Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg business Week, Daily reporting from the magazine
Speaker 2: that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies,
Speaker 2: and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance
Speaker 2: and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Weekdaily
Speaker 2: Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 3: All right, we've got a really great guest. We want
Speaker 3: to get right to. Marja Sparrange is with us. He's,
Speaker 3: of course, head of the sixteen billion dollar marketcap automaker.
Speaker 3: We're talking about Rivian. We talk about this company all
Speaker 3: the time with us at Bloomberg Tech sumit here in
Speaker 3: San Francisco, and we have Ed Ludlow, a member of
Speaker 3: our team cost of Bloomberg Technology, who knows this company
Speaker 3: so well. Hey, one thing I want to start with
Speaker 3: Rja is there's a lot going on today. The bromance
Speaker 3: in the White House between Elon and Donald Trump. It
Speaker 3: seems like it's over.
Speaker 4: And it's not going well.
Speaker 3: So I'm just curious have you been able to kind
Speaker 3: of win market share or anything as a result of
Speaker 3: kind of Elon's position at doge and and I'm just
Speaker 3: curious how it might play out here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think I can testimony.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think in general it's the thing has been
Speaker 6: surprising is just how politicize a lot of things have become,
Speaker 6: so electric vehicles become politicized. Specific brands within the electric
Speaker 6: vehicles paced to politicized. And so what we've tried to
Speaker 6: do as a brand, really really focused on is to
Speaker 6: focus on what we stand for, the products, the ratchcotes
Speaker 6: and and you know, there's a famous Michael Jordan quote
Speaker 6: which is we have Republicans, you know, he said Republicans
Speaker 6: and Democrats both by Nikes. And it's the same thing
Speaker 6: with Rivian. So I'll go to Rivian events. I was
Speaker 6: just in New York yesterday, and yeah, there's it's such
Speaker 6: a beautiful mix of backgrounds, perspectives, cultures that are drawn
Speaker 6: to what we're building as a brand. Right and we're
Speaker 6: about to launch what we call it Hard Too, which
Speaker 6: the lower price vehicle starts at forty five thousand dollars,
Speaker 6: and that product will even you know, you can broaden
Speaker 6: the aperture even more.
Speaker 7: And so I think, well, Kars asking is if there's
Speaker 7: net positive effect for you from this environment on sales.
Speaker 5: I think that's what she was asking.
Speaker 7: I think you will benefiting from this environment.
Speaker 4: Test some movement. Have you benefited from it?
Speaker 6: I think there are a lot of customers that are
Speaker 6: looking for brand that they want to connect with, so
Speaker 6: that we're seeing that for sure.
Speaker 8: Sort of on that Thinking about the politics of this
Speaker 8: rare earth, I mean, you and the team have been
Speaker 8: really clear that you've been working to educate the Trump
Speaker 8: administration when it comes to the complexity throround processing rare
Speaker 8: earth here in the US. We did hear from the
Speaker 8: President earlier today after a call with President Chiji and Pang.
Speaker 8: He said there should no longer be any questions respecting
Speaker 8: the complexity of rare Earth's products. Are you still concerned
Speaker 8: about accessibility to rare earth?
Speaker 6: Well, first, I'd say I appreciate that the administration recognizes
Speaker 6: this is an issue that's important, and I think that
Speaker 6: we've done a lot of work and spent a lot
Speaker 6: of time with with administration on this topic. I think
Speaker 6: this is perhaps one of the biggest topics surrounding, you know,
Speaker 6: the trade tensions with China. It's it's well, it's well
Speaker 6: documented that a vast majority of the world's processing for
Speaker 6: these rare metals happens in China. So this is something
Speaker 6: that you know, we're going to continue to be very
Speaker 6: focused on, continue to have concerns about until we.
Speaker 9: Start to see it really move. What's your backup n.
Speaker 6: Which we have many backup playing you can't get access
Speaker 6: to these rarer ifs for some reason ro an extended
Speaker 6: period of time, which are essential in making evs and batteries.
Speaker 9: What do you do?
Speaker 6: So what we've we've done, we've spent time on over
Speaker 6: the last several months, is to build alternative supply chains.
Speaker 6: But they're not they're not elegant because they're not set
Speaker 6: up for scale, and and and a lot of people
Speaker 6: beyond us are also trying to build these alternative supply chains.
Speaker 6: So I think, you know, the hope is that in
Speaker 6: the short to medium term we see this open back up,
Speaker 6: and I think in the long term we're probably going
Speaker 6: to see both investment into building earth capacity outside of
Speaker 6: China and then innovation to remove.
Speaker 9: Rare earths from products.
Speaker 6: You know, so if you take in an electric vehicle,
Speaker 6: the reason this is so important is the motors use
Speaker 6: permanent magnets and then permanent magnets have earth metals, you know,
Speaker 6: things like dysprosium and all those things on the periodic
Speaker 6: table that you forget area. Yeah, but those those earth
Speaker 6: metals are needed in the magnets. But you can create
Speaker 6: electro magnet to power the rotor. You know, the rotors
Speaker 6: is spinning part of the motor. But then you've got
Speaker 6: to get powered to the rotors so that you can
Speaker 6: do it with a brush. You could do it with induction.
Speaker 6: So it's a more complex motor product, but it does
Speaker 6: remove the complexity of global trade.
Speaker 9: Around the area.
Speaker 3: Is that a little time away, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 6: Not gonna it's you can't flip your design over overnight.
Speaker 6: But I would say I think a lot of the
Speaker 6: auto industry is going to start finding innovative ways that
Speaker 6: are perhaps maybe a little more expensive, that reduce the
Speaker 6: reliance on people.
