1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: All eight episodes of The Die For are available now 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: to bench absolutely free, but for ad free listening and 3 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: exclusive bonuses, subscribe to tenorfoot plus at tenderfoot plus dot 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: com or on Apple podcasts. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: Warning, the following episode contains explicit language and sexual themes. 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. 7 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 3: My test test cool, Yeah good, Yeah, we're good. 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Okay. 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 3: I never said this to anyone. Every woman can seduce 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: a man, and it doesn't matter how does she look. 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: It's all about your skills, what do you say, how 12 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: do you touch, and how you're good and sex. That's it. 13 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 3: The most important thing. Not to give him everything. That's 14 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: the same moment. So you cannot go to bed and 15 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 3: slippit him at the first day, unless it's a special 16 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: mission where you have to kill your target. 17 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: Some spies use poisons, others use guns. But for Lea Rosa, 18 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: who's sitting in front of me right now, her body 19 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: is made into a weapon by the Russian military her 20 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: mission to seduce powerful men for their secrets or sometimes 21 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: their lives. This type of intelligence work is known as 22 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: sex bionage, and it's much more dangerous than you think. 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: What is sexpionage? Actually? These sex becomes like a drug, 24 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 3: and your target becomes like a drug addicted. When a 25 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: drug dealer wants to put someone on the needle, he 26 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: gives a little bit. He doesn't give straight away everything. 27 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: So the same way you do. You give a little 28 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 3: bit sex, you give a little bit taste, and you tease, 29 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 3: you tease till you make sure that your target becomes 30 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: addicted to you because you put so many anchors around 31 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: him and his brain in his body. Basically, the body 32 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 3: gets used to you, so he physically cannot be with 33 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: someone else. 34 00:02:42,760 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 4: To kill you. Really sorry. 35 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: Episode one, chapter one, the meeting. Our story begins with 36 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: the mafia. 37 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 5: I come from the mafia family. 38 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: It's a mafia family. 39 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: I mean. 40 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 5: Not like some of the people that you you know 41 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 5: that will be say I'm connected in all that. 42 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: My father actually did go before Robert Kennedy and McClelland and. 43 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: The interview you're listening to me many years ago, speaking 44 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: with Johnny Fratto, also known as the Beverly Hills Gangster. 45 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: His father worked under al Capone and his brother was 46 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: killed in the tragic plane crash that also took the 47 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 2: life of boxer Rocky Marciano. I have a question about 48 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: the mom, has it shamed? Right? 49 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 4: That does all movies. It doesn't exist, never did. 50 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: I was publishing a book with Johnny about his colorful 51 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: and controversial life. We'd get together and he'd tell stories 52 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: for hours. 53 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 6: I could judge. 54 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 5: I don't belong in here. 55 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: I'm twenty four years old. My wife is now pregnant 56 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 2: with my son, Johnny. 57 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 3: I don't belong with him. 58 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: After Fratto moved to Los Angeles, he set his sites 59 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: more on fame than racketeering, and unexpectedly became a recurring 60 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: guest on The Howard Stern Show. The son he just 61 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: mentioned grew up and wanted to leave the family business 62 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 2: and get into the film business. This is Johnny introducing 63 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: his son, Johnny Junior, to stan Lee, the legendary Marvel 64 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: Comics writer. My sight, he thinks he can you write 65 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: a movie. 66 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 6: Everybody who's written his first movie has never written a 67 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 6: movie before, And why couldn't he do it right? 68 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: At least as I look like a writer? 69 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: What I look like one of the audio boys. 70 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: Not long after this, Johnny Fratto died of lung cancer 71 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: at the age of sixty one. I didn't talk to 72 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 2: his son, Johnny Junior much after that. But one afternoon, 73 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: after years of silence, he called with an incredible story. 74 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: So I have got a weird thing, like it's gonna 75 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: sound fucking strange to you, and I don't even really 76 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: know how to catch this to you. Where where do 77 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: I begin? Because you wrote the book The Game. I 78 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: met this girl that basically says she knows how to 79 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: seduce men, pick up men, do whatever, you know, Like basically, 80 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: she can own any man in two fucking seconds. 81 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: What Johnny's referring to here is an infamous book I 82 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: wrote over a decade ago. About two years I spent 83 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 2: undercover in a secret society of pickup artists. 84 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: And here's the crazy part. She says she was a 85 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: Russian spy at one time. I mean, it's the craziest. 86 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 4: She you ever heard. 