WEBVTT - Ep 81: Bear Grease [Render] - Operation Redbud, Confronting Brent, and Elon Musk 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.080 My name is Clay and Nukeleman. This is a production 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.680 of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.200 where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.040 scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:35.320 HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.280 that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.440 It's been a long run since I've seen you guys 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.400 on the Bear Grease Render. It's true. Yeah, this is 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.239 a this is a monumental day for us. We have 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.880 the poor life of the city, the the the o 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.600 G original Gangster Bear Grease Render crew here today. I 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:04.679 have to my left my lovely wife, Missy Nukam. Welcome back, Misty. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.160 Good to be here supporting her first, like Parka, actually 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.319 Clay's first. Like when I'm really cold, I put on 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.319 Clay's really really big puffy one. So you guys, the 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.640 last time we saw I saw you was before I 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.200 went to Alaska in September, because you guys did a 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:24.200 render without me on when I was in Alaska. And 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:29.319 then the next time we did a render. Um I 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.959 believe no, no, we did multiple renders, and I've been 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.959 traveling and so you guys have been out of the 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.120 out of the picture for a little while. It's like 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.200 our vacation time. You remember when I asked Artie Stewart, 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.520 if poachers are jealous, I'm gonna do do. Does the 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:50.360 Render crew get jealous? No, not, Brent, Okay, I think 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:55.400 it's envious or envy. Jealousy is when you are concerned 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.920 that someone's gonna steal what you have, and envyous when 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.440 you want what some else has. It's a good distinction. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.200 That is a good distinction. Gary and I were just 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.640 talking about the Render you had with all the folks 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:13.440 from back home. That was a pretty good That was incredible. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:19.160 Feedback from the Render with Scott Andy, Steve Phillips, Randy Steppe, 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.679 coy House, Gary Nukem, Yeah, that was a good one. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.519 That was a really good I really enjoyed the one 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.920 with James Lawrence and yes, that was I would have 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.160 Gerald Brewer on this podcast every week. Feed drive up here. 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.840 I have so many good Jail Brewer stories. We need 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:37.600 to He got a head of hair like a movie star. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.520 So missies to my left and then Brent Reeves, Who's 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.680 who's I've got. We've got a little dialogue to have together, Brent, Welcome, 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:50.760 Thank you to your left, Josh Lambridge Pillmaker, Josh. Good 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.240 to be back to see you back in the saddle. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.880 Great to see you. To Josh's left, Isaac Neil, I'm 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.360 just happy to be invited to the user of the 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.600 Burgers podcast. Got a nice mustache right now too. My 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.840 wife said, uh, why don't you shave your beard and 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.560 do a mustache? And I said, yes, ma'am. Did she 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.400 mean a food mancho Okay, so I had not shaved 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.560 because she might not have that's a different thing. So 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.760 I haven't shaved in eleven years at all, like anything 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.079 at all. And so I shaved, and as I was going, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.480 I was thinking, just like, you know, the cop mustache, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.040 the dad mustache, just topp And then I started shaving. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.400 I was like, well, I don't know, so I just 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.400 kind of stopped. It wasn't even like the bottom of 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.600 the jaw foo man choose, just like That's when it 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.280 occurred to me. And I was like, well, i'll just 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.800 find out, Like she's getting home in an hour. And 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.960 so she came home and she's like, yeah, that's that's good, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.120 that's acceptable. Okay, Okay, we need to probably come back 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:52.000 to talking about facial hair and that. Yeah after, just 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.400 after you introduce our last person, because we need to 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.560 talk about your most recent mediator video. Okay, So, into 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.960 Isaac's left is Gary Believer Nukem, who your name came 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.760 up on the podcast this week unannounced. You heard that. 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:09.320 I wasn't sure if you had approved of that or not. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.680 That was okay, okay, I wouldn't pretty notorious with that 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.760 with my buddies over the years. Good, well, good as 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.279 I did it, I was like, I think it'd be 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.000 cool with this. So, uh, Brent Reeves, your career kind 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.200 of is that a forking road? I guess so is 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:34.599 your freedom? Uh? So, how how did you feel, um 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:40.200 now that your coversman busted? Has it been efficiently busted? Well? 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.920 I mean I've called you out NonStop on this podcast 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.840 for being an undercover agent or man. You can say anything. 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:48.719 You can say a rooster dip snuff, but if you 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.880 don't see a snuff can under his wing is still 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:57.080 ain't true. So am I right? I'm still piecing all 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.080 that together in my brain. I I feel like the 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.559 big difference is Clay is saying I saw the snuff 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:09.080 can yeah, yeah, I saw the snuff. Can well it 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:15.080 remains to be seen. Okay, okay, just keeping right if 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.719 that's what you're doing. I never stopped. Okay, that's in opinion. 