I mean you've you've lightened the burden in
Speaker 1: the back end immensely, and so's it starts there. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you can get a cover corner, great, but if
Speaker 1: you can get an edge rusher, that is a difference maker.
Speaker 1: I think, I think that trumps everything, even though it
Speaker 1: might not be a clearing need based on how Carl
Speaker 1: Lawson comes back and say, you know, if if if
Speaker 1: you don't find a guy that drops to number eleven,
Speaker 1: you do have Karl Lawson coming back from his torn
Speaker 1: acl exactly exactly. But here's four defensive linemen. I think
Speaker 1: Nick Boss long gone. I think Montes sweat out of
Speaker 1: Mississippi State. I mean, the dude six six two forty
Speaker 1: plus and ran a four four. I'd be surprised if
Speaker 1: he's there. But Jared Allen, excuse me, Josh Allen, Jared
Speaker 1: anlands a quarterback. Josh Allen sixty four two sixty five
Speaker 1: four sixty five forty and he was a fifty fifty
Speaker 1: rush guy at Kentucky. I mean they had him, you know,
Speaker 1: playing true linebacker, seventeen sacks in the SEC. That's production, man.
Speaker 1: I mean, if that guy's there, I'd really think about that.
Speaker 1: At eleven, I'd really be there. Won't be there, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then rush on Gary out of Michigan. That'd be
Speaker 1: my fourth guy. And he might be because watching early
Speaker 1: tape on him, it's like whoa. But last year somebody
Speaker 1: got in his ear and he was playing to survive,
Speaker 1: survive in advance to the draft, and I you know,
Speaker 1: to me, the fact that he didn't get hurt, he's
Speaker 1: fortunate because that's how you do get hurt. But he
Speaker 1: was just getting through it. It looked like to me
Speaker 1: he didn't even look a lot of times like the
Speaker 1: same guy. But this dude man sixty four plus two
Speaker 1: eighty seven four sixty nine. I mean that's that's a
Speaker 1: freakazoid athletically. So if he's there at eleven, you got
Speaker 1: to think about that. If Devin White's there at eleven, boom,
Speaker 1: I'm on him as well. Now, Devin Bush, the other
Speaker 1: Devin He's the one that as I'm looking at him
Speaker 1: and talk to people around the league about him, there's
Speaker 1: a fifty fifty split a lot of some some people
Speaker 1: are like, man, he's just so small, and he is small.
Speaker 1: I mean it's five eleven, two undred thirty pounds, and
Speaker 1: you know, Devin and White runs faster at six arty,
Speaker 1: but he's still plenty fast at four six five. And
Speaker 1: all I can say is, I played against Sam Mills
Speaker 1: in the USFL. I don't care that that that played
Speaker 1: against him just left an everlasting imprint in my mind.
Speaker 1: And it ain't the size of the dog in the fight,
Speaker 1: the size of the fighting the dog. That dude, he
Speaker 1: knew what his limitations were. He knew that he didn't
Speaker 1: want to let you engulf him. And that's what people
Speaker 1: are gonna say, Devin Bush is going to get engulfed
Speaker 1: by these big guys in the NFL. You don't think
Speaker 1: that was his concern in the big ten. He knows
Speaker 1: what his limitations are. He doesn't put himself in a
Speaker 1: position to be taken advantage of like that. You have
Speaker 1: to catch him to engulf him, you know. And I
Speaker 1: mean these guys know, they've always had the quote deficiency
Speaker 1: and they still competed at a high level. I have
Speaker 1: faith that he's going to compete it still at a
Speaker 1: high level. That's why I'm leaning toward even though he
Speaker 1: is undersized going there. But the way all these teams are,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's nickel now anyway, and you want a
Speaker 1: smaller lineman, a linebacker that can cover. That might be
Speaker 1: a smaller linebacker. It's not going to be a big
Speaker 1: dude anyway. I mean now it's hybrid safety slash linebacker.
Speaker 1: You know, oh boy, that's a that's like a big safety,
Speaker 1: that's not a linebacker. But the league is evolved into
Speaker 1: that that's what this guy is. So you know, maybe
Speaker 1: he's not quote your typical man that's a big that's
Speaker 1: a that's a starting inside linebacker in the National Football
Speaker 1: League in this era. He's a he's a really he
Speaker 1: can play outside backer when he's a good nickel backer.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's one of the two backers that you
Speaker 1: could throw out there and play nick You get a
Speaker 1: lot of snaps out of the guy. So I think
Speaker 1: that there's value, you know, still there at number eleven
Speaker 1: um because they end I've chased a lot of small
Speaker 1: linebackers trying to engulf him. Got to catch him first
Speaker 1: in when I watched Michigan games the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: He jumps off the screen big time. The dude. The
Speaker 1: thing about Sam Mills, and this kid has it too.
