Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. My next guest really needs
Speaker 1: no introduction. I mean, he is amazing. He's been a
Speaker 1: viral sensation. He has been sharing with us for a
Speaker 1: number of years of his life. He talks about finance, investments, insurance,
Speaker 1: and relationships, y'all, even to the point where my mom
Speaker 1: has called me on the phone quoting m J. Harris, So, y'all,
Speaker 1: have a seat, Get your tea, honey, get your red wine,
Speaker 1: get your sparkling seltzer, get your water infused with rose oil,
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you do, and we're gonna have
Speaker 1: some fun. I want this to be a fun one, y'all. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's just get into it. I'm excited to have someone
Speaker 1: so awesome, so straightforward. He seasons his words with love,
Speaker 1: grace and a few cuss words, honey. And I just
Speaker 1: love to see him, Yes, I love to see him
Speaker 1: living his life. He's so inspirational. He makes me want
Speaker 1: to pick up a suitcase or two and just move
Speaker 1: somewhere for a season. And I just love his love
Speaker 1: for everybody, whether you're in love or in finance. He's
Speaker 1: got a new book coming out that we will talk about. Y'all,
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. Let's welcome my friend MJ. Harris.
Speaker 2: Get in here, y'all, get here.
Speaker 1: Now, you really are a finance guru of insurance, but
Speaker 1: we also love you for how you talk to us
Speaker 1: about relationships. Well, didn't that just kind of naturally happen?
Speaker 1: Now You've been a guest on here before, but I
Speaker 1: don't believe I've asked you this question, like how did
Speaker 1: you get into all things life and just not in
Speaker 1: the box of finance insurance investments.
Speaker 2: I started out doing I started doing videos about fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago. And when I started out, my first videos
Speaker 2: were always there were like inspirational stories that were funny,
Speaker 2: and so I was always thinking about that. And I
Speaker 2: think just for me, because that was the topic that
Speaker 2: everyone could relate to, is something that was always on
Speaker 2: my mind. I used to sit and watch Joyce Myers
Speaker 2: and TD Jake's and you know, all these different people
Speaker 2: growing up for my own inspiration because I was being
Speaker 2: bullied in school as a kid, and so for me,
Speaker 2: I will watch it and say, ooh, I wish I
Speaker 2: could have that effect on people one day, Like that
Speaker 2: was in the back of my mind, and so I
Speaker 2: started doing YouTube videos. Those relatively popular over time. The
Speaker 2: way that finance came into becus people think the finance
Speaker 2: came first. No, the way that finance came into it
Speaker 2: was I was being offered brand deals like you know,
Speaker 2: his X y Z the amount of money to sell this,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, uh, if y'all can make, if y'all
Speaker 2: can pay me this, y'all can make excellent exponentially more.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna be my own brand deal. And I
Speaker 2: already had an insurance license. I said, that's a universal
Speaker 2: product that everybody needs. So no, you're not gonna pay
Speaker 2: me xyz amount of dollars to sell some mass scar
Speaker 2: or what you're gonna do is I'm going to brand myself.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have my equity and I will sell. And
Speaker 2: so insurance has been my universal product that everyone needs
Speaker 2: and and it's worked out really well that, you know,
Speaker 2: because the entertainment industry is, you know, income goes up
Speaker 2: and down, but people are always dying and getting injured.
Speaker 2: So it allows me to stay in business.
Speaker 1: I mean, they do say that there are companies that
Speaker 1: will always be in business or certain sectors and that
Speaker 1: is hospitals and funeral homes mmm, alway businesses that those were. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: even through our most trying crisis of health crisis during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, unfortunately we saw uptick in all of that.
Speaker 1: So thank you for even letting us know to get
Speaker 1: our insurance together and that to prioritize. We don't want
Speaker 1: to count people's pocketbooks, you know, but it's kind of like, babbabe,
Speaker 1: if you donet spent, say, sixteen hundred dollars on a
Speaker 1: hairdo certainly I'm not here to judge, as they say,
Speaker 1: who am me to judge?
Speaker 2: But yeah, get a policy. That's always in my whole
Speaker 2: thing has been. Everybody needs it and no one wants
Speaker 2: to deal with not having one when you need it most, right,
Speaker 2: And so that's the way here to do. If you
Speaker 2: want a www dot I want life insurance dot com,
Speaker 2: it's easypcwww dot I want Life insurance dot com.
Speaker 1: Look, yeah, thank you so much. I'm excited, y'all. Life
Speaker 1: insurance is so just testimonies. Like when my father passed
Speaker 1: or when my grandmother passed, it was so easy for
Speaker 1: stuff to be done. Yo. My grandmother had her funeral
Speaker 1: written out. She said, you ain't gonna get up and
Speaker 1: speak for me. You ain't finna get up here lying.
Speaker 1: But she also had everything, was already taking care of her,
Speaker 1: crypt the insure, everything was already ready to do. She
Speaker 1: was sad, and she lived a fruitful life well into
Speaker 1: her mid eighties. I wish she was still here, but
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that she already had stuff for us
Speaker 1: and ready to go. Now, speaking of ready to go,
Speaker 1: some of us we are ready to go for love
Speaker 1: and relationships, and we not doing it right, m Jay,
Speaker 1: were settling or honey, them red flags looked like six
Speaker 1: flags when you're horny, and we just.
Speaker 2: Out here doing out here recreating trauma in our life.
Speaker 2: The thing is this, if you want to find out
Speaker 2: why your relationships aren't working, then just look in the past.
Speaker 2: You know you're more than likely recreating trauma from the past.
