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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. What do Breaking Bad, mad Men,

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Speaker 1: The Mandalorian, and The Walking Dead have in common? Other

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Speaker 1: than being landmark shows in the era of prestige television.

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Speaker 1: All of those productions were overseen by my guest today,

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Speaker 1: Jason Fisher as an award winning producer, former studio executive,

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Speaker 1: and the founder and CEO of stage Runner, a burgeoning

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Speaker 1: sound stage marketplace and media platform for studios and sound

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Speaker 1: stages worldwide. Originally from Connecticut, Jason Fisher graduated from Tulane

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Speaker 1: University in nineteen ninety four with a degree in architecture

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Speaker 1: and Fine Arts. After college, he packed up his portfolio

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Speaker 1: and drove cross country to Los Angeles with dreams of

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Speaker 1: becoming a production designer. I wanted to know how Jason's

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Speaker 1: path shifted from architecture student to one of the top

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Speaker 1: production executives in Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I went down to Tulane with the plan

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Speaker 2: of becoming an architect. Always loved film and television, and

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Speaker 2: when I finished architecture school, one thing I realized was

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be an architect. My roommate from

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Speaker 2: college wanted to be a TV writer, and I knew

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Speaker 2: at least that I wanted to take a year and

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Speaker 2: just kind of figure it out. All of my friends

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Speaker 2: were going to New York, many of them were going

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Speaker 2: to work in finance. I didn't want anything to do

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Speaker 2: with that. And so my room Ainate and I decided

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Speaker 2: we were going to drive cross country and we went

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Speaker 2: to LA I had my portfolio in hand, and the

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Speaker 2: plan was, Yeah, I'm going to be a production designer.

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Speaker 2: I've got all this experience, I've got this great portfolio.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to walk onto one of these lots and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to get a job as a production designer.

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Speaker 2: And I did walk onto one of those lots. It

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Speaker 2: was CBS Radford the studio I'm sure you've worked at

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Speaker 2: a million times, Yes, a few times. This is nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four Talk My Way onto a Job as a PA,

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Speaker 2: which was the George Wentz Show.

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Speaker 1: Right, we have that here.

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Speaker 2: This is right when how many seasons did that run?

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Speaker 2: It didn't even make it through the first season, eight

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Speaker 2: episodes on CBS and was canceled. Yeah, this was right

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Speaker 2: after Cheers. Was was fresh off of Cheers, Fresh off

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Speaker 2: of Cheers. But you know, I was incredibly lucky. I

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Speaker 2: mean I needed to work, so I had a line

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Speaker 2: producer who kind of took me under his wing. And

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Speaker 2: again this is the as you do. This is the

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Speaker 2: heyday of the multicam. This is Friend Seinfeld, Will and Grace.

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Speaker 2: All of those shows were you know, blowing up CBS.

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Speaker 2: Radford I think had eighteen multicams at the time, and

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Speaker 2: so I got kind of thrust into that world doing

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Speaker 2: what I so, you know, first was a PA, then

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Speaker 2: I was then then I was a production coordinator.

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Speaker 1: I want people to understand when you say PA, why

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Speaker 1: everybody has the same by they kind of slightly WinCE because,

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Speaker 1: as I remember over the years, PA meant first one in,

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Speaker 1: last one out.

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Speaker 2: First one in, last one out. That's exactly right. And

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Speaker 2: back in those days, you know, there was no there

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Speaker 2: was no turnaround, there were no labor laws. It was

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Speaker 2: you know, you got in at five.

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Speaker 1: And was amazing.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing, amazing and at this time, like there

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Speaker 2: were no cell phones. You know, I think I had

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Speaker 2: a pager when I first started. And most of the

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Speaker 2: job you were either delivering scripts to you know, actors

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Speaker 2: like you and Malibu, or you were at the supermarket

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Speaker 2: and grocery shopping and stocking the refrigerator, making for Starbucks Starbucks.

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Speaker 2: But it was this incredible, incredible graduate school. You had

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Speaker 2: the opportunity to learn whatever you wanted to because you

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Speaker 2: were essentially servicing every single department on the show, whether

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Speaker 2: it was you know, props or wardrobe, with the production office,

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Speaker 2: whatever you were interested in, because there was always some

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Speaker 2: downtime and so you had the opportunity to shadow whoever

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Speaker 2: you wanted and you could really learn as much as

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Speaker 2: you could. And so it was this incredible opportunity for

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Speaker 2: me to you know, read whatever I was photocopying, and

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Speaker 2: follow and learn and essentially get my graduate degree in production.

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Speaker 2: And I loved it, I really did, and more than

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Speaker 2: anything at the time, I wanted to be a line producer.

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Speaker 2: I loved production. I loved the camaraderie. I love the

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Speaker 2: feeling that, you know, we were this type group. It

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Speaker 2: felt like a military almost, And so I was a

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Speaker 2: production coordinator then for years, then was an associate producer,

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Speaker 2: and then I started getting hired as a line producer.

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Speaker 2: Again this is in the multi camera world, but I

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Speaker 2: was also getting hired to line produce. Again. This is

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Speaker 2: the time when cable is just getting going. So I

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Speaker 2: got hired to produce, you know, small talk shows. I

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Speaker 2: did a show called Second City He Presents, which was

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Speaker 2: a little bit like inside the Actors Studio with Second

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Speaker 2: City alumni, and so producing shows like that. I had

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Speaker 2: my own small production company and was producing little cable

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Speaker 2: talk shows like that. And then also you know, Line

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Speaker 2: producing some of the bigger multicams.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this. After the PA thing,

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Speaker 1: I assume or maybe even overlapped, you're in LA and

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Speaker 1: from ninety four to two thousand and five you're involved

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Speaker 1: at ABC on Big Day, Rodney Crumb's Earthquake, Hope and Faith,

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Speaker 1: Twenty Things to Do, Second City, It's Black Entertainment, Bernie

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Speaker 1: Mac According to Jim on and On, what I'm wondering is,

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Speaker 1: when you did these shows, did you develop because later

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Speaker 1: on you become an executive, was going to green light shows.

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Speaker 1: When you did these shows and worked in production on

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Speaker 1: these shows, did you develop a kind of a sense

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Speaker 1: of which ones were going to go and which ones

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Speaker 1: weren't going to make it? Because, as we know, most

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Speaker 1: things don't make it, Most shows and pilots get shot down.

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Speaker 1: Did you since would develop a sense of who was

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Speaker 1: going to work and who wasn't going to work.

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Speaker 2: It's a great question when you're in the bubble of

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Speaker 2: your own production. I'm curious your perspective on this too.

