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Speaker 2: All Right starts a pretty regular hit on Sundays between
Speaker 2: John Middlkoff, a former NFL scout with Philadelphia who has
Speaker 2: been obviously a regular on this podcast network since I
Speaker 2: think pretty much Day one go lows his golf podcasts
Speaker 2: as well. So you know, I was thinking about this
Speaker 2: that when I built a volume, one of the things
Speaker 2: I think about all the time is I think of
Speaker 2: it a little bit like a swimming area. Stay in
Speaker 2: your lane, like there are things I know and things
Speaker 2: I don't. We have a series of people. You're a
Speaker 2: football guy and a golf guy, Like everybody has sort
Speaker 2: of a lane. And it's worked that way. And I've
Speaker 2: seen that most of my life in corporate America, and
Speaker 2: in corporate America, when you have problems is when people
Speaker 2: think you know, a sales guy suddenly comes up and
Speaker 2: wants to talk to me about content. ESPN was famous
Speaker 2: for that. Here, I've got a segment I think could
Speaker 2: work well for a car dealership, and I'm like, I'll
Speaker 2: create segments. If you can sell them, you sell them.
Speaker 2: But iHeart has never asked me to do a segment
Speaker 2: because they found a sponsor. Like, that's not the way
Speaker 2: it works. It shouldn't work that way. So Belichick, prime example,
Speaker 2: got into trouble. He took over personnel. Pete Carroll and
Speaker 2: Seattle got into trouble. He and John Snyder. Once John
Speaker 2: Snyder the last couple of years took over personnel. Seahawks
Speaker 2: had back to back great drafts. They had several where
Speaker 2: Pete had influence, where they just kept missing on first
Speaker 2: round picks. Rashad Penny the running back's a great example
Speaker 2: where like everything was a reach. So when the players
Speaker 2: vote on the NFL Top one hundred, it's illuminating. It
Speaker 2: lets you look into what matters to players. They love athleticism.
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson is the voted the number one quarterback over
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes because he's viewed as hyper athletic. This is
Speaker 2: the NBA players a majority thinking Westbrooks better than Steph
Speaker 2: Curry despite the fact they're both guards. One can't shoot
Speaker 2: and has bad hands, like the two most important things
Speaker 2: for a gar.
Speaker 1: Jokic wants Russell Westbrook on his teams, like what are
Speaker 1: we doing?
Speaker 2: What are we doing? So it's interesting. I don't have
Speaker 2: a problem. I love Lamar, He's not Patrick Mahomes. But
Speaker 2: it's interesting they have Dak Prescott ahead of Matt Stafford
Speaker 2: and Joe Burrow. There is not that's not nobody thinks
Speaker 2: that like in the league when you talk to personnel people.
Speaker 2: I mean, Dak Struggles were the best offensive line for
Speaker 2: years in football to win a single playoff game. Burrow
Speaker 2: got to the Super Bowl with an egregiously bad offensive line.
Speaker 2: So in the days that you were working for the Eagles.
Speaker 2: I look at the top one hundred. I'm not offended
Speaker 2: by it, but it illuminates how players view the world.
Speaker 2: Hyper Athleticism is viewed on a grand scale for players.
Speaker 1: I just think the way personnel departments and coaches work
Speaker 1: in the NBA. If the Warriors are going to do
Speaker 1: something big, they talk with Steph Curry. Obviously, Lebron James
Speaker 1: has a huge hand in personnel and sometimes it works,
Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't, but you got to keep him happy.
Speaker 1: The most famous dynasty of my life, the Patriots, never
Speaker 1: asked Tom Brady's opinion one time. Now it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they shouldn't have it, but they never never even cross
Speaker 1: Bill's mind. Andy is not asking Patrick Mahomes, you know
Speaker 1: his for his draft board, right or in free agency. Now,
Speaker 1: when a player plays somebody, if you play Lamar Jackson
Speaker 1: and he kicks your ass and you go, that was
Speaker 1: really good? Like that, there's something to be said. But
Speaker 1: in the NFL, you don't play every team. So in
Speaker 1: the NFC, only four teams in the NFC played the
Speaker 1: Ravens last year. Right, it rotates every four years, so
Speaker 1: half the league is not even playing this player. And
Speaker 1: then there are teams in the AFC that aren't playing
Speaker 1: them either. Colin this ranking, which I honestly have to
Speaker 1: fake even caring about, I do not care about this,
Speaker 1: and the Madden rankings which had Lamar and Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: right here, Josh Allen is a better player than Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 1: He's He's a better player. Yeah, the Chiefs feared Josh Allen.
Speaker 1: They just played him both back to back playoffs on
Speaker 1: the road. They feared Josh Allen. They were excited to
Speaker 1: play Lamar again. That's not saying that Lamar's not good.
Speaker 1: They knew they could handle Lamar. Josh Allen has kind
Speaker 1: of owned them. This is in the playoffs. The reason
Speaker 1: the Bills haven't won was Sean McDermott the defense, not Josh.
Speaker 1: To me, there is a gap again Lamar's regular season
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, he hasn't been remotely the same. No, no,
Speaker 1: and that's a big problem for a team that at
Speaker 1: this point in time, Like, we're not judging the Ravens
Speaker 1: on twelve wins, thirteen wins, like who cares? Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I expect the Ravens to be in the playoffs. He's
Speaker 1: getting judged on those couple of games, just like Mahomes.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing with Josh. He hasn't won, but
Speaker 1: I think we all go.