Speaker 2: You're replaying it out. You know, that's what it is,
Speaker 2: you know, and it always comes back to it comes
Speaker 2: back to that. And so I think we could do
Speaker 2: so much better in our lives and do so much
Speaker 2: better for ourselves once we own the fact there's not
Speaker 2: these people who's fucking with us. They're not depriving us
Speaker 2: of love, they're not ghosting us, they're not doing all
Speaker 2: this other stuff. The narcissist is not your problem. It's
Speaker 2: your fault of choosing you, see what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 2: your problem to continuing to choose them after they show
Speaker 2: you signs who they are and you can sing you
Speaker 2: to choose them, and choose these people who you know
Speaker 2: show you that they are beyond fucked up? Right, because
Speaker 2: you don't want to get the fuck out of your
Speaker 2: own way, you your problem? You know you don't want to.
Speaker 1: Hear that, y'all that that's kind of the title of
Speaker 1: his new book, Kind Disorder. But about that, I had
Speaker 1: the honor. I'm so humble when you ask me to
Speaker 1: do an endorsement for this book, because we do be
Speaker 1: in our own way? Is it because not only well,
Speaker 1: I think fear can be the root of some of
Speaker 1: our fear? Is trauma? Do you think maybe the trauma
Speaker 1: has made us feel unworthy of the best? You know?
Speaker 2: Because trauma trump You know, trauma is it's a false
Speaker 2: story about yourself. The foundation to me if trauma is
Speaker 2: that it is a false story about yourself you continue
Speaker 2: to play out within your life or your choices, and
Speaker 2: that false story about yourself. Is not that what traumatized
Speaker 2: you didn't happen. Let me be very clear about that, right,
Speaker 2: But what happened then is not happening now, and you're
Speaker 2: still playing out the behaviors that are the byproduct of
Speaker 2: what happened because you still are in some ways vieling
Speaker 2: yourself as that. Right. And so to me, you know,
Speaker 2: when I think about that, I always say it comes
Speaker 2: back to trauma. Is because at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: and sometimes we think of trauma as like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: I wasn't traumatized. You know, I wasn't abused, I wasn't assault,
Speaker 2: That wasn't just that wasn't that. It's not always that.
Speaker 2: Trauma is any experience that has a long term impact
Speaker 2: on you in a negative way, right, it give me
Speaker 2: any experience. And so I think that once we can
Speaker 2: own the fact that trauma is literally a story that
Speaker 2: we continue to play out within our life currently today,
Speaker 2: and that that story has no power more than what
Speaker 2: we give it, then it empowers us to know that
Speaker 2: we can overcome and that, yes, therapy is a big resource.
Speaker 2: So sometimes we have to unpack that story and we
Speaker 2: have to get tools to know how to deal with
Speaker 2: when that story triggers us. So I don't want to
Speaker 2: simplify this enough to just say, oh, well, just change
Speaker 2: the story, you'll change your life. That's not how it works.
Speaker 2: But I do think that once we can take ownership
Speaker 2: of the fact that it is our story that we're
Speaker 2: allowing to play out in our life keyword allowing, then
Speaker 2: we understand that we also have the power to do
Speaker 2: something about it in order to stop giving that story life.
Speaker 1: Wow, I feel like you should also be a therapist.
Speaker 2: I think my mama is a therapist, y'o.
Speaker 1: I just got We just got to meet his mom briefly, y'all.
Speaker 1: MJ is living his best life. He now resides in
Speaker 1: South Africa. And I'm looking at those amazing Florida ceiling windows.
Speaker 1: I am a sucker for Florida ceiling windows. And while
Speaker 1: it's while it's daytime where we are, it's definitely nighttime
Speaker 1: where you are. Are you finding relationally differences in South
Speaker 1: Africa versus here in America?
Speaker 2: My God, today, My God today. You know I chose
Speaker 2: South Africa for a number of reasons.
Speaker 1: Tell why? And we do we need to pack our bags?
Speaker 2: Pack your bags, okay, and I'm gonna tell you why. Okay,
Speaker 2: First of all, I chose South Africa because we lived
Speaker 2: in I knew we would want to leave the USA.
Speaker 2: We want to try something different. And by we're talking
Speaker 2: about me and my nephew sons, and so we went
Speaker 2: to Bali. First. I was like, we're gonna go to Bali.
Speaker 2: We're gonna live on Woo's. We're gonna do yogas and
Speaker 2: ship every day and I'll do yoga and I don't
Speaker 2: chan I'll do that that ship. And so I was like,
Speaker 2: so this ain't working. I'm just hotten inhumid every day.
Speaker 2: But it was nice. It was very nice, but what
Speaker 2: it lacked. What it lacked, and being honest, I didn't
Speaker 2: see nobody who looked like you. Nobody looked like me.
Speaker 2: We saw tourists, but in terms, it wasn't a part
Speaker 2: of the greater population. And people were so nice, so gracious.
Speaker 2: I never really had any racial experiences there and anything negative,
Speaker 2: but there still was a need to see people like me.
Speaker 2: You know, I grew up in Dallas and d C.
Speaker 2: So I was around a lot of people of color
Speaker 2: and just those experiences like being in Atlanta. You know,
Speaker 2: it's those type of experiences. And so when we were
Speaker 2: looking at where to go, I wanted to be someplace
Speaker 2: that was very modern. South Africa is extremely modern. I
Speaker 2: wanted to be someplace that would be a great cost
Speaker 2: of living for me. You know, the reality is that
Speaker 2: I always emphasized and I've been fortunate, but that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that every day and every month and every year
Speaker 2: it's the same. And you know, and so as a
Speaker 2: self employed person, income goes up and down as we
Speaker 2: get older, I thought about, well, how am I going
Speaker 2: to retire and maintain a comfortable quality of life. I
Speaker 2: started thinking practically about that, and for me, being in
Speaker 2: a place that had a wonderful cost of living for
Speaker 2: someone bringing the US dollar or you know, the euro,
Speaker 2: that was consideration. So let me say this. The men,
Speaker 2: the men, the men, their relationship orient Now I don't
Speaker 2: mean they're always good for you, but their relationship oriented
Speaker 2: family is a big deal. These men here, somebody told
Speaker 2: me this when I first got him on a date.
