Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.
Speaker 1: It's been a long run since I've seen you guys
Speaker 1: on the Bear Grease Render. It's true. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: a this is a monumental day for us. We have
Speaker 1: the poor life of the city, the the the o
Speaker 1: G original Gangster Bear Grease Render crew here today. I
Speaker 1: have to my left my lovely wife, Missy Nukam. Welcome back, Misty.
Speaker 1: Good to be here supporting her first, like Parka, actually
Speaker 1: Clay's first. Like when I'm really cold, I put on
Speaker 1: Clay's really really big puffy one. So you guys, the
Speaker 1: last time we saw I saw you was before I
Speaker 1: went to Alaska in September, because you guys did a
Speaker 1: render without me on when I was in Alaska. And
Speaker 1: then the next time we did a render. Um I
Speaker 1: believe no, no, we did multiple renders, and I've been
Speaker 1: traveling and so you guys have been out of the
Speaker 1: out of the picture for a little while. It's like
Speaker 1: our vacation time. You remember when I asked Artie Stewart,
Speaker 1: if poachers are jealous, I'm gonna do do. Does the
Speaker 1: Render crew get jealous? No, not, Brent, Okay, I think
Speaker 1: it's envious or envy. Jealousy is when you are concerned
Speaker 1: that someone's gonna steal what you have, and envyous when
Speaker 1: you want what some else has. It's a good distinction.
Speaker 1: That is a good distinction. Gary and I were just
Speaker 1: talking about the Render you had with all the folks
Speaker 1: from back home. That was a pretty good That was incredible.
Speaker 1: Feedback from the Render with Scott Andy, Steve Phillips, Randy Steppe,
Speaker 1: coy House, Gary Nukem, Yeah, that was a good one.
Speaker 1: That was a really good I really enjoyed the one
Speaker 1: with James Lawrence and yes, that was I would have
Speaker 1: Gerald Brewer on this podcast every week. Feed drive up here.
Speaker 1: I have so many good Jail Brewer stories. We need
Speaker 1: to He got a head of hair like a movie star.
Speaker 1: So missies to my left and then Brent Reeves, Who's
Speaker 1: who's I've got. We've got a little dialogue to have together, Brent, Welcome,
Speaker 1: Thank you to your left, Josh Lambridge Pillmaker, Josh. Good
Speaker 1: to be back to see you back in the saddle.
Speaker 1: Great to see you. To Josh's left, Isaac Neil, I'm
Speaker 1: just happy to be invited to the user of the
Speaker 1: Burgers podcast. Got a nice mustache right now too. My
Speaker 1: wife said, uh, why don't you shave your beard and
Speaker 1: do a mustache? And I said, yes, ma'am. Did she
Speaker 1: mean a food mancho Okay, so I had not shaved
Speaker 1: because she might not have that's a different thing. So
Speaker 1: I haven't shaved in eleven years at all, like anything
Speaker 1: at all. And so I shaved, and as I was going,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, just like, you know, the cop mustache,
Speaker 1: the dad mustache, just topp And then I started shaving.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I don't know, so I just
Speaker 1: kind of stopped. It wasn't even like the bottom of
Speaker 1: the jaw foo man choose, just like That's when it
Speaker 1: occurred to me. And I was like, well, i'll just
Speaker 1: find out, Like she's getting home in an hour. And
Speaker 1: so she came home and she's like, yeah, that's that's good,
Speaker 1: that's acceptable. Okay, Okay, we need to probably come back
Speaker 1: to talking about facial hair and that. Yeah after, just
Speaker 1: after you introduce our last person, because we need to
Speaker 1: talk about your most recent mediator video. Okay, So, into
Speaker 1: Isaac's left is Gary Believer Nukem, who your name came
Speaker 1: up on the podcast this week unannounced. You heard that.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if you had approved of that or not.
Speaker 1: That was okay, okay, I wouldn't pretty notorious with that
Speaker 1: with my buddies over the years. Good, well, good as
Speaker 1: I did it, I was like, I think it'd be
Speaker 1: cool with this. So, uh, Brent Reeves, your career kind
Speaker 1: of is that a forking road? I guess so is
Speaker 1: your freedom? Uh? So, how how did you feel, um
Speaker 1: now that your coversman busted? Has it been efficiently busted? Well?
Speaker 1: I mean I've called you out NonStop on this podcast
Speaker 1: for being an undercover agent or man. You can say anything.
Speaker 1: You can say a rooster dip snuff, but if you
Speaker 1: don't see a snuff can under his wing is still
Speaker 1: ain't true. So am I right? I'm still piecing all
Speaker 1: that together in my brain. I I feel like the
Speaker 1: big difference is Clay is saying I saw the snuff
Speaker 1: can yeah, yeah, I saw the snuff. Can well it
Speaker 1: remains to be seen. Okay, okay, just keeping right if
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing. I never stopped. Okay, that's in opinion.
Speaker 1: I never started perfectly doing wrong. I mean, everybody makes
Speaker 1: a mistake it right now? Then well wait, can I
Speaker 1: just can I just say, did you check his hat
Speaker 1: for a wire? Yeah? Maybe, Britain, I think you're the
Speaker 1: one where in the wire take your shirt off? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And that was that on this podcast. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's the last one. I want to say
Speaker 1: the full story of that one is on the next
Speaker 1: because we're doing a full three episodes with our t
Speaker 1: It's uh, I think that story is on the next one,
Speaker 1: but I can't. But I think I told you all
Speaker 1: about those anyway. Yeah, I don't remember that part. Okay.
Speaker 1: There's a story of Urt being accused of wearing a wire. Okay,
Speaker 1: he does. He has a very wise moved in a
Speaker 1: in a script change. Humans have scripts of how they
Speaker 1: interact with one another. He does a script change. So
Speaker 1: you guys actually just let the black panther out of
Speaker 1: the bag. Hey, let me say something. I was about
Speaker 1: to challenge Brent to do the same thing to prove it,
Speaker 1: thinking that I heard on the podcast, but I just
Speaker 1: heard you say it, and next week when everyone hears
Speaker 1: what RTI Stewart does the script change. I think it'd
Speaker 1: be worthwhile to think Misty almost challenged Brent to do
Speaker 1: the same thing, and I think I'll make it boy laugh,
Speaker 1: especially because Brient would have no idea what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: and for me to just say that, So Brent Brett
Speaker 1: used to work undercover for you know people, quote unquote,
Speaker 1: And I mean, what a great cover would it be
Speaker 1: to say I used to work undercover, but don't anymore,
Speaker 1: and then to stay this long inside of it. So
Speaker 1: you used to do undercover narcotics for how long a
Speaker 1: period of your life? About sixteen years? Sixteen years, that's
Speaker 1: a long time. It was a long time. How long
Speaker 1: did you What was the longest you ever stayed undercover? Uh?
Speaker 1: Probably I'm gonnaant to guess about four or five months
Speaker 1: at a time. We usually could get it done in
Speaker 1: that length of time. Yeah, it was. It was drug stuff.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're not. I mean you're not. Once you
Speaker 1: build a once you build a case, you get two
Speaker 1: or three buys on somebody, it took longer to get
Speaker 1: in than it did to actually do it, so and
Speaker 1: what I I should probably explain it took longer. Liking
Speaker 1: the podcast, Artie talked about developing the social stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: there wasn't any money exchanging hands and when when you're
Speaker 1: hunting illegal turkeys, but with the idea that somebody's gonna
Speaker 1: get paid if they get one sliver of Okay, I
Speaker 1: think I can trust this guy. Dead presidents will get
Speaker 1: you into some place that you normally couldn't go. And
Speaker 1: I mean, you know money, you're flash enough money, you know,
Speaker 1: I've I've even I think I told the tale on here.
Speaker 1: One time I had an informant that went up knocked
Speaker 1: on the door, and it's all recording, right, and the
Speaker 1: guy comes out and he says his name wasn't Bob,
Speaker 1: but I'll say, He'll say, Bob, I know you're working
Speaker 1: for the police, but you get that money in your hand,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna sell it to you. So a lot
Speaker 1: of the motivation for that because the money man. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's like what goods might do you when
Speaker 1: you're in jail. Well he I mean he said I know.
Speaker 1: When he said I know, he was just he was gambling.
Speaker 1: He was gambling and he wasn't, but he wanted him
Speaker 1: to know that. You know, I know in the past
Speaker 1: you have been an informant, but this person also had
Speaker 1: a drug problem and this guy knew it. So up
Speaker 1: until the time he was working for us, he was
Speaker 1: probably buying from this guy. Okay, I understand. I was
Speaker 1: thinking it was you you went to the door. It
Speaker 1: was an informant one for you that particular time. Was
Speaker 1: was an informant that did it. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: you moved into a play a lot of the techniques
Speaker 1: and stuff that he was using. I did the same thing.
Speaker 1: You moved into a place and you worked there, and
Speaker 1: you hang out in the places where those places those
Speaker 1: folks are, and you know, you develop a rapport with them. Now,
Speaker 1: it was it was easy because I never once had
Speaker 1: any inclination of like or affection for any of the
Speaker 1: folks that I was dealing with. And it's it's easy
Speaker 1: to see how because you're just that perfect. Well, he
Speaker 1: they wasn't killing turkeys, you know they were. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were spreading cocaine and meth and feed amine and Harry,
Speaker 1: we don't know whatever it was that we were targeting.
