Speaker 1: He's the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war
Speaker 1: room for in center news and draft analysis from deep
Speaker 1: within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Fresco,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like DDE Lambs again now your host, Kyle Yeomans.
Speaker 1: We are just sixteen days away, sixteen short days away.
Speaker 1: We've got about four or five more episodes of the
Speaker 1: Draft Show prior to the twenty twenty one NFL Draft
Speaker 1: once again April twenty nine in Cleveland, Ohio. So glad
Speaker 1: you're with us here over the next hour as we
Speaker 1: break down some more draft talk, and we've continued this
Speaker 1: for what is now thirty five episodes of the Draft
Speaker 1: Show this year. So glad you've been along on this
Speaker 1: journey with us. Kyle Yeoman's alongside Kevin, Katie Turner, We've
Speaker 1: got Jeff Cavn, and then Bucky Brooks is on the way.
Speaker 1: Of course, Bucky Brooks big time with the NFL network,
Speaker 1: so we're on his schedule whenever it comes to him
Speaker 1: joining our show. We love Bucky and we will see
Speaker 1: him coming up here. Just a couple of moments, but
Speaker 1: a lot of exciting at least for Draft nerds talk.
Speaker 1: Today because we're gonna get into the nitty gritty. We're
Speaker 1: gonna get into some day three guys to talk about,
Speaker 1: and we're also going to talk about maybe even the
Speaker 1: new age of scouting. But overall, Jeff, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: getting into the final couple weeks here. If you had
Speaker 1: to peg, what would be the most stressful thing on
Speaker 1: NFL front offices right now? Because I mean there's stress
Speaker 1: all year round, but right now, whenever you're done with
Speaker 1: pro days, those are in the rearview mirror. You've pretty
Speaker 1: much done all of these interviews. What's the most stressful
Speaker 1: part about the draft process leading into these final two weeks?
Speaker 1: I think for me it would probably be just when
Speaker 1: you get them all kind of an and then you
Speaker 1: start really drilling down. Like for me, when I watch tape,
Speaker 1: I just kind of haphazardly put guys in the rounds
Speaker 1: that I think they go, and the order is not
Speaker 1: all that important, but I think I have him in
Speaker 1: the right order. Then I go back over all my
Speaker 1: notes and I kind of reorder the rounds, and then
Speaker 1: you get to the end and you go, Okay, Caleb Farley,
Speaker 1: how far where do I put you? With your back vasectomies.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to say the actual words. That's
Speaker 1: what I go with his back vasectomies, Like where do
Speaker 1: I put you now? Because I'm gonna tell you right now,
Speaker 1: I have Caleb Farley as cornerback eight wow, because I
Speaker 1: just you know that, to me, that is the challenge.
Speaker 1: The medical part is the challenge. Like when somebody gives
Speaker 1: you a thumbs up and they say, hey, Caleb Farley
Speaker 1: is going to be he's gonna be okay. In my mind,
Speaker 1: I just go, man, backs don't get better, and so
Speaker 1: where are you actually going to end up? And for me,
Speaker 1: it's all right, I'm gonna put you right behind all
Speaker 1: the corners that I really like. And then, because it's
Speaker 1: weird that I've talked to Will McClay, we talked to
Speaker 1: Will McLay about this on the fan at one point
Speaker 1: and what do they do with injured guys with red
Speaker 1: medical red flag guys? And he said that they leave
Speaker 1: them where their talent dictates. So like when Jalen Smith
Speaker 1: was picked by the Cowboys, Jalen Smith was sitting on
Speaker 1: their board in the first round way up there at
Speaker 1: the very very top, and I was like, man, that
Speaker 1: seems insane to me, and so I'd do it a
Speaker 1: different way. I put them where I would actually pick them.
Speaker 1: And so that's that's that's the thing right now for
Speaker 1: me is killed Farley. Where in the world do I
Speaker 1: put you? And so for me, the answer is cornerback eight.
Speaker 1: I think Jeff hit on it pretty good like the medicals.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you're like me, they ain't no
Speaker 1: stressing out. Baby. We did the work, we got him
Speaker 1: in order, weren't good to go. I don't know. And
Speaker 1: this is where I think I want to ask Bucky,
Speaker 1: because he's lived this life before, maybe the last minute
Speaker 1: in house fighting of an organization, maybe you know, you
Speaker 1: get the scouts and maybe a coach comes in, he's
Speaker 1: got a passionate plea on a PowerPoint presentation. But why
Speaker 1: you should take this guy over the guy you like better?
Speaker 1: Like maybe that's the type of thing that can cost
Speaker 1: him stress. But I mean, come on, man, we're middle
Speaker 1: of April. Now, we're two weeks away. You're either way
Speaker 1: to rock or you are. Bucky. Yeah, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: when you get down to this process that a lot
Speaker 1: of it depends on who controls the draft, meaning is
Speaker 1: it a coach driven team or is it a front
Speaker 1: office general manager driven team, Because if it's a coach
Speaker 1: driven team, the coach's voice has more sway and more power,
Speaker 1: meaning that when they come in and the coaches who
Speaker 1: may be late in the process come in and kind
Speaker 1: of way in with their opinions, their opinions may cause
Speaker 1: more movement on the board than in an other situation
Speaker 1: where the general manager and the scouts to kind of
Speaker 1: run in the process. So a lot of it depends
Speaker 1: on that, but really there shouldn't be a lot of
Speaker 1: movement now not necessarily governed by the scouts or the coaches.
Speaker 1: The medical stuff in the background stuff that is, like
Speaker 1: the top decision makers have to deal with that. But
Speaker 1: you're Graaties, You're a great and I think we have
Speaker 1: to be careful of not necessarily trying to weigh in
Speaker 1: with the medical, Like it shouldn't impact whatever you saw
Speaker 1: on the player on the tape. Great on that, and
Speaker 1: then whatever happens with the medical is the medical. That's
Speaker 1: kind of exactly what Jeff you were just talking about
Speaker 1: of what Will McClay had to say whenever it comes
Speaker 1: to the medicals. I mean, we just saw one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty prospects go to Indianapolis and get the medicals
Speaker 1: checked out. But does that that's not supposed to change.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, Jeff, I basically switched the tag as
Speaker 1: to where they're going to get picked. Now. Of course
Speaker 1: I didn't get grown up into the scouting world at
Speaker 1: the same time like a Bucky or a Will McClay,
Speaker 1: But there's different aspects of the injuries that worried me
Speaker 1: to the point of being able to take a prospect
Speaker 1: a little bit later on than usual. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: think like Will mcclay's initial job was the idea of
Speaker 1: marrying the scouting department with the front office, with the
Speaker 1: coaches and all that, and like this will almost go
Speaker 1: into what we're going to talk about later with the
Speaker 1: rams not going on the road anymore. Like I just wonder,
Speaker 1: is that the best practice to just say, Hey, this
Speaker 1: player is this good, so we put him on the board,
Speaker 1: and then when we get on the clock later in
Speaker 1: the draft and he's falling because of his medicals, we
Speaker 1: just say, our doctors say it's okay, and we pick
Speaker 1: him and we get excited about having a first round talent.
Speaker 1: Or can we marry those two things where the medical
Speaker 1: people are saying, here's how we feel about it, and
Speaker 1: then you actually slot him where you're willing to pick
Speaker 1: them instead of where the talent dictates. I don't know.
Speaker 1: To me, that's what I would want my team to
Speaker 1: do is not getting on the clock and then looking
Speaker 1: up and go, guys, we still got that first round
Speaker 1: guy available. I would want to know, Hey, the first
Speaker 1: round guy with the back or with the knee or
Speaker 1: with the whatever, where did we decide his actual value
Speaker 1: is as a pick? And then that way we don't
Speaker 1: have to go back and forth on it while we're
Speaker 1: on the clock. Would just be like, yeah, he was
Speaker 1: the fourth best player in this draft, and we've decided
Speaker 1: we would be willing to pick him as the fortieth
Speaker 1: player in the draft, and so there he sits, instead
Speaker 1: of having to have that debate on the clock. It
Speaker 1: is something that all of these front offices are going
Speaker 1: to have to look at moving into these next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, especially with the medical information that the media
Speaker 1: is not going to have access to. I mean, we
Speaker 1: can try as hard as we want, but whenever it
Speaker 1: comes to the one hundred and fifty players that went
Speaker 1: to Indianapolis and had those medical checks. We have no
Speaker 1: idea how those turned out. Maybe Caleb Varley went there
Speaker 1: and proved to teams that he is a top ten
Speaker 1: caliber corner that he is ready to go despite some
Speaker 1: of the back issues. So there's a lot of question
Speaker 1: marks that are going to come and I think because
Speaker 1: of that, we're going to see a lot of light
Speaker 1: bulb picks in the first couple of rounds of the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft coming up here in sixteen days. Let's go
Speaker 1: to the final day of the NFL Draft, going all
Speaker 1: the way into May to talk in this first segment,
Speaker 1: And Katie, you brought up this topic in our group
Speaker 1: message this week, but we want to have a quick
Speaker 1: Day three round table. We've got about ten minutes twelve
Speaker 1: minutes or so to get to this before we get
Speaker 1: to Twitter on the twenty. But who are some of
Speaker 1: the more intriguing Day three guys, kat that come to mind?