87 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: She told me that there's like a school that she 88 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: had to attend in Russia where she had to like 89 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: literally like have sex with her teachers in front of 90 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: the class, and have sex with different relationship from the class, 91 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: and learn how to give perfect blow jobs. 92 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 2: And I'm sitting here, I've literally never heard of anything 93 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: like this, and frankly found it hard to believe. I'm 94 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: sure the crude way Johnny Junior was speaking about it 95 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: wasn't helping any She was trained by the like Russian 96 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: government to seduce men and like get their secrets or whatever. 97 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was trained by Russia. She says to uh, 98 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, fucking give the perfect blowjob, to fuck a 99 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: guy perfectly. And I kind of believe her, man, I mean, 100 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: I really do think she's telling the truth. And it's 101 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: a little weird, but I thought, you know, if there's 102 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: any one guy in the fucking world that it would 103 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: be up as aally, it's you. 104 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 2: And can I ask ask the obvious question, which is 105 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: how did you meet her? 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: I met her through an Armenian guy named Art, and 107 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: Art's adapper, probably the most dapper little guy I've ever met. 108 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: And he said, you know, Johnny, there's somebody that you 109 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: got to meet. You got to come over here. It's 110 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: very special. I said, Okay, well what is it? So 111 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: I get there, he introduces me. Obviously, she's beautiful, I mean, 112 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: like she says, she was trained to go in and 113 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: fucking do with like fucking heads of state and shit 114 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: like that. 115 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: Wow. And then how would you described like her just 116 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: as a person in general? 117 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: You know, she's very kind, of like a cool seductress 118 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: that looks you straight in the eye all the time 119 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: and kind of always knows the right thing to say. 120 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: Every single thing I was saying to her, she just 121 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: had the perfect retort because I was, you know, I'm 122 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: not trying to be an asshole, but you know, look, 123 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: this town is hard. 124 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: A couple more questions, how do we know she's not 125 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: still working for the Russian government? Johnny said. I could 126 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: ask her that question and any others I had when 127 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: I met her. I figured if the Russian government wanted 128 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: to get me, they were probably easier ways. 129 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 4: May man, what's going on you? 130 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: I really miss you, man, I mean, Jesus, last time 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: I saw you was what my dad's funeral or something? 132 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: Was funeral Jesus Christ. 133 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: Johnny introduced me to the woman standing next to him. 134 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: She was tall, with dyed blonde haircut short and stylish, 135 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: and wearing what looked like very expensive designer clothing. This 136 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: was the reputed former Russian spy Aliah. 137 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: Rosa Rosa neil Strauss. I want you guys to meet 138 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: each other. 139 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for an introduction. 140 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, by the end of the night, you 141 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: guys are going to be best. 142 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: We sat down for dinner with a few other people 143 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: that invited to get their take on the situation, including 144 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 2: a former top breaking agent at the CIA. That's what 145 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: you have both on the spot and do I tell 146 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: a little bit about a Leah And then. 147 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: I always have to get permission first because her story 148 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: is kind of crazy. Do I have permission to basically 149 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: get fucking crazy with it? 150 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: Tell her what you're really fantastic. 151 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell the truth. So I'm gonna say some 152 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: last this woman right here and this is no ship 153 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: went through a training. 154 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 2: Thing that Johnny Junior then repeats much of what he 155 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: told me earlier in the same crass language. 156 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: I know that sounds too bad, but but it just 157 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: I'm just telling true. 158 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: So anyway, that's. 159 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: It is that is that is that introduction. Freaking thoughts 160 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: of the introduction. 161 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 4: Okay, I. 162 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 3: Mean it was authentic, right. 163 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 4: So it's often right. I'm just going about I'm just 164 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 4: saying what I you. 165 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: Know, I know, yes, I know, But there's much more 166 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: to the story. 167 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: It's clear that Aliyah is a little uncomfortable and that 168 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: there's a lot more to her story. 169 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: Never ever before I shared this story with anyone, including 170 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 3: my parents. Nobody knows those people who knew they were killed. 171 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 2: After the dinner, I spoke with my source from the CIA, 172 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: who didn't want his name or voice to be used, 173 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: and asked what he thought. She seems credible? He replied, 174 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: but her story is incredible. Anything that is a great dinner, 175 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: that's one. It was an odd dinner that basically the CIA, 176 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: the KGB, and the mafia, and I was left with 177 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: more questions about Alea Rosa than answers. And to me, 178 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 2: that's always a good sign to move forward. Chapter two, 179 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 2: A dirty Organization. After meeting Aliyah, I decided to look 180 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: more into her story. There wasn't a lot online, but 181 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: I did find a few items legitimizing her, a few 182 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: items delegitimizing her, and a social media page that was 183 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: very influencery. Then I looked into actual evidence of a 184 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: seduction program operated by the Russian government, and there was 185 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: no in depth information online. It seemed like something out 186 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 2: of a spy movie. You made such a bold entrance 187 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: into a little drama. 