Speaker 1: That's what they were putting in the community. So it
Speaker 1: was I got a lot of satisfaction from doing it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you never had that, like they talked in this
Speaker 1: podcast about that phenomenon where you actually, you know, develop
Speaker 1: closeness to you never had that int r Twe did
Speaker 1: some undercovered narcotic work. This was on the podcast, and
Speaker 1: he said he hated it just because it was so rough,
Speaker 1: like buying drugs, you know, there's it was just rough
Speaker 1: people all the way around, and and in the poaching
Speaker 1: rings he was in, it was a lot of rough people,
Speaker 1: but it was a different crowd of people, and he
Speaker 1: was involved in something that he was passionate about. So
Speaker 1: it's not like a narcotics guy is going to be
Speaker 1: passionate about hopefully not passionate about narc automn wanting to
Speaker 1: get the illegal sale of him off the ground, you
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So there, it was just a
Speaker 1: different it was a different world. Well I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't that's kind of not true. It was absolutely
Speaker 1: my goal every day I went to work to get
Speaker 1: as much as I could off the street. We remember
Speaker 1: one year in particular, we got an award from then
Speaker 1: Governor Huckabee. For every one dollar of money that we
Speaker 1: spent out of our budget, we got three dollars worth
Speaker 1: of drugs for a year off the street at the
Speaker 1: end of the year. When we tell you that what
Speaker 1: we spent, Yeah, absolutely well. And I wasn't saying that
Speaker 1: you guys didn't like doing what you're doing. I was
Speaker 1: just saying you weren't like arties passionate about turkey hunting.
Speaker 1: He stopped in turkey poachers, you guys, that That was
Speaker 1: my point. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was interesting. It was it was hard, It was
Speaker 1: scary at times. It was probably the best part of
Speaker 1: my career and the worst part from my home life.
Speaker 1: But it was. It was eventful. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: the story of when your life was threatened or you
Speaker 1: were scared, or there was something like your cover was busted?
Speaker 1: Anything entertain Did you ever have your cover busting? No? Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't. And then we were really careful about that.
Speaker 1: We worked in we tried. That's reason not moved, you know,
Speaker 1: different places. Was once you get known in the area,
Speaker 1: once the bust out it comes when you make all
Speaker 1: the cases that you can make in an area and
Speaker 1: you get and you arrest everybody. It was just like
Speaker 1: r T. Then you gotta go to court for the
Speaker 1: ones that don't want them plead guilty, you know, and
Speaker 1: make a deal. And I don't want anybody to think
Speaker 1: that I ain't making a deal, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: selling meth and feed amine or cocaine or anything like that.
Speaker 1: The schedule the drugs that follow in the category of
Speaker 1: what they call us a class y, which in Arkansas
Speaker 1: was punishable from ten to forty to life in prison.
Speaker 1: They wasn't taking who wasn't getting somebody that was selling
Speaker 1: you know, ounces and pounds of meth and feed amine
Speaker 1: and giving them five years in the penitentiary and you know,
Speaker 1: probation they were pleading to, you know, twenty five years,
Speaker 1: thirty years in prison. You can go on the court,
Speaker 1: you know. I had there was one guy in particular
Speaker 1: then in uh South Arkansas and Union County, and I
Speaker 1: had bought from him hand to hand, I don't know,
Speaker 1: five or six times. And that was one that it
Speaker 1: took about not about three months to do, I guess.
Speaker 1: And I finally got to deal with him direct and
Speaker 1: he was gonna they were going to do the discredit
Speaker 1: the officer thing, you know what art he was saying,
Speaker 1: And that's that's what they that's really the only game.
Speaker 1: When they got you know, photo and video evidence and
Speaker 1: a hand to hand by from a police officer, and
Speaker 1: they offered him, the prosecutor offered him twenty five years
Speaker 1: uh indepenitentiary to plead guilt, and he's like no, he said, no,
Speaker 1: I'm taking I'm going to court. And he went to
Speaker 1: court and they charged him with two counts and he
Speaker 1: got forty five years on on each one of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's in prison now. Really. Yeah. I wonder if he
Speaker 1: listens to this podcast. I hope so, Hey, Robert, that's
Speaker 1: why it's pretty interesting, man. I just can't believe that
Speaker 1: you can do at and live. Yeah, and I would
Speaker 1: think that somebody would be after you today. You know.
Speaker 1: You know, it was more or less, and we put
Speaker 1: a lot of folks in prison. Uh, but a lot
Speaker 1: of them had the mindset that their job was to
Speaker 1: sale drugs and our job was to catch them. If
Speaker 1: they got away with it, we lost, and if we
Speaker 1: called them, we won. And they let it pretty well
Speaker 1: let it go with that. You know, there's been a
Speaker 1: few threats, but nothing was ever carried out, nothing that
Speaker 1: we even took serious. And we went to great links
Speaker 1: to keep our home addresses and our families out of them,
Speaker 1: out of the deal of reports anything that could be
Speaker 1: you know, found under discovery laws. And this is also
Speaker 1: before Facebook. Yeah, you know. I had a couple of
Speaker 1: people mentioned to me. They said, hey, how how can
Speaker 1: you tell all this stuff and not be hurting law
Speaker 1: enforcement operations maybe going on right now. And to be
Speaker 1: honest with you, I don't have a real good answer
Speaker 1: for that. Well, I can answer that the technology is
Speaker 1: well beyond anything they're not sending in people like that. Sure,
Speaker 1: but the old poach coach with the VCRs and all
Speaker 1: of that, No, I don't need it anywhere they don't
Speaker 1: need it. There's those other ways, and I mean I
Speaker 1: won't get specifics about it, um, but no, there's other
Speaker 1: ways to do it. Have anything to do with hiding
Speaker 1: cameras and overalls, could be you never enough pocket watches,
Speaker 1: pocket watches. It reminds me look at that pocket Prince Pool.
Speaker 1: That was pocket watch. That was good. It's got a
Speaker 1: clear top on it, beautiful pocket watch. Well that that
Speaker 1: is what So the what God has started on all.
Speaker 1: This was when I did the series on Loud and
Speaker 1: Charlie Edwards and just as the story unfolded, like it
Speaker 1: was like real journalism. I really don't think of myself
Speaker 1: as a journalist, but that's what that was, misty, real journalist.
Speaker 1: As the story unfolded, a man came to came to
Speaker 1: me and said, hey, I know a law enforcement guy
Speaker 1: came to me and said I know the guy and
Speaker 1: how to contact him of who worked undercover to try
Speaker 1: to get lou down Charlie and so I go and
Speaker 1: talk to Russ Arthur And that's kind of when this
Speaker 1: whole undercover interests popped up. And so Isaac and I
Speaker 1: were interviewing Chip Gross in Ohio for the Lewis Wetzel podcast,
Speaker 1: which was requested by Steve ronnella. Lewis Wetzel's a serial killer,
Speaker 1: and Gross and the Louis Del Charlie Edwards stuff had
Speaker 1: just come out, and I say, hey, we just did
Speaker 1: a big thing about these turkey poaching outlaws in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: Chip Growth says, well, guess what. I'm a former Ohio
Speaker 1: game warden and I wrote a book about Artie Stewart,
Speaker 1: who's still alive retired and and that's how all the
Speaker 1: started and so and and I drove up to Ohio
Speaker 1: on like the October, drove there by myself and met
Speaker 1: with RT and talked to him for like three hours,
Speaker 1: and it was it was really interesting. Just RT is
Speaker 1: an interesting guy. You know, you only get so you're
Speaker 1: you're getting the cherry picked parts of these of these interviews.
Speaker 1: You know, it was. I mean, you know, and you
Speaker 1: guys have heard the whole whole story. But I've had
Speaker 1: some people say that they don't like this dark stuff.
Speaker 1: But the America is fascinated with crime. The number one
Speaker 1: podcast in the world is Crime Junkie. Did you know
Speaker 1: that Isaac was the one to the producer of Burger's podcast.
Speaker 1: I just listened to it. The story that we were
Speaker 1: talking about earlier. That was the one my dad sent
Speaker 1: me that that was the podcast I listened to, okay earlier.
Speaker 1: What you're gonna say, Mr, I'm not fascinated with it,
Speaker 1: and I'm not. I don't judge people who are. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying for me personally, I can't. I remember reading
Speaker 1: reading Crime and Punishment and and not being able to sleep,
Speaker 1: having not like I actually had to stop reading the
Speaker 1: book I was I was pregnant with bear, and it
Speaker 1: could have I don't know I had something to do
Speaker 1: with that. I don't, but I remember reading just I
Speaker 1: just can't handle that delving into the dark parts of
Speaker 1: people's like that level a guy on Instagram the other
Speaker 1: day I said, the only way we really appreciate the
Speaker 1: light just to understand the darkness. Yeah, that was pretty good,
Speaker 1: And yeah I said something like that, but there's a
Speaker 1: touch of that that's really true. It sounds like a
Speaker 1: funny jobber, but but to me, it's interesting in this
Speaker 1: country of law and order that we live in, Like
Speaker 1: in our society obeying laws, the rule of law is
Speaker 1: deeply inside of all of us and you pop out
Speaker 1: and don't know it, but you're born into a society
Speaker 1: that is fixated on laws. I mean, even when you
Speaker 1: think about the politics of the country, politics is all
Speaker 1: about you know, this much government or that much government.
