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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and iHeart podcast

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Speaker 2: and Unbothered Network production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical?

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Speaker 2: Did you all know that this year's NFL MVP racist

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Speaker 2: kind disorder about race?

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Speaker 1: Now before some of.

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Speaker 2: You get upset and start reflexively throwing out words y'all

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Speaker 2: don't even fully understand like woke and di and Marxist,

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Speaker 2: let me explain. The MVP race is down to Buffalo

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Speaker 2: Bills quarterback Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson of the Baltimore Ravens.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: Both of these quarterbacks have had fine seasons and both

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Speaker 2: are worthy of the MVP. As of this recording, Allen

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Speaker 2: has accounted for forty touchdowns this season, committed fewer than

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Speaker 2: eight turnovers, and after the Bills beat the Patriots in

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Speaker 2: Week sixteen, Alan Todd Russell Wilson for most wins by

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Speaker 2: a quarterback in the first seven seasons of his career

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Speaker 2: with seventy five.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: On top of all of that, Josh Allen has only

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Speaker 2: been set fourteen times.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Allen also is only playing with two other Pro Bowlers

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Speaker 2: on offense, and this season the Bills have beaten both

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Speaker 2: the Chiefs and the Lions, who are the number one

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Speaker 2: seeds in their respective conferences.

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Speaker 1: Hella impressive.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, Lamar Jackson, he's having a better

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Speaker 2: season this season than he did last season when he

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Speaker 2: won his second MVP. Now, if you stack his numbers

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Speaker 2: up against Josh Allens, he's beating Josh Allen in virtually

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Speaker 2: every significant category completion percentage, touchdown passes, passing yards, rushing yards,

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Speaker 2: and he also has an overall higher passer rating. Now

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Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson is the first player in NFL history to

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Speaker 2: throw for over four thousand yards and rush for over

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Speaker 2: nine hundred. He also broke Michael Vick's career rushing yards

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Speaker 2: record for a quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Again, hella impressive.

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Speaker 2: Now, these are the stats which obviously have nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with race, But as we've seen throughout Lamar Jackson's

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Speaker 2: NFL career, when it comes to him in particular, race

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Speaker 2: is always lurking somewhere in the background, and sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: right in front of our faces. One of the most

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Speaker 2: common arguments being used to support Allen receiving the MVP

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Speaker 2: over Lamar Jackson is that Lamar Jackson already has won

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Speaker 2: the award twice and therefore it's just time to give

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Speaker 2: it to someone else. Now, that's a weird argument to make,

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Speaker 2: but one we've seen you before in sports. Cut to

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan's prime MVP years. Michael Jordan easily could have

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Speaker 2: won the MVP more than five times, but there was

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Speaker 2: this sense that voters were getting tired of giving it

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Speaker 2: to him. People point to Charles Barkley winning the MVP

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Speaker 2: for his spectacular ninety two to ninety three season and

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Speaker 2: Karl Malone winning it in nineteen ninety seven as examples

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Speaker 2: of Jordan being robbed of the MVP simply because of

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Speaker 2: voter fatigue. Now, not to derail this whole conversation, but

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Speaker 2: Barkley earned that MVP like a mug. Barkley averaged twenty

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Speaker 2: five and twelve, and most importantly, the Suns finished with

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Speaker 2: the best regular season record. The MVP isn't about who

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Speaker 2: you want taking the last shot, who you build a

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Speaker 2: fairy with. It is simply about who had the best

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Speaker 2: regular season and how that impacted their team's success. Now,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to Carl Malone back in nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: that's a different story. Well, first of all, y'all know

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Speaker 2: I don't fuck with Carl Malone as a staff record

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Speaker 2: label or a crew for reasons you can google. But

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Speaker 2: second of all, when Malone won the MVP in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety seven, although he finished second to Jordan in the

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Speaker 2: league in scoring, Utah did not have the best.

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Speaker 1: Record in the league that year. But I digress.

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Speaker 2: This Lamar Jackson Josh Allen MVP debate is kind of

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Speaker 2: giving that Michael Jordan Field he wins it every year.

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Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson's own excellence is basically being held against him.

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Speaker 2: So much of any MVP race is about narrative, and

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Speaker 2: the narrative surrounding Lamar Jackson is still baked and how

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Speaker 2: people perceived him before he was even drafted.

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Speaker 3: This quarterback out in Louisville.

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Speaker 4: Lamar Jackson is here in Indianapolis, and he will throw

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Speaker 4: tomorrow when the quarterbacks work out. But we now know

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Speaker 4: a number of teams have also requested that Jackson workout

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Speaker 4: with the wide receivers as well.

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Speaker 3: They want to see both workouts.

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Speaker 4: Jackson is yet to say, at least publicly, whether he's

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Speaker 4: admenable to that.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm going to go ahead here and say the

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Speaker 2: quiet part out loud. The reason Lamar Jackson, despite his

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Speaker 2: success is still polarizing to some people. Is because Lamar

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Speaker 2: Jackson refuses to code switch. He refuses to co switch

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Speaker 2: and how he presents himself. He refuses to co switch

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Speaker 2: in how he plays, he refuses to co switch in

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Speaker 2: terms of how he conducts his business because his mother

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Speaker 2: is his agent. Lamar Jackson don't bother nobody, but you

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Speaker 2: would be surprised by how many people are bothered by that.

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Speaker 3: I want my quarterbacks to be quarterback.

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Speaker 2: Ye now, people have been using racially coded language to

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Speaker 2: describe Jackson his entire NFL career.

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Speaker 5: The San Francisco forty nine Ers have suspended a radio

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Speaker 5: analyst because of something he said about Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson.

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Speaker 5: Here's what that analyst, Tim Ryan said on a radio

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Speaker 5: show Monday morning after the Ravens beat the forty nine

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Speaker 5: ers on Sunday.

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Speaker 3: When he his dark skinn color with a dark football,

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Speaker 3: with a dark uniform, you could not see that thing.

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Speaker 3: I mean you literally could not see when he was

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Speaker 3: in and out of the matchpoint.