Speaker 1: Even though you know you think, okay, I might engulf you.
Speaker 1: They have such explosive hip snap. I mean they get
Speaker 1: under your pads because the leverage. I mean, you don't
Speaker 1: have to come off the ball on your knees to
Speaker 1: get under their pads. They're under your pads and they're
Speaker 1: just ill said man, oh, I mean they're exploding on you.
Speaker 1: It's like, man, that was a little dynamite cap that
Speaker 1: just went off. It's unbelievable. It's like you have a
Speaker 1: surge from a guy like that. They know what they're doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's obviously been one of the best
Speaker 1: football players on a great defense until they played Ohio State. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that that the NCAA has had. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's and he was one of the kingpins. So to me,
Speaker 1: I mean, you compete at that level and you still,
Speaker 1: you know, a high high level. I really I really
Speaker 1: liked the guy. It's it's gonna be very interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. As I'm looking at some of the offensive lineman,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of guys there. There are a bunch
Speaker 1: of guys. Um, This Andre Dilly kid from Washington State's
Speaker 1: a little bit of intrigue. Titus Howard, this kid from
Speaker 1: Alabama State, six four over, three hundred pound Alabama State. Though,
Speaker 1: I mean he's he has not played an NFL schedule
Speaker 1: against NFL caliber talent. He's played that division schedule, which
Speaker 1: is what no more than twelve games against lesser, lesser talent.
Speaker 1: But can you project his talent to be successful in
Speaker 1: the league. Heck yeah. Chris Lindstrom from Boston College as
Speaker 1: a guard, Greg Little in Mississippi, you know at the
Speaker 1: tackle position. H Dalton Risner out of Kansas State, you
Speaker 1: know at the tackle position. I think there are these
Speaker 1: are all you know, like late one, early two kind
Speaker 1: of guys, Um, Caleb McGarry out of Washington, Isaiah Prince,
Speaker 1: Ohio State. I mean, these are you know, early second
Speaker 1: round guys or second and third round guys. There are
Speaker 1: There are a ton of offensive linemen. That's why I think,
Speaker 1: you know, when I look at it, unless unless the
Speaker 1: best in the draft has slid to eleven, and that
Speaker 1: number one offensive tackle is better than the second. I'mback,
Speaker 1: or the the third or fourth rush guy or whatever. However,
Speaker 1: have your board in. Every team in the league now
Speaker 1: is in process of in the process of you know,
Speaker 1: stacking their board m by position group and then the
Speaker 1: top ten, top twenty, top fifty players. Nobody's done with
Speaker 1: that equation yet, so that's when you start, you know,
Speaker 1: mixing and matching a little bit. Your top five positional
Speaker 1: needs did not include quarterback. Yeah, I mean to me,
Speaker 1: and it's always that's why it didn't didn't include an
Speaker 1: edge rush guy. But i's that with one of those
Speaker 1: one of those guys is there at eleven. See yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sprinting to the podium. If if Haskins slides to eleven,
Speaker 1: interesting room. Interesting room at that point. If you know
Speaker 1: somebody that they the Bengals had as a first round
Speaker 1: grade slides to you know, their position in the second round.
Speaker 1: You have to discuss them all the time. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not I would not be stunned if
Speaker 1: they take a quarterback, you know, anywhere in the draft.
Speaker 1: If there's a slide, but I'm not sure that there
Speaker 1: will be, it'd be interesting to see. Thanks Lap. Next
Speaker 1: week an annual edition of this podcast that gets downloaded
Speaker 1: as many times as the Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro and
Speaker 1: this is the Daily. How's that for an imitation? We'll
Speaker 1: get laps prediction for the Bengals number one pick next week.
Speaker 1: Now time for a fun facts interview and my guest
Speaker 1: was an eighth round draft pick in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1: One year later, the nineteen eighty eight Super Bowl Bengals
Speaker 1: featured one of the finest secondaries in team history, a
Speaker 1: quartet that earned a memorable nickname, the Swat Team. Tat
Speaker 1: for some fun facts with a guy who has picked
Speaker 1: fortieth on the list of the top fifty retired players
Speaker 1: in Bengals history, Former safety Solomon Wilcot's an eighth round
Speaker 1: draft pick out of Colorado back in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1: Is it true you did not even have a phone
Speaker 1: on draft day? That's very true. You do your homework.