Speaker 3: Not totally his fault, right.
Speaker 1: They were Peyton manning games early when I remember being
Speaker 1: in like early in college and high school, and I
Speaker 1: love Peyton and I was like, this doesn't look like
Speaker 1: the same guy. Have just watched for sixteen weeks. And
Speaker 1: that's how Lamar felt in the big games. Or Mahomes,
Speaker 1: he's like he's like a chameleon. He's morphed. He was
Speaker 1: like one point in time he was throwing like Dan Marino.
Speaker 1: Now he's became a game manager this year because of
Speaker 1: his team. It's like he can do it all.
Speaker 2: Do you know the one position that they have asked
Speaker 2: mahomes opinion in the draft? It's the one position Kansas
Speaker 2: City drafts poorly, wide receiver. So they have asked Mahomes
Speaker 2: from time to time for an opinion on college receivers.
Speaker 2: And I imagine they listen to him if they ask
Speaker 2: Brett Veach drafts everything great except wide receiver. And my
Speaker 2: take is he has an influence if you ask, because
Speaker 2: I heard they have asked mahomes opinion on wide receivers. Well,
Speaker 2: if you ask his opinion, he says, I like this guy.
Speaker 2: You're not going to avoid that guy. If he's available,
Speaker 2: you're probably gonna And it's the one position where they've
Speaker 2: been really immature. Tony immature, Rashi Rice immature. Xavier Worthy,
Speaker 2: I think that's his name out of Texas.
Speaker 1: Yea, it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean he's one hundred and sixty pounds. I mean
Speaker 2: you can jam him up on the line. He'll make
Speaker 2: spectacular plays. But he's he's pretty talented. Go Collin, No, no,
Speaker 2: he is. I'm not disputing that. But there's also a
Speaker 2: video all over practice of him getting tossed around like
Speaker 2: a crew ton and a salad bowl, just getting thrown
Speaker 2: all over the field.
Speaker 1: Deshaun Waite a hundred. Now, DeShawn was more talented, I
Speaker 1: think than this player. He went in the second round
Speaker 1: because there were a ton of question marks when you
Speaker 1: have the elite speed. Now, DeShawn was a great route runner.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people view Xavier Worthy as
Speaker 1: more than just a go route guy if he can
Speaker 1: do everything else. Andy has a soft spot for guys
Speaker 1: with a little trouble, Like Andy's not afraid of those.
Speaker 1: Bill just wants wants to avoid that at all costs.
Speaker 1: For the most part, Andy kind of embraces it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying like, and that's the Tony's even tyreek.
Speaker 1: Early on, Kelsey was a character guy coming out of
Speaker 1: high school. So I think Andy feels pretty comfortable that
Speaker 1: he can mold that. But overall, the quarterback ranking, you
Speaker 1: can not have an NFL quarterback ranking and not have
Speaker 1: Josh Allen second. And I take you seriously, you can't
Speaker 1: do it. I think he's the second best quarterback and honestly,
Speaker 1: like I have more faith in him winning. It's on
Speaker 1: the organization. But I've seen him be awesome in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I mean, say what you want about you know the Bengals,
Speaker 1: who the owner's been cheap, they have proven over the
Speaker 1: last twenty years. They've had moments with Marvin Lewis and
Speaker 1: Carson Palmer, some really good teams with Marvin Lewis and
Speaker 1: the Andy Dalton teams like they can build a team.
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow benefitted two years ago. Their team was talented.
Speaker 2: So I was thinking like like, and I'm not. It's
Speaker 2: just people are different and I'm not traditional, so I
Speaker 2: can move my wife's the same way. We can move
Speaker 2: on a dime. And the kickoff rules. It's quirky looking,
Speaker 2: but just the new kickoff rules. Think about it in
Speaker 2: terms of when they changed the pat it became a
Speaker 2: real play, one of those your kicker misses one about
Speaker 2: every third week unless you have the Unless you have
Speaker 2: the Braven's kicker. So seven of eight kicks were returned
Speaker 2: in the Hall of Fame game. Seventy three percent of
Speaker 2: kicks last year went through the end zone or touchbacks.
Speaker 2: You get an extra play about six to seven time
Speaker 2: a game. There were only like four balls kickoffs taken
Speaker 2: for touchdowns last year. It almost never happens.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean like it may happen. It basically in the NFL
Speaker 2: happens every six weeks. It happens once. You don't even
Speaker 2: get that many. I mean, if a guy gets a
Speaker 2: midfield or the other team's forty, it's considered a huge return.
Speaker 2: So the NFL basically said, we just want more plays.
Speaker 2: So I said this on the air, is that the
Speaker 2: NFL constantly adjusts Baseball did when it had to. I mean,
Speaker 2: Fox basically went to Baseball and said, we're not really
Speaker 2: interested in signing you to another deal. Speed the game up.
