WEBVTT - Thoma Bravo Co-Founder and Managing Partner Orlando Bravo

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 2>Donny Berger is speaking with Tolma Bravo founder Orlando Bravo

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<v Speaker 2>at the LAVKA conference here in New York.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's listen it, or Orlando. There's so much change happening

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<v Speaker 3>right now in the industry, but you started your career

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<v Speaker 3>also at a moment of change. I would love to

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<v Speaker 3>get into that because you started as a banker at

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<v Speaker 3>Morgan Stanley. The lore of your career goes is that

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<v Speaker 3>you're often tried by your managers to pigeonhole you into

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<v Speaker 3>just Latin. But here, you say, here the expert in

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<v Speaker 3>private capital when it comes to software in tech. How

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<v Speaker 3>did you end up there?

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<v Speaker 1>By luck?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, But Danny, it's a pleasure of being here with you.

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<v Speaker 2>We're friends, We've gotten to work together over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>and I organized my whole New York week and a

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<v Speaker 2>half around this conference. It's very special for me to

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<v Speaker 2>be here, being from a small town in Puerto Rico

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<v Speaker 2>with all these great investors from Latin America, are people

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<v Speaker 2>that have an in Latin America venture capital in the region.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's really really special for me. When I started

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<v Speaker 2>a Morgan Stanley I grew up in a small town,

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<v Speaker 2>may Leagues, Puerto Rico. For anyone that has been there,

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<v Speaker 2>probably very few of you have. And through a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of opportunity and seeing things that I was able to see,

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<v Speaker 2>I got lucky and was able to get a job

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<v Speaker 2>in Wall Street and they put me in the Latin

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<v Speaker 2>America Group in M and A A.

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<v Speaker 1>Morgan Stanley.

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<v Speaker 2>But next to our group, there was an equally small group.

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<v Speaker 2>This is in nineteen ninety two, that was the Tech group.

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<v Speaker 2>And people were, you know, mor instantly saying, Latin American

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<v Speaker 2>group is small. This tech group is really small. And

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<v Speaker 2>for some reason we were just when we would get

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<v Speaker 2>together every week, those two groups will get together, I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I want to be in that tech group.

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<v Speaker 1>There was there was something about it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm not a coder, I'm not an engineer by background,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was it seemed to be a business that

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<v Speaker 2>really fit young people really well, where you could have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of responsibility early in your career. So I

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<v Speaker 2>went to the West Coast. I went to graduate school there.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the same thing. I couldn't get a job in

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<v Speaker 2>private equity. There were very few jobs available in the

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<v Speaker 2>alternatives industry back then.

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<v Speaker 1>It's grown so much.

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<v Speaker 2>And at the end, a couple of people gave me

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<v Speaker 2>an opportunity of being the Latin America Group, but Carl

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<v Speaker 2>Toma hired me and said, if you want to do tech,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, come on in and I'll open up an

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<v Speaker 2>office in San Francisco, and we started then.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's also important to note even though you

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<v Speaker 3>didn't stay with Latin Investing, that you went into tech,

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<v Speaker 3>but you've always kept close ties to Puerto Rico and

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<v Speaker 3>continued to do work for the community there big time.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually going to Puerto Rico next week for a

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<v Speaker 2>foundation event. My experience thus far has been one of opportunity.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very self aware of that. Even when I look

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<v Speaker 2>at our organization today, Toma Bravo. We were one of

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<v Speaker 2>the first to do a software buyout deal during the

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<v Speaker 2>dotcom bubble collapse. Even though we were one of the

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<v Speaker 2>first to do tech buyouts, and we were one of

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<v Speaker 2>the people or one of the groups that created this

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<v Speaker 2>category that has been very profitable for LPs and it's

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest category in buyouts and will continue to grow

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<v Speaker 2>and continue to take share. I've never created anything new.

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<v Speaker 2>I got the opportunity to learn from one of the

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<v Speaker 2>best investors in the world, Karl Toma. I got the

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to learn from the best operator I'll ever meet,

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<v Speaker 2>Marcel Bernard, the most important person that has ever worked

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<v Speaker 2>at our company during the seventies run different divisions of Motorola.

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<v Speaker 2>We grab both concepts and just applied in to an

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<v Speaker 2>industry that we really really liked.