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.680 I never started perfectly doing wrong. I mean, everybody makes 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.240 a mistake it right now? Then well wait, can I 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.360 just can I just say, did you check his hat 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:33.120 for a wire? Yeah? Maybe, Britain, I think you're the 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.119 one where in the wire take your shirt off? Yeah? 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.200 And that was that on this podcast. I don't know. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.360 I think it's the last one. I want to say 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.080 the full story of that one is on the next 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.840 because we're doing a full three episodes with our t 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.280 It's uh, I think that story is on the next one, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:52.800 but I can't. But I think I told you all 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.840 about those anyway. Yeah, I don't remember that part. Okay. 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:01.400 There's a story of Urt being accused of wearing a wire. Okay, 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:07.960 he does. He has a very wise moved in a 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:12.200 in a script change. Humans have scripts of how they 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.920 interact with one another. He does a script change. So 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.400 you guys actually just let the black panther out of 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.200 the bag. Hey, let me say something. I was about 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.279 to challenge Brent to do the same thing to prove it, 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.000 thinking that I heard on the podcast, but I just 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.839 heard you say it, and next week when everyone hears 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.520 what RTI Stewart does the script change. I think it'd 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.719 be worthwhile to think Misty almost challenged Brent to do 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.240 the same thing, and I think I'll make it boy laugh, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.039 especially because Brient would have no idea what I'm talking about, 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.119 and for me to just say that, So Brent Brett 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:49.200 used to work undercover for you know people, quote unquote, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.360 And I mean, what a great cover would it be 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.960 to say I used to work undercover, but don't anymore, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.280 and then to stay this long inside of it. So 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.520 you used to do undercover narcotics for how long a 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.560 period of your life? About sixteen years? Sixteen years, that's 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.280 a long time. It was a long time. How long 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.000 did you What was the longest you ever stayed undercover? Uh? 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.280 Probably I'm gonnaant to guess about four or five months 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.080 at a time. We usually could get it done in 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.240 that length of time. Yeah, it was. It was drug stuff. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.040 So yeah, you're not. I mean you're not. Once you 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.680 build a once you build a case, you get two 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.760 or three buys on somebody, it took longer to get 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.080 in than it did to actually do it, so and 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.080 what I I should probably explain it took longer. Liking 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.800 the podcast, Artie talked about developing the social stuff. Well, 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.880 there wasn't any money exchanging hands and when when you're 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:50.000 hunting illegal turkeys, but with the idea that somebody's gonna 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.200 get paid if they get one sliver of Okay, I 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.760 think I can trust this guy. Dead presidents will get 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.520 you into some place that you normally couldn't go. And 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.480 I mean, you know money, you're flash enough money, you know, 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.600 I've I've even I think I told the tale on here. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.480 One time I had an informant that went up knocked 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.120 on the door, and it's all recording, right, and the 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.680 guy comes out and he says his name wasn't Bob, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.720 but I'll say, He'll say, Bob, I know you're working 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:17.840 for the police, but you get that money in your hand, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.440 so I'm gonna sell it to you. So a lot 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.400 of the motivation for that because the money man. But 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.040 I mean it's like what goods might do you when 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.120 you're in jail. Well he I mean he said I know. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.920 When he said I know, he was just he was gambling. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:34.880 He was gambling and he wasn't, but he wanted him 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:36.920 to know that. You know, I know in the past 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.280 you have been an informant, but this person also had 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.400 a drug problem and this guy knew it. So up 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.600 until the time he was working for us, he was 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.000 probably buying from this guy. Okay, I understand. I was 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.080 thinking it was you you went to the door. It 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.600 was an informant one for you that particular time. Was 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.440 was an informant that did it. Yeah, but you know, 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.480 you moved into a play a lot of the techniques 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:02.360 and stuff that he was using. I did the same thing. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:04.720 You moved into a place and you worked there, and 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.520 you hang out in the places where those places those 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:12.360 folks are, and you know, you develop a rapport with them. Now, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.960 it was it was easy because I never once had 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.080 any inclination of like or affection for any of the 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.720 folks that I was dealing with. And it's it's easy 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.360 to see how because you're just that perfect. Well, he 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:32.520 they wasn't killing turkeys, you know they were. Yeah, they 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.400 were spreading cocaine and meth and feed amine and Harry, 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.840 we don't know whatever it was that we were targeting. