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Speaker 1: My name is Clay and Nukeleman. This is a production

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Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,

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Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.

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Speaker 1: It's been a long run since I've seen you guys

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Speaker 1: on the Bear Grease Render. It's true. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: a this is a monumental day for us. We have

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Speaker 1: the poor life of the city, the the the o

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Speaker 1: G original Gangster Bear Grease Render crew here today. I

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Speaker 1: have to my left my lovely wife, Missy Nukam. Welcome back, Misty.

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Speaker 1: Good to be here supporting her first, like Parka, actually

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Speaker 1: Clay's first. Like when I'm really cold, I put on

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Speaker 1: Clay's really really big puffy one. So you guys, the

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Speaker 1: last time we saw I saw you was before I

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Speaker 1: went to Alaska in September, because you guys did a

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Speaker 1: render without me on when I was in Alaska. And

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Speaker 1: then the next time we did a render. Um I

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Speaker 1: believe no, no, we did multiple renders, and I've been

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Speaker 1: traveling and so you guys have been out of the

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Speaker 1: out of the picture for a little while. It's like

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Speaker 1: our vacation time. You remember when I asked Artie Stewart,

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Speaker 1: if poachers are jealous, I'm gonna do do. Does the

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Speaker 1: Render crew get jealous? No, not, Brent, Okay, I think

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Speaker 1: it's envious or envy. Jealousy is when you are concerned

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Speaker 1: that someone's gonna steal what you have, and envyous when

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Speaker 1: you want what some else has. It's a good distinction.

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Speaker 1: That is a good distinction. Gary and I were just

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Speaker 1: talking about the Render you had with all the folks

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Speaker 1: from back home. That was a pretty good That was incredible.

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Speaker 1: Feedback from the Render with Scott Andy, Steve Phillips, Randy Steppe,

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Speaker 1: coy House, Gary Nukem, Yeah, that was a good one.

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Speaker 1: That was a really good I really enjoyed the one

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Speaker 1: with James Lawrence and yes, that was I would have

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Speaker 1: Gerald Brewer on this podcast every week. Feed drive up here.

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Speaker 1: I have so many good Jail Brewer stories. We need

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Speaker 1: to He got a head of hair like a movie star.

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Speaker 1: So missies to my left and then Brent Reeves, Who's

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Speaker 1: who's I've got. We've got a little dialogue to have together, Brent, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: Thank you to your left, Josh Lambridge Pillmaker, Josh. Good

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Speaker 1: to be back to see you back in the saddle.

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Speaker 1: Great to see you. To Josh's left, Isaac Neil, I'm

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Speaker 1: just happy to be invited to the user of the

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Speaker 1: Burgers podcast. Got a nice mustache right now too. My

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Speaker 1: wife said, uh, why don't you shave your beard and

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Speaker 1: do a mustache? And I said, yes, ma'am. Did she

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Speaker 1: mean a food mancho Okay, so I had not shaved

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Speaker 1: because she might not have that's a different thing. So

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Speaker 1: I haven't shaved in eleven years at all, like anything

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Speaker 1: at all. And so I shaved, and as I was going,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, just like, you know, the cop mustache,

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Speaker 1: the dad mustache, just topp And then I started shaving.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, I don't know, so I just

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Speaker 1: kind of stopped. It wasn't even like the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the jaw foo man choose, just like That's when it

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Speaker 1: occurred to me. And I was like, well, i'll just

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Speaker 1: find out, Like she's getting home in an hour. And

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Speaker 1: so she came home and she's like, yeah, that's that's good,

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Speaker 1: that's acceptable. Okay, Okay, we need to probably come back

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Speaker 1: to talking about facial hair and that. Yeah after, just

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Speaker 1: after you introduce our last person, because we need to

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Speaker 1: talk about your most recent mediator video. Okay, So, into

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Speaker 1: Isaac's left is Gary Believer Nukem, who your name came

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Speaker 1: up on the podcast this week unannounced. You heard that.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if you had approved of that or not.

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Speaker 1: That was okay, okay, I wouldn't pretty notorious with that

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Speaker 1: with my buddies over the years. Good, well, good as

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Speaker 1: I did it, I was like, I think it'd be

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Speaker 1: cool with this. So, uh, Brent Reeves, your career kind

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Speaker 1: of is that a forking road? I guess so is

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Speaker 1: your freedom? Uh? So, how how did you feel, um

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Speaker 1: now that your coversman busted? Has it been efficiently busted? Well?

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Speaker 1: I mean I've called you out NonStop on this podcast

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Speaker 1: for being an undercover agent or man. You can say anything.

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Speaker 1: You can say a rooster dip snuff, but if you

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Speaker 1: don't see a snuff can under his wing is still

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Speaker 1: ain't true. So am I right? I'm still piecing all

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Speaker 1: that together in my brain. I I feel like the

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Speaker 1: big difference is Clay is saying I saw the snuff

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Speaker 1: can yeah, yeah, I saw the snuff. Can well it

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Speaker 1: remains to be seen. Okay, okay, just keeping right if

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Speaker 1: that's what you're doing. I never stopped. Okay, that's in opinion.

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Speaker 1: I never started perfectly doing wrong. I mean, everybody makes

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Speaker 1: a mistake it right now? Then well wait, can I

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Speaker 1: just can I just say, did you check his hat

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Speaker 1: for a wire? Yeah? Maybe, Britain, I think you're the

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Speaker 1: one where in the wire take your shirt off? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And that was that on this podcast. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the last one. I want to say

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Speaker 1: the full story of that one is on the next

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Speaker 1: because we're doing a full three episodes with our t

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Speaker 1: It's uh, I think that story is on the next one,

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Speaker 1: but I can't. But I think I told you all

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Speaker 1: about those anyway. Yeah, I don't remember that part. Okay.

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Speaker 1: There's a story of Urt being accused of wearing a wire. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he does. He has a very wise moved in a

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Speaker 1: in a script change. Humans have scripts of how they

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Speaker 1: interact with one another. He does a script change. So

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Speaker 1: you guys actually just let the black panther out of

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Speaker 1: the bag. Hey, let me say something. I was about

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Speaker 1: to challenge Brent to do the same thing to prove it,

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Speaker 1: thinking that I heard on the podcast, but I just

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Speaker 1: heard you say it, and next week when everyone hears

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Speaker 1: what RTI Stewart does the script change. I think it'd

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Speaker 1: be worthwhile to think Misty almost challenged Brent to do

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and I think I'll make it boy laugh,

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Speaker 1: especially because Brient would have no idea what I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: and for me to just say that, So Brent Brett

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Speaker 1: used to work undercover for you know people, quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: And I mean, what a great cover would it be

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Speaker 1: to say I used to work undercover, but don't anymore,

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Speaker 1: and then to stay this long inside of it. So

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Speaker 1: you used to do undercover narcotics for how long a

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Speaker 1: period of your life? About sixteen years? Sixteen years, that's

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Speaker 1: a long time. It was a long time. How long

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Speaker 1: did you What was the longest you ever stayed undercover? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Probably I'm gonnaant to guess about four or five months

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Speaker 1: at a time. We usually could get it done in

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Speaker 1: that length of time. Yeah, it was. It was drug stuff.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you're not. I mean you're not. Once you

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Speaker 1: build a once you build a case, you get two

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Speaker 1: or three buys on somebody, it took longer to get

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Speaker 1: in than it did to actually do it, so and

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Speaker 1: what I I should probably explain it took longer. Liking

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Speaker 1: the podcast, Artie talked about developing the social stuff. Well,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't any money exchanging hands and when when you're

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Speaker 1: hunting illegal turkeys, but with the idea that somebody's gonna

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Speaker 1: get paid if they get one sliver of Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think I can trust this guy. Dead presidents will get

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Speaker 1: you into some place that you normally couldn't go. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know money, you're flash enough money, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've even I think I told the tale on here.

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Speaker 1: One time I had an informant that went up knocked

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Speaker 1: on the door, and it's all recording, right, and the

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Speaker 1: guy comes out and he says his name wasn't Bob,

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Speaker 1: but I'll say, He'll say, Bob, I know you're working

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Speaker 1: for the police, but you get that money in your hand,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna sell it to you. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of the motivation for that because the money man. But

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Speaker 1: I mean it's like what goods might do you when

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Speaker 1: you're in jail. Well he I mean he said I know.

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Speaker 1: When he said I know, he was just he was gambling.

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Speaker 1: He was gambling and he wasn't, but he wanted him

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Speaker 1: to know that. You know, I know in the past

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Speaker 1: you have been an informant, but this person also had

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Speaker 1: a drug problem and this guy knew it. So up

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Speaker 1: until the time he was working for us, he was

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Speaker 1: probably buying from this guy. Okay, I understand. I was

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Speaker 1: thinking it was you you went to the door. It

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Speaker 1: was an informant one for you that particular time. Was

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Speaker 1: was an informant that did it. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you moved into a play a lot of the techniques

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Speaker 1: and stuff that he was using. I did the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You moved into a place and you worked there, and

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Speaker 1: you hang out in the places where those places those

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Speaker 1: folks are, and you know, you develop a rapport with them. Now,

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Speaker 1: it was it was easy because I never once had

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Speaker 1: any inclination of like or affection for any of the

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Speaker 1: folks that I was dealing with. And it's it's easy

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Speaker 1: to see how because you're just that perfect. Well, he

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Speaker 1: they wasn't killing turkeys, you know they were. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were spreading cocaine and meth and feed amine and Harry,

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Speaker 1: we don't know whatever it was that we were targeting.

