1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young Texas mom, 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Nicki Winder missing this after her truck is found on 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: fire tonight. Where is Nicki Winder? I'm Nancy Grace. This 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: with us. 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: The Cole Winder, a mother from Brazos, Texas, is reported 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: missing after leaving her caregiving job abruptly tonight. 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: The search is on for a gorgeous young Texas mom, 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: her truck found on fire. Straight out to Dave Matt 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, what can you tell me? Did 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: nobody know she was missing until her truck was spotted 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: on fire? 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: That's exactly it, Nancy. That was when they determined that 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 2: we don't know where Nicki is because the call came 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 2: in to fire and Deputies about a truck possibly on 16 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: fire when they arrived. When investigators arrived on the scene, 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: truck fully engulfed in flames, and of course they start 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: looking for the driver. Well, there's no driver nowhere around, 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: so they find out the car is registered. It's a 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five white Chevy pickup truck and that's the 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: truck there. They find out it is registered to call Winder, 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 2: and they immediately start tracking back and find out nobody 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 2: knows where she is. The last time she was seen 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: was an hour earlier, leaving her place of work. So 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,919 Speaker 2: we have a one hour window from her leaving work 26 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: and her truck on fire. 27 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Dave mac tell me the fundamentals, the who, what, where, wife, 28 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: win as much as you know them. We know she's 29 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: got two sons we know. Tell me about the location. 30 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: Where is she missing? 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: We know the Nikki left her work at three o'clock. 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: Her truck is found two miles away one hour later 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: on fire. Now, those are the basics of what we know. 34 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: Because the information Nancy is very, very limited. We only 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: have a couple of pictures, one of the truck that 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: you can see. She was very proud of this brand 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: new twenty twenty five Chebby pickup truck. So for the 38 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: enforcement be able to find this vehicle on fire is shocking. 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: Nicole Nicki Winder, a young mom is missing out of Brian, Texas, 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,679 Speaker 1: the county seat of Brazos County that is in the 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: heart of the Texas Brazos Valley. Now list census small 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: town eighty three thousand people. Now it's right there on 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: the border of College Station. That's another city in Texas. 44 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: Dave mac what more can you tell me? 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: Talking about a road called FM nine seven four sands 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: for Farm Road, it's just north of Highway twenty one. 47 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: This is in as you mentioned, Brian, Texas, which is 48 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: in Brazos County, a very rural area where there's not 49 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: a lot going on in the area where she went missing. 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: In that two miles from the place of work to 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: where her truck was found, it's just wild rural area, 52 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: not a lot of building. 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: Joining us an all star panel to make sense of 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: what we're learning tonight, I want to go straight out 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: to Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security, leading a 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: team of investigators and finding missing people around the world, 57 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: former Marine Iraqi warvel. It's a lot different fits when 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: you are looking in a very remote area. For instance, 59 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: with Nancy Guthrie, we are looking out in the desert, 60 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: huge swaths of land. Haven't made it to Mexico yet 61 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: still looking there. In Arizona, as opposed to in Manhattan, 62 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: there are traffic lights with traffic cams everywhere. It's very 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: concentrated with a lot of video surveillance a lot of witnesses. 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: It's a whole nother ballgame. When you're in a rural 65 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: area like Brian, Texas, how do you even start? Brian? 66 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, And it's important to understand and that where 67 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: Nicki was last seen and where her vehicle was loads 68 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: a couple of miles north of any real population. So 69 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 3: you are you're spot on. This is a very very 70 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 3: remote rural area of farmland, country roads. 71 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: And what does this tell me? 72 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: Within a couple of miles of where Nicki was last 73 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: seen and within sixty minutes her vehicle was found burning, Okay, 74 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 3: So that tells us that this crime took place in 75 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: hase this person either found her in a target she 76 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: was a target of opportunity, or the person knew Nicki's 77 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: travel path where she would be that when you said. 