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.800 That's what they were putting in the community. So it 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.960 was I got a lot of satisfaction from doing it. Yeah, 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.240 so you never had that, like they talked in this 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.240 podcast about that phenomenon where you actually, you know, develop 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:56.800 closeness to you never had that int r Twe did 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:01.439 some undercovered narcotic work. This was on the podcast, and 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.160 he said he hated it just because it was so rough, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.800 like buying drugs, you know, there's it was just rough 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.600 people all the way around, and and in the poaching 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.480 rings he was in, it was a lot of rough people, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.199 but it was a different crowd of people, and he 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.400 was involved in something that he was passionate about. So 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.280 it's not like a narcotics guy is going to be 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.280 passionate about hopefully not passionate about narc automn wanting to 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.680 get the illegal sale of him off the ground, you 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.880 see what I'm saying. So there, it was just a 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.000 different it was a different world. Well I don't, you know, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.560 I don't that's kind of not true. It was absolutely 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.040 my goal every day I went to work to get 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.760 as much as I could off the street. We remember 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.120 one year in particular, we got an award from then 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:54.000 Governor Huckabee. For every one dollar of money that we 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.840 spent out of our budget, we got three dollars worth 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.320 of drugs for a year off the street at the 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:01.720 end of the year. When we tell you that what 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:07.640 we spent, Yeah, absolutely well. And I wasn't saying that 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.680 you guys didn't like doing what you're doing. I was 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.920 just saying you weren't like arties passionate about turkey hunting. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.600 He stopped in turkey poachers, you guys, that That was 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.640 my point. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, it was. 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.560 It was interesting. It was it was hard, It was 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.960 scary at times. It was probably the best part of 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.320 my career and the worst part from my home life. 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.840 But it was. It was eventful. Can you tell us 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.120 the story of when your life was threatened or you 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.400 were scared, or there was something like your cover was busted? 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:49.240 Anything entertain Did you ever have your cover busting? No? Um, 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.720 I didn't. And then we were really careful about that. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.160 We worked in we tried. That's reason not moved, you know, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.120 different places. Was once you get known in the area, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.400 once the bust out it comes when you make all 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.720 the cases that you can make in an area and 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.800 you get and you arrest everybody. It was just like 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.600 r T. Then you gotta go to court for the 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.640 ones that don't want them plead guilty, you know, and 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.880 make a deal. And I don't want anybody to think 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.320 that I ain't making a deal, you know, if you're 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.280 selling meth and feed amine or cocaine or anything like that. 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.840 The schedule the drugs that follow in the category of 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.640 what they call us a class y, which in Arkansas 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.760 was punishable from ten to forty to life in prison. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.880 They wasn't taking who wasn't getting somebody that was selling 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.640 you know, ounces and pounds of meth and feed amine 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.280 and giving them five years in the penitentiary and you know, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.360 probation they were pleading to, you know, twenty five years, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.800 thirty years in prison. You can go on the court, 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.280 you know. I had there was one guy in particular 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.200 then in uh South Arkansas and Union County, and I 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.800 had bought from him hand to hand, I don't know, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.640 five or six times. And that was one that it 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.480 took about not about three months to do, I guess. 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.160 And I finally got to deal with him direct and 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.640 he was gonna they were going to do the discredit 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.800 the officer thing, you know what art he was saying, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.800 And that's that's what they that's really the only game. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.960 When they got you know, photo and video evidence and 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.440 a hand to hand by from a police officer, and 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.680 they offered him, the prosecutor offered him twenty five years 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.760 uh indepenitentiary to plead guilt, and he's like no, he said, no, 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.640 I'm taking I'm going to court. And he went to 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:36.199 court and they charged him with two counts and he 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:42.880 got forty five years on on each one of them. Yeah, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.960 he's in prison now. Really. Yeah. I wonder if he 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:54.199 listens to this podcast. I hope so, Hey, Robert, that's 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.240 why it's pretty interesting, man. I just can't believe that 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.480 you can do at and live. Yeah, and I would 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.000 think that somebody would be after you today. You know. