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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: I'll Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio, and it

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Speaker 1: is time for another edition of Female First, which means

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Speaker 1: we are once again joined by the fabulous, the fantastic Eves.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Eves.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Hey y'all.

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Speaker 2: Hey. So, in our continued check in on all of

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Speaker 2: the things that you do, the travels that you go on,

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Speaker 2: you do you have any standouts? How are you? How's

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Speaker 2: it been?

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Speaker 3: Things have been pretty good. I feel like it was

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Speaker 3: one of those situations where yes, I was traveling, but

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Speaker 3: I was doing it very quickly, quickly and slowly at

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Speaker 3: the same time. So I was like moving from one

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Speaker 3: place to the other, and then when I would get

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Speaker 3: to a place, I would kind of be, you know,

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Speaker 3: just chill sometime. But I think one of my standouts

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Speaker 3: that I really enjoyed and also made time to return

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Speaker 3: to was West Virginia, which I don't know if we

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Speaker 3: talked about West Virginia last time we were on the

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Speaker 3: I was on the show.

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Speaker 2: He did about the history.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and so I went back. Actually, so since

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Speaker 3: the last time we spoke, I went there first time,

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Speaker 3: but then I went back to check out some more

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Speaker 3: of the Black history that was there, and when I

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Speaker 3: went back, it was snowing, so I also got to

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Speaker 3: see there was like a stark contrast between the fall

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Speaker 3: that was there the first time I talked to you

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Speaker 3: all about it. So I guess that's kind of an

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Speaker 3: update for everyone since I mentioned it last time, and

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Speaker 3: then when I came back, it was just snowy all

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Speaker 3: the leaves have fallen. Completely different landscape looking at the

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Speaker 3: mountains and the gorge from there. But I also got

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Speaker 3: a chance to visit some more of the Black historical

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Speaker 3: sites that were there in the New River Gorge area,

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Speaker 3: and I really enjoyed that. So before I had went

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Speaker 3: to an old missionary Baptist church, and I went to

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Speaker 3: a school, and before I went to the first Black

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Speaker 3: four ahe camp that was in West Virginia. So it

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Speaker 3: was the first Black forage camp in the entire United States.

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Speaker 3: And now it's owned by the local Cultural Department, but

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Speaker 3: it was a new deal project essentially when it was created.

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Speaker 3: And many other stops along the way that I went to,

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Speaker 3: including a memorial site that was for a very large

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Speaker 3: industrial accident that happened that involved a lot of the

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Speaker 3: Black mineworkers because most of the workers who were implicated

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Speaker 3: in that and that disaster were black, and so there

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Speaker 3: is a memorial up to them because at the time,

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Speaker 3: the mineworkers who were there in West Virginia, it was

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Speaker 3: because they were creating a tunnel through a mountain. They

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Speaker 3: were trying to divert some water and there was a

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Speaker 3: big accident there. So there was a memorial where some

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Speaker 3: of the graves had been replaced, dug up and turt

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Speaker 3: disinterred and placed into this new memorial to honor the

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Speaker 3: lives of the people who who were there. So it's

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Speaker 3: lots of a range of different things. Something celebratory, some

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Speaker 3: things about leisure, you know, like the four Ah camp was,

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Speaker 3: and learning and education and some things that were very

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Speaker 3: unfortunate that happened in the area. As history does it,

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Speaker 3: it ranges the gamut. So that was definitely a standout

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Speaker 3: for me, but I went many other places as well

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Speaker 3: and it was pretty enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and related to this episode and preserving history, I

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Speaker 2: wanted to ask you, are you a big acus You've

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Speaker 2: been on these journeys. I know you update Instagram sometimes

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Speaker 2: or social media sometimes. Do you take a lot of pics.

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Speaker 3: I do take a lot of pictures. Well, okay, so

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Speaker 3: before I didn't, so I've been pretty bad at taking pictures.