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Speaker 1: That's what they were putting in the community. So it

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Speaker 1: was I got a lot of satisfaction from doing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you never had that, like they talked in this

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Speaker 1: podcast about that phenomenon where you actually, you know, develop

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Speaker 1: closeness to you never had that int r Twe did

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Speaker 1: some undercovered narcotic work. This was on the podcast, and

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Speaker 1: he said he hated it just because it was so rough,

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Speaker 1: like buying drugs, you know, there's it was just rough

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Speaker 1: people all the way around, and and in the poaching

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Speaker 1: rings he was in, it was a lot of rough people,

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Speaker 1: but it was a different crowd of people, and he

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Speaker 1: was involved in something that he was passionate about. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like a narcotics guy is going to be

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Speaker 1: passionate about hopefully not passionate about narc automn wanting to

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Speaker 1: get the illegal sale of him off the ground, you

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Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So there, it was just a

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Speaker 1: different it was a different world. Well I don't, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't that's kind of not true. It was absolutely

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Speaker 1: my goal every day I went to work to get

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Speaker 1: as much as I could off the street. We remember

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Speaker 1: one year in particular, we got an award from then

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Speaker 1: Governor Huckabee. For every one dollar of money that we

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Speaker 1: spent out of our budget, we got three dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of drugs for a year off the street at the

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Speaker 1: end of the year. When we tell you that what

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Speaker 1: we spent, Yeah, absolutely well. And I wasn't saying that

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Speaker 1: you guys didn't like doing what you're doing. I was

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Speaker 1: just saying you weren't like arties passionate about turkey hunting.

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Speaker 1: He stopped in turkey poachers, you guys, that That was

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Speaker 1: my point. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was interesting. It was it was hard, It was

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Speaker 1: scary at times. It was probably the best part of

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Speaker 1: my career and the worst part from my home life.

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Speaker 1: But it was. It was eventful. Can you tell us

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Speaker 1: the story of when your life was threatened or you

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Speaker 1: were scared, or there was something like your cover was busted?

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Speaker 1: Anything entertain Did you ever have your cover busting? No? Um,

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Speaker 1: I didn't. And then we were really careful about that.

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Speaker 1: We worked in we tried. That's reason not moved, you know,

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Speaker 1: different places. Was once you get known in the area,

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Speaker 1: once the bust out it comes when you make all

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Speaker 1: the cases that you can make in an area and

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Speaker 1: you get and you arrest everybody. It was just like

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Speaker 1: r T. Then you gotta go to court for the

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Speaker 1: ones that don't want them plead guilty, you know, and

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Speaker 1: make a deal. And I don't want anybody to think

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Speaker 1: that I ain't making a deal, you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: selling meth and feed amine or cocaine or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: The schedule the drugs that follow in the category of

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Speaker 1: what they call us a class y, which in Arkansas

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Speaker 1: was punishable from ten to forty to life in prison.

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Speaker 1: They wasn't taking who wasn't getting somebody that was selling

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Speaker 1: you know, ounces and pounds of meth and feed amine

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Speaker 1: and giving them five years in the penitentiary and you know,

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Speaker 1: probation they were pleading to, you know, twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: thirty years in prison. You can go on the court,

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Speaker 1: you know. I had there was one guy in particular

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Speaker 1: then in uh South Arkansas and Union County, and I

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Speaker 1: had bought from him hand to hand, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: five or six times. And that was one that it

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Speaker 1: took about not about three months to do, I guess.

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Speaker 1: And I finally got to deal with him direct and

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Speaker 1: he was gonna they were going to do the discredit

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Speaker 1: the officer thing, you know what art he was saying,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's what they that's really the only game.

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Speaker 1: When they got you know, photo and video evidence and

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Speaker 1: a hand to hand by from a police officer, and

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Speaker 1: they offered him, the prosecutor offered him twenty five years

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Speaker 1: uh indepenitentiary to plead guilt, and he's like no, he said, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking I'm going to court. And he went to

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Speaker 1: court and they charged him with two counts and he

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Speaker 1: got forty five years on on each one of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's in prison now. Really. Yeah. I wonder if he

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Speaker 1: listens to this podcast. I hope so, Hey, Robert, that's

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Speaker 1: why it's pretty interesting, man. I just can't believe that

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Speaker 1: you can do at and live. Yeah, and I would

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Speaker 1: think that somebody would be after you today. You know.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was more or less, and we put

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks in prison. Uh, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of them had the mindset that their job was to

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Speaker 1: sale drugs and our job was to catch them. If

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Speaker 1: they got away with it, we lost, and if we

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Speaker 1: called them, we won. And they let it pretty well

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Speaker 1: let it go with that. You know, there's been a

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Speaker 1: few threats, but nothing was ever carried out, nothing that

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Speaker 1: we even took serious. And we went to great links

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Speaker 1: to keep our home addresses and our families out of them,

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Speaker 1: out of the deal of reports anything that could be

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Speaker 1: you know, found under discovery laws. And this is also

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Speaker 1: before Facebook. Yeah, you know. I had a couple of

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Speaker 1: people mentioned to me. They said, hey, how how can

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Speaker 1: you tell all this stuff and not be hurting law

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Speaker 1: enforcement operations maybe going on right now. And to be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, I don't have a real good answer

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Speaker 1: for that. Well, I can answer that the technology is

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Speaker 1: well beyond anything they're not sending in people like that. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but the old poach coach with the VCRs and all

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Speaker 1: of that, No, I don't need it anywhere they don't

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Speaker 1: need it. There's those other ways, and I mean I

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Speaker 1: won't get specifics about it, um, but no, there's other

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Speaker 1: ways to do it. Have anything to do with hiding

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Speaker 1: cameras and overalls, could be you never enough pocket watches,

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Speaker 1: pocket watches. It reminds me look at that pocket Prince Pool.

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Speaker 1: That was pocket watch. That was good. It's got a

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Speaker 1: clear top on it, beautiful pocket watch. Well that that

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Speaker 1: is what So the what God has started on all.

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Speaker 1: This was when I did the series on Loud and

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Speaker 1: Charlie Edwards and just as the story unfolded, like it

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Speaker 1: was like real journalism. I really don't think of myself

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Speaker 1: as a journalist, but that's what that was, misty, real journalist.

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Speaker 1: As the story unfolded, a man came to came to

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Speaker 1: me and said, hey, I know a law enforcement guy

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Speaker 1: came to me and said I know the guy and

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Speaker 1: how to contact him of who worked undercover to try

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Speaker 1: to get lou down Charlie and so I go and

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Speaker 1: talk to Russ Arthur And that's kind of when this

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Speaker 1: whole undercover interests popped up. And so Isaac and I

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Speaker 1: were interviewing Chip Gross in Ohio for the Lewis Wetzel podcast,

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Speaker 1: which was requested by Steve ronnella. Lewis Wetzel's a serial killer,

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Speaker 1: and Gross and the Louis Del Charlie Edwards stuff had

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Speaker 1: just come out, and I say, hey, we just did

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Speaker 1: a big thing about these turkey poaching outlaws in Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: Chip Growth says, well, guess what. I'm a former Ohio

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Speaker 1: game warden and I wrote a book about Artie Stewart,

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Speaker 1: who's still alive retired and and that's how all the

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Speaker 1: started and so and and I drove up to Ohio

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Speaker 1: on like the October, drove there by myself and met

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Speaker 1: with RT and talked to him for like three hours,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was really interesting. Just RT is

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Speaker 1: an interesting guy. You know, you only get so you're

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Speaker 1: you're getting the cherry picked parts of these of these interviews.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was. I mean, you know, and you

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Speaker 1: guys have heard the whole whole story. But I've had

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Speaker 1: some people say that they don't like this dark stuff.

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Speaker 1: But the America is fascinated with crime. The number one

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Speaker 1: podcast in the world is Crime Junkie. Did you know

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Speaker 1: that Isaac was the one to the producer of Burger's podcast.

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Speaker 1: I just listened to it. The story that we were

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Speaker 1: talking about earlier. That was the one my dad sent

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Speaker 1: me that that was the podcast I listened to, okay earlier.