188 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: Two doesn't appreciate the occasion with twists, mister Bond. 189 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: James, I probably wouldn't have believed it at all, if 190 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: not for a strange experience I had a decade earlier, 191 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 2: I received a call out of the blue from a 192 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: special agent at the FBI. We are dedicated to national 193 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: security investigations of the highest order, he told me. He 194 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: went on to reveal two things that shocked me. The 195 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: first is that my book The Game was required for 196 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 2: his agents. The second was that he'd like me to 197 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: fly to Washington and train a group of field agents 198 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: and analysts on the art of seduction. It was an 199 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: offer I couldn't say no to talking. 200 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 5: You know, I would say, what do you feel like 201 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 5: dealing to that? What feels right for you? You know, 202 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 5: because I'm talking in your ranche was I'm talking a 203 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 5: visual person. I'm like, what do you see yourself doing tonight? 204 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 5: How do you see yourself going out to this world? 205 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 5: Because I know they're going to be visualizing and these 206 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 5: things are really key for getting report. It's talking. It's 207 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 5: called modalities. If you want to talk in the primary modality, and. 208 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: This is this is that I'll be with. So I 209 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: called Robin Drieke, one of the agents who was present 210 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,359 Speaker 2: at that session and the former head of the FBI's 211 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: behavioral Analysis program, to ask why was the FBI learning 212 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: the art of seduction? 213 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 4: We brought you in. 214 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 6: A benefit of what you brought to us was a 215 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 6: deep understanding of human psychology. And in our work where 216 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 6: you're developing confidential human sources and recruiting spies, the understanding 217 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 6: of how to develop quick for poor and attraction is 218 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 6: key and critical minus going for romantic interactions. A lot 219 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 6: of those other techniques are extremely effective. And you brought 220 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 6: a vast amount of personal, real life experience to that 221 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 6: with the book, and you're coming in and training with us. 222 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: It's so interesting. So I'll feel you at and get 223 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 2: your getting your thoughts and at dinner, Eliah said she'd 224 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: worked for a Russian intelligence agency called the FSB, which 225 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 2: I never heard of before, So I asked Robin to 226 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: give me a little background on how Russian spy programs operate. 227 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 6: So in general AT mirrors ours pretty closely, and like 228 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 6: their SVR is the equivalent of our CIA, and their 229 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 6: GRU that's the Russian Military Intelligence is the equivalent of 230 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 6: our DEIA Defense Intelligence Agency. Their FSB is the equivalent 231 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 6: of our FBI. They see intelligence more as a as 232 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 6: a factory event in the sense of this an assembly line. 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 6: I don't remember the exact number, but at the height 234 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 6: of the Cold War, before the KGB broke into the 235 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 6: SVR and the FSB, I think that the number of 236 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 6: employees that were part of the KGB were in the 237 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 6: millions compared to a handful of our operatives overseas. For 238 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 6: the like the CIA and DA and A are an 239 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 6: intelligence machine. They suck it all in and they collect it. 240 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: All Why, I asked Robin, does Russia have this evidently 241 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: deserved reputation as the world capital of spying? 242 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 6: The gross domestic product GDP of Russia it's like Italy's 243 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 6: or Texas. I mean, it's not huge. And when you're 244 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 6: a country that relies on hydrocarbons for your economy and 245 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 6: that can fluctuate as much as it has been fluctuating 246 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 6: definitely in the last bunch of years, you don't have 247 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 6: They don't have a huge economy. It's not very strong. 248 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 6: And so when you're cash strapped and you're trying to 249 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 6: be the big boy on the world stage, if you 250 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 6: don't have the military because you can't support it, you're 251 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 6: going to do it in another way. And they do 252 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 6: it in intelligence, because intelligence collection the way they do. 253 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 6: It is a lot cheaper than anything else. And they 254 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 6: send their messages whether they're going to publicly, even though 255 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 6: they say it's not public, but you know, killing people 256 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 6: with depleted uranium, there's a lot of other ways that 257 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 6: take someone out silently. Those things are made for public 258 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 6: statements saying we can find you anywhere in the world 259 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 6: and we'll take you out. And that's intelligence operations. And 260 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 6: it's a lot cheaper doing that than anything else, and 261 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 6: so that's why they utilize their intelligence organizations to do 262 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 6: just that. 263 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: I fill in Robin who spent twenty two years recruiting 264 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: Russian spies on a lia's seduction training with the FSB, 265 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: and ask him what he thinks. 