Speaker 7: Wonder how nimble you are there, Like, do you remember
Speaker 7: when we first met seven years ago with respect your
Speaker 7: suppliers really wouldn't engage with you because of scale. So
Speaker 7: if you have had to pivot a little bit because
Speaker 7: of policy, particularly for planning for our two, have you
Speaker 7: been able to a get your expires to listen to
Speaker 7: you and be effect to change what's changed.
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, we've talked about the slide. I mean,
Speaker 6: our relationship with suppliers, a leverage we have with those
Speaker 6: supliers is so much stronger today with our two and
Speaker 6: what's to come than what we had, you know, in
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen or twenty twenty, even twenty eighteen. But I'd
Speaker 6: say the thing that's really helpful for us in our too.
Speaker 6: So it's not as if this is a surprise we saw,
Speaker 6: you know, if you're going into summer of last year,
Speaker 6: we saw some of these tensions already rising between the
Speaker 6: United States and China, and that was as we were
Speaker 6: planning for and sourcing our two. So we contemplated and
Speaker 6: in many ways anticipated a lot of these situations right
Speaker 6: now with in terms of tariffs, in terms of trade
Speaker 6: restriction is happening.
Speaker 9: So in the medium to long term, it's we're pretty
Speaker 9: well covered.
Speaker 6: In the short to medium term, you know, if things
Speaker 6: get shut off, that's really challenging. And so that's where
Speaker 6: I think the rare challenge is that if if this
Speaker 6: this happens where it's off, it just creates a lot
Speaker 6: of pressure on a very thin non China supply chain.
Speaker 7: I still think there's a lot of interest in Rivian.
Speaker 7: What I hear is there's also a lot of interest
Speaker 7: in also your your micro mobility spin off. Would you
Speaker 7: consider it kind of de risking yourselves a little bit
Speaker 7: by allowing outside investors to write you a check into
Speaker 7: that venture and then get you some capital, or de
Speaker 7: risk your own balance sheet in that respect.
Speaker 6: So we spun this micromability uh portion of Rivian out
Speaker 6: and we actually raised outside capitals. We brought okay, we
Speaker 6: brought one hundred and five million dollars in at the
Speaker 6: start of the.
Speaker 9: Year, which is from a clips which is from a Clipse.
Speaker 6: Exactly right, and so it's now independently financed from Ribbon
Speaker 6: and it's you know, it's a really exciting set of products.
Speaker 6: We're to show those products in the fall.
Speaker 7: But we'd the venture to look at even further outside
Speaker 7: happy toil to get going a little bit.
Speaker 6: We could, yeah, we could, but we're really happy with
Speaker 6: where it is. It's it's it's exciting to build a
Speaker 6: new business with the strength of all the Rivian technologies.
Speaker 3: That is starting right, I say thirty seconds at the
Speaker 3: end to wrap up our So with everything that's going
Speaker 3: on from the administration kind of push back. It feels
Speaker 3: like it gets alternative energy and ebs. Do you think
Speaker 3: it's a real setback or things will keep moving and
Speaker 3: forgive me, it's just about thirty.
Speaker 6: S thirty seconds, all right, go Look, I think I
Speaker 6: think there's a lot of noise in the short term,
Speaker 6: but the end state is still really clear. The world's
Speaker 6: going to electrify, We're going to move towards sustainable, carbon
Speaker 6: neutral transportation, and the countries and the businesses that focus
Speaker 6: on the future of state are the ones that are
Speaker 6: going to be participants in the long term. And so
Speaker 6: you know, we talk about this often with demonstration, which
Speaker 6: is the importance of US companies having technical leadership, production
Speaker 6: capacity around these these these and make sure we're there.
Speaker 3: You did it, Thurdy, Thank you so much. Great way
Speaker 3: for us to wrap up this hour. Urgie Scars, thank
Speaker 3: you of course at Rivian and of course our Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch
Speaker 2: us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern
Speaker 2: Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: All right, folks got to say that one of the
Speaker 3: things we are talking about a lot today is kind
Speaker 3: of the back and forth that's going on between President
Speaker 3: Trump and Elon Musk. It's a battle on social media,
Speaker 3: and I will just say it's almost hard to keep
Speaker 3: up with the amount of tweets that are going back
Speaker 3: and forth. What we do know, and what we know
Speaker 3: the Bloomberg universe cares about is that Tesla shares are
Speaker 3: now down about sixteen percent. Now, one of the key
Speaker 3: things is the President has basically said one of the
Speaker 3: ways to save money is cut back on the contracts
Speaker 3: that are given to all of the entities that are
Speaker 3: within the Elon Musk universe. I will say, here's one
Speaker 3: tweet Elon Musk saying, ask you, is it time to
Speaker 3: create a new political party in America that actually represents
Speaker 3: the eighty percent in the middle?
Speaker 4: Yes or no?
Speaker 3: So he's putting out a little poll. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of back and forth, and you could certainly find it
Speaker 3: on the Bloomberg. We wanted to get to our own
Speaker 3: ed Ludlow to talk a little bit about kind of
Speaker 3: this back and forth of two that seems so intertwined
Speaker 3: and so getting along. Yeah, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: it feels very different.
Speaker 8: So I think for me, there was this realization over
Speaker 8: the weekend that Jared Eisagman wasn't going to be running
Speaker 8: NASAU and to a lot of people, and you reported on.
Speaker 9: This a lot over the last few months, to a
Speaker 9: lot of.