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Speaker 1: What you're gonna say, Mr, I'm not fascinated with it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not. I don't judge people who are. I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying for me personally, I can't. I remember reading

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Speaker 1: reading Crime and Punishment and and not being able to sleep,

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Speaker 1: having not like I actually had to stop reading the

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Speaker 1: book I was I was pregnant with bear, and it

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Speaker 1: could have I don't know I had something to do

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Speaker 1: with that. I don't, but I remember reading just I

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Speaker 1: just can't handle that delving into the dark parts of

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Speaker 1: people's like that level a guy on Instagram the other

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Speaker 1: day I said, the only way we really appreciate the

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Speaker 1: light just to understand the darkness. Yeah, that was pretty good,

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Speaker 1: And yeah I said something like that, but there's a

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Speaker 1: touch of that that's really true. It sounds like a

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Speaker 1: funny jobber, but but to me, it's interesting in this

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Speaker 1: country of law and order that we live in, Like

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Speaker 1: in our society obeying laws, the rule of law is

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Speaker 1: deeply inside of all of us and you pop out

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Speaker 1: and don't know it, but you're born into a society

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Speaker 1: that is fixated on laws. I mean, even when you

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Speaker 1: think about the politics of the country, politics is all

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Speaker 1: about you know, this much government or that much government.

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Speaker 1: It's all about balance. If you if you look at

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Speaker 1: traffic in this country versus traffic in other countries, you

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Speaker 1: see the rule of law. You see, like if you

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Speaker 1: travel to that's where I've seen the rule of law

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Speaker 1: is just watching how people obey stoplights when no one's

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Speaker 1: watching when there's no polace around, when it's past, you

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Speaker 1: know time. And then you go to other countries in

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Speaker 1: the midst of rush hour and people are like, there's

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Speaker 1: no regard for the law whatsoever. And that's that is

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Speaker 1: uniquely right. And and so when we look at the

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Speaker 1: North American model of wildlife conservation and we see it

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Speaker 1: as the most the most successful animal husbandry effort of

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Speaker 1: humans ever, it has been based upon a group of

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Speaker 1: people that were, for the most part, willing to obey

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Speaker 1: the law, which is so wild because there was no

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Speaker 1: law until the turn of the twentieth century. In the

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Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds, it was there was market hunting. So these

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Speaker 1: the Europeans that came over here, unregulated hunting, no rules,

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Speaker 1: no law. The market dictated like how many deer you

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Speaker 1: could kill? How many of this you could kill? And

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Speaker 1: then wildlife populations plummeted. Roosevelt, Boone and Crockett Club, all

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Speaker 1: these guys came in and said, hey, we gotta manage

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Speaker 1: these things, we gotta we gotta put laws in. All

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Speaker 1: these state game agencies started popping up out of nowhere

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Speaker 1: around the nineteen hundred. They instituted game laws. There was

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Speaker 1: a generation of people that despised it because they were like, what,

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Speaker 1: this is just like Europe because the mentality was that

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Speaker 1: had come from Europe where the peasants, normal people, non

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Speaker 1: rich people didn't have access to wildlife. And then we

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Speaker 1: come over here and they're like, hey, this is gonna

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Speaker 1: become just like Europe. And Roosevelt was like, no, just

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Speaker 1: trust me, this is all gonna be good. And then

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Speaker 1: we just like work through this journey to get to like,

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Speaker 1: let's just say that as arbitrary time. But like about

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Speaker 1: the time Dad started bow hunting and and dear population

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Speaker 1: started rising, Turkey population started rising, it was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we all pretty much need to obey the law and

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Speaker 1: and and from that, you know, some didn't, but for

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Speaker 1: the most part, people obey the law, and that's such

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Speaker 1: a critical thing. So to me, that's why it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's not just like crime. Um. But I also think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to me because I have spent the better

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Speaker 1: part of my life really trying to follow the rules.

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Speaker 1: So when I see someone that just absolutely doesn't follow

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Speaker 1: the rules, I'm just like, who is this guy? And

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Speaker 1: I got that from Gary Nukle. Really you you you

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Speaker 1: said you always just kind of enjoyed just looking at

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Speaker 1: people who were a little bit crazy. Yeah. Yeah, would

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Speaker 1: you describe it like that? Yeah, absolutely, it's entertaining. I

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Speaker 1: mean I didn't I didn't like it, but it was

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Speaker 1: so opposite of the way I was raised. It was

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Speaker 1: like entertainment. See how crazy some of these people were.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about this uh series so far?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think it's excellent. I enjoy crime and punishment,

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Speaker 1: you know, Uh, I'm attracted to it, and I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of it just has to do the way

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Speaker 1: I was Did you just say that you're attracted to crime? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I like to what I like to watch

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Speaker 1: what's going on afterre and this is this is no exception.

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Speaker 1: It's very good, very good. I do have one complaint though, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's hear you know. I mean, you got you got

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Speaker 1: a pretty good gig going here. But the music when

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Speaker 1: you start this podcast, it sounds like it's on a

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Speaker 1: record where the needles going back and forth. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's I mean? No, I don't know what. We don't

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Speaker 1: deserve the crisp music. Yeah, that's polish purpose. What what

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Speaker 1: you're referring to is the is the music and the

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Speaker 1: render it goes and then it it comes in full.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you don't like that. No, I don't like that.

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Speaker 1: But you're saying that's intentional. Man, you gotta be kidding.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even joking about what's good about it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know Phil Taylor did it? Phil? You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking. You know what. It's a good effect. It's

400
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: an effect. It's just a little spice of life. Yeah,

401
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: because it catches you off guard. It's it's like a

402
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: script change. You think you're gonna come in and hear this,

403
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Speaker 1: but then you you're like, wait a minute, it sounds

404
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Speaker 1: it kicks in. We'll see the smart people figure that out.

405
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Speaker 1: But when you got a i Q sixty, you're like,

406
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: so that's the only in a lot of your audience

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00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: the first time you caught that. I mean, you know

408
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: how you saying, Clay's audience is a little like some

409
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: of it. Any audience does. So anyway, I'd like Taylor

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Speaker 1: to is it Taylor till Taylor? Bill Taylor get that text, man,

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Speaker 1: He'll keep it. What what stood out to you? Was

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Speaker 1: there any part of it that you just you liked?

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Speaker 1: I mean stories of you know, the individual stories, some

414
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Speaker 1: of them. I just really enjoyed. You know, I listened

415
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Speaker 1: to that three times and uh, I just liked every

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Speaker 1: bit of it. Period. But on the way up here,

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I'm like to come up with

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Speaker 1: something that's my favorite thing, and you know what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say, And it's pretty close to the truth when

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Speaker 1: you said, boys, get the popcorn. Now, you know, whenever

421
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Speaker 1: he watched the VHS tape, Yeah, the judge in jury

422
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Speaker 1: is gonna watch the take, man get the popcorn. Now.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, you know, just all of it. I

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Speaker 1: mean the whole thing, and um, it was just really

425
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: intriguing to me, and I think, um, it was one

426
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: of my favorite overall. I mean, it doesn't probably stack

427
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: up with Daniel Boone or some of the others. It's historically,

428
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, you get into some really cool stuff, but

429
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: the entertainment wise, it was up there pretty high for me. Yeah, Josh,

430
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part of what you've heard so far?

431
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm just fascinated with the psychology

432
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,360
Speaker 1: of being an undercover agent and just having to like

433
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: constantly live a lie in such a way that your

434
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: lie becomes your reality. And I think that's I can't

435
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: quite wrap my mind around that. How that affects the

436
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: way you think and the way that you see life,

437
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: how you connect with people that you genuinely have relationship with,

438
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: and then just the fact of of building relationships with

439
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: people that you're going to have to arrest, you know

440
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: what I mean, that's it's got to throw you into

441
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: termo what it takes a very unique individual to be

442
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: able to do that. Um, you know, I think I

443
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: think the average person couldn't couldn't do that. And so

444
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 1: just listening to him talk and that's even how he

445
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: would talk to you and just kind of be like,

446
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: is that the truth? Did I tell you the truth?

447
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? It was just like it's

448
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: like wow, I can't I can't imagine what that's like,

449
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: just having that dichotomy inside so long that the dichotomy disappears,

450
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: And I wonder sometimes like like do you do you

451
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: are you able to differentiate between what's reality and what's not? Um,

452
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: it's pretty fascinating. But I also also like like hearing

453
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: him say, you know, I recognize what this has done

454
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: to my family and and you know, it put a

455
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: lot of strain on my relationships and you know, I

456
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: regret that, you know, I think the work that I

457
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: did was good, but I regret the the you know,

458
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: what it did to my family. I think, I think

459
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: that takes a It takes a an honest uh. It

460
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: takes a self evaluative person to be able to to

461
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: look at that and admit that with with um, with humility,

462
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: and so I think that, you know, I don't know

463
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: what his life is like now, but I think he

464
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: probably you know, spends a lot more time investing in

465
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: things that are valuable in his life. Yeah. I think

466
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: that idea of an undercover agent getting close to somebody

467
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: is something that you typically wouldn't think about. And the

468
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: main reason I thought about it was because of lou

469
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: down Charlie. Typically we have a really easy, easy time

470
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: like just say, talking about a criminal, just very derogatively,

471
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: just like criminals. Of course, anybody would you know, go

472
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: in undercover and would be thrilled to turn these guys,

473
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: which is a true story, but it's a little more

474
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: nuanced than that. And that's the whole thing about Louis

475
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: Dell and Charlie. That was the whole story, The whole

476
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: part of that series that was so interesting is that

477
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: these were actually too many people, really likable people, but

478
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: also these outlaws, and so I think that's and and

479
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: then you know, ARTI is just a random agent that

480
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: kind of picked out of the hat. And I go

481
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: to him and I say, hey, were you ever really

482
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: close to somebody that you had respect for? And he's,

483
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, yep, sure was. There was this one guy.