Speaker 2: This got gorgeous guy. Oh my god, picture tall artists.
Speaker 2: Oh his lists are so full, and oh my god.
Speaker 2: The whole time on the first time I was looking
Speaker 2: at them, talking like this, to touch I didn't, but
Speaker 2: he told me this, he says. He says, you know,
Speaker 2: if you let me take you out on three dates,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna consider you mine. Oh. I said, what does
Speaker 2: that mean? And he said, because in our culture we
Speaker 2: don't date casually. So if we're gonna go out multiple times,
Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the day, then that's
Speaker 2: then I consider you mine, he says. And I'm looking
Speaker 2: for a family'm looking for this, I'm looking for that.
Speaker 2: And this. This isn't just the gay guys, this is
Speaker 2: the straight ones too. It's a part of the culture.
Speaker 2: What else I've noticed here? And I'm all about get
Speaker 2: your bbls, get whatever you want to get for your body.
Speaker 2: I'm not against that, but I have noticed that the
Speaker 2: men here tend to have a great appreciation for women
Speaker 2: with natural bodies as well as women with enhanced bodies.
Speaker 2: When I came from LA I felt like the women
Speaker 2: who tend to get a lot more intentional people with
Speaker 2: women who may have had the resources to enhance And
Speaker 2: God bless you for having the resources, But what about
Speaker 2: for the woman who doesn't have those resources?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And I find that you know you, It's not uncommon
Speaker 2: to see women with their natural body shape. Who stand
Speaker 2: beside beside a man who's fine as hell, fine as hell,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think it's because our natural beauty
Speaker 2: standard as people from the African diaspora, it's appreciated here, right,
Speaker 2: because our beauty standard is the standard. So we're not
Speaker 2: adapting to any other standing on. So it's a beautiful
Speaker 2: thing here.
Speaker 1: Come on, we are in the Church of M. J. Harris.
Speaker 1: So I would love for you to maybe have a
Speaker 1: workshop one day or a retreat in South Africa. Let
Speaker 1: us know. I'm gonna register. I'll be there.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I will be there. Now, You're gonna love it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna love it.
Speaker 1: I've never been and I've never been, and I need
Speaker 1: to go. I need to be.
Speaker 2: Now. You know you have a big fan base here.
Speaker 2: You do know that, right?
Speaker 1: Thank God?
Speaker 2: Yes, you have a massive fan base here. I can
Speaker 2: guarantee you that. Okay, look at your analytics you're gonna see.
Speaker 2: But beyond that, I can guarantee you that because of
Speaker 2: the fact I've heard your music playing here. Okay, they
Speaker 2: have a huge appreciation for African American produced music. And
Speaker 2: so that was one thing that was shocked by me
Speaker 2: just overall African American culture because I'm gonna come here,
Speaker 2: anybody's gonna know who I am. That was not the case,
Speaker 2: and so that was I was looking forward to that,
Speaker 2: but that didn't happen. And so but the reality is
Speaker 2: that they appreciate you, but the way they react to you,
Speaker 2: they have a different relationship with things, so to speak,
Speaker 2: than I think we experienced in America. Sometimes they can
Speaker 2: be a little overwhelming when they see you here, they're
Speaker 2: very respectful. Hey, I don't mean to disturb you. I
Speaker 2: really like your work. You know, God's blessings to you,
Speaker 2: and they walk away. It's none of that following you around,
Speaker 2: taking pictures of you, all that kind of stuff. So
Speaker 2: it's a really nice environment where you can go place
Speaker 2: them feel comfortable without having to think about other factors.
Speaker 2: You may think about other environments.
Speaker 1: I'm on the way. Do you miss it here in
Speaker 1: the United States? Do you miss us? MJ I miss you?
Speaker 1: So he don't miss y'all is what he said. He
Speaker 1: does not miss it over here. You look absolutely beautiful, thriving, glowing.
Speaker 1: I'm really really happy for you, your nephews and everything
Speaker 1: they've got going on. And thank you so much for
Speaker 1: showing us you know that it had to have been
Speaker 1: a divine burden on placed on you to have the
Speaker 1: care that you have for your nephew sons. So thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I want to go back to something
Speaker 1: you mentioned about a young man who said that over
Speaker 1: here we are about family after three dates your mind. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't know how that's how that would be taken
Speaker 1: here in America. We probably be like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: and that you did? You do? I need to do
Speaker 1: a Google search on your criminal background? Wait a minute.
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering. Or the opposite is, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: no one has ever said anything like that to me.
Speaker 1: Then you give them their all and you make them
Speaker 1: such such a priority. Is that good to do? Is
Speaker 1: making someone so much a priority?
Speaker 2: So I'll tell you this just for context. The first
Speaker 2: time I heard that, I thought he was crazy as fuck. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm like, he is crazy as fuck him a whole
Speaker 2: lot after that, Yeah, yeah, I say this is a
Speaker 2: little weird. But then as I start talking to other
Speaker 2: people like this man, somebody, can you believe this? And
Speaker 2: they're like, no, he's serious and not understood that. That's
Speaker 2: the culture here you know, it's a very patriarchal. Patriarchal culture,
Speaker 2: So what you find is that the men are much
Speaker 2: more assertive about I like you, I want you, right,
Speaker 2: especially I do you as a woman or a man
Speaker 2: of value and a value meaning that that you fit
Speaker 2: into their picture. They could see you raising kids, and
Speaker 2: they could see that. They are very vocal about I
Speaker 2: want you, And so I understand that just culturally they are,
Speaker 2: and I've experienced that they are less reticent to say
Speaker 2: they want you. Know, in America, I would deal with
Speaker 2: these guys, was like, he liked you, But it's like
Speaker 2: do he like me? Is he playing hard to get this?