266 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:43,119 Speaker 6: Anecdotally and totally believable, the FSB that is a dirty organization. 267 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 6: You know, it's an organization that is founded on doing 268 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 6: things just like that. I mean, they use honey traps. 269 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 6: They use it with Clayton Loan Tree, and I know 270 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 6: there's been others that just don't hit the news. 271 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: We'll get into the story of Clayton Loan Tree and 272 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: some of those others later in this podcast, and we'll 273 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: also talk more about honey traps. The honey in this 274 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: term is the agent who's seducing a target, and the 275 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: trap is now that I have evidence you've slept with me, 276 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: or now that you've fallen completely in love with me, 277 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: here's what I want from you. 278 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 6: No one volunteers the FSB. That's why they have to 279 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 6: use honey traps and train people to do that, because 280 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 6: they're dicks. If you're a foreign diplomat over in their country, 281 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 6: they're going to harass to live in hell out of you, 282 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 6: and then they're going to try to trap you and 283 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 6: coerce you into cooperation. That is not the way to 284 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 6: recruit a human being. That does not make anyone feel safe. 285 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: I ask if the United States has seduction spies, and 286 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: Robin claims that they do not. Even taking a source 287 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 2: to a strip club and using government money for that, 288 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: he says, would be a political liability. When she was 289 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: talking about her experience, you're just there and you stay 290 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: there out of fear. It's like if you leave, your 291 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: life's going to be destroyed. 292 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 6: I mean, you know this for the world you've been in. 293 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 6: That's a broken toy, and broken toys have an unhealthy 294 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 6: outlook on the world. Unless they've realized that they've been 295 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 6: through counseling. 296 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: Now find what you mean by a broken toy. 297 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 6: First of all, people that are susceptible to being recruited 298 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 6: or trafficked, because basically she's human. Trafficked is what she is. 299 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 6: There was a need in her life that wasn't being 300 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 6: fulfilled somewhere else, and the FSB came in and fulfilled 301 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 6: that need to be seen, heard, and valued by others, 302 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 6: and then they manipulated that against her. 303 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: Keep in mind that I don't know a lot yet 304 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: about a Leah's story or how she was recruited, and 305 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 2: neither is Robin. He's basing this analysis on his intelligence experience. 306 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 6: To me, there's no difference between a child predator and 307 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 6: what they did to her. What welcomed to the world 308 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 6: of Russian intelligence. 309 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: Chapter three, The target. 310 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: Nice to seem really excited to share it with you. 311 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: It's a sunny Wednesday afternoon in Malibu and Alia Rosa 312 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 2: has come over to discuss the podcast. When someone says 313 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 2: they've been trained their whole life in the art of seduction, 314 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: you tend to question everything they say and do and 315 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: wonder if it's all a manipulation. 316 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 3: I love your shoes, they're so cool. Yes, Maria, I 317 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 3: have never seen anything like this, really stylish, like my 318 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 3: son would really love it. 319 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: There's a controversial and often hurtful technique that the pickup 320 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 2: artists in the game taught, and it called the nag. 321 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 2: You give someone what appears to be a compliment and 322 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: then say something slightly backhanded so that they're not quite 323 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: sure if they're being complimented or insulted. And that's exactly 324 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: what Leah just did to me. Lee is brought over 325 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: a bottle of wine, which doesn't often happen in the 326 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 2: meetings I attend. I handle the corkscrew will I go 327 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 2: to check on my son. When I get back, the 328 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: wine is unopened, and she hands the corkscrew back to me. 329 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: I get the funny feeling that she's trying to prove 330 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: to me that she hasn't tampered with the wine. 331 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 3: Okay, right, cheers first, cheers, have your Thanksgiving? 332 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: Yes, but did you purposely not open the wine so 333 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 2: you knew I could trust the wine. 334 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 3: You left to see to check on your son. I 335 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: could drop something, you know, you know, like yeah, I 336 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: know that you have this kind of like assaults. It's 337 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 3: normal you and putting you are the same type. Believe 338 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 3: it or not, you protect yourself, your environment, your family. 339 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 3: Of course it's a good thing. That's what putting us. 340 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: He also protects his country. 341 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm not sure how to feel about that put In comment, 342 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: and that's probably just what Aleah wants. Another nag. She 343 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: then shares something else that really messes with my mind, 344 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 2: something that just may be true given what Robin Drake 345 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: from the FBI just shared with me. 346 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: Actually, like you'd be surprised. There's so many agents working 347 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 3: in America, like so many, Yeah, even in Malibu, Like 348 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 3: you know, seriously, just be aware. Don't say anything about putting. 