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<v Speaker 3>What a time to be doing that, though, helping found

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<v Speaker 3>Tomo Bravo in two thousand and eight. Really is the

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<v Speaker 3>tech bubble, the remnants of it, the financial crisis a

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<v Speaker 3>suchial a moment in time. How does how did that

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<v Speaker 3>help guide you? How you grew Tomo Bravo and how

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<v Speaker 3>you think about this market today, especially when so many

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<v Speaker 3>parallels are being drawn between what's happening and the AI

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<v Speaker 3>at the moment tack bubble of the two thousands.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and by the way, to win with Puerto Rico. Therefore,

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<v Speaker 2>since I was given so many opportunities, our whole business

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<v Speaker 2>is based on giving opportunities to existing management, to our people,

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<v Speaker 2>promoting from within and in Puerto Rico to try to

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<v Speaker 2>change the opportunity set so the more people participate and

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<v Speaker 2>have an equal chance. That's kind of what I try

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<v Speaker 2>to do there in terms of what what happened during

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<v Speaker 2>the bubble, One important lesson is to focus on the

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<v Speaker 2>business and the numbers that are right in front of

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<v Speaker 2>you instead of being too affected by the noise. These

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<v Speaker 2>are general things that are going on right now. AI

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be transformative. It's going to be so powerful,

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be so exciting, and it's very very

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<v Speaker 2>new and very early. So many people will be are

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<v Speaker 2>paralyzed now, including LPs, to say, do I touch this

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<v Speaker 2>area a services company? To I touch a software company,

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<v Speaker 2>is it's going to be disrupted. I just get these

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<v Speaker 2>inputs all the time of how everything is going to

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<v Speaker 2>change overnight. It will change significantly, but it will be

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<v Speaker 2>an evolution. In right after the dot com bubble burst,

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<v Speaker 2>but I don't know who remembers and who was there

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<v Speaker 2>Around that time, people thought that enterprise software was dead.

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<v Speaker 2>One article after the other, these stocks traded at one

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<v Speaker 2>and two dollars a share. Can you believe that it's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the greatest industry's one point five trillion dollar

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<v Speaker 2>economy today. We made a lot of mistakes before that,

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<v Speaker 2>but we would go to these companies and they would

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<v Speaker 2>let us look at all their files. We'd say, no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a good business. All the customers are renewing,

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<v Speaker 2>they're buying more. They really need to use these products.

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<v Speaker 2>So just focusing on the details and the business really

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<v Speaker 2>helps you do something a little bit different than everybody else.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's interesting because it's a two track, and I

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<v Speaker 3>want to get into software more, but it feels like

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<v Speaker 3>a two t you're describing LP's being frozen on legacy

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<v Speaker 3>tech or evolving tech, let's call it. And then on

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<v Speaker 3>the other side, a frenzy around AI and huge valuations

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<v Speaker 3>that a lot of these private capital or public market

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<v Speaker 3>companies are getting around AI. Do you look at that

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<v Speaker 3>and say we've gone too far?

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<v Speaker 2>Look, AI and software go together. That is becoming clearer

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<v Speaker 2>and clearer. Look at the two hundred and fifty billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollar market cap software companies.

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<v Speaker 1>They have.

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<v Speaker 2>Absorbed AI and now they're selling huge augentic solutions to

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<v Speaker 2>their customers. We have a portfolio of about thirty billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars in revenue. Now we're private equity, so we can

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<v Speaker 2>react faster than other forms of governance. All of our

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<v Speaker 2>companies now have big AI solutions embedded in their products,

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<v Speaker 2>or identic solutions to close the loop. Another available markets

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<v Speaker 2>are tam total of market has double tripled. It really

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<v Speaker 2>really goes together. It's not like this new thing where

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<v Speaker 2>the corporate enterprise would completely change all of their processes,

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<v Speaker 2>all of their technology, all of their interdependencies. AI will

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<v Speaker 2>create new solutions and new use cases, many of which

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<v Speaker 2>will allow people to use technology more than they were

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<v Speaker 2>doing before. Look, there's so many solutions today that exist

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<v Speaker 2>that allow customers to save half of the cost in

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<v Speaker 2>many items in supply chain, in many, many, many categories,

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<v Speaker 2>and right now society or companies use them five ten percent.

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<v Speaker 1>So it all takes time, but once again, it goes together.

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<v Speaker 3>There is, at least you can see in public market

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<v Speaker 3>those nerves. Salesforce Adobe, some of the worst performing stocks

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<v Speaker 3>underperform the s and fed down think about twenty two

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<v Speaker 3>percent year to date because of that. And maybe that's

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<v Speaker 3>a correct way to look at those specific companies. Maybe not.