484
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: So and then I talked to Matthew Sharps, Dr. Matthew Sharps,

485
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: who says, this is really common. So that's an interesting thing.

486
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: And that's where you can't take the human out of

487
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: the equation, and human beings being susceptible to relationship, susceptible

488
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: to liking someone, susceptible to seeing something good in someone

489
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: even if even if there's some bad stuff. So I mean,

490
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: I think that's a good I was honestly surprised. The

491
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,479
Speaker 1: other way, I felt like I was a little bit

492
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: surprised that he only had a closer relationship with one person,

493
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: Like I feel like when you're around people, and this

494
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: probably speaks to the character of the people that he

495
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: was around, and that we're making a career out of proaching,

496
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: But just like I feel like I can start to

497
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: empathize with or you know, have a have a person

498
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: to person relationship with just about anybody if I've given

499
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: enough time around them. But I think that's kind of

500
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: remarkable that there was really only one that he was like, Man,

501
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: I feel bad for this guy the rest of him.

502
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: No feeling actually took out part of what he said

503
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: because it was so hard. Uh. At one point when

504
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: I said what about these other guys, and he just

505
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: said they're despicable people. I mean like yeah, uh and uh,

506
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: and I mean you try, just like when he they

507
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: asked the defense lawyer asked if he smoked dope with

508
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: a guy and he said, yeah, I did. I believed

509
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Art when he said they were despicable people because he

510
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: also was like Target number two was actually a pretty

511
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: good guy, just caught up in a bad part of

512
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: his life. And oh man, I I can't spill the

513
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: beans too much because there are no beans. Josh, there's

514
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: no beans. But I would love to talk to Target

515
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: number two. I know who he is, where he lives. Oh,

516
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know, like the address of his

517
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: house is he is he one of our relatives. I

518
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: know where the guys at, and I think he actually

519
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: I think that he's actually a really good, good guy. Now,

520
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: I would suspicion that he would talk to you. I

521
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: bet you he's one of these guys that says, hey, man,

522
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: I got kind of trapped up and in a man

523
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: I regret it, and I got a wonderful family, and

524
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: I got a great job and I look back on

525
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: that period and you know, I mean, who knows. That's

526
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: my instinct too, And uh, I'm actually trying to reach

527
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: out to the guy right now. That would be awesome

528
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: if you could have one thing that I'd like to

529
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: comment on what just said. I know Misty has a

530
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: comment on that too, But uh, you know, to be

531
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: a law enforcement guy, you gotta have a certain makeup,

532
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you gotta want to do it.

533
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: It's like his little kids, you know. I want to

534
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: be a cowboy. I want to be a policeman. I

535
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: want to be there, you know. I mean it's like

536
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: and a lot of these guys end up doing it,

537
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, So our society is kind of geared

538
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: to where we can fill all spaces. You know, there's

539
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: so but to be a cop, I don't know what

540
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: it is, but to be an undercover guy it would

541
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: be really interesting to see what the makeup is of

542
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: these undercover guys. I would think adrenaline junkie, you know.

543
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you're stepping into a high every day. Every

544
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: day when you wake up, You're just going to you know,

545
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: I can die to day, you know. I mean, so

546
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: somehow you come like that, I would have to absolutely

547
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: say that that's right and to the point that you

548
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: sacrifice everything else, Yeah, very much so. And it was

549
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: it was all encompassing. I missed funerals, I missed visitations

550
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: because somebody called and I had to go, and when

551
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: I didn't have to, but I wanted to, and I

552
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: didn't want to go because I didn't want to be

553
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: with my family. I wanted to go because there was

554
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: somebody else to catch and I needed and I thought

555
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: that I needed to go do that, and it it all,

556
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: it all came full circle to me one morning. It

557
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: was on a Saturday, and I had taken um my

558
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: son to eat breakfast. We're gonna eat breakfast a little

559
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: cafe and we were sitting there eating and he was know.

560
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: During this time, my brother and I we still had

561
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: had the guide service going, and we had labradors at home.

562
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: This is all gonna make sense in a minute. And

563
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: we were sitting at the table eating breakfast, and I

564
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: was facing the door, obviously, and my son was backwards

565
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: to the door, and he's five or six years old.

566
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: And a truck goes by that had a yellow lab

567
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: and a black lab in it, and I said, Hunter,

568
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: there goes a truck with two labs in it, and

569
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: without turning around, he looked at me and said, myth labs. Oh,

570
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: And that was the That was a pretty hard thing

571
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: to but that was his first thought. And we had

572
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: labradors at home, and his first thought because that's all

573
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: he heard me talk about, you know, and you know

574
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: where's Daddy at He's working a myth lab. You know,

575
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: at that time there was only four or five of

576
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: the south of Little Rock that were myth lab certified

577
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: to take down myth labs. And you had had these

578
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: this DA training and we went to Quantico and had

579
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: all his training to be able to dismantle them because

580
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: they were so hazardous and we were averaging, you know,

581
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: sometimes five or six a month, and we were going

582
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: everywhere and it was just a real time consuming thing.

583
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: And it was at the height of the myth and

584
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: fed a mean plague, and you know in Arkansas and

585
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: this part of the country. So I mean that was

586
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: he should that should have never been his first thought,

587
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: and that was his first thought. So it came pretty

588
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: well full circle there. And yet I still did it

589
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: for another six or seven years before I could drive

590
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: to be successful at what you were doing. It was

591
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: it sounds like it might be more than the adrenaline high,

592
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: the addiction. You know, I got a had a I

593
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: enjoy testifying in court. I enjoyed a challenge. I loved

594
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: it when they wouldn't. I love going to court because

595
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: I wanted people to know what we were doing and

596
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: what these folks were doing, and it was a challenge

597
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: to me and I never you know, there were a

598
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: lot of officers that didn't like defense attorneys. I absolutely

599
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: love them, and I'd like, man, do your job. If

600
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: you can get me, if you can beat me, beat me.

601
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: I never lost because I put so much into it,

602
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: and I wasn't by myself, our whole crew, we never

603
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: lost a case it went to court because we knew

604
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: the challenges and stuff that they were looking for, and

605
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: that was it was vital important to me to go

606
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: beyond what we needed to do to ensure that when

607
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: we laid it out there on a piece of paper,

608
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: if they had any sense, they would say, look, there's

609
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: no yeah, we're not gonna go to court. Another reason

610
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: I like testifying in court. It was the only time

611
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: that I knew in a room that I was sitting

612
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: in that when I was talking, everybody was listening to me.

613
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I had a lot of similarities there between you undercover

614
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: guys in in War heat Rose. I mean, you know,

615
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: you've got a family at home, but you're you want

616
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: to go back to Afghanistan, and I mean you want

617
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: to be a sniper. You know, you got you got this,

618
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: You're focused, so uh, you know a lot of kutos

619
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: of these guys. I mean it's just it's pretty cool

620
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: what they're doing and the sacrifices and in the benefit

621
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: that comes from it for our society. Yeah, Brett, what

622
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: stood out to you as a favorite part being being

623
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: in knowing that game, Like, was there a party just

624
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed. I knew what he was gonna say

625
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: when you asked him was it worth it? M because

626
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't worth it to me either at the time.

627
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: It was, But when you asked him, and he said, no,

628
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: it's it wasn't. But that that's what stood out the

629
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: most to me. A lot. There was a lot of similarities.

630
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: He was telling stories and all the stuff that he

631
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: talked about gathering in cases and making the case and

632
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: being with those folks and having to be in the

633
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: places that he was. You know the thing, uh, it

634
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: stood out about the cover almost being blown. Yeah, that happened.

635
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: That happened. We had been invited by a a law

636
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: enforcement or sheriff of a county in South Arkansas that

637
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: was suspect to us to begin with, but he he

638
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: had invited us to come work on a problem of

639
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: meth and fetamine ring down there in that area. And

640
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: we went down there, but we were didn't tell him

641
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 1: we were coming. And we went in this this bar

642
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: that uh, and we were there was three of us

643
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: in there working, and of course he had no clue

644
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: that we were down there, correct. And who do we

645
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: see walking the door where there an iron and a

646
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 1: half walks in and walks behind the bar, fixes itself

647
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: a drink and then walks back out. And everybody in

648
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: there was in the athan fhetamine trade. M do you

649
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: think he was on the inside of it. I didn't

650
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: say that he's no longer alive. He's no, he was

651
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: no longer a sheriff shortly after that. But we'll call it.