Speaker 2: He liked me? It doesn't it? You constantly guessing this
Speaker 2: shit because you know they don't want to come across
Speaker 2: it's thirsty. It is that and other These men ain't
Speaker 2: worried about that, generally speaking. And so once I got
Speaker 2: a greatest sense I understand the overall culture, then I
Speaker 2: understood that he wasn't crazy trying to be possessives. Let
Speaker 2: me know, I'm dating intentionally, and I think that if
Speaker 2: we're all honest with ourselves, don't we really want someone
Speaker 2: to be intentional so that you can make the choice,
Speaker 2: or do you intention to date them? But at least
Speaker 2: bring me intention so that when I bring you my
Speaker 2: attentionuse I know, I show up and I show out,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And that's the problem. We
Speaker 2: choose people who don't show up and show out, so
Speaker 2: I appreciate that I don't ever have to worry about it.
Speaker 1: They gonna show up, so you said, don't. We don't
Speaker 1: choose people who show up and show out for us,
Speaker 1: but yet we keep giving them the goods over and
Speaker 1: over and over again, thinking that, Okay, if I have
Speaker 1: sex with him, he'll want me. If I cook for him,
Speaker 1: and he'll want me if I go to church with him,
Speaker 1: he'll want me if i'm cash appened or her.
Speaker 2: She let me, let me let me correct y'all the
Speaker 2: fuck right there? Okay. If you're paying for pipe, that'
Speaker 2: should businus. I'm not judging, okay, but that's not buying
Speaker 2: a husk. Okay. The minute you spend in those cash
Speaker 2: apps and shit like that. Okay, and as a man
Speaker 2: for him to let you give him that damn money,
Speaker 2: we get off of this city boys, city girl shit,
Speaker 2: all right, we gotta get off of that. Okay. The
Speaker 2: reality is that we have these online gurus. Are you
Speaker 2: telling y'all that a man ain't worth nothing, he ain't
Speaker 2: paying for this, so you need to be getting that
Speaker 2: for them. It goes both ways, and not just towards
Speaker 2: the men. It goes towards the women too, because men
Speaker 2: be doing this to women too. Let's call the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, let's put that off the table. But you're right,
Speaker 2: you know about the fact that we continue to pour
Speaker 2: into people in ways as great as do what they're
Speaker 2: pooring to us. We're not at least equitable in terms
Speaker 2: of how they're pouring into us. And then what ended
Speaker 2: up happening is that we end up becoming emotion We
Speaker 2: are re traumatizing ourselves. We really are. We're retraumatizing ourselves
Speaker 2: these experiences that we're choosing, and then ultimately what we're
Speaker 2: doing is we becoming jaded, and then we end up
Speaker 2: giving off an energy a thing. I demand this. I
Speaker 2: demand that we call ourselves being empowering. I demand this,
Speaker 2: I demand this, I demand this. Know, what you're really
Speaker 2: saying is that I want someone who never treat me
Speaker 2: like the people who allow to traumatizing before. But what
Speaker 2: ends up happening is that you end up creating a
Speaker 2: standard for what you so called demand, what you may date,
Speaker 2: what you believe that you deserve. That you end up
Speaker 2: narrowing the playing field beyond the point of what's even realistic.
Speaker 2: You can't see the humanity and in people because now
Speaker 2: you create these huge standards, not because of what you
Speaker 2: believe you deserve, but as a way to protect yourself
Speaker 2: from ever being hurt in the same way. Again, that's
Speaker 2: all you got to unpack our trauma, because our trauma
Speaker 2: helps us to identify why do we date the way
Speaker 2: we date, why do we believe we need the things
Speaker 2: we need? You'd be surprised, you know, for the folks listening.
Speaker 2: Once you're willing to unpack your trauma, you're going to
Speaker 2: find that some of the things you thought you needed
Speaker 2: you don't need to reflections the trauma. They're protective mechanisms,
Speaker 2: and you'll be choosing partners differently in a more healthy way.
Speaker 1: You know, doing this here work, I can honestly say
Speaker 1: that I love my peace so much that you have
Speaker 1: to be equal to the piece that I got added
Speaker 1: to it, or feel better than the peace that I
Speaker 1: already have. Because if you don't I am Okay, do
Speaker 1: I want marriage one day? Absolutely, But I'm just like.
Speaker 2: You fine, but you.
Speaker 1: Don't feel better than peace to me, or you don't
Speaker 1: add to my peace.
Speaker 2: Ain't nothing worse than coming home to a house is
Speaker 2: not peaceful? That's hell on earth, sitting in the house
Speaker 2: looking at somebody thinking yourself, why am I here? Why
Speaker 2: are you here?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And you know it's real bad where you ain't even
Speaker 2: when you don't even want to argue no more because
Speaker 2: you just thinking, I don't want to kick up no dust,
Speaker 2: because I'm thinking out how to get you out of
Speaker 2: how I'm gonna leave. Okay, and let me say that's
Speaker 2: hell on earth. Okay, living with the enemy.
Speaker 1: When you're in a relation, relationship like that, I would
Speaker 1: be scared to look at your Google history, you know what.
Speaker 1: Let me see if I put some quinine in his
Speaker 1: sweet tea, let me well, I get you're.
Speaker 2: Thinking whatever way out you can get. You're like because
Speaker 2: you're not at peace, y'all.
Speaker 1: By the way, to please please don't take that as serious.
Speaker 2: Please don't. We're joking.
Speaker 1: We're obviously are joking. Be honey, in this climate, worre
Speaker 1: in you about can't say nothing without somebody thinking you're serious.
Speaker 1: But you know have dated someone and you literally are
Speaker 1: sitting there thinking what did I just get myself into?
Speaker 1: How do I tell this person? Yeah, it's a no.
Speaker 1: It's it's an absolute no. So I sent you.