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<v Speaker 3>Has there been a valuation reset in private capital as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Well?

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<v Speaker 3>And to what degree does that hurt you or does

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<v Speaker 3>it present opportunities?

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<v Speaker 2>The chairman said that he's an optimist, and I'm always

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<v Speaker 2>an optimist. When you own a company, you always have

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<v Speaker 2>opportunities now you mentioned a couple of stocks, great great companies. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>is their valuations and multiples down because there's so MANI threat?

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<v Speaker 2>Or are there multiples down because their growth rate has

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<v Speaker 2>gone down? We really think it's the latter. Investors buy numbers.

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<v Speaker 2>They put money out and they buy numbers. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest investors do. The rest is noise and the

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<v Speaker 2>market is highly highly highly efficient. So I don't I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that there's been this rerating of the sector

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<v Speaker 2>because of AI, because really smart investors agree that this,

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<v Speaker 2>over time will help these companies that are trusted by

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<v Speaker 2>the customers, that have proprietary data that are embedded in

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<v Speaker 2>their systems.

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<v Speaker 1>It's helpful.

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<v Speaker 2>I cannot even begin to describe how helpful it is.

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<v Speaker 3>Does it at all though put pressure on margins? For example,

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<v Speaker 3>if you have someone that says, all right, I can

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<v Speaker 3>find a cheaper solution that's AI driven. It doesn't take

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<v Speaker 3>as much, it doesn't cost as much. Does the whole

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<v Speaker 3>industry pricing need to change because of the AI offering.

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<v Speaker 2>There's always the question whether software is econ one oh

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<v Speaker 2>one where price equesst marginal cost. You build all these products,

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<v Speaker 2>but the marginal cost of delivering one is extremely low,

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<v Speaker 2>so you kind of raise to the bottom and you

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<v Speaker 2>have to control discounting the key and what we try

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<v Speaker 2>to do is have the lowest cost of production, have

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<v Speaker 2>the most efficient company there is. So when we do

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<v Speaker 2>buy these billion dollar companies, we are very upfront that

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<v Speaker 2>the first course of action is we're going to reduce

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<v Speaker 2>the cost of the business, try to get it to

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<v Speaker 2>a forty percent and margin usually from zero. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you have the best run company making the right investment decisions,

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<v Speaker 2>you can invest plenty in AI because you're not wasting

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of money in other activities or trying activities

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<v Speaker 2>that the company doesn't even have a core competency in doing.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Considering you've done that to so many companies, I'd

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<v Speaker 3>love to know how you're using AI internally. What about Toma,

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<v Speaker 3>Bravo's own processes. How are you utilizing AI.

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<v Speaker 1>To grab information?

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<v Speaker 2>It's really and I think most companies are using it

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<v Speaker 2>that way, right We all ask consumers use it to

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<v Speaker 2>ask questions, get quick data. Search companies as well are

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<v Speaker 2>using it in that way. We're using it to get

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<v Speaker 2>information a lot quicker. For example, at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the quarter. We love those quarter ends. Now it's October

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<v Speaker 2>because companies have a January fiscal your end. That's something

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<v Speaker 2>that SaaS Companies did a while ago. But as we

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<v Speaker 2>come to the end of October, instead of me having

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<v Speaker 2>to call every single partner across our portfolio of sixty companies,

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<v Speaker 2>I just know the bookings results and you kind of

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<v Speaker 2>can consume that pretty quickly and say, oh, is this

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<v Speaker 2>are being good trends? And that really informs how you

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<v Speaker 2>invest in companies as well. All your pipeline of deals

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<v Speaker 2>is the industry slowing down, our customers buying more. But

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<v Speaker 2>the ability to consume information very quickly in data is

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<v Speaker 2>how we use it.

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<v Speaker 3>I talked to one of your competitors, who maybe will

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<v Speaker 3>remain nameless, that so that they were experimenting with an

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<v Speaker 3>ai IC member that they would feed at all of

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<v Speaker 3>its information and all the decisions they made, and you

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<v Speaker 3>almost get kind of a vote or she I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think we can gender these things on the IC. Would

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<v Speaker 3>you ever do something like that? Would you use that

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<v Speaker 3>for actual decision making?