652
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: We'll call him target number three. All he had to

653
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: do was to look where he was at, because he

654
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: knew all of us. All he had to done was

655
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: looked at where we were sitting, because we, I mean

656
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: we were all looking at each other, like, what's what's

657
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: going on? You know? I was because there's no windows

658
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: in that place, and I was looking to crawl that

659
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: one because that could have ruined a whole bunch of stuff.

660
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: But luckily it didn't. He never looked at us, He

661
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: didn't see us, never knew we were there. But so

662
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: I can I empathize with that. I don't know what

663
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: he's how that that feels. I also know how it feels.

664
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: He wouldn't. I'm very proud of the stuff that I did,

665
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't do it again. And even though I

666
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: miss it, I wouldn't do it any more. You're safe, Yeah, Dad?

667
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: What do you say? The chances are that brand is

668
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: actually an UNDERCOVERA But I think it's real high. I

669
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: think him stripped. No, I don't want him to do.

670
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Has Clay talked about that yet?

671
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: That's on the third episode. I just told you all

672
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: about that. Um miss Nokem, what stood out to you?

673
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: What was your favorite part? Well, I thought, I mean

674
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: it really is. I do. I don't like getting in

675
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: on the dark side of people's inner conscious but I

676
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: do enjoy like crime and law and order and chose,

677
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, I enjoy what I don't enjoy, you know,

678
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: criminal activity. But but like like Josh was saying, the

679
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: psychology of what he was doing, I don't think I

680
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 1: could do it. I don't think I really don't think.

681
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: We were talking to of our daughters last night. I

682
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: was telling her a story about a situation that I

683
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: got in where someone was asking me questions and I

684
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: knew to answer them would actually reveal some information about

685
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: a different person that would diminish their reputation in the

686
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: eyes of the person I was talking to. So I

687
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: didn't answer fully. I answered honestly, but I didn't answer fully.

688
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: I didn't tell the whole story, and and I said

689
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: when I walked away, I kind of felt sick because

690
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: I felt like I had lied to them, even though

691
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: I didn't lie. I teld you know, I was like

692
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: really careful to tell the truth. But I think I

693
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: would be a hot mess in a situation where I

694
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: was every single day having to portray myself differently than

695
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: like who I I would just be so incredibly difficult.

696
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: I thought it was crazy, all the close calls he

697
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: came to, like when he was talking about the people

698
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: overhearing from the other room, the guys, Yes, that is crazy.

699
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: And that's just the ones that he knew about, right, Oh,

700
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: and that's just the ones on this case. Right. This

701
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: was a small part of his full career. Who knows,

702
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: you know how many times I walk around a corner

703
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: and somebody walked out of store or something. You know that, Hey,

704
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: I know that guy. Well, I was just thinking about

705
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: like the idea of the poach coach. Like I'm a

706
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: pretty curious person, and I can't imagine sitting in the

707
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 1: back of the van and not just like looking around.

708
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 1: You know, it's a cool thing, and you're just like, yeah, like,

709
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: I feel like there are so many inox. Have you

710
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: ever looked at my console and looked at all that stuff?

711
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: Just there's more stuff in my console? You could you

712
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: could live for six years, like if you died, like

713
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: in a ten thousand years, if they find your truck console,

714
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: they can piece together your whole live Yeah. Yeah, And

715
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: Isaac's been going through it while I was in the

716
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: gas station. I'm formulating an anthropological sort of theory. This

717
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: must have been a religious ceremony here. No, but just

718
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: like it's a turkey vest, like he had a full

719
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: lawn recorder in that, like all it takes this one

720
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: buddy to be like, what are you carrying there? Boom over? Well,

721
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: And that's what the third episode a lot is about,

722
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: because so I told these stories, like I told the

723
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: whole story of Operation Red Button Part two. The first

724
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: episode was kind of an overview of just under undercover

725
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: work in general, but there was so many small stories

726
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: that were still left that were just intriguing all on

727
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: their own, that the third episode is going to be

728
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: a lot of just like real unique, you know, clipped

729
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: out stories of when wild stuff happened and he got

730
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: out of stuff because that's what's so interesting to me.

731
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: And he was just he was It takes a lot

732
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: of confidence. And Artist said that, and and after I

733
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: interviewed him, and after I've done spent so much time

734
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: on this. I see what he means, Like you can't

735
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: hesitate when when someone does something, you just have to react,

736
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: and most people will bow to confidence. I mean unfortunately

737
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: or fortunately I don't know. But like if if you

738
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: say you're Art Steward, I know you. You were my

739
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: archery coach back at that that college and he's just like,

740
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,479
Speaker 1: you got me mixed up with somebody? Was that guy

741
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: good looking and rich? And he's like, well he was

742
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: good looking, it wasn't rich. Well it wasn't me because

743
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: I'm good looking and rich. I mean, just just not

744
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: miss a beat, just like this is who I am. Yeah,

745
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: all the good an arcs I've ever worked with all

746
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: head sense as of humor, and we're just in the

747
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: gift of gab. Yeah, you can just go with the flow,

748
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 1: talk your way through anything kind of like that would

749
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: be though, that to constantly deceive people, I think would

750
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: be such a difficult, a difficult thing, like to go

751
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: back to your family and to have a habit of

752
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: deceiving people all day long and then have to go

753
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: back to your family and be hard. Have you ever

754
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: done this? Uh? I'll often pick up a word or

755
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: phrase in my vocabulary ironically, Like I heard somebody call

756
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: somebody guy one time, and I felt like it was

757
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard, Like, yeah, no problem, guy,

758
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that sounds weird. So I started would say,

759
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: well it is now because I started saying it ironically,

760
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: and then at some point in time I just woke

761
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: up and realized that it had crept into my lexicon.

762
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: And now I say guy and I think in the

763
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 1: same way. In the same way, you have these guys

764
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: who like creep into this lifestyle and then they wake

765
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: up some day and they're like, am I bob am I?

766
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, like, I don't know that would be a

767
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: weird experience because it's not a a there's not like

768
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: a turning point. It's just a series of decisions and

769
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: a series of experiences. And then all of a sudden

770
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: you're like, man, I'm in pretty deep. I've been doing

771
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: this for fifteen months. Yeah, am I into poaching? Now?

772
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: Am I a poacher? Now? I want to come clean

773
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: about an actual fear I have. I have a fear

774
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: that I'll also want to hear what you think Elon

775
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: Musk could should Twitter go ahead, We'll talk about that

776
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: at the end. That's a spoiler alert. Missy has some

777
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: great advice for Elon Musk, so he'll hear it. I

778
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: have a major fear that one day I will be

779
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: called on to do undercover work. This is like, actually

780
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: has come up in my my thought life a lot,

781
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: like what if I'm called on to do undercover work

782
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: and I have to break the law to do it,

783
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: Like if the US government flies a chopper in here

784
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: in the dark exactly knocks on our door, and the

785
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: like rambo, what if they have what if they have

786
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: like an activation word like like pineapple, and like all

787
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: of a sudden you turn into some different Okay, carry on.

788
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: My concern is and every time I hear Britt talk

789
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: about his undercover work, I'm always concerned that this is

790
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: going to happen to him as well, that I will

791
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: be asked to do illegal things but never tell anyone,

792
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: and there's only one person that knows and exactly, and

793
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: there's only one person that knows, and that person is

794
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: either dirty or it gets killed, and so no one

795
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: knows that I'm actually innocent, that I'm just following orders.

796
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: This is a really specific fear. It is it is

797
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: it's it's because I think I've I've seen too many

798
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: talk about this. So that movie about this, Uh, we

799
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: talked about it. We talked about it. Yeah, yeah, Yeah,

800
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: it's a very specific fear because it has shown up

801
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: in movies and what happens if that person like their

802
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: families like, wait, you've lived this double life and you're like, no, actually,

803
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: I didn't live this double life when I was with you.

804
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: I was honest. And when it's just interesting, like what happens,

805
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: well urt RT. And this wasn't on the podcast. It

806
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: was just too much. But one time r T was

807
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: with the guys in Ohio and they planned to spur

808
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: the moment trip way deep into West Virginia and he

809
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to cross state lines or that wasn't a

810
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: part of the plan because you're going into another jurisdiction

811
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: all this. And he calls his boss and it's like, hey,

812
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: they want to go to West Virginia and I kind

813
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: of I have to go with him. And he was

814
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: like okay, and and and so only the boss was

815
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: in RT were the only ones who knew he was

816
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: over there, and and he said it was a it

817
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: was kind of a it was more to the story.

818
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: But it was an unnerving thing to be in West

819
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: Virginia and he didn't even know where it was. Um,

820
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: this is the exact scenario that I would be afraid.