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Speaker 2: So, if race has been a factor in how people

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Speaker 2: have frankly always discussed Lamar Jackson, why would race suddenly

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Speaker 2: be eliminated entirely from the equation when it comes to

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Speaker 2: this MVP race. Now, let me be clear, I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying if Josh Allen wins the award is because he's

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Speaker 2: white and people are racist. I would have zero problem

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Speaker 2: if he wanted. But there is a theme here of

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Speaker 2: black excellence being taken for granted, and it's not just

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Speaker 2: limited to sports, and sometimes that excellence is used to

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Speaker 2: deny black folks their due.

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Speaker 1: A couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: Variety polled five Grammy voters about who they voted for

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Speaker 2: and who they didn't vote for. The voters were allowed

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Speaker 2: to share their true feelings anonymously. One voter admitted that

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Speaker 2: she didn't vote for Beyonce in any of the top

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Speaker 2: categories because she has quote already won a lot of Grammys.

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Speaker 2: Along those same lines, Simone Biles used to be penalized

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Speaker 2: for her ability to x acute difficult, unprecedented maneuvers because

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Speaker 2: the International Gymnastics Federation was concerned that other gymnasts would

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Speaker 2: hurt themselves trying to mimic files, so if they gave

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Speaker 2: her lower scores, the other gymnasts would have less incentive

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Speaker 2: to try. When you're black, sometimes there is such thing

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Speaker 2: as being too good or your own good. I'm Jamel

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Speaker 2: Hill and I approved this message. Coming up next on spolitics,

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Speaker 2: we live in a very tricky, polarizing political time, but

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Speaker 2: not so tricky and not so polarizing that one of

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Speaker 2: the most trusted news anchors in mainstream media can't.

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Speaker 1: Find time to be a Rabbit fan.

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Speaker 2: CNN anchor Jake Tapper is in the political trensist, but

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Speaker 2: that does not distract him from being an intense Philadelphia

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Speaker 2: sports fan.

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Speaker 1: Jake and I will discuss what's more difficult.

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Speaker 2: Covering President elect Donald Trump or interviewing Patrick Mahomes right

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Speaker 2: after he beat his beloved Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: That's up next on s politics. Jake, thank you so

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Speaker 2: much for joining me. And I'm going to start this

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Speaker 2: podcast the way I start every episode as politics, and

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Speaker 2: that is by asking you name a moment or an

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Speaker 2: athlete that made you love sports.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Mike Schmidt made me love sports in seventy

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Speaker 3: nine and eighty as a little boy watching the Philadelphia Phillies.

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Speaker 3: I confess also when Rose came to the Phillies, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know all the stuff about him, but just as

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Speaker 3: I remember when he was with the Reds and searching

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Speaker 3: around and reading my dad's Sports Illustrated and there was

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Speaker 3: an issue that had him like wearing the hats of

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Speaker 3: like a bunch of teams that might take them, and

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Speaker 3: I was really hoping. And he became the Phillies first

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Speaker 3: baseman and I think that was seventy nine, and then

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Speaker 3: they won the World Series in eighties. So that whole

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty season for a little boy was just was

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Speaker 3: just really a matchic time in Philly sports. The Eagles

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Speaker 3: were in the Super Bowl and I think in like

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Speaker 3: January eighty one or something like that, and then of

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Speaker 3: course under Doctor Ju the Sixers won the championship in

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Speaker 3: eighty three. So that whole period spoiled me. And then

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Speaker 3: there was a long long period of nothing. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: so that was it was a great time to be

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Speaker 3: a little boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a pretty good run.

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Speaker 2: You had seventy nine, eighty, as you said, eighty one

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Speaker 2: and then eighty three. I was like, that's that's a

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Speaker 2: dream period as a Philly sports fan. But as you said,

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Speaker 2: you've also gone through some miser a misery.

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Speaker 1: As a as a Philodelphia sports fan.

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Speaker 2: So how did you how do you cope through those

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Speaker 2: times when Philly sports isn't quite doing as well is

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Speaker 2: it as it should be.

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Speaker 3: So I have a there's a bunch of Philadelphia diasporans

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Speaker 3: that that we all text and email and have certain

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Speaker 3: rules about unbridled optimism, which is not permitted. It's jinxing,

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Speaker 3: and it's also just part of it. You know. It's

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Speaker 3: funny because I have successfully raised my kids, even though

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Speaker 3: we live in DC, to be Eagles fans. They're not

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Speaker 3: really into baseball or basketball per se, but they're they're

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Speaker 3: into football, both my daughter and my son. And it

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Speaker 3: occurred to me last year when the Eagles completely fell apart,

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Speaker 3: and I think they were I think they had the

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Speaker 3: same well, they were ten and ten and one, and

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Speaker 3: then they just like lost five or six games in

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Speaker 3: a row. It's just absolutely abysmal. And it occurred to

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Speaker 3: me that my son had only really known the Eagles

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Speaker 3: as a team that brings pleasure generally speaking, because because

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Speaker 3: of the twenty seventeen and then twenty eighteen Super Bowl,

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Speaker 3: and then they were in a different super Bowl, which

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Speaker 3: was painful, but at least they were in the super Bowl.

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Speaker 3: And it, I mean, like he really doesn't know what

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Speaker 3: it's like to be a Philly sports fan, because he

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Speaker 3: is really just seeing the Eagles as a dominant team.

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Speaker 3: But it's just part of life, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: just I mean, it's one of the reasons we all

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Speaker 3: love sports so much is because it is such a

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Speaker 3: metaphor for life and the fact that most of us,

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Speaker 3: even if we're really good at what we do, don't

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Speaker 3: win the Super Bowl, don't win the Sidewant Young Award,

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Speaker 3: don't win the NBA Championship. But you know, for the

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Speaker 3: best laid plans, like Joel Embiid is still struggling with whatever.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it is the life of it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's the life of a Philly fan. It's

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Speaker 3: really the life of a fan. I mean, because it's

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Speaker 3: not as though Mets fans and Yankee fans and Dodger

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Speaker 3: fans and everybody doesn't go through the same thing. But

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Speaker 3: there is something gritty about the Philadelphia kind of like downtrodden,

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Speaker 3: chip on our shoulder, wait till next year attitude that

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Speaker 3: is as part of it. I mean, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a reason why they may they play clips from Rocky

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Speaker 3: and music from Rocky at every Philadelphia sports game, and

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Speaker 3: it's just that underdog feeling is part of the ethos.