Speaker 1: It's all about balance. If you if you look at
Speaker 1: traffic in this country versus traffic in other countries, you
Speaker 1: see the rule of law. You see, like if you
Speaker 1: travel to that's where I've seen the rule of law
Speaker 1: is just watching how people obey stoplights when no one's
Speaker 1: watching when there's no polace around, when it's past, you
Speaker 1: know time. And then you go to other countries in
Speaker 1: the midst of rush hour and people are like, there's
Speaker 1: no regard for the law whatsoever. And that's that is
Speaker 1: uniquely right. And and so when we look at the
Speaker 1: North American model of wildlife conservation and we see it
Speaker 1: as the most the most successful animal husbandry effort of
Speaker 1: humans ever, it has been based upon a group of
Speaker 1: people that were, for the most part, willing to obey
Speaker 1: the law, which is so wild because there was no
Speaker 1: law until the turn of the twentieth century. In the
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, it was there was market hunting. So these
Speaker 1: the Europeans that came over here, unregulated hunting, no rules,
Speaker 1: no law. The market dictated like how many deer you
Speaker 1: could kill? How many of this you could kill? And
Speaker 1: then wildlife populations plummeted. Roosevelt, Boone and Crockett Club, all
Speaker 1: these guys came in and said, hey, we gotta manage
Speaker 1: these things, we gotta we gotta put laws in. All
Speaker 1: these state game agencies started popping up out of nowhere
Speaker 1: around the nineteen hundred. They instituted game laws. There was
Speaker 1: a generation of people that despised it because they were like, what,
Speaker 1: this is just like Europe because the mentality was that
Speaker 1: had come from Europe where the peasants, normal people, non
Speaker 1: rich people didn't have access to wildlife. And then we
Speaker 1: come over here and they're like, hey, this is gonna
Speaker 1: become just like Europe. And Roosevelt was like, no, just
Speaker 1: trust me, this is all gonna be good. And then
Speaker 1: we just like work through this journey to get to like,
Speaker 1: let's just say that as arbitrary time. But like about
Speaker 1: the time Dad started bow hunting and and dear population
Speaker 1: started rising, Turkey population started rising, it was like, hey,
Speaker 1: we all pretty much need to obey the law and
Speaker 1: and and from that, you know, some didn't, but for
Speaker 1: the most part, people obey the law, and that's such
Speaker 1: a critical thing. So to me, that's why it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's not just like crime. Um. But I also think
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me because I have spent the better
Speaker 1: part of my life really trying to follow the rules.
Speaker 1: So when I see someone that just absolutely doesn't follow
Speaker 1: the rules, I'm just like, who is this guy? And
Speaker 1: I got that from Gary Nukle. Really you you you
Speaker 1: said you always just kind of enjoyed just looking at
Speaker 1: people who were a little bit crazy. Yeah. Yeah, would
Speaker 1: you describe it like that? Yeah, absolutely, it's entertaining. I
Speaker 1: mean I didn't I didn't like it, but it was
Speaker 1: so opposite of the way I was raised. It was
Speaker 1: like entertainment. See how crazy some of these people were.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this uh series so far?
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's excellent. I enjoy crime and punishment,
Speaker 1: you know, Uh, I'm attracted to it, and I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it just has to do the way
Speaker 1: I was Did you just say that you're attracted to crime? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I like to what I like to watch
Speaker 1: what's going on afterre and this is this is no exception.
Speaker 1: It's very good, very good. I do have one complaint though, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's hear you know. I mean, you got you got
Speaker 1: a pretty good gig going here. But the music when
Speaker 1: you start this podcast, it sounds like it's on a
Speaker 1: record where the needles going back and forth. I mean,
Speaker 1: what's I mean? No, I don't know what. We don't
Speaker 1: deserve the crisp music. Yeah, that's polish purpose. What what
Speaker 1: you're referring to is the is the music and the
Speaker 1: render it goes and then it it comes in full.
Speaker 1: Yeah you don't like that. No, I don't like that.
Speaker 1: But you're saying that's intentional. Man, you gotta be kidding.
Speaker 1: I'm not even joking about what's good about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know Phil Taylor did it? Phil? You know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking. You know what. It's a good effect. It's
Speaker 1: an effect. It's just a little spice of life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it catches you off guard. It's it's like a
Speaker 1: script change. You think you're gonna come in and hear this,
Speaker 1: but then you you're like, wait a minute, it sounds
Speaker 1: it kicks in. We'll see the smart people figure that out.
Speaker 1: But when you got a i Q sixty, you're like,
Speaker 1: so that's the only in a lot of your audience
Speaker 1: the first time you caught that. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: how you saying, Clay's audience is a little like some
Speaker 1: of it. Any audience does. So anyway, I'd like Taylor
Speaker 1: to is it Taylor till Taylor? Bill Taylor get that text, man,
Speaker 1: He'll keep it. What what stood out to you? Was
Speaker 1: there any part of it that you just you liked?
Speaker 1: I mean stories of you know, the individual stories, some
Speaker 1: of them. I just really enjoyed. You know, I listened
Speaker 1: to that three times and uh, I just liked every
Speaker 1: bit of it. Period. But on the way up here,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I'm like to come up with
Speaker 1: something that's my favorite thing, and you know what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, And it's pretty close to the truth when
Speaker 1: you said, boys, get the popcorn. Now, you know, whenever
Speaker 1: he watched the VHS tape, Yeah, the judge in jury
Speaker 1: is gonna watch the take, man get the popcorn. Now.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, you know, just all of it. I
Speaker 1: mean the whole thing, and um, it was just really
Speaker 1: intriguing to me, and I think, um, it was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite overall. I mean, it doesn't probably stack
Speaker 1: up with Daniel Boone or some of the others. It's historically,
Speaker 1: you know, you get into some really cool stuff, but
Speaker 1: the entertainment wise, it was up there pretty high for me. Yeah, Josh,
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part of what you've heard so far?
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm just fascinated with the psychology
Speaker 1: of being an undercover agent and just having to like
Speaker 1: constantly live a lie in such a way that your
Speaker 1: lie becomes your reality. And I think that's I can't
Speaker 1: quite wrap my mind around that. How that affects the
Speaker 1: way you think and the way that you see life,
Speaker 1: how you connect with people that you genuinely have relationship with,
Speaker 1: and then just the fact of of building relationships with
Speaker 1: people that you're going to have to arrest, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's it's got to throw you into
Speaker 1: termo what it takes a very unique individual to be
Speaker 1: able to do that. Um, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think the average person couldn't couldn't do that. And so
Speaker 1: just listening to him talk and that's even how he
Speaker 1: would talk to you and just kind of be like,
Speaker 1: is that the truth? Did I tell you the truth?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It was just like it's
Speaker 1: like wow, I can't I can't imagine what that's like,
Speaker 1: just having that dichotomy inside so long that the dichotomy disappears,
Speaker 1: And I wonder sometimes like like do you do you
Speaker 1: are you able to differentiate between what's reality and what's not? Um,
Speaker 1: it's pretty fascinating. But I also also like like hearing
Speaker 1: him say, you know, I recognize what this has done
Speaker 1: to my family and and you know, it put a
Speaker 1: lot of strain on my relationships and you know, I
Speaker 1: regret that, you know, I think the work that I
Speaker 1: did was good, but I regret the the you know,
Speaker 1: what it did to my family. I think, I think
Speaker 1: that takes a It takes a an honest uh. It
Speaker 1: takes a self evaluative person to be able to to
Speaker 1: look at that and admit that with with um, with humility,
Speaker 1: and so I think that, you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what his life is like now, but I think he
Speaker 1: probably you know, spends a lot more time investing in
Speaker 1: things that are valuable in his life. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: that idea of an undercover agent getting close to somebody
Speaker 1: is something that you typically wouldn't think about. And the
Speaker 1: main reason I thought about it was because of lou
Speaker 1: down Charlie. Typically we have a really easy, easy time
Speaker 1: like just say, talking about a criminal, just very derogatively,
Speaker 1: just like criminals. Of course, anybody would you know, go
Speaker 1: in undercover and would be thrilled to turn these guys,
Speaker 1: which is a true story, but it's a little more
Speaker 1: nuanced than that. And that's the whole thing about Louis
Speaker 1: Dell and Charlie. That was the whole story, The whole
Speaker 1: part of that series that was so interesting is that
Speaker 1: these were actually too many people, really likable people, but
Speaker 1: also these outlaws, and so I think that's and and
Speaker 1: then you know, ARTI is just a random agent that
Speaker 1: kind of picked out of the hat. And I go
Speaker 1: to him and I say, hey, were you ever really
Speaker 1: close to somebody that you had respect for? And he's,
Speaker 1: you know, yep, sure was. There was this one guy.