821
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: And if his boss is dirty or dies, he's tub yes,

822
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 1: if he gets a restid West Virginia. Well, I mean,

823
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: in all fairness, there are any number of ways that

824
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: he could be in trouble, not just actually was surprised

825
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: at how much he said that he was concerned about

826
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: the legal ramifications of what he was doing. The murder plot, well, yeah,

827
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: the murder plot, but but just in general, like he

828
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: was constantly walking the line of him going him getting

829
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: in trouble for what he was doing. Like he like

830
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: hasn't been on the podcast yet about when they robbed

831
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: the gas station. M h yeah, and and he needed

832
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: to video that and declare that he didn't know that

833
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: that was going to happen because if it went to court,

834
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: they might say this guy's critically put him in jail.

835
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: So like, because I asked him, I said, is there

836
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: legal ramifications for you? And he said, oh, every day,

837
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: he said, I had to really watch myself everything I

838
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: did to make sure so you know, there's a lot

839
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: at risk. There's a psychological study that where they they

840
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: basically told people to do something mean, I mean, this

841
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: is the real short version of it, you know what

842
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. And and they found that people were

843
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: willing to go very far doing terrible things as long

844
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: as someone in charge told him to do it. The

845
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: study was that they had they were told they were

846
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: uh being paid to do a study. They thought they

847
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: were not the subject. They thought they were just participating

848
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: in it, and the subject was answering questions and every

849
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: time they got a question wrong, they had to administer

850
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: a shock. Every time they got it wrong, it would

851
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: go up and to the point that's what they were told.

852
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: That what they were told, to the point where the

853
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: fake subject is complaining of like heart pain or like

854
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: please stop, I don't want to do this anymore. And

855
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: and the test they just came to it, yeah, kept

856
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: nailing it, and they found that people were as long

857
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: as they felt authorized, and that they were willing to

858
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: go a lot further than than what you would be

859
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 1: comfortable with. I'd like to read you to you guys

860
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: a email that I got and I'm not gonna say

861
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: the name, so it's it's gonna be fun. But I

862
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: got this email. I shared this with RT and he

863
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: he was really thrilled about this. But this guy says,

864
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: I was recently listening to episode seventy eight of the

865
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: Bargaryse podcast Secret Agent Man, and found myself overwhelmed with

866
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: emotion and even moved to tears. My father is under

867
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: is a retired undercover narcotics agent. For nearly the first

868
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: half of my life, I hardly saw him and certainly

869
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: didn't know him. I grew up feeling fatherless all the while.

870
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: My father was home most nights and even took me

871
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: to school in the morning, but that was the extent

872
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: of our relationship. I knew of his career and idolized

873
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: him for for it, making up that he was a

874
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: superhero and his duty was more important than my life.

875
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: Coming of age, I soon began to resent in neglect,

876
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 1: resent his neglect and lack of relationship, And when when

877
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: he retired, he came home and pretended as if he

878
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: had always been home, and my resentment grew you with me.

879
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: Almost two decades later, after years of therapy, I've learned

880
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: to accept him and no he did the best he

881
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: could with no malice des the abandonment I felt. Coming

882
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: back to Clay's interview with RT, I found myself in

883
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: tears listening to ARTI's interpersonal struggle with coming to terms

884
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: with his double life, even lamenting if given the choice,

885
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: he wouldn't take make the same decision. This prompted me

886
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: to ask my own father about his experience, something that's

887
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: borderline taboo. And my family and he he shares what

888
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: he wants to, but we don't ask questions unprompted. Asking

889
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: him if he struggled with coming home after being an

890
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 1: undercover agent took an immense amount of courage. His response

891
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: was similar to urt s, and we were able to

892
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: have the most honest conversation we've ever had. For the

893
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: first time, he accepted his life was his work and

894
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 1: not us, and he wasn't around for me and my siblings.

895
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: He accepted how difficult he was to live with and

896
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: how hard it was to live a double life, similar

897
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: to Artie's experience mentioned in the interview. At the end

898
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: of the conversation, I was able to tell him with

899
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: all honesty how proud I was to be his son,

900
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: something I've never expressed nor felt until very recent I

901
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: never expected the hunting podcast would mend a lifelong wound

902
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: I've carried for over thirty years. Wow, man, that's a

903
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: big deal. Yeah, I thought so, really really great, great feedback. Interesting.

904
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes sometimes people have a calling that's um

905
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: so important. You know that it that the bad that

906
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: it creates. You know, they've off said it, you know.

907
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: Uh so you know, where would we be without these

908
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: undercover guys. You know, it's pretty important that we've got

909
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: people that have the courage to do that. So anyway,

910
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: um sacrifice to the family at times. Yeah, yeah, everything,

911
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: everything does come with a cost. I mean, but you know,

912
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that you could have

913
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: any kind of job and you know, same thing. It

914
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: happens all the time, you know, if you're a workaholic,

915
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: same thing. Yeah, but the motive is different, you know,

916
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: the undercover guys helping our society, the workaholics helping its

917
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: checking a camp. Isaac, did you have a favorite part?

918
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: I didn't specifically ask you yet what stood out to you? Man?

919
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: I think I think I said the big things the

920
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: idea of like just the happenstance of how many times

921
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 1: he could have been found out and wasn't, And then

922
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: the idea of just morphing into someone else. That's I

923
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: think kind of an insidious and scary concept. And then

924
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: like what does it look like to detox from that,

925
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: Like when you're done, Like, how do you like remember

926
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: the old RT? I think that's pretty fascinating. Um. I

927
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: was struck in this by how cavalier and quick to

928
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: trust the targets were. Yeah. Um, I just feel like

929
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: I would be really cag if I was like operating

930
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: in this large criminal activity and then like you meet

931
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: a new guy and you're like, what are you doing Thursday?

932
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,959
Speaker 1: But it's that I can see how that would seem

933
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: that way. I think there's a way to think about

934
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 1: it though, that these guys probably didn't think what they

935
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: were doing was that bad. Probably that's what that's what

936
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: we learned. We talked about Louis Dell and Charlie from everybody,

937
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: it's like it just in there, in that part of

938
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: the world, and that time it was just like this

939
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: really wasn't that big of a deal. That's what they thought.

940
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: And then and then at that time there weren't undercover agents. Yeah,

941
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 1: I mean that in Ohio, so like this was like

942
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: what years was it? Nine? And ninety six. Because when

943
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: all this went down, Misty, do you uh so everybody

944
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: knows that Elon Musk has bought Twitter. Misty, what what

945
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: advice would you have for him? Missy? How many people

946
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: do you think you've hired in your lifetime? How many

947
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: people have I hired? I mean right now I have people.

948
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: Misty knows what it's like to run a big company,

949
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: Fire Global Company, know this that what's the problem here

950
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 1: is that Clay and I are driving to Chep's basketball game,

951
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: and just the two of us in the car, I

952
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: just started spouting out what I you know, what I

953
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: feel like Elon Musk is doing. And I have a

954
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: little mercy towards him because he reminds me a lot

955
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: of some of my students. Was a principal for nine

956
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: years of our Our school had at that time se

957
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: male population. That's a big practically a boys school, and

958
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't designed to be that way, but that that's

959
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: what we got. And the way Elon Musk is behaving

960
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: right now reminds me a little bit of a lot

961
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: of boys who have been sent to my office. And

962
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: I was just telling him Clay, like I kind of

963
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: I have the same field for Elon Musk that I

964
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: have for the boys that get sent to my office,

965
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: like you know you you see of his income, of

966
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: Twitter's income is dependent on advertising dollars, and he's kind

967
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 1: of self destructing right now where all of that money

968
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: is being pulled. And there's this part of Elon must

969
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, guys, don't leave, you could trust me.

970
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: He writes this letter to all that donors saying, give

971
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 1: me a chance, let me prove to you. But then

972
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: the other part of Elon Musk is like, has this

973
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: crowd of people cheering for him, and he's like I

974
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of like that attention, and so he like impulsively

975
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: does things to respond on to that crowd, and it's

976
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: it's just total self destruction. So what I want to

977
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: tell him is, Elon, lock yourself in a room, get

978
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 1: a couple of advisors that you really trust. Slow this down.

979
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: Let's slow this down a little bit. And they're losing

980
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: four million dollars a day. What he said, it's like,

981
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 1: don't say the company's going bankrupt, don't just maybe don't

982
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: be don't get on Twitter right now. It's I don't

983
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: have really deep I don't have deep things. It's just

984
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: just just kind of a general feeling of like, ah, buddy, yeah,

985
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: just come on, guy, you got this because, like you see,

986
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: he kind of wants to be When I when I

987
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: acquired Bare Hunting Magazine in the Midsummer point third team,

988
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the same thing. I was advised change

989
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: a thing for at least a year, like, don't even

990
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: let people know hands, Yes, Clyde Nukele, did you keep

991
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 1: it that way for a year? Pretty much? He did?

992
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: He did. I had I had an editor that was

993
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: working that stayed on the magazine for two years. He

994
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: was doing a job that I actually did his job,

995
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: but he was getting the credit for just like I

996
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: kept his face into magazine. I pretty much kept things

997
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: the same. That's what I would if Ellen were here,

998
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: which you know, he might be on the Burglary's Render

999
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: one day. Um Bill Clinton too, I want Bill Clinton,

1000
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: Elon Musk, Gary nuclem Uh, who else? Who else could

1001
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: be in there? I have advice for all these people.