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: Traffic pattern, Brian, it reminds me very much of another 79 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: young mother, Kiara Hudson. She had taken out restraining order 80 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: after restraining order after restraining order against her husband and 81 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: ex husband, and she even presented video to judge off 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: her husband beating her and dragging her around by her hair. 83 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: As you can see, Brian, the attacks were brutal, notwithstanding 84 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: a judge, in his wisdom let her ex out. He 85 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: knew her traffic pattern, just like you're saying, Brian is Gibbons. 86 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: She took her children to school in the morning and 87 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: her SUV. She was so afraid, Brian, she had taken 88 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: to wearing a bulletproof vest. When her car came to 89 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: a stop with the children in the car, Brian he 90 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: comes up with a gun and shoots her in the 91 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: head to circumvent her body arm. He knew her traffic pattern. 92 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: He knew exactly where she was going and where she 93 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: would be and at what time, down to the minute 94 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: dropping off their children. Is that what you mean by 95 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: knowing her traffic pattern? 96 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. 97 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: So you know, we have to understand that in this 98 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 3: extra dremely rural area, there's only going to be so 99 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: many people who live there or frequent that area who 100 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: would also have the chance to encounter Nicki in her travels. 101 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 3: So that limits the size and scope of the investigation 102 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 3: right away. And that's certainly one front that investigators will 103 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: be looking at. Who was there, who knew she was there, 104 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: who's there every day. The second group is certainly a 105 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: bigger group that could potentially have known about Nicky's pattern 106 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 3: of life where she goes to work when she's going 107 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: to be there, and that this opportunity was geographic in nature, 108 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: given that you know, there's not many prying eyes, not 109 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: many people walking around by standards. 110 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: We're saying shots that we're showing now relating back to 111 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: Kira Hud started by estranged husband Adam Benefield in front 112 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: of her three children. He had been released less than 113 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: twenty four hours before on an assault that occurred inside 114 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: their home. This is the assault. I'm showing you the video. 115 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: He walked free on that and even with a bullet 116 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: proof vest, she could not escape. Straight out to Karen 117 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: Stark joining us, renowned forensic psychologist, TV radio trauma expert 118 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: and consultant. You can find her at Karenstark dot com. 119 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: And that's Karen with to see Karen, thank you for 120 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: joining us tonight. I My mind leaps immediately to domestic 121 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: violence because we're not hearing anything about a rape, a 122 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: sex assault, a theft. It's not even a carjacking because 123 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: her truck wasn't taken. It was set on fire seemingly 124 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: as if someone wanted to get rid of some sort 125 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: of evidence. But that said, it just screams domestic violence. 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 5: That's a very strong post. It does seem like even 127 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 5: though it took an hour, they were able to set 128 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 5: fire to that truck. And this is because this is 129 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 5: there's a good chance they knew that nobody would be there, 130 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 5: that no one would be able to identify what was happening. 131 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 5: And as your previous guest said, someone seemed to be 132 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 5: aware because there she was and she was attacked that quickly, 133 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 5: So perhaps there was was looking to get revenge. 134 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: Joining us now, Dave Moyer, you know him well. K 135 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: nine tracker master trainer, K nine tracker program manager for 136 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: military contracts, former Navy bomb disposal master technician. It goes 137 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: on and on and on with San Bernardina Sheriff's department, Dave, 138 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: this could go so many different ways, and I'm very 139 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: curious why no one seems to be covering her case 140 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: or demanding her return. That really intrigues me. So when 141 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: you looked at this case, first, of Lush, what was 142 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: your thought. 143 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 4: My initial impression on this was that there was some 144 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 4: planning and some logistical planning that went into her disappearance here. 145 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 4: Whether or not this is a plan on her part 146 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 4: to disappear and start a new life, or whether or 147 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 4: not this is somebody that she do well. 148 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: Did you just say, whether she disappeared to start a 149 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: new life. 150 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: Is that? 151 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: Is that what you just said? 152 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am. It's always a possibility that when you see 153 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: something with so little evidence to go on, that it 154 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 4: may be somebody trying to disappear from society in general. 