Speaker 1: So and then I talked to Matthew Sharps, Dr. Matthew Sharps,
Speaker 1: who says, this is really common. So that's an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: And that's where you can't take the human out of
Speaker 1: the equation, and human beings being susceptible to relationship, susceptible
Speaker 1: to liking someone, susceptible to seeing something good in someone
Speaker 1: even if even if there's some bad stuff. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that's a good I was honestly surprised. The
Speaker 1: other way, I felt like I was a little bit
Speaker 1: surprised that he only had a closer relationship with one person,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like when you're around people, and this
Speaker 1: probably speaks to the character of the people that he
Speaker 1: was around, and that we're making a career out of proaching,
Speaker 1: But just like I feel like I can start to
Speaker 1: empathize with or you know, have a have a person
Speaker 1: to person relationship with just about anybody if I've given
Speaker 1: enough time around them. But I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: remarkable that there was really only one that he was like, Man,
Speaker 1: I feel bad for this guy the rest of him.
Speaker 1: No feeling actually took out part of what he said
Speaker 1: because it was so hard. Uh. At one point when
Speaker 1: I said what about these other guys, and he just
Speaker 1: said they're despicable people. I mean like yeah, uh and uh,
Speaker 1: and I mean you try, just like when he they
Speaker 1: asked the defense lawyer asked if he smoked dope with
Speaker 1: a guy and he said, yeah, I did. I believed
Speaker 1: Art when he said they were despicable people because he
Speaker 1: also was like Target number two was actually a pretty
Speaker 1: good guy, just caught up in a bad part of
Speaker 1: his life. And oh man, I I can't spill the
Speaker 1: beans too much because there are no beans. Josh, there's
Speaker 1: no beans. But I would love to talk to Target
Speaker 1: number two. I know who he is, where he lives. Oh,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, like the address of his
Speaker 1: house is he is he one of our relatives. I
Speaker 1: know where the guys at, and I think he actually
Speaker 1: I think that he's actually a really good, good guy. Now,
Speaker 1: I would suspicion that he would talk to you. I
Speaker 1: bet you he's one of these guys that says, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I got kind of trapped up and in a man
Speaker 1: I regret it, and I got a wonderful family, and
Speaker 1: I got a great job and I look back on
Speaker 1: that period and you know, I mean, who knows. That's
Speaker 1: my instinct too, And uh, I'm actually trying to reach
Speaker 1: out to the guy right now. That would be awesome
Speaker 1: if you could have one thing that I'd like to
Speaker 1: comment on what just said. I know Misty has a
Speaker 1: comment on that too, But uh, you know, to be
Speaker 1: a law enforcement guy, you gotta have a certain makeup,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you gotta want to do it.
Speaker 1: It's like his little kids, you know. I want to
Speaker 1: be a cowboy. I want to be a policeman. I
Speaker 1: want to be there, you know. I mean it's like
Speaker 1: and a lot of these guys end up doing it,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, So our society is kind of geared
Speaker 1: to where we can fill all spaces. You know, there's
Speaker 1: so but to be a cop, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, but to be an undercover guy it would
Speaker 1: be really interesting to see what the makeup is of
Speaker 1: these undercover guys. I would think adrenaline junkie, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're stepping into a high every day. Every
Speaker 1: day when you wake up, You're just going to you know,
Speaker 1: I can die to day, you know. I mean, so
Speaker 1: somehow you come like that, I would have to absolutely
Speaker 1: say that that's right and to the point that you
Speaker 1: sacrifice everything else, Yeah, very much so. And it was
Speaker 1: it was all encompassing. I missed funerals, I missed visitations
Speaker 1: because somebody called and I had to go, and when
Speaker 1: I didn't have to, but I wanted to, and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to go because I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: with my family. I wanted to go because there was
Speaker 1: somebody else to catch and I needed and I thought
Speaker 1: that I needed to go do that, and it it all,
Speaker 1: it all came full circle to me one morning. It
Speaker 1: was on a Saturday, and I had taken um my
Speaker 1: son to eat breakfast. We're gonna eat breakfast a little
Speaker 1: cafe and we were sitting there eating and he was know.
Speaker 1: During this time, my brother and I we still had
Speaker 1: had the guide service going, and we had labradors at home.
Speaker 1: This is all gonna make sense in a minute. And
Speaker 1: we were sitting at the table eating breakfast, and I
Speaker 1: was facing the door, obviously, and my son was backwards
Speaker 1: to the door, and he's five or six years old.
Speaker 1: And a truck goes by that had a yellow lab
Speaker 1: and a black lab in it, and I said, Hunter,
Speaker 1: there goes a truck with two labs in it, and
Speaker 1: without turning around, he looked at me and said, myth labs. Oh,
Speaker 1: And that was the That was a pretty hard thing
Speaker 1: to but that was his first thought. And we had
Speaker 1: labradors at home, and his first thought because that's all
Speaker 1: he heard me talk about, you know, and you know
Speaker 1: where's Daddy at He's working a myth lab. You know,
Speaker 1: at that time there was only four or five of
Speaker 1: the south of Little Rock that were myth lab certified
Speaker 1: to take down myth labs. And you had had these
Speaker 1: this DA training and we went to Quantico and had
Speaker 1: all his training to be able to dismantle them because
Speaker 1: they were so hazardous and we were averaging, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes five or six a month, and we were going
Speaker 1: everywhere and it was just a real time consuming thing.
Speaker 1: And it was at the height of the myth and
Speaker 1: fed a mean plague, and you know in Arkansas and
Speaker 1: this part of the country. So I mean that was
Speaker 1: he should that should have never been his first thought,
Speaker 1: and that was his first thought. So it came pretty
Speaker 1: well full circle there. And yet I still did it
Speaker 1: for another six or seven years before I could drive
Speaker 1: to be successful at what you were doing. It was
Speaker 1: it sounds like it might be more than the adrenaline high,
Speaker 1: the addiction. You know, I got a had a I
Speaker 1: enjoy testifying in court. I enjoyed a challenge. I loved
Speaker 1: it when they wouldn't. I love going to court because
Speaker 1: I wanted people to know what we were doing and
Speaker 1: what these folks were doing, and it was a challenge
Speaker 1: to me and I never you know, there were a
Speaker 1: lot of officers that didn't like defense attorneys. I absolutely
Speaker 1: love them, and I'd like, man, do your job. If
Speaker 1: you can get me, if you can beat me, beat me.
Speaker 1: I never lost because I put so much into it,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't by myself, our whole crew, we never
Speaker 1: lost a case it went to court because we knew
Speaker 1: the challenges and stuff that they were looking for, and
Speaker 1: that was it was vital important to me to go
Speaker 1: beyond what we needed to do to ensure that when
Speaker 1: we laid it out there on a piece of paper,
Speaker 1: if they had any sense, they would say, look, there's
Speaker 1: no yeah, we're not gonna go to court. Another reason
Speaker 1: I like testifying in court. It was the only time
Speaker 1: that I knew in a room that I was sitting
Speaker 1: in that when I was talking, everybody was listening to me.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of similarities there between you undercover
Speaker 1: guys in in War heat Rose. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you've got a family at home, but you're you want
Speaker 1: to go back to Afghanistan, and I mean you want
Speaker 1: to be a sniper. You know, you got you got this,
Speaker 1: You're focused, so uh, you know a lot of kutos
Speaker 1: of these guys. I mean it's just it's pretty cool
Speaker 1: what they're doing and the sacrifices and in the benefit
Speaker 1: that comes from it for our society. Yeah, Brett, what
Speaker 1: stood out to you as a favorite part being being
Speaker 1: in knowing that game, Like, was there a party just
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed. I knew what he was gonna say
Speaker 1: when you asked him was it worth it? M because
Speaker 1: it wasn't worth it to me either at the time.
Speaker 1: It was, But when you asked him, and he said, no,
Speaker 1: it's it wasn't. But that that's what stood out the
Speaker 1: most to me. A lot. There was a lot of similarities.
Speaker 1: He was telling stories and all the stuff that he
Speaker 1: talked about gathering in cases and making the case and
Speaker 1: being with those folks and having to be in the
Speaker 1: places that he was. You know the thing, uh, it
Speaker 1: stood out about the cover almost being blown. Yeah, that happened.
Speaker 1: That happened. We had been invited by a a law
Speaker 1: enforcement or sheriff of a county in South Arkansas that
Speaker 1: was suspect to us to begin with, but he he
Speaker 1: had invited us to come work on a problem of
Speaker 1: meth and fetamine ring down there in that area. And
Speaker 1: we went down there, but we were didn't tell him
Speaker 1: we were coming. And we went in this this bar
Speaker 1: that uh, and we were there was three of us
Speaker 1: in there working, and of course he had no clue
Speaker 1: that we were down there, correct. And who do we
Speaker 1: see walking the door where there an iron and a
Speaker 1: half walks in and walks behind the bar, fixes itself
Speaker 1: a drink and then walks back out. And everybody in
Speaker 1: there was in the athan fhetamine trade. M do you
Speaker 1: think he was on the inside of it. I didn't
Speaker 1: say that he's no longer alive. He's no, he was
Speaker 1: no longer a sheriff shortly after that. But we'll call it.
Speaker 1: We'll call him target number three. All he had to
Speaker 1: do was to look where he was at, because he
Speaker 1: knew all of us. All he had to done was
Speaker 1: looked at where we were sitting, because we, I mean
Speaker 1: we were all looking at each other, like, what's what's
Speaker 1: going on? You know? I was because there's no windows
Speaker 1: in that place, and I was looking to crawl that
Speaker 1: one because that could have ruined a whole bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: But luckily it didn't. He never looked at us, He
Speaker 1: didn't see us, never knew we were there. But so
Speaker 1: I can I empathize with that. I don't know what
Speaker 1: he's how that that feels. I also know how it feels.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't. I'm very proud of the stuff that I did,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't do it again. And even though I
Speaker 1: miss it, I wouldn't do it any more. You're safe, Yeah, Dad?