Speaker 2: Well, why do we feel guilty about telling people that
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering that I'm someone I've struggled. I've struggled
Speaker 2: in the past and saying this is not going to
Speaker 2: work for me. We need to break up whatever it
Speaker 2: may be. And I end up spending years more in
Speaker 2: relationships because I didn't want to speak up. Why is
Speaker 2: it that we feel guilty or bad because the thing
Speaker 2: we chose yesterday we no longer chose today. You have
Speaker 2: the right to change your mind. They may have been
Speaker 2: you yesterday based on what they showed you. So then
Speaker 2: let me ask you this. Let's go back to childhood.
Speaker 1: Was mj empowered to make his own decisions?
Speaker 2: No? No, I mean I was. So let me say this.
Speaker 2: My mother was a therapist. She's never retired, and so
Speaker 2: my mother definitely empowered me. So they sent to know
Speaker 2: that I had a voice. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, I think that the bigger challenge for me
Speaker 2: was you know, I was extremely introvert. I still am
Speaker 2: very introverted. I light up for the camera, but I'm
Speaker 2: very very introverted, not a hugely social person. Point that,
Speaker 2: I was also a big people pleaser. Growing up as
Speaker 2: a little gay kid, you know, in the South, you
Speaker 2: learn your protecting mechanism. I wasn't a fighter. I didn't
Speaker 2: have a mouth to be able to go off on people.
Speaker 2: That wasn't me, and so I learned to just be
Speaker 2: very quiet and friendly and always pleasing people, you know.
Speaker 2: And so for me, I did not know how to
Speaker 2: be empowered. What really empowered me with them My own
Speaker 2: experience was once I got older and got into the
Speaker 2: entertainment industry, get me on camera, and then got into business.
Speaker 2: Because what I learned very quickly was it if I
Speaker 2: didn't speak up for me, people were going to take
Speaker 2: advantage of me constantly. They won't try to eat me
Speaker 2: a live and so I had to take I had
Speaker 2: to learn almost fake being in power, like I gotta
Speaker 2: think it so I can make it. But that was
Speaker 2: a journey. I'm almost forty now. I don't think I
Speaker 2: really knew how to effectively speak up for myself until
Speaker 2: probably my early thirties.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so then it's become I guess a
Speaker 1: practice like learning how to say no for the first
Speaker 1: time is so scary to do, but once you do
Speaker 1: it once, especially when I learned how to say no
Speaker 1: and then say that said person figured out a way
Speaker 1: to get what they needed once I said no, it
Speaker 1: makes you be like, oh, it's not so bad after all.
Speaker 1: But you also said something I keep pivoting to just
Speaker 1: so many nugget you drop. But you are a people pleaser.
Speaker 1: You will stay in something that's bad for you. You're
Speaker 1: not pleasing yourself.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. One of the things I say to myself
Speaker 2: now I have to I have to have a talk
Speaker 2: with someone. Earlier, i'd give them some news that they
Speaker 2: weren't very happy to hear. And I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 2: for this. That I did it immediately. What I because
Speaker 2: I thought about doing this about four days ago, and
Speaker 2: I was like, and this was business, you know, but
Speaker 2: still a human being, I care about people's feelings, and
Speaker 2: so I remember what I did. What got me to
Speaker 2: finally do it today was I said to myself, you
Speaker 2: are uncomfortable right now because you refuse to have this conversation,
Speaker 2: and you shouldn't be this person is not meeting your needs.
Speaker 2: You need to have a conversation. So if I have
Speaker 2: to choose between my own uncomfort and your discomfort, it's
Speaker 2: got to be yours because I cannot choose you over me.
Speaker 2: And so that's been a huge thing for me in
Speaker 2: terms of people pleasing, has been asking myself because I
Speaker 2: still I still struggle with it. You know, that's probably
Speaker 2: one of the hardest parts of parenting is we take
Speaker 2: our trauma and our stuff. You get married, you take
Speaker 2: it to your spouse. You have kids, you take it
Speaker 2: to your kids. Let me tell you, don't just shut off. Right.
Speaker 2: You think you won't be able to speak up all
Speaker 2: time because they your kids, Nah, they can still walk
Speaker 2: all over you too, if you're someone who is a
Speaker 2: people pleaser. So anyway, for me in understanding this and
Speaker 2: learning this, I can't tell you that I get it
Speaker 2: right every time. And I can't tell you that I
Speaker 2: don't still have that compulsion to people please. I've been
Speaker 2: doing it for three decades, you know, almost four, right,
Speaker 2: But what I have is the tools to be able
Speaker 2: to check myself so that I can at least make
Speaker 2: an alternative choice, And I think that that's what change
Speaker 2: is all about. Changes, not that you transform and you
Speaker 2: no longer have the compulsional desire to do that thing
Speaker 2: that results from your trauma. Changes when you recognize you
Speaker 2: have a choice, and then you choose to exercise that choice.
Speaker 1: Come on, come on, people pleasing. As I sit here
Speaker 1: and look at reasons why I might have did some
Speaker 1: people please?
Speaker 2: Why did you people please?
Speaker 1: The first thing that comes to mind is fear of abandonment.
Speaker 1: Fear that if you actually state your heart, they'll leave,
Speaker 1: versus adjust, leave, just adjust or give to me what
Speaker 1: I give to you. But people pleasing, fear of abandonment,
Speaker 1: fear of being made Yeah, fear of abandon fear of
Speaker 1: being left out, fear of just maybe being alone. You know,
Speaker 1: for so many yeah, for so many reasons. But I
Speaker 1: think the root for me has been abandonment. Fear of abandonment.
Speaker 2: When you became famous, did that get worse? Did your
Speaker 2: people he these always get worse? Was it to say it.
Speaker 1: Got worse me too? Because of the guilt that you
Speaker 1: feel that you made it, But maybe someone else that
Speaker 1: you felt was more deserving maybe did it, or family members.