1002
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: Please include me on this room. I mean I would

1003
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: need all of you. We'd have to get three more mikes.

1004
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: Can you work that down? I said, I'll just sit out,

1005
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: just take pictures out of I have real strong feelings

1006
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: about Ellen, and I would say, let the guy do

1007
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: whatever he thinks is right. I mean, you look at

1008
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: his net worth. Have you ever looked at his net work?

1009
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: Do you see how much it's declined end in the

1010
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: last couple week. Hey, he's taking that risk in the end,

1011
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: he'll get it back. Misty said that he has uh

1012
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: and maybe other people have said I just heard Misty said.

1013
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: I get most of my information from life from Misty.

1014
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: It's true. I think I told him not to change

1015
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: anything about h Ellen has a like like Alex Hanald

1016
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: who climbs free climbs, and he has this incredible ability

1017
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: to deal with danger, like an unusual amount lack of

1018
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: ability to have fear risk averse risk. No, no, no,

1019
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: it's the opposite. It's Elon Musk. She like, Hey, if

1020
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: he doesn't go south, it's no big deal. It's it's

1021
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: really like a phenomenon on teenage boys where they have

1022
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: risk taking behavior that they don't have the the ability to.

1023
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: They don't have developed a fully developed prefrontal cortex, and

1024
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: so they and not just teenage. It should be good

1025
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: by twenty one, but I don't know. He might have

1026
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 1: done some things. You know, the brain is is a

1027
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: dynamic thing, and so people take they take risk without

1028
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: calculating the cost. It's it's why a lot of people

1029
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: end up just aging out of out of crime and

1030
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: drug use because they get that prefrontal cortex. It's an

1031
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: amazing thing. It helps you kind of calculate risk. So

1032
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: I just think his and that's been successful for him,

1033
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: Like that's that has been a massive point of success

1034
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: for him. So he takes bigger and bigger risk. The

1035
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: problem is at some point in Gosh, I hope everything's

1036
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: okay with Alex Handld too, because I kind of like him.

1037
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: At some point Clinton, Alex Handld, Elon Musk, Alex Handld

1038
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: is gonna die from climbing. It makes me so nervous

1039
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: that one day he's going to take a risk that

1040
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: he can't. It's it's like he's going to take the

1041
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 1: one just too far. Yeah, But I think the people

1042
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: like that, and this may pour it over to Elon

1043
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: Musk as well. It's like I can't not. Yeah, Like

1044
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: there's something inside of me that drives me to do this.

1045
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: But when you look at all and it's it's to

1046
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: be nipp icky. It's free soloing. Um, the free climbing.

1047
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 1: Free climbing is like there's aid climbing, which was like

1048
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: traditional alpinism, where are you're using all the gear to

1049
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: get out free climb. Free climbing is when you just climb.

1050
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: You know you can use safety gear, but you use

1051
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: your body to get up the rock. And then free

1052
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: soloing is no safety gear climbing climbing. I just think

1053
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: that it's it's like a risk like these guys who

1054
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: take these big risks can be very successful and then

1055
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: and though that risk taking behavior, it's We had a

1056
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: separate conversation that I won't quote here, but where I

1057
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: was I was saying like sometimes sometimes life rewards those

1058
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: risk takers huge and and he has been rewarded to hugely,

1059
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: and it's clear he's there's no way he could do

1060
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: what he's doing. He really very much reminds me of

1061
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: some students I've had in my in my office who

1062
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: are brilliant, who have a very sharp minds. Emerald in

1063
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: South Africa reminds me a lot of when I bought

1064
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: Izzie off Craigslist. It was a big gamble fired big

1065
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: took everything I had cut to me. He said I

1066
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: was crazy but paid off big and look at you now, yeah,

1067
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: like I mean, now, hey, Dad, tell us about I

1068
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 1: meant to do this right at the beginning. This is

1069
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: the most exciting thing. So you were a little bit

1070
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: younger than Bill Clinton. How much younger? Two years? So

1071
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: he was a sophomore. When he was a senior, he

1072
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: went to Hot Springs High Right, My sister graduated with him.

1073
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: So Sandy, she was in the class with him. Over

1074
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: the years, has gone to high school reunions. Even when

1075
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: he was right, he would invite his high school senior

1076
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: class too. The Governor's mansion than the d C. When

1077
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 1: he had a big event, he invited his senior class

1078
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 1: to come. Yeah. So you what do you remember about

1079
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: Clinton in high school? Well, you know, in high schoo cool.

1080
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it's it's really interesting to me to

1081
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: look at high school because it's all like peer groups.

1082
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: Everybody's developing inside and you're looking at the cool guys,

1083
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: the hoods, you know, different groups of people, and he

1084
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 1: he had if you're my major, we had we had

1085
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: hoodlums in hoods. Yeah, probably use that term when he

1086
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: when he was talking about Louis Dell Up on the

1087
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: sky left that a couple of hoodlums coming. These guys.

1088
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: These guys smoked, you know in my so anyway, Bill was.

1089
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know Bill. I mean, you know, we would

1090
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: speak maybe in the hallway. Hello, we're like his friends. No, no, no,

1091
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: not even close. He wasn't my kind of guy. Man.

1092
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: He was too smart. I mean he played you know,

1093
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: he playing the band. He was just a neat guy,

1094
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: dressed neat. Everybody liked him. He went to church. Uh,

1095
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, he was just he wouldn't into an elite

1096
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: group of your high school, but you know he he was.

1097
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: He was just kind of a neat guy to be

1098
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: so smart, you know, and you would have wrecked you.

1099
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: You really think you would have recognized that even if

1100
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: he hadn't become president. Yeah, yeah, if you just said,

1101
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: how you remember Bill Clinton being a successful state farm agent.

1102
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: I never thought much about yea, really, I mean when

1103
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: did he start coming into Arkansas politics? And you're like, hey,

1104
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: I went to HH school that yeah, lieutenant governor. Probably

1105
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: in the seventies. So once you graduate high school sixty

1106
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: so ten years later you're like Bill Clinton. Yeah, yeah,

1107
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, which wasn't surprising. He didn't surprise me. Governor

1108
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: didn't surprise me. Yeah, President surprised me. Do you know.

1109
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: I I remember when he was running, so I would

1110
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: have been like twelve or thirteen years old, and I

1111
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: remember walking out of the house with you. You were

1112
01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: taking us to school, and you were dressed up in

1113
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: your suit and tide going to the bank, and I

1114
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: just I just remembered the moment when you you laughed

1115
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: and you said you said, old Bill Clinton is probably

1116
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: gonna be president. Like I could just tell you were

1117
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: you were like excited and kind of surprised, and and

1118
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: I'll never forget that for some reason, because I was like, huh,

1119
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton's gonna be president. I guess that's a big deal.

1120
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: And uh and slick slick Willie is that what? Yeah,

1121
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 1: slick Willie, did you ever see him? Not in hele

1122
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: h No, No, But you know what, I don't. I

1123
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: don't that they had it probably isn't true, but I mean,

1124
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,919
Speaker 1: you know, it could have gone either way. But well,

1125
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: if I something happens to me in the next couple

1126
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: of weeks, it's either some of it was either target

1127
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 1: number one or two, heard this podcast or the Clinton's yep,

1128
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: but um, nice guy in high school. Yeah, very nice guy,

1129
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: very intelligent. And then what I said about you, uh,

1130
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: staying clean and sober. True story, true story, unless you

1131
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 1: want to come out now. No, I'm not coming out.

1132
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: I mean I was a good dad and trying to

1133
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: that was all a lie man. No, No, it was

1134
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: kind of unusual too, because when I when I moved

1135
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: to this small town that I live in now, a

1136
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: lot of the guys my age didn't didn't drink and

1137
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 1: do crazy stuff in high school. And I thought, what

1138
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean, in Hot Springs it was just like, you know,

1139
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was different. It was very

1140
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: different in Hot SPS like and that would have been

1141
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 1: in our world, a big city, yeah, Hot Spring, Yeah yeah,

1142
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: which would have been a town like thirty thousand, which

1143
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: was like a metropolis. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, Billy Billy boy,

1144
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,439
Speaker 1: and then uh, your mother knew his mother, and we're

1145
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: kind of lifelong acquaintances in the town that in Springs.

1146
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: Is that about right? Probably? I mean, she she knew,

1147
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: she knew. I don't know how close they were. Yeah,

1148
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: I wish you didn't talk. I remember I remember Emmeline

1149
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 1: saying that she I mean, I remember her telling stories

1150
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: of seeing ms Clinton like in town and them talking

1151
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: them like you know, and and probably she was highlighting

1152
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: that because at the time, you know, he was president.