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Speaker 3: And also Rocky lost. I mean, as people people forget

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Speaker 3: that he didn't win till Rocky too.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I would say Philly and the Detroit Lions

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Speaker 2: have kind of separated themselves from other NFC teams. So

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Speaker 2: how are you processing this season for the Eagles.

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Speaker 3: I'm expecting that disappointment.

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Speaker 1: So you're you're not looking at this same as saying, wow,

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Speaker 1: they're great.

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Speaker 6: We may another my god, No, no, no, And I

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Speaker 6: have to say, and I don't know if you as

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Speaker 6: an African American or you as a woman feel this,

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Speaker 6: but I as a Jew feel this, which is there

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Speaker 6: is something in being Jewish that's just like expecting the worst.

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Speaker 3: It's just drilled into your head expecting the point.

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Speaker 1: And I definitely learned this. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if as a woman or as an

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Speaker 3: African American you feel the same way, but there's just

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Speaker 3: like we're like, Okay, what's coming around the corner. And

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Speaker 3: there's something about being from Philly that's like that too.

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Speaker 3: It's different, obviously, but there is just something of skeptical

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Speaker 3: or anxiety inducing about you. No, I'm not and by

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Speaker 3: the way, we won the game, but the but the

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Speaker 3: takeaway was what's wrong with our panising game? What is

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Speaker 3: Jalen going to do to improve his We all love him,

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Speaker 3: we all want him to succeed, you know all that,

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Speaker 3: but that that didn't look like a team that was

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Speaker 3: going to win the Super Bowl. So yeah, no, it's

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Speaker 3: you know, nerve.

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Speaker 1: Rank because I've heard this.

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of the Philly sports friends who

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Speaker 2: are friends of mine.

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Speaker 1: But are you a little bit angry?

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Speaker 2: Maybe angry isn't the word, Maybe that's too strong, but

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Speaker 2: a little bit disappointed in Joe LMB because you know,

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Speaker 2: at this point in his career, certainly entering this season,

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Speaker 2: he wasn't in the best shape. You know, it has

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Speaker 2: He's taken a lot of criticism in Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: He has been.

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Speaker 2: Suspended for trying to fight a reporter in the locker

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Speaker 2: room who called out some of the issues that people

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Speaker 2: have had.

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Speaker 1: So how do you feel about JOELMB?

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Speaker 3: So I'll just say that I want him to rise

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Speaker 3: to the occasion. I want him to rise to the moment.

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Speaker 3: And there is an entire city that wants to love

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Speaker 3: him so much and he kind of doesn't want it.

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Speaker 3: And there's just Look, I mean we went through this

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Speaker 3: with Harden too, Like some people act like champions and

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Speaker 3: some people don't, and Jalen Hurts acts like a champion.

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Speaker 3: Is you know Saquon Barkley is a god. I mean

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Speaker 3: that sideline clip of him telling Nick Sirianni that he no, no,

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Speaker 3: I don't need to break my record for the game.

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Speaker 3: Let the young guys eat so moving. He wasn't performing,

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Speaker 3: He didn't know that the cameras are on him, like

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Speaker 3: unless he's the best actor in the world, and like

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Speaker 3: that selflessness and appreciation. Look, I feel this way about

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Speaker 3: my job too. I am and I'm not comparing myself

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Speaker 3: to Jalen Hurts for say Von Barkley, but like, I'm

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Speaker 3: incredibly fortunate I have. I'm really lucky. I get to

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Speaker 3: do something I love. I am compensated for it in

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Speaker 3: a very nice way. And uh, the best thing I

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Speaker 3: can do and I don't always succeed and I don't

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Speaker 3: always achieve it, but the best thing I can do

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Speaker 3: is try to express appreciation for it and be nice

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Speaker 3: to other people and this and that. And I'm looking

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Speaker 3: over at my staff to see if they're if they're

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Speaker 3: giving me a side eye on it. So but to

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Speaker 3: set an example and to and and to appreciate it

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Speaker 3: and and and be kind my, you know, to the

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Speaker 3: other anchors and the other correspondents of this and that,

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Speaker 3: and to try to be a leader. And again, I'm

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Speaker 3: not comparing what I'm doing to any of these incredibly

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Speaker 3: talented people, but there is something about appreciating a rarefying existence.

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Speaker 3: And I look at Jalen Hurts, and I look at

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Speaker 3: Saquon Barkley, and I look at Bryce Harper, and I've

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Speaker 3: been lucky enough to like meet and like be text

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Speaker 3: buddies and go to a like a game or two

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Speaker 3: a year with Mike Schmidt, like one of my childhood heroes,

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Speaker 3: and like these are just they have great perspective and

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Speaker 3: they really understand how lucky they are. And I don't

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Speaker 3: get that vibe from Joel. And if I'm wrong, I'm

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Speaker 3: happy to apologize and be proven wrong. But I just

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Speaker 3: don't see that it doesn't seem like he's being that leader,

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Speaker 3: and I want him to be. One of the most

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Speaker 3: remarkable things in Philly sports that ever happened was when

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Speaker 3: Trey Turner was having a horrible slump, and I think

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Speaker 3: somebody did a documentary movie about this, and I have

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Speaker 3: to see it. I'm not sure if it's come out yet.

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Speaker 3: But and for some reason, somebody decided to lead Philadelphia

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Speaker 3: Phillies fans in cheering him instead of booing him, which

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Speaker 3: is more our vibe were booers and it worked. And

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Speaker 3: it's and Trey Turner like had a great season, didn't

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Speaker 3: make the World Series, but had a great season. I

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Speaker 3: think this is last season. I don't think it was

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Speaker 3: this season, And like, I don't know, I would just

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Speaker 3: like to see a little bit more like there is

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Speaker 3: that willingness to cheer for Joel and b there is

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Speaker 3: and and not winning a championship is doctor j only

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Speaker 3: won one? I mean, like you know, Barkley won none.