Speaker 8: People in the industry in Silicon Valley but also who
Speaker 8: are in the space industry, said this is a really
Speaker 8: good nomination.
Speaker 9: Yeah, regardless of.
Speaker 8: What his history has been, he knows what to do
Speaker 8: when it comes to space. He's been to space, he
Speaker 8: has a relationship with Elon, he has relationship with SpaceX.
Speaker 8: He knows this, he knows the industry.
Speaker 4: Makes sense.
Speaker 9: It was pulled over the weekend. Yeah, was at the
Speaker 9: beginning of the end of porlation.
Speaker 7: I think we should go through all of Elon's public
Speaker 7: and private companies and explain why this is happening and
Speaker 7: why is having so quickly. But Yeah, what we were
Speaker 7: told by sources is that Sergio Gore, an official within
Speaker 7: the White House, waited until musk Stage tenure had ended.
Speaker 7: What has happened in the last few hours is the
Speaker 7: President has said that Musk left DOGE because he was
Speaker 7: asked by the President to leave.
Speaker 5: I'm tallying all of this. We wait time.
Speaker 8: He had to leave at a certain point because the
Speaker 8: designation as a special government, which.
Speaker 7: Is kepped at a certain number of days. Anyway, but
Speaker 7: we're just going off what is said publically by the
Speaker 7: President of the United States when Musk left Doge Sergio Gore.
Speaker 7: This official, as our sources explained to us and others
Speaker 7: within the White House basically who are not fans of
Speaker 7: Elon Musk, saw Jared Isaacman as being closely associated with
Speaker 7: Elon Musk, we can get into that, and moved to
Speaker 7: influence the President.
Speaker 5: To cancel that nomination.
Speaker 7: The White House is officially saying that and citing Jared
Speaker 7: Isaacman's historic affiliation with the Democratic Party as well as
Speaker 7: donations to him. Right, that's a SpaceX relationship we're talking about.
Speaker 8: And we should note that there have been other people
Speaker 8: within the Trump administration, and indeed President Trump himself who
Speaker 8: in the past has donated the Democrats as well. Sure,
Speaker 8: he talked about that when he ran for president.
Speaker 7: Jarediseman went to space twice. He funded those activities himself,
Speaker 7: but through a financial transaction with SpaceX.
Speaker 5: We should talk about Tesla, which is the public.
Speaker 7: Proxy for what's happening. What you need to know is
Speaker 7: that SpaceX since the year two thousand, Tesla is down
Speaker 7: and I think at one point the session was down
Speaker 7: eighteen percent, on track for his biggest drop intra day
Speaker 7: in four years.
Speaker 5: Like that serious stuff. SpaceX and Tesla over the last twenty.
Speaker 7: Five years have had about twenty five billion dollars in
Speaker 7: government subsidies, grant contracts, including in SpaceX's contexts with the
Speaker 7: defense apparatus of this country.
Speaker 5: And what the President has.
Speaker 7: Said, I've got the quote, if you allow me to
Speaker 7: pull it on, is the easiest way to save money
Speaker 7: in our budget, billions and billions of dollars, is to
Speaker 7: terminate Elong's governmental sub that he's in contracts.
Speaker 5: I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it.
Speaker 8: Well, and on the question to you, maybe Biden didn't
Speaker 8: do it because SpaceX was the only game out there.
Speaker 7: SpaceX is the only game out there commercially in so
Speaker 7: far as it dominates the vast majority of payload human
Speaker 7: and non human from Earth into space. And I go
Speaker 7: back to the point that it is not just grants
Speaker 7: that NASA issues for development, but contracts with the defense
Speaker 7: apparatus of this country.
Speaker 9: Could point your backs. Rocket Lab step in right now.
Speaker 9: Is it an opportunity?
Speaker 7: Honestly, they are increasing the cadence of their launch. But
Speaker 7: the point is is that when you are a contractor
Speaker 7: that serves the government, there are regulatory and contractual baselines,
Speaker 7: itar rules, all of these things you have to satisfy.
Speaker 5: Elon as you guys, you and I have talked about
Speaker 5: this over many years.
Speaker 7: He has security clearance as part of his role as
Speaker 7: the chief executive officer of SpaceX.
Speaker 5: This is so fast moving.
Speaker 7: All I'm doing is summarizing what the President is said today,
Speaker 7: which is the reason Testa's down is a the association
Speaker 7: there is now a negative association of Elon Musk with
Speaker 7: the president. Previously that relationship supported the stop. In the
Speaker 7: private company's context, the President is saying that he's going
Speaker 7: to rip up the contracts that company has with America.
Speaker 5: This is what's happening in real time. Sorry, no, I
Speaker 5: think you know.
Speaker 3: It's just amazing kind of how the narrative that the relationship.
Speaker 3: Thinking that it would be good for EVS right initially,
Speaker 3: and it would be good potentially for everything that Elon touches,
Speaker 3: and we're seeing it's not necessarily played.
Speaker 7: So I reported last Fridays that Elon Musk and some
Speaker 7: of his staff have themselves been phoning lawmakers in this
Speaker 7: country to lobby on the passage of two pieces of
Speaker 7: legislation that are going through Congress on autonomous driving, to
Speaker 7: have language and content that those bills helped Tesla with
Speaker 7: its longer.
Speaker 5: Term ambition.
Speaker 7: To have a future where they have a robataxi service.
Speaker 5: This is also happening in the background.