Speaker 1: And we'll start on the offensive side of the football,
Speaker 1: a position that's the deepest and that's most likely to
Speaker 1: be picked by Dallas later in the draft. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think wide receivers the deepest, and I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: see them, you know, going that route. But for sure
Speaker 1: wide receivers the deepest, and I'll say it. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: I'm a un t guy, so I always want to
Speaker 1: give Jalen Darten some love. My idea here, you know,
Speaker 1: let's just kind of round him. Here's the guys that
Speaker 1: we like and this this. This could be guys that
Speaker 1: are fifth round grades or something, but like just some
Speaker 1: guys who are a little deeper down the line that
Speaker 1: you kind of maybe maybe like maybe you like him
Speaker 1: a little more than the rest of the world. I
Speaker 1: want to throw an offensive tackle because the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: gonna be in the offensive tackle market. And I like
Speaker 1: this guy from Florida, stone Forsyth. I don't think he's
Speaker 1: bigger run block, but he's six foot eight and he
Speaker 1: moves pretty well for a big man, like I always
Speaker 1: enjoy watching when I watched the MAVs play, I always
Speaker 1: enjoy when Bobon's in the game. But Bobon, you know,
Speaker 1: he doesn't move very well. But like a little big
Speaker 1: man love pull Porzingis can move a little bit. I'd
Speaker 1: like to watch the big guys play. Watch Joe Ownbi
Speaker 1: last night. He's a truck, but like stone forsythe is
Speaker 1: a pretty good pass blocker for a guy that's six eight.
Speaker 1: So that's a guy who I've got kind of in
Speaker 1: the fourth round, and you know, well, maybe a team
Speaker 1: takes a shot at him, you know, in the third round,
Speaker 1: maybe at late day two. But I think he'll probably
Speaker 1: be a Day three guy. But that's kind of my
Speaker 1: late discovery as we've been going on here. Stone Forsythe,
Speaker 1: the officive tackle from Florida. Nice. That might be my
Speaker 1: second favorite name in the NFL draft, behind Divine Diablo.
Speaker 1: I think that might Stone fourths life. Excuse me, I
Speaker 1: can't even say it. Forsythe might be my favorite name. Jeff,
Speaker 1: is there a Day three guy you're looking at? I
Speaker 1: actually think did you? Guys should be really happy. I
Speaker 1: think the guy at the top of the list for
Speaker 1: me would probably be Jalen Darden. Hey about watching watching
Speaker 1: him the other day. I just I think if you
Speaker 1: can find a guy that's going to be a little
Speaker 1: bit undervalued, whether it's because of level of competition or
Speaker 1: whether it's because of in his case size, I mean
Speaker 1: just looking at the number of spots that he gets in,
Speaker 1: Like in the screen game where you hit these quick
Speaker 1: hitters and you're like, oh, look, there's nowhere to go.
Speaker 1: There's definitely nowhere to go down the sideline, and then
Speaker 1: he teleports and he's down the sideline and he's slipped
Speaker 1: through somewhere where you don't think a human can fit.
Speaker 1: I actually think that that's a really good name, because
Speaker 1: in looking over a lot of the Day three guys,
Speaker 1: I actually didn't see a ton of guys with like
Speaker 1: you know, you're four two or four to three, Like, hey,
Speaker 1: can I just find a guy that can bring an
Speaker 1: element for me? And I think Darden has a little
Speaker 1: bit of that. And for the Cowboys on Day three,
Speaker 1: preparing for what's next at wide Receiver should probably be
Speaker 1: part of this for them. You don't have to do
Speaker 1: it early by any means, but with Gallup going into
Speaker 1: the last year of a deal, Maury Cooper has no
Speaker 1: guaranteed money left, and the NFL is so much about
Speaker 1: your weapons. Anyway, I think if the right guys there
Speaker 1: on day three, and I love the idea of being
Speaker 1: Jail and dardin at North Texas, I think it makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Yeah, I think. I think when
Speaker 1: you're dealing with like Day three guys like this typically
Speaker 1: comes down to trace and what are the redeeming qualities?
Speaker 1: Is a highway? Speed? Is a production? Can you envision
Speaker 1: them carving out a role, because when you're grading guys
Speaker 1: in the rounds four through seven, you're talking about backup
Speaker 1: or developmental players. So how can you see them get
Speaker 1: onto the field. Is that as a rotational pass rusher
Speaker 1: or a third or fourth wideout who also makes plays
Speaker 1: on special teams. There has to be something that buys
Speaker 1: them time to give them an opportunity to develop to
Speaker 1: the point where they can get a jersey on Sundays.
Speaker 1: And so when Jeff is talking about speed or trying
Speaker 1: to find a four two guy or something, typically when
Speaker 1: you're in that that bargain basement, then you're trying to
Speaker 1: find something that you're saying, hey, he has this, we
Speaker 1: can build up on this until he develops or rounds
Speaker 1: out the rest of his game. But I liked it,
Speaker 1: you know, go for you ahead, Cole. No, that's all
Speaker 1: ukt Well. I just wanted to give Like, I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to say this about
Speaker 1: you know, Jalen Darden because he played at UNT and
Speaker 1: Conference USA and they don't play a lot of top
Speaker 1: flight schools. But do you remember when people would talk
Speaker 1: about the when Cole Beasley left and signed the big
Speaker 1: contract with the Bills and they brought in Randall Cobb
Speaker 1: and it was one year, six million or whatever. But
Speaker 1: the discussion was while Beasley maybe a little bit more
Speaker 1: shifty underneath and able to get separation underneath, Cobb is
Speaker 1: more likely to go win down the field, and Darden
Speaker 1: can do both of those things. And this happens every
Speaker 1: year with draft analysts or scouts probably or whoever you know,
Speaker 1: fansy and falling in love with those kind of slot
Speaker 1: type of guys, like pure slot guys, and you have
Speaker 1: because of the size and because of maybe some limitations physically,
Speaker 1: they're probably a Day three guy. And I think that's
Speaker 1: probably right for Darden. But like he's got years of
Speaker 1: production to back it up, and he's not a fluke,
Speaker 1: Like I just can't say that from you know, and
Speaker 1: I know Kyle, and I've seen you in t play
Speaker 1: a ton because we went there and were proud of it.
Speaker 1: But like he's not a joke. He's not a joke
Speaker 1: at all. So like I think I'm glad that I
Speaker 1: hope people are taking him seriously because and who knows,
Speaker 1: I mean, again, we're probably talking I've got him in
Speaker 1: the fifth round still, because yeah, there's a ton of
Speaker 1: wide receivers and you can't put them all in one
Speaker 1: round when you're stacking them. But I do think, like
Speaker 1: this is not some guy to be slept on. This
Speaker 1: is this is legit. No, he was the programs all
Speaker 1: tithing leader in career receptions with two thirty receiving yards.
Speaker 1: He had almost three thousand receiving yards in his career,
Speaker 1: and he had thirty eight touchdowns and almost half of
Speaker 1: those came in last year's short and collegian season. So, like,
Speaker 1: like you said, Kat, not a joke by any means
Speaker 1: whenever we're talking about Jalen Dartins, because we actually think
Speaker 1: he's good. Sure he went to our alma mater, but
Speaker 1: even Jeff just went on a rant about him unprompted,
Speaker 1: and Jeff is not I know what Texas grad, even
Speaker 1: though he likes ACU a lot, and his team also
Speaker 1: wanted a game in the tournament. Now, Bucky, you were
Speaker 1: about to say something, Yeah, So there are a couple
Speaker 1: of different things. One when because he's not a small
Speaker 1: school guy, because he's a group of five like I
Speaker 1: would categorize that different than a small school guy would.