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Speaker 3: Barkley won no championships for US, but he's beloved because

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Speaker 3: he worked so hard for the Sixer. So that's a

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Speaker 3: long answer for your question.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, I get what you're saying is that

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Speaker 2: it does feel that Joel Embiid is sort of it's

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Speaker 2: him versus everybody, Like he's kind.

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Speaker 1: Of fighting the world a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think a lot of it has

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Speaker 2: to do with the fact that he's add a number

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Speaker 2: of injuries in his career. I think some of it

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Speaker 2: is just internally battling his own level of disappointment in

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Speaker 2: how things have turned out.

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Speaker 1: And that's not to erase.

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Speaker 2: Him being an MVP and all these other things, but

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Speaker 2: it is just say that there is an expectation. But

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Speaker 2: I think his behavior is the part that Philly fans

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Speaker 2: are most upset about.

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Speaker 1: Not necessarily, I mean the championships. Of course, you guys

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Speaker 1: want to win, but right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, Alan Iverson, another guy couldn't be more loved

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Speaker 2: than Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: Never won a champion, never won a championship, but tried

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Speaker 3: so hard and never at least maybe this is revisionist history,

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Speaker 3: you know, but I don't remember him acting. I don't

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Speaker 3: remember him blaming anyone other than himself for any of

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Speaker 3: his shortcomings. And it's just like, that's why he's still beloved,

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Speaker 3: And it's just it's about appreciating the opportunity has been

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Speaker 3: given and rising to it. And look, he's young. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm fifty five, so perspective comes a little easier at

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Speaker 3: fifty five than it does at thirty. At thirty, you think,

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Speaker 3: why doesn't everybody appreciate how great I am? And how

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Speaker 3: hard I work, and then you realize, like just because

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Speaker 3: that's just not how the world works, Like that's the

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Speaker 3: world is about what you can provide for them, not

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Speaker 3: what it can provide for you. And so there's just

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Speaker 3: a maturing that needs to happen. And sometimes great players

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Speaker 3: like I mean, I think Jalen Hurts gets it and

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Speaker 3: he's like twenty three, So I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's not just stage.

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Speaker 2: Sports loving sports, loving a team, a city in your

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Speaker 2: case as well, it comes with its all level of

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Speaker 2: emotional upheaval because of the ups and the downs. But

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Speaker 2: as somebody who is you know, a news anchor who

357
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Speaker 2: is mired in world chaos and country chaos all the time,

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Speaker 2: are sports all the sports therapy for you?

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Speaker 3: They are? I do catch myself sometimes I was because

360
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Speaker 3: you know, the apps have made it so much easier

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Speaker 3: to be a sports fan. And I went through like

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Speaker 3: a period where I just when I was when I

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Speaker 3: started in journalism, where I just couldn't keep up with sports.

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Speaker 3: It just wasn't as easy too, Like I to be honest,

365
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Speaker 3: I was covering Obama in two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 3: I completely missed the Philadelphia World Series run I just

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Speaker 3: missed it. I just didn't. I was covering the election

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Speaker 3: of Barack Obama. That was my job, and I just

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Speaker 3: missed it. And I'm really bombed. But now because of

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Speaker 3: smartphones and apps, like I wouldn't, that would never happen again.

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Speaker 3: It is a huge amount of therapy for me. I

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Speaker 3: do catch myself thinking, like, you know, I'm caring about

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Speaker 3: this baseball game a lot more than any like adult

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Speaker 3: human should care about any game. But you know that's okay.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm able to walk away for it does

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Speaker 3: affect my mood, though in a way that is not

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Speaker 3: that I have to like say, okay, stop, like I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be upset unless the Eagles win the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 3: and like I know, the odds of the Eagles making

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Speaker 3: it to the super Bowl, much less winning it are

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Speaker 3: not one hundred percent. Let's just put it that way.

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Speaker 3: And that is very, very upsetting. But I try to

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Speaker 3: use the sports for the therapy as much as possible,

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Speaker 3: and God knows in this world we need it. I

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Speaker 3: need it for sure.

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Speaker 2: Now he mentioned how it changes your mood, but yet

387
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Speaker 2: in what was it twenty twenty one when you all

388
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Speaker 2: lost to the Chiefs, you still managed to compose yourself

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Speaker 2: enough to interview Patrick Mahomes on your show after.

390
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Speaker 1: He had just beaten your Eagles.

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Speaker 2: What was that moment like as a as a Philly fan,

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Speaker 2: and then now you have to interview the guy who

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Speaker 2: took a championship of you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so first of all that you did your research.

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Speaker 3: That's good. They beat his fair and square. I mean,

396
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 3: there was one call was iffy, but it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't like honestly, our defense fell apart in the

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Speaker 3: second half and that's just what it is. And that's

399
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Speaker 3: why I was happy to see Gan and leave no offense.

400
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Speaker 3: I hope he has a nice life and everything. But

401
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 3: our defensive coordinator was not rising to the to the game.

402
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Speaker 3: The footnote the caveat on that is my wife is

403
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Speaker 3: from the Kansas City area, so I live with the

404
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 3: Chiefs fan. I'm in love with the Chiefs fan, so

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Speaker 3: I'm not. It's not like I find they are not

406
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Speaker 3: like an irredeemable team. They you know, you can't. I

407
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Speaker 3: can't hate Patrick Mahomes the way that like Saint Brady,

408
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,239
Speaker 3: aroused the wrath of Philadelphians. Like I will still I

409
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 3: will if somebody's saying something nice about Tom Brady on Twitter.

410
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 3: I will still tweet out that gift of him missing

411
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 3: the ball in the in the Super Bowl, except if

412
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Speaker 3: somebody's replaced the ball with the world with the super

413
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Speaker 3: Bowl Trophy with the Vince Lombardi and it's so it's

414
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 3: hip anyway, childish, very childish, but I will do that.

415
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Speaker 3: And then the other thing is I do this charity

416
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Speaker 3: thing every year in Kansas City for Children's Mercy Hospital,

417
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Speaker 3: and so I've actually met Mahomes and Kelsey a few times.

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Speaker 3: You know. I don't like, they're not my friends or anything,

419
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Speaker 3: but I've met them and they're really They're really good guys.