155 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 4: I mean again, it is a possibility. It doesn't sound 156 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 4: very likely in this case. 157 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: Put in my place, Dave Moyer, Davey, she wanted to disappear, 158 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: so she leaves her children and sets her truck on fire. 159 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Gray. You know, another time I 160 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: heard she's off to start a new life. I don't 161 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: know if the name Drew Peterson rings a bell to you. 162 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: Drew Peterson, a former cop, had one dead wife that 163 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: drowned in a bone dry bathtub. Then his fourth wife, 164 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: Stacy Peterson, goes missing, and that's exactly what he told police. 165 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: He told police she probably left with her new boyfriend. 166 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: What new boyfriend? She left all of her clothes, her vehicle, 167 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: everything behind. So how did that work? I just want 168 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: to explore with you, Dave Moyer, the possibility that this 169 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: mom left to start a new lot. 170 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 4: What the only thing that really makes that even the 171 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 4: remotest of possibilities is the utter lack of evidence at 172 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 4: this point for any foul play that may have occurred. Again, 173 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 4: we don't have access to all of the investigative investigation 174 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 4: that the local police have conducted, but it is something 175 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 4: to consider and rule out as the investigation is. 176 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: All right, Well with that, I agree with you. I 177 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: agree with you that it's something to consider and rule out. 178 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: But Fitzgibbons, while Moyer is right, you have to rule 179 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: out all possibilities otherwise you're going to have it thrown 180 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: in your face a trial. I don't see anything that 181 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: smacks of a voluntary abandoning of your home, all your 182 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: possessions and setting your truck on fire. 183 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: Well, that would be a pretty straightforward way hypothesis to 184 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 3: rule out. 185 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 4: Right. 186 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 3: We would check financial information things in her romantic life 187 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 3: if there were issues there, and investigators have been undoubtedly 188 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 3: done that, right. What we do know is that within 189 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: sixty minutes of Nikki being last seen at her place 190 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 3: of employment, her vehicle was found on fire. Right, So 191 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 3: that speaks to us that whatever went down went down 192 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: in that location for a reason, and quick, what. 193 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: Do you mean by that, Brian? What I'm speaking to 194 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: is the. 195 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: Motive behind this right that the perpetrator, if Nicky was 196 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: indeed taken, knew her location, chose that location and executed it. 197 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: Very guys, we are bringing you all the latest in 198 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: the search for a wonderful young mom out of Brian, 199 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: Texas who seemingly has vanished without a trace. Karen Stark 200 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: joining us renown TV radio trauma expert. I don't see it. 201 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: I don't see anything suggesting that this was volunt. 202 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 5: That doesn't make sense to me either, because I can't 203 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 5: imagine that she would take this brand new car put 204 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 5: it on fire, and she has children, so that seems implied. 205 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 5: What is most interesting is that somebody was able to 206 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 5: think this out enough to burn the car, and that 207 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 5: isn't someone who haphazardly just comes across certctly does whatever. 208 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Captures the search for missing mom Nicole Winder is entering 209 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: the third week her truck found on fire at an 210 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: oil pad. An oil pad off FM farm Road nine 211 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: to seventy four north of Highway twenty one. There are 212 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: crews out searching day to day. The Sheriff's office begging 213 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: for information. When sheriff's deputies and investigators identified the truck, 214 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: they realized only then that Winder had not been seen 215 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: or heard from for some time. What does that mean, 216 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: Dave Mac? Some time? She hadn't been seen or heard 217 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: from for some time. 218 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: And the truck was found two miles away from where 219 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: she was last seen, two miles sixty minutes, a very 220 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: very small window to take a look at. 221 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: What does that mean, Dave Mac? That her truck was 222 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: found on fire near an oil pad. 223 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: Actually sitting on an oil pad, which is an area 224 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: designed to capture oil petroleum type products to prevent them 225 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: from getting into the groundwater. It's just an area where 226 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: her vehicle was parked and it is specific for this, 227 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: for an oil pad, and trying to understand what the 228 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 2: oil pad is doing in that particular area and why 229 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: her car would be parked there. Was it taken there 230 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: to be burned or was she parked there? Don't know. 231 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if the perp thought that the oil pad 232 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: would somehow increase they make the fire burn faster, make 233 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: it burn more, get rid of the car more quickly 234 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: because of the oil being contributed to the fire. It 235 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: was also definitely ruled an arson today Moyer joining US 236 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: San Bernardino Years Department, How would you determine right off 237 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: the bat that this was an arsenal? 