Speaker 1: I would think your small school guys are the ones
Speaker 1: that play at your FCS or D two level. The
Speaker 1: difference is with all of these guys, Like if you're
Speaker 1: not talking about a Power five guy, what you want
Speaker 1: to see is do I see consistent dominance of him
Speaker 1: versus his competition? Does he dominate whenever you turn on
Speaker 1: to tape. Then what you would like to do is
Speaker 1: see does he have an opportunity to play against a
Speaker 1: big school? And if he plays against a big school
Speaker 1: and he holds his own or he doesn't look like
Speaker 1: a fish out of water, then you can feel more
Speaker 1: confident about the grade that you're giving him based on
Speaker 1: the production and the performance that you've seen him against
Speaker 1: smaller competition. The other thing, because we talk about assigning
Speaker 1: round value round value like it's different because it's hard
Speaker 1: like on this side and the team side or whatever,
Speaker 1: but like it might help if you think about it
Speaker 1: this way, like think about assigning verbiage to round value,
Speaker 1: meaning first round guys should be guys that come in
Speaker 1: and start right away. Second round guys should be maybe
Speaker 1: borderline first year starters, but key contributors. Third rounders A
Speaker 1: may take a year or two before they get them
Speaker 1: the field, but by year two or three they should
Speaker 1: be starters. And then fourth through seventh round are those
Speaker 1: developmental guys. And in the fourth round typically is someone
Speaker 1: that could have been in that Day one a Day
Speaker 1: two category, but there's an issue. Whatever that issue. It
Speaker 1: could be character, it could be medical, it could be
Speaker 1: just like an inconsistent production. But the skills say that
Speaker 1: he could play up, but for whatever reason, here he is.
Speaker 1: And then as it goes down, your six and seventh
Speaker 1: round guys are kind of like your priority free agents,
Speaker 1: meaning I like a couple of skills that would give
Speaker 1: them a chance to make a roster, and I like
Speaker 1: them enough that I don't want them to hit the
Speaker 1: open market. That's why we're gonna draft him, because we
Speaker 1: want him more so than ay he's a free agent,
Speaker 1: then we're gonna outbid somebody else for him. Are rather
Speaker 1: securious services by expanding a pick on him, as opposed
Speaker 1: to competing maybe with others for their free agent market
Speaker 1: that we've seen kind of escalate when guys get out
Speaker 1: there after the draft is tongue, lots of thought process.
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes to trap prospects. Now going to the
Speaker 1: defensive side, Bucky, do you have any names that stick
Speaker 1: out from that side of the football Day three, because,
Speaker 1: I mean we've talked about it previously, but the Cowboys
Speaker 1: with ten picks ten picks overall, there's a lot that's
Speaker 1: gonna go into the defensive side. I mean, you could
Speaker 1: say seven or eight of those guys if they make
Speaker 1: all ten picks, could be defensive players. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: think what's interesting about defensive players in this secondary class
Speaker 1: in particulars We're gonna see a run on players and
Speaker 1: some of the notable names are going to end up
Speaker 1: on Day three. So like, for instance, prior to last year,
Speaker 1: everyone talked about Sean Wade. Sean Way was arguably one
Speaker 1: of the top slot corners. He goes outside this year,
Speaker 1: doesn't play as great, and now we haven't heard about him.
Speaker 1: But I would think in the fourth round he will
Speaker 1: probably fourth or fifth round, he's probably going to hear
Speaker 1: his name call just because he has a role that
Speaker 1: you can envision him playing. He was a nickel corner
Speaker 1: at Ohio State. He played his best when he played
Speaker 1: in the slot. If you put him back inside, he
Speaker 1: may play like the player that we saw play the
Speaker 1: first two years at Ohio State. There are other players
Speaker 1: that kind of fall into their toy Tray Brown from Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: who is big school guy, same thing, What does his
Speaker 1: best fit, where does he play, how can you envision
Speaker 1: him playing philosophically? It really just depends on how you
Speaker 1: view it from a front office standpoint. The Cowboys have
Speaker 1: been notorious for going for more smaller school guys in
Speaker 1: the back end of the draft because some people believe
Speaker 1: that there's more potential from a guy that plays at
Speaker 1: a smaller school because he hasn't been afforded all the
Speaker 1: luxuries of guys at bigger schools, meaning training, training table,
Speaker 1: all that stuff, so he has more maybe room to
Speaker 1: grow and develop, whereas a guy at a big school
Speaker 1: has been given everything. And so a lot of it
Speaker 1: just depends on how your scouts and coaches view that
Speaker 1: process and where do they want to shop at when
Speaker 1: it comes to those later round prospects. Jeff, you got
Speaker 1: some names, Okay, yeah, I'll the one, so I know
Speaker 1: Jeff likes Tom Graham, the cornerback from Oregon. I actually
Speaker 1: like the other organ cornerback John mdor Lenora. And again,
Speaker 1: you know we're talking about Day three that the run
Speaker 1: on corners is going to be real interesting because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of ways you can probably stack those guys
Speaker 1: and there's a ton of them. It's kind of a
Speaker 1: lot like wide receiver in that regard With Lenora, you know,
Speaker 1: I like the way he moves in terms of his
Speaker 1: fluidity and things like that. I'm not a fan of
Speaker 1: the lack of ball production. He did get thrown on
Speaker 1: a little bit his last couple of years, but you know,
Speaker 1: his better football was at the beginning, and I just
Speaker 1: see that potential there and if we're going like high
Speaker 1: end upside, like he had potential to be a true cornerback.
Speaker 1: Wanted organ he I mean, he was their cornerback one,
Speaker 1: but like it just continued to kind of fall off
Speaker 1: a little bit. So I want to find out what happened,
Speaker 1: kind of like Bucky was with Sean Wade, Like what happened,
Speaker 1: And it's kind of clear what happened with him. You know,
Speaker 1: once you moved him, it began became a bit of
Speaker 1: a problem outside. So with Lenor, the potential was always there,
Speaker 1: the upside was always there, and it just didn't finish
Speaker 1: out the right way. In Oregon, and you know they had,
Speaker 1: you know, coaching change and all that go down and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But when or's a guy who I
Speaker 1: still like and I'm willing to take a chance on
Speaker 1: because you see the fluid hips you seem always around
Speaker 1: the ball. He's kind of an almost guy. He's almost
Speaker 1: there all the time, and maybe he tightened that up
Speaker 1: a little bit. And he's a confident player. That's one
Speaker 1: thing you know about him is that he's confident. And
Speaker 1: if he's a guy who didn't get his head down
Speaker 1: when he gets picked on a little bit, you may
Speaker 1: we can work with something there. So I've got Lenore
Speaker 1: kind of on my radar there on day three as well.
Speaker 1: All right, so I have like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: guys that I'm gonna go through real quick, Guys the
Speaker 1: Cowboys love. I'm glad that Kat brought up corner because
Speaker 1: if there's two things the Cowboys love to draft, I
Speaker 1: would say it's corners and edge rushers, which makes sense
Speaker 1: because it's a premier position. But when you get when
Speaker 1: I started getting into the guys who and it's hard
Speaker 1: because you say day three and I'm like, okay, day
Speaker 1: three for me or day three for what I see
Speaker 1: from other outlets ranking players. So I'll just give you
Speaker 1: guys a handful of guys and if any of you
Speaker 1: have seen them, and I'm sure you've all seen them
Speaker 1: and want to weigh in, because as I'm working through
Speaker 1: a lot of these edges, it's guys who aren't being
Speaker 1: talked about as being early in the draft, but it's
Speaker 1: full sized dudes that I think the floor is fairly
Speaker 1: safe on some of these guys. Florida State both their
Speaker 1: edges Genarius Robinson and Joshua Kando. Is that how you
Speaker 1: say it? It is? Yeah, I mean both of them.
Speaker 1: You're talking about like six to five and two sixty
Speaker 1: and watching the length that they have play and you're
Speaker 1: watching the power play. I like those guys. Chauncey Golston
Speaker 1: at Iowa six five, two seventy, Like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of these edge guys that I feel like because there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of snap to their game in terms of,
Speaker 1: oh he's really going to turn the corner on you,
Speaker 1: or oh he's really got he ran six eight three cone.
