WEBVTT - Creating a New and More Productive Way to Work 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.600 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.039 Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.800 Well, if you were to spend an entire Saturday binging 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:20.000 old episodes of your favorite TV show while snacking on popcorn, Carol, 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.000 I have done it, what would the show be? 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:25.560 Don't judge me. I'm I can't tell you. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.600 All right, maybe throw a nap in there too. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:28.440 Throw a nap in there. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:29.480 Two there, remember the. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:31.440 Band got there? That's a good one. You were like, Finally, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:33.279 would you call it one of the most productive days 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:33.840 of your life? 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:35.800 I don't know if it was productive, but I really 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:36.440 loved it? 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.360 Okay, Well, Laura may Martin did just that, and yes, 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:41.519 she writes in her new book that watching old episodes 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.199 of Heartland, which I had to google I didn't know 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.960 that was a show for ten hours, was indeed one 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.960 of the most productive days of her life. She should 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:51.720 know what's productive, because she's the executive productivity advisor at Google, 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.360 also the author of the new book Uptime, A Practical 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.800 Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being. She joins us 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.680 here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. So, Laura, please 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.800 tell us us how in the world is binging something 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.720 on Netflix or a streaming service all day productive. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.479 I think the old definition of productivity is how much 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.520 are you churning out? How much are you checking off 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:13.240 your list? But when you think about it in a 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.679 holistic sense, if your intention was to relax and spend 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.920 a day doing something you love, and you set the 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.479 time aside to do that and you execute it on it, well, 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:22.920 then I would argue that. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.839 That was a productive day in the long term. 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.279 Interesting. I love this. I mean, take a step back 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.000 and tell us, because you carved out a niche for yourself, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.440 certainly over at Google in terms of productivity, tell us 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.280 about how that came to be and the kind of 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.080 things you were doing for workers there at the company 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.080 and kind of taking something like were you're telling, you know, employees, 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.039 go home, go binge, come back in twenty four hours, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:46.320 like help us through. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:46.800 Yeah. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.000 So I think when I started, I was in sales, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.680 and you know, this job didn't exist, and I was 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.600 really just managing my own email, my own time, my 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.920 own energy in a way that was making me productive. 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.240 And Google has a great program where you can teach 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.240 other Googlers anything, and so I started teaching an email 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.520 training about how to use your inbox like a dashboard 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.200 and manage all of your tasks. And that eventually led 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.720 to me coaching people one on one and working with 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:15.000 executives and eventually starting productivity at Google. So it was 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.600 something that people were already doing and needed more organization around, 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:19.640 and that's what led to it. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.840 Okay, so let's talk about some of like some of 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.320 those executives, because arguably the people who are creating, you know, 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.120 among the most valuable companies in the world. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:28.239 Like they're productive. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.320 Yes, look what they did, Yes, you know, they took 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.480 a project at Stanford and made it into an over 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:33.520 trillion dollar company. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:36.239 What were they doing wrong? Though? 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.520 I think so a lot of times when I'm working 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:40.800 with an executive, it's at maybe a turning point. So 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.840 it's just having that objective lens to help look at Oh, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.280 you're taking on a new team, or now you're working globally, 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.960 or you have a different role than before, and so 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.560 this is a good time to take a look at 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.280 priorities and responsibilities and how you're thinking about your time. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.600 So many times I'm there just to kind of ask 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.720 questions and prompt and create systems between a chief of 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.440 staff and an assistant and how everyone works together. But 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.000 the great thing is, like you said, many all of 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.160 them are already productive in a lot of ways. So 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.800 I'm learning from each of those sessions and then spreading 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.040 some of those across the company. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:12.880 There's being productive kind of with your work life, there's 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:15.120 being productive with your personal life. We have Michael a 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.560 listener writing in wondering if people would improve productivity by 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.320 scheduling times for their personal goals as well. So how 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:23.880 did you factor in that side of it. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.280 I actually don't recommend people come up with personal girls 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.040 and work goals because there's only one you. There's only 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:31.440 one pie of times. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:32.440 So depressive. 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.520 No, it's good because it helps you think about I'm 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.520 one holistic person with one set of time and things 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.400 I can focus on. So if I have a personal goal, 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:41.840 I have to make room for that at work. If 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:43.920 I'm taking on more at work, I need to make 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.360 room for that in my personal life. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.400 And so you know, it's a trade off mindset. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.000 Every decision impacts everything in your world. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.240 Exactly, and saying yes anything is saying no to something else. Implicitly, 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:54.920 So you have to figure out what that is at 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.960 all times, and so you know when those personal changes 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.000 come up, if you're moving your family across the country, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.040 something at work might need to take it back to. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:03.640 The heads of the company, Like could we talk to 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:04.920 you and say, hey, we need some help. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.800 With something I do training for everyone at the company, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.160 So all the way down to new employees, two executives. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.000 What's your advice? Because Tim, you and I talk about 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.120 this a lot. You have a young family, my daughter's 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.200 elder at this point. But I mean it does feel 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.240 like we live you know, we have full jobs to 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:23.159 say the least. Yeah, we commute, You're in New York City. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.160 Like there's just a lot that comes at you. I mean, 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:27.680 how do you kind of work with somebody and how 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.040 do you help them kind of be more productive on 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:31.599 in all aspects of their life. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.600 A lot of times the first question I ask is 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.479 if you had an extra hour of your day, what 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.320 would you do with it? 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.599 And what that gives me? That information of what I 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:39.680 call kind of the cusp. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.360 You know what you want to be doing, but you're 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.680 not quite getting to and so it's usually something like 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.839 I wish I could spend more time with my family, 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.120 or I work on this bigger picture project, or I've 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:50.960 really been wanting to learn how to sew. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:52.400 Well, that's my question. 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.040 Do people who you asked that question to ever say 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:56.440 they want to spend more time working. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.680 Sometimes it's I have a team and I want to 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.279 f on more big picture, like you going to report 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:03.760 back to my. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.320 Boss, sleep, spend more time with family. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.000 You know, it can be just what they've been meaning 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:10.960 to get to, and it usually just means what they're 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:11.880 just out of reach. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:12.800 Well, it's funny. 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:14.839 You know, there's a book I read of Steve Schwartz 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.000 been a Blackstone but and a colleague of ours, Jason Kelly, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.719 we talked about and there's a thing in him and 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:21.520 what he said is. 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:22.720 Like what it takes is the book? 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:23.520 What what it takes? 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:23.880 Thank you? 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.680 But he was like, think big that don't kind of 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.719 get caught up in the tedious small things. If there's 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.080 something kind of similar but on a bigger scale that's 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.120 going to have a bigger impact, don't waste your time 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:35.839 on that little stuff. 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:36.680 Go big. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.559 And I wonder if you kind of incorporate that thinking 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:41.440 into how you be more productive. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.719 Yeah, I think a lot of times people get in 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.719 the weeds again of like, if I'm a salesperson. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:47.839 How do I figure out how to make more calls 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:48.320 per day? 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.800 But the reason I recommend even incorporating downtime into your 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.880 schedule is because that's when you come up with those 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.559 big picture ideas. I just talked to someone yesterday who said, 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.719 my boss should pay me for my hour run in 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.840 the morning because that's when I contribut most to work. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.240 And so while we feel like it's all about how 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.000 much we're doing little, it has to be also how 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:06.880 are we thinking big? 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.159 I like that I think a lot of that has 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.279 I don't know if you've noticed this, but Laura, there's 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:13.600 been this shift since the pandemic. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.240 I feel like that it's it's much less. 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:16.360 So she hasn't noticed it. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.640 But but you don't know what I'm gonna say. Fine, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.800 I thought, I know, you know it's not productive. You 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.640 know it's not productive for me. Is I just think 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:24.920 I know? 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.279 I'm so okay, go ahead, gohead. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.479 Is this idea of like, productivity doesn't necessarily mean buttson 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.600 seats at the office, right, So it's the idea of, actually, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.240 if you create a good product, does it matter if 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.680 you're actually working from you know, three to five PM, 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:41.800 or like you need to go pick. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:42.159 Up your kid. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.039 Yeah, and that's why I tell managers that January to 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:46.920 March should be the new nine to five. You need 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.840 to be thinking about macro goals and how people are 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.719 reaching them because some people, yeah, people in the pandemic 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.719 realize that they liked waking up super early, working for 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.800 a bit, then having a workout, or waking up late 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.159 and working into the night. And that's such a big 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:02.320 part of productivity as. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:03.600 Your own natural rhythms. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.240 Not all time slots are created equal, and so if 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.360 you figure out when you work the best, you should 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.800 be able to honor that as much as possible versus 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:11.800 the traditional schedule. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.560 Well, you know you guys in the tech world, and 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.200 we had folks that we talked to you during the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.040 pandemic and said, listen, we've been working from home and 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.080 flexible and hybrid and all this stuff for years. We 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.400 have a story that's on the Bloomberg most read has 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.240 to do with Steve Cohen, big hedge fund investor know well, 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:31.240 but he our audience knows him well, saying that he 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.560 thinks the four day work week is coming. How do 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.640 you guys say, if an employee says to you, listen, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.640 I'd be much more productive if I work three or 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.960 four days, just jam it all in. How do you 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:42.200 approach something like that. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.800 I can't speak for how Google as a whole is 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.560 thinking of that, but I think that when you're honoring 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.600 flexibility in general, that should be something that you're thinking about. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.760 If somebody says, again, my goals are from January to March. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.640 Can I accomplish those in four days? 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:57.160 And is that something that you know? 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.840 Unless it's interfering with your ability to meet on Fridays 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.520 or something like that that affects collaboration, then it should 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.600 be considered, because you know, it's not about the hours. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.120 Did you see a shift at Google in your years there? 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.360 You know, there's this whole idea early on with Google 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:14.680 where I don't even know if they still have this 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.480 around twenty percent time where you can just dedicate a 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.760 fifth of your time to whatever project you want to do. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.320 Have have they pulled back on that a bit? 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.800 This program that I created was my twenty percent project. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.000 So it's really about. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.400 Finding your passion and your need and merging that with 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.760 the need of someone in the company. So clearly here 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.880 there was a need for an organized, you know, version of. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.120 Productivity at Google. And that's what I spent my time on. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:41.679 There's one thing in the book, and it says one 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.640 component of peak p Yeah, one component of peak productivity 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.720 is having a good inventory of everything you're not doing yet. 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:50.559 What does that mean? 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.600 That is equally as important as everything you are doing? 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.000 So in other words, like a to do list, to 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.360 do list, but what happens is people make When I've 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.120 studied to do lists and how people usually. 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.160 Did, I make them all the time to say, frustrate. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.240 That, well, exactly because you probably have something that's to 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.000 doe by five pm. And then you're also like, I 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.240 should do this before the summer, and then you have 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.680 just a list that's kind of merging all those things together. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.520 And so in the book, I talk about having a 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.640 list of everything you possibly could do versus everything you 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:18.079 realistically will do, and keeping inventory of those. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:20.840 I'm loudly because I'm thinking about the way my wife 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.559 and I figure out like calendars and stuff. It's like 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.839 the Google calendar, It's the whiteboard of the kitchen. It's 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:26.920 like texting each other. I mean, what do you do 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:27.320 at home. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.440 Yeah, so I do have a Google calendar with my husband. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.360 I invite him when he needs to pick up or 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.160 I need to pick up. And you know, it's if 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.000 it's not on the calendar, it's not truth. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:37.079 It's not going to happen. 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.720 Twenty seconds left here. If somebody wants to start thinking 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.719 about being more productive in their life holistically, well to 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.319 be one step step that they should take. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.480 Just quickly start planning for the day after the night before, 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.679 so making an hour by hour plan of how you 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.160 plan to spend your day tomorrow before you go to bed. 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:54.880 All right, add it to your to do list, Carol, I. 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.600 Kind of do do lists the night before. 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:57.920 You know what you need on your to do list 0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:59.400 and just to make it to do list. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.840 So with my computer, there's like lots of stickies all 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:03.120 over it. 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.480 I can't see anything in your Good luck with the book? 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:06.880 Thank was fun Martin. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:08.800 Her new book is well First of Us. She's an 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.360 executive productivity advisor at Google. Her new book Uptime, A 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.800 Practical Guide to Personal Productivity and well Being. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.760 Okay, so we talked a little bit just now about 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:18.800 the jobs report from me on on Friday, we got 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.760 a little peek into the labor market today, because private 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.199 payrolls increasing one hundred and eighty four thousand in March 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.800 after an upwardly revised one hundred and fifty five thousand 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.720 gain a month earlier. That's according to figures published earlier 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.560 today by ADP. The median estimate Carrol in a Bloomberg 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.679 survey of economists, called for one hundred and fifty thousand increase. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.320 On Friday, we're going to get the government's monthly payroll 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.840 report that's expected to show a gain of roughly two 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.640 hundred fifteen thousand in private and public sector jobs. 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.200 All right, we have another take on the labor market. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.760 We welcome back Jayne. She's senior policy advisor for Working Nation. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.960 It's a nonprofit media organization organization excuse me, that focuses 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.199 on the future of work. She's also a former Assistant 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.240 Secretary of Employment and Training under the Obama administration. She 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.960 joins us on this Wednesday in Arlington, Virginia. Jane, good 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.200 to have you back here on Bloomberg. How are you 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.640 and how do you describe the US workforce right now? 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.679 I mean, we keep seeing data points that remind us 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.200 it's still kind of tight and workers are doing okay. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.880 Yeah, I mean I think you know Tim menche first 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:21.720 of all, Carol, great to be back, Thank you for 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.240 inviting me back, the two of you. But he just 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:29.920 mentioned the ADP report. Not only was that job number terrific, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.760 but I hope you saw that soutres a up five 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.000 point one percent year over year. I mean, I think 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.440 that's the best news. We at Working Nation try to 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.320 do everything from that personal standpoint, and when people are 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.240 making more money, it's a happier kitchen table, whether they're 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.239 using Costco skin cream or Chopolo chips. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.480 Or not fair. I love it. 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.720 Hey, what's not to love right now about the job market? 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.160 So I'll tell you what bothers me the most. It's 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:01.120 the labor market participation rate. You know, we know at 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.640 sixty two and a half percent, we know that there 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.720 are able, bodied, talented people sitting on the sidelines, and 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.920 there are lots of employers saying they are desperate for help. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:12.560 You know. 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.360 I think that's why we tell the kinds of stories 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.160 we tell at Working Nation. We're trying to motivate people 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.800 there is a good job for you right now, and 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.679 people don't believe you because you hear these stories, and 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.320 I'm sure you can hear them all the time. People 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.840 send in it a resume after resume and hear nothing. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.440 It's crickets. So they don't get any feedback on why 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:35.520 they didn't get the job. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.800 That's so frustrating for people. I've seen them talking about 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.600 this online. I mean, s's TikTok. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.160 I think that's that's hard. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.320 Yeah, Hey, one thing I wanted to ask about. Go ahead, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:46.200 Can I just ask you though? 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:46.360 So? 