Speaker 1: What do you say? The chances are that brand is
Speaker 1: actually an UNDERCOVERA But I think it's real high. I
Speaker 1: think him stripped. No, I don't want him to do.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Has Clay talked about that yet?
Speaker 1: That's on the third episode. I just told you all
Speaker 1: about that. Um miss Nokem, what stood out to you?
Speaker 1: What was your favorite part? Well, I thought, I mean
Speaker 1: it really is. I do. I don't like getting in
Speaker 1: on the dark side of people's inner conscious but I
Speaker 1: do enjoy like crime and law and order and chose,
Speaker 1: you know, I enjoy what I don't enjoy, you know,
Speaker 1: criminal activity. But but like like Josh was saying, the
Speaker 1: psychology of what he was doing, I don't think I
Speaker 1: could do it. I don't think I really don't think.
Speaker 1: We were talking to of our daughters last night. I
Speaker 1: was telling her a story about a situation that I
Speaker 1: got in where someone was asking me questions and I
Speaker 1: knew to answer them would actually reveal some information about
Speaker 1: a different person that would diminish their reputation in the
Speaker 1: eyes of the person I was talking to. So I
Speaker 1: didn't answer fully. I answered honestly, but I didn't answer fully.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell the whole story, and and I said
Speaker 1: when I walked away, I kind of felt sick because
Speaker 1: I felt like I had lied to them, even though
Speaker 1: I didn't lie. I teld you know, I was like
Speaker 1: really careful to tell the truth. But I think I
Speaker 1: would be a hot mess in a situation where I
Speaker 1: was every single day having to portray myself differently than
Speaker 1: like who I I would just be so incredibly difficult.
Speaker 1: I thought it was crazy, all the close calls he
Speaker 1: came to, like when he was talking about the people
Speaker 1: overhearing from the other room, the guys, Yes, that is crazy.
Speaker 1: And that's just the ones that he knew about, right, Oh,
Speaker 1: and that's just the ones on this case. Right. This
Speaker 1: was a small part of his full career. Who knows,
Speaker 1: you know how many times I walk around a corner
Speaker 1: and somebody walked out of store or something. You know that, Hey,
Speaker 1: I know that guy. Well, I was just thinking about
Speaker 1: like the idea of the poach coach. Like I'm a
Speaker 1: pretty curious person, and I can't imagine sitting in the
Speaker 1: back of the van and not just like looking around.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a cool thing, and you're just like, yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I feel like there are so many inox. Have you
Speaker 1: ever looked at my console and looked at all that stuff?
Speaker 1: Just there's more stuff in my console? You could you
Speaker 1: could live for six years, like if you died, like
Speaker 1: in a ten thousand years, if they find your truck console,
Speaker 1: they can piece together your whole live Yeah. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: Isaac's been going through it while I was in the
Speaker 1: gas station. I'm formulating an anthropological sort of theory. This
Speaker 1: must have been a religious ceremony here. No, but just
Speaker 1: like it's a turkey vest, like he had a full
Speaker 1: lawn recorder in that, like all it takes this one
Speaker 1: buddy to be like, what are you carrying there? Boom over? Well,
Speaker 1: And that's what the third episode a lot is about,
Speaker 1: because so I told these stories, like I told the
Speaker 1: whole story of Operation Red Button Part two. The first
Speaker 1: episode was kind of an overview of just under undercover
Speaker 1: work in general, but there was so many small stories
Speaker 1: that were still left that were just intriguing all on
Speaker 1: their own, that the third episode is going to be
Speaker 1: a lot of just like real unique, you know, clipped
Speaker 1: out stories of when wild stuff happened and he got
Speaker 1: out of stuff because that's what's so interesting to me.
Speaker 1: And he was just he was It takes a lot
Speaker 1: of confidence. And Artist said that, and and after I
Speaker 1: interviewed him, and after I've done spent so much time
Speaker 1: on this. I see what he means, Like you can't
Speaker 1: hesitate when when someone does something, you just have to react,
Speaker 1: and most people will bow to confidence. I mean unfortunately
Speaker 1: or fortunately I don't know. But like if if you
Speaker 1: say you're Art Steward, I know you. You were my
Speaker 1: archery coach back at that that college and he's just like,
Speaker 1: you got me mixed up with somebody? Was that guy
Speaker 1: good looking and rich? And he's like, well he was
Speaker 1: good looking, it wasn't rich. Well it wasn't me because
Speaker 1: I'm good looking and rich. I mean, just just not
Speaker 1: miss a beat, just like this is who I am. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all the good an arcs I've ever worked with all
Speaker 1: head sense as of humor, and we're just in the
Speaker 1: gift of gab. Yeah, you can just go with the flow,
Speaker 1: talk your way through anything kind of like that would
Speaker 1: be though, that to constantly deceive people, I think would
Speaker 1: be such a difficult, a difficult thing, like to go
Speaker 1: back to your family and to have a habit of
Speaker 1: deceiving people all day long and then have to go
Speaker 1: back to your family and be hard. Have you ever
Speaker 1: done this? Uh? I'll often pick up a word or
Speaker 1: phrase in my vocabulary ironically, Like I heard somebody call
Speaker 1: somebody guy one time, and I felt like it was
Speaker 1: the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard, Like, yeah, no problem, guy,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that sounds weird. So I started would say,
Speaker 1: well it is now because I started saying it ironically,
Speaker 1: and then at some point in time I just woke
Speaker 1: up and realized that it had crept into my lexicon.
Speaker 1: And now I say guy and I think in the
Speaker 1: same way. In the same way, you have these guys
Speaker 1: who like creep into this lifestyle and then they wake
Speaker 1: up some day and they're like, am I bob am I?
Speaker 1: You know, like, I don't know that would be a
Speaker 1: weird experience because it's not a a there's not like
Speaker 1: a turning point. It's just a series of decisions and
Speaker 1: a series of experiences. And then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like, man, I'm in pretty deep. I've been doing
Speaker 1: this for fifteen months. Yeah, am I into poaching? Now?
Speaker 1: Am I a poacher? Now? I want to come clean
Speaker 1: about an actual fear I have. I have a fear
Speaker 1: that I'll also want to hear what you think Elon
Speaker 1: Musk could should Twitter go ahead, We'll talk about that
Speaker 1: at the end. That's a spoiler alert. Missy has some
Speaker 1: great advice for Elon Musk, so he'll hear it. I
Speaker 1: have a major fear that one day I will be
Speaker 1: called on to do undercover work. This is like, actually
Speaker 1: has come up in my my thought life a lot,
Speaker 1: like what if I'm called on to do undercover work
Speaker 1: and I have to break the law to do it,
Speaker 1: Like if the US government flies a chopper in here
Speaker 1: in the dark exactly knocks on our door, and the
Speaker 1: like rambo, what if they have what if they have
Speaker 1: like an activation word like like pineapple, and like all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you turn into some different Okay, carry on.
Speaker 1: My concern is and every time I hear Britt talk
Speaker 1: about his undercover work, I'm always concerned that this is
Speaker 1: going to happen to him as well, that I will
Speaker 1: be asked to do illegal things but never tell anyone,
Speaker 1: and there's only one person that knows and exactly, and
Speaker 1: there's only one person that knows, and that person is
Speaker 1: either dirty or it gets killed, and so no one
Speaker 1: knows that I'm actually innocent, that I'm just following orders.
Speaker 1: This is a really specific fear. It is it is
Speaker 1: it's it's because I think I've I've seen too many
Speaker 1: talk about this. So that movie about this, Uh, we
Speaker 1: talked about it. We talked about it. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a very specific fear because it has shown up
Speaker 1: in movies and what happens if that person like their
Speaker 1: families like, wait, you've lived this double life and you're like, no, actually,
Speaker 1: I didn't live this double life when I was with you.
Speaker 1: I was honest. And when it's just interesting, like what happens,
Speaker 1: well urt RT. And this wasn't on the podcast. It
Speaker 1: was just too much. But one time r T was
Speaker 1: with the guys in Ohio and they planned to spur
Speaker 1: the moment trip way deep into West Virginia and he
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to cross state lines or that wasn't a
Speaker 1: part of the plan because you're going into another jurisdiction
Speaker 1: all this. And he calls his boss and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: they want to go to West Virginia and I kind
Speaker 1: of I have to go with him. And he was
Speaker 1: like okay, and and and so only the boss was
Speaker 1: in RT were the only ones who knew he was
Speaker 1: over there, and and he said it was a it
Speaker 1: was kind of a it was more to the story.
Speaker 1: But it was an unnerving thing to be in West
Speaker 1: Virginia and he didn't even know where it was. Um,
Speaker 1: this is the exact scenario that I would be afraid.