238 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 4: What you're looking for is any kind of incendiary devices, 239 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 4: any kind of initiation devices. Are the presence of any 240 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: accelerants or chemicals that would precipitate the fire. 241 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: You know, having prosecuted many arsons, Dave Moyer, You're absolutely correct. 242 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: This is what I learned investigating and prosecuting arsons. Very often, 243 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: when an accelerant is used, which is a very common 244 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: mo modus opera and die method of operation, you can 245 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: actually see with the naked eye. You don't need a 246 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: magnifying glass. You can see where the accelerant, let's just 247 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: go with gasoline was poor. You can see where the 248 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: fire started. The burning damage will be much much more 249 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: intense and extensive at the location where the fire started. 250 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: Think of a home, Think of a fire started in 251 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: a kitchen. The damage done they as opposed to one 252 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: of the back bedrooms, will be much more intense because 253 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: that is where the fire originated. For example, sometimes let's 254 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: just go with the Molotov cocktail. You will actually find 255 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: evidence of the incendiary device, of the accelerant device, such 256 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: as a glass jar. Here. Since it's a vehicle, there's 257 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: any number of ways to set it on fire, but 258 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: they knew at the get go it was ours. To 259 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: Karen Starr, I find it very difficult to believe because 260 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: of statistics. It's very rare that a female on her own, 261 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: without any urging, without a co conspirator, starts an arson 262 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: fire of a very rare. That's a man thing, without. 263 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 5: A doubt, that's a man thing. And I think we're 264 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 5: all aware of that because women are not that aggressive. 265 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 5: It's not the kind of thing that a woman would do. 266 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 5: They're much more passed. And I can't even begin to imagine, 267 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 5: can you that somebody would want to set their own 268 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 5: car on fire when they're so proud of this new car, 269 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 5: this new truck, and it seems improvable to me. I 270 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 5: can't see that at all. 271 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: Another case that's coming to mind, Brian, if it's Gibbons 272 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: and you and I worked on this one together, is 273 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: of Niki Chang, another young mom that seemingly vanished off 274 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: the face of the earth. Suesspeicially was heightened when a 275 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: fire erupted at her estranged husband's home. Was he trying 276 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: to get rid of evidence? And it all goes back 277 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: to Niki Chang. Truck or truck was full of evidence, 278 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: including biological evidence that was traced back to Niki Chang. 279 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: You know, there's some kind of a connection, Karen Stark, 280 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: between a person in their vehicle. So often we see 281 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: women snatched out of their car and that car bears evidence. 282 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: It can be blood, it can be some other type 283 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: of DNA, and see the car set on fire to 284 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: get rid of the evids. And I'm wondering if that's 285 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: not what happened in the case of Nikki Winder. 286 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 5: Sounds like that's what happened there, Nancy. Well, I can 287 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 5: see that because they often find like pieces of carterial 288 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 5: that can trace back to whoever committed her crime. And 289 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 5: so that was very thought out to actually take that 290 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 5: truck and put it on fire because they didn't want there, 291 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 5: They didn't want anybody to be able to trace it 292 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 5: to whoever did this. 293 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 1: Say, Matt, what can you tell me about the search 294 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: so far for Nikki? 295 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: Nancy, The search has taken place in two very specific areas. 296 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: They started at her place of work at that residence. 297 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: They and they did the search around where her truck 298 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: was found on fire. These searches are large scale, involving 299 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: drones overhead, K nine teams on the ground, and they 300 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: had air support helicopters and air crew. The main search 301 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: area along FM nine to seven four, but they have 302 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: had to expand it as leads have come in. Multiple 303 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 2: agencies involved in this as well as the Texas Department 304 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 2: of Public Safety, Texas Search and Rescue, and the Search 305 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: Dog Network all involved in this very large search of 306 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: two different areas. 307 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: So, Dave Moyer joining us, what do you make of 308 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: the use of canines this is your specialty. 