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Speaker 2: When you're in the bubble of working on a one

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Speaker 2: specific show and that's all you see night and day

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Speaker 2: is that one show. You're not comparing it to other

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Speaker 2: shows because they're off doing their thing, truthfully, and also,

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Speaker 2: while you're in production, you don't really know if it's

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Speaker 2: going to turn out well until you eventually, you know,

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Speaker 2: see the cut and see the thing assembled, and so oftentimes, truthfully,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know if we had magic or not really

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Speaker 2: up until I finally saw the show and compared it.

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Speaker 2: And then, you know, eventually, when I was working at

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Speaker 2: the studios and we were watching, you know, twelve pilots

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Speaker 2: in an afternoon, trying to figure out which shows to

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Speaker 2: get we're going to get ordered, that was the time

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Speaker 2: when you really were able to compare them one against

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Speaker 2: each other. But to be honest with you, no, I

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Speaker 2: didn't really at the time know which ones were magical.

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Speaker 2: I knew, you know you were. There were times when

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Speaker 2: you were working with magical people with amazing directors and actors,

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Speaker 2: and you knew that there was something happening. But at

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Speaker 2: those in those days, you know, there were so many

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Speaker 2: other things that were also important. Right which time slot

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Speaker 2: was it going to get? Was this the kind of

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Speaker 2: show that the network needed at that moment? You know?

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Speaker 2: So was it? There were a lot of other factors

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Speaker 2: that went into picking up a show other than was

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Speaker 2: it just good? And especially early on in those days

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Speaker 2: it was the beginning of my career, I didn't have

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Speaker 2: much perspective, and so no, I didn't. I didn't really

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Speaker 2: know until later on, when I was able to sort

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Speaker 2: of look back and compare those kinds of shows to

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Speaker 2: other ones, did I realize, Oh, you know this one,

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Speaker 2: something magical is happening.

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Speaker 1: Here you go in two thousand and six and there

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Speaker 1: are two back to back positions you have at Disney

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Speaker 1: where you oversee Lost, Desperate Housewives, Gray's Anatomy.

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Speaker 2: God, what a failure you were, Yeah, this is a

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Speaker 2: good stuf. So I was line producing, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 2: and there was one year which I believe it was

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and I didn't get a pilot

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Speaker 2: that year. And if you remember this, if you didn't

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Speaker 2: get a pilot one year. Well, you were in trouble

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Speaker 2: because there was no way you were going to get

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Speaker 2: a series the following year because there were no slots

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Speaker 2: available for you. And so I didn't get a pilot

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Speaker 2: that season, and I was panicking, and I ended up

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Speaker 2: getting a call from the head of production at ABC

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Speaker 2: Studios at Disney and they were essentially the production studio

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Speaker 2: for ABC, and they asked me to come and consult

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Speaker 2: essentially to be a vice president of production, helping them

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Speaker 2: to manage their pilot season, all of the pilots that

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Speaker 2: they were producing. And he said, why don't you come

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Speaker 2: in and help us oversee all these shows that we've

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Speaker 2: got to deal with, all these pilots, and who knows,

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Speaker 2: if you like it, maybe you know you can stick

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Speaker 2: around as a vice president of production after that. And

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Speaker 2: so that was two thousand and four. I go over

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Speaker 2: there and I help them. Lloyd Brawn is the president.

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Speaker 2: He's on his way out, he's about to be fired,

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Speaker 2: and he knows he's about to be fired, and he

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Speaker 2: decides he's going to go out with a bang, and

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Speaker 2: so he decides to make those three pilots that you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: And again I had nothing to do with them out

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Speaker 2: like other than you know, managed production, trying to keep

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Speaker 2: them on budget and on schedule, making sure the show's

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Speaker 2: got delivered, and you know, nobody died. But those three shows, Lost,

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Speaker 2: Desperate Housewives, and Gray's Anatomy were all produced in the

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Speaker 2: same year, the same pilot season, And I don't think

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Speaker 2: people realize how much that made the earth shift in

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Speaker 2: the world of television. Right, for the first time ever,

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Speaker 2: you had three shows that were highly dramatic, high concept.

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Speaker 2: They were serialized drama for really the first time on broadcast.

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Speaker 2: No one ever thought that that kind of concept could

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Speaker 2: ever work. Right. You wanted shows that would repeat well

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Speaker 2: over and over. You didn't want to show like Lost,

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Speaker 2: where if you missed the previous episode, you know you

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Speaker 2: were out. And amazingly, those those three shows just exploded

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Speaker 2: and really changed everything, not only for broadcast television, but

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Speaker 2: for cable and then streaming to follow. So. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: I was over there at ABC Studios within the Disney

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Speaker 2: Corporation as essentially a vice president of production, managing shows.

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Speaker 2: And what a production executive does there is essentially has

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Speaker 2: a suite of shows. You get four or five different shows,

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Speaker 2: and you manage the line producer and the production team

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Speaker 2: making sure that those shows are getting produced on budget

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Speaker 2: and on schedule. And so I was there for a

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Speaker 2: few years. And this is now We've got you know,

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Speaker 2: Sopranos and HBO premium cables really getting going. We're really

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Speaker 2: lifting off with original program doing incredible stuff. And we

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Speaker 2: have Sex and the City, Sex and the City. Right,

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Speaker 2: the shows were getting really good on premium cable, but

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Speaker 2: no one was doing anything in basic cable until this

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Speaker 2: little net work called AMC came along. That's right, Josh

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Speaker 2: Sapan and Charlie Collier, and they were brave enough to

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Speaker 2: venture into this world. And you know, their first two

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Speaker 2: shows that they did, you know, Mad Men and Breaking Bad.

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Speaker 2: And so those were two shows that they licensed, you know,

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Speaker 2: one from Sony, one from Lionsgate. And they said, you know,

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Speaker 2: what are we doing paying all this money to license

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Speaker 2: other shows. We should build our own studio in house

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Speaker 2: where we can produce these ourselves and own them, just

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Speaker 2: like you know, any other studio network out there. And

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Speaker 2: so I was brought in at that time to be

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Speaker 2: the head of production, helping them to build in an

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Speaker 2: in in house studio, and so they had Mad Men

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Speaker 2: and Breaking Bad that they were licensing, and so I

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Speaker 2: was brought in to help them build build out the studio.