Speaker 1: And if his boss is dirty or dies, he's tub yes,
Speaker 1: if he gets a restid West Virginia. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: in all fairness, there are any number of ways that
Speaker 1: he could be in trouble, not just actually was surprised
Speaker 1: at how much he said that he was concerned about
Speaker 1: the legal ramifications of what he was doing. The murder plot, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the murder plot, but but just in general, like he
Speaker 1: was constantly walking the line of him going him getting
Speaker 1: in trouble for what he was doing. Like he like
Speaker 1: hasn't been on the podcast yet about when they robbed
Speaker 1: the gas station. M h yeah, and and he needed
Speaker 1: to video that and declare that he didn't know that
Speaker 1: that was going to happen because if it went to court,
Speaker 1: they might say this guy's critically put him in jail.
Speaker 1: So like, because I asked him, I said, is there
Speaker 1: legal ramifications for you? And he said, oh, every day,
Speaker 1: he said, I had to really watch myself everything I
Speaker 1: did to make sure so you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: at risk. There's a psychological study that where they they
Speaker 1: basically told people to do something mean, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the real short version of it, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. And and they found that people were
Speaker 1: willing to go very far doing terrible things as long
Speaker 1: as someone in charge told him to do it. The
Speaker 1: study was that they had they were told they were
Speaker 1: uh being paid to do a study. They thought they
Speaker 1: were not the subject. They thought they were just participating
Speaker 1: in it, and the subject was answering questions and every
Speaker 1: time they got a question wrong, they had to administer
Speaker 1: a shock. Every time they got it wrong, it would
Speaker 1: go up and to the point that's what they were told.
Speaker 1: That what they were told, to the point where the
Speaker 1: fake subject is complaining of like heart pain or like
Speaker 1: please stop, I don't want to do this anymore. And
Speaker 1: and the test they just came to it, yeah, kept
Speaker 1: nailing it, and they found that people were as long
Speaker 1: as they felt authorized, and that they were willing to
Speaker 1: go a lot further than than what you would be
Speaker 1: comfortable with. I'd like to read you to you guys
Speaker 1: a email that I got and I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: the name, so it's it's gonna be fun. But I
Speaker 1: got this email. I shared this with RT and he
Speaker 1: he was really thrilled about this. But this guy says,
Speaker 1: I was recently listening to episode seventy eight of the
Speaker 1: Bargaryse podcast Secret Agent Man, and found myself overwhelmed with
Speaker 1: emotion and even moved to tears. My father is under
Speaker 1: is a retired undercover narcotics agent. For nearly the first
Speaker 1: half of my life, I hardly saw him and certainly
Speaker 1: didn't know him. I grew up feeling fatherless all the while.
Speaker 1: My father was home most nights and even took me
Speaker 1: to school in the morning, but that was the extent
Speaker 1: of our relationship. I knew of his career and idolized
Speaker 1: him for for it, making up that he was a
Speaker 1: superhero and his duty was more important than my life.
Speaker 1: Coming of age, I soon began to resent in neglect,
Speaker 1: resent his neglect and lack of relationship, And when when
Speaker 1: he retired, he came home and pretended as if he
Speaker 1: had always been home, and my resentment grew you with me.
Speaker 1: Almost two decades later, after years of therapy, I've learned
Speaker 1: to accept him and no he did the best he
Speaker 1: could with no malice des the abandonment I felt. Coming
Speaker 1: back to Clay's interview with RT, I found myself in
Speaker 1: tears listening to ARTI's interpersonal struggle with coming to terms
Speaker 1: with his double life, even lamenting if given the choice,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't take make the same decision. This prompted me
Speaker 1: to ask my own father about his experience, something that's
Speaker 1: borderline taboo. And my family and he he shares what
Speaker 1: he wants to, but we don't ask questions unprompted. Asking
Speaker 1: him if he struggled with coming home after being an
Speaker 1: undercover agent took an immense amount of courage. His response
Speaker 1: was similar to urt s, and we were able to
Speaker 1: have the most honest conversation we've ever had. For the
Speaker 1: first time, he accepted his life was his work and
Speaker 1: not us, and he wasn't around for me and my siblings.
Speaker 1: He accepted how difficult he was to live with and
Speaker 1: how hard it was to live a double life, similar
Speaker 1: to Artie's experience mentioned in the interview. At the end
Speaker 1: of the conversation, I was able to tell him with
Speaker 1: all honesty how proud I was to be his son,
Speaker 1: something I've never expressed nor felt until very recent I
Speaker 1: never expected the hunting podcast would mend a lifelong wound
Speaker 1: I've carried for over thirty years. Wow, man, that's a
Speaker 1: big deal. Yeah, I thought so, really really great, great feedback. Interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes sometimes people have a calling that's um
Speaker 1: so important. You know that it that the bad that
Speaker 1: it creates. You know, they've off said it, you know.
Speaker 1: Uh so you know, where would we be without these
Speaker 1: undercover guys. You know, it's pretty important that we've got
Speaker 1: people that have the courage to do that. So anyway,
Speaker 1: um sacrifice to the family at times. Yeah, yeah, everything,
Speaker 1: everything does come with a cost. I mean, but you know,
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that you could have
Speaker 1: any kind of job and you know, same thing. It
Speaker 1: happens all the time, you know, if you're a workaholic,
Speaker 1: same thing. Yeah, but the motive is different, you know,
Speaker 1: the undercover guys helping our society, the workaholics helping its
Speaker 1: checking a camp. Isaac, did you have a favorite part?
Speaker 1: I didn't specifically ask you yet what stood out to you? Man?
Speaker 1: I think I think I said the big things the
Speaker 1: idea of like just the happenstance of how many times
Speaker 1: he could have been found out and wasn't, And then
Speaker 1: the idea of just morphing into someone else. That's I
Speaker 1: think kind of an insidious and scary concept. And then
Speaker 1: like what does it look like to detox from that,
Speaker 1: Like when you're done, Like, how do you like remember
Speaker 1: the old RT? I think that's pretty fascinating. Um. I
Speaker 1: was struck in this by how cavalier and quick to
Speaker 1: trust the targets were. Yeah. Um, I just feel like
Speaker 1: I would be really cag if I was like operating
Speaker 1: in this large criminal activity and then like you meet
Speaker 1: a new guy and you're like, what are you doing Thursday?
Speaker 1: But it's that I can see how that would seem
Speaker 1: that way. I think there's a way to think about
Speaker 1: it though, that these guys probably didn't think what they
Speaker 1: were doing was that bad. Probably that's what that's what
Speaker 1: we learned. We talked about Louis Dell and Charlie from everybody,
Speaker 1: it's like it just in there, in that part of
Speaker 1: the world, and that time it was just like this
Speaker 1: really wasn't that big of a deal. That's what they thought.
Speaker 1: And then and then at that time there weren't undercover agents. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that in Ohio, so like this was like
Speaker 1: what years was it? Nine? And ninety six. Because when
Speaker 1: all this went down, Misty, do you uh so everybody
Speaker 1: knows that Elon Musk has bought Twitter. Misty, what what
Speaker 1: advice would you have for him? Missy? How many people
Speaker 1: do you think you've hired in your lifetime? How many
Speaker 1: people have I hired? I mean right now I have people.
Speaker 1: Misty knows what it's like to run a big company,
Speaker 1: Fire Global Company, know this that what's the problem here
Speaker 1: is that Clay and I are driving to Chep's basketball game,
Speaker 1: and just the two of us in the car, I
Speaker 1: just started spouting out what I you know, what I
Speaker 1: feel like Elon Musk is doing. And I have a
Speaker 1: little mercy towards him because he reminds me a lot
Speaker 1: of some of my students. Was a principal for nine
Speaker 1: years of our Our school had at that time se
Speaker 1: male population. That's a big practically a boys school, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't designed to be that way, but that that's
Speaker 1: what we got. And the way Elon Musk is behaving
Speaker 1: right now reminds me a little bit of a lot
Speaker 1: of boys who have been sent to my office. And
Speaker 1: I was just telling him Clay, like I kind of
Speaker 1: I have the same field for Elon Musk that I
Speaker 1: have for the boys that get sent to my office,
Speaker 1: like you know you you see of his income, of
Speaker 1: Twitter's income is dependent on advertising dollars, and he's kind
Speaker 1: of self destructing right now where all of that money
Speaker 1: is being pulled. And there's this part of Elon must
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, guys, don't leave, you could trust me.
Speaker 1: He writes this letter to all that donors saying, give
Speaker 1: me a chance, let me prove to you. But then
Speaker 1: the other part of Elon Musk is like, has this
Speaker 1: crowd of people cheering for him, and he's like I
Speaker 1: kind of like that attention, and so he like impulsively
Speaker 1: does things to respond on to that crowd, and it's
Speaker 1: it's just total self destruction. So what I want to
Speaker 1: tell him is, Elon, lock yourself in a room, get
Speaker 1: a couple of advisors that you really trust. Slow this down.
Speaker 1: Let's slow this down a little bit. And they're losing
Speaker 1: four million dollars a day. What he said, it's like,
Speaker 1: don't say the company's going bankrupt, don't just maybe don't
Speaker 1: be don't get on Twitter right now. It's I don't
Speaker 1: have really deep I don't have deep things. It's just
Speaker 1: just just kind of a general feeling of like, ah, buddy, yeah,
Speaker 1: just come on, guy, you got this because, like you see,
Speaker 1: he kind of wants to be When I when I
Speaker 1: acquired Bare Hunting Magazine in the Midsummer point third team,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the same thing. I was advised change
Speaker 1: a thing for at least a year, like, don't even
Speaker 1: let people know hands, Yes, Clyde Nukele, did you keep
Speaker 1: it that way for a year? Pretty much? He did?