309 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am. This is definitely have as an application for 310 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 4: area search dogs, which are dogs that will cover broad 311 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 4: swatches of territory and searching for any live or deceased 312 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 4: humans in that area. And they were using their nose 313 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 4: in the environment to their advantage with the wind direction 314 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 4: and whatnot. Also here, I don't know what dogs were used, 315 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 4: but cadaver dogs are human or main dogs HRD for short, 316 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 4: would also have an application here because they don't just 317 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 4: find anybody that may be deceased in the area, they 318 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 4: also find any blood that might be left over for 319 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 4: an evidentiary standpoint, So it sounds like they really covered 320 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 4: their bases, getting all the canine teens out there and 321 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 4: covered those areas. But to touch on the subject somebody 322 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: else brought up earlier, if that vehicle is moved after 323 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 4: the crime and was simply there to be disposed of, 324 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 4: there wouldn't be any evidence there. So the dogs are 325 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 4: not going to be able to detect anything if it 326 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 4: doesn't exist in that area. 327 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: Day Moyer, what do you believe authorities should be doing 328 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: now to find it? 329 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 4: Sounds like they're still going down the path that I 330 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 4: would recommend with using their area dogs and their HRD 331 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 4: dogs and searching some large areas. As this continues to progress, 332 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 4: hopefully some more evidence will point them in the right 333 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 4: direction and get them into an area where the dogs 334 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 4: can do some kind of detection. Again, a dog is 335 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 4: it's not an area effect weapon. You've got to use 336 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 4: the dog in the area where it can be most effective. 337 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 4: So that's going to be the difficulty in this investigation 338 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 4: is finding where best to of boy. 339 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: Dogs crime stories with Nancy Grace Aaron Stark, you know, I'm. 340 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 5: Not sure if this is correct Nancy, but she left 341 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 5: her workplace in haste, that she couldn't wait to get 342 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 5: out of there for some reason. And if that's true, 343 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 5: that's really relevant because there was something that was happening 344 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 5: that made her leave that quickly and that she was 345 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 5: aware of, perhaps her friend Aaron Stark. 346 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: You're absolutely correct. Nicole Winder was last seen leaving work 347 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: over two weeks ago. It was after that her truck 348 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: was discovered on fire near an oil well, Brazos County. 349 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: Now what we're trying to find out is if anyone 350 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: has seen her, heard of her, gotten a text, gotten 351 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: a call, anything. We also know that local authorities are 352 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: asking residents along FM nine seventy four between Highway twenty 353 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: one and Macy Road to review security and game camera 354 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: footage from feb twenty five. February twenty five days they've 355 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: isolated that date or if you saw Nikki's white twenty 356 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: twenty five Chevy truck with black rims before it was 357 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: discovered set on fire. They are begging for this surveillance video. 358 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: I want to go back to you regarding Dave Matt 359 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: regarding an ATV. What can you tell me about that? 360 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 2: But Nancy at the pretty much same time that the 361 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 2: picture of Nicole's twenty twenty five Chevy truck was cut captured, 362 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: this ATV was also captured on video. Investigators have asked 363 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: the person driving this ATV to come forward, but they haven't. 364 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 2: Now all we know, Nancy is that this story is 365 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: big around Bran in Texas. And if that was you 366 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: driving an ATV that police wanted to talk to you, 367 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: if there's an innocent answer, you would call them and say, hey, 368 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: that was me. I was out riding around for fun. 369 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: I mean, who wouldn't come forward with that? Butte this 370 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: person has not come forward. They're still trying to investigators 371 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: still trying to identify the type of ATV and who. 372 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm very curious what the connection is to Nikki Winder. 373 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: In the continued search for a missing Brothers County mom, 374 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: Nicole Winder, the Sheriff's office begging for the public's help 375 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: to id an all terrain vehicle. It was captured on 376 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: camera near the area where her truck was found on fire. 377 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: That is significant, Brian Fitzgibbons. Video surveillance catches the ATV 378 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: near where her truck is set on fire. That's why 379 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: they want it. What is that ATV doing out by 380 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: on an old oil field and an oil pad at 381 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: the same time where Chuck's on fire. 382 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: So I don't think it's uncommon in a rural area 383 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 3: like this that people will have ATVs like this and 384 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: use them around their properties. So that ATV is probably located, 385 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 3: you know, garage close by this location. So the fact 386 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 3: that it's there is not surprising. The fact that it 387 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 3: was caught on camera at and around the time of 388 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: Nikki's disappearance is certainly makes this a potential witness in 389 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 3: the kitchen. 