Speaker 2: So Fox literally told him how to tweak their schedule
Speaker 2: speed the game up. ESPN, by the way, has no
Speaker 2: interest from what I've heard in resigning baseball Lachlan Murdoch,
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear in our building, it's not like baseball
Speaker 2: is a priority. Baseball has changed when it's fundamentally had to,
Speaker 2: or networks just don't want to do business with them,
Speaker 2: and they have sped the game up. But it's a
Speaker 2: different time and it does still feel like it lacks
Speaker 2: juice and energy and pacing. So but the NFL in
Speaker 2: a leadership role. I always said this about Tiger Woods,
Speaker 2: number one golfer in the world, number one and change clubs.
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey had the number one ratings and she literally
Speaker 2: changed her show to more of an ethereal quality of life,
Speaker 2: elevation of life show. She was number one Tiger and
Speaker 2: Oprah changed. NFL does this number one pulling away and
Speaker 2: makes changes. That's different from somebody going John, if you
Speaker 2: don't quit smoking, you die. I'm not going to give
Speaker 2: you a ton of credit for quitting when the option
Speaker 2: is you're dead if you don't start exercising and stop smoking.
Speaker 2: So baseball is a little bit like change or we're
Speaker 2: just not interested in resigning you to long term deals.
Speaker 2: So I guess my point is on the preseason thing.
Speaker 2: People can fight it, but John, I watched it, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's I It was the first time I
Speaker 2: can remember watching every kickoff.
Speaker 1: It was fascinating. I'm totally behind doing out with the
Speaker 1: old because it was not working, but I watched. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of sick. I probably watch a coach press
Speaker 1: conference a day different, you know, throughout the league out.
Speaker 1: I ran into Sean Payton's yesterday. Because you get the
Speaker 1: right coaches, they're giving you nuggets left.
Speaker 2: And right, all sorts of nuggets.
Speaker 1: And I saw this a couple of weeks ago aheadline
Speaker 1: that the Packers special teams coach Rich Pasacia, probably the
Speaker 1: number one herald the special teams coach in the league,
Speaker 1: said the league might change things throughout the preseason. Sean
Speaker 1: Payton doubled down on that. So I think they've told
Speaker 1: everyone and this is where they deserve credit. We did this,
Speaker 1: but we are not afraid to tweak it before week
Speaker 1: one if we see different things. Because Sean Payton mentioned this,
Speaker 1: and I do agree, there's a lot of moving parts
Speaker 1: with where the ball could end up, and he's like,
Speaker 1: it's hard to follow. It's hard for us the coaches,
Speaker 1: it took us a while. The fans cannot follow this,
Speaker 1: like if one goes out of bounds, if one goes
Speaker 1: through the end zone, and obviously if you don't get
Speaker 1: it to the front square. There are different yard lines.
Speaker 1: I think one's twenty five, one's thirty, and one's forty
Speaker 1: might be thirty five. He's like, it's too confusing. His
Speaker 1: Sean Payton's pushback was, I'm totally cool with this change
Speaker 1: of the formation, but just have one or the other right.
Speaker 1: If you kick it out of the end zone or
Speaker 1: kick it out of bounds, it starts at the forty
Speaker 1: and if you kick it, if you don't kick it
Speaker 1: to the square, started at the twenty. But you can't
Speaker 1: have too many complications. And I agreed with that. The
Speaker 1: one thing I think again, it was preseason game, the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame game. You could even have that in
Speaker 1: his own category, like there's preseason, then there's whatever the
Speaker 1: hell that is. I know it got ut out or whatever,
Speaker 1: but I mean the people playing. I thought there would
Speaker 1: be more just open lanes, and I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: take too much away. It felt like the offensive players
Speaker 1: because this guy gets a running start five yards, I
Speaker 1: do have to back up immediately. And I in the
Speaker 1: old rule I had more space so I could back
Speaker 1: up and then attack. There's not really that much space.
Speaker 1: And there were a couple of times when everyone just
Speaker 1: went by him and the offensive guy was swallowed. So
Speaker 1: and I assume the opposite. I was like, you're only
Speaker 1: going to have to make a guy or two miss.
Speaker 1: It's why, like Deebo Samuel's like, I want in because
Speaker 1: in theory you think it's going to be easy, but
Speaker 1: then you watch it in practice, you're like, maybe it's
Speaker 1: not going to be as I would say offensive as
Speaker 1: you it's going to be harder than who knows. Maybe
Speaker 1: we'll see all sorts of stuff. But Sean Payton said this,
Speaker 1: He's like, if the average if you're kicking in the
Speaker 1: square and the average where they end up with the
Speaker 1: ball is at the thirty eight yard line, over like
Speaker 1: a two or three week period, every coach is going
Speaker 1: to kick it in the end zone, start at the
Speaker 1: thirty right. We'll just play the numbers, which would be bad,
Speaker 1: which would negate everything they're trying to do and the
Speaker 1: league obviously understands this, so they're trying. They want it
Speaker 1: to be a play.
Speaker 2: So a former NFL quarterback texted me the draft, and
Speaker 2: I wrote this note down and I was, I have
Speaker 2: notepads all over my house and I found this the
Speaker 2: other day and I didn't bring it up, and it's
Speaker 2: really interesting.