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<v Speaker 2>That would be pretty cool. I mean we would, and

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard some VC firms have done that as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And this ICY member shows up and then has the

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<v Speaker 2>most power, and how could they possibly be wrong. They

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<v Speaker 2>have all the data, the super brain that would be

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<v Speaker 2>fun to do at some point.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, well you have to let me know.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing is, I don't see, Danny.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing is, all these things are very helpful right now,

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<v Speaker 2>but you try to think of your time during the day.

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<v Speaker 2>I always tell our team private equity, you have three

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<v Speaker 2>things to do. Get the money, get the deal, and

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<v Speaker 2>improve the deal. If in your eighteen hour day, if

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<v Speaker 2>you really want to stretch it that way seven days

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 2>a week trying to crush it and make money for

0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.560
<v Speaker 2>LPs in an ultra competitive market, you're not spending time

0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.560
<v Speaker 2>on those three it maybe a competitor is going to

0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 2>do better. So you have to be careful how much

0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:32.080
<v Speaker 2>you're levitating and investing in projects that are intellectually interesting

0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.520
<v Speaker 2>versus actually getting that deal, which, as you know many

0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 2>practitioners here, is very hard to convince a company that's

0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.839
<v Speaker 2>worth ten billion dollars to sell it to you, no

0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.600
<v Speaker 2>matter how poorly they're doing. And it's a day to

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.319
<v Speaker 2>day we do control deals only it's a day to

0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.080
<v Speaker 2>day effort to improve the company. The head of sales quits.

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.960
<v Speaker 2>Now you got a problem the pipeline is low. You

0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>have a problem with a competitor, you have to take

0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.679
<v Speaker 2>out the cost. You have to track that company on

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 2>a monthly basis. For example, we do instead of quarterly

0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.960
<v Speaker 2>board meetings, given the intensity of our operations, we do

0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.360
<v Speaker 2>monthly operating reviews Adie Amternoon with every single company, all

0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the direct reports in the room, and these processes are

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>that is the alpha that our industry looks for in software.

0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.599
<v Speaker 2>It is incredibly huge. When we started in software, the

0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>average software company lost money. Today and after the industry

0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.679
<v Speaker 2>became this one point five trillion, the average publicly trying

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.079
<v Speaker 2>to software company loses money. There has been no operational

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.480
<v Speaker 2>improvement in the public markets in almost thirty years in

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.360
<v Speaker 2>the way software companies run. Now, groups like us, we

0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 2>started small, we started producing twenty five percent margin, now

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 2>thirty five, now forty to forty five because we're also

0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.719
<v Speaker 2>buying better businesses and we've learned. But that is so

0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>intense that it gives you very little time to pursue

0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:51.839
<v Speaker 2>internal projects.

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 3>Well, you mentioned the things that you should be doing

0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.679
<v Speaker 3>if you are in this industry and delivering share, delivering

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 3>value to your LPs. One of them, of course, is exiting,

0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 3>and this is an industry that has struggled with that

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 3>as a whole lafter maybe overinvesting. In twenty twenty one

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 3>and twenty twenty two, you've seen the rise of continuation vehicles,

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.839
<v Speaker 3>for example, liquidity solutions, and many people would say it's

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 3>just a way to provide liquidity. It's the creativity of

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 3>this industry and it's a natural progression. Other people would

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 3>say it's a failure that you didn't get the exits

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.440
<v Speaker 3>and that you're continuing things on where do you stand

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 3>on it.

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Both it's pretty controversial. LPs have gotten used to it,

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 2>they've accepted this. I think you should do that as

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the exception rather than the rule. You can also do

0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>so many in your fund you mentioned valuations in our world.

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Say you are looking at a fifteen percent growth company

0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 2>that has high quality or revenue, that is a market

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>leader in its space, that is now highly profitable because

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.440
<v Speaker 2>it's been owned by private equity. Those companies used to

0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 2>trade in the private markets for or twenty to twenty

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>five times EBITDA, something in that range from one firm

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 2>to another. Now the valuations of those companies are fifteen

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 2>times EBITDA.

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So as an owner.

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:17.920
<v Speaker 2>The opportunity is that you can buy other companies out

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.200
<v Speaker 2>on acquisitions much cheaper than you had in your model.

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 2>So you always try to use these things as an

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.120
<v Speaker 2>owner to your advantage. You then have to create more

0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 2>values so that at fifteen to seventeen times exit you

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 2>can produce the returns that your investors expect.

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:34.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's where it.