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Speaker 3: But because my husband has been with me and he

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Speaker 3: does videography and photography, he's been taking a lot of pictures,

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Speaker 3: and because we have a camera, I will often take

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Speaker 3: pictures and video of it too, and I have been

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Speaker 3: publishing some stuff on YouTube, and I have like a

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Speaker 3: very highly organized hard drive of the photos and videos

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Speaker 3: for every place that we have went to. Some of

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Speaker 3: those things, I was able to visit a lot of families,

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Speaker 3: so some of those are family photos, but a lot

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Speaker 3: of it is of the landscapes and of us. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to be a lot better at taking pictures of myself,

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Speaker 3: even though I'm still not great at it. And we

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Speaker 3: also have like a good bit of drone footage, oh

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Speaker 3: from all of us locations. But oh, I saw the

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Speaker 3: most beautiful rainbow when I was in Maine. That excited me,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't see until I went back in looked

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Speaker 3: at the footage that it was a double rainbow. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I didn't even see this. I didn't see it with

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Speaker 3: my eyes there, but the camera picked it up so

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Speaker 3: much better. But it was one of those moments where

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Speaker 3: we were in the right place at the right time,

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Speaker 3: and I really I don't know if I should be

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Speaker 3: this excited about a rainbow, but it was just absolutely

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Speaker 3: stunning because it was the Golden Hour and one end

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Speaker 3: of the rainbow was on the horizon of the ocean

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Speaker 3: and the other end was like over this ideal like

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Speaker 3: you know, shoreline of the town homes and the condos

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Speaker 3: on the shore, and so it was like it popped

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Speaker 3: up right after we got It was freezing cold, like

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Speaker 3: it was probably like thirty in the thirties, and everybody

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Speaker 3: left the beach, and when the rainbow appeared right at

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Speaker 3: the right moment, everybody came back. It was like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, Oh my goodness, it's amazing. So yeah, that

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Speaker 3: was also a highlight for me that I'm really happy

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Speaker 3: that I have photos and videos of that's awesome. I

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Speaker 3: love that you were able to discover that.

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Speaker 4: I love the double reaction, like the reaction to the

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Speaker 4: double rainbow like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm talking about that meme.

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Speaker 4: It's legitimate, Like you get so excited.

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Speaker 3: As you should be. That's awesome that you heard to

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Speaker 3: catch up too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, that sounds amazing. Well, that is related

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Speaker 2: to the person we are talking about today, Eves, Can

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Speaker 2: you tell us who we're discussing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So today we're talking about Francis Benjamin Johnston. And

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Speaker 3: it is part of the reason I've brought her today

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Speaker 3: to talk about because I was looking for people who

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Speaker 3: were relevant to the travels that I had been on,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of my focus in the travels that

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Speaker 3: I've been on recently has been black history, as it

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Speaker 3: often is, but I was also interested in and in

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Speaker 3: the history of women, and I was specifically thinking about

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Speaker 3: caves because I, for whatever reason, went to a couple

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Speaker 3: of caves in the last month. Realized that I had

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Speaker 3: spent a decent amount of time in them, and I

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Speaker 3: had learned more about the black history of people in

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Speaker 3: the caves, the people who were acting as guides, who

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Speaker 3: were working in like Saltpeter minds in the caves, who

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Speaker 3: were enslaved, and later on there were people who weren't

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Speaker 3: enslaved who were guides in caves. So I was learning

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Speaker 3: all about the black history, but I was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: what's the history of women in these caves? And Francis

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Speaker 3: Benjamin Johnston is implicated in that history, although it's one

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Speaker 3: very small part, it's just what led me to wanting

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Speaker 3: to share her story today. And that history related to

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Speaker 3: caves is that she was the first woman to take

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Speaker 3: a series of photographs in Mammoth Cave, which is a

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Speaker 3: cave in National Park in Kentucky that I went to.