Speaker 8: Look, it's a little bit of a political question ed,
Speaker 8: but bear with me because there's a connection to Silicon
Speaker 8: Valley here. Elon Musk in the months leading into up
Speaker 8: to the election was really able to gather support of
Speaker 8: a lot of folks who traditionally supported Democrats, some folks.
Speaker 9: Such as Musk, previously supports exactly.
Speaker 8: So you know markin Dresen, for example, who's been pro
Speaker 8: Trump lately, David Sachs, who serves as AI, and cryptos
Speaker 8: are there's a splintering happening right here, and I'm wondering
Speaker 8: if there aren't going to be repercussions that go beyond
Speaker 8: Elon Musk and start to affect a different contingency.
Speaker 7: I believe that also in the last twelve hours. At
Speaker 7: some point, Elon Musk has also posted that he was
Speaker 7: very helpful to the president.
Speaker 5: In the campaign.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, in getting that non traditional Trump base to
Speaker 7: vote for the president said, I'm just saying.
Speaker 8: You know, mus No, you're right. He absolutely said this
Speaker 8: in the last few hours. Trump wouldn't have won without me.
Speaker 8: And he also said that Democrats would have controlled the
Speaker 8: Senate if he didn't get behind Republicans. I guess we're
Speaker 8: really seeing the power in how this place.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and look to Elon Musk's credit, he has been
Speaker 7: consistent in saying I cannot influence the president on policy.
Speaker 5: So let's take for example, tariffs.
Speaker 7: Elon Musk was pretty clear on the last earning school
Speaker 7: he does not believe in the level of tariffs at
Speaker 7: the Trump with ministration at that time we're trying to
Speaker 7: put in place because of course, if you're an auto
Speaker 7: maker and you're moving products across borders in that subject
Speaker 7: to tariffs, that's not good for your top nor bottom line.
Speaker 5: But he has said that I don't agree with the
Speaker 5: president on everything. What has changed.
Speaker 7: If you're listening to this program and tuning in for
Speaker 7: the first time, there are posts on social media in
Speaker 7: both directions where the President of the United States, his
Speaker 7: relationship with Elon Musk has rapidly deteriorated in a matter
Speaker 7: of hours.
Speaker 3: Start now down just under fourteen just twenty second.
Speaker 5: To get in trouble with TV are going to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's put more pressure on Elon.
Speaker 7: Of course, it puts more pressure on Elon because Elon
Speaker 7: is the CEO of a public company, in several private
Speaker 7: companies that lead fields in America, in the world.
Speaker 9: Yeah, all right, there go go, Thank you.
Speaker 4: For all of us.
Speaker 3: He's in demand. He's in demand. Our at Ludlow of course,
Speaker 3: co host of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Listen live
Speaker 2: each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car
Speaker 2: Play and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.
Speaker 2: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
Speaker 2: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven
Speaker 2: thirty robots.
Speaker 8: And warehouses doing repetitive tasks that humans now do, but
Speaker 8: doing them better and not getting injured.
Speaker 9: Carold.
Speaker 8: It sounds like the stuff of the future, but Agility
Speaker 8: Robotics is one of the few companies that's doing this
Speaker 8: right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they really are.
Speaker 4: Check us out.
Speaker 3: It's got five foot nine inch robots working at a
Speaker 3: warehouse containing products made by spanks, has technology and testing
Speaker 3: at Amazon dot Com facilities, and that really makes Agility
Speaker 3: really one of the few humanoid bought companies with machines
Speaker 3: currently performing useful task for customers. If you are wondering
Speaker 3: if it's happening, folks, it's happening.
Speaker 8: Heyst the former CEO of be ong Men Reality Tech
Speaker 8: for Magically if she's senior roles at Microsoft in the
Speaker 8: Qualcom She joins us here in San Francisco at the
Speaker 8: Bloomberg Tech Summit.
Speaker 9: Welcome.
Speaker 8: It's been reported that companies are testing digit you're humanoid robot.
Speaker 9: It's what we're talking about.
Speaker 8: When will it go beyond testing though to actually scale?
Speaker 9: Apparently they're only.
Speaker 8: About one hundred of these that are out in the
Speaker 8: field right now.
Speaker 4: Well, we have gone beyond testing.
Speaker 10: We are actually commercially deployed as of one year ago
Speaker 10: today actually in GXO facilities, which is a third party
Speaker 10: logistics provider who sends spanks out.
Speaker 9: You don't, mister Jacobs, Well, at this point we do.
Speaker 3: We do.
Speaker 9: So how many are out there in the field.
Speaker 10: Right now, there's a handful of them, but they're getting
Speaker 10: ready to more hundred oh total. We only have about
Speaker 10: one hundred out in the field that the company has made,
Speaker 10: but at GXO we have a handful of those, but
Speaker 10: they're looking at next steps on how to scale that
Speaker 10: beyond that facility.
Speaker 3: Peggy, is it all about logistics at least for the
Speaker 3: beginning and for a long time, Like, I'm just curious
Speaker 3: how this explodes.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that was the right entry point for a couple
Speaker 10: of reasons. One is the robot is capable of doing
Speaker 10: that today.
Speaker 4: It was made for work.
Speaker 10: It can pick up heavy containers even if things are
Speaker 10: rolling around in it and still be stable and set
Speaker 10: it down. It can move things from A to B
Speaker 10: over and over and over again. Logistics happens to be
Speaker 10: an area where there's a huge labor gap. These are
Speaker 10: challenging jobs, very physically.
Speaker 4: Challenging. They have.
Speaker 10: Repetition, they're a little bit mind numbing. They're just hard jobs,
Speaker 10: cause a lot of injuries and things. Hard to fill
Speaker 10: these jobs. So because of that demand, we are able
Speaker 10: to bring our robots in.