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.360 What is the disconnect? I'm looking at my Bloomberg and 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.720 I'm looking at the US labor force participation rate and 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.520 where we were at twenty nineteen. We were up around 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.280 not quite at sixty three. I'm looking at where we are. Yeah, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.360 we were above sixty three, and here we are at 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.160 sixty two and a half. I mean, you see certainly 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.760 that we have not gotten back to that level. So 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.240 is it what's the disconnect? Is it older people who 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.319 just retired and they've left the workforce, or like what 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:12.880 is it? Like? 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.000 What's going on? You know? 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.800 I think there were some retirements post COVID, and some 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.839 of them may have been earlier than people had anticipated. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.920 I've seen it in my own family of members who 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:24.800 you know, were like kind of done, you know, and 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.880 just were able to take earlier retirement. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.000 Yeah, and you hope that they're happy with that, you know, 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.079 those people that made it as a free will choice, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.080 that's great. Those people that were kind of pushed out. 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:36.960 We want to try to get them back in and 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.320 say there's a place for it. But I'll tell you what. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.080 It worries me that it's a lot of younger workers 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.680 because you know, in last month's jobs numbers, you saw 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.240 that youth unemployment sixteen to twenty year old it was 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.800 twelve and a half percent. Now, that's really scary. Those 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.719 are young people looking for work who couldn't find it. 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:59.079 So I hope we get better at defining the skills 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.839 that are needed for jobs, and people get better at 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:03.160 defining their own skills. 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.839 Hey, you know, what's what's interesting to me? 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.199 I'm playing up this. Carol had this. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.800 On is what's interesting to him today? But that's okay, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:12.480 that's another story. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.280 Carol had this on her terminal and she was looking 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.760 at it just now, so I peeked over. It is 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.320 a chart that shows the labor force participation rate, and 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:20.400 I have it going all the way back to the 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.160 nineteen forties on. Here we've been in a steady decline 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.560 since the year two thousand, basically two thousand. 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.320 Yeah, what's what's been going on here? 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.320 You know, I wish I could get that answer, because 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.960 then I could solve it. Right, I think it's a 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.280 mosaic of causes. You know, this idea. You know, right 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.120 around that time, in the early two thousands, people started 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:47.680 experimenting with that software that could sort your resumes for you. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.400 And you know, while that software has gotten better, I 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.640 still think it excludes a lot of talented people. 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.480 So you're saying the participation rate is reflective of people 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:58.760 not being able to get jobs. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:14:59.920 I believe. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.120 Yes, that's interesting. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.400 So it's not necessarily people choosing not to participate in 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.320 a labor for us because the job the jobs are 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:07.920 out there. I mean, look at we we look at 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.880 the Jolts numbers that we got earlier this week were 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.280 more than eight million job openings. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.120 But part of it is geography. You know, you guys 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.520 are based in New York. Would you move to Iowa 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.480 for a job? You know, I'm based in Virginia. As 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.240 you said, I wouldn't move anywhere for a job. At 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.600 this point, you know, I mean and and so I 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.200 think people are really they're hearing about these millions of 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.120 open jobs, but they're really not adjacent to where they 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:32.680 want to live. 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:35.560 But it also means that those people have the luxury 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.600 of not moving right, that somehow they're supporting themselves, Like 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.880 you know, unemployment benefits only go for so long. And 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.880 I guess what I'm trying to understand is if if 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.000 companies have these openings and they really want the jobs filled, 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.520 they'll find the people. So I also wonder if companies 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.600 are kind of holding back a little bit because you know, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.880 they just want to make sure that they have, you know, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.040 the workers they need, and they don't want to overhire. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:06.320 Like I feel like companies have gotten really careful about that, Carol. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.360 I think you're exactly right. You know, probably the eighteen 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.560 months as we were coming out of COVID, people were 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.520 over hiring. You saw it in every people weren't going 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.880 to show up. Yeah, and now they're kind of right sizing. 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.960 But they still they post these jobs because they don't 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.320 want talented people not to think they're hiring. 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.640 Okay, we got to talk AI with you because I 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.680 don't think we've had a chance, you don't think you've 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.760