Speaker 1: He did. I had I had an editor that was
Speaker 1: working that stayed on the magazine for two years. He
Speaker 1: was doing a job that I actually did his job,
Speaker 1: but he was getting the credit for just like I
Speaker 1: kept his face into magazine. I pretty much kept things
Speaker 1: the same. That's what I would if Ellen were here,
Speaker 1: which you know, he might be on the Burglary's Render
Speaker 1: one day. Um Bill Clinton too, I want Bill Clinton,
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, Gary nuclem Uh, who else? Who else could
Speaker 1: be in there? I have advice for all these people.
Speaker 1: Please include me on this room. I mean I would
Speaker 1: need all of you. We'd have to get three more mikes.
Speaker 1: Can you work that down? I said, I'll just sit out,
Speaker 1: just take pictures out of I have real strong feelings
Speaker 1: about Ellen, and I would say, let the guy do
Speaker 1: whatever he thinks is right. I mean, you look at
Speaker 1: his net worth. Have you ever looked at his net work?
Speaker 1: Do you see how much it's declined end in the
Speaker 1: last couple week. Hey, he's taking that risk in the end,
Speaker 1: he'll get it back. Misty said that he has uh
Speaker 1: and maybe other people have said I just heard Misty said.
Speaker 1: I get most of my information from life from Misty.
Speaker 1: It's true. I think I told him not to change
Speaker 1: anything about h Ellen has a like like Alex Hanald
Speaker 1: who climbs free climbs, and he has this incredible ability
Speaker 1: to deal with danger, like an unusual amount lack of
Speaker 1: ability to have fear risk averse risk. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's the opposite. It's Elon Musk. She like, Hey, if
Speaker 1: he doesn't go south, it's no big deal. It's it's
Speaker 1: really like a phenomenon on teenage boys where they have
Speaker 1: risk taking behavior that they don't have the the ability to.
Speaker 1: They don't have developed a fully developed prefrontal cortex, and
Speaker 1: so they and not just teenage. It should be good
Speaker 1: by twenty one, but I don't know. He might have
Speaker 1: done some things. You know, the brain is is a
Speaker 1: dynamic thing, and so people take they take risk without
Speaker 1: calculating the cost. It's it's why a lot of people
Speaker 1: end up just aging out of out of crime and
Speaker 1: drug use because they get that prefrontal cortex. It's an
Speaker 1: amazing thing. It helps you kind of calculate risk. So
Speaker 1: I just think his and that's been successful for him,
Speaker 1: Like that's that has been a massive point of success
Speaker 1: for him. So he takes bigger and bigger risk. The
Speaker 1: problem is at some point in Gosh, I hope everything's
Speaker 1: okay with Alex Handld too, because I kind of like him.
Speaker 1: At some point Clinton, Alex Handld, Elon Musk, Alex Handld
Speaker 1: is gonna die from climbing. It makes me so nervous
Speaker 1: that one day he's going to take a risk that
Speaker 1: he can't. It's it's like he's going to take the
Speaker 1: one just too far. Yeah, But I think the people
Speaker 1: like that, and this may pour it over to Elon
Speaker 1: Musk as well. It's like I can't not. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: there's something inside of me that drives me to do this.
Speaker 1: But when you look at all and it's it's to
Speaker 1: be nipp icky. It's free soloing. Um, the free climbing.
Speaker 1: Free climbing is like there's aid climbing, which was like
Speaker 1: traditional alpinism, where are you're using all the gear to
Speaker 1: get out free climb. Free climbing is when you just climb.
Speaker 1: You know you can use safety gear, but you use
Speaker 1: your body to get up the rock. And then free
Speaker 1: soloing is no safety gear climbing climbing. I just think
Speaker 1: that it's it's like a risk like these guys who
Speaker 1: take these big risks can be very successful and then
Speaker 1: and though that risk taking behavior, it's We had a
Speaker 1: separate conversation that I won't quote here, but where I
Speaker 1: was I was saying like sometimes sometimes life rewards those
Speaker 1: risk takers huge and and he has been rewarded to hugely,
Speaker 1: and it's clear he's there's no way he could do
Speaker 1: what he's doing. He really very much reminds me of
Speaker 1: some students I've had in my in my office who
Speaker 1: are brilliant, who have a very sharp minds. Emerald in
Speaker 1: South Africa reminds me a lot of when I bought
Speaker 1: Izzie off Craigslist. It was a big gamble fired big
Speaker 1: took everything I had cut to me. He said I
Speaker 1: was crazy but paid off big and look at you now, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I mean, now, hey, Dad, tell us about I
Speaker 1: meant to do this right at the beginning. This is
Speaker 1: the most exciting thing. So you were a little bit
Speaker 1: younger than Bill Clinton. How much younger? Two years? So
Speaker 1: he was a sophomore. When he was a senior, he
Speaker 1: went to Hot Springs High Right, My sister graduated with him.
Speaker 1: So Sandy, she was in the class with him. Over
Speaker 1: the years, has gone to high school reunions. Even when
Speaker 1: he was right, he would invite his high school senior
Speaker 1: class too. The Governor's mansion than the d C. When
Speaker 1: he had a big event, he invited his senior class
Speaker 1: to come. Yeah. So you what do you remember about
Speaker 1: Clinton in high school? Well, you know, in high schoo cool.
Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's it's really interesting to me to
Speaker 1: look at high school because it's all like peer groups.
Speaker 1: Everybody's developing inside and you're looking at the cool guys,
Speaker 1: the hoods, you know, different groups of people, and he
Speaker 1: he had if you're my major, we had we had
Speaker 1: hoodlums in hoods. Yeah, probably use that term when he
Speaker 1: when he was talking about Louis Dell Up on the
Speaker 1: sky left that a couple of hoodlums coming. These guys.
Speaker 1: These guys smoked, you know in my so anyway, Bill was.
Speaker 1: I didn't know Bill. I mean, you know, we would
Speaker 1: speak maybe in the hallway. Hello, we're like his friends. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: not even close. He wasn't my kind of guy. Man.
Speaker 1: He was too smart. I mean he played you know,
Speaker 1: he playing the band. He was just a neat guy,
Speaker 1: dressed neat. Everybody liked him. He went to church. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he was just he wouldn't into an elite
Speaker 1: group of your high school, but you know he he was.
Speaker 1: He was just kind of a neat guy to be
Speaker 1: so smart, you know, and you would have wrecked you.
Speaker 1: You really think you would have recognized that even if
Speaker 1: he hadn't become president. Yeah, yeah, if you just said,
Speaker 1: how you remember Bill Clinton being a successful state farm agent.
Speaker 1: I never thought much about yea, really, I mean when
Speaker 1: did he start coming into Arkansas politics? And you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: I went to HH school that yeah, lieutenant governor. Probably
Speaker 1: in the seventies. So once you graduate high school sixty
Speaker 1: so ten years later you're like Bill Clinton. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, which wasn't surprising. He didn't surprise me. Governor
Speaker 1: didn't surprise me. Yeah, President surprised me. Do you know.
Speaker 1: I I remember when he was running, so I would
Speaker 1: have been like twelve or thirteen years old, and I
Speaker 1: remember walking out of the house with you. You were
Speaker 1: taking us to school, and you were dressed up in
Speaker 1: your suit and tide going to the bank, and I
Speaker 1: just I just remembered the moment when you you laughed
Speaker 1: and you said you said, old Bill Clinton is probably
Speaker 1: gonna be president. Like I could just tell you were
Speaker 1: you were like excited and kind of surprised, and and
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that for some reason, because I was like, huh,
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's gonna be president. I guess that's a big deal.
Speaker 1: And uh and slick slick Willie is that what? Yeah,
Speaker 1: slick Willie, did you ever see him? Not in hele
Speaker 1: h No, No, But you know what, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't that they had it probably isn't true, but I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it could have gone either way. But well,
Speaker 1: if I something happens to me in the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, it's either some of it was either target
Speaker 1: number one or two, heard this podcast or the Clinton's yep,
Speaker 1: but um, nice guy in high school. Yeah, very nice guy,
Speaker 1: very intelligent. And then what I said about you, uh,
Speaker 1: staying clean and sober. True story, true story, unless you
Speaker 1: want to come out now. No, I'm not coming out.
Speaker 1: I mean I was a good dad and trying to
Speaker 1: that was all a lie man. No, No, it was
Speaker 1: kind of unusual too, because when I when I moved
Speaker 1: to this small town that I live in now, a
Speaker 1: lot of the guys my age didn't didn't drink and
Speaker 1: do crazy stuff in high school. And I thought, what
Speaker 1: I mean, in Hot Springs it was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was different. It was very
Speaker 1: different in Hot SPS like and that would have been
Speaker 1: in our world, a big city, yeah, Hot Spring, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: which would have been a town like thirty thousand, which
Speaker 1: was like a metropolis. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, Billy Billy boy,
Speaker 1: and then uh, your mother knew his mother, and we're
Speaker 1: kind of lifelong acquaintances in the town that in Springs.