Speaker 3: How expensive are they and how quickly? Does that kind
Speaker 3: of makes sense?
Speaker 4: Answer?
Speaker 3: That's true, vacation times, maintenance, they don't fight with each other.
Speaker 9: You haven't seen terminator.
Speaker 3: No, Seriously, how much do they cost and like for
Speaker 3: a company? How quickly does it make sense?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 10: Right now we talk about them in the range very
Speaker 10: low volume of say a luxury vehicle, but that's coming
Speaker 10: down very very quickly.
Speaker 4: With volume.
Speaker 10: We believe we have line of sight to about twenty
Speaker 10: five K thirty K for these industrial robots.
Speaker 4: We'll be in that environment for a while.
Speaker 10: Now before say we get into the homes, where I
Speaker 10: think the price is going to have to come down
Speaker 10: much much further.
Speaker 8: The big risk that by the way, we're speaking with
Speaker 8: Peggy Johnson, COO Agility Robotics. If it's getting a little
Speaker 8: loud for folks, it's just because it's lunchtime and we
Speaker 8: got a lot of folks lining up behind us. Peggy,
Speaker 8: the sort of golden goose of this stuff is working
Speaker 8: alongside humans in a way that's not at a risk
Speaker 8: to the health of the humans, where a robot's not
Speaker 8: going to like bump them and hurt them.
Speaker 9: How do you do that?
Speaker 8: Because that seems to be something that is challenging.
Speaker 10: It is super challenging human right now exactly. They have
Speaker 10: to today work inside of a work selle, which are
Speaker 10: these gates that go up about waist high. It keeps
Speaker 10: humans back because its case robots, yeah right, because they're
Speaker 10: very hard, they're very curious. Humans want to get in
Speaker 10: there and see them.
Speaker 4: So it keeps humans back.
Speaker 10: But the robots themselves are human sized, and sometimes they fall,
Speaker 10: they trip, or you know, things just like humans do.
Speaker 4: And so you have.
Speaker 10: To be able to handle those situations in a very
Speaker 10: controlled manner. Sometimes they're carrying fifty pounds of weight. That
Speaker 10: has to be something that you bring the robot down
Speaker 10: in a very controlled way so that no one gets hurt.
Speaker 10: We don't want an arm coming around.
Speaker 4: How do you do that?
Speaker 10: Super challenging. We figured it out at Agility and we'll
Speaker 10: be demoing that before the end of the year. It's
Speaker 10: called cooperative safety. We be around humans.
Speaker 8: So one thing that I've learned over the last few
Speaker 8: months is that China is doing this really, really well.
Speaker 8: We have reports that there's a higher density of robots
Speaker 8: for human on Chinese factory floors than.
Speaker 9: Here in the US, and then here in Japan.
Speaker 8: A source feature in a Bloomberg story just a couple
Speaker 8: of weeks ago said there are fifty or sixty companies
Speaker 8: in China he thinks working on humanoid development.
Speaker 9: Now are we behind?
Speaker 4: I would say yes and no.
Speaker 10: They do have a plecora of robots out there. Some
Speaker 10: of what is termed humanoids aren't actually. I mean humanoids
Speaker 10: usually have two arms, two legs ahead. Some of them
Speaker 10: are simple robot arms and things like that. So if
Speaker 10: we separate those out and say just what are the
Speaker 10: humanoids doing, there's very few that we see doing real
Speaker 10: heavy industrial work. Oftentimes it's very lightweight. It's only a
Speaker 10: handful of skills. I think from an innovation standpoint, the
Speaker 10: US is still ahead of China in this hysteria.
Speaker 3: Okay, wait a minute, So because I think we think
Speaker 3: about like the automation part that China has done really
Speaker 3: really very well. But you're saying with humanoids, you think
Speaker 3: the US is ahead.
Speaker 4: I think we are still ahead.
Speaker 10: We have not seen first of all, safety incorporated in
Speaker 10: their humanoids. You must have safe humanoids. You cannot let
Speaker 10: them out at a work selle where the big markets
Speaker 10: are without that. You need an e stop, for instance,
Speaker 10: an emergency stop on the back.
Speaker 4: You need to hit that if something goes wrong. It's
Speaker 4: just like an electronic bing. Can I get one for this?
Speaker 9: They do have that in the World Robot, the best
Speaker 9: selling children's book. Well they do.
Speaker 4: Okay, see they're ahead, They are ahead.
Speaker 3: So I am curious about oversight though, like yeah, is
Speaker 3: like what is the capacity for someone to go in
Speaker 3: and affect a program? Like how does it work? Are
Speaker 3: once a humanoid is out there?
Speaker 4: Are they completely independent? Or is there some over like
Speaker 4: how does Yeah? So a couple of things.
Speaker 10: We are actually working with US government on the standards
Speaker 10: for humanoids none exist right now.
Speaker 4: They need to work with on that.
Speaker 10: We work with a group called A three and they
Speaker 10: then input the results of that into folks like oh ship.
Speaker 3: Part of defense?
Speaker 9: Would it go under David.
Speaker 10: And crypt It will probably cross paths with David at point?
Speaker 3: All right, so continue, right, So.
Speaker 4: You need you need that.
Speaker 10: But we've taken safety seriously from day one because of
Speaker 10: the power in these machines.
Speaker 4: You have to take it seriously.