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Speaker 3: And she also in some of her not technically con

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Speaker 3: considered completely first book pioneering achievements of hers is that

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Speaker 3: she was one of the first American photographers to have

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Speaker 3: a successful long term career in photography, one of the

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Speaker 3: first women press photographers in the US, and she's one

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Speaker 3: of the first American photographers to specialize in architectural documentation.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, I just her history is related to

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Speaker 3: one Mammoth Cave in two, West Virginia, and that's I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, well, it's pretty it's relevant to things

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Speaker 3: that I'm thinking about right now. So it'd be really

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Speaker 3: nice to talk about her because she was born in

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Speaker 3: West Virginia, so I think that's a good place for

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Speaker 3: us to start her story. So she was born on

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Speaker 3: January fifteenth, eighteen sixty four, in Grafton, West Virginia, which

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Speaker 3: was a small town in the Appalachian Mountains and it

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Speaker 3: was a pretty important rail center during the Civil War,

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Speaker 3: which was ongoing when Francis was born. Her parents were

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Speaker 3: Francis Antoinette Benjamin and Anderson Donovan Johnson, and her maternal

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Speaker 3: grandmother lived in Rochester, New York, and that's where Francis

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Speaker 3: spent some time when she was younger. So by eighteen

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Speaker 3: seventy five she had moved with her family to Washington,

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Speaker 3: d C. Which was a place that was a big

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Speaker 3: part of her development in her career. So her father

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Speaker 3: worked for the US Treachery Department and her mother worked

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Speaker 3: as a journalist and wrote for newspapers in DC and Baltimore,

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Speaker 3: and clearly that had a big impact on the career

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Speaker 3: trajectory that she chose for herself. So in eighteen eighty

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Speaker 3: three she ended up graduating from the Notre Dame of

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Speaker 3: Maryland Collegiate Institute for Young Ladies. That's a mouthful, but

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Speaker 3: it was a school for girls in Maryland, and then

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Speaker 3: from eighteen eighty three to eighteen eighty five she studied

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Speaker 3: drawing and painting at the Academy. Julian and her teacher's

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Speaker 3: their favorite traditional subject matter, and so did she even

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Speaker 3: though Impressionism was pretty big at the time, but she

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Speaker 3: was like, this what I'm rocking with. I'm doing traditional.

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Speaker 3: My teacher's are too. This is what I'm interested in.

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Speaker 3: And when she got back to Washington, she went heavy

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Speaker 3: into the art scene. She joined the Art Students League,

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Speaker 3: which was a membership org for artists. But it was

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Speaker 3: around this time that she realized, like, I am going

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Speaker 3: down this drawing and painting route, but I'm not really

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Speaker 3: called to do that. She was feeling like journalism and

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Speaker 3: photography were more the lanes that she wanted to be in.

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Speaker 3: So at first in the mid eighteen eighties, she was

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Speaker 3: writing articles and illustrating them with pen and ink drawings.

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Speaker 3: But then this is clearly a very foundational moment for her,

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Speaker 3: when she got a camera. It was when family friend

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Speaker 3: George Eastman sent her an early role film Eastman Kodak camera,

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Speaker 3: and she started using photography to accompany her articles. And

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Speaker 3: she also started studying photography with Thomas Smelly at the

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Speaker 3: Smithsonian Institution, and that was the beginning of a lifelong

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Speaker 3: friendship that the two of them had. So her first

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Speaker 3: major photo illustrated article, that was what she was doing

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Speaker 3: at the time. These photo illustrated articles, even though to

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Speaker 3: her viewpoint was kind of her photos are the things

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Speaker 3: that are telling the story, and her viewpoint was that

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Speaker 3: the photos were creating the narrative and those were the

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Speaker 3: most prominent elements that she was concerned about in the

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Speaker 3: storytelling that she was doing. So her first major photo

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Speaker 3: illustrated article was in two parts in Demorris Family Magazine

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Speaker 3: in eighteen eighty nine, and that was about money production

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Speaker 3: in the United States, and that article led her to

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Speaker 3: more publications in that magazine, and that included what I

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Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, which was that piece on Mammoth Cave. It

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Speaker 3: was Mammoth Cave by Flashlight. It was kind of a hit,

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Speaker 3: and she and her mother got there to Mammoth Cave

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Speaker 3: in October of eighteen ninety one, and for a few weeks,

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Speaker 3: she and her mother and a cave god named Bill

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Speaker 3: Garvin went into the cave, and of course the darkness

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Speaker 3: was an artistic challenge for her and for the photographic

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Speaker 3: medium itself, and she was able to use techniques to

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Speaker 3: be able to take really lovely photos in the cave,

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Speaker 3: and so she ended up starting to exhibit her photograph.