0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Comes in, and it's that optimism of there's always something

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 2>you can do about it. When there was inflation, you

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.360
<v Speaker 2>have this huge labor inflation in your employee base, but

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 2>that means you can raise prices to your customers even

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>more because these are productivity tools.

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Same thing if prices go down.

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>So what happened in private equity and the reason why

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I say the industry for a while, they're life us

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 2>its way is one of the reasons is people forgot

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 2>to sell our industry is you get the money, you

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.880
<v Speaker 2>try to transform a company as best you can, and

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.120
<v Speaker 2>then you sell that company. There is no permanent hold

0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 2>in our industry. If you want to do that, go

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 2>to the public markets, form a holding company, tell your

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.160
<v Speaker 2>investors I'm going to hold these things forever. Back me

0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 2>and we'll figure out a way to do make money

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that way buy my stock. Private equity is not that

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>the industry levitated too much, and we always say it's

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.800
<v Speaker 2>much harder. Remember when I said how hard it is

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 2>to buy a company, it's much harder to sell it.

0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.360
<v Speaker 2>So our team has to spend more time selling a

0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.640
<v Speaker 2>company than buying a company. And that's something that we

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>do rigorously, and it's something that really helped us. You

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and I were talking about in super Return. In the

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.480
<v Speaker 2>last eighteen months, we delivered back to our investors twenty

0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.760
<v Speaker 2>billion in cash. That really helped our firm. Now it

0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't happen overnight. We were working on those deals and

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.040
<v Speaker 2>on those sales for a while.

0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 3>So all these evergreen funds that are popping sounds like

0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 3>they're a problem.

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Then it's if you hold a company too long in

0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.960
<v Speaker 2>private equity, and in this transformation world that we live

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 2>in that is not linear, you will ultimately face a

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.320
<v Speaker 2>big project, especially in software, because it's not just the

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 2>technology change or AI or how you have to invest,

0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 2>it's that these companies are exhausting to run. You live

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.960
<v Speaker 2>quarter of a quarter. That's why it's tough for family

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.480
<v Speaker 2>businesses to hold software companies. Right, It's not a thing

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 2>you go from one entrepreneur to the other. And it's

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.920
<v Speaker 2>also a culture of employee ownership where employees, especially in

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Silicon Valley, need to have that return and that pop

0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.439
<v Speaker 2>in their options and that restricted stock. So if you

0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 2>hold these things for twenty thirty years, I mean, we

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 2>would love to. It'll be better for our business, will

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.360
<v Speaker 2>make more money, but it's not the way to really

0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 2>serve your customers as LPs.

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, as you.

0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.680
<v Speaker 3>Mentioned when we had spoken earlier this summer, you were

0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 3>really outfront with saying private equity has lost its way.

0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.479
<v Speaker 3>Where do we stand in that cycle?

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Now?

0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 3>Every now and then you hear news report of a

0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.960
<v Speaker 3>company or a fund that's tried to fundraise it doesn't

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 3>do so as successfully as it has in the past.

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.359
<v Speaker 3>Where are we out in the shakeout? Are we about

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.000
<v Speaker 3>to see some real visible pain between the haves and

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:10.600
<v Speaker 3>have nots?

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.560
<v Speaker 2>We are in the middle of the shakeout. It's when

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.120
<v Speaker 2>you see the few funds that raise all this great

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 2>amount of money. They have two things. They have great

0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.159
<v Speaker 2>performance and they have liquidity to their LPs.

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 1>They have high.

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:31.240
<v Speaker 2>DPIs the investors in private equity states sovereign wealth funds.

0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.920
<v Speaker 2>That's where most of the capital comes from the big money.

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 2>Eighty percent of the money. Their boards still believe in

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 2>private equity. The ten year performance beats everything, the fifteen

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 2>year performance, the twenty year performance. The challenge is they

0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.119
<v Speaker 2>have an allocation usually to private equity or fifteen percent.

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Some are growing in a little bit from thirteen, others

0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 2>may be decreasing depending on their portfolios. That investor base

0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.920
<v Speaker 2>or that allocation is very stable, which is really nice

0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.240
<v Speaker 2>for us and for the industry. But that allocation is

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.399
<v Speaker 2>stable because people get money back and they redeploy the money.

0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.000
<v Speaker 2>If not, that allocation would grow on indefinitely. So when

0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.160
<v Speaker 2>we meet with our own investors, we have a sheet

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.520
<v Speaker 2>for every one of them, and that's the one piece

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.600
<v Speaker 2>of paper we have is how much money they've given us,

0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 2>how much money we've given back, and therefore how much

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>money maybe they.