Speaker 10: If if a program, if something should happen, you don't
Speaker 10: want an arm to fling around and knock you over
Speaker 10: and do perhaps more damage. So that and also the
Speaker 10: data on it has to stay very protected. Just like
Speaker 10: anything in a corporate IT infrastructure, you've got to keep
Speaker 10: the data protected.
Speaker 4: So we think of all of those things elimination.
Speaker 3: Are they using data from the cloud? Do they have
Speaker 3: their own like on site.
Speaker 4: On premise both.
Speaker 10: We have quite a bit of compute on the compute
Speaker 10: the robot itself, and we're also connected to the cloud.
Speaker 10: We need to step into an enterprise environment, so we
Speaker 10: have to plug into their warehouse management systems. We have
Speaker 10: to talk to the other types of robots like autonomous
Speaker 10: mobile carts and conveyor belts. Those are all types of
Speaker 10: automation and we have to talk to all of those
Speaker 10: in order to work safely in that environment. And by
Speaker 10: the way, to take over those tasks that they can't
Speaker 10: find humans for.
Speaker 4: We have to be able to plug in as if
Speaker 4: it was a human.
Speaker 8: You're not the only one here in the US who's
Speaker 8: working on this. I don't know if he's on. Brett
Speaker 8: Adcock from jan RAI was here. They're also working on humanoids.
Speaker 8: How does your robot differ from Gratz?
Speaker 10: Well, we're here today with our robot who will walk
Speaker 10: autonomously onto the stage today and upon my input, will
Speaker 10: execute on my commands.
Speaker 4: So that's one big difference, and it.
Speaker 8: Sounds like the figure AI robot does not do that.
Speaker 10: At this point, I haven't seen it, Okay, possibly has
Speaker 10: anyone seen it?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Okay, I couldn't you care?
Speaker 9: Ask Brett, Well, we could do Carol. Do you remember
Speaker 9: that show many years ago?
Speaker 8: This is like when I was a kid Battle Bots,
Speaker 8: where they had like remote control cars robots that would
Speaker 8: like violently attack each other.
Speaker 9: I could see like a little cage match.
Speaker 3: Between actually that you've seen some video over in China.
Speaker 4: Yeah, robots kind of.
Speaker 8: Agility, digit and like a figure AI robots.
Speaker 10: We actually have really taken a stand that we would
Speaker 10: never arm our general purpose robots.
Speaker 4: We they do average us.
Speaker 10: We first and foremost have to have trust with the humans,
Speaker 10: so we won't.
Speaker 9: Just that we have to. This is the fact that
Speaker 9: you have to say that I think is the story.
Speaker 3: No, it is a story Like I'm thinking. We just
Speaker 3: talked about drones in terms of yeah, it's impacting warfare,
Speaker 3: and I just think about all this stuff getting into
Speaker 3: the wrong hands, like how do we control that.
Speaker 10: Well, we've already seen some of that out of China.
Speaker 10: You see armed humanoids in videos and things I think
Speaker 10: the US has to have a response to that obviously,
Speaker 10: and that they should have that kind of tech. My
Speaker 10: point is our current general purpose robots are not meant
Speaker 10: for that at all, and because we need to build
Speaker 10: trust in the environs.
Speaker 8: Will you never will will you rule out ever using
Speaker 8: your robots for security place?
Speaker 4: I mean, we'd never rule that out.
Speaker 10: I just want to make it very clear that what
Speaker 10: we have today is not meant for that.
Speaker 4: And you do see videos of.
Speaker 10: That coming out of general purpose robots in China.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I will say that is terrifying.
Speaker 8: What we've read startups are doing trials in China from
Speaker 8: sorting garbage, delivery medicines, and nursing homes.
Speaker 9: You're thinking about using these for elder care.
Speaker 8: But also patrolling the streets alongside police officers and on
Speaker 8: the other hand, guiding.
Speaker 9: Museum for US.
Speaker 10: Yeah, those are all great use cases. I think it
Speaker 10: is because you're putting a human in harm's way every
Speaker 10: time a policeman walks out onto the street. I think
Speaker 10: better to have a robot. I think it doesn't have
Speaker 10: to be armed.
Speaker 4: It doesn't.
Speaker 10: Yeah, in a hazardous situation there's been some sort of
Speaker 10: nuclear problem, send a robot in don't you know send
Speaker 10: in humans?
Speaker 3: I want to ask you. City recently projected that the
Speaker 3: market for the machinis, humanoids and related services will search
Speaker 3: to about seven trillion by twenty fifty, and the world
Speaker 3: could be populated by six hundred and forty eight million
Speaker 3: human like bots by that What might that world look like?
Speaker 5: Take us there?
Speaker 10: Well, I think that world doesn't happen first until their safety.
Speaker 10: So we have to show that these robots can be
Speaker 10: side by side with humans in.
Speaker 4: A very safe manner. But then you should think of
Speaker 4: it as a tool.
Speaker 10: And the same way farmers used to plow fields with
Speaker 10: oxen and now they have machines that do it. This
Speaker 10: will be a tool that will give you choice. Some
Speaker 10: people might want to use their robot to cook. You
Speaker 10: might enjoy cooking. You say no, just do the laundry
Speaker 10: for me. So that or you should think of. But
Speaker 10: it is giving you choice.
Speaker 4: To take manual labor off your head.
Speaker 3: So we could have every household has their own humanoid.
Speaker 3: I'm wind to do like tasks like it'll be affordable.
Speaker 8: I would say two hours a night, right, it's like
Speaker 8: meat like stuff that I do every day.