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.360 You know, it was more or less, and we put 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.839 a lot of folks in prison. Uh, but a lot 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.319 of them had the mindset that their job was to 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.959 sale drugs and our job was to catch them. If 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.800 they got away with it, we lost, and if we 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.560 called them, we won. And they let it pretty well 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.880 let it go with that. You know, there's been a 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.360 few threats, but nothing was ever carried out, nothing that 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.440 we even took serious. And we went to great links 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.680 to keep our home addresses and our families out of them, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.320 out of the deal of reports anything that could be 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.920 you know, found under discovery laws. And this is also 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:49.200 before Facebook. Yeah, you know. I had a couple of 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.560 people mentioned to me. They said, hey, how how can 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:59.000 you tell all this stuff and not be hurting law 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.480 enforcement operations maybe going on right now. And to be 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.240 honest with you, I don't have a real good answer 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.440 for that. Well, I can answer that the technology is 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.280 well beyond anything they're not sending in people like that. Sure, 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.200 but the old poach coach with the VCRs and all 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.920 of that, No, I don't need it anywhere they don't 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.200 need it. There's those other ways, and I mean I 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.520 won't get specifics about it, um, but no, there's other 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.640 ways to do it. Have anything to do with hiding 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.160 cameras and overalls, could be you never enough pocket watches, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.200 pocket watches. It reminds me look at that pocket Prince Pool. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.479 That was pocket watch. That was good. It's got a 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.080 clear top on it, beautiful pocket watch. Well that that 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.080 is what So the what God has started on all. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.480 This was when I did the series on Loud and 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.840 Charlie Edwards and just as the story unfolded, like it 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.760 was like real journalism. I really don't think of myself 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:05.480 as a journalist, but that's what that was, misty, real journalist. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.640 As the story unfolded, a man came to came to 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.320 me and said, hey, I know a law enforcement guy 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.400 came to me and said I know the guy and 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.080 how to contact him of who worked undercover to try 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.520 to get lou down Charlie and so I go and 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.640 talk to Russ Arthur And that's kind of when this 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.360 whole undercover interests popped up. And so Isaac and I 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:34.280 were interviewing Chip Gross in Ohio for the Lewis Wetzel podcast, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.120 which was requested by Steve ronnella. Lewis Wetzel's a serial killer, 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:43.320 and Gross and the Louis Del Charlie Edwards stuff had 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.600 just come out, and I say, hey, we just did 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.800 a big thing about these turkey poaching outlaws in Arkansas. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.080 Chip Growth says, well, guess what. I'm a former Ohio 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.640 game warden and I wrote a book about Artie Stewart, 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.880 who's still alive retired and and that's how all the 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:06.399 started and so and and I drove up to Ohio 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:13.200 on like the October, drove there by myself and met 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.400 with RT and talked to him for like three hours, 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:21.840 and it was it was really interesting. Just RT is 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.959 an interesting guy. You know, you only get so you're 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.360 you're getting the cherry picked parts of these of these interviews. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.760 You know, it was. I mean, you know, and you 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.360 guys have heard the whole whole story. But I've had 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.199 some people say that they don't like this dark stuff. 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.160 But the America is fascinated with crime. The number one 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.879 podcast in the world is Crime Junkie. Did you know 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.280 that Isaac was the one to the producer of Burger's podcast. 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.159 I just listened to it. The story that we were 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.120 talking about earlier. That was the one my dad sent 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:59.640 me that that was the podcast I listened to, okay earlier. 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.040 What you're gonna say, Mr, I'm not fascinated with it, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.320 and I'm not. I don't judge people who are. I'm 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.400 just saying for me personally, I can't. I remember reading 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.080 reading Crime and Punishment and and not being able to sleep, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.439 having not like I actually had to stop reading the 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.840 book I was I was pregnant with bear, and it 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.359 could have I don't know I had something to do 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.880 with that. I don't, but I remember reading just I 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.680 just can't handle that delving into the dark parts of 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.480 people's like that level a guy on Instagram the other 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.399 day I said, the only way we really appreciate the 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.040 light just to understand the darkness. Yeah, that was pretty good, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.600 And yeah I said something like that, but there's a 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.720 touch of that that's really true. It sounds like a 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.520 funny jobber, but but to me, it's interesting in this 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:50.679 country of law and order that we live in, Like 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.600 in our society obeying laws, the rule of law is 0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:01.080 deeply inside of all of us and you pop out 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.959 and don't know it, but you're born into a society 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.159 that is fixated on laws. I mean, even when you 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.320 think about the politics of the country, politics is all 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.680 about you know, this much government or that much government. 