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Speaker 3: She did so on her first show in eighteen ninety

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Speaker 3: one in DC, and I mean she has she pretty

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Speaker 3: much took off like it's a huge list of accomplishments

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Speaker 3: from here, lots of jobs that she took around the country.

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Speaker 3: So in eighteen ninety two to eighteen ninety three, for instance,

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Speaker 3: she was one of the official photographers for the World's

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Speaker 3: Columbian Exposition. And she also clearly was very good at

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Speaker 3: making connections and using those connections to get her more

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Speaker 3: freelancing contract work. And she formed a relationship with George

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Speaker 3: Grantham Bain, who was the founder of the Bay News service,

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Speaker 3: which provided photos and articles to newspapers around the country,

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Speaker 3: and this relationship that she had with him, it helped

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Speaker 3: her get many commissions, and he essentially acted as her

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Speaker 3: agent for several years. So all of this work she

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Speaker 3: was putting in, she's learning more about photography, learning more

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Speaker 3: technical skills, and also learning more of the trade. By

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Speaker 3: eighteen ninety five, she had opened her own commercial studio,

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Speaker 3: which was behind her parents' house in Washington, DC, And

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Speaker 3: at this point she was specializing in portraits. And as

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Speaker 3: we see in a lot of these first not without context.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times it's because you already have access

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Speaker 3: to certain resources and you're of a social status. That

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Speaker 3: was the case for her. She was in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 3: so she was already able to bump elbows and rubb

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Speaker 3: shoulders with lots of dignitaries and officials and VIPs basically,

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Speaker 3: and she also had the gumption to you know, start

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Speaker 3: her own business and use her skills in photography to

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Speaker 3: help that business. She took portraits of influential people like

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Speaker 3: President Eddie Roosevelt, Booker T. Washington, and Susan B. Anthony,

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Speaker 3: lots of other you know, VIP names on the list.

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Speaker 3: And she was also which I think is really cool,

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Speaker 3: she was into uplifting other people's ability to do this.

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Speaker 3: So this is I really loved reading this article that

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Speaker 3: she wrote in eighteen ninety seven that was called what

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Speaker 3: a Woman Can Do with the Camera for Ladies Home

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Speaker 3: Journal and just also funny to me in the from

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Speaker 3: a historical perspective like biographical that this title that this

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Speaker 3: Lady's Home Journal article was given has clearly it also

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Speaker 3: really well defies her own legacy. So a lot of

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Speaker 3: people use that title, you know, in pieces about her

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Speaker 3: about her because it's like, look, look what francis Benjamin

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Speaker 3: Johnston could do with the camera. Because she wrote this

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Speaker 3: in eighteen ninety seven, I mean, and she lived for

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Speaker 3: many decades after that, so she did a lot with

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Speaker 3: the camera after that. That was pioneering work and very

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Speaker 3: important work. And if you read the article, it's very

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Speaker 3: to the point, like it's it's pretty extensive about it's

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Speaker 3: I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's

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Speaker 3: not very surface level. It's not just like every woman

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Speaker 3: can do this, and you know, you should do this

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Speaker 3: if you can. It's not one of those things that

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Speaker 3: it made it seem like what she was doing was

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Speaker 3: out of reach. She seemed like she was really trying

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Speaker 3: to make it accessible to people, which I think is

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Speaker 3: pretty cool for a time when photography was a medium

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Speaker 3: that was really just taking off in the first place,

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Speaker 3: and obviously required a lot of equipment, larger equipment than

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Speaker 3: it is now, and oftentimes it was where running a

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Speaker 3: business of photography was viable. It was far fewer places

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Speaker 3: at the time. But she wrote this article where she

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Speaker 3: talked about how much it costs. For instance, she said

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Speaker 3: it cost a thousand to two thousand dollars to equip

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Speaker 3: a photo studio if you want to do a photo studio.