0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Have left to redeploy.

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 2>Because also as a manager, they cannot be or we

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 2>would love to one hundred percent concentrated into Mobravo by

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.400
<v Speaker 2>continuing to give us capital. Then they need manager diversification.

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.879
<v Speaker 2>So the people that have don't have liquidity and are

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.159
<v Speaker 2>having problems, they're just going to go away.

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.240
<v Speaker 1>And I've never seen that in the industry.

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 2>In thirty years, the best managers are going to get

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot more money, and we're seeing that also in

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the business.

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.399
<v Speaker 3>What does it look like for funds to just go away?

0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.760
<v Speaker 3>Is it they kind of quietly wind down? Does more

0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.359
<v Speaker 3>consolidation happen? Do you have some really high profile shakeouts?

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.119
<v Speaker 3>What exactly does that even look like.

0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 2>We're seeing a lot of funds wind down and close

0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.400
<v Speaker 2>we meet with you know, we have most of our

0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.520
<v Speaker 2>our partners are most of the states and most of

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the sovereign wealth funds, and I spend about twenty five

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to thirty percent of my time with them to see

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 2>how our performance matches up to our competitors, to see

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 2>how they're doing. How else could we help them? Are

0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.960
<v Speaker 2>we doing enough co invest We are so close to

0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.479
<v Speaker 2>our partners and they are very open, and they tell us,

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.640
<v Speaker 2>we're really worried about these dormant or zombie funds because

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 2>they've lost half their team, they've come to do something else,

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.560
<v Speaker 2>and they're senior people know that they're wind down the

0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 2>portfolio and that there's no future future fundraise. It is

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 2>still private equity is still a bit of a momentum business.

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 2>When you're returning a lot of money. Your people have

0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 2>confidence to put money out, Investors have confidence to give

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.480
<v Speaker 2>you money. People are happier. Everybody that carries worth something

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to the team. People are getting promoted from within. The

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.520
<v Speaker 2>older generation didn't lose ten years of opportunity. It's it's great.

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 2>So you see that now, and now that's accelerating because

0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.439
<v Speaker 2>the added pressure is the S and P with a

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.320
<v Speaker 2>magnificent seven in the last five years, has done great.

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to compete with those stocks. And yeah, that's

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 2>where we are.

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 3>So to be clear, the issue isn't just that exits

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.680
<v Speaker 3>aren't happening. It's that just straight up managers are underperforming

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.040
<v Speaker 3>underperforming public markets.

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 2>Over the last five years, the average private equity firm

0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.960
<v Speaker 2>and venture capital firm has underperformed the S and P

0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 2>five hundred. Now, the best of the best always crush it.

0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 2>They find a way, and we're talking about losing its way.

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.199
<v Speaker 2>And for I mean, there's a lot of experience in

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.720
<v Speaker 2>this room, but for those of you that are younger

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:50.639
<v Speaker 2>in starting a firm or building a firm, private equity

0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 2>should be agnostic as to what the environment is. You're

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.840
<v Speaker 2>not buying a stock, you're buying a company. It's not

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.679
<v Speaker 2>what's happening to you, Well, you buy a stock and

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.639
<v Speaker 2>the stuff price goes down and inflation goes up, or

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.240
<v Speaker 2>this happens, or there's a terif or trade. You can

0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.440
<v Speaker 2>only sell the stock or keep it. But things are

0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:14.080
<v Speaker 2>happening to you. When you own a company, there is

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.439
<v Speaker 2>so much you can do about it. You just have

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 2>to adapt to the times.

0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 3>What do you then make as the shakeout is happening

0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:25.600
<v Speaker 3>that there's a serious and big push into wealth and retail.

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 3>Some would criticize that and say it's because fundraising has

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.600
<v Speaker 3>been challenged that people are looking into other avenues. Is

0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.200
<v Speaker 3>there a bit of that happening in this industry?

0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Look, it's new, just like AI or the power these

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:45.399
<v Speaker 2>predictive models is new. How will it evolve? Would it

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:48.159
<v Speaker 2>be a good thing for the industry and institutional investors

0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:52.360
<v Speaker 2>or not? Once again, on those things, since they haven't happened,

0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.680
<v Speaker 2>we don't know. Now, look at what I just said

0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 2>about institutions that fifteen percent. One of the reasons it's

0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 2>going to grow so much is because allocation by retail

0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 2>and private wealth is close to zero percent, So it's.