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Speaker 2: And the first show again talk about luck, talk about luck,

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Speaker 2: and this had nothing, nothing really to do with me,

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Speaker 2: was The Walking Debt. And that was the first show

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Speaker 2: that we produced in house, and we sort of fumbled

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Speaker 2: our way through it. But again we had incredible producers

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Speaker 2: Galen Heard and Frank Darabant, our director Frank Darrabant. Frank

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Speaker 2: Darabut right, just incredible. This yeah, And by the way,

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Speaker 2: it's worth mentioning within the context of this conversation because

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Speaker 2: this is a show that we took down to Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: If you remember the creative of the show, essentially, it's

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Speaker 2: the apocalypse, it's the end of the world. So we

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Speaker 2: needed to shoot in a place that was not in

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Speaker 2: a traditional city. Right at this time, most shows were

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Speaker 2: being filmed in la or New York, but we really

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Speaker 2: needed to be in the middle of nowhere, and we

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Speaker 2: needed to have the freedom to come and go wherever

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Speaker 2: we wanted. We also needed to be able to close

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Speaker 2: highways and do all kinds of crazy things with the zombies,

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Speaker 2: and so Atlanta was willing to work with us, and

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Speaker 2: they were also willing to create a tax incentive. And

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Speaker 2: this is what really kicks off I think what we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about today, which is migration, the migration

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Speaker 2: out of LA and New York. Because what Georgia did

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Speaker 2: was they put together, you know, a long term commitment

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Speaker 2: to an aggressive tax incentive thirty percent rebate, and we

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Speaker 2: took the show down there and from there private sector

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Speaker 2: started building infrastructure. They started building sound stages, equipment companies

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Speaker 2: came down, infrastructure started building and growing there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we have an indigenous crew.

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Speaker 2: Now you have an indigenous crew. That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Now. For my listeners who don't know this, explain in

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Speaker 1: layman's terms what the tax credits are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you get a thirty percent tax credit, which

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Speaker 2: is essentially a rebate. So you have your essentially your

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Speaker 2: your production budget. And each state or country has an

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Speaker 2: incentive structure. Certain prices, certain categories are included in that

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Speaker 2: tax incentive and some aren't. In Atlanta, for example, in Georgia,

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Speaker 2: all labor is included both above the line and below

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Speaker 2: of the line cast cast. That's right right. Oftentimes it

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Speaker 2: is local crew they try and encourage obviously their local citizens.

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Speaker 2: That's really what they want is to create jobs and

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Speaker 2: create tax revenue, and so they structure those incentives to

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Speaker 2: make sure that they're trying to keep as much of

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Speaker 2: that tax revenue in state, but it also helps to

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Speaker 2: obviously grow other areas.

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Speaker 1: So who's getting thirty percent back of what? Yeah, thirty

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Speaker 1: percent of what. Let's say, just for argument's sake, the

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Speaker 1: budget of the show is two million dollars.

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Speaker 2: If the budget is two million dollars, and let's say

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Speaker 2: the studio is paying two million dollars to fund that show,

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Speaker 2: and the rebate is thirty percent, let's say not it's

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Speaker 2: not a full it's not a full one to one,

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Speaker 2: it's not a full thirty percent they get back on

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Speaker 2: two million dollars, but it's probably closer to fifteen percent

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Speaker 2: when all things are are calculated at the end, ten

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Speaker 2: percent essentially is a refund that goes back to the studio.

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Speaker 2: So essentially they are getting a discount for filming in

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Speaker 2: that specific state. And so you know, in a state

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Speaker 2: like Georgia or anywhere else. Now this has now become

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Speaker 2: a game where the studios essentially are chasing those tax

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Speaker 2: incentives and the bigger and more aggressive and that's where

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Speaker 2: they'll go.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you're doing a show, I assume the networks

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Speaker 1: are always pretty rigid. My experience has been I never

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Speaker 1: did a cable or streaming series. I've done shows for them.

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Speaker 1: But when you're in the networks and then you go

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Speaker 1: on into AMC, I'm wondering, when these programs start out,

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Speaker 1: like mad Men and Breaking Bed and Walking Dead, do

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Speaker 1: you find that there's a kind of due diligence about

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Speaker 1: budgets and spending when you're starting out. Then the show

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Speaker 1: becomes a hit, does everybody the buddy start to creep

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Speaker 1: in on the budget and we're going to do less

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Speaker 1: pages a day, more locations, and does everything slowly expand

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Speaker 1: the cost Once you've got a hit.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, you try to fight that. You try to fight that.

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Speaker 2: It's funny. In the case of both mad Men and

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Speaker 2: Breaking Bad, neither of those shows were hits when they

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Speaker 2: were on AMC. And if you remember this one, Breaking

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Speaker 2: Bad was it's about two guys cooking meth in their kitchen. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: advertisers wanted nothing to do with that, right, and no.

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Speaker 1: One is watching it, no national geographic for them.

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Speaker 2: No, we were getting somewhere around a million viewers per episode,

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Speaker 2: and advertisers wanted nothing to do with it, so financially

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Speaker 2: and critically the show was not a hit at the time.

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Speaker 2: Mad Men was critically a hit, but many people were

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Speaker 2: watching it. It was a period show, and for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: it didn't quite catch on. But in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 2: we made the decision, or Josh Charlie made the dec

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Speaker 2: to start licensing both mad Men and Breaking Bad to Netflix,

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Speaker 2: and so they licensed those the first four seasons of

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Speaker 2: both of those shows to Netflix. So it was an

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Speaker 2: incredible cash flow surge for AMC. But little did they

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Speaker 2: realize they were participating in the beginning of their own

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Speaker 2: demise because they were essentially teaching the consumer and viewers

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Speaker 2: that they could now go to Netflix to catch up

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Speaker 2: on their favorite shows. But what it did short term

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Speaker 2: was it allowed the world to now catch up on

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Speaker 2: those shows. And the minute they caught up on those shows,

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Speaker 2: now those shows became huge hits on AMC because the

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Speaker 2: first four seasons were now on Netflix, and then you

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Speaker 2: could catch up on the new episodes which you're still airing.

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Speaker 1: So Netflix got you hooked on the show afterwards original

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Speaker 1: run on AMC, and once you're hooked on the show,

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Speaker 1: the back half. You've got to go back to AMC

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Speaker 1: to experience that's exactly right, and all of their fortunes

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Speaker 1: are brightened.