Speaker 1: Tom Brady alf draft takes.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go there, but he said, this
Speaker 2: is not a small thing. Caleb Williams defensive coach, Jaden
Speaker 2: Daniels defensive coach, Drake May defensive coach, rookie, he said,
Speaker 2: and Michael Pennix in Atlanta backup defensive coach. He said,
Speaker 2: don't be surprised if bow Nicks and JJ McCarthy with
Speaker 2: really really bright offensive coaches in one year. If we
Speaker 2: don't look up and go, those are the best two quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: And this quarterback said, man, when you come into this league,
Speaker 2: and this quarterback spoke from experience, he goes, I had
Speaker 2: a defensive coach first, he said, it's a different language.
Speaker 2: He said, bow Knicks and JJ McCarthy are getting a
Speaker 2: master class level coaching experience that Pennix isn't getting with
Speaker 2: a coordinator, Caleb's not getting he said. This guy said,
Speaker 2: it's just he goes, and he said this he goes.
Speaker 2: People bang on Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson for not
Speaker 2: winning playoff games. He said, if you gave Josh Allen
Speaker 2: to Andy Reid, do you think he'd have a super Bowl?
Speaker 2: And his thing was, of course he would. So it's
Speaker 2: just interesting is that we every year in this draft, John,
Speaker 2: there's a quarterback drafted below the star. Very rarely is
Speaker 2: the first quarterback taken the guy c J Stroud too,
Speaker 2: Bryce YOUMP, So I'm not just saying now, c J.
Speaker 2: Stroud got a great coach, a great coordinator, tanked Dell
Speaker 2: Nicole Collins they had on draft picks. But your take
Speaker 2: on because Kevin O connell is highly respected, I mean
Speaker 2: the tall Sean McVay, Sean Payton, I spent a lot
Speaker 2: of time with Sean. Shawn is way too smart to
Speaker 2: be broadcasting. He has to be coaching. I think the
Speaker 2: best over bet in the league is Bonecks at five
Speaker 2: and a half. Like the old line's pretty good. If
Speaker 2: the Franklin kid from Oregon works with Mems and Courtland Sutton,
Speaker 2: they have workable tight ends. Two backs I think are capable.
Speaker 2: What do you make of that that the first year
Speaker 2: rookie quarterback the two with offensive coaches who are deeper
Speaker 2: in the draft could be the hits.
Speaker 1: Well, as I'm watching the Sean Payton press conference on
Speaker 1: my iPhone at ten thirty at nine in my bed
Speaker 1: next to my future wife, she's probably think I'm a nut.
Speaker 1: He mentioned the name multiple times in Drew Brees and
Speaker 1: obviously getting rid of the football is a big deal.
Speaker 1: And the other thing he hammered home is like people
Speaker 1: act like I just want to dink and dunk, like
Speaker 1: that's the offense. No, we want to push the ball
Speaker 1: down the field, and that is the game plan. So
Speaker 1: I think the way that he talked about this guy
Speaker 1: in the press conference was a lot of love. I
Speaker 1: think he is really really high well. I think he
Speaker 1: liked his like his rookie class. The way he was talking,
Speaker 1: I think he's pretty excited about his team. This did
Speaker 1: not feel like, you know, I think a younger Sean
Speaker 1: Bill Parcells guy. If he's not happy, you can feel it.
Speaker 1: He looked pretty excited with the group he has. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean they're gonna win eleven games. I'm kind of out
Speaker 1: on Washington this year, not because I don't think Jayden
Speaker 1: Daniels isn't really talented, but they're not that good. They
Speaker 1: haven't been. They got rid of multiple d linemen. Now
Speaker 1: you could say Chase Young's a little overrated. Monte Sweat
Speaker 1: is not so that they lose talent there, they just
Speaker 1: are not as talented as obviously. The Eagles are the
Speaker 1: cowboys that divisions hard. The Giants have some players and
Speaker 1: day ball, you have like he has been coaching, now
Speaker 1: he's calling the offense. I could see the Washington just
Speaker 1: having a rough season, and that's where you know big.
Speaker 1: Of course they should. They've been been bad. They're resetting.
Speaker 1: But when you're a quarterback and you don't have your
Speaker 1: play caller and then all of a sudden, these are
Speaker 1: offensive play caller good enough, Cliff Kingsbury, you see a
Speaker 1: lot with defensive guys they start getting pressure, well who
Speaker 1: they point the finger at the offensive play caller when
Speaker 1: it goes wrong. It goes to Kyle Shanahan or Andy
Speaker 1: Reid or Sean Payton or Kyle Shanahan and they go,
Speaker 1: we'll fix it, and you go, yeah, they will. They'll
Speaker 1: figure it out. And that's where it gets difficult. I
Speaker 1: mean New England they feel a little bit like a
Speaker 1: shit show right now. You know, no team in the
Speaker 1: league has spent less cash. I've read this and heard
Speaker 1: people say this over the last decade than them. I
Speaker 1: mean that speaks one to the brilliants of Tom Brady
Speaker 1: and Belichick building a team. But also I think there's
Speaker 1: a knock on the craft can be a little cheap.
Speaker 1: They like to do the most with the least amount,
Speaker 1: where I think a lot of teams, like the Niners
Speaker 1: of the Cowboy, they'll spend whatever it takes to try
Speaker 1: to win. Like he's always it wasn't just Belichick being cheap.
Speaker 1: You know, it felt like a kind of a mandate.
Speaker 1: You have this rookie head coach who's not that far
Speaker 1: removed from being a player. You got this defensive star
Speaker 1: players underpaid that they had a kick out of practice.