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Speaker 3: She talked specifically about working in portraiture and how that

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Speaker 3: could make you money. She talked about how in this

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Speaker 3: article about how photography it would be better over things

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Speaker 3: like bookkeeping and other jobs that women were doing at

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Speaker 3: the time. So, for instance, she says in the article,

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Speaker 3: the woman who makes photography profitable must have as to

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Speaker 3: personal qualities, good common sense, a limited patience to carry

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Speaker 3: her through endless failures, equally unlimited tact, good taste, a

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Speaker 3: quick eye, a talent for detail, and a genius for

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Speaker 3: hard work. In addition, she needs training, experience, some capital,

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Speaker 3: and a field to exploit. This may seem at first

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Speaker 3: glance an appalling list, but it's incomplete rather than exaggerated.

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Speaker 3: And so she goes on after that. But I'll end

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Speaker 3: the quote there, which it's funny to me because I

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Speaker 3: was thinking the same thing. I was like, appalling. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure, but it seems like a very high standard

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Speaker 3: to live up to, cause you told me I have

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Speaker 3: to have good taste, and I don't even know how

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Speaker 3: I'm supposed to judge good taste, because good tastes is subjective.

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Speaker 3: If you know, you know, if you know, Anne, I

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Speaker 3: have to learn this new medium, you know, And later

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Speaker 3: on in the article she points out how it's really

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Speaker 3: good to be an apprentice to somebody, to be able

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Speaker 3: to shadow somebody and learn from somebody to directly, because

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Speaker 3: there are schools, but the schools are few, and it

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Speaker 3: was kind of a she was kind of throwing a

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Speaker 3: little bit of shade in the article because she said that, yeah,

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Speaker 3: those good schools, they are few, they're not that many

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Speaker 3: of them, and they're really, you know, just kind of

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Speaker 3: about getting an amateur photographer a little bit of money.

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Speaker 3: They're not really about, you know, teaching the craft and

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Speaker 3: teaching the actual art of business and creating a business

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Speaker 3: in photography, which I think is a student and very

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Speaker 3: real of her to say, because she was very business focused.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's clear too in a lot of

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Speaker 3: the articles about her when you read about her, because

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Speaker 3: it's this accomplishment after this accomplishment, after this one. Reading

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Speaker 3: like this long scroll of her accomplishments, and her like

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Speaker 3: personal character is it falls. It takes a back seat

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Speaker 3: to all of the things that she did. All of

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Speaker 3: her her being took a back seat to all of

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Speaker 3: her doing in and some of these snippets are very

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Speaker 3: these highlights of her life. But if anybody, the article

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Speaker 3: is online for everybody to read, and I can give

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Speaker 3: y'all the link to it as well. But it's pretty

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Speaker 3: fascinating to read someone who was so young in her

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Speaker 3: business and craft still but was like, y'all can go

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Speaker 3: ahead and get started, and I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 3: how to do it, which I think is very helpful.

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Speaker 3: So in her own profession she was developing to herself

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Speaker 3: and in the eighteen nineties and early nineteen hundred she

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Speaker 3: took a lot of freelance jobs around the country. Social

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Speaker 3: status and connections helped. Once again, she was earning money

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Speaker 3: from portrait commissions of government officials and their families, but

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Speaker 3: she was doing other work in the field as well.

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Speaker 3: So in eighteen ninety nine and nineteen hundreds she took

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Speaker 3: photographs at the Hampston Institute in Virginia, which is an

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Speaker 3: HBCU and it's now called Hampston University. And in nineteen

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Speaker 3: oh one she took the last photograph of President McKinley.

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Speaker 3: It was shortly before his assassination at the Buffalo Exposition.

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Speaker 3: And she also continued with her work documenting black education.