Speaker 3: Up, I mean you can see every household having absolutely yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: Before we let you go funding. How you're thinking about
Speaker 8: the business the information reported just a couple months ago
Speaker 8: in March. When you're raising four hundred million dollars at
Speaker 8: a pre investment valuation at one point seventy five million dollars,
Speaker 8: can you give us an update?
Speaker 9: Has that round closed?
Speaker 10: That is ongoing and we have the funds will be
Speaker 10: used to make our next generation robot, which is going
Speaker 10: to be awesome. It's going to have a ten to
Speaker 10: one work to charge ratio on batteries, which means one
Speaker 10: hundred minutes of work ten minutes of charge. It's back
Speaker 10: out around the floor again.
Speaker 4: It can take full shifts.
Speaker 8: It's got many more rounds just ten seconds? How many
Speaker 8: more rounds of financing de courses?
Speaker 4: I think this is it?
Speaker 9: All right? Cool stuff did in less than ten seconds.
Speaker 5: I love it.
Speaker 3: I love it, Peggy, such cool stuff.
Speaker 4: So glad we could get some time with Thanks for
Speaker 4: having me.
Speaker 3: Thank you for being here, Peggy Johnson, CEO of Agility Robotics.
Speaker 2: You are listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Catch
Speaker 2: us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern
Speaker 2: Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Hey listen very much to a part of our world today.
Speaker 3: We've got a podcast. Everybody's got a podcast. Great Chat, though,
Speaker 3: is a new one that debuted I think about three
Speaker 3: months ago. Episodes include conversations that can kind of go
Speaker 3: in a lot of places, lls AI AI, maybe taking
Speaker 3: our jobs, the best place to do, a startup that's
Speaker 3: as likely to be heard as our courting eggs Forever
Speaker 3: twenty one's demise, and also views on.
Speaker 8: The new code We've got with us here at the
Speaker 8: Bloomberg Tech twenty five. Ashley Mayor, co host of the
Speaker 8: Great Chat podcast, actually a co founder and general partner
Speaker 8: at the early venture firm Coalition Operators. Last night, she
Speaker 8: was joined by her co host Ellen men, who a
Speaker 8: venture partner at True Ventures and also has done time
Speaker 8: Carol had plaid drop Box and the company formerly known
Speaker 8: as Spacebook.
Speaker 3: Tell us about this podcast, because my understanding, I think
Speaker 3: it was a LinkedIn post that you guys talked about.
Speaker 4: I think you did that.
Speaker 3: It was like a feisty dinner and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: here we got to a podcast. Tell us about what
Speaker 3: you guys were thinking in the mission here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, be careful before you go to a
Speaker 1: dinner with a group of friends, because you might end
Speaker 1: up starting a podcast. The five of us had a
Speaker 1: dinner at Last Ball. It was a fun, feisty conversation
Speaker 1: about the tech industry, and we joked at that dinner,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should have a podcast. There are
Speaker 1: so many podcasts that are you know, more news driven,
Speaker 1: more informational, have guests, but we sort of thought that
Speaker 1: maybe a more conversational, conversational format was good. And so
Speaker 1: that podcast turned into a group chat, and that group
Speaker 1: chat turned into a podcast, and Great Chat was born.
Speaker 3: Can I say it almost felt like Sex and the
Speaker 3: City for the tech world a little bit, because you
Speaker 3: guys will cover a lot of what's going on in
Speaker 3: the world more generally, but then you'll talk about, you know,
Speaker 3: some executive moving to Meadow or something, and you kind
Speaker 3: of get into the nitty gritty of it.
Speaker 1: Sex and the City for nerds maybe, yeah. And I
Speaker 1: think what we try to do is demystify a lot
Speaker 1: of the headlines everyone seeing. I mean, the five of
Speaker 1: us have worked in tech our whole careers, as investors, operators, founders.
Speaker 1: My co host Sally has been in media herself, and
Speaker 1: so we try to break down like the biggest headlines,
Speaker 1: the biggest topics in tech and make them accessible, especially
Speaker 1: to a younger generation of people coming into this industry.
Speaker 8: You guys are venture capitalists, so you understand that things
Speaker 8: need to make money eventually. Yes, we're in a world
Speaker 8: where anyone can do a podcast, so there's a big
Speaker 8: difference between sort of the caller daddies and Joe Rogan's
Speaker 8: of the world and then the newer entrants that don't
Speaker 8: necessarily have the traction. Is this right now making money
Speaker 8: as the goal for it to make money?
Speaker 1: No, not currently, although you know, never say never. We're
Speaker 1: very much in scrappy mode. We're really doing this from
Speaker 1: a place that we saw a gap in the ecosystem
Speaker 1: and if I'm gonna be a little feisty here myself,
Speaker 1: we found one of the few areas of white space
Speaker 1: in tech commentary, which is the we're all women. And
Speaker 1: we felt like a lot of the biggest voices in
Speaker 1: the tech industry were very loud, very prominent, often billionaire men,
Speaker 1: and we thought maybe we could bring a different a
Speaker 1: different line you're not.
Speaker 8: Saying any names, but I know, I think I know
Speaker 8: who you're talking about.
Speaker 4: There may be a podcast.
Speaker 1: It's a group of four men who are very loud
Speaker 1: and sad.
Speaker 9: I did watch Sounds like Me Loud on HBO. I
Speaker 9: don't know if you watch Mountainhead. I'm just throwing it
Speaker 9: onto fun fact.
Speaker 1: I worked for one of those podcast hosts back in
Speaker 1: the day.
Speaker 9: What did you learn?