Speaker 1: You might have had to adjust how you interact with
Speaker 1: family and friends, and so you feel guilty and so
Speaker 1: before you know it, you're giving so much, your showing
Speaker 1: up at everywhere, even when you want to take a nap,
Speaker 1: people pleasing. It could be something like you say yes,
Speaker 1: but you know you're exhausted, and you feel like, well,
Speaker 1: if I don't go, they'll be mad at me and
Speaker 1: they won't understand. Versus say no, send a big bouquet
Speaker 1: of flowers, or say hey, I can't show up today,
Speaker 1: but can I take you out to dinner this weekend?
Speaker 1: So I'm learning how to do that, And once I
Speaker 1: started doing that, I felt like people understood. Now not
Speaker 1: showing up to some life changing event you may be
Speaker 1: want to have to sacrifice a nap or something because.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but why, but why? What if I
Speaker 2: don't want to go to your baby shower? If I
Speaker 2: don't fuck with you at that level? Why I gotta go?
Speaker 2: Why you gotta go? You don'na fuck with her damn
Speaker 2: bouquet of flowers? Even?
Speaker 1: Why not, amjam let me sit with this bouquet flower?
Speaker 1: Why is it sitting here randomly ready to be grabbed?
Speaker 2: I'm serious. I used to that oh, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 2: can't make it. Let me go send the flower. Then
Speaker 2: let me dig the donation, or let me do the whatever.
Speaker 2: And although financially that may not be a challenge to do,
Speaker 2: for you, it's still the idea that you are doing
Speaker 2: something to compensate for something you don't want to do.
Speaker 2: You don't want to do it. If you fuck with
Speaker 2: them at that level, you want to do it, or
Speaker 2: maybe you do fuck with them at that level. But
Speaker 2: maybe you tired, maybe you need your self care. Why
Speaker 2: is it that we have to pay for our own peace?
Speaker 2: Why is it we have to pay for permission to
Speaker 2: do what we want to do? And that's it's a
Speaker 2: former payment to me now. But let me take you
Speaker 2: out to dinner.
Speaker 1: So for me, the overthinker, the over analyzer, I'm sitting
Speaker 1: here like, well, you knew you was tired. Why didn't
Speaker 1: you take a map earlier? Why didn't you?
Speaker 2: Why didn't you because you feel like it you're watching YouTube.
Speaker 2: I don't know what she was doing. You was living
Speaker 2: your damn like you you hat your toenails. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You do what you want to do with your time.
Speaker 1: So that being said, it's okay to call an audible
Speaker 1: and make a change and say I don't want to go.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like going.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, it's your damn life. If tomorrow was your
Speaker 2: last day and you had the ability to look back
Speaker 2: on today to review what you did, would you want
Speaker 2: your last day to be spent sitting if you're trying
Speaker 2: to adjust your schedule to shape shift around doing what
Speaker 2: other people want you to do with your time, or
Speaker 2: do what you want to do. And that's how I live.
Speaker 2: I live as if if tomorrow's my last day, how
Speaker 2: do I want to spend two death? And that's how
Speaker 2: I think. It's not about being selfish, not about being nasty.
Speaker 2: We had we had to change. This whole idea is
Speaker 2: selfish because we was in doctors, but this belief that
Speaker 2: it's selfish to take care of ourselfs and the people
Speaker 2: who love to perpetuate that belief are people who've been
Speaker 2: traumatized that same bullshit, or people trying to abuse your Yes,
Speaker 2: we gotta stop letting people to manipulate us with that.
Speaker 2: Why can't you come girl, I'll be asked you to
Speaker 2: come up. You don't never come to stuff I want
Speaker 2: to come to. Well, Deborah, that's your own fucking problem. Okay,
Speaker 2: stop asking me. Okay, okay, but what if Deborah.
Speaker 1: Is always coming to your stuff, MJ.
Speaker 2: Then maybe your stuff is data, or maybe she likes
Speaker 2: you better than you like her. You don't owe her ship,
Speaker 2: m J.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna have no friends with that attitude.
Speaker 2: Yes you will. You will find some real ones. You're
Speaker 2: gonna find some reals just like me. Let me say this.
Speaker 2: All my friends are just the same. But I called
Speaker 2: them we still about tonight I come out for like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, I don't. All right, girl back and live.
Speaker 1: They live their best life. You're right.
Speaker 2: We give each other permission to be real. They can
Speaker 2: do that to me. It's no big deal.
Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, You're right. Okay. Dang, I'm getting better, y'all.
Speaker 1: I'm getting better this old heart of mind, I wondered. Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this from a personal experience. I want
Speaker 1: to talk about people pleasers or people that have fear
Speaker 1: of abandonment. Do you think that they attract narcissists?
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that anytime you have a trauma in
Speaker 2: that way, rather the fear of abandonment, if you have
Speaker 2: an anxious attachment style, anything like that the more visible things,
Speaker 2: because abandonment fear of abandoned can show through in the
Speaker 2: ways that we don't always think. I think that narcisses
Speaker 2: are attracted us to people where they can have an advantage.
Speaker 2: They're attracted to people who are emotionally they can have
Speaker 2: upper hand that the core a narcissist usually lacks the
Speaker 2: empathy and compassion to see that they can't take take take,
Speaker 2: take takes, and they continue to take take, take, take, take,
Speaker 2: And so I think that it's not just people with
Speaker 2: abandonment issues who attract narcissists. I think any time that
Speaker 2: you are not fully managing your stuff, you can attract
Speaker 2: a number of folks who have the those kind of issues.
Speaker 2: The cluster be personality disorder issues, you know, narcisism, borderline
Speaker 2: personality disorder, social paths of personality disorders. Those types of
Speaker 2: people are attracted to people that they have a greater
Speaker 2: chance of manipulating control.