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Speaker 3: She went to Tuskegee Institute in Alabama in nineteen oh

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Speaker 3: two and took photographs there, and a few years later

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Speaker 3: while she was in Europe, she visited the Loomi Years,

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Speaker 3: who people listening might know is associated with their work

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Speaker 3: in inventing and filmmaking and early photographic equipment, and Francis

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00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 3: was developing her skills in photography. She learned the new

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Speaker 3: color photography process that was called autochrome. So she'd getting

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Speaker 3: a lot of work, but seemingly is not completely fulfilling

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Speaker 3: to her because she was doing a lot of portraiture,

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Speaker 3: which was good for her at the time successful, but

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Speaker 3: it was getting too stressful and commercial for her, so

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Speaker 3: she decided to move to New York City where she

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Speaker 3: felt that she could have more control over her art

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Speaker 3: and too. At the time, New York City was becoming

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Speaker 3: a center of photography where there were other people. You could,

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Speaker 3: you know, throw a stone down the road where she

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Speaker 3: was at in New York City and it would hit

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Speaker 3: another photographics studio, so it's not like it was like

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Speaker 3: everybody was doing it. But she was in good company there,

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Speaker 3: even though she had some haters based on other people

356
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Speaker 3: saying that her work was kind of commercial, you know,

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Speaker 3: all those things, but she had she started to build

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Speaker 3: her business there. So she and a friend who was

359
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Speaker 3: also apparently a love interest for her, Maddie Edwards Hewitt,

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Speaker 3: they opened a photo studio on Fifth Avenue and she

361
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 3: switched focused from portraiture and they worked on architectural and

362
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Speaker 3: garden photography projects. They were photographing rich folks, country estates,

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Speaker 3: and through this work she learned a lot about horticulture

364
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Speaker 3: and gardens. So her work took a turn, and she

365
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Speaker 3: was not afraid to pivot. Clearly, she was still using

366
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Speaker 3: her same skills, but she was. Her fondness was growing

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Speaker 3: for horticulture and gardens, and she was reading books about it,

368
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Speaker 3: going to bookstores and learning more about it and giving

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Speaker 3: lectures about it. And so people were starting to associate

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Speaker 3: her with this architectural and estate work that she was doing.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, hey, the clientele had the money, clearly,

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Speaker 3: because these are people with huge homes and they want

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Speaker 3: them to be photographed. So good field for her to

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Speaker 3: be in at the time. It was a good market

375
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Speaker 3: for her to capitalize on. Do y'all like architectural photography.

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Speaker 3: Do y'all ever look at any books that have those

377
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 3: kind of photographs in them.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's fascinating, especially when you look at the

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Speaker 4: history and the depth of a design and what they

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Speaker 4: went through and how they kind of aged and what

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Speaker 4: technology has done in those designs.

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Speaker 3: M yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: I love like I love looking at you know, something

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Speaker 2: that you might just pass by, but when you take

385
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Speaker 2: time to really appreciate it, Oh, what this is? I

386
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Speaker 2: didn't notice this, and I didn't notice this. And I'm

387
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Speaker 2: also a huge nerd in that they during the Olympics.

388
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Speaker 2: If people remember, there was an Assassin's Creed like character

389
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Speaker 2: and part of the reason is because the video the

390
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: video game company had scanned the cathedral to us in

391
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Speaker 2: the game, and when it burned down, they used the

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Speaker 2: video game scans to rebuild it.

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Speaker 3: Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah.

394
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Speaker 2: But so like when you look at pictures like architectural pictures,

395
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Speaker 2: if something happens to that building or they want to

396
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: recreate it, they are really important in that way. So

397
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Speaker 2: I find that that interesting.

398
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Speaker 3: Okay, So that is a great segue into this next

399
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 3: part of her story, because it wasn't just like, oh,

400
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Speaker 3: I'm these are beautiful homes and I'm really admiring of

401
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: the people who had built these big businesses, and they

402
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: were business people in the United States and had a

403
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 3: states in Europe, and that she could photograph. It was

404
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 3: just like she was necessarily putting these people on the pedestal,

405
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: and she was that into the wealth and the ostentatious

406
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: display of wealth while she was into it. So her

407
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 3: work she started this architectural photography, and then in nineteen

408
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 3: twenty six she spent time in the Southeast United States

409
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 3: and became interested in colonial architecture in the South, so

410
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Speaker 3: very different from these big estates that she was photographing

411
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: in Europe and elsewhere. And she did this photographic survey

412
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 3: of the historic architecture in Fredericksburg, Virginia, and this kickstarted

413
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: a world of other historic architectural surveys and photography in

414
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Speaker 3: the Southeast. So when the stock market crashed in nineteen

415
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: twenty nine, it wasn't so cool to like photographs and

416
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: show off these huge estates, and she started doing this

417
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: really comprehensive, very comprehensive photographic survey of historic buildings in Virginia.