Speaker 1: But these guys that are sort of steady, power length,
Speaker 1: those kind of players, I feel like those are the
Speaker 1: kind of guys that maybe they could get into rotation
Speaker 1: on your NFL team early and they're gonna stick around
Speaker 1: and they're going to last in the NFL because that's
Speaker 1: part of the league. So even though you're missing the
Speaker 1: massive upside with the athleticism, like it's almost like a
Speaker 1: budget Peyton Turner. I guess Houston's Peyton Turner will probably
Speaker 1: go earlier than these guys because he's huge, and his
Speaker 1: athletic testing was great, and he's got production. But I
Speaker 1: think that there's I think that there's a few other
Speaker 1: guys that can man the edge for you that if
Speaker 1: they start falling into the fourth and fifth round. I
Speaker 1: like him johncy Golston, Kando, Genarius Robinson, and even Ogan
Speaker 1: Deji at Notre Dame. Oh, I was about to bring
Speaker 1: his talking about sort of a length and power player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like him a lot. I mean, like you said, length,
Speaker 1: the power, the size. He's a senior bowld guy. He
Speaker 1: was a guy that had Notre Dame kind of stuck
Speaker 1: out from the pack a little bit at least in
Speaker 1: my mind whenever watching their tape. But I liked him
Speaker 1: a lot. Oh, I haven't gotten his pronunciation yet. How
Speaker 1: did you say that Jeff Ohgun did g Oh, I
Speaker 1: just took a while. I just took a while to
Speaker 1: swing it and went, Ogan dog, Okay, I'll just take
Speaker 1: a shot at it. Yeah, I'm not I'm not afraid.
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of small Kando owners. How about this? Oh,
Speaker 1: I actually Katt go with Kane Doe real quick, well,
Speaker 1: real quick, I said, Kane Dolo is kind of my
Speaker 1: Lenor of the the edge guys, because Kando is a
Speaker 1: guy who was, you know, better off early in his career,
Speaker 1: a very highly touted prospect and just didn't it just
Speaker 1: didn't work down the stretch at Florida State for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: So Lenoran Kandoe to me, I've kind of thinking about
Speaker 1: those guys in the same way, highly touted prospects who
Speaker 1: just had a good career early on it just kind
Speaker 1: of faded away through their college career. Kane Doe is
Speaker 1: a guy who I really do like. I think overall, now,
Speaker 1: a couple of small school corners, one of which I
Speaker 1: know you already liked, Jeff because of the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: Actually both of these guys went to the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: But Robert Rochelle out of Central Arkansas. How about a
Speaker 1: zero star recruit that came in and was locked down
Speaker 1: during his time in Mobile. Then Brian Mills transferred to
Speaker 1: North Carolina's Central from the College of the Canyons, another
Speaker 1: zero star recruit who was kind of a lockdown corner
Speaker 1: and cover one during his time playing for North Carolina's Central.
Speaker 1: Both of them decent in terms of corner length. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're not going to jump off the page, but they're quick,
Speaker 1: they are sticky in coverage. Jeff, I know you like Rochelle.
Speaker 1: Have you seen Brian Mills as well. I've only seen
Speaker 1: these guys from Senior Bowl stuff. Yeah. I mean if
Speaker 1: Bucky is if Bucky's holding out on this Rochelle all
Speaker 1: twenty two and he wants to shut a little over,
Speaker 1: I know Bucky. I know Bucky has the plug. If
Speaker 1: anybody's watching and has that Rochelle twenty two, I need it.
Speaker 1: He's one of the few guys I haven't seen. I've
Speaker 1: got a Jeff. Here's here's what I tell Yeah, here's
Speaker 1: what I tell you about Rochelle. And here's what is important.
Speaker 1: Sometimes when you dig in the background. The fact that
Speaker 1: Rochelle was third in the state and one hundred meters
Speaker 1: at Louisiana the time is ten eight. What that gives
Speaker 1: you is like, what you're trying to do is we
Speaker 1: talk about trying to find these these traits, these redeemable qualities.
Speaker 1: So he's probably a guy like at his pro day,
Speaker 1: four threes, four fours in that range. And then when
Speaker 1: you look at the fact that he has all of
Speaker 1: these plays on the ball, so twenty five career breakups,
Speaker 1: he has ten interceptions, and typically the way that it
Speaker 1: goes down, guys who get their hands on the ball
Speaker 1: and college also get their hands on the ball and
Speaker 1: the pros and so depending upon the style of play,
Speaker 1: and if we're talking about Dallas specifically, you have to
Speaker 1: find guys who are comfortable being nose to nose playing
Speaker 1: because dan Quinn is going to ask those guys to
Speaker 1: do nose to noose things, even though it's a hybrid
Speaker 1: covered three defense. And so Rochelle was certainly fit in there.
Speaker 1: I know we have this thought with the Cowboys that hey,
Speaker 1: they want everyone that's six three and stuff like that
Speaker 1: because of the Richard Sherman. But they played with guys
Speaker 1: that are five ten. They played with guys that are
Speaker 1: six foot or whatever. He taps in at like sixty one,
Speaker 1: which is certainly long enough. Anytime you can find a
Speaker 1: big quarter that can run even in a straight line,
Speaker 1: he is going to give a chance. You take chances
Speaker 1: on the guys because that speed and that length gives
Speaker 1: you an opportunity to cover some of those top receivers. Also,
Speaker 1: like another another name I want to throw out there.
Speaker 1: I know we probably need to go to break soon, Kyle, Yeah,
Speaker 1: another guy I just like watched late It's Elijah Griffin
Speaker 1: from USC. I'm always down to draft a guy who's
Speaker 1: the son of Warren g and the nephew of doctor Drane.
Speaker 1: Let's go. I'm down like whatever. I just want some
Speaker 1: cool stories, like I'm down for that. This is the
Speaker 1: next level draft analysis that you get here on the
Speaker 1: Allas Cowboys dot com Draft shows. We get the relations
Speaker 1: to famous artists and musical talents up here on the
Speaker 1: Draft Show. Yeah, let's go ahead and take our first break.
Speaker 1: When we come back, we've got a special edition of
Speaker 1: Twitter on the twenty We're giving out some signed Star
Speaker 1: magazine draft guides to whoever's questions we answer next. We'll
Speaker 1: do that right after the break here on the Dallas
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Speaker 1: three point two cards for twelve bounces. Is the Dallas
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, presented by Miller Light. As always,
Speaker 1: just sixteen days away from the NFL Draft. I know
Speaker 1: all of you at home are counting down just like
Speaker 1: we are, and of course you can count down the
Speaker 1: right way with the Dallas Cowboys Official Star magazine Draft Guy.
Speaker 1: You can get it on Dallas Cowboys dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also find it at the Cowboys Pro Shop as
Speaker 1: well a both physical and digital copy. Now if you
Speaker 1: buy the digital version, Unfortunately we can't sign that one. However,
Speaker 1: we are going to I mean, I guess we could
Speaker 1: sign it, Jeff with your NFTs. We are going to
Speaker 1: sign some physical copies and send them out to whoever's
Speaker 1: questions we answer right now on Twitter on the twenty
Speaker 1: on the Twitter there we go. Got it in the
Speaker 1: background from Chris Beam as always, and we're gonna start
Speaker 1: things off with bart of us Lee on Twitter. And
Speaker 1: I like this question a lot because he says, which
Speaker 1: prospects are the media and the scouts? Furthest Apart on
Speaker 1: We'll start that with Bucky since I guess you're part
Speaker 1: of the biggest media outlet that we have here sitting
Speaker 1: at the table. But what's the biggest difference in media
Speaker 1: and scouts right now? Gosh, I want to say the
Speaker 1: quarterback stuff, like the quarterback stuff with the guys after
Speaker 1: Trevor Laws, like the Zach Wilson, Mac Jones, Trey Lance
Speaker 1: justin field stuff. I think that conversation has spired us
Speaker 1: so far out of control because everyone wants to be
Speaker 1: right when it comes to the mock drafting stuff. That
Speaker 1: the stuff that I hear internally with teams and the
Speaker 1: fights that I have on Twitter is so crazy. And
Speaker 1: I think mac Jones is the one because like the
Speaker 1: mac Jones conversation is really so polarizing in terms of
Speaker 1: like you can appreciate and recognize what he did at Alabama,
Speaker 1: but then you also can be like, man, I just
Speaker 1: still don't see him as like that guy. And you
Speaker 1: have some scouts that are like, man, I wouldn't take
Speaker 1: that guy in the first round, and you have others
Speaker 1: who like rave about him and I think he's the
Speaker 1: next coming of Tom Brady or whatever. And it's just
Speaker 1: such a divide. And because scouts have been separate and
Speaker 1: apart for pretty much the entire year, you don't have
Speaker 1: think tank, which is great, but it also leads to
Speaker 1: more volatility. So I think when we finally get the
Speaker 1: draft night, Draft Knight is going to blow our mind
Speaker 1: because I don't know if we really know how people
Speaker 1: really view these prospects when it comes to putting them
Speaker 1: off the board. Jen I couldn't agree more. I think,
Speaker 1: like Bucky's coming about, like everyone wants to be right
Speaker 1: on their mocking drafts in the end how many times,
Speaker 1: And I know there's a few websites that go look
Speaker 1: at it, but after the draft happens outside of the
Speaker 1: people who do the bock drafts regularly, how many people
Speaker 1: even bring it up like this guy was right and
Speaker 1: this guy was wrong, Like that might come up in
Speaker 1: inner circles. There's maybe like one aggregator website that keeps
Speaker 1: those wreck dude, who cares. I'm not thinking about who
Speaker 1: mocked whoever correctly. Once the draft is done, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're moving on to the next stage of building
Speaker 1: your team. So like I do think that's very very interesting.