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Speaker 3: So you know, it wasn't as tough as it would

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Speaker 3: have been if it had been Tom Brady. If it

422
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Speaker 3: had been Tom Brady, that would have been a different interview.

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Speaker 3: I think, I think it would have. I don't know

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Speaker 3: that I could have gotten through if Tom Brady. If

425
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Speaker 3: the Patriots had beaten us in twenty eighteen, I don't

426
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Speaker 3: know that I would have been capable of doing an

427
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Speaker 3: interview with Tom Brady the way.

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Speaker 1: I was might have tapped out on that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I don't think that, So don't give

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Speaker 3: me too much credit.

431
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Speaker 1: All right, what about if the Cowboys ever won a

432
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Speaker 1: Super Bowl? Could you do the interview?

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Speaker 3: I just don't. I just don't hate them that much.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like and also they're struggling so much that

435
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Speaker 3: I they honestly like the Cowboys of today are not

436
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: the Cowboys of when I was growing up, and it

437
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 3: was like the Cowboys and Steelers won everything. I mean

438
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: it was just like I didn't even know the last

439
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: time they were in I mean, they don't make postseason

440
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 3: a lot.

441
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean they're in a drug that's for sure.

442
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And also my brother in law lives in Frisco,

443
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 3: which is right outside also, and matt is like that

444
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 3: is where the stadium is. That's the whole championship. I've

445
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: been to games and they're you know, I just I

446
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: don't hate them the way that I did in the

447
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 3: in the seventies when they were so good.

448
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I would think naturally that as you know,

449
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: being that they're in your division, it's like them and

450
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: the Commanders that might you know, hurt.

451
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I love beating a little bit.

452
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: I love you had to do that.

453
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 3: But maybe I love beating them, But I love the

454
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 3: Phillies beating the Braves more, you know, because the Braids

455
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: are more of like a fierce rival kind of thing.

456
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

457
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing with the Cowboys is just that

458
00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 2: they have been sort of frightening mediocre since you obviously

459
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: the mid nineties. I mean, they've they've certainly made the playoffs,

460
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: like they just it's hard to remember, like they were

461
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: just a wild card last year, you know, but they

462
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: they haven't made it past the divisional round and I

463
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: think since the mid nineties that was the last time.

464
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 3: I just like I'm on a text Jane with my

465
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: son and my and my brother in law, and my

466
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: brother in law is the Cowboys fan, and like it's

467
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: just not even that funnymore. You're so bad. It's just

468
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: like I feel bad for them, Like I don't even

469
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 3: do it, you know what I mean. Like it's just

470
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 3: like it's not even a good rivalry. Like they're bad, which,

471
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: by the way, I'm just jinxed it. They're gonna beat

472
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 3: us now, I mean, like here you go, They're gonna

473
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 3: be in the super Bowl or something. I just I

474
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: just I don't don't.

475
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: Have to worry about that with this guy.

476
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: You know, I brought the divisions are wrong. Yes, I

477
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 3: mean they're to.

478
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: Worry about them being in your way. I don't. I

479
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: think this season you're safe.

480
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean said, I'm arousing the

481
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: wrath of the sports gods.

482
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: Now, with all this being said, given your lover sports,

483
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 2: is it a point as you were thinking about becoming

484
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: a journalist that you thought about being a sports journalist.

485
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 3: I don't know enough at all. And in fact, the

486
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: fact that when this post, my friends from college will

487
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 3: make fun of me because I was so not a

488
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: sports fan in college and they were, and like for

489
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: your younger listeners and viewers, like, it was so tough

490
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: to follow sports back then, Like I don't ESPN first.

491
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: Of all came around, was some of us managed, Well.

492
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 3: That's what they would say, That's what they would say.

493
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: But these are the guys who would like go walk

494
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: to the gas station in college to get a copy

495
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: of USA today, to go look at the box scores. Right,

496
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 3: this is pre internet. I'm saying, like, it's much easier now.

497
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 3: So I'm a much bigger sports fan now and like

498
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: so they will make fun of me for you even

499
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: asking that question, because these are guys who could literally

500
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 3: like become sports commentators. I think a couple of them

501
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Darryl and my friend Hillman could probably

502
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: be sports commentators and now, just because they know so much.

503
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: And in fact, when I turned fifty, my wife through

504
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: a party, and Jeff Zucker, who is a sports lunatic,

505
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 3: right he loves sports, and someday if they, you know,

506
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: if all is right in this world, like the Dolphins

507
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: will hire him to be the general manager or something like,

508
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: he'll get a job in sports at some point. But

509
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: in any case, he sat next to Darryl and Hillman

510
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 3: and he's like, who are these guys? Because they just

511
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: they know everything about sports. It it'd be much more

512
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: that question should be asked of them, not of me.

513
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: But no, I don't. I just don't know enough. I mean, like,

514
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: if there were sports teams, if there were sports shows

515
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: about like the nineteen eighty Phillies, I could probably remember

516
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: enough about Bob Boone and Tim McCarver and Shaken Bake

517
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: mcgride to like, you know, rise to the occasion. But

518
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 3: as a general as a general premise, now I just

519
00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: don't know enough.

520
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: How So, what was your path to journalism?

521
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 3: My path to journalism? Was. Really It's funny because I

522
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: started out in when I was a kid, I loved journalism.

523
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 3: I did like a neighbor like a neighborhood newspaper, just

524
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: like a mimiograph newspaper. And then I was editor of

525
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 3: my high school paper. And then I went off to

526
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 3: college and I did a comic strip, but I did

527
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: I wasn't a journalist, and I kind of didn't realize

528
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: how much I missed it or how much I was

529
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: meant to do it until years later, Like I was,

530
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: I tried to do the comic strip, and then I

531
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: went to film school, and I kind of just fumped

532
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: my way around in my twenties until I was like,

533
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: you know what, I started writing freelance stories for city

534
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 3: paper here in Washington and other places, and I kind

535
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 3: of like, oh, this is really fun. And then looking

536
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 3: back on it, I I'm kind of mystified that it

537
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 3: took me so long, given how much I liked it

538
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: when I was in high school. And I'm actually even

539
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: named after a journalist. My great uncle who I never met,

540
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: Jacob Cher, was a Chicago Sun Times managing editor who

541
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 3: taught journalism at Medill. So I mean, like, it's really

542
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: kind of bizarre that I was such an idiot about

543
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: it for so long. But then I started writing for

544
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: City Paper, and then it just took off from there

545
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: city Paper, then Salon and ABC and now seeing it.