Speaker 1: Wow, because that is a word that we've been hearing
Speaker 1: so much, And as I was stating to you before
Speaker 1: we officially started recording, I was like, people also misuse
Speaker 1: the word narcissists, like he's a narcissist and we're like, no,
Speaker 1: he just didn't like.
Speaker 2: You, but he's an asshole. You know, you may you
Speaker 2: just may be that some of the science to look
Speaker 2: for when you're thinking about a narcissist. And you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm not a mental health professional and understand that
Speaker 2: narcissism is a cluster to be personal disorder that people
Speaker 2: are generally they need to be diagnosed by a mental
Speaker 2: health professional before you start throwing that title around. First
Speaker 2: of all, with the narcissists, one of the things that
Speaker 2: you will notice about a narcissist is that they have
Speaker 2: a high sense of needing to feel superior all the time.
Speaker 2: That can and that can sometimes They need to always
Speaker 2: feel like they're the best right. They like in doing that,
Speaker 2: they like to make us feel inferior. They can have
Speaker 2: a sadistic approach things like that. They'll say things shift
Speaker 2: to piss you off. One of the key qualities of
Speaker 2: a narcissists is that they generally lack compassion. They generally
Speaker 2: lack remorse for their actions. For someone to walk around
Speaker 2: and say, I'm toxic, I just do mean right that
Speaker 2: they say the girls and narciss that got's narcissists. No,
Speaker 2: they could be an asshole, because one of the things
Speaker 2: about narciss that you recognize is that unless they've gone
Speaker 2: through deep, deep, deep work, they usually have a very
Speaker 2: hard time with identifying those traits of themselves. They believe
Speaker 2: everyone else is fucked up, you know, and so there
Speaker 2: are traites. I mean, you know, lots of resources online
Speaker 2: that teach about this, but I would say less, focus
Speaker 2: less on the title of what someone is, and let's
Speaker 2: focus more on how they make us feel, because rather
Speaker 2: they're diagnosed mark narcissists, borderline personality, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: Regardless of their title that they have or that you
Speaker 2: may leave they have, that's not really important. What's most
Speaker 2: important is how do you experience this person? And when
Speaker 2: you experience this person, do you come away the majority
Speaker 2: of the time feeling good or bad? Right? It's just
Speaker 2: that as simple. It's like how a kid feels. I
Speaker 2: don't like her, mommy, I don't want to be around her.
Speaker 2: When your inner child says that, listen to it. It's
Speaker 2: not your opportunity now become the therapist to try to diagnose.
Speaker 1: Oooh, ooh, ooh, come on, that was so good and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you gave the disclaimer that this
Speaker 1: is something that does have to be diagnosed through a
Speaker 1: psychiatrist actually who does the diagnosing. While I have you
Speaker 1: for these few more minutes, you got to tell us
Speaker 1: something that you have been working on, I think a
Speaker 1: long time coming. But at the same time, it's perfect
Speaker 1: timing what you've been working on.
Speaker 2: I've been working on my new book, Get the Fuck
Speaker 2: Out of your Own Way. I'm so happy about it.
Speaker 2: This is my first official book, and it's a long
Speaker 2: time coming. My publisher has said they've been reached out
Speaker 2: to me for a while saying please, do please do
Speaker 2: a book, and I kept on saying no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no no, just because I, frankly, I just didn't
Speaker 2: want to do a book. I didn't want to sit
Speaker 2: down and do it. But you know, they put together
Speaker 2: a great team for me, and it has been absolutely
Speaker 2: fabulous this experience. Big shout out to Police Laverne. She
Speaker 2: really came together and really helped me shape this project
Speaker 2: in a really beautiful way, and so I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2: We start pre orders I think next month was that September,
Speaker 2: and I'm happy. I'm really, really really happy about this
Speaker 2: because it's my way of bringing my perspective and teach
Speaker 2: me how to get the fuck out their own way.
Speaker 2: I'm excited that and put it in the hands.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I'm Minama business and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: MJ's reached out to me and asked me, would I
Speaker 1: say some words about his book. I have them, I've
Speaker 1: seen it. I'm excited about it. It's just as exuberant
Speaker 1: and life giving a It's his personality. And you're gonna
Speaker 1: get this to where you will always have the book
Speaker 1: of MJ. Harris. Honey, you better have it sitting along
Speaker 1: with your Bible. Okay. So I'm just saying, I'm just
Speaker 1: saying I'm really really thankful for you. I'm thankful for Yes,
Speaker 1: you are an introvert, but I'm thankful for the times
Speaker 1: that you do get that camera out and you give
Speaker 1: us what I know is divinely put on your heart
Speaker 1: in your own way. How many people tell you, MJ,
Speaker 1: you've helped me get out of this relationship, or you've
Speaker 1: helped me see myself, You've helped me feel worthy about myself.
Speaker 1: Give us a testimony or two about that. I know
Speaker 1: they're there.
Speaker 2: You know that's the most beautiful thing for me is,
Speaker 2: you know, I have one of my good friends who
Speaker 2: lives out here. He's so wonderful because when we're out
Speaker 2: and about and people come up and everything like that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes people, you know, other friends will get aggravated, like damn,
Speaker 2: can't you put on the have or something. But I
Speaker 2: don't want to hide, you know, because they when they
Speaker 2: come up, there're so positive. And one of the things
Speaker 2: he mentioned to me was he said, he says, you know,
Speaker 2: you can tell this you do really good work because
Speaker 2: when people come up to you, they always tell you
Speaker 2: something about how you impacted field life. You know, I
Speaker 2: just gotta have this divorce, and you helped me get
Speaker 2: through this. You know, when my parents died, you helped
Speaker 2: me through that or whatever it may be. And I'll
Speaker 2: tell you this honestly, Michelle, it was really hard for
Speaker 2: me to take that in for a long time. You know,
Speaker 2: my mother used to work with me for a while
Speaker 2: and when the album, people would come up and they
Speaker 2: say you'd help me, help me, and I always say
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you so much, thank you so much,
Speaker 2: and she said, they're telling the truth. Are you taking
Speaker 2: that in? And that was something that I struggled with actually,
Speaker 2: taking it in and owning it for myself because I
Speaker 2: think that my whole thing was I don't know, I
Speaker 2: felt lucky. I felt like, you know that I really
Speaker 2: deserved this. I felt like an imposter syndrome, like, you know,
Speaker 2: is do I really deserve this? You know, I'm just
Speaker 2: doing what comes naturally to me and that other people
Speaker 2: I think do it much better than me, And so
Speaker 2: I had to really be able to it. Took a
Speaker 2: very long time. I've been on camp for fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Took a very long time for me to finally get
Speaker 2: to the place of being able to say, Wow, you've
Speaker 2: been blessed. Still have a platform in people's lives where
Speaker 2: you're able to help them and they tell you it
Speaker 2: in such a beautiful way, and now I'm able to
Speaker 2: fully own it and receive it, and I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: that this is that, this is what I've been able
Speaker 2: to bring to the world so far.