Speaker 1: It's getting weird. Diana Russini says, you know they've made
Speaker 1: an offer to him at Judon that he's saying bullshit.
Speaker 1: It's just there's a lot going on. The quarterback situation.
Speaker 1: They have this major project. We've seen a million times.
Speaker 1: What history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. I've
Speaker 1: seen Jacoby Brissett in a scenario on a bad team
Speaker 1: thirty times in my life. We know exactly how this goes.
Speaker 1: The record's terrible before Halloween, right around there, it's like,
Speaker 1: we can't take this anymore. Throw the kid in. The
Speaker 1: team's awful, and it can Jared Goff go the wrong
Speaker 1: way and they got lucky. McVeigh came in the next
Speaker 1: year and saved everything. But it goes the wrong way
Speaker 1: with a situation like that, like dried Mayo ain't calling
Speaker 1: the offensive place. You can just see how it gets ugly.
Speaker 1: Even again, dan Quinn, he did inherit Matt Ryan. It's
Speaker 1: a little harder with a young quarterback who, let's face it,
Speaker 1: Malik Nighbors looks like a bigger thicker Odell Beckham from
Speaker 1: eight years ago. And the other wide receiver went in
Speaker 1: the top twenty five, and Brian Kelly got a pretty
Speaker 1: good history of developing offensive players at Notre Dame, at
Speaker 1: Cincinnati and now here, So I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: dan Quinn got and I like dan Quinn. He did
Speaker 1: get a job with Matt Ryan and Julio Jones on
Speaker 1: the roster, so it's just they were kind of a
Speaker 1: little more. They were already good, but Matt Ryan had
Speaker 1: already been in the playoffs. Star it's a lot more difficult.
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this today. If you know
Speaker 1: in that Giants dock when they tried to trade up
Speaker 1: from three to six and Elliott Wolf essentially at the
Speaker 1: end of the day said no, unless you give me
Speaker 1: some godfather offer, not going to entertain it. If I
Speaker 1: told you Drake May was with Daball who spent the
Speaker 1: four years you know with Josh Allen, you would like
Speaker 1: that scenario a lot more. Yes, when you put a
Speaker 1: project on just a god awful team whose coach, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a decent doesn't mean he doesn't know football, but
Speaker 1: he's never been remotely close to a position like this.
Speaker 1: And now the fans are already turning on the owner
Speaker 1: because of everything that went on with the Apple documentary
Speaker 1: and the treatment of Beli. It's just weird. It's hard
Speaker 1: to overcome that. I saw it when I was in
Speaker 1: college with Alex Smith. The Niners were just a joke
Speaker 1: that we used to joke in college. Could Pete Carroll's
Speaker 1: team beat the Niners? And it was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of people would argue, I don't know,
Speaker 1: they got about fifteen first rounders and this Niner team
Speaker 1: struggled to win like four games, and Alex went there
Speaker 1: and it was his career was an embarrassment, and then
Speaker 1: he got real coaches and what happened? You're like, Alex,
Speaker 1: it's pretty good. Yeah, it's and he's he's as mature
Speaker 1: and smart of a quarterback that is coming to the
Speaker 1: league last twenty five years. It is really really hard
Speaker 1: to overcome negativity losing a coach who's not really comfortable.
Speaker 1: So I guess that's a long winded way of saying,
Speaker 1: like I I think it's so much easier when you're
Speaker 1: When you're head coach, is the guy pulling the trigger
Speaker 1: on the play call, he impacts the game. I'd never
Speaker 1: quite understand, Like Sirianni, like, what really is he doing
Speaker 1: on game?
Speaker 4: Dad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, not calling a play, you know, toughness, Like is
Speaker 1: he say this about Dan Campbell, Like obviously he's adding
Speaker 1: an element of toughness to it.
Speaker 2: Are both doing that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're in a different category. But there are some guys,
Speaker 1: you know, is Dan Quinn calling the defense? Is Drive
Speaker 1: Mail calling the defense? So they if they take that
Speaker 1: part away. So it's why when Robert Sala gets the
Speaker 1: Jets job, he immediately goes, I'm not gonna be the coordinator.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, what the fucking I hire you for?
Speaker 1: Just to give ross peaches. I mean, you've had two
Speaker 1: good years as a coordinator and now you're giving up
Speaker 1: the asset in which I hired you for. Part of
Speaker 1: being the head coaches, you gotta lead, You got to
Speaker 1: you gotta motivate, you gotta run practice and ideally call
Speaker 1: one side of the ball. That's what all these coaches do.
Speaker 1: There's a rare group of people. Harbaugh's a great example
Speaker 1: who can dominate Bill Parcells. Most guys have to be
Speaker 1: pretty hands on in this modern day of football, right
Speaker 1: the games. This is not nineteen eighty seven where I
Speaker 1: can win most of my games seventeen to thirteen. If
Speaker 1: I got the toughest guys, I can beat the shit
Speaker 1: out of you.