Speaker 1: I had two roommates my senior year in college who
Speaker 1: refused to pay the phone bill, and so I said, well,
Speaker 1: I could go ahead and pay it, but then they're
Speaker 1: gonna use it and run it up every month, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be stuck with a bill. So what I
Speaker 1: did is I went ahead and allowed them to disconnect
Speaker 1: it because the other two wouldn't pay, and I would
Speaker 1: use the phone of my friend who lived across the
Speaker 1: hall from me. And so when we were going through
Speaker 1: the whole draft process, they says, we want your draft
Speaker 1: day phone number. I knew I was going to be
Speaker 1: at my apartment in Boulder, Colorado, but I had to
Speaker 1: give cam Jones's phone number. This the last guy that
Speaker 1: you want to give out his number to control something
Speaker 1: that's so important in your life. But yeah, I gave
Speaker 1: him that number, and I just remember him yelling across
Speaker 1: the hall. He said, Moon, that's what he called me. Moon.
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals are on the phone. And I had to
Speaker 1: had to run over to his apartment and there was
Speaker 1: dick Lebou on the phone. It was one of the
Speaker 1: best phone calls I ever received, and it wasn't even
Speaker 1: on my phone. We're doing Friend Facts with Solomon Wilcox.
Speaker 1: You mentioned dick Lebou. You once said he unlocked the
Speaker 1: mysteries of football in what way? In ways that help
Speaker 1: you to understand what offenses are trying to do to
Speaker 1: you and what you needed to do to stop him,
Speaker 1: or it is something as simple as this. Offenses, they're
Speaker 1: the ones who are on a clock. That quarterback doesn't
Speaker 1: get to hold onto the ball forever. He's got to
Speaker 1: get rid of it, and his receiver has to get
Speaker 1: to the designated point at the time when the quarterback
Speaker 1: expects him to get there, and if he's not there,
Speaker 1: it's an incomplete and if you get there first, you
Speaker 1: get to catch it. It's an interception that the timing
Speaker 1: of the offense, everything is predicated on timing. And as
Speaker 1: a defensive back, your job is just a disrupt timing.
Speaker 1: You don't have to cover the guy all over the
Speaker 1: field like defensive backs believe they have to. All you
Speaker 1: have to do is disrupt timing. You got pass rush
Speaker 1: help you to do that. You got the quarterbacks insecurity
Speaker 1: of getting blitz to help with that, and you get
Speaker 1: to jam the receiver at the line of scrimmage to
Speaker 1: help to prevent timing. So just something as simple as
Speaker 1: that goes such a long way and unlocking a mystery
Speaker 1: of what NFL offenses are all about and what they're
Speaker 1: trying to do to you. We're visiting with Solomon Wilcots
Speaker 1: David Fulcher checked in at number six on the list,
Speaker 1: the highest rated defensive back. And one of the reasons
Speaker 1: why he was so effective in freelancing on defense is
Speaker 1: that you helped cover for him in the secondary. Was
Speaker 1: that instinct on your part or was it very choreographed
Speaker 1: when Fulture does this, I've got to do that. It
Speaker 1: was about knowing that Dave would take chances that Dave
Speaker 1: and he had great instincts. He had not only the
Speaker 1: ability to make it work, he had the instincts to
Speaker 1: be able to do it at a time when the
Speaker 1: offense never thought he would. And I kind of had
Speaker 1: to know. When he started creeping up to the line
Speaker 1: of scream, I say, oh, no, he's blitzing. And he's
Speaker 1: not supposed to blitz. He supposed to cover over here.
Speaker 1: So someone had to cover. And and I just remember
Speaker 1: a few mondays after we would have games and Dick Lebau,
Speaker 1: I mean, he would give it to me. He would
Speaker 1: just and I'm like, oh, coach, I didn't make you
Speaker 1: didn't you didn't complain, you just took it. But I
Speaker 1: remember one one Monday, I went in, I asked coach
Speaker 1: Lebo said, hey, it's just something wrong. Here, am I mistaken?
Speaker 1: David made the mistake, but then you me. He was like,
Speaker 1: that's your job. Your job is to be wherever he's not.
Speaker 1: And he helped me to understand that what kind of
Speaker 1: player David was and how he used David in the defense.