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:17.600 It's all about balance. If you if you look at 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.560 traffic in this country versus traffic in other countries, you 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.879 see the rule of law. You see, like if you 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.480 travel to that's where I've seen the rule of law 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.200 is just watching how people obey stoplights when no one's 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.720 watching when there's no polace around, when it's past, you 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.159 know time. And then you go to other countries in 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.480 the midst of rush hour and people are like, there's 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.359 no regard for the law whatsoever. And that's that is 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:45.359 uniquely right. And and so when we look at the 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.919 North American model of wildlife conservation and we see it 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:52.320 as the most the most successful animal husbandry effort of 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:57.600 humans ever, it has been based upon a group of 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.560 people that were, for the most part, willing to obey 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.520 the law, which is so wild because there was no 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.199 law until the turn of the twentieth century. In the 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.240 nineteen hundreds, it was there was market hunting. So these 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:19.600 the Europeans that came over here, unregulated hunting, no rules, 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.399 no law. The market dictated like how many deer you 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.640 could kill? How many of this you could kill? And 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.879 then wildlife populations plummeted. Roosevelt, Boone and Crockett Club, all 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:32.959 these guys came in and said, hey, we gotta manage 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.840 these things, we gotta we gotta put laws in. All 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.240 these state game agencies started popping up out of nowhere 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.800 around the nineteen hundred. They instituted game laws. There was 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.200 a generation of people that despised it because they were like, what, 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.920 this is just like Europe because the mentality was that 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.040 had come from Europe where the peasants, normal people, non 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.720 rich people didn't have access to wildlife. And then we 0:20:57.720 --> 0:20:59.320 come over here and they're like, hey, this is gonna 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.000 become just like Europe. And Roosevelt was like, no, just 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.800 trust me, this is all gonna be good. And then 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.440 we just like work through this journey to get to like, 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:15.000 let's just say that as arbitrary time. But like about 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.760 the time Dad started bow hunting and and dear population 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.639 started rising, Turkey population started rising, it was like, hey, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.440 we all pretty much need to obey the law and 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.879 and and from that, you know, some didn't, but for 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.360 the most part, people obey the law, and that's such 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.160 a critical thing. So to me, that's why it's interesting. 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:40.200 It's not just like crime. Um. But I also think 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.400 it's interesting to me because I have spent the better 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.639 part of my life really trying to follow the rules. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.480 So when I see someone that just absolutely doesn't follow 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.720 the rules, I'm just like, who is this guy? And 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.960 I got that from Gary Nukle. Really you you you 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.719 said you always just kind of enjoyed just looking at 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:02.160 people who were a little bit crazy. Yeah. Yeah, would 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:05.600 you describe it like that? Yeah, absolutely, it's entertaining. I 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.439 mean I didn't I didn't like it, but it was 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.280 so opposite of the way I was raised. It was 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.480 like entertainment. See how crazy some of these people were. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.800 What do you think about this uh series so far? 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:22.000 You know, I think it's excellent. I enjoy crime and punishment, 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:26.160 you know, Uh, I'm attracted to it, and I think 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:27.720 a lot of it just has to do the way 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.000 I was Did you just say that you're attracted to crime? Well, 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:32.480 you know, I like to what I like to watch 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.760 what's going on afterre and this is this is no exception. 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.880 It's very good, very good. I do have one complaint though, Okay, 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.560 let's hear you know. I mean, you got you got 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.920 a pretty good gig going here. But the music when 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.679 you start this podcast, it sounds like it's on a 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:55.440 record where the needles going back and forth. I mean, 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.280 what's I mean? No, I don't know what. We don't 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:03.160 deserve the crisp music. Yeah, that's polish purpose. What what 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:08.000 you're referring to is the is the music and the 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:13.880 render it goes and then it it comes in full. 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.320 Yeah you don't like that. No, I don't like that. 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:22.800 But you're saying that's intentional. Man, you gotta be kidding. 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.439 I'm not even joking about what's good about it. I 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:32.119 don't know Phil Taylor did it? Phil? You know what 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:36.280 I'm talking. You know what. It's a good effect. It's 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.360 an effect. It's just a little spice of life. Yeah, 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:42.320