1153
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: So but yeah, interesting. And my sister, Um, she's a

1154
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: pretty good looking girl. I would I'd call her before

1155
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: she had take off the DC. Be careful while you're

1156
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: up there. Uh my goodness. M hmm. You can. You

1157
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: can cut this true story. It's a nerue story. Well

1158
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: you never know. You never know. We were in Washington,

1159
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: d C. Yesterday. We were missing and I were in Washington,

1160
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: d C. Yesterday. You heard it here. First, he's about

1161
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: to announce his candidacy for office. Somebody that saw that

1162
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: g Q video that I did. People wouldn't notice the

1163
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: g Q video, but the breakdown, the breakdown videos that

1164
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 1: you've been seeing on meat Eator Meetators Instagram is a

1165
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: spoof off of GQ doing a breakdown of movies and stuff.

1166
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: And somebody said when they saw me with a like

1167
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: a suit on, that they thought I was running for

1168
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 1: a governor or, you know, they thought I was running

1169
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: for political office. And so, but no, that's not true.

1170
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: I have one other thought for you. Close this thing down.

1171
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. Uh, under your under Louis Dill

1172
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 1: and Charlie and I can't remember how it worked in

1173
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: but I didn't like it that the guy couldn't kill

1174
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: a turkey. I mean, you're like going, Okay, I'm gonna

1175
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: send you out to where you can possibly get killed,

1176
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: but you can't kill a turkey. They can kill you,

1177
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: but you can't kill a turkey. And I'm going, you know,

1178
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: I think there's something wrong with that. I mean, you

1179
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to just say, go kill all the birds

1180
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: in the world, but I mean, you know, shoot the

1181
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: bird so well. I don't like that. I think he

1182
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: had They had the liberty to be able to do that,

1183
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: but I think just the better part of discretion and

1184
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: for building the case. Like if they showed up in

1185
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 1: the court and they said target number one killed fifty

1186
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: and I killed forty nine, you know, saggeration, no, no, no,

1187
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: and I'm the undercover agent. So I think I think

1188
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 1: they felt the freedom too, but they just tried not to.

1189
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: But is that true, Brent, That's correct? You know that

1190
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest challenge you always think

1191
01:09:54,120 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 1: about the challenges is having an alter alternative, uh no,

1192
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: identity and life and everything but they didn't have any

1193
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: rules and we did that. That was the hard part. Yeah,

1194
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: I mean him shooting a twenty two so he could miss.

1195
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm like going, hey man, you got the wrong guy.

1196
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 1: Go get Misty to go undercover doing this. So anyway,

1197
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: very good? Ye is that because I can't shoot another thing.

1198
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: I was real curious about the sentences. I mean, that's

1199
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,759
Speaker 1: that intrigues me. You know, Okay, this guy got six months,

1200
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: this guy got six years. They didn't go to jail.

1201
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: If you want to hear about that, good luck, because

1202
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: there is nothing about this on the end of I

1203
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: looked it up, and you know what I found was

1204
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: Bear Grease Surrender is about I mean the Bear Grease

1205
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: podcast was like bam bam bam bambat Operation Red Buttons. Yeah.

1206
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: I spent I spent an hour looking for it. I

1207
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: finally found one listing on eBay of a September issue

1208
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: of Turkey Call. It was just a title and it

1209
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: had every article listed and one of the article titles

1210
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: was Operation Redbud And there was no photos, there was none,

1211
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: nothing online. And I was like, I've got a buddy

1212
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 1: who is big into the history of the n WTF

1213
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 1: Nathaniel Maddox, the guy that I was like, hey, man,

1214
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: do you have the September issue of the Turkey Call?

1215
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, I got this right here on

1216
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: the back of my toilet. So he went down to

1217
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: his office yesterday or the next day and took pictures

1218
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: of the one article. So in the bust they called

1219
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: the editor for the Turkey Call up to Ohio that

1220
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: day of flew up there because the n WTF had

1221
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: provided a ton of money to the Ohio tipline, which

1222
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:55,440
Speaker 1: is how this whole thing got started. So the NWTF

1223
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: was helping to fund the tip line that was like, hey,

1224
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: so and so was killing whatever and they get a

1225
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: reward from the n w TF. So the editor was

1226
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: actually there at the busts and wrote an article on it. Interesting,

1227
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 1: none of this is online. Yeah, yeah, So I tasked

1228
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: Isaac because what I wanted to do at the end

1229
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: of the podcast was to go target number one. Spent

1230
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: you know, so much time in jail and how to

1231
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: do this and lost is this? And sadly, I'm afraid

1232
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: we'd be a little disappointed if we knew what. I

1233
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 1: think that's the reason why, or partially I bet they

1234
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: got off. I don't know, there's a lot I've heard.

1235
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: I have heard people like off the record, and I

1236
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: can't even remember exactly who told me this. But when

1237
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 1: you're when you're a the judge and you hear a

1238
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: wildlife case, sometimes it doesn't translate too as significant. Achromemost like, yeah,

1239
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 1: but that's not a real crime. And I'm not saying

1240
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: it's a judge's fault, but I'm just saying the system

1241
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: is not geared to just fry people for wildlife crimes.

1242
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: And uh and you know, to those of us on

1243
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 1: this side of it that love wildlife wanted, like are

1244
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: playing this game, this conservation game, Like we see how

1245
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: serious it is. But when they're the next guy is

1246
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: a guy that murdered somebody, it's like it's a little

1247
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 1: bit you know, I kind of agree with that, but

1248
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, you you need your law strong enough to

1249
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 1: stop other people from participating and where And it's like,

1250
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: how do you price your product? Well, price it as

1251
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 1: high as you can until it quits selling, and back

1252
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: off a little bit, you know. So when Louis Dell

1253
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: and Charlie and Stony Edwards, Charlie's son told me this

1254
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: when Louis Dell or he's the one that brought it

1255
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: to my attention. When Louis Dell and Charlie were doing

1256
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: what they were doing back in the eighties and nineties,

1257
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 1: literally it was like a misdemeanor ticket, like if you

1258
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: killed the turkey, got caught killing turkey, which they did

1259
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,320
Speaker 1: a couple of times, pay a three fine, go to

1260
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: the courthouse, pay the money, go back and kill another one.

1261
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: You know. Charlie said, well, it's cost me about forty

1262
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: cents a bird because he got caught one time, but

1263
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:12,680
Speaker 1: all the ones he killed, he divided the amount of

1264
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: birds he'd killed to the ticket, and so it literally

1265
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: was like a game. It wasn't the punishment today, it's

1266
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: not like that they are taking vehicles. And RT did

1267
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: say that one of the guys had his vehicle taken away,

1268
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: put a lean on his house till the fines were paid.

1269
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: You know, there was some significant stuff. But yeah, that's

1270
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: the yeah, because it's basically he risked his life. Yeah,

1271
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: I mean that that he risked his life forty yeah. Yeah, well,

1272
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 1: you know, in the end, you know what I want

1273
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:57,040
Speaker 1: to say is that, you know, we're all massively supportive

1274
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 1: of law enforcement. What these guys are doing. That's sacrifice

1275
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: that there that they're that they're given to to protect

1276
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 1: our wildlife and our right to hunt and are basically

1277
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: the integrity of the whole system. So when you go

1278
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 1: out and don't commit a crime and have a good

1279
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 1: hunt and take an animal, that is as much a

1280
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 1: part of the whole system is our t going undercover

1281
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: and busting these guys. And you know, it's like to me,

1282
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 1: it's like one big thing. We gotta have it. So

1283
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: thanks Print for being after Clay all these years busted. Well,

1284
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 1: it's great to have the Render crew back together. Pleasure

1285
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: to speak with you all of you. Um hey met

1286
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: either Metior Black Friday sales almost done. Hey, we haven't

1287
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: addressed that. It's almost Thanksgiving. People are listening to this

1288
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: on the day that comes out. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving,

1289
01:15:55,120 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 1: Enjoy your family, be thankful. Andy Brown says, Thanksgiving Day,

1290
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: he's a great day to hunt always. It's the opener

1291
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: for the South Sentner Ducks in Missouri. Say that again,

1292
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: it's the opener for the South Swner Ducks Missouri. Okay, Hey,

1293
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: yesterday afternoon would have been a good day to hunt.

1294
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: I saw more deer driving from the highways. Let me

1295
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: to my house. At deer everywhere. It was a good

1296
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 1: day to hunt. He killed one yesterday. I killed the

1297
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,640
Speaker 1: duck yesterday. And one of my uh good friends from

1298
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: Rock I visited with him this week and he's a

1299
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: great hunter, and uh, he said, he talked about you.

1300
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, I'd like to make clay sometime. And

1301
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 1: he said, by the way, Monday, I forget what day

1302
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 1: this was, he said, is the red moon. He said

1303
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 1: that should be the best day of the old year

1304
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: to hunt, the red moon, Monday or Tuesday of this

1305
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: last week blood moon. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty too.

1306
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: It was. It was pretty amazing. The kids and I

1307
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: went out and looked at it and we had a

1308
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 1: really good view of it, and it was it was beautiful. Yeah,

1309
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 1: it's snow ridiculous talking about yeah tonight so much. Thank

1310
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: you for listening to the Burgaris Podcast.