0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Going to go up.

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the huge market that is completely untapped

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:15.440
<v Speaker 2>that will be tapped into this alternative asset class for us.

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 2>The way we see it is we are going to

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 2>look at it, but very carefully and very strategically. And

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.280
<v Speaker 2>the reason we're going to go slowly and strategically into

0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:30.400
<v Speaker 2>it is that investors, retail investors and high net worth

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 2>investors really need to understand what the manager does, how

0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the manager invests. I go back to the point of

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 2>our business is not linear. We buy a billion dollar

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 2>revenue company that has no earnings, we.

0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 1>Cut twenty percent of the cost.

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.040
<v Speaker 2>We do this with those projects, even when we get

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the best outcomes at the.

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:51.880
<v Speaker 1>End, they weren't a straight line.

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.720
<v Speaker 2>So with these investors that have liquidity, if they don't

0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 2>understand really well what you're doing, they may make bad

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.280
<v Speaker 2>choices with your investment over time, just like we go.

0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 2>I've mentioned thirty percent of my times with institutions, I

0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:07.119
<v Speaker 2>really need our partners to know exactly what we're doing,

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:09.760
<v Speaker 2>why we're doing it. When we make a mistake, they

0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.240
<v Speaker 2>understand when we do well, there's a reason why we

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.439
<v Speaker 2>got lucky or did well. Explaining that to the retail

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.879
<v Speaker 2>channel is going to be absolutely critical.

0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:20.399
<v Speaker 1>Think about it.

0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, we're investing in the capital. You want to know

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.000
<v Speaker 2>who you're dealing with for sure.

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.199
<v Speaker 3>I mean, but there are other firms. You can make

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 3>the argument they're going full speed ahead and maybe there's

0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.000
<v Speaker 3>something of a first move or advantage. Do you look

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 3>at some of the things happening Apollo having an ETF

0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:37.359
<v Speaker 3>others discussing trying to get into four oh one case

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:40.920
<v Speaker 3>and worry that maybe you need to get in first.

0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>There's that fomo and you have to resist it, especially

0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:48.280
<v Speaker 2>since there's so much demand for it. I mean, if

0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 2>you open the flood gates, there is just incredible demand

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's zero going to fifteen, and people want actually

0:24:55.840 --> 0:25:00.000
<v Speaker 2>and rightly so individuals to be part of the economy,

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.679
<v Speaker 2>me in North American economy, especially in tech and software,

0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 2>where you're targeting smaller companies with owners that can really

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:10.520
<v Speaker 2>add value to these companies as as an alternative right

0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>to just buind the magnificent seven forever, which with forever

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 2>won't do as great as they've done over the last

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:16.480
<v Speaker 2>five years.

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 3>It's really interesting because there's pressure and other people are thriving,

0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:23.200
<v Speaker 3>and amid all of that, you had one of the

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.399
<v Speaker 3>biggest take privates of the year until EA came along

0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:29.479
<v Speaker 3>with the fifty five. I know we thought we were

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:30.480
<v Speaker 3>they knocked you off.

0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 1>The throne this way, Well, I don't know.

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 2>My partners were like one of them is ripping his

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:34.639
<v Speaker 2>eyebrows out.

0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:35.679
<v Speaker 1>He didn't understand.

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was a good thing because at some

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:41.679
<v Speaker 2>point we can't be the only crazy ones doing all

0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 2>these ten dollar dollars deals.

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:45.239
<v Speaker 3>I mean literally they but they up to you by

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 3>fifty five billion, the biggest LBO in history. Just given

0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:50.560
<v Speaker 3>some of the stresses we were talking about. Is that

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 3>a one off and aberration? Is Toma Bravo doing a

0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 3>huge deal with day Force and Jepson Is that a

0:25:55.440 --> 0:25:58.320
<v Speaker 3>one off? Or have the mega LBOs returned?

0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:02.199
<v Speaker 2>It's look, this is not new for us, right. You

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:04.080
<v Speaker 2>mentioned this year Jefferson and day four so that we're

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:08.560
<v Speaker 2>both around ten billion announced deals. But we did proof

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Point ninet eleven billion, Real Page at ten billion, Sale

0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Point at eight billion, Ping and four Draw at eight billion.

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we were just going.