418
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Speaker 3: She would do research in the area, she would look

419
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: at these deeds and platts, she would talk to local

420
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 3: historians in the area. She would, you know, do all

421
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 3: this coming through of documents and people who were actually

422
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 3: on the ground and knew things about the local spaces

423
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: and architecture in Virginia. But then she went on to

424
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: do more surveys in Florida and North Carolina, and she

425
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 3: got assistance from Carnegie. So this work that she did

426
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: ended up being the Carnegie Survey of the Architecture of

427
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 3: the South. And while she was going to all these places,

428
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: she had a in the nineteen thirties and forties, a

429
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 3: driver and assistant who was a black man named Huntley Ruff,

430
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 3: which is a great name, first of all, but he

431
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: drove her around to sites, and you know, he was

432
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: you know, therefore he's in some of the pictures. If

433
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: you go, anybody right now can go and look on

434
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: the Library of Congress's site and see a lot of

435
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: the pictures that she took, youd see Huntley Ruff in

436
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: some of her pictures. And later he was called out

437
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 3: to duty during World War Two, but he continue to

438
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: be in contact with her and have a relationship with

439
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: her throughout the rest of her life. And she also

440
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: exhibited her survey photographs so she would kind of do

441
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: this survey of a place and then she would exhibit

442
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: her photographs, and she exhibited her photographs in New Orleans

443
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty eight, and she was really charmed by

444
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: the city for obvious reasons. So by this point she

445
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: had got into architecture. And of course the architecture in

446
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 3: New Orleans is very distinct and there's a lot of

447
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: intense and very intricate history that goes into it. But

448
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 3: speaking of what you were talking about, any how, something

449
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 3: like photographing or capturing the essence and the image of

450
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: historic architecture can help preserve that place. That's very relevant

451
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: to the work that Francis Benjamin Johnston was doing because

452
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: it kind of helped garner general support for historic preservation.

453
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 3: But it said that some of the photographs she took

454
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: help really underscore how important it was to preserve these

455
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 3: historic buildings in places like New Orleans. So it's kind

456
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: of estimated that the work that she did, the photographs

457
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: she took in the surveys that she did help support

458
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: the actual legislative work that was happening to put zoning

459
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: ordinances and things like that in place and municipalities to

460
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: help protect these buildings. So her work definitely had an

461
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: impact in that regard, and she was clearly very dedicated

462
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 3: to it. These surveys that she did took place over

463
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: several years, and she did them in different places and

464
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: was very motivated by the work that she was doing

465
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: and the change that I was creating. But she wasn't

466
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: that political though, so of course things like zoning ordinances

467
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: and preserving historic architecture. She was doing work in for

468
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 3: Confederate architecture, colonial architecture, you know, so the work that

469
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: she was doing was very related to politics, but she

470
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 3: didn't really she didn't like put out any statements talking

471
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: about her politics and how they affected the work that

472
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 3: she was doing and how she thought about it, like

473
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: it was kind of a in her situation, seemed like

474
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: it was this work speaks for itself, and I'm doing

475
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: this work of helping historic preservation. But she was also

476
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: very concerned with the technical aspects of course of the

477
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: work that she was doing. So she said this in

478
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: a nineteen thirty eight article. She said, I won't make

479
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: a picture unless the moon is right, to say nothing

480
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: of the sun light in shadow. Most of the time,

481
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 3: I have to be excruciatingly patient, waiting for the light

482
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 3: to get precisely right. Sometimes I have a tree cut down,