Speaker 1: Well, I learned the power of narrative and the stories
Speaker 1: we tell each other and ourselves about our industry determine
Speaker 1: who gets funded, who gets the benefit of doubt, where
Speaker 1: top talent goes, and this stuff really matters.
Speaker 3: But it's so indicative of how many conversations have we
Speaker 3: had about women in tech and specifically female founded companies
Speaker 3: just fighting for capital and to get recognized. Why is
Speaker 3: that still a problem and how can you guys use
Speaker 3: your format in your platform to maybe help that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also as venture capitalists in your own right totally,
Speaker 1: And I mean I'm an emerging fund manager myself. I
Speaker 1: have to raise money for my fund, and so it's
Speaker 1: very much a thing.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 1: I think just having examples of people who are maybe underrepresented,
Speaker 1: who are visible, who are doing the thing and putting
Speaker 1: ourselves out there. I mean, we're very much in this
Speaker 1: like anti DEI era, which which comes with both I
Speaker 1: think some negative implications for how people and are focusing
Speaker 1: their their time and efforts. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you know, we all get to put our
Speaker 1: chips on the table and build things ourselves and elevate
Speaker 1: other people who are doing it.
Speaker 3: Actually, just push back against Ei. I push back against women,
Speaker 3: push back against anyone who maybe isn't just a white
Speaker 3: male born in America. That's kind of how it feels
Speaker 3: right now. Yeah, with your platform, are you afraid to
Speaker 3: speak at against that? I mean, because I think there
Speaker 3: is a lot of fear among leaders about you know,
Speaker 3: the White House either hearing something and not liking it.
Speaker 3: So tell me about that, and how does it make
Speaker 3: it also harder for you guys to raise money?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I am at a small fund. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I'm not too worried about President Trump watching this
Speaker 1: interview and coming at me and listen. I think at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, my job as an investor
Speaker 1: is to fund the very best founders I can find.
Speaker 1: I do super early stage investing, So it really is
Speaker 1: a bet On the founder. I don't have a diversity mandate.
Speaker 1: We never have a coalition, but we have very diverse networks,
Speaker 1: the diverse pipeline of deals, and so we have a
Speaker 1: diverse portfolio. And in an ideal world, that's how it
Speaker 1: works in my opinion, right versus having to have dedicated
Speaker 1: programs specifics leaves the dollars going to you know, early
Speaker 1: stage fund founders. I think that you know, as the
Speaker 1: venture eco system divers size the pool of founders who
Speaker 1: get capital of life.
Speaker 8: I want to talk to you a little bit about
Speaker 8: what's exciting you in the tech space right now before
Speaker 8: we do that. Carol you did mention and Ashley you
Speaker 8: mentioned it too that the president going after different folks.
Speaker 8: I should bring everyone an update in the sort of
Speaker 8: relationship between Elon Musk and President Trump. The President putting
Speaker 8: out on true social quote Elon was wearing thin.
Speaker 9: I asked him to leave.
Speaker 8: I took away his ev mandate that forced everyone to
Speaker 8: buy electric cars that nobody else wanted, that he knew
Speaker 8: for months I was going to do, and he just
Speaker 8: went crazy. So just a little bit of an update
Speaker 8: back and forth between the President and it.
Speaker 3: Is so over it does feel.
Speaker 9: You know, we're going to talk to r J.
Speaker 8: Skerriinch from Ribban in just a minute, so see if
Speaker 8: he has any commentary about that, Ashley, before we let
Speaker 8: you go curious about what's exciting to you out there.
Speaker 8: We're not an in ecosystem in technology where venture capitalists
Speaker 8: are throwing money at, like you know, at based games
Speaker 8: or food delivery apps or that sort of thing. Right now,
Speaker 8: A lot of it's going into robotics, a lot of
Speaker 8: it's going into AI.
Speaker 9: Where are you seeing the money go?
Speaker 1: I mean excited about a lot of the macrunchs that
Speaker 1: other people are. I have a partner who is actively
Speaker 1: building a company in the AI space called Triai. We
Speaker 1: see incredible aideal flow from her, and she also sort
Speaker 1: of really has a real time pulse on what the
Speaker 1: biggest AI platforms are doing, how enterprises are adopting. I
Speaker 1: have another partner who runs city Block Health, which is
Speaker 1: a massive healthcare startup. We're seeing incredible breakthroughs in the
Speaker 1: healthcare ecosystem, especially the intersection of health and AI. But
Speaker 1: at the highest level, I think there's never been a
Speaker 1: better time to be an emerging investor and an early
Speaker 1: stage investor. Because so many things are changing about the
Speaker 1: world right From a technological perspective, a platform shift is
Speaker 1: really changing everything. From a regulatory perspective, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a wild West, but change is
Speaker 1: generally good for early stage startups. Culturally and from a
Speaker 1: media perspective, the way startups build their brands, go to market,
Speaker 1: find their customers is changing, and so that for me
Speaker 1: is so exciting. These moments of change are where the
Speaker 1: most opportunity comes from.
Speaker 3: So ten seconds in a world where everything feels so uncertain,
Speaker 3: you feel pretty confident.
Speaker 4: I feel good.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think if you've built your career in
Speaker 1: the startup ecosystem, your purpose built for change. And there's
Speaker 1: never been a bigger period of change than the one
Speaker 1: we're in right now.
Speaker 3: Ashley bay Or she is co founder and general partner
Speaker 3: of the early venture firm Coalition Operators, and she, along
Speaker 3: with helenman Or, co hosts at the Grade chat pot Yam.
Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
Speaker 2: afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 2: The iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
Speaker 2: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
Speaker 2: and always on the Bloomberg terminal