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Speaker 2: That's right short term. And so those two shows became

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Speaker 2: incredible hits them. Back to your original question, does the

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Speaker 2: budget creep once the show becomes a hit, And the

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Speaker 2: answer is absolutely yes. But as you know, more than anyone,

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Speaker 2: it very much depends on the showrunner. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we had very different kinds of personalities on both of

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Speaker 2: those shows. You know, Matt Weiner on mad Men certainly

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Speaker 2: had an appetite and I think, you know, originally wanted

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Speaker 2: to sell that show, mad Men, to HBO, and he

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Speaker 2: did it, and you know, he just you know, stuck

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Speaker 2: at AMC. And obviously the budgets on AMC compared to

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Speaker 2: HBO were much smaller and so and now that the

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Speaker 2: show had become a hit, I think he was able to,

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Speaker 2: you know, stretch his legs a little bit as far

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Speaker 2: as the budget budget went. And if you watch later

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Speaker 2: seasons of the show, you can see, you know, they

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Speaker 2: start going out to California regularly, and the show is

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Speaker 2: no longer set just in the office and the house

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Speaker 2: and the bar. They start going out on location a

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Speaker 2: lot more, and you know, the overall production value increases

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Speaker 2: a lot. So when it came to breaking bad, actually

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Speaker 2: that show remained pretty responsible. I think they were. They

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Speaker 2: were very much able to tell the stories that they

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Speaker 2: wanted to tell. It definitely grew in many ways. There

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Speaker 2: were more stunts and car crashes and you know, all

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Speaker 2: kinds of amazing builds with the you know, drug labs

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Speaker 2: and all those you know, insane stunts that happened, but

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Speaker 2: certainly well warranted because the show was such a massive

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Speaker 2: hit and Walking Dead, by the way, was a hit

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Speaker 2: from day one, that show, which is a monster.

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Speaker 1: Founder and CEO of Stage runner Jason Fisher. If you

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Speaker 1: enjoyed conversations about prestige, drama and the streaming era, check

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Speaker 1: out my episode with The Wire creator David Simon.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people think The Wire came in the

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Speaker 3: wake of The Sopranos, but when we wrote the Wire

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Speaker 3: scripts for the first season, we hadn't seen in the Sopranos.

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Speaker 3: We were writing in the shadow of Oz. Oz was

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Speaker 3: the first time that HBO had ventured into this. Hey,

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Speaker 3: we'll put it on TV and you've never seen it

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Speaker 3: before on TV territory When I saw the pilot of Oz.

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Speaker 3: I went to Tom and said, you know, you could

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Speaker 3: do a show about a drug corner.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with David Simon, go

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the Break, Jason

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Speaker 1: Fisher talks about why he left Disney Plus in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two and where he found the inspiration to create

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Speaker 1: Stage Runner. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing.

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Speaker 1: In twenty ten, Jason Fisher left ABC Studios and moved

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Speaker 1: to New York to join AMC Networks as Senior Vice

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Speaker 1: President and Head of Production. While at AMC, he oversaw

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Speaker 1: the making of Madmen, Breaking Bad, and The Walking Dead.

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Speaker 1: He would also serve as head of production for Paramount

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Speaker 1: TV in twenty fourteen. In twenty nineteen, he returned to

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Speaker 1: Disney to serve as Vice president and head of Production.

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Speaker 1: At Disney Plus, Fisher had a front row seat to

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Speaker 1: the streaming wars at their absolute peak. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: know what it was like to oversee production for all

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Speaker 1: scripted and unscripted programming for sixteen internal studios, including Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm,

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Speaker 1: and Fox.

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Speaker 2: This was a wild, wild time. Alec. So this is

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Speaker 2: exactly peak TV. If you have to think about, you

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Speaker 2: know when was really peak TV, you know it's right

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Speaker 2: around twenty twenty, twenty twenty two. This is right before

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Speaker 2: COVID and Netflix. Stock is going straight up, and it's

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Speaker 2: all about subscriber growth. Wall Street is rewarding growth at

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Speaker 2: all costs. They don't care how much they're spending. And

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Speaker 2: Disney and everybody else says, we need to start our

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Speaker 2: own streaming service and to compete with Netflix, and so

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Speaker 2: Disney Plus is born internally while bob Iger is still there,

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Speaker 2: and they go to build essentially a streaming service to

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Speaker 2: compete with Netflix. And previous to that, they were licensing

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Speaker 2: all of their shows and movies to Netflix. They decide

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Speaker 2: now they're going to pull all of that back. They're

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Speaker 2: going to let those licenses expire, and they're going to

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Speaker 2: be putting now all of their own original shows and

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Speaker 2: ip onto Disney Plus. But in addition to that, now

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Speaker 2: they need originals on Disney Plus. And so what is

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Speaker 2: Disney Plus. Well, they have now again all of these

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Speaker 2: internal studios within the Disney brand, right, Marvel, Pixar, Hulu, Lucasfilm,

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Speaker 2: and all of the others. They have just acquired Fox,

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Speaker 2: so now you've got Fox, Searchlight and all of the

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Speaker 2: other studios there. And so, among many others, was charged

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Speaker 2: with helping to build Disney Plus and build out the

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Speaker 2: internal team and process to figure out how to get

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Speaker 2: all of these internal studios within the Disney corporation to

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Speaker 2: not only produce what they were already doing, which is

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Speaker 2: making animated movies and superhero movies and TV shows, but

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Speaker 2: now they are being asked to also produce additional content

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Speaker 2: now for Disney Plus. And again, this is the time

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Speaker 2: when every company is being rewarded for growing at scale

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Speaker 2: cosby dand and so this is when the Mandalorian was born,

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Speaker 2: and that was the first show that premiered on Disney Plus,

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Speaker 2: and a bunch of others. And this is also right

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Speaker 2: when Bob Iger is now transitioning out of the company.

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Speaker 2: Bob Chapek comes into the company. I'm sure you remember this.

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Speaker 2: And then Covid happens. I was running production for Disney Plus.

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Speaker 2: Covid happens. We had ramped up production on all of

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Speaker 2: these new originals, Mandalorian and all these other shows for

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Speaker 2: the streaming service. And now it was we have to

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Speaker 2: not only you know, shut down all of these shows.

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Speaker 2: We have to make sure, you know, nobody dies. We've

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Speaker 2: got people shooting in every corner of the world. But

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Speaker 2: now also how do we then ramp production back up

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Speaker 2: in a safe way? So, yes, it was it was

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Speaker 2: an absolute wild, wild time. It was really the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the end alec.

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Speaker 1: That's when you knew you were done.

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Speaker 2: That's when we knew. I think as an industry, we

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Speaker 2: all knew that we were done. This is right around

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two to twenty three when Netflix stock went

433
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: from I think one hundred and forty down to forty

434
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: within a six month period. And that was the moment

435
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 2: that Wall Street decided, Okay, that's enough. We're no longer

436
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: rewarding scale at no cost. Cost matters, profits matter, and

437
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: so it's time to start not only cost cutting, but

438
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: reducing the number of originals. And so it's no longer

439
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: scale at any cost. It scale at a cost. And

440
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: so that immediately was the moment that many of the

441
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: streaming services consolidated. I don't know if you remember this time,

442
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 2: but there were fifteen different right, you know, streaming services.