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Speaker 2: All right, Nick, Right, we haven't talked in a while,
Speaker 2: so I thought this was here's an interesting topic, and
Speaker 2: I bring this up because you're one of the bigger
Speaker 2: NBA fans. Is that some things don't sound don't sound comforting,
Speaker 2: and they may sound almost appalling, but they're true, and
Speaker 2: that treating your employees and paying them more than they
Speaker 2: deserve is really bad business. And that the reason the
Speaker 2: NFL is king it's virtually impossible to find a bad
Speaker 2: contract in the league. I can remember Albert Hainsworth for
Speaker 2: about a year got paid a ton with the Patriots.
Speaker 2: You remember it because it's so infrequent. It may be
Speaker 2: the only bad contract for the Patriots. Every NBA team
Speaker 2: has a terrible contract, some have three. You know, before
Speaker 2: James Dolan got distracted by the Sphere, it was like
Speaker 2: the half the contracts for the next were bad contracts.
Speaker 2: Is that One of the reasons that the NFL is
Speaker 2: king is because they have a weak union, And that
Speaker 2: sounds terrible to say. Players have like Brandon Ayuk. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: we're not going to cave. There's a bunch of good
Speaker 2: receivers in next year's draft. We'll just go draft them. Now.
Speaker 2: I think they want him. They're furious. They know that
Speaker 2: the windows shrinking, their players are getting older. But I
Speaker 2: think I've talked to a lot of guys in the NBA.
Speaker 2: St Frank Vogel the other night at dinner. You know, La,
Speaker 2: you see a lot of pro coaches, like especially where
Speaker 2: I live. There all are in the beast communities, and
Speaker 2: football coaches are happier. Basketball coaches are all miserable, even
Speaker 2: the successful ones. And the reason being is they have
Speaker 2: cost certainty, they have control. In the NFL, you can
Speaker 2: be productive but you're a pain in the ass. I'm
Speaker 2: moving off you. I mean, seven rounds of players half
Speaker 2: the league's undrafted. In the NBA, after the fourteenth pick,
Speaker 2: you run out of players. And this Brandon Ayuk situation
Speaker 2: is interesting because in the NBA he would get paid
Speaker 2: and he may go to coach fired. And in the
Speaker 2: NFL they're like, now we got a bunch of good players.
Speaker 2: Draft will give us nine receivers. We'll give you a number.
Speaker 2: I mean, you didn't make like twenty three million.
Speaker 1: You're not making thirty.
Speaker 2: And I think it really so my point being is
Speaker 2: it not giving the employee everything they want is why
Speaker 2: the NFL succeeds. It forces players to get their shit together.
Speaker 2: Like you don't get that nine year baseball contract. We're
Speaker 2: like year four, five and six. You're like, I'm getting
Speaker 2: my money. The union so strong and Brandon Ayuk, the
Speaker 2: Niners are saying, take it or leave it? Well, take
Speaker 2: it or leave it?
Speaker 4: I actually I so I think I look at I
Speaker 4: might I agree with some of what you're saying. I
Speaker 4: wanted the well, yes, I'm definitely a union guy, But
Speaker 4: I look at this. I look at the NBA and
Speaker 4: the Ayuk thing, separately. So let me deal with the
Speaker 4: NBA thing first. I actually think a huge part of
Speaker 4: the issues that you're describing with the NBA are caused
Speaker 4: by the individual player max. I think so many of
Speaker 4: the if the NBA salary cap was one hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty million, and if you wanted to give Joker one
Speaker 4: hundred and forty of it, you could so many of these.
Speaker 4: So many of the complaints of the NBA go away
Speaker 4: for two reasons. One is one of the reasons NBA
Speaker 4: guys get what I would call non contract benefits, which is,
Speaker 4: I don't want to practice today, Let's not practice today
Speaker 4: those types of things. Is because if you're artificially capping
Speaker 4: what you can pay them and everyone can pay them
Speaker 4: the same, you have to pay them elsewhere. You have
Speaker 4: to be like, Okay, you're actually worth one hundred million
Speaker 4: a year, I can only pay you fifty so, and
Speaker 4: everyone can pay you fifty so, therefore we have to
Speaker 4: give you these fringe benefits like you know what they
Speaker 4: give college football coaches, country club memberships, whatever, in order
Speaker 4: to make up that delta. The other thing the individual
Speaker 4: player cap does is it makes it to where the
Speaker 4: middle class NBA is wildly overpaid, and that's what fans.
Speaker 4: People think fans are gonna get pissed when NBA guys
Speaker 4: are making a million a game. They're not. They're not
Speaker 4: going to be mad when Jason Tatum, who's the best
Speaker 4: player on a champion, makes a million a game. Not
Speaker 4: more mad than there are right now when he makes
Speaker 4: half a million a game. Where people will get mad
Speaker 4: is when they got mad at Tobias Harris. They're like, wait,
Speaker 4: you're the sixty third best player in the league and
Speaker 4: you're making thirty million a year. But that exists because
Speaker 4: of the individual player max. So that's the first that's
Speaker 4: the NBA part. In my opinion. The Ayuk thing. What
Speaker 4: I think is fascinating about Ayuk is people are wondering,
Speaker 4: why are the Niners gonna cave? Why are the Niners
Speaker 4: who are gonna get nothing backup substance for this season
Speaker 4: when they've got to win, when it's the last year theoretically,
Speaker 4: when perty's cheap, when Trent's thirty six million, why are
Speaker 4: they going to cave and trade him at an inopportune time?