Speaker 1: As you should. You know, when somebody tells you you
Speaker 1: look good today, really say thank you, especially and you
Speaker 1: know you got up and put the effort in, or
Speaker 1: if you know it was a hard day for you
Speaker 1: to even get up out the bed, own own MJ.
Speaker 1: You're not feeling well. I know you know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: you know, so we got a producer on here. Everybody's
Speaker 1: you know, got a head cold. Allergies are wearing people out.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, we still show up. And
Speaker 1: so nothing's wrong with saying, you know what, You're right.
Speaker 1: I did show up today. I look good. God has
Speaker 1: been good. I've got love and happiness. I'm eating good food,
Speaker 1: Praise God. You know what I'm saying. And so MJ,
Speaker 1: we're excited. I'm excited your I'm calling it now. Your
Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling book is going to go through
Speaker 1: the roof best seller on Amazon. It's going to be
Speaker 1: best seller everywhere. So y'all, y'all ain't never heard me
Speaker 1: say the effort. I'm not gonna say it, not that
Speaker 1: I can't, It's not that I'm.
Speaker 2: Never get the fuck out your own way.
Speaker 1: That is the name of his new book. MJ. You
Speaker 1: got to come back when it comes, oh for a
Speaker 1: part three. And I'm so thankful that you know, when
Speaker 1: we have called, you have accepted the invitation. I hope
Speaker 1: you're not people pleasing by saying yes.
Speaker 2: No, it was my honor and my pleasure. Now let
Speaker 2: me say this. I don't do shit I don't want
Speaker 2: to do I say no in a quick minute and
Speaker 2: will be noiced you. So I'm sorry, I don't want
Speaker 2: to do that. You know, when you call, I answer,
Speaker 2: I got a respiratory infection. My nose is running. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm talking this thing, and why not have a tissue
Speaker 2: beside me? But I did this because I love you.
Speaker 2: You have such positive energy and you're so transparent with
Speaker 2: the world about what it is that you've gone through,
Speaker 2: what you where you've come to, where you are going.
Speaker 2: And I just think that there's not enough of that
Speaker 2: in the world. I don't just say that, I don't
Speaker 2: think there's enough of that in the world. People are
Speaker 2: just honest and raw. And then to also you have
Speaker 2: to own the fact that you are a mega celebrity.
Speaker 2: That's just what it comes down to. And when people
Speaker 2: see you on you know, arenas and stadiums and super
Speaker 2: Bowls and all these other things, and then they can
Speaker 2: put you on this pedestal believing that somehow another that
Speaker 2: you don't do the same challenges as them, or that
Speaker 2: the challenges don't hit as harder in some case even harder, right,
Speaker 2: And so the fact that you are so open about
Speaker 2: that gives people hope that if a she deals with it,
Speaker 2: maybe I'm not the only one. Maybe I'm not fucked up,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe I'm just a normal person. And if
Speaker 2: she can get through it and share with the world
Speaker 2: and create a whole platform around this, that to me
Speaker 2: is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: Thank you, MJ. I'm gonna keep it. I'm going to
Speaker 1: embrace it. I'm going to to let this soak it
Speaker 1: all in because I can definitely throw the ball back
Speaker 1: in your court and say, you've been transparent about your
Speaker 1: journey too. I see it. I see it, and I
Speaker 1: see what the people say. So all right, all right, y'all,
Speaker 1: this has been a love fest. We can love on
Speaker 1: each other. We can love on each other. But y'all,
Speaker 1: it's it's time for him to go. And I'm so
Speaker 1: thankful that you were here. We're excited for you to
Speaker 1: come back in the next few months. So I know,
Speaker 1: we get to pre order the book within the next month,
Speaker 1: but when does it come out.
Speaker 2: The pre OrderIn is going to come out at the
Speaker 2: near the tail end of the holiday season. I actually
Speaker 2: just got off a call with the publisher before this is, like,
Speaker 2: we will start the pre orders and so on, because
Speaker 2: we really want your community to make this into a
Speaker 2: best seller.
Speaker 1: So yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, well
Speaker 1: we are going to do that. MJ. It is always
Speaker 1: a joy to have you checking in.
Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thank you for having me right back.
Speaker 1: Okay, y'all too. He said what he said, and that's
Speaker 1: all I'm gonna say. I have nothing more to add
Speaker 1: to it. He said what he said, and he always
Speaker 1: will say what he says, and that's on period, y'all.
Speaker 1: I just love you, guys, and thank y'all so much
Speaker 1: for letting me have fun with y'all, and just I
Speaker 1: hope to continue to create a safe space with all
Speaker 1: the voices that I bring on here. Much love to you.
Speaker 1: Please continue to have an amazing day and amazing week.
Speaker 1: I love you and there's nothing you can do about it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for checking in. Checking In with Michelle Williams
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.