Speaker 1: Is that about right? Probably? I mean, she she knew,
Speaker 1: she knew. I don't know how close they were. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish you didn't talk. I remember I remember Emmeline
Speaker 1: saying that she I mean, I remember her telling stories
Speaker 1: of seeing ms Clinton like in town and them talking
Speaker 1: them like you know, and and probably she was highlighting
Speaker 1: that because at the time, you know, he was president.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, interesting. And my sister, Um, she's a
Speaker 1: pretty good looking girl. I would I'd call her before
Speaker 1: she had take off the DC. Be careful while you're
Speaker 1: up there. Uh my goodness. M hmm. You can. You
Speaker 1: can cut this true story. It's a nerue story. Well
Speaker 1: you never know. You never know. We were in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Yesterday. We were missing and I were in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Yesterday. You heard it here. First, he's about
Speaker 1: to announce his candidacy for office. Somebody that saw that
Speaker 1: g Q video that I did. People wouldn't notice the
Speaker 1: g Q video, but the breakdown, the breakdown videos that
Speaker 1: you've been seeing on meat Eator Meetators Instagram is a
Speaker 1: spoof off of GQ doing a breakdown of movies and stuff.
Speaker 1: And somebody said when they saw me with a like
Speaker 1: a suit on, that they thought I was running for
Speaker 1: a governor or, you know, they thought I was running
Speaker 1: for political office. And so, but no, that's not true.
Speaker 1: I have one other thought for you. Close this thing down.
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. Uh, under your under Louis Dill
Speaker 1: and Charlie and I can't remember how it worked in
Speaker 1: but I didn't like it that the guy couldn't kill
Speaker 1: a turkey. I mean, you're like going, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: send you out to where you can possibly get killed,
Speaker 1: but you can't kill a turkey. They can kill you,
Speaker 1: but you can't kill a turkey. And I'm going, you know,
Speaker 1: I think there's something wrong with that. I mean, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to just say, go kill all the birds
Speaker 1: in the world, but I mean, you know, shoot the
Speaker 1: bird so well. I don't like that. I think he
Speaker 1: had They had the liberty to be able to do that,
Speaker 1: but I think just the better part of discretion and
Speaker 1: for building the case. Like if they showed up in
Speaker 1: the court and they said target number one killed fifty
Speaker 1: and I killed forty nine, you know, saggeration, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: and I'm the undercover agent. So I think I think
Speaker 1: they felt the freedom too, but they just tried not to.
Speaker 1: But is that true, Brent, That's correct? You know that
Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest challenge you always think
Speaker 1: about the challenges is having an alter alternative, uh no,
Speaker 1: identity and life and everything but they didn't have any
Speaker 1: rules and we did that. That was the hard part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean him shooting a twenty two so he could miss.
Speaker 1: I'm like going, hey man, you got the wrong guy.
Speaker 1: Go get Misty to go undercover doing this. So anyway,
Speaker 1: very good? Ye is that because I can't shoot another thing.
Speaker 1: I was real curious about the sentences. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that intrigues me. You know, Okay, this guy got six months,
Speaker 1: this guy got six years. They didn't go to jail.
Speaker 1: If you want to hear about that, good luck, because
Speaker 1: there is nothing about this on the end of I
Speaker 1: looked it up, and you know what I found was
Speaker 1: Bear Grease Surrender is about I mean the Bear Grease
Speaker 1: podcast was like bam bam bam bambat Operation Red Buttons. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I spent I spent an hour looking for it. I
Speaker 1: finally found one listing on eBay of a September issue
Speaker 1: of Turkey Call. It was just a title and it
Speaker 1: had every article listed and one of the article titles
Speaker 1: was Operation Redbud And there was no photos, there was none,
Speaker 1: nothing online. And I was like, I've got a buddy
Speaker 1: who is big into the history of the n WTF
Speaker 1: Nathaniel Maddox, the guy that I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: do you have the September issue of the Turkey Call?
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, I got this right here on
Speaker 1: the back of my toilet. So he went down to
Speaker 1: his office yesterday or the next day and took pictures
Speaker 1: of the one article. So in the bust they called
Speaker 1: the editor for the Turkey Call up to Ohio that
Speaker 1: day of flew up there because the n WTF had
Speaker 1: provided a ton of money to the Ohio tipline, which
Speaker 1: is how this whole thing got started. So the NWTF
Speaker 1: was helping to fund the tip line that was like, hey,
Speaker 1: so and so was killing whatever and they get a
Speaker 1: reward from the n w TF. So the editor was
Speaker 1: actually there at the busts and wrote an article on it. Interesting,
Speaker 1: none of this is online. Yeah, yeah, So I tasked
Speaker 1: Isaac because what I wanted to do at the end
Speaker 1: of the podcast was to go target number one. Spent
Speaker 1: you know, so much time in jail and how to
Speaker 1: do this and lost is this? And sadly, I'm afraid
Speaker 1: we'd be a little disappointed if we knew what. I
Speaker 1: think that's the reason why, or partially I bet they
Speaker 1: got off. I don't know, there's a lot I've heard.
Speaker 1: I have heard people like off the record, and I
Speaker 1: can't even remember exactly who told me this. But when
Speaker 1: you're when you're a the judge and you hear a
Speaker 1: wildlife case, sometimes it doesn't translate too as significant. Achromemost like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's not a real crime. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's a judge's fault, but I'm just saying the system
Speaker 1: is not geared to just fry people for wildlife crimes.
Speaker 1: And uh and you know, to those of us on
Speaker 1: this side of it that love wildlife wanted, like are
Speaker 1: playing this game, this conservation game, Like we see how
Speaker 1: serious it is. But when they're the next guy is
Speaker 1: a guy that murdered somebody, it's like it's a little
Speaker 1: bit you know, I kind of agree with that, but
Speaker 1: you know, you you need your law strong enough to
Speaker 1: stop other people from participating and where And it's like,
Speaker 1: how do you price your product? Well, price it as
Speaker 1: high as you can until it quits selling, and back
Speaker 1: off a little bit, you know. So when Louis Dell
Speaker 1: and Charlie and Stony Edwards, Charlie's son told me this
Speaker 1: when Louis Dell or he's the one that brought it
Speaker 1: to my attention. When Louis Dell and Charlie were doing
Speaker 1: what they were doing back in the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: literally it was like a misdemeanor ticket, like if you
Speaker 1: killed the turkey, got caught killing turkey, which they did
Speaker 1: a couple of times, pay a three fine, go to
Speaker 1: the courthouse, pay the money, go back and kill another one.
Speaker 1: You know. Charlie said, well, it's cost me about forty
Speaker 1: cents a bird because he got caught one time, but
Speaker 1: all the ones he killed, he divided the amount of
Speaker 1: birds he'd killed to the ticket, and so it literally
Speaker 1: was like a game. It wasn't the punishment today, it's
Speaker 1: not like that they are taking vehicles. And RT did
Speaker 1: say that one of the guys had his vehicle taken away,
Speaker 1: put a lean on his house till the fines were paid.
Speaker 1: You know, there was some significant stuff. But yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the yeah, because it's basically he risked his life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that that he risked his life forty yeah. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, in the end, you know what I want
Speaker 1: to say is that, you know, we're all massively supportive
Speaker 1: of law enforcement. What these guys are doing. That's sacrifice
Speaker 1: that there that they're that they're given to to protect
Speaker 1: our wildlife and our right to hunt and are basically
Speaker 1: the integrity of the whole system. So when you go
Speaker 1: out and don't commit a crime and have a good
Speaker 1: hunt and take an animal, that is as much a
Speaker 1: part of the whole system is our t going undercover
Speaker 1: and busting these guys. And you know, it's like to me,
Speaker 1: it's like one big thing. We gotta have it. So
Speaker 1: thanks Print for being after Clay all these years busted. Well,
Speaker 1: it's great to have the Render crew back together. Pleasure
Speaker 1: to speak with you all of you. Um hey met
Speaker 1: either Metior Black Friday sales almost done. Hey, we haven't
Speaker 1: addressed that. It's almost Thanksgiving. People are listening to this
Speaker 1: on the day that comes out. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: Enjoy your family, be thankful. Andy Brown says, Thanksgiving Day,
Speaker 1: he's a great day to hunt always. It's the opener
Speaker 1: for the South Sentner Ducks in Missouri. Say that again,
Speaker 1: it's the opener for the South Swner Ducks Missouri. Okay, Hey,
Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon would have been a good day to hunt.
Speaker 1: I saw more deer driving from the highways. Let me
Speaker 1: to my house. At deer everywhere. It was a good
Speaker 1: day to hunt. He killed one yesterday. I killed the
Speaker 1: duck yesterday. And one of my uh good friends from
Speaker 1: Rock I visited with him this week and he's a
Speaker 1: great hunter, and uh, he said, he talked about you.
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, I'd like to make clay sometime. And
Speaker 1: he said, by the way, Monday, I forget what day
Speaker 1: this was, he said, is the red moon. He said
Speaker 1: that should be the best day of the old year
Speaker 1: to hunt, the red moon, Monday or Tuesday of this
Speaker 1: last week blood moon. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty too.
Speaker 1: It was. It was pretty amazing. The kids and I
Speaker 1: went out and looked at it and we had a
Speaker 1: really good view of it, and it was it was beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's snow ridiculous talking about yeah tonight so much. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to the Burgaris Podcast.