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:21.840
<v Speaker 2>There because our strategy is to focus on our two

0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 2>core competencies. One is our team really knows how to

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:30.080
<v Speaker 2>buy the best, the market leader in these categories of apps,

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:33.359
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure and cyber the number one player, and it's so

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 2>important in cyber to buy the number one player. You

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:38.240
<v Speaker 2>cannot go in and buy the number three, four, five.

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I can talk about that all day. Why that's the case,

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:44.879
<v Speaker 2>and our second team score competency is turning a great

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 2>innovator which those companies are into actually a great business.

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Taking that twenty percent growth of the company and innovation

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and market leadership and making it work for the shareholder.

0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:57.679
<v Speaker 1>When those companies were.

0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Delivering zero cash, have them delivered forty percent cash. That way,

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:06.639
<v Speaker 2>our investors become fundamental investors in software instead of depending

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:09.600
<v Speaker 2>on a revenue multiple exit, which is completely arbitrary and

0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:12.520
<v Speaker 2>completely volatile. They depend on selling the company or they're

0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>selling the company at a twenty five PE, highly justifiable

0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:18.160
<v Speaker 2>as a small premium to the s and P five

0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 2>hundred for four times the growth and a much much

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:25.359
<v Speaker 2>better business, all recurring where cash flow is greater than PE.

0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:29.280
<v Speaker 2>We turn a revenue multiple to an even multiple. What

0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.120
<v Speaker 2>happened is as the SaaS industry has really taken off,

0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's still at its infancye fifty percent of the

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.840
<v Speaker 2>systems are still on premise, we have this enormous opportunity

0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:42.880
<v Speaker 2>to take these beautiful companies and transform in that way. Now,

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.320
<v Speaker 2>we need to keep proving that we can generate the

0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:50.880
<v Speaker 2>performance at the scale that we're doing. And we've had

0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:53.880
<v Speaker 2>some wonderful exits in the past at a big scale.

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 2>So it's nice to see somebody do a fifty five

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:58.800
<v Speaker 2>billion dollar deal because now we can tell our investors

0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.639
<v Speaker 2>we're middle market and we do middle market only, and

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:04.760
<v Speaker 2>we're really targeted, and these things are really small. Were

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 2>like you see, we told you these companies.

0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 3>Are yeah, only about a minute left Orlando. And I

0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:12.159
<v Speaker 3>know you've touched on this in different places, but it

0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:14.320
<v Speaker 3>might be nice to just put it together for everyone

0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:18.160
<v Speaker 3>watching and for trying to navigate a particularly difficult time

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.439
<v Speaker 3>in private equity and private capital investing. What are just

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.119
<v Speaker 3>the most important principles to be concentrating on it this time.

0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Focus on the business, you know, focus on your investors,

0:28:31.240 --> 0:28:34.600
<v Speaker 2>but really spend most of your time cult calling all

0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the companies. Really focus on the business. Get away from

0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:42.280
<v Speaker 2>what's the firm going to be in ten years or

0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 2>twenty years, what's the strategy, what's.

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:45.680
<v Speaker 1>My org structure?

0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Mentor your people to get the deal and then figure

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:52.520
<v Speaker 2>out a way, a repeatable process that you can continuously

0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>improve the company. Have your feet on the ground and

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.680
<v Speaker 2>focus on the business that's right in front of you.

0:28:57.680 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, do the work, do the diligence.

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:03.760
<v Speaker 2>It is so important, and don't be as affected by

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 2>what everybody thinks. The answers are sometimes so obvious investing

0:29:08.200 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 2>wise and operating that you just need to go to

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>the source and focus on it. Our group has become

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.240
<v Speaker 2>much larger now we have one hundred and eighty billion

0:29:15.240 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 2>dollars under management. We work as hard as possible to

0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 2>run it just like when we did when we did

0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 2>our first deal at fifty million. And frankly, the problems

0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>that our companies have and the opportunities that our companies

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:28.440
<v Speaker 2>have and how we generate a deal and convinced a

0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:30.800
<v Speaker 2>founder or a big company to work with us is

0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:33.520
<v Speaker 2>the same as it was before.

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>So remaining true to that is very, very important.

0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 3>That's the perfect note to end it on. Orlando, thank

0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:41.000
<v Speaker 3>you so much for joining this morning, and thank you

0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:44.560
<v Speaker 3>all for watching. Please join me in thinking, Orlando. Bravo, bravo,

0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 3>thank you