Speaker 4: And I said it on the show today, and I
Speaker 4: think it's I think people, I think this will resonate
Speaker 4: with people if they think not of NFL teams but
Speaker 4: of their own workplace, which is it is the leverage
Speaker 4: a Ukaz is I can make it miserable here and
Speaker 4: people don't think about that. Think about any workplace you've
Speaker 4: been in where someone who's important and unfireable or ish
Speaker 4: comes in has a bad attitude. Is shit talking other
Speaker 4: people is bringing the morale? Like bringing every room they
Speaker 4: walk you, they walk into you like, oh that kills
Speaker 4: the vibe, that kills working anywhere. And I think that
Speaker 4: is oddly the leverage au Caz. The leverage i ukaz
Speaker 4: is this can be miserable guys, and if people doubt
Speaker 4: how much of an impact that can have. Read the
Speaker 4: ESPN article today on what happened to the Eagles. Eagles
Speaker 4: were ten and one, they had won like twenty three
Speaker 4: of twenty five games. Yeah, went to Super Bowl, did
Speaker 4: all that, and then what happened to him? Well it
Speaker 4: seems like the coach and the quarterback couldn't be in
Speaker 4: a room one on one together and the whole thing collapsed.
Speaker 4: So I think, oddly, the leverage I you has, or
Speaker 4: any of these guys have, is I can be a
Speaker 4: dick and I can make team meetings and the locker
Speaker 4: room suck. And you if I'm too good to cut,
Speaker 4: what are you going to do?
Speaker 2: So I had an I had a couple of Olympic
Speaker 2: team rants today and I said one of the things
Speaker 2: I said with KD, I said, actually being the all
Speaker 2: time leading scorer cements his legacy. So KD is salt
Speaker 2: to a chef. He makes everything better, eggs, carmel. It
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. You put him on any team to the finals.
Speaker 2: With Westbrook, Lebron couldn't decode Westbrook right. He made the
Speaker 2: Warriors the best team arguably ever. Even in Brooklyn. He
Speaker 2: was outstanding the fact that his teammate wouldn't get the vaccine.
Speaker 2: There's only so much you can do. So and then
Speaker 2: you put him on this team, And I said, if
Speaker 2: you look at even great players, you put Tatum around
Speaker 2: great players, he kind of shrinks, Steph has to adjust
Speaker 2: Embiid clogs it. Lebron takes a leadership role but won't
Speaker 2: score as much. KD works everywhere. Now as long as
Speaker 2: you don't ask him to lead, don't ask him to
Speaker 2: do that, just ask him to fit. He is the
Speaker 2: salt to the chef. Oh We've got it. Everything will
Speaker 2: taste great tonight. So that is that's go ahead, finish. Sorry.
Speaker 2: So it's perfect that he on a collection of the
Speaker 2: world's best players that thirty years from now in a bar,
Speaker 2: you'll be like, who's the leading scorer?
Speaker 4: Jordan?
Speaker 2: No, well Curry not even close? Lebron No, not close. Okay,
Speaker 2: what time out? Let me think, was it Let's go
Speaker 2: back to the Olympics, was it Bill Bradley will no, no, no,
Speaker 2: it's Kevin Durant, And you'll be like, the fuck.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It is like because when you ask players. Mark Fus,
Speaker 2: a buddy of mine, he coaches the Olympics assistant years ago.
Speaker 2: I said, I just asked him, like, like, tell me
Speaker 2: one thing that's just crazy about coaching the Olympics, and
Speaker 2: he just went, Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1: Man, that's all he said.
Speaker 2: Right, So the.
Speaker 4: He is probably if you take the this is something
Speaker 4: Brew hasn't said this exact thing, but he's basically said
Speaker 4: a different version of it, and I think he's right.
Speaker 4: Take the twenty greatest players ever, he's somewhere on the
Speaker 4: close to twenty, but on there, yeah, there is not
Speaker 4: a single one of them that you can simply drop
Speaker 4: on every great team in NBA history, and it definitely
Speaker 4: works other than Dura. Like, I totally totally agree. It
Speaker 4: does not matter the era, the rules, what what redundancy,
Speaker 4: they already have anything. Drop him on any great team
Speaker 4: and it works no great And so that is and
Speaker 4: your point is, I think if if Kevin heard this,
Speaker 4: he would say, that's what I've been saying, which is,
Speaker 4: I don't want to be the leader. When I'm asked
Speaker 4: about leadership, I'm like, that's the coach's shop.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: What I want to do is play basketball. And you
Speaker 4: know what everyone seems to say, say, I'm awesome at
Speaker 4: playing basketball, and you guys tar me, I think, again,
Speaker 4: this is what I think Kevin would say with I'm
Speaker 4: a bad leader, but luckily my job is basketball player,
Speaker 4: not leader, so fuck off. Like I think that's what
Speaker 4: he's say And it's like, it's not a terrible argument
Speaker 4: except for the fact that it seems like the other
Speaker 4: guys in that room of greatness are kind of able
Speaker 4: to multitask it or have somebody alongside him who's also great,
Speaker 4: who can do it for him. And so it is
Speaker 4: it is such a unique thing because I do think
Speaker 4: I do think Durant is I've told you this on
Speaker 4: the podcast before, but I'll say it again. I had
Speaker 4: somebody who is super close with one of the greatest
Speaker 4: players ever and it's not Durant. Say if you if
Speaker 4: we were to line the twenty greatest players up and
Speaker 4: they're all at their peak on a black tip and
Speaker 4: ask someone who didn't know about resumes or anything whatever,
Speaker 4: who they wanted who they think the best guy is,
Speaker 4: and you described it's like, Okay, the points at Michael
Speaker 4: Jordan and it's like, all right, tell me about that guy.