546
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: At what point did you realize that you or wanted

547
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: to or should or I don't know, if you just

548
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: kind of organically gravitated to politics. At what point did

549
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: you realize that that was what you wanted to cover?

550
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: Well?

551
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: I just always I was raised in a very political household,

552
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: and we were just always politically aware about what was

553
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 3: going on. I mean, I do have memories of my mom,

554
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: not that I was grasping what was going on, but

555
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: I do remember my mom watching the Watergate hearings on TV.

556
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: I knew there's a my dad has somewhere cartoon I

557
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: did of the mayor, like a political cartoon I did

558
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: of the mayor of Philadelphia, who was time this horrible

559
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: racist democrat named Frank Rizzo, and uh, it's just like

560
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: a little drawing and it's just bad Rizzo, bad Rizzo,

561
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: bad Rizzo, which is you know, incisive commentary for three

562
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: and and so I was just always very aware of politics.

563
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: I just uh, it just took me. It took me

564
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: a while to figure out the political journalism was something

565
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: I really like now.

566
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: As we as we've seen how polarizing, obviously politics has become.

567
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: I'm wondering what it's like for you as an anchor

568
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: when you're not on air, particularly since you know, obviously

569
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: President elect Trump had made CNN, you know, had a

570
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: lot of criticisms. I think I'm not even criticisms if

571
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: it isn't even the word of what he was saying

572
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: about CNN is far more serious than that. I'm wondering

573
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: how that impacted your life and whether or not you

574
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: have any concerns as he takes office again, that's being

575
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: able to again become his punching bag, which leads to

576
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: a level of danger for the anchors who are on air.

577
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: Well, I don't like animosity towards news media at all

578
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: from anyone, and obviously he displayed it quite a bit.

579
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: It started with CNN. Well it's start. It actually started

580
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: with like the des Moines Register. I mean, if you

581
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: go back and trace his anger at the media, it

582
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 3: starts it with like the des Moines Register. It starts

583
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: with individual outlets and reporters, and then it just grew

584
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: and you can even like trace enemy of the people

585
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: from I think it started with CNN and then it

586
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: was like then he just added, so it's really just

587
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: any news media that tries to hold him accountable at all.

588
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: And you know, that's never pleasant to be called the

589
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: enemy of the people, especially in an age where political

590
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: violence is a very real thing that we wasn't fun

591
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: then and it I don't know what to expect in

592
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 3: this new era. He's talked about changing libel laws to

593
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: make it easier to sue journalists. I wish the House

594
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 3: and Senate would pass as a shield law that's being

595
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: proposed that would protect journalists. By the way, that wouldn't

596
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: just protect mainstream journalists, Like somebody who would benefit it

597
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: from right now is Catherine Herrits, who's being sued by

598
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: the Biden administration for not revealing a source for her

599
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: when she was at Fox. So I mean, like this

600
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: is just works for journalists period. I wish the I mean,

601
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: I guess the Republican House wouldn't pass it, but in

602
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: any case, yeah, I mean, of course I'm concerned. And

603
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: I also think that the number of Republicans who are

604
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: willing to speak up against the ex sesses of the

605
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 3: Trump administration seems smaller now than it did during his

606
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: first term. So yeah, I mean, look, we'll see what happens.

607
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: I'm just going to cover him and let the chips

608
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: fall where they may. But separately, that other stuff that

609
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: he does, whether it's you know, the libel laws or

610
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: leak investigations or attacking us, yeah, it's not pleasant, but

611
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: it doesn't affect the job.

612
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

613
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 2: You said it before a few times in interviews that

614
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: the job of a journalist is not to be liked.

615
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: I agree with this wholeheartedly because that's yes.

616
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: And I succeed very much at that part of it.

617
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: That is not That is definitely the job.

618
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: But that being said, it seems like in today's media environment,

619
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: the level of distrust and dissatisfaction that people have with

620
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: journalists is probably the highest I've certainly ever experienced.

621
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: In my career.

622
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, is this something that you feel like journalists earned

623
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: or is this part of a larger sort of cultural

624
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: issue that has to deal with misinformation and disinformation in

625
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: those kinds of things.

626
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: The answer is yes. I mean, you know, we have

627
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 3: we have earned some of it, and any journalist who

628
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: doesn't think that we could have done things better in

629
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: the last twenty years, let's say, because I think it

630
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: precedes Trump. I think you've got to go back to

631
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: the Iraq War and failures there. But yeah, we've earned

632
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: We've earned a lot of it. I think there's also

633
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: a great degree of other parts of this animosity towards

634
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: journalism that are not of our doing. I think, first

635
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 3: of all, it's in the It is now perfectly acceptable,

636
00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: or considered perfectly acceptable for politicians to attack journalists for

637
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: asking questions and to demonize us as left wing hacks

638
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 3: or right wing hacks or whatever. And that is I mean,

639
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 3: it's not a new thing, but it is. It seems

640
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: more widespread. And it seems like in the age of

641
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: the Internet and social media and clicks and likes and

642
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 3: all that there is an incentive structure built in for

643
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 3: bad faith actors who literally make money attacking let's say,

644
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 3: Maggie Haberman, who are not really operating in good faith

645
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 3: in terms of their criticism. They just know there is

646
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: a is a choir to be preached to that none

647
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 3: of this is this group's fault. Whether it's Democrats or Republicans,

648
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: it's all the New York Times, or it's all you know,

649
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: Jake Tapper or whatever. And I think that's part of

650
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: it too, And I'm not I'm not complaining about it.

651
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: It is what it is, and that's just what we

652
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: have to deal with it. But that's part of it too.