Speaker 1: And you know, another player I want to throw out
Speaker 1: there is you know, I mean, it's it's weird when
Speaker 1: you talk about like media because I don't always follow
Speaker 1: like a ton of media when it comes to this stuff,
Speaker 1: Like you get your people that you follow kind of
Speaker 1: and then you're kind of like, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff I kind of blow out when I'm
Speaker 1: tracking the draft. Um but like I did see like
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. Um uh, guy, let's I don't know
Speaker 1: what his title is, but as Jim Naggy, what the
Speaker 1: director executive director? Yeah, director, Yeah, that's the word I'm
Speaker 1: looking for. And he had this big tweet about Divine
Speaker 1: Diablo talking about him going in you know on day
Speaker 1: two and I said, yeah. I mean, I like Divine Diablo,
Speaker 1: but I didn't necessarily see him as a guy who
Speaker 1: would be a you know, I know he's your guy.
Speaker 1: I know he's your guy. I know he's your guy.
Speaker 1: But I had executively see Divine Diablo as a top
Speaker 1: one hundred player. This year's drag full there, lay full there.
Speaker 1: So you know, well, we'll see in your door and
Speaker 1: talk bad about the things in your life. Do I
Speaker 1: don't do that? Okay, so let's just you can. Oh,
Speaker 1: let's just be cool about Dio player. Everybody is so
Speaker 1: thrown off because he's a two hundred and thirty pounds safety.
Speaker 1: It's not his fault that he's able to carry that
Speaker 1: weight and silver in a four four. Why don't you
Speaker 1: back off a little bit, my guys staying two player
Speaker 1: William alone. Just don't make him cover and he's fine.
Speaker 1: Just don't make him cover. Who made that up? I did?
Speaker 1: Stop making stuff up. It's like justin fields one right thing.
Speaker 1: Don't pretend my guy can't cover. My guy can cover.
Speaker 1: You chill out on to buy Diablo given to me.
Speaker 1: You don't need him, you don't deserve him. I don't
Speaker 1: want him. What are some of the guys at least,
Speaker 1: that you think that the scouts in the media are
Speaker 1: furthest apart on, Well, I would like to take this
Speaker 1: opportunity to admit to the world that it took me
Speaker 1: a long time to get a hold of twenty twenty
Speaker 1: USC tape and um, like, I think that this topic
Speaker 1: is really tough because I don't really know how NFL
Speaker 1: teams feel about these players, and honestly, I don't care
Speaker 1: how media feels about these players. I think if you
Speaker 1: watch these guys, then what other people think shouldn't matter.
Speaker 1: Like KAT can honestly feel how every once about a player,
Speaker 1: and I will, and it doesn't bother me in the
Speaker 1: slightest And however they turn out, his however they turn out.
Speaker 1: But I think the narrative seems to be that Pinay
Speaker 1: Soul is the crown jewel of the offensive line class.
Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you, I actually think three guys
Speaker 1: belong in that conversation, and I know that Bucky is
Speaker 1: onto one of them because I saw him in a
Speaker 1: mock draft and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And
Speaker 1: then I watched the twenty twenty tape of Elijah Vera
Speaker 1: Tucker and as I'm watching it and I'm tweeting about it,
Speaker 1: people are wait till you get to organ and he
Speaker 1: gets destroyed, And I'm like, I'm actually three quarters of
Speaker 1: the way through Oregon and all my notes are about
Speaker 1: how good he is. So I don't know who created
Speaker 1: this narrative. They're like, he got his butt kicked against
Speaker 1: Oregon because they've got a nice defensive end who got
Speaker 1: around him once. And I'm like, wow, we just people
Speaker 1: just run with whatever somebody told them once upon a time.
Speaker 1: But Pinay Soul, Rashaw Slater, Elijah Vera Tucker, they're all studs,
Speaker 1: and so I wouldn't be surprised if for Shawn Slater's
Speaker 1: the first lineman off the board, like Sewel's an incredible prospect,
Speaker 1: but so is Rashawn Slater and Elijah Vera Tucker. I
Speaker 1: think he's right at their heels. I think that there
Speaker 1: are some studs in this class. So, Jeff, is funny
Speaker 1: you talked about that. I have people on the West
Speaker 1: Coast who've told me they ring very Tucher over Piney
Speaker 1: Soul believe he's the best guy on the West. They
Speaker 1: believe he's the best guy on the West coast. And
Speaker 1: then I have others who believe that Pinay Seul is
Speaker 1: a stud that is a twelve year pro and a
Speaker 1: multiple time All Pro because he's three hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: pounds at twenty years of age and he can move
Speaker 1: like a dancing bear on the edge and his best
Speaker 1: football as ahead of him. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: it when it comes to all of those guys, even
Speaker 1: Rashaun Slater, who I think is a technical marvel, may
Speaker 1: not be the nastiest in turn visits playing demeanor and disposition,
Speaker 1: but look from a technical standpoint, he can get it.
Speaker 1: He can get it done. I think all of it
Speaker 1: kind of goes with where they plug and play and fit.
Speaker 1: Because last year, I remember, the conversation was negative a
Speaker 1: little bit on Tristan Worse, and then we go and
Speaker 1: fast forward a year later, everyone's raving about how well
Speaker 1: Tristan Worse's played. So a lot of it depends on
Speaker 1: where they go, where they land, and on that line.
Speaker 1: Because the offensive line is so dependent upon the neighborhood
Speaker 1: and the neighbors who's playing to the right and left
Speaker 1: to you, and how do you utilize your help? It matters,
Speaker 1: and so I think all three of those guys are good.
Speaker 1: I think Derenshaw can be in the conversations as a
Speaker 1: solid guy. I think Tevin Jenkins from Oklahoma State, depending
Speaker 1: on style of player or whatever. I put Tevin Jenkins
Speaker 1: in Baltimore's offense, I bet he looks like a pro
Speaker 1: bowler right away, just right. So a lot of it is,
Speaker 1: A lot of it is Okay, this is how this
Speaker 1: player plays. Man, what would be a great fit for
Speaker 1: this player in terms of they played the way that
Speaker 1: he wants to play in those things, because that's really
Speaker 1: how it comes down to, because that will ultimately determine
Speaker 1: how these guys are. I don't know if any of
Speaker 1: these guys are like the transcendent types, where like the
Speaker 1: Walter Jones or the Larry Allen's that it didn't matter
Speaker 1: where they played, they're gonna be elite, high level players.
Speaker 1: But I think they're all are very very good, and
Speaker 1: I think they're all are worthy of being in a
Speaker 1: discussion up at the top of the board. I've really
Speaker 1: grown on what Tevin Jenkins brings to the table. Out
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma State. We're showing a ton of highlights of
Speaker 1: him up on the board at the moment, and a man,
Speaker 1: they're just nuts. I mean, he's pretty solid whenever to
Speaker 1: the outside he is. He's a big bully. Okay. So
Speaker 1: we've got four questions to get to here the next
Speaker 1: like seven minutes. So Chris Staff says, outside of Alabama cornerback,
Speaker 1: which position slash college combo with prior success for the
Speaker 1: Cowboys is the most logical for them to tap into
Speaker 1: this draft. And he gave an example because that's kind
Speaker 1: of tough to keep up with. But like Tyler Beattish
Speaker 1: and Travis Frederick position player college combo to where you
Speaker 1: could potentially go and get it. Jeff, you got a guy.
Speaker 1: I gotta Kyle check this out. Man. At least one
Speaker 1: of you is gonna hate this. Maybe on three year
Speaker 1: gonna hate this, Okay, but you know what, I'm sick
Speaker 1: and tired to see him. I'm sick and tired to
Speaker 1: seeing mock draft that have Jalen Waddle going either eleven
Speaker 1: or twelve. You've had a lot of great success with
Speaker 1: a Marii Cooper there, the Alabama receiver that you traded for.