Speaker 4: It's like, well, he's average size, amazing athlete, good not
Speaker 4: great shooter, crazy, crazy competitor. They'd be like, okay, next
Speaker 4: to point it shit. I mean, the most dominant physical
Speaker 4: force is you know, gonna come and go with effort,
Speaker 4: is going to be a liability at the free throw line,
Speaker 4: but is going to give you a guaranteed thirty Okay, Nora.
Speaker 4: They pointed Lebron all right, not the best shooter in
Speaker 4: the room, not the best dribbler, probably the best passer,
Speaker 4: and is probably the best athlete. Okay, what about that guy, oh, Durant, Well,
Speaker 4: he's the second tallest person here. He's also the second
Speaker 4: best shooter. He's also the fourth best dribbler. He also
Speaker 4: can pass, he can defend, and they'd be like, well,
Speaker 4: I'm fucking taking him. They're like, wait, he's the second
Speaker 4: tallest and the second best shooter. They're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: he can do that. Is he durable? Well, he's gonna
Speaker 4: play twenty years, like the can't. Is he a terrible defender?
Speaker 1: No, he can.
Speaker 4: He can, you know, credibly guard a bunch of response.
Speaker 4: But despite that, he's probably kind of underachieved. And I like, so,
Speaker 4: I like all of those things are true, and it's
Speaker 4: because of that leadership component that he has been honest about, like,
Speaker 4: I don't think that's my job, so I'm not going
Speaker 4: to do it. And I think it's fascinating because when
Speaker 4: he looks best around the best, and then other guys
Speaker 4: when they're around the best, you're like, oh, you're a
Speaker 4: grade lower, like Tatum. Tatum's around the best, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: you're just a grade lower. Durant's around the best, and
Speaker 4: you're like, are you the best player alive? Like it's
Speaker 4: such a fascinating thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah no. And I think somebody said this once that
Speaker 2: the greatest athletes. You wouldn't really want them to be
Speaker 2: your boss because they have such bad personal tendencies. They're
Speaker 2: very selfish, they're relentless, they're harsh. I mean, Jordan could
Speaker 2: be just not just not a giver, a taker. Same
Speaker 2: with the Lake Kobe Bryant. But Kevin Durant actually would
Speaker 2: be a fun hang like he would be you could
Speaker 2: do eighty two games and it'd be like he'd get
Speaker 2: a drink with you, you know, they're you would just
Speaker 2: he would make you laugh when you were having a
Speaker 2: bad day. He'd put his arm around you and goes, okay, bro,
Speaker 2: let's just go HP.
Speaker 4: I totally agree with this, I and I it's one
Speaker 4: of the I've tried kind of I don't want to
Speaker 4: say behind the scenes, but I know some people that
Speaker 4: are tight with Kevin and listen, at one point, I
Speaker 4: you know, I know, I know definitively that Kevin, you know,
Speaker 4: thought I was one of the people's kind of a
Speaker 4: problem with the media, and that's like, that's his right,
Speaker 4: that's fine. But I have tried to kind of throw
Speaker 4: back channels like political stuff, like try to set up
Speaker 4: a situation where he and I could sit and talk
Speaker 4: basketball or sit and talk, because over the last four years,
Speaker 4: I have grown to have such affection, if you will,
Speaker 4: for kind of just how comfortable he is in his
Speaker 4: own skin, like the he's gone a long way from
Speaker 4: the burners and all that stuff. It's like, nah, if
Speaker 4: I think you're full of shit on the Internet, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna tell you. Like I thought it was hilarious that
Speaker 4: like a couple of days into the Olympics, on and
Speaker 4: off he was arguing with strangers on the internet on Twitter.
Speaker 4: It's like, dude, you're you got half a billion dollars
Speaker 4: your single, You're wildly famous in the Olympic village in Paris,
Speaker 4: and you're like, I got to get these tweets off, man,
Speaker 4: I don't care. I'm gonna sit here and argue with
Speaker 4: you guys about basketball. And I was like, I just
Speaker 4: I found it charming. And I also think he has
Speaker 4: such an immense respect for the game itself that I
Speaker 4: really like. So I like Durant. I really like Durant,
Speaker 4: And I do I agree with you like he would.
Speaker 4: I do think he'd be a great guy to be,
Speaker 4: you know, to be on a team with. And I
Speaker 4: do think he'd be of all the superstars one of
Speaker 4: the best hangs and that's also it's also probably helpful.
Speaker 4: He's one of the only superstars of that level that's
Speaker 4: still like a single guy, like hanging out with the
Speaker 4: fellas like Steph and Lebron. Everybody's married with kids. Durance
Speaker 4: is like, Nah, I'm gonna play video games, smoke a
Speaker 4: little weed and play basketball. Like I don't know about
Speaker 4: you guys. Spell them a life man.
Speaker 1: The volume.
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