653
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: And you know, you just look at the way that

654
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: the Biden White House and I'm going to give a

655
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: Biden example here because God knows there's going to be

656
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 3: plenty of Trump examples in my future. But you look

657
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: at the way that the Biden White House reacted to

658
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: any questions about his age, his frailty, his acuity, his

659
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: ability to communicate, and it was a very aggressive response,

660
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 3: most of it behind the scenes, most of it the

661
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 3: Biden campaign, the Biden White House ginning up outrage from

662
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: progressive influencers and Democratic lawmakers to personally attack reporters. And

663
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 3: so that's part of it too. Again. And yes, Donald

664
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: Trump is a may You're part of it. And please,

665
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 3: nobody listening should think that I am downplaying that just

666
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 3: because I haven't talked as much about it. But like,

667
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 3: there's a lot of stuff, and you know, faith in

668
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: institutions is down in general, and you know, I just

669
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 3: think we have a lot of work to do in

670
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 3: the media to earn that trust back. Part of it is,

671
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 3: you know, people like you who you're able to show

672
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 3: yourself and reveal more of who you are and explain

673
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: your thought process and your positions in a longer format.

674
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: That makes your viewers and listeners have more faith in

675
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 3: you because they feel like they know you better. And

676
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: I don't. And again I'm not complaining about this, but

677
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: I don't really get that opportunity. So that's one of

678
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: the reasons why I think the Gmails of the world,

679
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: and the and the Rogans of the world and like

680
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 3: people who have longer format are able to achieve more

681
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 3: trust because people feel like they know you better. And

682
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: that's something that's people in legacy media like me have

683
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 3: to figure out how to negotiate that.

684
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you said that because that was where

685
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: my next question was going. I know, a little short

686
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: on time, but I would like you as you know,

687
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: as part of this election out autopsy, people have looked

688
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: at the influence of podcasters. You know, you have a

689
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: huge percentage of Americans who get their news through podcasts.

690
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan has the largest podcast audience I believe now

691
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: and has had it.

692
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: I know on.

693
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: Spotify specifically for the last four years. We know that

694
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 2: it is a huge audience and how they're shaping news

695
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: and they're more influential than say, your news programs or

696
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: how sixty minutes used to be as a career journalist.

697
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: What do you think this has done to the industry,

698
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 1: whether good or bad?

699
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: Like, how has the rise of influencers and podcasters having

700
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: more impact in cutting through with things than traditional news media.

701
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: How do you feel like that's reshaped our industry.

702
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, it's like complaining about the weather.

703
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 3: It just is like, you know whether or not I'd

704
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: like it, and I happen to, But but whether or

705
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 3: not I do is irrelevant. Look, your success brogan success.

706
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: These are things that happened organically because people liked it.

707
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: It wasn't like the Koch Brothers came in and said

708
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: we're going to we're gonna take this stand up comedian

709
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: who likes mixed martial arts and was a big player

710
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: on news radio and turn him into a conservative force. Like,

711
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 3: first of all, he's not even a conservative force, Like

712
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 3: he's kind of got a way of looking at the world.

713
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's conservadi. Yes, he endorsed trump, et cetera, et cetera.

714
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: But he was like a Bernie guy a few years ago.

715
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 3: I mean, like he's not. I don't know. It's more

716
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 3: complicated than I think when Democrats say we need to

717
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: find our own Rogan, it's it's much more complicated than that.

718
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: It has more to do with First of all, you

719
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: got to meet people where they are, if you're a

720
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 3: politician or if your legacy media and like so there

721
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 3: needs to be more of us going on podcasts and

722
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: politicians too going on that's where people are. That doesn't

723
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: mean there isn't a place for I mean, Joe Rogan

724
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 3: is not going to bring you news from downtown Alepo,

725
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: uh you know uh, or like an analysis of it

726
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 3: or by the way, like he's not going to moderate

727
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: a debate. And I'm not saying he shouldn't, but I'm

728
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: just saying, like this is not going to happen. There's

729
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: still is a role for traditional media. So how do

730
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: we figure out how to how to live in this world?

731
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 3: What do we do and how to Like people are

732
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 3: going to podcasts to either for entertainment or for comfort

733
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 3: or for information or whatever it is, how do we

734
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: take advantage of that for our product, which is different

735
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 3: to bring people to our product or to maybe do

736
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 3: we need to do I mean, Audi Cornish does a

737
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: great podcast is but maybe does she need to do

738
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: more of a Joe Rogan? Not her, but like I

739
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: don't want to pick on audio. She's amazing, Like maybe

740
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 3: we need do we need to have like a newsperson

741
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: doing something more like that? I don't know, but like, look,

742
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: this is what people like personally. I listen to podcasts

743
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 3: all the time. I listen to you, I listened to Rogan,

744
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: I listened to the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, which

745
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: is just every week they look at one of the

746
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 3: digital shorts that they did on SNL ten years ago

747
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 3: and talked about it like that's what I do you know?

748
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 3: So how do we figure that out?

749
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: And finally, because not only do I ask people who

750
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: have graciously agreed to be guests on politics about their

751
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: favorite athletes and sports memories that made them love sports

752
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: always in the podcast with a messy question, now you wrote, okay, yes,

753
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: sarcial controversy Jake right here, all right now. You wrote

754
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: in a CNA piece about your fandom, and this was

755
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: following the Eagles twenty eighteen Super Bowl victory over those

756
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: Patriots that you love so much. You wrote that when

757
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 2: that ball bounced slipped me into the zone. I can

758
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: honestly say that only the joy I experienced at my

759
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: wedding and the birth of my two children came close.

760
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: Be honest, Jake, would you rate truly winning a Super

761
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: Bowl over your marriage and your children and the birth

762
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: and your children?

763
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: Definitely not over the birth of my children. Definitely not.

764
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: Definitely not over the marriage. I will, I will. I

765
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 3: will confess that I find weddings a little I mean,

766
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: it's a lot of people, it's a lot of family,

767
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: it's a lot of people you don't know. I mean,

768
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: I love my wife dearly. I'm so happy that we're married.

769
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 3: But was I smiling more at the twenty eighteen Super

770
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: Bowl than.

771
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: You did on your weddingday?

772
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: I'm getting.

773
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: It was.

774
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: It was where it was. It's close. It's a close call.

775
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 3: It's a close call. Let me just put it that way.

776
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: It's a close you decide, Jake Tappart telling the truth

777
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: right now? Do you think do you think Jake smile

778
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 2: smiling or Philly super Bowl?