Speaker 1: Why don't you just go ahead and take Jalen Waddle
Speaker 1: so that the Giants or Eagles don't get to do
Speaker 1: it all right, I'm talking to you guys next week.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. I gotta go, Yeff,
Speaker 1: I know I love it, but I also love the
Speaker 1: conversation we were just having. How about Tyrann Smith that
Speaker 1: Elijah Vera Tucker? Hey, I having fun? Now, aren't we had?
Speaker 1: Now we're having fun? Can I can? I can? I
Speaker 1: threw granade? Cantade? Did Jeff not just throw some cow
Speaker 1: Some cowboy fans will love it? I hate it? But um,
Speaker 1: how about Notre Dame and a Notre Dame linebacker Jay?
Speaker 1: Like I'm just saying, I mean, since they've had so
Speaker 1: much success with James Smift, why not double dip in
Speaker 1: the Notre Dame pond and allowed Jay? Okay, and that
Speaker 1: a linebacker spot. Yeah, you're talking about a Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: line backer who earned a big second contract. I think
Speaker 1: you try to bark up that tree again. Let's go,
Speaker 1: jk Yeah, you know this sounds like this sounds like
Speaker 1: Captain trade down gets to ride here. If we're picking
Speaker 1: between Bara Tucker and j ok Yeah, let's go. Let's
Speaker 1: get down to fifteen with New England and let's see
Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, and Bill clay Born and carry Vincent
Speaker 1: Lsu Wait, okay, we're reaching yeah, trade sermon, Ohio State
Speaker 1: running back? How about we use Tennessee's tight end this year?
Speaker 1: I was gonna say an SEC tight end, Florida's tight end.
Speaker 1: If Kyle Pitts they wear orange, they're in the SEC,
Speaker 1: could maybe throw that in there. And in terms of
Speaker 1: path chets that you have, I know it's totally cheating.
Speaker 1: Good question, Chris. I like that. That's fun. We can
Speaker 1: make a whole Segment's got a guard this year, don't
Speaker 1: they Bay do? Yeah? Old Bank hey with a Notre
Speaker 1: Dame guard. Yeah, I like that. Doug Brady asked how
Speaker 1: does the process work for deciding a trade up slash
Speaker 1: trade down? When are those conversations had between teams and
Speaker 1: internally who decides or is it a collective decision? Bucky
Speaker 1: probably be the best one to answer that one. You
Speaker 1: start having conversations after your board is said in terms
Speaker 1: of the prospects, and you're beginning to try and figure out, Okay,
Speaker 1: who could be in that cluster or who could be
Speaker 1: in range, or you go through what we call these
Speaker 1: mock draft scenarios. Hey, if these four guys are available,
Speaker 1: like the Cowboys at ten. If these guys are available
Speaker 1: at six, any of them worth us moving up to get?
Speaker 1: If I mean, I don't know who would be in
Speaker 1: this scenario. Okay, let's just use Calipis because Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: talked about him. If Calipiz is suddenly available at seven,
Speaker 1: is it worth talking to the Carolina Panthers or the
Speaker 1: Detroit Lines to get in that range? What would be
Speaker 1: willing to give up to get him? Mike McCarthy, If
Speaker 1: we got him, how we utilize and would that make
Speaker 1: us better? Or would sitting and picking past or ten
Speaker 1: make us better? Which guy would make us a better team?
Speaker 1: That's the conversation that you have. And if you can
Speaker 1: convince the decision maker a we're much better team if
Speaker 1: we have cow Pits over Patricks or ten. If we
Speaker 1: can make it happy, let's go make it happy. Let's
Speaker 1: put a phone call. Then, Oh, the phone call was receptive.
Speaker 1: Are we willing to part with whatever it is? Yes?
Speaker 1: Because we will be that much better. Dad could be
Speaker 1: better at the office. Is unstoppable. Yet we don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about stopping the run because now we're hanging
Speaker 1: fifty on them and it doesn't matter. So those conversations
Speaker 1: and then Bucky, do you guys have the same ones
Speaker 1: about potentially trading down. Let's just say i'll drop a
Speaker 1: Cowboys scenario. You're at ten, Patriots want to come and
Speaker 1: get those fifth quarterbacks still available? Do you sit there
Speaker 1: and count on your hand. You're like, okay, but how
Speaker 1: many guys are we good with? Because we got to
Speaker 1: get to five, because if we can't get to five,
Speaker 1: we can get fifteen and lose our guys. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you have to have you have to have you have
Speaker 1: to be comfortable with five guys that you're like, oh, look,
Speaker 1: these five guys are on the board. We're comfortable with
Speaker 1: any of those guys, So yeah, we can move back.
Speaker 1: Or you want to be in a cluster where you're
Speaker 1: fine with whatever's left if somebody does a surprise pick
Speaker 1: ahead of you, or those things. So yes, if there's
Speaker 1: a cluster of guys available, or a cluster of guys
Speaker 1: that are similarly graded, and you're like, yeah, I'm fine,
Speaker 1: we moved down to fifteen, not a problem, We'll pick
Speaker 1: up an extra whatever. Yeah, you can make that happen.
Speaker 1: And certainly the Cowboys are going to be in this
Speaker 1: bright in the sweet spot of that conversation. Moving on
Speaker 1: to David Leach's question, I'm gonna start with you on
Speaker 1: this one, Kat, who are some Day three corners that
Speaker 1: might be able to make the move to safety, especially
Speaker 1: if they don't draft a free safety early on. Quinn
Speaker 1: has experienced moving guys like Kazee and Ricardo Allen. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw it last year with Reggie Robinson.
Speaker 1: He was a Day three corner who switched over to safety.
Speaker 1: It didn't necessarily work out, but Dan Quinn's had a
Speaker 1: lot more success with things like that. Do you see
Speaker 1: anybody in that realm in terms of the cornerbacks that
Speaker 1: could potentially make the move. I mean there's a lot
Speaker 1: of guys they think who could do that, But it's
Speaker 1: something that I would like, like push for immediately. Um.
Speaker 1: But there's one name I want to throw out there
Speaker 1: is McPherson, the Texas Tech cornerback, because he has shown
Speaker 1: that he can play both inside and outside. He can
Speaker 1: play man, he can play his own. He's got a
Speaker 1: pretty good understanding of what to do, and you don't
Speaker 1: always see that on Texas techs. Uh, you know, got
Speaker 1: a really bad defense. He didn't have a ton of
Speaker 1: help at all times. So it's very hard to you know,
Speaker 1: watch a lot of Texas Tech games and be like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a guy standing out here. But McPherson
Speaker 1: is a pretty good player, um, and he's a guy
Speaker 1: who could maybe move. He's only got a couple of years.
Speaker 1: I mean he transferred Penn State, so I had a
Speaker 1: couple of years at Tech. Again, we're talking deep day
Speaker 1: three though, we're talking like, you know, fourth or fifth
Speaker 1: round there with with with Lindzag McPherson. That's a name.
Speaker 1: When I was watching him on tape, is kind of going,
Speaker 1: would he be a guy I can maybe move and
Speaker 1: let him just kind of roam around in center field.
Speaker 1: I think that's the type of guy that I like.
Speaker 1: That's just a name to throw out there because he
Speaker 1: had a lot of ball into a ball. He had
Speaker 1: a lot of ball production last year. Had four interceptions
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. In high school, he was insane. He
Speaker 1: had fourteen interceptions in high school. Should be a bit
Speaker 1: of a playmaker and then move from Pitts Safe to
Speaker 1: Tech kind of hurt him, but keep it on. Zach McPherson.
Speaker 1: He's a guy that hasn't been talked about a ton,
Speaker 1: and I think he's a potential guy that you could
Speaker 1: move over to safety. And I think Bucky nailed a
Speaker 1: guy earlier, where Sean Wade. I think with the natural
Speaker 1: name for tips to consider moving to safety, just because
Speaker 1: my theory on safety, and with all due respect to
Speaker 1: anybody out there who's playing safety right this second in
Speaker 1: their car, you can fail your way from corner to safety,
Speaker 1: and I think that might have just happened to Sean Wade,
Speaker 1: whereas an outside corner wasn't work in but you'd seen
Speaker 1: him in the slots, You're like, Okay, is he physical
Speaker 1: enough to be a safety. The athleticism, if you've played corners,
Speaker 1: probably good enough to play safety. Well, what's your spatial
Speaker 1: awareness like? So I think Sean Wade's probably the shot
Speaker 1: in the dark, fourth or fifth round guy where you say,
Speaker 1: maybe we're gonna play him in the slot, Maybe we're
Speaker 1: gonna see if he can play safety and what does
Speaker 1: that look like? Yeah, I like the name. I think
Speaker 1: Sean Wade because it showed up if you go back
Speaker 1: and you watch that game versus Clemson two years ago
Speaker 1: in the playoffs where you got kicked out for the hit.