443
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: Stars had their own Showtime had their own bet pea Cock.

444
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: All of them had their own streaming services. You know,

445
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: now we're down to four or five, but at the

446
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: time there were more than a dozen. And then on

447
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 2: top of that, you had Cable which was still producing

448
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: originals on all of the various cable channels. So it

449
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: really was both the best of times.

450
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: So you leave Disney because you feel the timing is right.

451
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: Who comes up with the stage runner idea?

452
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: Stage runner? Yeah, so stage runner idea was mine. Actually,

453
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: so I'll back up just a minute. While I was

454
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: at Disney, you know, really for the first time ever,

455
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: there was an incredible amount of content being produced all

456
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: over the world, and we, for the first time ever,

457
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: were now starting to really chase those tax incentives, and

458
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: we were producing shows not just in la or New York,

459
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: but we were chasing incentives and you know, Budapest, in Ireland,

460
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: the UK, Canada, anywhere that we could find it. And

461
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: we really it came down to a science, and we realized,

462
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: through a lot of hard analysis and working with the

463
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: governments that you know, we really could save millions of

464
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: dollars on a single season of a show if we

465
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: played those incentives right. And so I knew that I

466
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: was one of very few people who understood how to

467
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: navigate that. And as my job at Disney was ending

468
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: because of COVID and Bob leaving and the dismantling of

469
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: this division, I knew that I wanted to do something

470
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: different and I knew that there was an idea here

471
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: which was I could really help producers, production companies and

472
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: studios figure out how to navigate those incentives and helping

473
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: them to save significant money. And so that's how the

474
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: core idea of stage Runner started, and that was really

475
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: our clients. We were a consulting company to start with.

476
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: Our clients were producers, production companies, and studios, helping them

477
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: to figure out where's the best place to shoot their

478
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: project and how could they figure out how to navigate

479
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: and take advantage of those incentives. And we started to

480
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: grow pretty quickly. And one thing that was important to

481
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: me is I really wanted to grow the brand. And

482
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 2: so one of the ways I thought would be smart

483
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: was to start telling stories, start breaking production news stories.

484
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 2: Because we had deadline, we had variety. Much of that

485
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: was really focused on the industry right development and what

486
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: shows scripts were getting ordered and who was being cast.

487
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: But wasn't there weren't anyone. There wasn't anyone really doing

488
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: stories about the production world. Who's got to do incentive

489
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: what shows are getting greenlit, where are they filming, who's producing,

490
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: who are the department heads, all of the stories that

491
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: matter to the overall production community. And so it started

492
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: with a just a really simple blog again to bring

493
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: awareness to stage Runner, and then we started TikTok and

494
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: Instagram and YouTube and all of that stuff. Quite honestly,

495
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: it just blew up for us.

496
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a lot of followers on Instagram, right, Yeah,

497
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: we have a couple hundred thousand.

498
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: Really big audience. We reach over a million people every

499
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 2: month now and you know, across all of those platforms,

500
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: many of our posts, you know, they'll get over a

501
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: million a million views. And it's really surprising because it's

502
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: not only people who work with the industry, but obviously,

503
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: as you know, people are just fascinated by Hollywood and

504
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: now people love to hate on Hollywood too, So we

505
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: we've got a lot of a lot of those people too,

506
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: and so that's how stage Runner was really born. But

507
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: we've really grown on the media side and that's become

508
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: a real core part of our business, which is helping

509
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: sound stage owners, film commissions, visual effects companies, all the

510
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 2: different companies and people who work within the orbit of

511
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: an industry that is two hundred billion plus a year.

512
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: If you want to reach you know those people, stage

513
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: runners really the best way to do that, and so

514
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: we help them market their businesses, their products, and their

515
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: services across stage runner platform.

516
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: So when people come to you to avail them of

517
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: your services, is it a question of you're going to

518
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: help them find the right fit globally of where tax

519
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: breaks and availability of facilities and so with his best

520
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: for them and the most cost effective. Is that what

521
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: you're involved with.

522
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of it. It's really, you know, a

523
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: two sided marketplace there. Yes, that's exactly right. We help

524
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: producers and production companies find the right fit, the right location,

525
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: the right sound stage and navigating the incentive structure. But

526
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: then on the other side, as we help all of

527
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: those sound stages in and budapests and all over the

528
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: world market themselves to both the studios and producers' potential

529
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: tenants and potential customers for them.

530
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: Do you see that the conversion, Because during my lifetime

531
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: was the heyday of the conversion of the alternative space.

532
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: Silver Cup was a big bakery. Stuart Soon is a

533
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: very good friend of mine and his brother Allan, and

534
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: we shot thirty Rock there. So Silver Cup, all these

535
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: spaces that are converted spaces, is that dying down? And

536
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: now you see Netflix's building in Momuth, New Jersey, the

537
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: big facility. Is everybody getting back to building de Niro

538
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: built a stage. Is everybody getting back to building legit

539
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: sound stages or is the conversion things still going on?

540
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: No, that's exactly right. It's a great point. We have

541
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: what we call in the industry purpose built sound stages,

542
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: which are the ones that you're referring to a wildflower

543
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: de Niro's place, And over the last five to seven years,

544
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: there was a tremendous amount of investment because as the

545
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: demand really grew for sound stages around the world, this

546
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: became a whole separate asset class where there was really

547
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: significant money being invested into this asset class. And they

548
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: were building, you know, two hundred four hundred, eight hundred

549
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: million dollar facilities that gave them a competitive advantage. And

550
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: now what we're seeing is, you know, to your point

551
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: about what Netflix is building in New Jersey is we're

552
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: seeing now more vertical integration here, which is you know,

553
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: never before, you know, when you went I got a

554
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: show ordered at Warner Brothers, you were never forced to

555
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: film on a Warner Brothers stage. You could film wherever

556
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: the showrunner wanted to be, or maybe the star wanted

557
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: to be, and you could do whatever was best for

558
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: the creative material. Now we're really seeing is the studios

559
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: are expanding their footprint of owned and operated at sound stages,

560
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: those premium sound stages, and they are essentially forcing appropriately

561
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: so forcing their shows to film on the sound stages

562
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: that they own. You know, previously it was never the

563
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 2: business that the studios were in. But now as they

564
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: are much more cost conscious and really trying to figure

565
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: out how to save money, they're realizing, hey, this is crazy.