779
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I say the amount. The amount I was

780
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 3: smiling ear to ear for the twenty four hours after

781
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 3: that Super Bowl victory, which I had never experienced in

782
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 3: my life, was amazing and it is surpassed by the

783
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: mount I have smiled in my eighteen years of marriage

784
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: to my wife. So the marriage itself more joyous than

785
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl. And that's where I'm going to end

786
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: that answer.

787
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: This is a seasoned married man, Ladies and gentlemen, he

788
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: knew how to effectively beg THETTL out of that question. Well, Jake,

789
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining me here on politics,

790
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: and more importantly, thank you for your daily contributions, you know,

791
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: to journalism, one of our last lives of defense out there.

792
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: Bro Well, we love having you on the show, Jamal

793
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 3: so so thank you so much for honoring me. But

794
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 3: but please come back and visit us soon on air

795
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 3: because we love having you.

796
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: You know what, when Philly wins that Super Bowl, I'll

797
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: be back.

798
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: Before that.

799
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: Come on, Take care, Jake.

800
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: That wasn't That was a messy question.

801
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: One more segment to go, and you guys know what

802
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: that means. I got questions to answer up next, your

803
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: viewer slash listener questions, and I have plenty of answers

804
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: coming up next on the final segment of Politics. As always,

805
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: before I close out this episode of Politics, time for

806
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: an audience question. Today's question comes from ex McKinney, who

807
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: asked me this on threads. What do you think about

808
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: the visceral reaction that black men have had on Travis

809
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: Hunter's relationship with his girlfriend? Is that an indicator to

810
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: a bigger problem than black men have when it comes

811
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: to relationships?

812
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: How much of this is quote red pill influence?

813
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: Before answering X McKinney's question, let me give you all

814
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: a little backstory. Travis and his fiance Leanna Linney have

815
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 2: been together since high school, but their relationship really emerged

816
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: in the public eye when Travis post to Leanna last February.

817
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: And ever since that blissful day, social media has treated

818
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: this relationship like it's an episode of Forensic Files. Now

819
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: they have been extremely critical of Leanna. She got drug

820
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: when she shrugged.

821
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: Off his affection after a game this season.

822
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: She then got drug again because at the Heisman Trophy ceremony,

823
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: coach Deon Sanders had to tell her to stand up

824
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: for him as he received his reward. Then an old

825
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 2: clip of Leanna torquing on some musical artists went viral.

826
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: Now as a result, Hunter has deleted his social media

827
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 2: accounts because it has gotten that bad. Now, throughout all

828
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: this drama, there has been a very loud contingent of

829
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: black folks who have been telling Travis he needs to

830
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: dump his fiance. They've been sending up all of emergency flayers.

831
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 2: Former Dallas Wide receiver Deaz Bryant and even little By

832
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: while both publicly told Travis he needs to bounce and

833
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: get away from this woman. It's the same vibe in

834
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: the commons section of any post about Travis and this relationship. Now,

835
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: black men definitely aren't the only ones who disapprove of

836
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: this relationship, so it seems a little unfair to characterize

837
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 2: them as Travis's primary haters. That said, a lot of

838
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: men are especially triggered, especially famous men who have been

839
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: in Travis's perceived situation. A lot of them have been

840
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: with women who don't love them but love what they

841
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 2: can do for them. They look at Travis and feel

842
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 2: like he's being taken advantage of them. But there's a

843
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 2: reason I described their situation as perceived. We don't know Travis.

844
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: We don't know his fiance. We don't know what's happening

845
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: inside of their relationship. We do not know these people.

846
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: My good friend Michael Eric Dyson said something to me

847
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 2: a few years ago that I have never forgotten. He said,

848
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: the older I get, the more grace I have. I

849
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: feel a lot of empathy for Hunter. He's an exceptional

850
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: player who just won a Heismid Trophy, and he is

851
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: dynamic as a two way player. Now, how he's preparing

852
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 2: to be a top five pick in the NFL.

853
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: Draft should be the focus of.

854
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: Our conversations, not all this speculative drama. Besides, let's say

855
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: that everyone's instincts about this relationship.

856
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: It's true.

857
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: Do you remember what it's like being in your twenties

858
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: and being in a relationship that people don't approve of?

859
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: You have the hardest head imaginable. Okay, And as someone

860
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: who is young and in a relationship that people didn't

861
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: approve of, I know firsthand all that disapproval does is

862
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: just make you want to be with that person even

863
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: more because you want to prove people wrong. So, while

864
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: we would all love to live in a world where

865
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: people didn't have to learn the hard way, that's not reality.

866
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 2: You have to trust that if there is a lesson

867
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: for Travis Hunter to learn, he will learn it. But

868
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: until then I want us to ease up on him

869
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: because I'm also older to remember what some of my

870
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Speaker 2: relationships look like when I was in my twenties, and

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Speaker 2: had there been a camera on me as much as

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Speaker 2: it is on Travis and Leanna, let's just say there

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Speaker 2: would be a lot of allegations.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't be.

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00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 2: In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say

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00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: that would be the case for most of us. So

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Speaker 2: thank you X McKinny for your question. Now, if any

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00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: of you listening would like to ask me a question,

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00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: I'm at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter,

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00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 2: Blue Sky, Instagram, and threads.

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00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: Please use the hashtags politics.

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00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: You also have the option of emailing me at spolitics

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00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. You can also

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00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: send me a video of your question, but please make

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00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: sure it's thirty seconds or less. Also, don't forget to

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Speaker 2: follow and subscribe to spolitics on iHeart and follow spolitics

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00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: pod on Instagram and TikTok. Politics is spelled spo l

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00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 2: t c S s p O L I t i

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00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 2: c s. A new episode of Politics drops every Thursday

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00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: on iHeart podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This

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00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: is politics where sports and politics don't just mix, They matter.

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00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 2: Politics is the production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.

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00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoigne.

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00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 2: Lucas Hymen is Head of Audio and executive producer. Megan

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Speaker 2: Armstrong is associate producer. Original music for Spolitics provided by

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Speaker 2: Kyle VISs from wiz FX.