Speaker 1: I think he was inside and doing some of those things.
Speaker 1: It's a different skill set. If you talk about a transition,
Speaker 1: meaning converting a corner to free safety, I think it
Speaker 1: was interested. As it relates to dan Quinn Demontez. He
Speaker 1: had so many interceptions as a college corner, seventeen or
Speaker 1: eighteen interceptions. Why he was at San Diego State, he
Speaker 1: was two time Mountain West Defensive Player of the Year
Speaker 1: because he could get his hands on the ball. In
Speaker 1: a perfect world, if you think about moving someone to
Speaker 1: a centerfield safety type, you want someone who can get
Speaker 1: the ball like that. I don't know if there's a
Speaker 1: player in the draft this year that kind of has
Speaker 1: that capability. But it's different because the job description is
Speaker 1: not an easy transition, asking a guy to go from
Speaker 1: on the island to playing in the middle, because he
Speaker 1: not only has to now see the entire field, but
Speaker 1: he also has to be a tough enough dude to
Speaker 1: come up and smack Zeke Elliott when he breaks through
Speaker 1: the hole. And every corner isn't built for that life
Speaker 1: because that life is completely different. It's a different job description.
Speaker 1: Coming down, he'll kind of deal with those bangers that
Speaker 1: are running through, so they have to exhibit enough toughness
Speaker 1: and physicality at the outside while also having some ball
Speaker 1: awareness and ranged to be able to do it. So
Speaker 1: they may be speed deficient, but man, the toughness and
Speaker 1: physicality has to be there. You can't make the move. Bucky,
Speaker 1: I've got a guy that fits that mold. But he
Speaker 1: also played a little bit of free safety in college.
Speaker 1: He went back and forth between corner and free safety.
Speaker 1: Israel Mukuamu from South Carolina. He's a little bit longer
Speaker 1: than I think he would want. He's like six to four.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a huge corner, but he's only two
Speaker 1: hundred and twelve pounds. He's quick enough. He didn't run
Speaker 1: a forty, so I can't really pull up that number,
Speaker 1: but he's quick enough on tape to be ranging. I know,
Speaker 1: I know there's a regional reason for that. But he
Speaker 1: led the team and interceptions, and remember this is a
Speaker 1: team that had JC horn on it. Led the team
Speaker 1: and interceptions in each of the last two seasons. He
Speaker 1: had one start in twenty nineteen a free safety, three
Speaker 1: starts in twenty twenty in just six games, but he
Speaker 1: also played corner throughout the rest of those games that
Speaker 1: he opted out toward the end of the season. He's
Speaker 1: a guy who I know is listed as kind of
Speaker 1: one of those tweeter guys between corner and safety because
Speaker 1: I've seen it on boards throughout the league, and I've
Speaker 1: also seen it on things like this where he did
Speaker 1: play both free safety and corner. So that's another name
Speaker 1: I wanted to throw out there really quickly. Final question,
Speaker 1: if I can bring up my notes again here on
Speaker 1: my laptop. Coach Forte one of our favorites on Twitter,
Speaker 1: he said, doesn't get talked about him much, but what
Speaker 1: are some of the late round running backs Dallas could
Speaker 1: look at? Pollard is in year three of four deal
Speaker 1: and then Zeke is of course Zeke good and bad.
Speaker 1: So there's some back and forth there from the running
Speaker 1: back spot. Jeff, have you seen any running backs? I
Speaker 1: know you hate watching quarterbacks, so does Kat, but have
Speaker 1: you seen any tale Algie Harris saw? I saw Nagie
Speaker 1: Harris play live this year. I saw both North Carolina
Speaker 1: backs play live this year, and I saw the Clemson
Speaker 1: back play live this year, and they're all pretty good.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't draft any of them, Bucky, I'd wait until
Speaker 1: about the fourth or fifth round and just pick a
Speaker 1: guy because they're just running backs. Show to me, oh man,
Speaker 1: that's so just. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't wait
Speaker 1: till the fourth But I do believe the sweet spot
Speaker 1: is anywhere day two you can get a running back.
Speaker 1: There's so many running backs that are good that can
Speaker 1: be productive that I don't think you have to really
Speaker 1: go outside of it. I love Nagieris, I like Javonte Williams,
Speaker 1: Travis Attend. But I can make a case that a
Speaker 1: rather than take those guys early, I could take a
Speaker 1: Colin Hill and have similar production. You know, Um, I
Speaker 1: can take other guys Tray Sermon, if Trey Sermon's healthy,
Speaker 1: I can have similar production. It's about really being able
Speaker 1: to take the player and understand, here's how we playing,
Speaker 1: this is what we want to do. So I don't
Speaker 1: need to go crazy for a running back. But I
Speaker 1: would say the same thing. I wouldn't go crazy over
Speaker 1: a wide receiver either. Though. My running back pet Cats
Speaker 1: Kenneth Gainwell because he's also a wide receiver. Um No,
Speaker 1: he's really not technically a wide receiver, but he can
Speaker 1: do it. Um and I I just love that he's
Speaker 1: a great pass catcher. So, um, but you said the
Speaker 1: guy said day three, right, the guy said, Day three?
Speaker 1: How about Elijah Mitchell Louisiana runs a four three one
Speaker 1: forty allegedly, So uh, you know like that that that
Speaker 1: explosive take it to the house type. Let's go. Let's
Speaker 1: go to Jaquan Hardy from Tiffin University, the Tiffin Dragons.
Speaker 1: That's my day three guys to look out for. How
Speaker 1: about that? And good luck trying to find Tiffin tams. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: good luck trying to find it. It's funny, you say,
Speaker 1: Kenneth Gainwell, Katie, we've had some success with Memphis running
Speaker 1: backs that are kind of wide receivers in college as well.
Speaker 1: So hey, maybe we're going back to Chris Staff's question
Speaker 1: earlier in the segment. Thank you so much for sending
Speaker 1: in some fantastic Twitter on the twenty questions. We'll be
Speaker 1: sure to send out those magazines to you that we
Speaker 1: answered questions from today. We'll answer five more questions on
Speaker 1: Thursday show with Brian brought us David Hellman and of
Speaker 1: course Dane Brugler, so we'll have those sent out for
Speaker 1: those answered as well. But when we come back here
Speaker 1: on the Draft Show is the GPS, the new age
Speaker 1: of scouting and drafting. We'll talk about it next on
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Back here on the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. We've got some fun enter
Speaker 1: DFW rivalries brewing on this show, and I love it.
Speaker 1: And it's brewing in the middle of the break. Jeff Kavanaugh,
Speaker 1: Kevin KT Turner, We've got Bucky Brooks, some Kyle Yeoman's
Speaker 1: final couple minutes and really quick Jeff, Uh. We wanted
Speaker 1: to bring up this article from The Athletic. Jordan Rodrigue
Speaker 1: was the one that, uh that wrote this. I hope
Speaker 1: I said that last name right. She does fantastic work
Speaker 1: at the Athletic, but I didn't. I bet I didn't either.
Speaker 1: It looks like Rodriguez, but without a Z, so it's
Speaker 1: almost like Rodrigue. I tried to look up the pronunciation.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I got it wrong, Please tell Okay
Speaker 1: rod week Away. Uh deep dive into the changes made
Speaker 1: by the Rams in the draft process. Jeff, give us
Speaker 1: a summary over this article that you can go find
Speaker 1: on the Athletic. But it really was interesting as to
Speaker 1: how less need Sean McVay and his entire staff did
Speaker 1: not hit the road for this college football season and
Speaker 1: this draft process and how it really hasn't changed a
Speaker 1: whole lot for them. Yeah, so they basically in reading
Speaker 1: through the basically the RAMS this year. You look around
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl, or you look around at a
Speaker 1: pro date, it's like, hey, where are the Rams? The
Speaker 1: RAMS aren't going anywhere. And the answer to it, according
Speaker 1: to less Neat, is well, you had the pandemic. And
Speaker 1: he's like, and honestly, we kind of don't need to.