566
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: Why are we paying rent for sound stages when we

567
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: own some we can, Yeah, we own some. Let's put

568
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: them there, and let's make sure that we own enough

569
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: of them so that we can fill them up and

570
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: use our own sound stages.

571
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: But in La, that guy bought all the sound stages happened, Yes, Michael,

572
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: he bought all these sound stages just as everybody was

573
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: turning the lights off and leaving town. So he's in

574
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: trouble because he's got all these sound stages and no

575
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: one's using them.

576
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, Alex.

577
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: She was betting on that returning.

578
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: Well. This was he made this bet, you know, years ago,

579
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: as we were still going up and the demand was there,

580
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: and so he had a strategic bet. He raised almost

581
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: I think over two billion dollars and he said, I'm

582
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: going to buy and build purpose built, beautiful stages to

583
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: your point around the world. They're going to be the best.

584
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: But I'm also going to vertically integrate those those studios.

585
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: So not I'm not just gonna rent a box to

586
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: the stages to the producers. I'm gonna rent them everything.

587
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: And so when they get Ideal Paramount and I was

588
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: in Paramount doing Red October, they taught me. They said,

589
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: you buy the lumber from them, you rent the lighting

590
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: package from them, You go to Paramount and you use

591
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: all their stuff and pay for and pay a premium

592
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: for all their stuff. They're going to go back to that.

593
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: Now, that was the model that Michael was betting on.

594
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: He raised a lot of money from private equity and

595
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: Goldman Sachs with that exact model. He bought a very

596
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: big grip and lighting equipment, had all of the equipment,

597
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: and essentially his thesis was when the show drives onto

598
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: the lot, I don't ever want them to leave for anything.

599
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have the car wash, I'm gonna have the

600
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: dry cleaning, I'm gonna have the equipment. They're gonna rent

601
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: that all ty and it and that works. It's a

602
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: great idea. It works until it doesn't work. And so

603
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: the minute you have a downturn, a guy like that's

604
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: the first one in trouble because he's got so much

605
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: overhead now that he's financing all that lighting equipment and

606
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: all of those people. Now, when you're at forty percent

607
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: occupancy in set of ninety percent, those are the first

608
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: companies and the first people to see trouble. And yeah,

609
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: he's been really the first one that we've seen in

610
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: real trouble.

611
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: Founder and CEO of Stage Runner Jason Fisher. If you're

612
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to

613
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: follow here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or

614
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Jason

615
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: Fisher talks about how AI is reshaping production and what

616
00:34:51,080 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: jobs he's most worried about losing. I'm Alec Baldwin and

617
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: this is Here's the thing. Following his departure from Disney

618
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, Jason Fisher launched stage Runner, a

619
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: global sound stage marketplace, media company, and consulting agency. Stage

620
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: Runner now connects more than eight hundred and fifty studios

621
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: across six continents. From his unique vantage point, Jason has

622
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: watched the television industry undergo seismic shifts, first from network

623
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: TV to cable, to streaming, and now the consolidation that

624
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: follows from the burst of the streaming bubble with the

625
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: paramount acquisition of Warner Brothers. I wanted to hear Jason's

626
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: take on what each outcome would mean for Hollywood. Boy.

627
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear your opinion. Actually, Mike, my honest opinion,

628
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: Alec is it's a coin flip. I really believe that.

629
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 2: I think, truthfully, they want to be it with Netflix.

630
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: I think they view it as the future. They built

631
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: an incredible company. I'm sure you've worked with them. To me,

632
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: they're incredibly impressive. What they've built from scratch over you know,

633
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: a short dozen years is just remarkable, and that people

634
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 2: who work there are the smartest, the brightest, the most

635
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: driven people I've met in the industry, and so I

636
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: truly believe that Warner Brothers wants to be there. You know,

637
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: the other side of that coin is the whole Ellison

638
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: thing and a lot of money, a lot of money,

639
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: and then there's you know, the whole Trump side of

640
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: it and Larry Ellison and where does all of that

641
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: fall into this and is he going to put his

642
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: thumb on the scales?

643
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: Well, they've already put their thumb on the scale. I

644
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: think I just got rid of Anderson Cooper.

645
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: That's right.

646
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, they told Colbert not to air his show, the

647
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: episode with the guy running for Senna. My take on

648
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: this is that the people who are going to make

649
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: these decisions, like Zaz Love and so forth, who was

650
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: a friend of mine. I love David. He's a good

651
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: guy and under a lot of pressure obviously, because obviously

652
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: the paramount offers amount of money you can't ignore. It's

653
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: a whopping amount of money, and you've got to answer

654
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: to your shareholders about this and that. But the question becomes,

655
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: Larry Ellison is not a movie guy. He's not an

656
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: entertainment guy, not a movie TV guy, and his son is.

657
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: But whether he has the chops to manage this behemoth

658
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: that it will become. You append Warner Brothers to Paramount.

659
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: That's a huge institution, and you're wondering, is that a

660
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: ship that he has the cred to captain? That ship

661
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: the sun? I don't know, but that's obviously a question.

662
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: Is he's he able to run that company? People have

663
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: all kinds of complaints about Netflix and their transparency and

664
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: their numbers and their you know, and their back end

665
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: deals and so forth. What are they doing? But at

666
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: the same time, Hastings and Sorrandos have done something pretty amazing.

667
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: They built that company and you know, and you know

668
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: in the way that they went about it, and you know,

669
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: Netflix is a kind of a it's here to stay

670
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: and it's very successful. And those two guys are They've

671
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: got huge balls, you know what I mean? They really

672
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: really hung in there and dangles a lot of debt

673
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: to keep going to keep the thing resuscitated. Then I

674
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: think that they have more of the experience and the

675
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: skill to absorb Warner Brothers. The money on the table

676
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: from Paramount is whopping. It's a whopping amount of money,

677
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: and I know I'm not quite sure how much they're

678
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: going to be able to Warner Brothers withstand with their shareholders.

679
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: That let me ask you another question, which is the

680
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: SAG and the WGA contracts are coming up this year

681
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: and next the teamsters are next year, and these strikes.

682
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that actors over a certain

683
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: pay scill need any more money. You know, I don't

684
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: need to be paid more money.

685
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: For what I do.

686
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, if I were, see people don't realize.

687
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: I don't walk into the studio and go to the

688
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: head of production and put a gun to his head

689
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: and say add another zero to my contract. It's a

690
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: bidding process. They come to me and say, we want

691
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: you to do the movie. Here's what we're going to

692
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: pay you, and you're rather passive. Maybe your agents are

693
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: trying to maneuver that a little bit. But I think

694
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: that the actors who are more not just extras, but

695
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: you know, the lesser paid people, they need more money.