349 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I sound like like kind of like, 350 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 3: don't say it is kind of like putting some fears, 351 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: but like it's better not really too. I mean, when 352 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: Americans discussed like Biden, no Trump, it's kind of like yeah, okay, 353 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: But once they discuss about like putting, there are always 354 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 3: many years around. 355 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: I turned the discussion to the podcast. Even though the 356 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: period of li is talking about as many years ago, 357 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: I assume Putins still wouldn't be happy about her sharing 358 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: state secrets. Speaking that are there concerns for safety in 359 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 2: speaking out and telling your story and sharing all this information. 360 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: To say I'm not scared, I would lie. Yes, of course, 361 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 3: I am a mother of thirteen years old son. Yes 362 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 3: of course I'm scared. I don't know what might happen, 363 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: right if I will beat that tomorrow, Let's say I 364 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: know that my son, even it would be so hard 365 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 3: for him, he will grow up and he'll respect me 366 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 3: for that. At least I had enough courage and bravery 367 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 3: to stand up and speak out against this evil. 368 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: That evil, she explains, is more than just puttin. 369 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: Sharing that life events is a proof of how corrupted 370 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 3: the whole system is and how the male dominance is 371 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 3: just so strong there that being a female in Russia, 372 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 3: it means that you're almost like you have the same 373 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 3: rights like a dog. And it's it's just not even 374 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: like it's not right, but this is this isn't a human. 375 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 2: The other question is, if we're going to go tell story, 376 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: are you comfortable just just sharing all your experiences, good 377 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: or bad, and no matter what people may think. 378 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: I don't feel comfortable at all. Honestly, I don't want 379 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 3: people to think that I like I can kill people. 380 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,479 Speaker 3: I'm a murder. You know, it's a bad kind of 381 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: like you know she could kill people, then maybe she 382 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 3: can do it now, who knows? You know, she doesn't 383 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 3: have this stop because on the good side, I protected 384 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 3: my country great and I tried to survive. On the 385 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 3: bad side, I'm still a murderer. I still killed some people, 386 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 3: and I still feel guilty for that. 387 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 2: And asked Johnny when I first spoke to him, Oh, 388 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: how do I know she's not still working for Russian Intelligence? 389 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: You know what, I don't know how to answered this question. Really, 390 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 3: how do you know if i'm if I'm like, I 391 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 3: may still work for puts in right, because I will 392 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 3: reveal the real truth was going on there and what 393 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 3: was happening before. When I heard about the Ukrainian War, 394 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 3: I felt that moment that I really want to speak out. 395 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 3: I felt like I can't just sit down there and 396 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 3: just be silenced like I was all this time. 397 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: Looking back in the time you were in Russian intelligence, 398 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: do you think you were a hero or a victim? 399 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 3: Definitely victim, But brain was that I was a hero. 400 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: I plainly. In my interview with Robin Drake, she pauses 401 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 2: and reflects when he calls her a broken toy. I 402 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: ask her what she's thinking about it. 403 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 3: I mean, for so many years I didn't feel that 404 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 3: I was broken. But it's hard, you know, Neil's so 405 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: hard to accept that because it's such a big guilt. 406 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 3: It's such a big pain when you realize and when 407 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 3: you accept that I was a part of this evil system. 408 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 3: So yeah, I guess I am broken, and yes I 409 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 3: am a toy. 410 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 2: As Leah talks further, I'm reminded of the grim reality 411 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 2: that the victims and sexpionage are not just the targets, 412 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: but the seducers themselves. Over this, it's been an intense discussion, 413 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: and I totally afterward that I would like to move 414 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 2: forward and share the story of her training, her espionage work, 415 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: and her escape from the Russian military. I just have 416 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: one last question. Is she ever able to turn off 417 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: the role she was forced to play? Her answer confirms 418 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: one of my deepest fears. 419 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: No, I mean, like seduction is I think, Yeah, it's 420 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: a lifestyle. It's definitely a lifestyle once you learn it. 421 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 3: It's just like habit. You go everywhere with this, you 422 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 3: live like that. I wanted to work with you, and 423 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 3: you in this case, like war, my target. So I 424 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 3: did it for this goal which we are having right now, 425 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 3: and it's yeah, I can tell this a seduction, and 426 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: then I realize that you are my perfect target. I 427 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 3: seduced to. 428 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: We will continue in episode two, available now along with 429 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: all eight episodes of Today for Volume one. Continue listening 430 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: for free on Apple Podcasts.