Speaker 1: And I love this thought process by NFL teams, whether
Speaker 1: you agree or disagree with any individual sort of action,
Speaker 1: but they're thinking right now is are we better served
Speaker 1: going out to every individual thing or we better serve
Speaker 1: being at the combine watching people jump into forties and
Speaker 1: interviewing players, or would we be better served spending way
Speaker 1: less time getting way more tape watched and we'll still
Speaker 1: be able to interview these players on zoom and we'll
Speaker 1: have an hour with them where they're more comfortable instead
Speaker 1: of fifteen or twenty minutes where they're surrounded by twelve
Speaker 1: of us and they're coached on their answers. So I
Speaker 1: think it's just the RAMS using the pandemic as an
Speaker 1: opportunity to go okay, But let's also re examine the
Speaker 1: way that we do everything. Are we doing all these
Speaker 1: things because it helps us or because it's the way
Speaker 1: it's always been done. They said, the most important thing
Speaker 1: that the combine is the medicals. Our doctors are there,
Speaker 1: we're doing the doctor stuff. We're giving the medicals, but
Speaker 1: we have GPS tracking from their college games. I don't
Speaker 1: need to be there to watch them run a forty.
Speaker 1: I'll get the numbers from their vertical jump. I don't
Speaker 1: need to be there. So instead of sending a giant
Speaker 1: contingent to everything, they're letting the information come to them
Speaker 1: and saying, essentially, we think that we can do it
Speaker 1: as good or better in a less amount of time
Speaker 1: and have time to do other things by doing it
Speaker 1: this way, which I thought was fascinating and I thought
Speaker 1: would be a great question for Bucky, who's been a
Speaker 1: part of the NFL process. Are those changes something where
Speaker 1: the rams are smart and just asking themselves honest questions
Speaker 1: and evaluating themselves or are they missing out? No? No,
Speaker 1: I think it's really smart, and I think it's part
Speaker 1: of a thing that was trending before the pandemic. The
Speaker 1: pandemic only accelerated it years before we started seeing teams
Speaker 1: keep their scouts away from the combine, not only because
Speaker 1: the cost, because instead of sending ten to twelve guys
Speaker 1: instead of combine for that, it like, what are you gathering?
Speaker 1: The event now is on TV, you get all the
Speaker 1: official numbers, So what is it that you're really doing
Speaker 1: outside of the interviews? The pandemic gave us the opportunity
Speaker 1: to see that, oh, we can do virtual things. We
Speaker 1: can conduct interviews via zoom and get the same stuff
Speaker 1: out of it. In fact, we can have multiple interviews
Speaker 1: with a prospect and really get to know them as
Speaker 1: opposed to the hard sit down at dinner or at
Speaker 1: the combine and those things. And then when it comes
Speaker 1: to grinding on the tape, yeah, that's the most efficient way.
Speaker 1: If you want to be accurate in terms of the draft,
Speaker 1: you have to put more time in when it comes
Speaker 1: to studying the tape. The other stuff takes away from
Speaker 1: that time that you can devote to film study. So
Speaker 1: I applaud the Rans for being able to do it.
Speaker 1: The final thing that you brought up was the GPS.
Speaker 1: I knew that the GPS thing was a big deal
Speaker 1: last year when they drafted Van Jefferson. I think van
Speaker 1: Jefferson after the Senior Bowl might have had an ankle
Speaker 1: clean up, so they never got an official forty. But
Speaker 1: they say they were fine because they had all of
Speaker 1: his GPS stuff from his time at Florida and they
Speaker 1: actually found out that he was faster than me, and
Speaker 1: he speculated based off of game action speed as opposed
Speaker 1: to the manufacturer speed that can be produced on a
Speaker 1: prodem And it's like reading that article, you still are
Speaker 1: reminded that article that the tape is still a paramount.
Speaker 1: And then you use all these things and there's a
Speaker 1: quote in there that I like, and I like when
Speaker 1: this stuff like almost translates to like real life as well,
Speaker 1: just for the common person like myself. But they said,
Speaker 1: is there a reason we're doing this? Are we doing
Speaker 1: this because it's the way it's always been, or we
Speaker 1: should we change up the way we do things, and
Speaker 1: like every company in the world's thinking about this, or Okay,
Speaker 1: do we really need this huge building? Do we really
Speaker 1: need everyone in the building? And I think that's really fascinating.
Speaker 1: You got an NFL team out here just saying how
Speaker 1: do we work more efficient? And you know, there's a
Speaker 1: thing we were talking about waiting certain testing scores, you know,
Speaker 1: for a different position, like for instance, the forty yard
Speaker 1: dash for a linebacker, that doesn't mean a ton to me.
Speaker 1: I need to know how he can change direction, you know,
Speaker 1: and things like that, and like that's I like tell
Speaker 1: they talked about how they were kind of for different
Speaker 1: positions or for different things that were looking for, whether
Speaker 1: it be like a slot type of guy working over
Speaker 1: the middle of the field. They wanted to kind of
Speaker 1: a bigger slot working in the middle of the field,
Speaker 1: and Cooper Cup it didn't really bother them. The Cooper
Speaker 1: Cup didn't run a four four forty, And I thought
Speaker 1: that was really interesting somebody how they kind of waited
Speaker 1: things differently for what they were looking for and certain players.
Speaker 1: I think, I think that is interesting, and I think
Speaker 1: it's always been a thing, like wanted to polarizing prospects
Speaker 1: that people have kind of beat up on, and rightfully
Speaker 1: so like Gregor Rousseau, like his pro day workout, I
Speaker 1: think he ran four seven four four seven eight, but
Speaker 1: his ten time was faster than the overwhelming majority of
Speaker 1: the pass rushers in the draft. And so when you
Speaker 1: think about first step quickness and explosiveness, how well does
Speaker 1: that translate to sack production in those things. Forty times
Speaker 1: and vertical jumps typically correlate. So when you're looking at
Speaker 1: your dbs with their arm length and those guys that
Speaker 1: run fast and jump high, man covered, those are man
Speaker 1: covered corners and that stuff. So all those drills certainly
Speaker 1: play your part in the evaluation. You have to understand
Speaker 1: what batter your drills translates for which positions. It took
Speaker 1: us until a minute over time for us to mention
Speaker 1: Gregory Rousseau in this podcast. Whenever we know that Bucky
Speaker 1: Brooks is very high on Gregory Rousseau and Jeff Cavanaugh
Speaker 1: is very well, oh are you not like like I
Speaker 1: like has created a place I'm not fight about things
Speaker 1: and I'm cheering for literally everyone to do well. I
Speaker 1: hope Rousseau. No, no, well, I didn't talk of him
Speaker 1: as the first ten picks. I was just like, I
Speaker 1: don't see no, no, and I don't see him. I
Speaker 1: don't see him like that. I think the main thing
Speaker 1: I saw him in a light that is more like
Speaker 1: Jason Pierre Paul. When Jason Pierre Paul was coming out
Speaker 1: of South Florida, meaning Jason Pierre Paul was an unknown
Speaker 1: who had only played nine games, and the Giants gambled
Speaker 1: on his traits and they were rewarded after he played
Speaker 1: with Jet Justin Tuck and O Humanu or whatever. Rousseau
Speaker 1: to me is similar in that vein because look, man,
Speaker 1: this is a high school safety wide receiver whatever. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's tough enough to live down on
Speaker 1: that line of scrimmage in that life, but the traits
Speaker 1: are intriguing. So in a class where you don't have
Speaker 1: any proven dudes, you tend to gamble on traits over
Speaker 1: the other stuff. I should say that none of the
Speaker 1: ad drushers or offensive tackles offensive vironement in this draft
Speaker 1: could hang with King Kong versus Godzilla. That fight was incredible,
Speaker 1: Like you don't need any pass rush moves in that fight.
Speaker 1: They're just beating the crap out of each other. And
Speaker 1: I think everyone should go watch it because it us
Speaker 1: shout out to Mathra, here you go. You got just
Speaker 1: like Godzilla making a swim move over King Kong and
Speaker 1: getting back to the putting pressure on the quarterback. I
Speaker 1: think it's something that we need to look at. Maybe
Speaker 1: his vertical and three cone are a little more important
Speaker 1: than what we thought previously. Whenever that battle comes around,
Speaker 1: Zilla Godzillas gained a lot of agility since I saw
Speaker 1: it twenty years ago. It's good point point c G.
Speaker 1: I'll do that. Yes, yeah, big hips and think about Godzilla.
Speaker 1: You know, get those short arms. Yeah, I didn't have
Speaker 1: to reach we got cong said. That's why I started
Speaker 1: talking about King Kai. I know he gave it. He
Speaker 1: gave it a nice little way for me to get
Speaker 1: out of here, all right. Special thanks to Chris Beam
Speaker 1: in the bag for Jeff kavanaf, Bucky Brooks, Kevin K. T. Turner.
Speaker 1: Will see you on Thursday. Just four more draft shows
Speaker 1: till the Draft. Will see you next time. This has
Speaker 1: been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Football Club.