696
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: And I'm hoping that they're going to find a way

697
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: to do that because I know that more and more

698
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: people now that the issue, like in LA for example,

699
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: is there's so much less work. They're not working, So

700
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: can we get them enough money where they can just

701
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: hold onto their house. What do you think about those strikes?

702
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: Are you worried?

703
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: You know, it's very challenging right now. I am not

704
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: too worried about strikes. I think that quite honestly, alec

705
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: here in the US, we've seen so much pain with

706
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: all of the union members because there's just so much

707
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 2: less work, because so much as of it has gone

708
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 2: overseas for exactly this reason. And so I think what

709
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: we've seen from the studios from the last round of

710
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: negotiations is they don't really care. You know, if you

711
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: want to raise union rates, they'll sign it and then

712
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: they'll just go overseas.

713
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: I'm of the belief I trace this back to the

714
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: Katzenberg memo nineteen ninety four, I believe, and Katzenberg said,

715
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: we need to only pay people the big money who

716
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: bring some measurable value to the project. And this idea

717
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: of quotes, and this guy gets three million dollars to

718
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: play the judge and he's a supporting player. That's got

719
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: to end, and he was predictive. It did end, and

720
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: the quote system ended, and all of a sudden, the

721
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: studio sat there with paperwork and they said, here's the

722
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: lead actor the ten poll, and it's Brad or Clooney

723
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: or this one. They're going to get ten or twelve

724
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: or fifteen million dollars, and then we're going to write

725
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: a number down next to all the other roles. So

726
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: the judge is two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. You

727
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: find me a guy who's going to do the movie

728
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: two hundred fift that's it, right, And they put a

729
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: number to it, and the idea of competition and casting

730
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: and bidding ended. Now I'm of the belief let's take

731
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: the I don't care model a little further, And I'm

732
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: of the belief that there are executives in this business,

733
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: in this whole world of if I can't raise revenue,

734
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: I got to cut costs or both. And they're having

735
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: tough time raising revenue and raising and selling their product

736
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: on a scale that's warranting all their bonuses to themselves.

737
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: And I'm of the belief that there are people who

738
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: want to make actors.

739
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: Below the line.

740
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: Like the crew. You're going to get an hourly wage,

741
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: you're going to get seventy five dollars an hour, yeah,

742
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: or one hundred or one hundred and fifty an out,

743
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: depending on your value to the product. And we're going

744
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: to end the fee system that we have in the industry.

745
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: Now.

746
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: I think that that's where they want to go. They

747
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: might not make it, but I think that that's where

748
00:41:59,040 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: they want to go.

749
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. You know, this negotiation is incredibly complicated,

750
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 2: right because you've got a couple of things happening. On

751
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: the writer's guild side. As you know better than anyone,

752
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: there just aren't writer's rooms anymore. It's not structured the

753
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: way that it used to be, and so there are

754
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: so many less jobs. Right on a multi camera sitcom,

755
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: you'd have eighteen or twenty writers on a show. Now,

756
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: you know, on a Taylor Sheridan show, you've got one

757
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: writer who's doing four different shows, and so the overall

758
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:34,720
Speaker 2: structure has just completely changed. And then on the actor's

759
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: side and the writer's side, you've got the whole other

760
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: big elephant in the room, which is AI and nobody

761
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 2: knows what's happening or what's coming with that. Three years ago,

762
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: you know, that was the top story for the unions,

763
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: and I think they handled it pretty well, But I

764
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 2: think this is going to be the three years that

765
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: are going to be incredibly critical and no one can

766
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: see what's coming around the corner there, both on the

767
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: writing side and on the you know, on the acting side,

768
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: the performance side. I'm curious, what are what are your

769
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: thoughts on the whole AI thing and how do you

770
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: think about that? Well?

771
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: I have only one conclusion about AI, and that is

772
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 1: that the Academy has to make a decision where AI

773
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: would be rendered a category like animation. You can't give

774
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: an OSCAR to an AI generated film. You can't give

775
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: an oscar for acting, directing, writing music. They're gonna have

776
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: to come up with a list of things. It has

777
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: to be human beings interacting in this traditional way, and

778
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: if you don't do that then AI and they're going

779
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: to be a big fight about that because you saw

780
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: everybody was I was told everybody was pissing their pants

781
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: about the Tom Cruise Brad Pitt fistfight video that was

782
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: AI and you see it's all there. It's all there,

783
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: and that's where they're going to go if they can.

784
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: But they can't be treated equally.

785
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, but I don't know you're a filmmaker director.

786
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: You've been on a million sets, and you know the

787
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: magic happens with collaboration, when artists come together. And so,

788
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: of course someone can create those moving images in their

789
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: basement alone. But I really am a firm believer that

790
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 2: great content, great film television happens when you bring together

791
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: those people who have their own mastery of their own areas, skills, talents.

792
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 2: When those actors, filmmakers, writers all come together, that's when

793
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: it happens. And I don't believe that there's a way

794
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: to shortcut that.

795
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: Brando says to Duval, and now you've had your drink.

796
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 1: You had to have a drink before you told me.

797
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: Now you've had your drink. And Duval says, they shot

798
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: Sonny at the Causeway. He's dead, and Brando snorts, he's

799
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: a little vocalized. He's like, look, it's fighting back the tears.

800
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: Now that's what you want. Duval just died and with

801
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: him goes dozens of performances by a great actor. Now

802
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: I dare say that I just don't think AI can render.

803
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: They can mimic, but they can't render performances like that.

804
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 1: Deval was one of the greatest actors that ever lived,

805
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: not that we're waiting for the next Duval will take

806
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: something different maybe, but it's like what Duval did, AI

807
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: can't do. And that's the difference as far as I'm concerned.

808
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about the federal tax credit? You

809
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: think that's doable.

810
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I am the executive director of CAP, which

811
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: is the Coalition for American Production, and there are a

812
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: number of groups like US who are all working together

813
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: to try and get a federal tax incentive passed. You know,

814
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: right now, the way the US is set up, right,

815
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: we have individual states. Each state has their own incentive.

816
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: Right in California it's thirty five percent, and you know,

817
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: Illinois it's twenty percent, Land and Georgia it's thirty percent.

818
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: In other countries, Canada, the UK, they have federal incentives.

819
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: And so that's what we're pushing for, is to get

820
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 2: a federal incentive pass call it twenty percent, and so

821
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 2: this would essentially help to bring production back to the US.

822
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: We would get twenty percent here for the US that

823
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 2: would be stackable on top of whatever each state has.