390 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: Dave Moyer, I could not disagree with Brian Fitzgibbons more 391 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: out in the middle of a rural and desolate area, 392 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: her truck is set on fire and then out of 393 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: the blue, same location. What a coinkydink is this ATV? 394 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: Why is it there between three and four pm February 395 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: twenty five, the day she goes missing near Jack Creek Road. 396 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: If it's not involved, why didn't they call in the 397 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: fire think about it? What about it? Moyer? 398 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 4: I would speculate to say that their option a this 399 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 4: is somehow related to the crime, and it was already 400 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 4: prestaged for our suspect to be able to leave the 401 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 4: area without leaving any ability for canines to track him 402 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 4: to another vehicle. And if that is the case, then 403 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 4: then yeah, obviously he's not going to come forward. B 404 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 4: I've lived in a lot of rural areas, and I 405 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 4: do agree with the prior gentleman that I mean, guys 406 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 4: use these out on their property all the time. It 407 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 4: could be a service vehicle for the oil pad itself, 408 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 4: or it could just be driven by an older gentleman 409 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 4: that doesn't watch television very much. Again, these are possibilities 410 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 4: to rule out, that is all I'm saying. 411 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: Did you actually say this could be what a service 412 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: vehicle for the oil industry? Did you say that, Yes. 413 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 4: Ma'am, it could be. I don't know what company services. 414 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: That vehicle would totally ignore. Hey, there's a fire and 415 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: an oil field. 416 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 4: Again, if they departed the area prior to the fire 417 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 4: or prior to someone being parked there, it sounds like 418 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 4: it was there at the same time. So absolutely I'd 419 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 4: be looking to this guy for a witness. And again 420 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 4: it leans back to the option a I brought up. 421 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 4: It could lend that there was a lot of logistics 422 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 4: that went into this crime. Having an escape vehicle already 423 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 4: pre staged at that location. 424 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: Okay, wait a minute. Wh wh whoa whoa, whoa whoa. 425 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: Nobody has said anything about an escape vehicle. You just 426 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: dropped that on me. An escape vehicle? What what? You're 427 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: not going back to Nikki Winder want to just start 428 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: a new life. You're not going there, are you? 429 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 4: Oh? No, no, ma'am. I'm simply exploring all the speculation 430 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 4: that could involve that we have so little information that 431 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 4: I'm looking at all the different possibilities if this. 432 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: Okay, tell me your theory about an escape vehicle. Hold on, 433 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: hold on, I gotta get comfortable for this. What about 434 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: an escape vehicle. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just 435 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: don't know where you're going. Explain to me that this 436 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: whole thing been played out and they needed that they 437 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,239 Speaker 1: drove the truck there, and they needed an ATV as 438 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: an escape vehicle. 439 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 4: I'm just guessing here, yes, ma'am, that vehicle would have 440 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 4: been pre staged, that the actual abduction may have taken 441 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 4: place in a different location. That was just the area 442 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 4: they planned on dumping the vehicle, so it was already 443 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 4: pre staged. They got there, they burned the vehicle and 444 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 4: then they had that ATV pre stage so they could 445 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: drive away from the scene. So that is an option 446 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 4: that is something the investigators are going to have to 447 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 4: rule out. 448 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm very very close to forgiving you, Dave Moyer, 449 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: for suggesting she just left work in a hurry, ran off, disappeared, 450 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: and set her truck on fire to start a new life. 451 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm this close to forgiving you for that, because that's 452 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: a pretty good theory. You just came up with one thing. 