Speaker 1: Ryan Clark, who played for Dick lebo in Pittsburgh, had
Speaker 1: to do the same kind of things. He and I
Speaker 1: would have these conversations. He never knew what Troy Polamalo
Speaker 1: was gonna do. Troy Polamalu in Pittsburgh playing for Dick
Speaker 1: Lebou was the same exact player that David Volcher was
Speaker 1: twenty years prior, playing in the same defense. And so
Speaker 1: that's how Dick Lebou used his strong safety and his
Speaker 1: free safety and finding that that right player, and David
Speaker 1: was that guy now who had instincts an incredible ability
Speaker 1: for a big man to go out and make big plays.
Speaker 1: We're doing fun Facts with Solomon Wilcots. In training camp
Speaker 1: before your second season, Sam White decided to mix things up.
Speaker 1: He took black players and roomed them with white players.
Speaker 1: He took offensive players and roomed them with defensive players.
Speaker 1: What impact did that have? Bruce Rymer's offensive lineman was
Speaker 1: my roommate. I would go. I would visit Eric Thomas.
Speaker 1: I think he was with Joe Walter. Anybody know Joe
Speaker 1: was a grumpy dude. You know, Joe didn't play. But
Speaker 1: Eric is such a jolly guy that he could bring
Speaker 1: out the best in a Joe Walter. But Sam, it worked.
Speaker 1: Sam knew what he was doing. Other than that, I'm
Speaker 1: a defensive back. We don't hang out with offensive lineman.
Speaker 1: And there's no way that a guy from California and
Speaker 1: Eric Thomas is going to hang out with a guy
Speaker 1: from Texas like Walter. So that kind of forward thinking
Speaker 1: it did help us become closer as a team. We
Speaker 1: were able to spend time off the field with one
Speaker 1: another and with guys that we normally would not have
Speaker 1: spent time with. And I just remember Week two we
Speaker 1: went out and played Philadelphia that year. That's the year
Speaker 1: that the Eagles had a great team. Buddy Ryan's the coach.
Speaker 1: They got big Reggie White on the defensive line, Jerome Brown,
Speaker 1: Chris Carter, Might Quick, Randall cunning Hemmy had a great
Speaker 1: team and we went out there and they jumped out
Speaker 1: on us. But I just remember doing that period we
Speaker 1: stuck together, the offensive line started taking over defense, we
Speaker 1: started making plays. We got out of there with a win.
Speaker 1: But I think it was on that day, Week two
Speaker 1: and eighty eight that we really knew that we had
Speaker 1: a chance to be a great team, and we were
Speaker 1: close and we had one another's back no matter what happened,
Speaker 1: and even when we went through some bumpy spots in
Speaker 1: the season, there was never any doubt that we were
Speaker 1: kind of a team of destiny. A couple more questions
Speaker 1: for Solomons. That team goes to Super Bowl twenty three.
Speaker 1: The night before the game, unfortunately, Stanley Wilson had his
Speaker 1: cocaine relapse. You are one of the last people that
Speaker 1: spoke to him before the team found out. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is true. I remember he and Eddie Brown, myself
Speaker 1: and Eric Thomas. We were on the same floor, so
Speaker 1: we got on the elevator together to get ready go
Speaker 1: down to a team meeting, and Stanley at the last
Speaker 1: minutes is as the door was closing, says, I forgot
Speaker 1: my playbook and he shot out and the door closed
Speaker 1: behind him as he went back to his room. We're
Speaker 1: sitting in the meeting room that night, and they said,
Speaker 1: as everyone here Sam ask and I remember Eddie was like, hey,
Speaker 1: Stanley went to go get his playbook. You see old
Speaker 1: be here in the second. So we're waiting five minutes,
Speaker 1: ten minutes. Sam think we gotta get this meeting going.
Speaker 1: Let's start the meeting. But he sent Jim Anderson back
Speaker 1: to go get Stanley. Next thing, you know, maybe fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes later, Sam would tear in his eyes and you know,
Speaker 1: sort of interrupted everyone to say, guys, Stanley couldn't make it.
Speaker 1: And we were like, what are you talking about it.
Speaker 1: He proceeded to tell us about the relapse that Stanley had,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's something that has stuck with me
Speaker 1: for about thirty years, you know, for all this time,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'll talk I talk with Marvin about this.