483
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: a stunt removed, or a platform erected to get the

484
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 3: proper perspective. I've shot pictures from on top of box

485
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: cars and loaded trucks. If I'm in a city street,

486
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: I often call the police to hold up our detoured

487
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: traffic while I photograph a place. When I photograph an interior,

488
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: I usually shoe the family out, locked the door, and

489
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: buckled down to business. So that is just a glimpse

490
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 3: of her character. When she was on a set in

491
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: a location about to set up for the shots that

492
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: she was taking, she was very serious about the craft

493
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: as well, so she In nineteen forty five, she bought

494
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: a house on Bourbon Street in New Orleans and she

495
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: renovated it, and that year she also came an honorary

496
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 3: member of the American Institute of Architects. Even though she

497
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: herself wasn't an architect. They wanted to highlight her. They

498
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: wanted to recognize her for the work that she did

499
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: in recording architecture in the US. And she died on

500
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 3: May sixteenth, nineteen fifty two, at age eighty eight, and

501
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: in her will, she gave her car to Huntley Roff

502
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: and she was buried in Rock Creek Park Cemetery in DC.

503
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: And like I mentioned earlier, you can see a lot

504
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: of her work in the Library of Congress's collections. They're

505
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 3: at the Francis Benjamin Johnson papers are housed there, but

506
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: you can also go online and look through look through

507
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: the collection and see some of the photos and her

508
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: correspondents and get to see all of the work that

509
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: she did in portraiture and architecture because her her works

510
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 3: are also in collection of Architecture in the Brew of Congress,

511
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: so you can see see some of her work in

512
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: both of those places.

513
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I recommend looking it up. She really did.

514
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: She went all over and tried all kinds of things,

515
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: and she really was business driven and motivated, but also

516
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: very serious about the craft.

517
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 3: And I love learning about.

518
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,719
Speaker 2: I like the like technical aspects of how photography and

519
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: film have changed, and I like thinking about how that

520
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: impacts historical preservation and who's who's taking the photo, because

521
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: we still talk about that today with who's who's behind

522
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: the camera on this film, or who's who's doing who's

523
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: choosing where the lens goes? So it's a really really

524
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: interesting story and uh, honestly, there's a lot written about

525
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: our listeners. You should go should go look it up. Yeah,

526
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: very very interesting.

527
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like it's one of those situations where it's

528
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 3: like we we get to see so much of her work.

529
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 3: It was so well documented, like she was doing the

530
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: documenting at the time, and it's so well documented in

531
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: archives now and I think because of all the work

532
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: that historians and scholars have done and trying to, you know,

533
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: talk about her legacy, that it's made it pretty accessible

534
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: to learn a lot more about her.

535
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, thank you so much as always, Eves

536
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: for bringing this history to us. You really appreciate it.

537
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 3: You're welcome.

538
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: Where can the good listeners mind you?

539
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: You can find me online at Evesjeffcoat dot com. That's

540
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: probably the first place you want to go. So that's

541
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: spelt why V E S J E F F co

542
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: A T dot com and that'll take you to all

543
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 3: the other places. So you can go to my contact

544
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: page and simmy an email from there. You can also

545
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: sign up for my newsletter there, and you can also

546
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: go to my Instagram. I'm at not apologizing on Instagram.

547
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 3: I'm also on many many other episodes of Stuff Mom

548
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: Never Told You for this female first series in which

549
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 3: we talk about women in history who had pioneering achievements

550
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: and yeah, that's that's where you find me. Yes, and

551
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 3: go do that.

552
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: If you haven't already listeners, we'll be checking back in

553
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: uh with all the stuff that you're doing. Use in

554
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: the meantime listeners. If you'd like to contact us, you can.

555
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at moll Stuff Podcasts,

556
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You.

557
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: We're also on YouTube. We have a tea public store,

558
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: and we have a book you can get where you

559
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,

560
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: our executive producer Maya and Arcturder Joey, thank you, and

561
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You

562
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

563
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can check out the Heart Radio

564
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: Apple podcast or reve you listen to baby shows y