824
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 2: So if California has thirty five percent and this new

825
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: federal incentive happens, at twenty percent. All of a sudden,

826
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: now that rebate is fifty five percent in California. That

827
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: now makes it incredibly competitive and a lot of production

828
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: will come back to the US. So we're working on that.

829
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: CAP is a group that represents US businesses with deep

830
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 2: roots and film and TV that soundstage owners, post houses,

831
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: grip and electric companies, anyone who's got a company, including

832
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: producers here in the US who are trying to bring

833
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: production back home. There's four legs of the stool. The

834
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: other leg of that stool is the NPA that those

835
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: are the studios who are also working for this. I

836
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: think that they want it, but I'm not sure how

837
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 2: much they care because they keep sending shows to the

838
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: UK and elsewhere. We've also got the Unions, who are

839
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: obviously working on this very hard. And then we've got

840
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 2: that fourth leg of the stool, which is guys like

841
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: John Voight and Stallone and Trump's ambassadors.

842
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: The ambassadors to Hollywood. Yeah.

843
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: Yes, so we're working very hard. We're working the sort

844
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 2: of traditional lanes of Washington, d C. We've got lobbyists

845
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 2: and we're trying to get a bill sponsored on both

846
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: the Republican and Democratic side. But then we're also working

847
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: the back alley side, right, the void and the Trump

848
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: and whoever can get Trump interested in this. I think,

849
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 2: you know, quite honestly, Alec could be very curious to

850
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts on this, because I do think that

851
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 2: it matters so Trump. We know he loves show business

852
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: and he loves Hollywood, and I think a couple of things. One,

853
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: he could really have an opportunity to screw Newsome here.

854
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: He could come in and save California and save the

855
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: industry after Newsome in his mind, you know, let the

856
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: industry go and let California become a cesspool. He could

857
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 2: come in and save the day overnight by getting this passed.

858
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: But let me ask you a question, who is responsible

859
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: in your mind for what happened a for what happened

860
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: to LA and the industry at number two? Why didn't

861
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: the studios and the networks and the powers there. Did

862
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: they see it coming and they weren't willing to exert

863
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: any influence they could to stop. Schwarzenegger was governor twice. Yeah,

864
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: he had two terms there, and he was one of

865
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: the icons of Hollywood. He didn't see it coming. He

866
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: wasn't willing to press for text or is it what

867
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: I've always learned, which is Sacramento was a tough nut

868
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: to crack for text breaks.

869
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 2: It's a tough nut to crack. But you know, here's

870
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: the thing, alec One is other countries started offering more

871
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: aggressive incentives, and it just became cheaper to go to

872
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: those other places. Go to London, go to London, and

873
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: so in many ways, you know, so objectively, it's a

874
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: little bit of a race to the bottom, you know.

875
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 2: So if you're California, you can keep You could raise

876
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 2: yours and then they'll raise theirs again, you raise yours,

877
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: and then it keeps going on and on until at

878
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 2: what point, at some point you have to stop. But

879
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: California definitely took their eye off the ball. I think

880
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: that's partly because you know, tech was up in San Francisco,

881
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: and they were the ones that really took a lot

882
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: of the focus because so much tax revenue was coming

883
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: from the Open Aiyes and the Googles and companies like

884
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: that that I think, you know, it wasn't so much

885
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: about showbiz anymore. I think people felt or maybe forgot that,

886
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: you know, Hollywood really is, it's the heartbeat of California.

887
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: It's a reason we have tourism here, and it's a

888
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: reason we have this incredible industry. And so I do

889
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: think that that Newsom and others definitely dropped the ball.

890
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it is a very hard

891
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: game to play, and many other countries got very aggressive there.

892
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: Who was to blame for what happened? Didn't they see

893
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: this coming? Well?

894
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 2: And that's the other thing, which is, you know, how

895
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: much responsibility should be bared by the studios. You know,

896
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 2: the studios can make a choice, they can stay in

897
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: film here, And it's something that I do think about

898
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: a lot. You know, if you're Zaslav or your Surrandos

899
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,959
Speaker 2: or any of these guys, they all their companies aren't

900
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: based in California. These are US based entities, and I

901
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: know they've got responsibility to their shareholders and it's a

902
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 2: fiduciary one, but they also live here and they work

903
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: in these communities, and how much responsibility is on them

904
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: to say, hey, guys, let's figure out how to make

905
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: this work in California. We owe this to our community.

906
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: Their kids go to school here, they're you know, members

907
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: of churches, and they don't have to send those shows,

908
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: all of those shows you know outside of the country,

909
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: and there is, I think a way to make it

910
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 2: work in a balance to way that allows all of

911
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: these production hubs to be bible and healthy.

912
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: You have a perspective, a breadth of a perspective that

913
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: almost nobody has. You know, you started at the bottom

914
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: and production. You went on to run these huge companies

915
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: and have all these huge successes at ABC and then

916
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: AMC and birthing all these great, great successful shows, and

917
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: now you're involved in this stage runner thing. I'm going

918
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: to keep in touch with you because I feel like

919
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: one of the things you might be doing is sponsoring

920
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 1: some forums and having some people speak in LA and

921
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 1: audiences about what we can do. And I really feel

922
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: like it's funny how I don't live in LA. I've

923
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,399
Speaker 1: lived in New York my whole life, although I've lived

924
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: in LA a lot, big chunks of time, sometimes months

925
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: at a time, and I miss working there. I loved

926
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: working in La. LA was it because shooting in LA

927
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: was the greatest.

928
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 2: It was the best, the best, right, and that feeling,

929
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: and I think everyone feels it when you pull up

930
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: to that gate and the gate opens lets you into

931
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: the lot. It feels good every time, doesn't it, no

932
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 2: matter how many times you've done it. And I think

933
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 2: we all have such a love and appreciation for the industry,

934
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 2: and it's been really sad to see so much of

935
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 2: it leave town.

936
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: Here. We wanted to change, we wanted to survive. Thank

937
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. I'm going to be

938
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: in touch.

939
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: With you, listen. I so appreciate the time. It's been

940
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 2: really fun talking to you. I like a lot of fun.

941
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: And I so appreciate also that you care, that you

942
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 2: still care about the industry, and that you're willing to

943
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 2: corporate effort in and have those difficult conversations. But you know,

944
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: having you as a part of that will really help

945
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 2: shine a big light on the issues that we're facing.

946
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: So I really I am grateful for your time.

947
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: Today Founder and CEO of Stage Runner Jason Fisher. This

948
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City.

949
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria De Martin.

950
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: Engineer is Isaac Caplin Woolner. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the

951
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.