Speaker 1: I talked with a lot of other NFL coaches about
Speaker 1: when you go to a super Bowl, this is where
Speaker 1: character really counts. This is where all having the right
Speaker 1: people on your team counts. And not that Stanley was
Speaker 1: a bad person, but it's just about understanding that the
Speaker 1: pressure of such a game and of such a moment,
Speaker 1: it's going to reveal all things. I remember Chris Berman
Speaker 1: and I were talking at one super Bowl. We were
Speaker 1: providing coverage and something that happened with one player in Miami,
Speaker 1: and I coined the phrase by saying, you know, you
Speaker 1: can only win the game the day of kickoff, but
Speaker 1: you can lose it between now and kickoff. In other words,
Speaker 1: some players slip out into the night, does something silly,
Speaker 1: and next thing you know that it serves as a
Speaker 1: huge distraction for their team who was trying to get
Speaker 1: ready to play the game of their lives. So that's
Speaker 1: what I remember about it. I do remember a few
Speaker 1: years later, going out to California, I was covering for
Speaker 1: ESPN as a correspondent a case where Stanley Wilson was
Speaker 1: he was gonna get three strikes in year out, so
Speaker 1: he was gonna get life for a robbery for a
Speaker 1: home invasion, and I watched the judge render the verdict.
Speaker 1: I remember writing a letter to the judge of saying
Speaker 1: Stanley never hurt anyone physically, He only hurt himself, and
Speaker 1: I tried to prevail on the judge to not give
Speaker 1: him life. I don't agree with the mandatory prison sentencing,
Speaker 1: and so Stanley Wilson does not deserve to be in
Speaker 1: jail for life for what he did. We all forgiving.
Speaker 1: We love him, but I know what he was one
Speaker 1: heck of a football player. I wish he would had
Speaker 1: played that day. We needed somebody to block Ronnie Lott.
Speaker 1: Last thing for Solomon Wilcots. You're from California. You went
Speaker 1: to Colorado, but you settled in Cincinnati after playing for
Speaker 1: the Bengals. What is it about this team in this
Speaker 1: city that got under your skin? Well, it was interesting
Speaker 1: because when I was drafted, I remember I didn't quite
Speaker 1: know where Cincinnati was. I had never been east of
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River, and so when I came here, I
Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect. But you know, I started
Speaker 1: working for an insurance firm over at Midland American Modern
Speaker 1: Home and I worked there every year during the offseason.
Speaker 1: I worked as an underwriter, worked as a claim adjuster,
Speaker 1: I worked in our HR department. And then when I
Speaker 1: was done playing, I went over to Channel five and
Speaker 1: worked with some really good people there who were great
Speaker 1: to me. I learned so much from them, and I
Speaker 1: don't know that I would still be here had I
Speaker 1: not had the opportunity to work with such good people
Speaker 1: and have them in my life. None of us succeed
Speaker 1: on our own. We need a community of people, and
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be able to at least give
Speaker 1: back to that community in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what makes Cincinnati special. I think
Speaker 1: it is a place that is about community. And I
Speaker 1: think the people here can tell if you're genuine or not.
Speaker 1: They could tell if you are a hard worker, They
Speaker 1: could tell if you're in it for you, or if
Speaker 1: you're in it for the big picture. If you're in
Speaker 1: it for the big picture, it works out. If you're
Speaker 1: in it for you don't go so well. And so
Speaker 1: that's what I love about Cincinnati. And I tell people,
Speaker 1: even when I go back to La, people like, you
Speaker 1: still live in Cincinnati. How could you live there? I said,
Speaker 1: you know what, it's a great place. We don't have traffic.
Speaker 1: I don't have to wait in line at the post office.
Speaker 1: I go to the coffee shop. My girl already has
Speaker 1: my coffee made. He knows me. I just that's what
Speaker 1: I love. That's what I like, and that's what makes
Speaker 1: Cincinnati a special place. I love it. My thanks to
Speaker 1: Solomon Wilcotts, and thank you for downloading this episode of
Speaker 1: the podcast Don't Forget. We'll take an in depth, look
Speaker 1: at the most likely targets at the top of the
Speaker 1: Bengals draft board next week, and get Dave Lapham's first
Speaker 1: round prediction. If you haven't done so already, please subscribe
Speaker 1: on iTunes, stitch, your google Play, or pod Bean, and
Speaker 1: if you have a minute, give it a rating or
Speaker 1: leave a comment. Your feedback has been great, and five
Speaker 1: star ratings help more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Dan Horde and thank you for listening to The Bengals
Speaker 1: Booth podcast.