453 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: I do know, if it's given, her body wasn't in 454 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: that truck, because to get rid of a human body, 455 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: you have to have much higher a much higher degree 456 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: of heat than that truck would have created. I mean, 457 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: you need an incinerator grade fire to totally get rid 458 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: of a body. Hey, I don't know if you recall 459 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: the cable, Darling. Stephen Avery was wrongfully convicted of a 460 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: felony dis jail time. As soon as he got out, 461 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: he murdered someone, a young photographer, Theresa Hallback. The reason 462 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: I'm bringing him up is because he started a fire 463 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: pit and his the back of his auto salvage law 464 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: and according to his own relatives and friends, he stirred 465 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: that fire pit all night trying to get rid of 466 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: her body didn't work. There were tiny, tiny bone fragments, 467 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: her teeth were still there, Andy studs off the back 468 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: of her Daisy Fintas jeans were in that fire, and 469 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: that fire burned all night long. He suggested that he 470 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: was having a bondfire that said, her body is not 471 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: in this trust, so where is she or her boxy? 472 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this fire was clearly started as either a 473 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 3: a diversion or B to destroy evidence. You know, that's 474 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 3: what we typically see. And when suspects, our perpetrators are 475 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 3: destroying a body, human remains, they're not going to do 476 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 3: that publicly viewable from the side of the road. It's 477 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 3: going to take time, it's going to require an incinerator 478 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: that can generate temperatures high enough to destroy the body. 479 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 3: So you know, this was clearly in an effort to 480 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: destroy evidence. 481 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Dave mac what is the 482 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: tempt needed to destroy a human body entirely? 483 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: Fourteen hundred to eighteen hundred degrees. 484 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: In a recent report, the facts have been updated. It's 485 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: been determined she was last saying three p m. The 486 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: same day, the day that Karen Stark is describing hastily 487 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: leaving a residence where she was employed. Now, the Sheriff's 488 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: office spoke with family members and they were concerned about her, 489 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: saying an alert has been issued. It's a partner with 490 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: the Amber Alert. It's called a clear alert. So at 491 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: this juncture, Bryanfus Gibbons, what should local authorities be doing 492 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: to find Nicki? 493 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, first and foremost, getting the word out there to 494 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 3: find that personal as a potential witness is a good 495 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: first step. And investigators are going to be keeping all 496 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 3: of the information around their investigation pretty close to the 497 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 3: chest right now, because you know, we have to believe 498 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 3: that Nicki was targeted here if this is indeed a. 499 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: K okay to you. Dave Moyer, Canine tracker master trainer, 500 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: canine tracker program manager for military contracts, former Navy bomb 501 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: disposal master technician. I mean I could keep going on 502 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: and on with San Bernardino Sheriff's Department. Do you agree 503 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: or disagree with what Ms Gibbons just said? What else 504 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: can they be doing? Because I'm hearing nothing about this 505 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 1: investigation or her disappearance. Where is her family, where's her boyfriend? 506 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean, where's the sheriff why are we hearing nothing 507 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: about Nicole Winder? 508 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 4: And I'm going to back him up on his comment. 509 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 4: The investigators are clearly going to keep any information that 510 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 4: they have very close to the chest as they continue 511 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 4: to develop evidence. In this case, it does sound like 512 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 4: there was a significant amount of planning involved. That there's 513 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 4: no evidence in the scene of where the vehicle was recovered, 514 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 4: and just to touch on what the other lady had 515 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 4: said earlier, that it was burned up to destroy any evidence, 516 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 4: which would absolutely do that if there was any evidence 517 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 4: in there, and even the dogs aren't going to detect 518 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 4: it for the human to remains recovery dogs. If there 519 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 4: was an entire body there, that's a different story. And 520 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 4: they got to put the dogs in the locations as 521 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 4: they developed this information where they're going to be able 522 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 4: to detect any cent if she is still alive or 523 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 4: if she is deceased and she's been hidden somewhere. 524 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: There is a five thousand dollar reward for information leading 525 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: to the whereabouts of Nicole Winder five seven, about one 526 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty pounds, blonde hair, blue eyes. Again. Tips 527 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: can be submitted to crime Stoppers, who is offering a 528 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars reward in the search for Nicole Again. 529 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding her disappearance, 530 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: called the Brazos County Sheriffs nine seven nine three six 531 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: one forty nine hundred repeat nine seven nine three six 532 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: one forty nine hundred. We remember American hero Tech Sergeant 533 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: Ashley Pruitt, US Air Force, just thirty four, killed in 534 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: the line of duty in Iraq, leaving behind her husband 535 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: turned widow, Gregory, and two children without a mother. American 536 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: hero Tech Sergeant Ashley Pruitt. Thank you to our guests, 537 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: but especially to you for being with us tonight. Nancy 538 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: Grace signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. 539 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: And until then, good night friend,